Tony’s guests this week:
Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving, with professors Paul Schervish from Boston College and Doug White from Columbia University.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
Sherryl Nufer, founding partner of Pareto Consulting.
Also, Heather Carpenter, co-author of the book “The Talent Development Platform” and associate professor at Grand Valley State University.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
David Campbell, associate professor of public administration and department chair at Binghamton University.
Also, Cristine Cronin, president of NYCharities.org.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
Dave Dalessandro, associate vice chancellor for university development at the University of Pittsburgh, and Liz Cooper, senior executive director for university development at the University.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving.
Also professors Doug White from Columbia University and Paul Schervish from Boston College.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
Marcia Stepanek, founding editor-in-chief of “Contribute Magazine” and new media advisor to the New York University Heyman Center for Philanthropy.
Amy Sample Ward, membership director of Nonprofit Technology Network.
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio it’s that time again. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i am your aptly named host. I very much hope that you were with me last week. Yes, i do, because last week was lead and matching gifts in your campaign to start professor john list from the university of chicago, chairs the economics department and founded the science of philanthropy initiative. There no longer must fundraisers rely on tradition and conventional wisdom in campaign planning because he shared a rigorous science to guide you around lead and matching gif ts also many matching corporate gif ts chuck longfield, chief scientist at blackbaud had lots of simple ways to increase your matching gif ts from corporations did you know that volunteer hours are also dollar matched by many? We started with sector benchmarking, and we went from there, and my interview with chuck longfield was recorded at blackboards bebe con conference last october this week, some raise money while some raise hell. I’m talking about women in philanthropy, with marshals to panic. She was founding editor in chief of contribute magazine and is the new media adviser to the new york university heimans center for philanthropy we’ll talk about limbong coleman leadership roles, traditional giving and how women are organizing themselves also, pinterest and slideshare amy sample ward returns she’s, our social media contributor and membership director of non-profit technology network and ten she shares how small and midsize non-profits can reap definite value from these lesser known social sites between the guests on tony’s take two, my podcaster on top i’ll tell you what i’m talking about, and i will thank you, my pleasure now, to welcome marshes to panic. She is new media advisor to the n u heimans center for philanthropy, and she also curates its annual speaker siri’s philanthropy three point oh, which explores disruptive innovation in the social good sector. It sounds like some organized anarchy. Anarchy pointed in the right direction. She teaches social media strategy. Yes, it may very well be totally okay. We’ll get teo talk about anarchy. I’m still trying to introduce you. Hold on there, marshal. She teaches social media strategy. You have a very lengthy bio. I was to get through this a cz well, a social enterprise. New media and cause video in the masters program at new york university she was, as i mentioned, founding editor in chief of contribute magazine, her upcoming book swarms. The rise of the digital antiestablishment published by little brown is due out later this year. And it’s actually because of that book that she couldn’t be in the studio because she’s interviewing someone for her book swarms very pleased to welcome marshes to panic. How are you? Thanks so much, tony. I’m just really delighted. Honored to be on yourself. Oh, it’s, my pleasure to have you. Thank you, marcia. Honored not too many people say that. Thank you. I hope you feel that way by the end you believe i’m sure you will. You believe that women are reshaping philanthropy? How is that what’s happening? Generally, you know, i didn’t use teo buy into claims that women somehow we’re you know, very different behaviorally and men in terms of their capacity for compassion and their willingness and generosity. But there’s some new research out and it’s very much triggered buy-in just in the economy and structural changes in the workplace that have given women a little more income over the last ten, twenty years, and since nine eleven, we’re we’re starting to see some measurable differences in the way women spend money in terms of the charitable contributions that they make, so that there are some differences that are starting to emerge here. There’s certainly other differences to in-kind of what those new income numbers are spawning in the non-profit industry, but armored and okay, and we’ll have time to talk about those, so you feel this is mostly economically driven? I think a lot of it is economically driven in terms of just the numbers with regard to the money uh given and how that those contributions different, for example, in the highest e-giving levels of people who give generally men and women, uh, baby boomer aged women are more likely to give them their male counterparts in all giving levels three percent or more, or they’re coming down to charity among people who do that. Male baby boomers and older, single headed households are nearly two times it’s, likely than men to give to charity. So that’s that says an age when most women are saving and have significant savings and disposable income and that’s even happening even as a result of women not getting paid is most statistically on the average than men. So it’s pretty significant. Okay, but there’s also interesting developments around organizing and advocacy. Yeah, very much so because of some of these economic trends, but also as a factor of globalization and particularly social media, technology and internet technology in general, we’re seeing some behavioral changes. First of all, it could be a simple as ah ah lot more charities targeting their solicitation campaigns more directly. Tau women. I know a lot of your listeners. Now, united way has now one hundred thirty seven women’s leadership councils that have raised something like nine hundred eighty five million dollars just over the left twelve years creating marshal those those leadership councils are our volunteers. They’re volunteermatch women supporters, yes, and doner groups. So what the united way has done? Uh, kind of piggybacking the general trend and women’s income and changing numbers and how much they’re spending on charity decided to tap into that trend and organize some of these councils. Teo, do more engagement around women’s not only volunteerism, but something like fund-raising as well and what’s. Interesting about that is, uh, this so called tiffany circle, which is an all female. Network created by the red cross, for example, another organization, uh hey has been started not just by the transport by social media networks that have popped up around some of these activities, so a lot of places they’re using a combination of social media and these economic trance really bolster their fundrasing activities, and we’re gonna have a chance to talk a little later on about women organizing themselves, not needing umbrella organization to do it. But, you know, around some of the controversies, like what happened to komen and rush limbaugh’s comments, and so we’ll get a chance talk about women organizing themselves, as i said, not even needing that kneading the big organization, but just coming together on the social sites let’s talk about some of the social change and social enterprises that you’re seeing women engaged in. Yeah, they’re concurrent with these other changes on certainly partly a factor of economic wealth. Growth among women is that a lot of women, particularly on wall street and other very in the financial services field, are really being a critical force behind the creation of pretty much a majority of social enterprises that are out there. The skull. Forum for, uh, global entrepreneurship has done on international study on this and seeing that at least half it’s not up to as high as seventy percent, and some regions of the new enterprises that have been started have been done by women, women who have earned independently of their thousands um uh, who are seeing that the needs community isn’t as fully developed as it ought to be around new issues of concern to these cohorts, such as women’s, self esteem, women and girls, self esteem, women, education issues. Now, these air getting much more focused thanks to a lot of the social enterprises on march for-profit businesses for good, if you will, that coming online. Also seeing a lot of female boomer women burned, creating films, getting into the social good film space and making some very interesting documentaries that are here about women helping women and trying to move the needle a little bit on education and their film initiatives that are also being used to raise a lot of money for certain non-profits abigail disney surely johnson, some of the big entrepreneurs are involved in these things on there, really successful in terms of measuring impact. Are there? Are there specific documentary titles? You khun you convention for us? Yes. Uh, shirley johnson made something about kicking the ball, which is about women’s basketball group. We’ve got abigail disney was working in liberia. Um, we’ve got some recent documentaries that are are being funded by again the women run fledgling fund, which is a foundation, and it’s about women and girls in the slums of calcutta being turned into activists and it’s a very compelling story. Uh uh, all sorts of new films i’m attending here to see for the first time i’m in washington, d c today as well, and i’m interviewing for the book as well as screaming some films that american university conference on social media that matters and this is focusing, i’m still making efforts. So again, you couldn’t you couldn’t be in the studio because you’re in washington, d c watching a movie that’s what you’re saying, i see a film, they have probably hard working the minute you’re seeing argo and lincoln, i’ll bet that’s why you’re in washington? Because they’re not playing in new york anymore, okay, we have just a minute before a break, so i don’t want to really get into anything brand new, too deep. But, of course, you’ll still be with me after the break. When and i want to make sure that what listeners understand, we talked about social enterprise, we’re talking about often cos right, that air, social, socially oriented, social good business is sort of. We’re talking about socially, social good enterprises that have been begun with the primary purpose now so much of raising money for stakeholders, but for raising the bar on social impact wielding an impact that’s measured first of those companies over organized to be accountable to those kinds of and our wii just very briefly before break, we necessarily talking about corporations or these could be not-for-profits also, these could be not-for-profits for-profit non-profit hybrid organizations and then for-profit organizations, but it’s the way that they’re organized on around what they promise to deliver, i understand what their outcomes are, not not necessarily one hundred percent profit, if there, if their profit mathos lately, okay, we’re going to take a break and when we return, of course, after this marchenese to panic stays with us, and i hope that you do, too, talking alternative radio twenty four hours. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? 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If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I have to send live listener love. Now is the time let’s start anyway. Taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, changsha, china. Shanxi, china, hi bay, china. Beijing, china knee. How going out to china and taiwan, fork. Wacha, japan. Konnichiwa, and new bern, north carolina. What’s going on there. More live listener loved to come their arm or live listeners out there. Marcia yeah, let’s, let’s, talk a little about the a new organisation called the girl effect they have on there on the opening page of their website that what they say exactly, that women are the most powerful force for change on the planet. You what do you think about that? No, i got this. Let me say that hyperbole is shared by by because i was wondering how about even like, like men, maybe i don’t know they’re not a good food what’s interesting about the girl effect, though, is kind of the structure behind it, and we were just talking a moment ago about social enterprise and so forth. What the girl fact represents is is a really progressive and very successful partnership. Example of great collaboration in the do gooder space between the noble foundation, which is run by the bucket children warren buffett’s, kids corporation, nike and it’s ah it’s foundation arm and ah partnership with hundreds of non-profits that have it’s part of their mission statement helping women and girls to achieve change, whether it’s in the education space of the art stays or healthcare. It’s a partnership where ah, a very good shorts film was funded, its animation, but it basically finally connects. The dots taking it from hyperbole to show why funding women and girls projects actually affects everyone ah, and affects everyone in a very local way. And so it’s in a very effective messaging tool that kind of breaks through the the problems that a lot of these issues had had in the past, where it sounds awfully one sided, the girl fact does a wonderful job of making this ah, great messaging, peace around thie economic impact on everyone of the lack of educating women and girls, and some of the status around the world. Dahna uh, the lowly status love women hold around the world. So it’s it’s a great burger, and what it does is it kind of lends this little short film to a lot of organizations that couldn’t otherwise afford to make it and lets them put on their websites and interface that helps them to raise micro cash, you know, ten dollars, twenty dollars, right after people to