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Welcome to the show, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host. We’re always talking here about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent reminder that this is our one year anniversary month. It was last july that we started the show. This is show number fifty two one per week, minus couple holidays, but this is our fifty second show. I hope you were with me for the fifty first show last week had the ceo as fund-raising mvp mindy dietz and karen pearl, both non-profit chief executives revealed their insights on how to motivate, engage and position your ceo to be a fund-raising m v p then it was the fine art of conversion. My guest was scott barnett, director of web communications for fairfield university, and he urged you not to be afraid of analytics because tools like google analytics can help you prevent. Sorry, help you convert website visitors into online donors and help you engage younger prospects who become donors. Last week’s interviews were from our media sponsorship of the fund-raising day conference in new york city in june. This week, we’re alive, i’m having a conversation with darian rodriguez. Heman first, we’ll talk about his book non-profit management one oh one and the nationwide social media for non-profits conferences that he hosts then. So you want to start a non-profit we welcome our new legal contributors, jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, and they’ll explain the ups and downs of starting a non-profit what are the alternatives to creating a non-profit how do you get five? Oh, one c three status and what you’re getting yourself into if you go ahead and create a non-profit between the two shows between the two segments, it’ll be tony’s take two again, this is our one year anniversary got new regular contributors to with him starting today and in august, we’ll have ah, additional contributor i’ll tell you about the first show is up for a new podcast, siri’s, that i’m hosting for the chronicle of philanthropy. It’s called fund-raising fundamentals. I’ll be up on the chronicle website every month, and i’ll say a little more about that on tony’s take two there. I’ll be interviewing experts each month to help you with your fund-raising and finally on tony’s, take two, it’ll be. You know, i’m doing stand up comedy now and have been for several months. So i’ll be weaving the comedy and this show and the chronicle of philanthropy monthly podcast altogether. I can’t help it. They all blend together and influence each other more on all of that on tony’s, take two. Right now, we take a break, and then i’ll be with with back with darian rodriguez, kayman so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl are said to want to nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Xero hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio, i guess now is darien rodriguez haman he’s calling from san francisco. Darian was executive director of the craigslist foundation from two thousand four to two thousand eight. He helped conceive the non-profit boot camps that the foundation sponsored he’s, the editor of non-profit management one o one, which is published by joe sea bass he’s, also a consultant and co founder of the social media for non-profits conferences throughout the country. And i’m very glad that darrin’s work brings him to the show today. Welcome, darien. Thanks, it’s. A pleasure non-profit management one. Oh one. What does the book add to the many books that are out there for non-profit leaders? Well, i mean, i think the when i looked out there what i start with, all the books that were in the marketplace for kind of fell into one of four categories. And so, you know, you had books that were basically textbooks. They were written by and for active combat. Yes. That book at that was focused on latto. Start in on social enterprise. There’s. Also about a career. Guys, you know how to get into sectors from there. But what didn’t kill him, you know, is that there’s no fish depict some fund-raising management, but what didn’t most back-up when that really hyre spectrum but did so from a very practical kind of practice will put into work. Daria, you don’t have to talk to you for a minute or you want a headset. Funny chance i’m not going out here, big guy. So, yeah, we’ll not only echo, but we don’t have a great we’re sort of getting you in bursts i hear about. Yeah, well, i don’t know if we can help all that. Yeah, why don’t you hang up and call right back? And i’ll do a little tap dance. In the meantime, please. Okay, so darren’s book is non-profit management one o one and it is actually he’s, actually the editor of the book. Because it is thirty three essays written by some pretty popular people in their subject areas. And interestingly, it covers areas that he just touched on. But it goes much further because it gives details of how to it’s not theoretical. Darian. You back with us? Yes. This sounds better. Yeah, thank you. I was just telling the audience there. There. Are thirty three essays in the book, but go ahead, why don’t you finish explaining what it contributes? Why why you felt this was important to write, no problem, and i’m and i’m not sure what you were before, but there’s the echo again anyway. So the point is that yeah, i hear you find and if the echo is bothering you, my suggestion is just take the phone away from your ear while you’re talking, and then when you’re done talking, put the phone back because you won’t hear my insightful questions, of course, certainly. Okay, so what i was going to stay is the book is really non-profit boot camp as a book, when i was executive director, craigslist foundation, i started a program that was very successful about non-profit boot camp, and i think the reason it was so successful is that it really covered the whole spectrum of all the different issues you need to know about in order to run an effective non-profit and it did so with a very practical focus, you know, wasn’t just enough to inspire people it’s about inspiring them action? What you going to do differently tomorrow? That’s going to make you more effective and the essays in the book yeah, the book have great detail there, you know, there’s textbooks that are buying for a day there’s career, guide’s, there’s, howto started non-profit or social enterprise, and then they’re sort of issue specific books on board governance or volunteermatch judgment or individual donor efforts or online fund-raising etcetera. And what didn’t just was something that was both comprehensive and practical, something i respect and that isn’t just kind of theoretical and conceptual, but is actually in geared for implementation, you know, it’s, a field guide for people that are professional change makers on brovey yeah, and i think a field guide or manual really is a very good way to describe because i noticed that all the essays have very practical, implementable steps and you have at the end of every essay there do’s and don’ts and there’s terrific resource section at the end of each chapter, which is the each chapter is an essay, so i i see the difference there as well. So they’re just a couple that i want to focus on, and we have just about a minute and a half before our first break. One of them is your say on non-profit career’s. Taking charge of your non-profit career happens to be chapter four in the book. Um, it points out something very interesting being comment on this. The non-profit sector is so diverse, which is a terrific attribute for it. But that makes career management complex. Darian yeah. So just can you comment on the double edged sword there of the non-profit community, it being wonderfully diverse, but no definitive career path since it is so diverse? Yeah. I mean, i think that there’s, you know, diversity in two areas because there’s lots of different causes represented within the sector. There’s also different lots, lots of organizations we’ve got over a mil and a half non-profits registered in this country alone. And so, you know, yes, that is both a good thing in a bad thing, you know, it does offer tremendous diversity, it offers lots of opportunity and you know anything you can think of his representatives enough offgrid in mental job, but at the same time, you have to be using a array of options other professionally. So i think that bill, the most important thing, kind of key to success at this fight i’m sorry dahna is really about, you know, a combination of two things. Do what you love, what’s your bet. And so really the question is, what are the what’s? The answer, those two questions, and that is and you know that russian life and that’s what we really should spend our time and energy thinking about not only on a nice body basis, but i’m an ongoing basis and the clearest that we have professionals get of. What are the causes that i most care about that make packed what are what kind of organizational environment and culture and for what kind of role want to? I want to be in a wreck, prevent upleaf or focused on development and fundrasing or, you know something on the market fighter program to look in the rear of the ant, get all of those questions, the more you’re able tto sort of, you know, put your desires out, you know, to the folks that you meet and the books that you served. My guest is darien rodriguez haman, and we’re talking about his the book that he edited non-profit management one oh one, we’re gonna take a break now, please stay with us e-giving didn’t think the shooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding cubine you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving no. Dahna good oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s, create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight. Three backs to one to seven to one eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Oppcoll are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com looking to meet mr and mrs wright, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your car relationship as fulfilling as possible? Then please join us, starting monday, may second at ten am for love in the morning with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Please tune in and call as we discuss dating relationship and more. Start your week off with love in the morning with marnie alison on talking alternative dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back, come with darian rodriguez kayman we’re talking about his book non-profit management one oh one and we’re focusing on one of the thirty three essays in the book titled taking charge of your non-profit career out darian the the end of that chapter has networking, do’s and don’ts, but one of the one of the best networking tips i thought came from a mihdhar, the founder of idealist who wrote your forward and he said that he listed seven or ten things that he had learned in the past fifteen years in his forward, and one of them was, too treat people the way you’d like to be treated. I mean, isn’t that great networking advice? Yeah, i mean, i think that that’s a big part of now bombing has built up, you know, not only cecil career, but the organization