do the film online, they’ve done ability, teo, donate to some of the causes that have been vetted. And though it’s just a wonderful campaign that is now finally being copied in other parts of the sector so we hope to see more of that kind of collaboration in the future. In fact, we’re seeing a lot of micro giving among women organizing themselves around social enterprise. Yes, we are a aa lot of this thie evolution of social networks, social media still relatively, very new, but as people get together and now they found each other online and now they exchange, you know, kind of information about the trivia are the important bits of their lives. Now, the next evolution is the first getting people together to make change or around certain issues folks i care about and what we’re starting to see is on what we saw a lot of last year were the social network, some of them that are very strong, many of them led by women being able to make a difference, either in defense of, uh, an action taken by an organization or to bring up some concerns that hadn’t been brought up otherwise and holding some of these traditional non-profit organizations accountable. And, of course, the the leading edge that was the komen foundation controversy where coming foundation had decided to be fund-raising goods breast cancer testing on dh without telling a lot of its membership, and when it finally freaked out, a lot of folks got online a lot of women and started protesting thiss was an example of women organizing themselves through the social networks and very rapidly yes, absolutely, and it was a very successful protest, and it wasn’t so much the significance here isn’t so much whether you believe that that decision was the right or wrong one it was looking, and there are social networks out there holding traditional organizations and non-profits accountable for their actions and ways that has never been before. And the rapid response of some of these networks to some of these decisions has really encouraged a lot of organizations to start really getting serious about engaging your supporters and their networks in new ways so that everybody does feel that their part of the decision making process and there is a new level of accountability achieved not only holding organizations accountable but individuals for there flippant and ah antagonistic, i’d say, remarks rush limbaugh, when he accused you really accuse nobody eats cited a law student was a prostitute because she wanted funding for birth control to be included. In health care and there was a huge backlash. Yeah, there was an internet firestorm over that in just three days. That firestorm was ableto porcelain about to apologize, not once but twice to the woman he had called a flat was the one of the quotes, okay? Ah, and he lost nearly one hundred advertisers right in that in that, uh napor so we’ve seen that these swarms, if you will, of the social networks that have been highly developed and that have a riel sustainability to them, are able to work very quickly when they’re organized. One of my colleagues, a friend of emmett has called these accountability networks actually because they’re social networks and they are always there, but they can get into action very quickly. Uh, if one of them are influential, members of these networks decides to call them into action. So it’s somethingto watch it’s a phenomenon now, but it’s becoming replicable, and we’re seeing a lot of this kind of action over. Yeah, and so this is what you’re calling swarms of women in this case and it’s not women, are not the only ones active actively engaging but that’s that’s the third today, but one of those air swarms saw another one very well done stop sopa campaign, but to delay a vote by the u s congress that would diminish him internet freedom, at least for now. And, uh, it’s, really a new form of activism that is used social media to coordinate swift action around the specific goal. And it’s it’s it’s significant because it’s, uh, much more to do with the ability of new players and the advocacy sector toe work collectively and successfully kind of outside the non-profit sectors long established structures fired-up alternative goals. So it’s it’s something that all organizations want to start infusing more with their supporters in new ways but also so constructively trying to really be able to prove that they’re having an immeasurable impact. A lot of donors now are saying, what have you done for us? We’re the cause lately, and a lot of organizations are now using the social media tools to measure impact, or at least to get a more specific numerical handle on the work that they are doing so that they are able to not only convince people of their value, but to be able teo create partnerships on new levels to achieve more social impact over time marchenese to panic is the new media advisor to the n u heimans center for philanthropy, and her upcoming book is will be swarms. The rise of the digital anti establishment, and you can follow marcia on twitter. She is at claw cause pardon me at cause global ah, marcia let’s, let’s focus a little more on the on the actual, more traditional e-giving and the way women are being more generous essentially than men, it’s a it’s a little more about that. Yeah, even though women in general are earning less than men and have less money in retirement and are generally outliving their spouses, these recent studies on their standing for charity demonstrate that young women, certainly, and especially boomer women, older women in particular are just more likely to give and to give more to charities and then beyond that, there’s, also a behavioral that women in a recent survey by indiana university also said that they they want teo uh, not just have more impact on spending. They want to be more involved in the decision making and indeed, a lot of the rise of some of these new organizations on social enterprises, uh, is due to women wanting to bypass, too simply writing a check to existing organizations but setting up a kind of a bee metrics around specific initiatives that they themselves want to see. And as long as they have the means and some of these new networks, especially on wall street and elsewhere, to accomplish that, they’ve been racing to set that up. That slowed a little bit during profession, but still a very vital force. A lot of people are saying that this income situation for women and this this habit of giving mohr, especially among older women, is very likely to continue. By twenty thirty, for example, fifty four percent of american boomers will be women. And because of their sheer numbers and the social changes that have occurred as they grew up, they have a significant impact on society through their beliefs and attitudes and behaviors and have us already. And so now, as they get older and more charitable on dh, i think we’re seeing the start of some more further behavioral changes among women towards charitable organization. So i think that’s a little bit of good. News you said earlier that the social networks are relatively young, but i hear people say how sick and tired they are a facebook or or twitter sometimes are these are these social networks with us forever? I think some forms of them are, and certainly is they morph and evolve our use of them well, morgan of all hope, the more distinctive things about social networks and social platforms that we’ve seen over and over again is that the people using them tend to define how going tio improve them over time. Ah, facebook, for example, everybody’s kind of getting organizations on facebook now so much personal things now that but seeing how they used them toe left bitch events and, you know, do pr in a different way, certainly, uh, we’re also seeing a rise in the use of private social networks, kind of a private facebook that go under certain names like ning’s o r other certain other platforms that are being set up so that it’s kind of like a private, charitable, uh, type of facebook that’s membership only on some organizations and non-profits they’re using this to great effect, one in particular is the provocative understand veterans organization? Marcia, marcia, you broke up a little bit, say they say the name of the organization again. It’s called i a v stand veterans iraq, afghanistan veterans association a okay, i look, they’ve dahna they set up a peer-to-peer private social network, uh, that bear as long as you’re in that network, you know, they don’t want this isn’t like vietnam veterans or korean, more veterans for eighteen, nineteen, twenty year old folks just and this particular war and are facing some very unique challenges, thanks largely to the health care technology being used to save them from injuries that in previous years killed and so there are unique challenges for them coming home and a lot of challenges always for veterans coming home. So combined with their existing use murcott given their age and their experience before going off to war ah, they are very successfully putting together these private networks is veterans to talk to each other, and they’re subsets like women’s subsets like people who were injured from a certain type of injury and you get on them by giving a password. You are pre qualified so you you it’s not just anybody, is not your fourth grade teacher finding you it’s a private conversation that built trust and credibility among the members and as it moves toward a membership model it’s also proving to be a very sustainable non-profit kind of model using social networks to serve those in need buy-in involving an engaged, those in need not just writing checks, marcia, just just a minute or so left, i have to ask you, what is it you love about this work and the and the research that you’re doing go how people, uh, can hold power accountable in new and constructive ways. I love how this technology couples to be advocacy sector e-giving voice teo so many more people who otherwise were not involved. These full social media, the, uh, the internet has democratized philanthropy, and in such is turning traditional organizations on their beer. I think it all about here. Social change, enormous empowerment absolutely marchenese to panic is new media advisor to the n u heimans center for philanthropy. Look for her book coming out later this year, swarms the rise of the digital antiestablishment it’ll be published by little, brown and she’s at caused global on twitter marsha thank you so much for being a guest, my honor and pleasure. Thanks, tony it’s. Been a pleasure having you right now. We will go away for a minute or two, and when we come back, it’s, tony’s, take two, and then amy sample ward is with me, and we’re going to talk about pinterest and slideshare stay with me. They didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. E-giving cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll i’m chuck longfield of blackbaud. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Hi there and welcome back. More live listener love! Montgomery, illinois. Tustin, california. Littleton, colorado. Atlanta, georgia. And two unidentified in somewhere in the united states of america. You’re masking your i p s we know who you are, i’m just since you’re masking, i won’t say who you are, but we know who you are. I’m just telling you that we know here you’re not you’re not you’re not hiding from us, but two unidentified on dh for our listeners in china, all those cities in china that are listening, i said earlier. Happy new year, gung hay fat choi also xero chou korea and seoul, korea on yo haserot it’s, time for tony’s take two, my podcasts are on top and i’m very grateful to you for that. This show was what’s hot in two categories on itunes very recently non-profits and government and organizations and my podcast that which is a monthly for the chronicle of philanthropy fund-raising fundamentals. That was a top podcast in non-profits the’s honors are enormously fleeting. I don’t know, maybe they last five minutes, maybe their last an hour, but they go fast, so i took screenshots and you could see the photographic documentary evidence is on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com. But more important than that, i want to thank you for rating the show. We had the five hundred stars campaign. Thank you very much for raiding the show on itunes more than doubled the number of ratings and i’m sure that’s what made the show trend in itunes. And there was some carryover effect to the to the other podcast to the fund-raising fundamentals that i do. So i thank you. Um, my next guest would caution me that there’s more to true social engagement than numbers and and bumps and and peeks in listenership. So i i take that seriously there there was a lot more to that than engagement. But i thank you for being engaged to the level that you have been so far, and hope to get you even further along mohr, that on my block at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two for friday, february fifteenth, the seventh show of this year amy sample ward she’s, the membership director at non-profit technology network. And ten her she co authored social by social, but even newer than that her very new book, also co authored, is social change any time everywhere with forward by two time guest on this show, craig marko is the founder of craigslist he’s been with us twice amy’s blawg is that amy sample, ward dot or ge and she’s on twitter at amy r s ward on twitter. That’s right? I’m going to finish the sentence without without without twitter id, and we know that the army’s rene amy rinascente ward welcome back. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure every month. I’m always surprised you allow me back every time. No, you shouldn’t be. I make you feel that in secure. I assume that there’s like a jargon jail downstairs. No, no, no, you’re you’re you’re pretty good about it. You’re quite good were very conscious of jargon jail amy’s here with her little field notebook it’s, an adorable little yellow forty eight page notebook. It’s branded from the state of texas. I don’t know. What were you in texas lately? Is that where you got your little fuel? No. It was given to me as a thank you by a friend, david jnf, who lives in austin. And i don’t even know why he was thanking me, but he gave me this little field notebook and it’s the perfect size it’s about phone sizes, let me ask you, you have co authored or contributed to five books by my count, when you’re going to do one on your own? Yeah, i’m hopeful that maybe that one is next, okay? And then there’s none of the like, you know, trying to interpret someone else’s edits like, for better or for worse, i could just come out of my brain and we’ll see what happens. It will be very, very much better. We’re looking forward to the solo effort, but we’ll celebrate your book coming up. In fact, i’m going to you’re going to one of your book launch events, which we’ll talk about later on act for the end later this month for those who are in the new york city area, but right now we’ll talk about pinterest and and slideshare um, how did these how do these fit into social change and social engagement? Well, i think that they’re really great examples of platforms that actually have tons of use, but organizations haven’t, for the most part translated how individuals air using that tool to how they as an organization would use it. You know, facebook’s pretty straightforward, you have an individual profile, you have an organizational page like you know, how to get started. But with these tools where there’s there’s, no difference between who the the user profile is, organizations are a little bit more, you know, without boundaries, there’s too many options, so they don’t really know how to engage. But organizations that have tried or are using the tools in part of their content strategy are really seen engagement there. I don’t know which one you want to talk about for just let’s talk about why don’t you explain what pinterest is? Because maybe so little known to some people that they don’t even know that exactly what it is? Sure, so pinterest is free to use social platform just like facebook or anything else where it is free to use, but that means you are than the product on and it’s very visual driven so it’s all about collecting on a pin board that’s virtual, just like you would maybe, you know, in your office pictures, recipes, anything on the web so whenever you pull in a block post, whatever images associated that block post would be actually what people see on your board, they wouldn’t see the block video also yet exactly. I have a pin board for women leaders of non-profits excellent on video, but it’s video zoho contributor of them speaking so just a quaint listeners that video can be as well. And then what you’ll see on that pin board if it’s videos would just be a screenshot, right like this still like you would when you had a youtube page and the video isn’t played ok? Yep. On dso you, khun, even though you have this pin board, you can actually have unlimited pin board, so maybe i have a pin board for conferences i want to attend, but then i also have a pin board like the most frequent one i see is recipes that i’m going to cook one day, but i’m never actually gonna cook like that whole sentence isn’t the title, but it’s like recipes and you know this person’s never cooking next i wish list. Recipe list. Exactly. All right. So how are charities? Engaging? Constituents were around around pinterest. Yeah, their organizations have you. Know, as you can imagine, tried different things, short campaigns, longer standing content and something that’s interesting, and i know you have the links to some infographics to share on the block. Pinterest has about eighty percent of that content is repent content. So anyway, you know, if i went to your pinterest board say, if it was the average boring, you know, think about hypothetical i would never i would never dane never squander my precious time with tony’s interest account because of pin boards are so mundane and superficial and dull, but if you if you stumbled on it buy-in accidentally, you clicked on it stumbles away there. Um, eighty percent of the content across pinterest is repent, meaning someone else pendant first, and you’ve just, you know, reposted on your on board, so but like you said, you’re, you’re bored that’s all about interviews with non-profit women leaders, i’m sure that you were the one that did that interview are or were some of the original? Yeah, so they’re going to show up all over pinteresque, but it’s because you were the source and so thinking about that at, like, how much content is shared amongst the platform where is very little of that content for people? Time is spent clicking on things, and i’m going to read websites. You know, i think organizations naturally think, well, this is, you know what has put up a bunch of great images to our website and we’ll drive a bunch of web site traffic, but that’s not the case, people are using the platform within that within the place. Yeah, so eighty percent are re pens? Yeah, that’s enormous. Yeah, do you have a corresponding stat for any buy-in a chance for twitter. How much of twitter is re tweets versus i? I don’t have a twitter for tumbler, which is a more similar platform to pinterest because it’s ah it’s like blogging but it’s much, you know, micro style and it’s about nine out of ten temblor posts are re blogged so it’s very similar in that way where people that are on the platform or just, you know, following each other and finding great things and it’s more a matter of like, i want to have the best curated recipe board versus the on ly recipe board, you know, so it’s it’s much more shared eso organizations are taking advantage of that in different ways. One one example that i really like. Because it’s very clearly aligned with the mission is city of hope, which is an l, a based a hospital research center, etcetera. They have a campaign called mushrooms for hope because mushrooms are shown to have really great health benefits, especially for people at risk of or with cancer. So they have a mushrooms for hope board that’s. All great ways, you know, recipes to use mushrooms, because we know everybody in there. Mom has a recipe board on pinterest. So why not, you know, curate all those different ways to use mushrooms so that people will re share it again in the platform and ultimately it’s, not about them knowing who city of hope is it’s about them eating mushrooms, right? You know, but they’re using that for exposure exact recipe sharing community. Exactly. Here’s a great super great cream of mushroom soup recipe. Right. Very smart. S o just to make it explicit. So people follow your boards, right? People can follow your whole board. They could also follow just you. And then whatever board here pinning tio, they could get those. Notifications or they could just never follow you and find your your pin through someone else, you know, and then see, allow just a great mushroom recipe, you know, and then click through. And actually the original post was was from your account i love those clever ideas that yeah, that shit’s a smart one. Yeah, another example of maybe not a specific example, but a way that, oh, our strategy for charities to engage on pinterest yeah, a different take on that that i i think is on interesting one is n w f national wildlife federation has a campaign for, you know, getting outside and and has a big, like camping go the great outdoor camp. I’m goingto mess up the name of their campaign, but so they have ah, aboard all about that where they’re pinning other people’s content about campaign so it’s not even their content, but again, it’s it’s making those people in the community that are talking about the campaign feel like they’re in the spotlight because this is a board of all those other people talking three national organization has exactly exactly bored or my my my pen? Yeah, exactly. Engagement. Yeah, exactly. Two way street let’s. Talk about slideshare. Sure. Because always shoot. There was something i want to ask you about. Interest. It’s, overwhelmingly women. Yes. I see different statuses. Somewhere, anywhere between two thirds tow. The mashable said maybe it’s this high is ninety seven percent. So somewhere in there, overwhelmingly women. What should we be capitalizing on that? What should we be doing with that? Yeah, i think part of just to address the point, you’re making that all the numbers being a little different. And part of that is if it’s actual user sign ups versus active users and again, different platforms in different data. Analysts consider active user as, like logs in once a month or is on it for an hour a day like which one of those is active, you know? And once you get wherever you fall in that active definition scale that’s where it starts skewing much more women. So actual user accounts are a little bit more typical of social networks, but the active is much more female. Okay on. And so i think organizations can take advantage of that in those are, you know, the examples where two shared but also just remembering that, you know, even like marcia was saying women want to be making the decision of where money goes, women want to be, you know, figuring out the causes that they care about and engaging with them, so figuring out ways that isn’t just, um, you know, a generic call to action for everyone, but you’re figuring out, what are the the women boomers in your community interested in doing? And maybe it has it it’s not, you know, all about city of hope and all about all of the life saving measures and research ugo but it’s about mushrooms, you know, and you like, let that be the thing for them? S o i think really, figuring out who your community is back to some of the stuff we’ve talked about in previous months and then focusing really specifically and letting them either drive that content and you’re just re, you know, you’re collecting that o r just taking their lead? Excellent, we’re goingto take a short break, and when we come back, amy sample ward stays with me, we’re going to talk about slideshare stay with me, too. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. And you, sample ward, is our eyes, our social media contributor and our social media scientist. I doubled that id number that she’s too modest to say that i did that on dh. We’re talking about slideshare what let’s acquaint listeners. What is slideshare great? So slideshare is ah ah, platform, where you can post content that you want to share and it’s called slideshare because it’s it’s most prominent feature is posting slides like a power point presentation or a slide deck that you would be using in a, you know, at a conference are in a board meeting or whatever for count for mac users, or use kino exactly like, you know. And then i translated over the power point, exactly little little parenthetical for mac users. Or what does whatever google aps calls there? Oh, yeah. Anyway, so that’s that’s, the most dominant features people posting slides and you can find them and review them and share them. But you can also embed them. And so you could post slides from your conference and then on your blogged have them embedded so people, you’re not just having to write out what you said. You khun embed it right there and people can flip through the slides. But what’s great is that you can also use it for all kinds of content. So do you use your organization? Is part of your new campaign launching, you know, with an infographic about why you’re running this campaign? Well, you could upload that info graphic, you know as a pdf or whatever to two slideshare embedded in your block. Have people share it just like they do. Slides and track track the shares that way. Okay, you know, if you wished you could also use that info graphic on pinterest. Exactly. Okay, on dh that and you know that goes for all kinds of other content. Maybe you have a new orientation, you know, to sheet that you give to your volunteers, will. You could post it there and then also post slides that you’re goingto review with them of this is how to be a volunteer for our organisation. This is what we do, this is why we have volunteers. This is what the volunteer job looks like, and that way you could just send them those two links they don’t have to download anything they don’t have to, you know, have have any special software, whether they’re on the phone or they’re you know, on a computer they could read or digest those materials ahead of time, show up and be ready to volunteer, and you don’t have to be emailing large files were about exactly top box or some other bright, just a link exactly. Now i’ve so in a few places slideshare called youtube for slide shows. Yes, it’s not as anyone here is popular as youtube. Well, yeah, definitely not as popular as you tube in that when you look at youtube stats, basically, you would think humans do nothing but watch youtube video that there really is a ridiculous thing. So so slideshare has about three billion views a month, so that’s still sized amglobal yeah, yeah, and and i think something social. Engagement is not just in the numbers, though, right? And i think something that’s interesting as faras actual of what the numbers say is that of all of the different social platforms facebook, youtube, whatever slideshare is foreign away, much more popular amongst business owners, organizational leaders, you know, executive level staff of different kinds of organization. So hyre go ahead. So i was just going to say, you know, if you want to make sure that you spent a lot of time preparing something for some funders that you were going to meet with, you know, you made the slide deck showing them who you are made it really clear the impact you make. Why not post that for free on a platform where other, you know, leaders in the sector could come across your sides and say that’s? Exactly. We’ve been looking for someone like you to partner with exactly, and what i was saying, slideshare is owned by linked in. Yeah. So not surprising that it’s i guess it’s gravitated toward business and you can you can embed slideshare content in your personal yet or your or your organizational linked in page yet? Yep. You khun just connect them on dh from from your linked in profile, and it’ll even just automatically pull in your most recent slides or uploads, you know, if you were doing something else so all a very easy way to embed large what maybe large files? Because especially if you’re doing power point or keynote and you have video and or there’s photos in each slide yeah, very large, you get those very large files other other ways, you know, just ask you generally other ways that charity’s could be using slideshare or other tips that you have for for engaging through slideshare well, i think that the training is really what what i’ve seen organizations do well with most often is there already creating training materials, whether it’s for volunteers, it’s for a certain department, you know, and using slideshare is away too. Put those up there, how’s them for free, you know, think about it like youtube, where even though you’re