would idealware bigot about a million people a month going to that website tto learn about all things not-for-profits idealist dot order, but, you know, for me i’ve seen this across several careers and different sectors is did extent a zoho helpful person that is genuinely concerned with the efforts advancing the success of the o z. From the contact it comes back, you know, a million nationally, so for me and, you know, basically any time on meeting with anybody at some point in the conversation, if even if i don’t say that word, i essentially asked the question, how can i help bond? You know, whether that’s just connecting them to re sources or yourself getting infections, being among them, you know, it’s, like books, conferences or what have you, you know, i think that the important thing to remember is that each and every one of the you know, of the non-profit country has the same owner, which is the public it’s, not the border, the executive director bye definite means to be a non-profit is that we’re publicly and our boardmember zehr just ensuring a public interest that’s why they’re trustees. So, you know, we are genuinely all in this together and it’s really crucial that we support each other’s work further that every one of us on i just think that some of the best networking advice that that you can you can find, yeah, i should actually mention that tommy denoting the social media for non-profits he’s going kicking and often it dork yeah, and we’re going to talk shortly. We’re going talk shortly about that about that series of conferences throughout the country and army has been a guest on this show that s a also makes the point of talking about a sustainable career where you’re, you know, you’re with the right organization are always learning and way always hear about sustainability for non-profits but i never thought of a sustainable career. Good? Yeah, i mean, i think so, too things. Well, first of all, i do want to just kind of point out that even though it’s the most romantic cities in court but these are not really tested their chapters because what you’ll see is to read the book there’s, a common chapter format s so i created a structure so that each chapter would yet have an introduction and a conclusion. But most importantly have, you know, the main section focused on critical skills confidences as well as that sidebar, do’s and don’ts that kind of pull out this salient points than us back that you mentioned, and then there’s also a resource review read chapter so it’s not because they’re just sort of, you know wandering as all in different formats on bitten by different experts, they are of the chapters are all contributed by different experts there’s fifty experts in thirty five different after inspections. But anyway, i wanted to make that because i think it’s important for the readability of the use of looking that died the back to your point about professional sustainability, what i would say is that, you know, i think two things because i also do a lot of environmental where you environment murcott duitz and i think first off sustainability has been even the words that we want to think about much maybe dr, right? Like, how many people would be a sustainable relationship, meaning that it can just keep going it’s not enough to just be able to keep the light, be enjoying what you’re doing, and that ultimately is the key to the ability of the key to being able to continue on. And so i think that as him into earlier such a diverse sector there’s so many opportunities that, you know, challenge happy and so you’re not break the work you’re doing, whether it’s that you’re not passionate about the cause or that you don’t like the people you work with role that you’re in, then you really owe it to the cause into the community to get fashion and whether that trying to wreck himself some things with, you know, the organization you’re working with or, you know, identifying and new places to go work and on put your skills to bear at a organization, what do you know if you can really do your best work? Yeah, the the authors make the point of always reflecting on whatever dissatisfaction you might have, you might be feeling and you’re and that’s that’s exactly what you’re talking to just, you know, this introspection and thinking about whether you’re happy and if not, howto latto make that change so that you can be happier. The other chapter i’d like to talk about is is called online peer-to-peer fund-raising i think that social media is something that non-profits struggle with. In fact, we had a poll for listeners to the show, and one of the question was what’s the your non-profits relationship with social media sites like facebook, twitter, youtube linked in and no one said we get it and we’re good at it and then the answers were pretty much between. You know, we see the value but aren’t getting the most out of it, and even a small percentage, you know, we don’t see the value, but i think, importantly, nobody said we understand it, and we’re good at social media. So the chapter is online peer-to-peer fund-raising it’s all about using social networks to engage your donors, to become fundraisers and engaging sort of friends to become donors. Darrien you have a lot of experience in social networks, these requires support right non-profit can’t just put up a facebook page. Well, actually, you know the non-profit can put up a facebook page just like anybody can, but the important thing to remember is when i called the store phenomenon because what you’re you’re better off not launching a facebook presence, they’re