goingto use that video for your campaign or in your marketing and you’re going to embed that video on your website, you’re still going to post it on youtube so that all that organic traffic that could maybe come across it can still come in. And so posting those materials about, you know, the great things that you’re doing with social media at your organization and here’s, you know, kind of your overviewing training materials than other people that are interested in either your organization or social media in general could find that come to you and say, great, i want to get involved with your efforts, so i think thinking about it as the place you know, like youtube, where you, you how’s the content even though you’re using it elsewhere because you still just get the benefit from the other platform. And as google and other search engines index the the content that’s in your slides, it’s, sort of a wayto ona ona niche because you’re you’re slideshare going too, so dense with key notes that are just i mean, i’m sorry keywords that are necessarily embedded in there because it was part of your part of your presentation. Yeah, way of sort of owning a very narrow niche that your expert well and it’s it’s great for search engine optimization, you know, they’re one of their three highest sources is organic google searches so if i am, you know, working on a proposal for these are the five strategies for ending homelessness in new york city, and i’m pitching this to some thunders, and i want to find you know what? I’m going to start a coalition post it there because if someone else is looking just on a search for how do we end homelessness in new york city? And they get to my presentation now, i’m i’m creating credibility for myself and setting up our organization as the leader on that cause. Any sample ward should membership director at non-profit technology network and ten her new book is social change anytime everywhere, and i am going to a february twenty eighth book launch at five thirty at, which is at the planned parenthood federation quarters. You want to say a little about how people can can attend that if they’re if they’re in the new york city area? Yes, i think if you go to social change any time dot eventbrite, dot com something i will come. We started your blogged way started any sample ward dot or yes, i will put it up there. It’s not up there now, okay? Or put it. On the show’s facebook page, facebook page and lengthen group grayce forget linked in okay, yes, but that happens to be on february twenty eighth at five thirty, yes, and we’ll have books to sell but also will be doing a presentation just about ten, really tactical tips that people can take away from it, too. I’m gonna be there. I’m gonna see how many other people think you’re the social media scientists like i do think, of course, thanks for having me pleasure, my thanks also to martius to panic. More live listener love philadelphia p a you joined us a little bit late, but welcome next week. J love, ceo of bloomerang we’re going talk about donorsearch tension, you know that it’s, much cheaper and easier to keep a donor than to replace one j love has insights to help you, and that might actually have something to do with engagement using the social networks. Somebody should write a book about that and maria semple, the prospect finder and our prospect research contributor, returns she’s our doi n of dirt cheap and next week maria has to free sites to help you get serious with prospect research natural. You’re gonna have to listen and a reward we’re listening this long, and staying at the podcast is far i’m giving away two, three hundred forty nine dollars one year subscriptions to the atlas of giving remember rob mitchell was on a couple of weeks ago atlas of giving you khun benchmark your own giving get custom reports through this three hundred forty nine dollars value. One live listener one podcast right now live listener go to pick a platform, but i’m on facebook go to facebook! Go to the shows, facebook page and post i’m listening live to non-profit radio first person who does that on the facebook page gets one these three hundred forty nine dollars subscriptions and first podcast listener who does that? Also on facebook? I’m listening to the podcast of non-profit radio you will also win. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you’ll be with me next friday one to two p m eastern at talking alternative dot com finding things to getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network waiting to get in. Duitz nothing. You could hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow no more it’s time. 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Tony’s guests this week:
Professor John List, chair of the Economics Department and founder of the Science of Philanthropy Initiative at University of Chicago
Chuck Longfield, chief scientist at Blackbaud
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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It’s tony martignetti non-profit radio hello and welcome to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. The campaign for five hundred stars ongoing. We’ve more than doubled the number of ratings on itunes. I thank you very much for that the campaign is ongoing. We want to get one hundred ratings on itunes, so please go to non-profit radio dot net and then click view in itunes and raped the show. Thank you very much for how far we’ve come. Oh, i very much hope that you were with me last week. I couldn’t stand to learn that you had missed aye, aye and you ex information architecture er and the user experience. Lacey kruger lied information architect that blackbaud and misty maclachlan, the company’s principal user experience consultant, had lots of ideas to help you design your online properties for success so that visitors return and supporters stay engaged and tech trends. Scott koegler, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, told us how he sees non-profits using computing to fulfill unique needs engaged through the social networks, customize their own computing and what he expects to see more. Of in the future this week lead and matching gif ts in your campaign professor john list from the university of chicago chairs the economics department and founded the science of philanthropy initiative or spy. No longer must fundraisers rely on tradition and conventional wisdom in campaign planning, you have rigorous science to guide you around lead and matching gif ts how big should lead gift be to impact e-giving well, a one to one match raise as much as a three to one match. You’ll be glad that you’re sing and many matching corporate gif ts chuck longfield, chief scientist at blackbaud, has lots of simple ways to increase your matching gif ts from corporations tap into the annual one point four billion dollars from twenty thousand companies. Did you know that volunteer hours are also dollar matched by many companies? We’ll start with the sector benchmarking and go from there, and that interview was pre recorded. It blackbaud twenty twelve bb con conference. My pleasure now to welcome john list he’s the homer jay livingston, professor and chairman in the department of economics at the university of chicago. He’s expert in the science of philanthropy and his new project the science of philanthropy initiative spy is funded by the john templeton foundation. It’s, a research and outrage venture and we’re going to talk about his research and spies, outreach to charities and how you can participate. Professor john list. Welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s. A pleasure to have you from chicago. You getting snow out there? The way we’re getting inundated died here in new york. Not too much, but it is pretty icy here. So it is. It is difficult driving conditions here, tony. Okay, well, i’m glad you’re safe in your little office. I was, you know, i like to picture academics. You know, my major was economics that i was an economics major at carnegie mellon university. That’s why you’re so smart now, that’s. Because i was rejected by the university of chicago. I hope you were not share in nineteen. I would have been applying in nineteen. Eighty. I hope you were not chair in nineteen. Eighty. I was not. I was actually in eighth grade in nineteen. Eighty rock. Okay, well, you’re a little younger than me, but you don’t look it from your photo now, okay? Let’s, talk about spy. This work is very interesting. Like i said in the in the lead in no longer must charities rely on conventional wisdom? Let’s, start with your methodology around campaigns. What are you doing? I think that right? I think when i first i became interested in this area, tony what i what i found was that you had a bunch of really good people, a bunch of really good hearted people who were basing their decisions. Mohr on anecdotes and gut feelings. Right, then the actual scientific method. So when i say scientific method, what i mean by that is basic a basic experiment. So in that basic experiment, it’s always important to have a control group. Because then when you have ah, treatment groups such as some people might get a one to one match. You want to always compare that to a group of people who did not receive a match? Okay, that’s what? I call a program that’s the control group. Watch out. I have george in jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio. You you scared it closely. But you then you defined control. You could define control group. So you’re clear, but watch out. Okay, all right, so so we have. This is this is the scientific method. We have a control group in a test group or treatment group. And how have you been applying this to campaigns beyond matching? Sure, sure. So when i first started, i was presented with a problem at the university of central florida. So at the university of central florida, the deen challenged me to start a center to do research in environmental policy and what the dean said it is. John, you are responsible for raising money to start the research center. So of course, the first question becomes different in need of resource is for a capital project. What are the first steps i should take? And the fundraisers will tell you you should secure a fraction of the money privately before going public. So, as an economist, i asked a simple question. Well, what is the optimal fraction? What i essentially found? Wass ah, bunch of anecdotes about what that fraction should be. For example, the fund-raising school recommended that forty to fifty percent of the goal should be pledged before the public campaign begins. Other hand books recommended figures between twenty and fifty percent. Right around the same time the university of wisconsin was building there. Cole center, which houses the basketball team in the hockey team. And what they had done in the quiet period is they’re gone out. And gathered twenty seven of their seventy two million dollar goal. So as you can see that the evidence is sort of scattered all over the place. And i simply asked, how do we know which fraction is correct? And very few people had actual scientific evidence to back up their claims that a certain fraction was actually the correct fraction to gather in private before going public. Okay, so he looks just exactly is i didn’t set up a direct mail solicitation, and i split ten thousand households into different buckets or different groups. In one group i advertised, we’re looking for money for our center for environmental policy analysis here at the university of central florida, and we already have ten percent of what we need. We already have that from an anonymous donor. If you know, another group of hall souls received a different kind of letter. It was identical in all respects, except it said that we already have thirty three percent of the of the goal. And another group received a letter that said, we have already saved sixty seven percent of the goal and then the fourth group, which is our control group received the letter. But there was no mention that we have received up front money. Okay? And so this was to our knowledge to your knowledge, is was the first scientific method rigorous test at least that you could find of different match is having an impact on thie outcome of giving? And what did you find that’s? Exactly, right. So what we found is that over that range from ten to sixty seven percent that the more you advertising seed money, the more gifts that you will receive. So in this particular study, what we’ve found was that most people gave and those who were going to give actually gave mohr so the more seed money you have, you wouldn’t do it more people to give and those people who would have given anyways they actually give mme or when you have ah hyre level of seed money. Okay, interesting. And so you did this work. University of central florida. You were then stolen away, recruited away to the university of chicago for more sophisticated work. E well, i don’t know about that, but, you know, there were a few stops in between. I ended up going to the university of arizona, and then from there, i went to the university of maryland and well, i was at the university of maryland. I spent a year working in the white house at the council of economic advisers, and then after that, i came here to chicago to get smarter. Okay, well, you work your way north from from two very south locations. Work your way to the northeast and then the frigid chicago area. We’re going to take a break right now, john, and when we come back, we’ll talk about that more sophisticated work and how it’ll applies to charitable giving. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public lasts or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back. We’re talking with professor john list from university of chicago about leading matching gift in your campaign. I have to send live listener love somebody, somebody in chicago was listening. John, you’ll be gratified to know that there’s a listener in chicago and it was very good. New bern, north carolina, bethlehem, pennsylvania and washington, new jersey live listener love going out also to taipei, taiwan and shang xero change china. I don’t know how to pronounce it. C h a n g s h z chung’s. We’re doing the best we can here. China s o tio taiwan and china ni hao. All right, professor john. Now that you’re at the university, your work has expanded and you’re doing work now with some pretty large charities. Want you describe that that’s, right? That’s. Right, tony, um, you know, after you established that upfront money is important, you can ask yourself, well, should we be using that money is simply an announcement like i did at the university of central florida? Or should we be using it as an announcement and is a match? So, for example, you could say an anonymous daughter just gave us one million. Dollars now we will use those funds is a match. So, for example, for every dollar that you give, we will match with a dollar of this donors. So we ended up taking that idea, which, of course, is a common idea in fund-raising to a simple, direct mail experiment with the sierra club of canada and what we were interested in there it was simply testing the idea of announcing money, which i did at the university of central florida campaign versus announcing money and using it as a one to one match. And what we found there again, we’re we’re sending out tens of thousands of letters two households essentially using the normal ask that the sierra club uses. But here some households receive a letter that has, for example, no mention of this upfront money and that’s, a control group. Other households received the match other households received. We have some money. But there is no match campaign. And what we found there is that again. Seed money works quite well. What i mean by seed money is that if you have up front money that’s very effective in generating people to give but the interesting thing there is that the one to one match worked about as well. Is the seed money treatment in both of them worked much better than the control group. Okay. Okay. Now, the one to one match. This is with the sierra club of canada. The one to one match, you said worked a little bit better than the leadership gift announcement. Actually, they were the leadership gift announcement. Worked slightly better, but they were okay, but they were statistically the same. If you look at them throughout statistical tests, they were about the same. Okay. Okay. And that was a one to one match. Now, what do we know about the what have you learned about the differences between different levels of match? One, two. One, two, one. One, two, two, etcetera. Exactly. You know, tony that’s a great question. Because that’s that’s clearly the next step in the research agenda. And when you look a man, i should have been a profess xero economics. I did well to carnegie mellon. I have no shot having gone there so way. Always have a spot here for you at the university. Thank you, thie that you know, you’re not the dean. Just need department chair. Well, no, i’m just a lowly department there. Department chair, while i’ll use you for my letter of recommendation. All right? Absolutely. Okay. What do we know about how these different levels of matching compare? Yeah. That’s a good question, because you know, the anecdotal evidence out in the field is that obviously a three to one match should work. A lot better than a one to one match in a three to one match, of course is, for every dollar that you give, the charity will match with three dollars and the one the one every dollar you give the charity will match with a dollar. But of course, when we went out to the literature, we could not find any scientific evidence that indeed a three. The one match was better than a one to one mad again. Just a lot of conventional wisdom. And this is the tradition. Absolutely. Okay, absolutely. Which, of course, drives an economics professor. Not what we don’t have any data or scientific evidence to back up that finding. All right. Here’s. Where we? Yeah, here’s. Where we part company c i should probably just settle for an honorary. Ph d from the university because it hasn’t driven me as nuts as it has you, but i’m glad it has go ahead. Absolutely so this time we teamed with the national liberal non-profit in the us, which does political and socially oriented work, and i have to be careful because i cannot mention the non-profit due to a non disclosure agreement that we made with them. But essentially the background is that every month they send about fifty thousand letters, too. They’re regular donors, and they asked them for money and essentially what we did is, again we put the households into different buckets or different groups. In one bucket, you had households that received a one to one match offer. In another group, households received a two to one match offer, and in a third group, households received a three to one match offer. And then, of course, we compare that to a fourth group, which is the control group, right? No match, no match at all, which they received, you know, a typical letter that says we’re looking for money to help the cause, so to speak. Okay, so what we found here is that if you just look at the data amongst those households that received a match offer versus those households that did not receive any match offer. You raise about nineteen percent more money in those matching treatments compared to the control group. Excellent. And the interesting part is that effect occurs entirely on what an economist calls the extensive margin. And what i mean by that is that nineteen percent occurs entirely because the response rate went up about twenty two percent. So more people decided to give. When there was a match available, they still gave the same amount per person. But more people give when there’s a match available. So so the effect is not because people are giving mohr, but because more people are giving exactly. And this. And then the level of giving doesn’t change among among all the people who give versus the control group that’s, right? So if you were going to give anyway, on average, you give the same amount. But you just get twenty two percent more people to give some money rather than give nothing. And is that impacted at all by the level of the match? Exactly. So the other finding that we that just jumps out at you in the data. Is that the three to one, the two to one and the one to one match groups perform identically. Are you sure about that, e? I mean, nasa has made mathematical errors, and they forgot to convert you forgot to convert fahrenheit into celsius or something like that. Are you sure about this? I mean, it happened, you know, if you hadn’t. If you haven’t double check your math, i’ll understand. But i’ll tell you what. I have double and triple checked my math, and i’ve also gone to other charities, and i’ve done the same kind of experiment with amnesty international with liar, a beat, a children’s hospital. And what we find over and over again is that having match dollars, really? That really matters a lot. But the size of the match does not matter. Ah, that’s. Very interesting. Very interesting. And contrary to all that conventional wisdom that we were talking about. Okay, so the one to one match pulls well, has has the same effect as the three to one match. Okay, if you’re sure okay, what about the one, two two or one two, three. Where? A dollar gets fifty cents or something like that or those types of matches exactly that’s very good questions. So we have now extended that original experiment all the way down on the other side, so we’ve looked at one to two and we have looked at one, two, three and again one, two, three and one, two, two are the same as one to one. So at least over the range that we’ve experimented with one toe, one all the way down to one, two, three and all the way up to three, two, one we find the same result that people give the same amount of money. Now, i think we need to take care here, because if we would go all the way, say, for example, to one to one hundred, if you give one hundred dollars, we will match with one dollars, i’m pretty sure that would not work very well, although that’s a gut feeling, so i i i i don’t want to break my own rules, right? Because that’s, just my intuition that suggests if you go that far, you can actually hurt your capital campaign, but i don’t have any empirical evidence for that okay, john list is the homer jay livingston, professor of economics and chair of the department at the university of chicago, and we’re talking mostly about his work through the science of philanthropy initiative at the university spy, which you’ll find at s p i hub dot or ge, and we’re going to talk about working with it’s by very shortly. All right, john. So now we don’t know one, two one, two a one hundred match that would i guess you would expect that to be different than a one to one match, but we don’t have any evidence of that, right? That’s correct. Okay. Do you plan to test a match that that that’s that largest to see if there where where the boundary is that the one to one effect breaks down? You know, i would love to. And just exactly as you mentioned. Always looking for partners to try ideas such as that one. And i think that’s exactly. The next step that the research will take is is where does the match the effectiveness of the match actually break down? I think it’s a great research question and one in which i do wish. To explore. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Now you have some evidence of how this works on ah, dahna ah, warm list versus a cold list. Why don’t you describe those and what? That what those outcomes are exactly. Exactly. So when we think about warm list, what? The way that we differentiate people in data sets is a warm list is a person who has given to our cause within the last three years. So if you’ve given ten dollars or ten million dollars within the last three years, we label you is a warm list person. Ah, cold list person is a person who has not given to our cause in the last three years. So that just gives you some definitions of the way that we think about cold lest versus warm list. Now you’re exactly right to pinpoint that feature in our data. What we find is that the cold less people are more influenced by the match, then the warm list people it’s. Not that the wordless people are not influenced by the match because indeed, warm, less people are influenced by the match. They’re just not as influenced as much. Is the coldness, people? Okay, okay. And they’re influenced in what way the proportion of giving is greater, right? Because we’re talking about more people giving not people giving mohr money exactly it’s exactly proportion all about the number ofthe coldness people who give above and beyond the number of coldness people who give in the control group. Okay, okay. Interesting. All right, let’s, move to. Well, let’s, let’s spend a little time talking about the partnership. We have more to talk about your research in terms of leadership gifts. We’ve just been talking about matching gifts, but you’re you’re actively looking for charity partners to work with, right? Absolutely. So, you know, we’ve just we’ve just begun. We’ve just started spy hub dot org’s is you mentioned earlier, and even though my own research, i’ve been doing work in philanthropy now, since nineteen ninety eight, we have just received a very generous grant from the john templeton foundation that allows us more opportunities and more time toe work with those charities out there who are interested in partnering with us. Remember, you’re gonna have to put up with our craziness because we’re academics. We have crazy ideas. Yeah, you should see your listeners if you go to my block. You’ll see you’ll see john’s, head shot and there’s all kinds of mathematical equations behind him on a blot on a blackboard. There’s, not even a whiteboard. I was surprised i would have thought for sure university chicago would be using whiteboard technology, but not in your classroom anyway. Unless it’s an old photo it’s it’s chalk on a blackboard and you have the and use lambda in your and some of your equations that would know lambda always scared me as i was as i was doing economics, studying econometrics and regression analysis. I don’t know why just lambda lambda just seems intimidating to me lambda i don’t know a couple of lamb does behind so yeah, i looked at your picture way linda brings up everybody still old school here. I’m sitting in my office right now and i actually have a blackboard in my office which has lambda written on it. You do see that’s? Why i’m getting a bad vibe going toe. I want to bring out the love cristal here. Couple of a couple of shows ago someone held the crystal court’s love krystal i’m getting a bad vibe till and it’s a lambda thing for me? I don’t know why i just since my econometrics days, lam does giving me trouble. All right, we have just a couple minutes before break. So let’s, keep talking about eso charities. Should charities that are interested in putting up with you go to s p i hub dot or gq? Or how do they get information? That’s, right? I think that’s a good spot to go to or, you know, you can actually google me if you google john list. You know, i promise you i’m not the mass murder. That guy will come up first. I’ll probably come up second. Zoho is there one of those? Okay, yeah. You know, john list is a very unfortunate name, but, you know, my email address you can email me here at the university of chicago, it’s jade list at u chicago daddy to you. And, you know, we can begin discussions about forming a partnership. Our bottom line is this we don’t charge for what we do, but what we expect is that we can use the data that is generated from the cause you know, from the telephone or the direct mailer or the or the banquet that we could actually use those data when we write academic papers or we do radio interviews or television interviews. And what have you that that’s, really, the only cost is that you allow us to work with the data and pushed the knowledge frontier in this particular sector, because that’s, really what we’re in it for, we’re not in it to make money ourselves way really want the sector to undergo a scientific revolution, because we believe so strongly in this sector. Okay, on dh, this can be done anonymously, right? The charity name doesn’t have to be in your research. Okay, absolutely. All right, we’re gonna take a break, and professor list stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. Co-branding dick, dick tooting. Good ending. Ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. E-giving you get it, are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I got more live listener love of going abroad. Taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, seoul, korea. Anya haserot, valencia, spain. Ola and who? Nador a romania i don’t know how to say hello, but i’ve been in your neighborhood. I’ve been to moldova. I spent a week in moldova a few years ago. Okay? Professor list way told charities how they can get involved with you. Let’s, move to your research on leadership gif ts what was that about? So? So what the leadership gives essentially are about is that if you receive upfront money, there are many different ways to use that up front money. You can simply announce it is we did at the university of central florida. You can use it as a matching gift. Is we just talked about, or you can use it, for example, for small gifts. You know, small daughter gets teo to give to people who actually give to your cause. Or you can actually use it for lottery prizes. If you wanted teo to link people’s contributions to a possibility, tto win a large prize. Those are other ways in which you could use upfront money as well. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, go. Ahead what we’ve been finding is that if you actually link the donation to ah probability of winning a prize that you khun considerably increased giving rates, in fact, is much is one hundred percent, and most of that result is actually on again the extensive margin more people are giving when they have a chance to win a prize. Okay, um, and how does how does this type of e-giving compare with the one to one match? You know, this type of giving is in the range of a one to one match. So if your ah, if you’re thinking about going out and using up front money, what we’ve been finding is that a one to one match works about as well is ah, lottery where you where you give away a large prize, say a thousand dollars to one of the donors it works about equally as well as a one to one match. Okay. Okay. Um, these are too different types of inducements. This is interesting. Is that the, uh one to one match is conditional on the person giving and the the other is not it’s it’s. Definitely. What? Why that? What is that difference? Mean, exactly. So what we’ve been finding you pinpointed a very important fact in our data is that on the one case one to one match, those dollars essentially are conditional in the sense that you have to give one hundred dollars to have the anonymous donor gives one hundred dollars. We’re a leadership gift is essentially the the lead daughter giving money that’s unconditional. So what we’ve been finding is that that unconditional gift tends to be slightly stronger, a slightly stronger signal to donors. Then the match gift is, and we think that’s because the signaling value off that gift and what i mean by signaling value is this anonymous donor probably knows mohr information about the charitable cause than i do. So if i see her giving a large amount of money for the cause, that sends a signal to me that charitable dr is a good one. It’s a good signal of charitable quality, that’s what our data points to time in and time again, that the leadership, a gift is a very important signal of the quality of the charitable dr. Okay, okay. Let’s, i want to talk a little about what you’re what you’re doing next. You have some interesting research that you’re working on your next project, the one one and done right? Yeah, right, please. Yeah, that’s good that you bring that up because this is a project that right now has a lot of my attention, and this is a project that we’ve worked in partnership with smile train so smile train is a wonderful organization that takes care of cleft palates of of the youth overseas, so they send doctors overseas to take care of this very dreaded birth defect. And with them, we’ve developed a program which we call once and done and essentially it’s a direct mail solicitation. But within that direct mail solicitation, it says, give now and we will never bother you again if you check this box. John, we have just a minute left. Give, tell us briefly what? What? The impact of that is sure what we’ve been finding we’ve sent to about eight hundred thousand people in what we’ve been fighting is that if you use once and done, you can raise about three times more money, then you can with the control group onley thirty four percent of the people will actually check the box. And when you look into the future, you don’t actually lose donors. You raised just as much money in the future. Is you raised from the control group in the once and done group. So, in essence, you raised about three times more money in the initial mailer, and it does not compromise future fundez from those people. Okay, we have to sort of leave it there. I think you should call it one and done, though not once. And done. You’re missing the good alliteration opportunity wanted done. No one gift. And you’re done. Remember how many economists not an english professor? Would you go for the goal for the liberation? I don’t have more punch one and done. I think you should rename it one and done. But obviously, the impact on the outcome is what’s. More important, jonathan. Thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you very much. I look forward to talking to you soon. Tony. My pleasure. John list, chair of the department of economics at the university of chicago. You confined him at s p i hub. Dot org’s, spy hub dot or ge and he and i will be in touch to schedule the date for my honorary ph d ceremony. I have to do tony’s take too, because i want to keep john on, so i put that off a little bit it’s the five hundred stars campaign very, very simple. We’re trying to get one hundred five star ratings for the show it’s already having an impact, the show is trending it’s in category called what’s hot in non-profits on itunes and also in government and organizations on itunes s o you’re having an impact, i’d be grateful if we could just get to the get even more get to that goal of one hundred five star ratings. We start at non-profit radio dot net and then click view in itunes and that’s all explained more on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is the tonys. Take two for friday, february eighth, which is the sixth show of this year now i have for you ah pre recorded interview from bb khan twenty twelve last year. Chuck longfield, the chief scientist there at blackbaud and our subject was matching corporate gif. Ts hears that. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of b become twenty twelve blackbaud conference where outside washington dc gaylord convention center with me now is chuck longfield trick is chief scientist blackbaud chuck. Welcome. Thank you. Nice to be here. It’s a pleasure to have things very much. Your session topic yesterday was don’t leave money on the table. Ten proven practices for success with magic gift let’s start with a very basic why shoot a charity spent time with matching gives his reforms there’s compliance is going to be back and forth with companies. Why is this worth it? I’m currently about a little over a billion dollars a year is given by corporations to matching gets about one point four billion dollars it’s about twenty thousand companies in america that will match their gifts, about half of the fortune five hundred have matching gifts, they’ll match donations, and a number of them will also match volunteer hours. So, for example, if you volunteer at a non-profit you work for microsoft, they’ll actually pay you fourteen dollars for every hour that you don’t pay the non-profit fourteen dollars for every hour they volunteer and some companies if you give them a thousand dollar donation or one hundred dollar donation, they’ll match it. Oneto one, two to one, three to one. So it’s in a sense, it’s kind of newfound money caused fund-raising isn’t all that high. There are some compliance issues and paper forms and such but that’s getting easier. So in general there’s there’s a big opportunity and i’ve done a lot of research that has shown that most companies are not doing nearly enough in this area and they could be substantially increasing their revenue several percent if they pursue some of these practices. How recent is the bee in person volunteer time it’s been a mean it’s been in place for a while now. It’s a relatively new thing but it’s it’s been in place for a while. Okay, so it’s worth the small administrative time that’s right in the past. The way the process worked was the employee was encouraged to go to the hr department. More recently go to the internet at their company. Get a form. Fill out the form. Send it into the non-profit. Non-profit indicates that they indeed got the donation. They send it on to the company. The company over time has been outsourcing this to other companies to do the paperwork. So it’s actually been someone burned some authority, but the internet and a lot of links now have made this easier. So most employees now just encouraged to go to a a site. They could indicate that they made this donation and the paperwork is all done. So, for example, there’s, a company in new jersey that j k group that works with many of the fortune five hundred companies, and they have a website called easy match and you use easy match the processing for the nonprofit for the employees, for the corporations made much easier. Okay, e-giving listen, is the name of that company one more time? The company actually is kind of in the background, but their website is called easy match zizi match daikon. No, i’m sorry. E a s y m a c h dot com. Okay, hyre so what was what was the first piece of advice that you shared on building this magic gift? So one of the pieces of advice which actually wasn’t the first, but i’ll start with it is the benchmark with against your peers. So in different organizations, latto have different resources, there are organizations that have probably like yours that that i realize a greater percentage of matching gift dollars, and so when you’re actually looking at the opportunity. So for example, if your university, there were many universities, now that a matching five, six, seven percent of the total revenue with matching gifts. So if you’re doing one percent in your university, you’d say, well, how are they getting five percent to finally get one percent? If you are a public broadcasting station, good public broadcasting stations, air getting three or four percent, most public broadcasting stations are getting well under one percent so they can look at their numbers and they say, well, why am i not getting three or four percent? So it’s a good way by benchmark king first to quantify the game that you might realize really, it does vary considerably. Sounds like across different charitable vision. Well, it doesn’t, and in fact, the public broadcasting stations could probably achieve five, six, seven percent that they would need to actually start doing some of the things that comes more easily to a university, like knowing where their people work so university can collect that more easily. Where’s, the public broadcasting station might have more trouble finding out that you work for ibm, but but still the real issue is that if you know how well some of your better peers are performing, you can actually estimate what how much money is at stake for you. And then the actual practices are relatively easy. I joked in my presentation that there’s a surgeon, a tool go on, they wrote a great book called checklist manifesto, and he pointed out in the book that if doctors washed their hands, they would get ten thousand fewer patients a year would die of infections, and book doctors don’t always wash their hands. In fact, the substantial number don’t well, then matching gifts. The analogy is that if you want substantially more matching gift dollars, all you have to do is remember who matched last year and remind them when they give this year to match again. So it’s, not rocket science. But if you do it, you actually would boost your matching gets there’s a few practices like that that are relatively straight forward, okay. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Before we go back to the rest of the interview, we gotta send live listener love to estero, florida and new york, new york, new york, new york finally where you guys been? Okay, here’s, the rest of the chuck longfield interview my share, another short, simple fun i could find simple and fun that’s, right? So another one is is that a lot of people now moving, too websites to make donations it’s relatively easy to but on your website another line which says that if you work for a matching gift company, please match and you can actually hyper link it to the list of matching cos the twenty thousand companies so somebody, if they do work, they can click, they can look up apple computer, they click on apple computer indicate that they work for apple and the process can begin. And in fact, with somebody like apple, the next thing you’ll be directed to do is click on easy match and the process basically would be finished. Type in your employee i d number indicate that you made the gift and be off. Is that a list of twenty thousand proprietary? You have to be working. With a company to be ableto hyperlink super vis, yes, it’s actually it’s a very low cost and smith it’s made available by two companies, blackbaud is one kapin is and now the gp is another, and it costs about a thousand dollars to license the soft with the list of companies and an awful lot of companies already licensed. It put it on their website, but yes, a small and midsize non-profit that’s not doing that should do it because it’s relatively easy, and then the donor is self serving, servicing themselves, they’re indicating it moving on got another like he’s fun. Well, another one is, is that if you’re a regional non-profit so say europe non-profit in the houston market, houston, texas market and exxon mobil is a big employer in your market, or if you’re a bank of america and urine that their market, you can actually get their blank form. And if you know some of your employees work for exxon mobil, when you thank them, you can actually just send them the form or send them an email hyper linked directly to the exxon mobil website so they could go on, make a donation and it’s relatively easy to determine that some of these people work for exxon because they might already have volunteered their email address and their email address might be chuck it exxon dot com really pretty simple research making it so much easier for the donor hyre that’s correct. And in fact, if you look at the university’s universities that are getting this five, six, seven percent more money aren’t doing anything more than these basics, plus making sure they find out where you work. Okay, what our strategy for finding out where you work, we mention public radio probably doesn’t know that how can i help the small net size shop get that information? So probably the best way is, is that if you’re doing phone of john’s