launching one and ignoring and letting it go stale. So what you don’t want to do is have a summer intern, and this happens all the time you’ve got, you know, a young volunteer or summer intern or something like that says, hey, i’m going to set up a facebook presents they put up a page for you and they, you know, maybe do one or two updates in and they go back home or they’re done volunteering or whatever the case may be, and the organization has no plan of how it’s going to keep that page fresh and lively. And so therefore all of a sudden, after couple posted just goes stale and it sits there, and it almost reflects more poorly on the organization and if you wouldn’t have launched a presence there to begin with. So the key is that, although yes, anyone can set up a paige if you’re going to send a social media presence on twitter, facebook, youtube or else where you want to make sure that you have a plan in place with resource, is that air dependable toe actually continue to put content up there, and i should tell listeners we are live today in the if you want to call and talk to darian, you can call eight seven seven four daito for one two oh eight, seven, seven for a tow for one to zero during they talk about leveraging pompel the personal social networks and there’s something very interesting about is a quote from a an executive director who thinks of his employee’s personal use of of social networks in the workplace as the twenty first century cigarette break. What do you think of that? I love that i love that comment by nicki noble who’s, one of the two office of that chapter uh, she actually used to work at the salvation army. What about e-giving? So it wasn’t a small, you know, organization with a lot of flexibility that was hurt looking policies in a very large, well established organization. And i think, you know, this is kind of vindictive of social media in general, which is, you know, one of the concerns a lot of organizations have is lovely. What if it gets out of control what people say things we don’t want them to say, etcetera and it’s kind of the better the devil, you know, than the one you don’t type thing where, you know, control is an illusion to begin with only more so now that we live in this world of social media and so you know, people are going to be doing this anyway, the idea is instead of trying to bend folks from doing stuff they want to dio, how can you rent us that and turn it into an asset for the organization? So whether that’s creating guidelines so that they have a sense of what’s appropriate and what’s not to be posting, you know, helping seat topics, etcetera on then actually encouraging them to, you know, take a couple minutes out of their daito put up, you know, a tweet on twitter or to put a facebook, etcetera, and that can actually be a good thing, and i think that what a lot of folks don’t realize is that you know, people don’t know how many people have logged into facebook in the last month, and the answer is about seven hundred million, so that makes facebook the third largest country on the planet, and you don’t have to have a presence there, but you can’t ignore it. You can’t ignore social media and the fundamental paradigm shift that represents to this bottom ofthe world. So how can you embrace that it with radical transparency and really get ahead of the curve? The authors of chapter twenty two make it explicit that the quid pro quo in that office was that the organization would be lenient with their employees, use of social media as well. A cz long as the employees were tweeting, posting facebooking about the organizations work to their own personal networks that there was a great exchange hyre we have just a couple minutes left, so let me just remind listeners that darrin’s book is non-profit management one o one, and you’ll find that at non-profits one o one dot or ge darian also is founder of the social media for non-profits conferences these aeryn seven different cities throughout the country this year. Darian what? What is sort of asked the same question asked about your book, what is this unconference siri’s contributing to the many conferences that are already out there for? Non-profits so then i mean, i think i like seeing you see, through all of my birth, the focus is on crack tips and tools, and so what you could clear, you know, there’s three chapters in the book focused on social media one my best cantor was amazing, the we talked that one from nikki noble and sean sullivan a peer-to-peer giving and then the folks it for good contributed the online fund-raising chapter and so, you know, even though there were three chapters out of thirty, thirty five submissions that that focused on media, which is quite a lot given, you know, the the significance of the issue, what became fear is now is that people were really creating more information about this topic and kind of like fund-raising where the thing people know they need and so we got a lot of books asking us to put on educational programming around social media and in particular, strategies fundrasing marketing and advocacy on so what we did is we leveraged a lot of the network i had for my work to craigslist foundation with the non-profit boot camps and some of the author’s for the book, actually, and we got folks like that cancer and geico sake and ami dar and the folks of charity water and a lot of the leaders in the social media field, and i wouldn’t call them experts because, you know, the field is changing so quickly that if anybody pretends to be an expert, you know, they’re lying or they have a big ego because it’s, you know, it’s, impossible to be an expert world students in world practitioner so how can we share our lessons learned with our fellow non-profit leaders so that they could be more effective in this funnel and landscape which maximizing their online presence so as you mentioned, were doing nine events across seven cities? Can francisco, los angeles, seattle, chicago, new york and washington d c in atlanta and we’re heading to new york next thursday on august fourth, and then from there to los angeles on august twenty seconds on, folks could learn more social media for non-profits dartboard, so social media and number four non-profits dot org’s and you’ve. You’ve hosted two so far in san francisco and washington daring we have just about a minute left before we have to go. How did those two go? They were gonna pompel they were both totally sold down, folks absolutely loved them. We had ninety plus an approval ratings on again this focus, i’m not just inspiring people, but inspiring them to action and equipping and more effective and efficient after work they’re already trying to do has been really successful, so we’re on track new york next week, and we’re very excited about how the, how the serious has been resonating with non-profit all right, i wish you luck with it, and especially on the new york city one on august fourth, again, to remind you that there’s more information at social media, the number four non-profits dot org’s darien rodriguez heman is the editor of non-profit management, one o one and founder of these social media for non-profits conferences darien, thanks very much for being a guest. Thank you for having me been a pleasure. Thank you. We’re going to take a break, and when we return, it’ll be tony’s. Take two and then welcoming our new experts in law, gene takagi and emily chan. After that, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com buy-in are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com in-kind welcome back to the show, as i said earlier, this is our one year anniversary month, this is show number fifty two and i want to send a special thank you to people who have been listening who are listening, whether you’re listening live or you’re listening to the podcast from itunes very grateful i’m very grateful to all the listeners we have on this show at this one year anniversary month and also to the four hundred thirty plus people who are facebook fans and they get our stream on facebook. Thankyou. So to sort of celebrate, we have new regular contributors toe ad tio scott, keg alors monthly technology for non-profits segments and jean takagi and emily chan is going to be joining me very shortly, and then we also are going to be welcoming maria simple in august she’s the prospect find er she’s, a popular speaker and consultant, and she’ll have regular prospect research advice for your non-profit her first show is august twelfth. I started last week a monthly podcast interview show for the chronicle of philanthropy. It’s called fund-raising fundamentals we kicked off with gayle perry gale has been a guest on this show. She’s, the author of fired-up fund-raising turned board passion into action. I think she was an excellent first choice, teo inaugurate that fund-raising fundamentals monthly show for the chronicle of philanthropy and details for listening and subscribing to that show are on my blogged, which is m p g a devi dot com and i’ve been doing stand up comedy, and i’m having trouble keeping that separate from my work on this show and the fund-raising fundamentals for the chronicle and my speaking and keynoting. So if you notice something a little different, it’s it’s probably my stand up comedy influencing things, so keep listening because there’s change is coming. That’s tony’s take two for friday, july twenty ninth, and i’m really pleased now to welcome jean takagi and emily chan as our new regular legal contributors, jean is a principle of neo ennio, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits to popular non-profit law block, which you’ll find at non-profit law blawg dot com emily chan is an attorney at the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. They’re based in san francisco, and she is a principal contributor to the non-profit law block, jean and emily big. Welcome to the show. Three. Thank you so much, tony. We’re thrilled to be a part of non-profit radio. It’s called very glad to have you. So i think we’re starting with a fit topic. So you want to start a non-profit. I know your office gets calls on this subject, people who are passionate about a cause and want to do something. I want to start a non-profit and what’s the first advice that you give them in thinking about that. This is family, i think, a threshold questions that we do ask for when they call it really why? Non-profit so there are individual, better, very past about fun, but sometimes that translates into also happy that would be too private evidence as a few of the public in addition to that it’s important to think about the plan who’s going to be on the board, what is the business going to look like? And funding as well? The costs involved with the initial startup and the ongoing operations? We also like to find out what’s going on with the mission and the core activities and anticipating any kind of challenges, like a conflict of interest compensation issues and thinking about who else is going to be involved in helping to run this organization. So emily that’s a ton of stuff to be thinking about, and in your experience, do you find these air, these air, new things that people haven’t