or any type of telemarketing speaking with your donors, so for example, in public broadcasting, they have pledge drives when the person calls it in pledges, you simply ask one more question, where do you work on whether your company matches and you’re off and running? If you do telemarketing you, khun called sometimes organizations calling thank their donors and you think you could ask him if they work for matching company? You can buy this data from song third party vendors. That source isn’t so great yet that that there isn’t really an easy way to give them a list of your donors and for a third party to actually tell you where they worked. But those companies are trying to get better at that. Linked in, obviously, is a celestine, so sometimes you can simply go online, and what a small and mid sized non-profit could be encouraged to do is just go online and look up your major donors. You’re bigger donorsearch sabat e-giving five hundred thousand dollars. Type them into lincoln, see if you can find out where they work it it’s, a matching company pursuit for a matching gift. So i made you die aggressive, too easy and fun. Are there other strategies? Wanna share that geever topic you’re talking about? No, you know, actually, i think the ironic thing about many of these things is that they’re actually relatively straightforward, you know, one of the things that is more complex and could actually make it easier, but easy matches is kind of doing away with it is some organizations can actually take the form, fill it out, fly you send it to you and all you have to do it, sign it and send it back in. And if you’re a national non-profit that’s hard because there’s so many matching gift forms, but it turns out in most cities in america, major cities, three of four, five companies represent eighty percent of the matching gifts in that area. So in many cases, you don’t have to work that hard for it. One other thing you could do, which is probably true of a small kruckel organization. That’s, right? That’s, right, it’s just, you know, most of the money is coming from the big employers in town. Now, one of the other things you could do which is kind of a clever thing, is that say, you know, you have a lot of people who work for a company and it doesn’t match gifts, but you may have twenty or thirty employees that worked for that company. What some people have found success in is actually just making a list of those thirty people are and going and visiting the company in their corporate relations and talking to them about what would you make a donation to us either because you’ll match your employees gifts or you’ll just make a donation, advertise it and you’ll know thirty of your employees is gonna be thrilled because they support the organization as well. And so it’s another way to engage companies and promoted and again universities have gotten very good at that practice is well and end up pursuing people. You have just about two more minutes. Okay, what else? I’m just gonna throw it out. What else would like to share around? Pretty simple teo to build scale? Yeah, that’s e-giving dahna well, the one thing thiss isn’t the technique, but just to show the opportunity when i said that there’s one point four billion dollars donated that’s about ten percent of corporate philanthropy, so corporations make many other donations to non-profits, but about ten percent of it is matching gift contributions. One point four billion that is less than, and in most cases fairly well, less than one percent off. When i said that there’s a five to seven percent opportunity and so there’s tremendous room toe actually raise total corporate philanthropy, matching of france will be by a billion. Two billion dollars. I had a question this morning about what that actually leads corporations to cut back on their match and give program, if all of a sudden what people were doing it. And i’ve talked to people both work in the company’s as well as other knowledgeable people. And they joked that it’s still such a small toe, a percentage of total corporate philanthropy that we could easily double it, and the corporations really wouldn’t block at it. So why definitely encourage non-profits to go after this money, and i think it will be there. Let’s, take that rationalization off the table. You’ll end up cutting us back if we do more often. Hm. Chuck longfield is it is chief scientist, scientist for blackbaud. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for spending time. Pleasure. Thankyou, tony. Pleasure. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage becomes twenty twelve. My thanks. Also to the people at blackbaud who supported me when i was there for their october twenty twelve conference. Thanks also to john list and eating. Debray is who works at the university and helped with all the logistics of getting professor list as a guest. And on the phone next week. Marcia stop panic is an adviser to the new york university heimans center for philanthropy. And she was the founding editor of contribute magazine. We’ll talk about the role of women in philanthropy. I’m calling it some raise money. Some raise hell. And amy sample ward, our social media scientist. Little bit of a hell raiser herself, i would say although she’s afraid of alligators. She’s coming back. Amy will be with us next week. More live listener love atlanta, georgia and columbia, missouri. Welcome live listener love to you in georgia and missouri. The five hundred stars campaign. I think i’ve mentioned it once or twice. Please go to non-profit radio dot net, click view in itunes rate the show. Go now, go right now before you forget. Thank you, and thank you for as far as we’ve gotten so far, more than doubled the number of ratings on itunes. Thank you for that. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules ivory. Much hope that you will be with me next friday at talking alternative dot com. That’ll be friday, one to two p, m eastern. Hyre dahna i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get anything. Think. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me. 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Tony’s guests this week:
Russell James, Ph.D., associate professor and director of graduate studies in charitable financial planning at Texas Tech University
Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i very much hope that you were with me last week. It would cause me great distress. I couldn’t stand knowing that you had missed thirty four things to know about people. Andrea nierenberg, president of nuremberg consulting group, returned. She had so much simple and valuable easy relationship building advice from october fifth that i invited her back and the last show, which was, of course, two weeks ago, she had thirty four things to know and howto learn them how to preserve them and what to do with them, and her list of thirty for is now on the facebook page and are linked in group also get engaged to amy sample ward are regular social media scientist, social media contributor continued her siri’s on real engagement and building trust through the social networks. October was setting the tone this month. It’s your call to action. Amy is membership director for and ten the non-profit technology network and blog’s for the stanford social innovation review. I want to welcome new listeners. I need a big spike of listeners in october and i hope that you’re still with me in november hoped very much welcome. Welcome to the show this week, it’s, the big, questing brain professor russell james at texas tech university does neuroimaging research to see subjects brains light up when they elect to put a charitable gift in their will. This former plan giving fundraiser and director of the graduate certificate in charitable financial planning has research based advice for your cultivation and recognition of bequest, gift and donordigital baste dungeon scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news. Our regular tech contributor wants you to keep your donordigital base secure so nothing escapes. We’ll talk about inappropriate use sql sounds like jargon jail already inference and overloads between the guests on tony’s take to my block this week is charity registration matters. Why compliance with state charity solicitation registration laws is important? If you’re listening and you’re on twitter, you can use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us there where monitoring that hashtag in the studio and i want to welcome my guest is russell james he’s, an attorney and phd he’s, an associate professor and the director. Of graduate studies in charitable financial planning at texas tech university, where he also supervises the graduate certificate and charitable financial planning. He has spoken at the f p international conference, the big twelve gift planters association and giving korea we have listeners from korea pretty regularly, actually, he’s presented his research at universities in the u s, spain, germany, the netherlands, ireland, scotland and england, but i noticed not whales, i guess the welsh don’t care for russell james for some reason, the welsh have not invited him, but the irish, scottish and english have he’s, a consultant to the south korean government, around their effort to adopt plant e-giving legislation, he’s been a plan e-giving fundraiser and a college president. Russell james, welcome to the show. Thanks so much, tony. Glad to be here. It’s a pleasure to have you. You’ve had a lot of jobs but a lawyer. Fundraiser, college president now, college professor, you’re you’re having trouble holding jobs? Yeah, that that is an issue. But hopefully i can. Okay, what’s next, the construction trades. Maybe. I don’t know. No, i’ve got ten years. I’m gonna stop. Okay. Well, that’s it you’re set. Okay. Um, our big questing brain. This is really very, very interesting to me. You do? Ah, neuroimaging research. Why did you decide to pursue this? Well, i’ve spent a lot of time in the area of fund-raising a particular plant giving, and there have been a handful of studies done on shared will get e-giving decision making in the scanner, but nothing had been done yet. Looking at decisions for request, a charitable giving. And so that was something new and something i was interested in. And after getting ten years gave me the opportunity to take about a year and a half or two years to learn how to do this neuroimaging so that we could proceed with finding out how the brain works. When you ask people questions about making charitable bequests, this is not a line of research that a non tenured professor would have the luxury of pursuing. Well, it it takes a long time. And since my original background is not in neuroimaging, it takes a fair amount of time to get up to speed with the process. And it helps having a little bit of job security before you start chasing rabbits like this. That’s one. Of the few jobs you have not held is neuroimaging scientist. Thank you. Um, and what was your methodology for this? So the approach was tio have people when they’re in the scanner, they can observe a computer screen, and we could ask them a variety of questions. And what we wanted to do here is we wanted to have questions that were identical but on lee different and whether we were talking about giving money or volunteering or leaving a bequest gift. And since we can’t actually enforce a bequest gift in the scanner, what we did is we ask them if you signed the will in the next three months, what’s the likelihood you might leave request gift to a particular organization. And we used about about twenty eight large charitable organizations on we also ask them about if they were asked in the next three months, what was the likelihood they might give, give money to the same organizations? Or that they might volunteer time to those organizations in the idea being here, we want to see what brain areas are engaged when people are thinking about the probability or thinking about this idea of, well, let’s. See if i was asked if i was finishing a will. How likely is it that i might do this? Okay, and you compare that with a current gift and volunteering, okay? And because you see those as as different methods of support. And so you thought there might be some different segments of the brain that are that are involved exactly. And also because we understand a lot more about current giving and volunteering because people engage in that behavior very frequently, we can observe it a lot. But the quest e-giving is something that people engaged in very rarely oh, and oftentimes not observed. And so we sort of want to compare with the thing that we know about better. Did the volunteer part did that involve boardmember ship buy-in a chance it did not. It was just a generic question of hey, if you were asked the next three months, right, your likelihood that you might volunteer time too. You know, the american cancer society, for example, okay? Because i think it was boardmember ship. I think their brains would have exploded inside your scanner. You have what we want to avoid. You’d have a mess, and plus you you have a dead subject. So it’s no, in these invalid research. Okay. Concerned with their safety. So that’s a that’s cool this other inside a scanner. And does this look like now? I’m just a little curious about the technology. Does this look like an emery that people slide into? And then the screen is above them? Or what does it look like? That’s? Exactly. Right? So they’re inside an m r i it’s a fairly large boardman sheen, but it still they’re sort of locked in there. And before they do this particular experiment, they get used to using the screen, have a couple of buttons that they can use on each hand to respond to questions on. So they sort of get used to and really, you know, they focus on the screen because there’s nothing else to look at. I mean, it’s fairly dark out there. And you have this projected image of the computer screen on that’s the process which seems very weird, but you actually get used to it pretty quickly. Is you’re going through these preliminary process? How did you get volunteers for to be subjects for research like this? Well, for this first for this first group, we just asked folks who were around the university campus so employees graduate students, that sort of thing in the future we’re looking at once we find the results to make sure that those results are also replicable when we are doing with other populations. Ok, i see grad students. I mean, they’re hungry. That right? So for twenty five bucks, they’ll do anything. You