have not thought through? Is that? Is that the case? Usually i think so in many cases, because sometimes that passin for the cause overtakes the practical considerations. Additionally, i think sometimes are unaware how much the law and it’s pettus upon these problems, for example, recently with the irs, there was this issue of a list of two hundred and seventy five thousand organizations have had their past six status revoked for failing to file an annual returns with three years straight. This was a change in the law that happened in two thousand six, and many small organizations simply didn’t know about it. So kind of thinking in advance. You know what air the practical things we need to do and be aware of? What are the kind of mechanical steps involved? Well, the challenges we’re going to face, sometimes things that take a backseat to that initial passion and excitement about having starting in non-profits yeah, they were definitely ongoing compliance requirements and your example, is a great one of almost three hundred thousand non-profits that weren’t complying with filing requirements with the irs, jean, what about some alternatives? There are other things that might achieve the same objective that the person has but would be a lot less onerous for them. Absolutely, tony think one of the things one of the messages that emily brought forward was that good intentions aren’t enough there’s a lot. Of administration and fund-raising involved in starting your your own non-profits i’m sure all the listeners know the alternatives that they might want to think about first is working with an existing non-profit organization, there are nearly two million non-profits out there even after the nearly three hundred thousand that were revoked with tax income status, and there are a lot of great non-profits out there doing great work and just simply to duplicate their work, i may not be the most effective and efficient way to use charitable assets, so working with existing organizations is one way another is called fiscal sponsorship, which is similar to working with another organization, but it allows you to become a project of theirs with a right to spin off. Should you later decide to form your own five o one the three on dh that’s a great way to incubate a new non-profit project see if it works, see if he can raise funds they’re going to take care of you administrated been back office ends on dh then should you become a viable ongoing concerned, then you khun later spin off and you’ve got all the benefit of learning from that. Physical sponsorship. Arrange jean notice. Ah, jean quickly defined fiscal sponsorship because i wanted to keep himself out of jargon jail. So, congratulations. You. No, no, no sentence in jargon jail, at least not for the phrase fiscal sponsorship. We’ll see what comes up. But what types of organizations would a person approach to look for a fiscal sponsor? There’s a community foundations that offer physical sponsorship, so that might be the first place to look. But there’s, also a great website called the fiscal sponsorship directory and that’s, a national directory of fiscal sponsors all over the country, and you can choose your state location to see who’s offering physical sponsorship in your area. Another great thing to look at is the national network of physical sponsors website. They provide guidelines as to what would be on appropriate form were effective form a physical sponsorship, because while there many ways to do it right, there are also many, many ways to do it wrong. Okay, excellent resource is thank you, thank you for that gene. We had a couple of poll questions for the show, and one of them was for those thinking of starting a non-profit are you aware of the alternatives that can help you reach the same goals? And no one said yes, but i want to start my own non-profit hyre a few people said yes, and i’m considering them. Most people said no, i’m not aware of the alternative, so i think this is very worthwhile discussion that was yeah, two thirds no. Sorry, about eighty five percent of people said no, not aware of the alternatives and the alternatives gene could be just as easy as giving right giving to an organization absolutely right, buddy that’s a great point that he simply wanted to contribute at your funds and volunteering another organization that may be the best thing to do instead of farming your own non-profit and having all of the administrative and filing obligations that go along with that. But of course we’re talking about ego to write. If you don’t have your own organization and you become sponsored by another, maybe a community foundation, then you have to sort of play by their rules and for some people, maybe that just doesn’t work. You get sort of ego lorts issues at all in the in these conversations, absolutely, and emily may want to jump in, but definitely there a lot of people who want to form non-profits that really have good intentions about the public, but almost as important as those good intentions is their own intentions of creating a job for themselves or creating opportunities for their family, or maybe creating opportunities for related business? No, andi okay, so we’re talking about jobs for themselves and their families. Now. Now we get into those things emily talked about, like conflicts of interest and excessive compensation rules. What about the donor advised fund has a way of as another one of the alternatives as a way of giving to a charity that does work very similar to what you want to do. How does it donor-centric for that? They would really like emily. Emily, could you speak a little louder, please? Yeah. It’s much, but yeah. Please. That’s better. Thanks. So, what donorsearch vice fund that the individual would i talked to? Was sponsoring organizations such as the public charity or a private foundation on dh set up this fund that is going to be designated by their own name and they have advisory privileges so they can advise the organization how they would like to see those funds distributed. It would be the organization, depression, how they ultimately do that. Generally, this relationship works well, because organizations aren’t goingto have individuals. These donors advice sons if they don’t take those at recommendations and advisory privileges with some weight. Okay, so, again, there’s a little ego issue there because the charity gets the final word. But in most cases, charity is wants to work with the donor, right? Right. And the donor gets to have a little bit of their egos stroked as well, because they feel like they have more say and input after what happened to these funds as opposed tio, you’re normal donations, that organization can decide where they put it within their programs and in furthering their exempt labbate and gina want to go back to something that you said just in a minute we have before a break, working with an existing charity. I mean, you might be able to just achieve what you’d like to do by volunteering. No, absolutely, if you if you have a passion about the mission, you could just volunteer for the organization. If you have a leadership goal in mind, you may be able to offer to that organization that you can raise some funds and bring it into launch a program within that organization, and they may be very happy to let you do that. If you’ve got a little bit of a working relationship with them, we’re going to take a break now with jean takagi and emily chan when we returned. You know, it’s? Not that we’re tryingto talk you out of starting a nonprofit, but jean and emily just want you to be fully informed. So when we return, we’ll talk about what the process of creating a non-profit is all about. So please stay with us. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting thinking thing. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving things. Good. Looking to meet mr and mrs wright, but still haven’t found the one i want to make your car relationship as fulfilling as possible. Then please join us, starting monday, may second at ten am for love in the morning with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Please tune in and call as we discuss dating relationship and more. Start your week off with love in the morning with marnie alison on talking alternative dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com talking. Bonem lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Yeah, welcome back on with jean takagi and emily chan, both of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. So, after that last segment now, hopefully, if we issued the same poll, are you aware of alternatives that can help you reach the same goal as your desire to create a non-profit? Hopefully, some of you would now say, yes, i am aware, emily, what about the process for starting a non-profit somebody decides the alternatives don’t really suit them. They do want to go ahead despite all your counseling, what is the first step to creating a non-profit? Emily, i won’t have to be in there. Increase on. Emily, can i ask you to please remember to speak? Speak a little louder. Sorry. I’m getting a little bit of an echo on buy-in trying. Teo pulled the head that strategically here? Yeah, yeah, we hear you. Ok. Ok, great. So there are quite a few mechanical steps involved. And this is assuming that the individual has already thought about those important discussion points that we raised in the beginning. So these kind of steps can include taking out the name of the corporation, filing the articles. Of incorporation if it’s incorporating the state obtaining a federal employer identification numbers, then you’ll want to appoint the board of directors. Drop the by-laws important policies, such a conflict of interest policy. I have your first board meeting to adopt those government documents, then you may need to file with state, especially if this is a public charity for your trip napor stations file any other state filings, like a statement of information, then we’re going to move over now the federal level of applying for tax exemption and in california after that, you can attach your determination letter from the irs if you obtain it and file for your state tax exemption, so this generally can be described in ten steps just did. But, you know, there’s a lot of thinking that goes along the way and it’s a process that you don’t really want to start unless you’ve thought it through because you may get your tax exempt application and realize, oh, no, our mission doesn’t really fit with the exempt purpose that we’re applying for. So they are mechanical steps, but they still need to be thought about as you go through them. Okay, so that’s a ton of stuff, let’s, let’s, break it down a bit. So there were state requirements, and there were also some federal requirements. So starting with the state that i mean, you have tio incorporate in a state, right you’re you’re you’re not-for-profits corporation offgrid yes, and so there’s everything that goes along with being a corporation, those things that you mentioned, you have to appoint the board, et cetera back-up that’s all important in in order to avoid things like potential personal liability of the members if they operate is an unincorporated association, which is a possibility on dh, usually a practical possibility if it’s a very small non-profit going to operate for a limited period of time for most non-profits that tony, i think it’s important to think about inc if they’re going to be an ongoing okay, let’s, you’re treading very close to jog in jail with unincorporated association. What does that mean? It basically means you’re running as a group without filing any articles of incorporation with the secretary of state of your state. So what? What that usually means is just like in the for-profit world, tony, if you start a business and you don’t incorporate their operating is a sole proprietor or possibly the partnership trying to avoid jargon jail again, but it’s running without the formal legal entity around it to protect you from personal liability of the members and of the director’s. Yeah, and that’s and that’s. Really? Your concern is that there is the potential for personal liability if something goes wrong our what kinds of things could somebody end up being personally liable for if they’re if they’re not incorporated and they’re working as a association? Sure, what went one of the big things that you could be a lot before you hold an event and somebody gets hurt? It’s your event there is no formal entity to do like a corporation they may just decide to do. All of the members are all of the directors of that unincorporated association. In many states, they’re not protected against those lawsuits and they’ll have to defend them with their their own personal funds. Emily let’s, let’s, go back now. So we talk about the state requirements, you know, incorporating and everything that goes along with inc like you mentioned. But then there’s there’s an irs requirement to get that tax exempt. Status that five o one c three on dh we pulled the listeners and about half we’re not aware a little more than half we’re not aware of how to get five o one c three status. So first emily, why don’t you tell us what that is? Why it’s important? A five one seat status refers to dissection in the internal revenue code that gives the tax exemption for organizations public charities in order to get that discriminate. Then the organizations to file was called a form ten twenty three on dh this can be quite scary for individuals to look at it it’s quite long and asked for a lot of information is going to ask for a financial projections, the contemplated activities of the organisation, any kind of relationship that would trigger these conflict of interest issues there, you know, it’s, excessive compensation issues um, and then just general information about the organization wants an organization submits that ten, twenty three applications, the irs can take quite a while to get a determination back. It may be about three to four months assuming that the irs does not have additional questions sometimes if the application doesn’t really answer the questions fully or seems to raise some concerns that show that maybe this organization doesn’t really fit with five, twenty three, they may come back with more questions, and then you’re going to end up in the back and forth for her, who knows how long until they give you a determination of either obtaining tax exempt status or being rejected. And one of the big advantages to getting that recognition is that donors to your organization will earn a charitable income tax deduction when they give to your organization and they and they won’t before you have that status, right? Can you repeat that? Just that one of the big advantages of getting that five o one c three statuses donors earn a charitable income tax deduction? No, and they don’t have that if you’re not five o one c three recognized, right? Yeah. And, you know, a big area of your expertise, you know, that’s important organizations to realize, too in that pending time, val, the application has been filed, but they haven’t yet heard from the irs that they don’t actually have five o one c three status, even though if you file it within twenty seven months of being formed. It will go back to your formation, but until you know you can’t go out there and say, i’m a five, twenty three organization because you really don’t know yet. Excellent, we have to leave it there. Jean takagi is principal of neo, the non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco, and he edits that very popular blawg non-profit law blogger and emily chan is an attorney. Neo-sage she’s, principal contributor to the law block. Emily jean. Welcome to the show. Look forward, having you back next month, thanks so much for being on. Next week, it’s wild woman and fund-raising consultant mazarene treyz she joins me from texas to talk about her book, the wild woman’s guide to fund-raising i think we’re gonna have some fun with that. You can keep up with what’s coming up mazarene and everybody after her. By signing up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page, you go to facebook and then the name of this show, and while you’re there, click like become fan of the show, get our stream teo of information from facebook. You can always listen from itunes and subscribe at itunes so that you can listen anytime on your computer or your tablet or your smartphone. Our itunes page you’ll find at non-profit radio dot net. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting is sam liebowitz, and our social media is by the expert regina walton of organic social media. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. 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