know what? They are paid. Yes. Ok. Eso what did you what did you find? I’m interested in what you found across the three different types of, of, of gift of a way of ways of supporting now also, russell, we just have two minutes before our first break. So just, like, sort of tease what? What you found what we found was two different areas that were much more strongly activated for bequest decisions. Van forgiving, volunteering decisions. Those two areas are the call once called the peculiar and once called the lingual gyrus. Now the brick union is something that’s engaged frequently. When people are taking an outside perspective on themselves, sometimes called it’s been called the mind’s eye. And the lingual gyrus is actually a visual or visual ization area. So when you’re dreaming, for example, you will engage the lingual gyrus, and if you have damage to that area, it can eliminate your ability to dream. So we saw these two areas and independently we’ve got some activity that involves people looking back on themselves from an outside perspective and also engaging in visual ization. But what was really exciting is what we found in other studies that simultaneous osili activated both of the same areas that i think is a lot more applicable to this situation where we’re looking at now so i can tell you about those way have time, or we’re going to take a break first. You said the lingual gyrus is the dream center. Is that right? It’s engaged in that engaged okay area. My lingual gyrus was was hyperactive last night, but you’re probably not into interpreting dreams out suppose you dont go that far do don’t go that far. All right, well, we’re going to end with you, then we’re done. No, russell, james will of course stay with us for this break. And i hope that you do too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back were with professor russell james from texas tech, and we’re talking about the requesting brain. We will not be analyzing my dreams. Sorry, but those were disappointed in that, but we will continue. Of course, this is conversation. So this is russell. This is what people sort of their self image and and what you call, sir there, their life story right in the reason we say, that is we looked at some other studies that engaged both of the same areas simultaneously. And one of them, for example, was where they i had older adults in the scanner in their sixties and seventies, and they were shown photographs from across their life from the the different ages of their life. And when they saw those photographs in the ones that they remembered what they were doing, they remembered exactly what was happening in these two areas were much more strongly engaged. And so the idea is that these are areas there is associated with what we would call visualized autobiography and there’s, a variety of other studies that also suggests that your reasonableness of this conclusion so the idea being that when people are thinking about making a charitable request decision they’re actually thinking about this concept of how does this fit in to my life story? It’s almost like they’re riding the final chapter of their autobiography and asking about whether or not this cause or this organization fits with that life story. And so it turns out those are very different questions than we might ask with, say, a current gift issues that are in other context, really important, like what’s the next big project, or how financially financially good is this organization, those things sort of fade into the background on this actually fits with some other research that was just finished last year in a phd dissertation by claire roundly and united kingdom, where she interviewed folks about why they had left money to the organizations that they had identified in their in their state plan. And it turns out that really it was all about their life story, it was about their connection with the cause, or with the organization because of something that had happened to them or to a family member that makes that that connection come together. So this it’s a little bit with an example, one of my friends who’s been planned e-giving after he graduated from law school and had this background training when he would go out and talk to people, he would see that they had all of these tremendous tax advantages that they could take advantage of. Maybe they’ve got qualified money that they want to make a gift and, you know, there’s, a state gift and there’s ways to do that, and he would start by talking about that. And he said i had to learn to stop doing that, that what i needed to do was to start by asking, how were they connected with the organization? What was their life story and how it was it was connected in on so that seems to fit with some of the things that we’re seeing in the scanner here, okay? And that’s pretty widely recognized, i think that it’s it’s, the love of the, the charitable work, whatever it might be feeding people, sheltering, education, spiritual, whatever it is, it’s, it’s, the love of the work that that moves people to include the charity in there in there will absolutely. And i think, it’s the issue here of you know, when we think about this sort of related into some psychology from fifty years ago that talks about how two people deal with it, reminders of their own mortality and a couple of things they do one they tend to avoid those reminders, but the other thing they tend to do is to seek what’s been called symbolic immortality, that’s that something about me that’s goingto live beyond me. So it must be, you know, my name or my values or my my family, and we tend to focus on those things mohr when we’re reminded of our of our own mortality. And so this links in with this old psychological research from for many years ago that talks about people’s desire for symbolic immortality, and it’s actually a form of to use another technical term, a form of autobiographical heroism where we wantto see ourselves as being a significant our lives is being meaningful. And so this, uh, psychological theory fits with what we’re seeing in the scanner, in the sense that people are engaging in this kind of autobiographical thinking when they’re making this kind of you did a very good job there of keeping yourself out of jargon jail by defining that very hard to do, but okay on dh this has some implications for recognition of gift, which will get recognition of gift by will, which will get through this thiss idea of immortality i have to send live listener love got tons of listeners today, it’s incredible! I’m going to recognize first. Seoul korea live listener loves seoul, korea my guest, russell james has consulted with your government as they were trying teo create plan giving legislation. Also in asia, we got tokyo and asahi, japan, and a masked listener in china. I don’t know there’s some kind of furtive activity or it’s blocked by someone else but got a mask listener in china here in the u s spearfish, south dakota. I love that welcome spearfish. You’re not you’re you’re hunting there, but you’re but you’re only hunting fish on dno. No big arms, i guess. Alexandria, louisiana, new bern, north carolina live listener love to all of you in asia and here in the u, s and there’s more to come. Um, visualized autobiography now. So this is russell. This is the way we were perceiving ourselves. This is not this is not rational, right? But this is our our our own self image of ourselves. Well, self image, the difference in an inactive activation here was not taking place in the in the number crunching part of the brain thing wasn’t the purely rational prefrontal cortex this is mme or the you know, the the imagery on the scene oneself and sort of your your own life story or or autobiography, you know, finding some support for some of this earlier research in psychology about people being reminded of their own death kind of lends support to certain results that we see in certain strategies that we see if somebody is pursuing consciously or unconsciously symbolic immortality as part of their estate planning problem that’s, symbolic and what i’d like to be symbolically immortal. Well, i would like to be a very good well, you know, let me tell you about some plan giving opportunities. They’re over there at texas tech and the graduate certificate and channel financial planning to wear. When we look at charities that receive a larger share of their income from the quest sources. Often times, you’ll see charities such as universities that are expected to be around for a very long time, especially giving things like a, uh, an endowed fellowship for a scholarship that that we expect to live on beyond us. And it may be one of the reasons why these organizations or other organizations focused on saving lives, whether finding new cures for for new diseases or other kinds of lifesaving approaches can sometimes be particularly attractive, and if you compare that to other organizations that don’t necessarily focus on raising funds for something that’s going to be permanent, but rather raising funds for something they’re going to do right now and spend right now that’s very attractive for current gifts, but it may not be particularly psychologically attractive force st gifts, because we don’t really want something that’s. Just all of the money is going to be used for a big bang immediately after we die. We’d rather have something that is going to last a long time that maybe our grandkids could come and and say, oh, yes, that’s something that my grandfather set up and still here today. But organizations that might have a more current mission could certainly create a fund or an endowment. Or maybe, ah, part of their mission, that is. Something that’s going to be that is everlasting exactly, and what i would encourage because i know there’s always a tension in those organizations if you set up something that’s permanent, those air funds that you can only use the interest off of, for example, endowment that income off. So what i would suggest is setting up these kinds of permanent giving opportunities exclusively for the quest donors on say, you know you can set up a permanent endowment, you nose let’s say it’s, an animal charity, a permanent endowment that will support, you know, one or two are five animals of whatever the interest of the charity is forever, but that this gift is on ly through request e-giving so you don’t have to worry about cannibalizing your current giving, but yet you give those kind of permanent opportunities that are more psychologically attractive when it comes to charitable bequests. Decisionmaking. Okay, i want to remind listeners. Russell james is an attorney, phd and his associate professor at texas tech university, where he supervises thie graduate certificate in charitable financial planning, and you’ll find information about that at encourage generosity dot com is there also, then the concern russell by the way, do people ever call you james russell? People mess that up all the time. I notice i have not done it once. I’m being scrupulous about not calling you james. I don’t get that with, you know, my name’s, it’s, not generally, not a problem, very black, but i will not. I’m being very careful not to make that mistake with you. Do do smaller organizations now, you think have have a little a bit of a challenge over larger, well established institutions that have been around for decades and generations? Yes, certainly, i think that’s a much bigger challenge when it comes to raising the quest dollars as opposed to raising current dollars, especially if we’ve got this connection where we want something that’s going to last a long time, then we sort of have to overcome that barrier if i’m not even sure the organization itself is going to last a long time. There are some ways to overcome that, though. I mean, you could certainly set up permanent endowments that were, you know, managed by a large corporate trust or bank or something like that so that you could give that that feeling, that sense of permanence that would be there regardless of the sea organization but it’s definitely a barrier. The other thing, though, is that people don’t necessarily have to be attached to a particular organization. They may be attached to a cause and it’s just a matter of finding those people who have that life story connection where it is attached to a cause, if that’s the same cause of your organization on dh trying to make that connection with the life story. And so how would a smaller or newer charity go about doing that? How do you make that connection with the with the person’s life story, based on what you’ve learned? Well, there’s, a couple of different ways to do it. One is obviously if you just know your donors and you know, those those connections and those stories, the other is to remind people of those possibilities by telling stories that give them examples, you know, telling the story about a person who has supported a particular cause been involved with the particular cause and ideally, if you have an example, this may be only for a little bit older organizations. But if you have an example of someone who has left money in a bequest that you could talk about how that person is still having an impact today, even though they passed away a number of talking about the deceased request donor zach plea because that’s that’s, the thing that’s really attractive is if i see that example, not only is an example to me in my behaviour, but it’s a signal that says, hey, these people are still being remembered, they’re still being talked about, and they’re still making an impact and that’s the real message that i think we want to get across. That’s, that’s, symbolic immortality, exactly, and that’s different than what we typically see, which is here’s a story about current donors who have made a plan now that’s fine, but that’s not the same thing as showing that we recognize people who are deceased in there, sir. Still having an impact because that’s, where we get that real example of the symbolic immortality. Excellent, i think that’s really that’s very concrete, valuable advice um, there’s also, you have some advice around recognition based on a person’s longevity of giving, irrespective of of the size of the gift. Certainly so if you think about the goal here, the goal is to make it obvious to the person that putting your organization in their state plan fits with their autobiography. It fits with their life story. So one of the ways that we can remind them of how much they fit their life story fits in with the organization is to consider giving recognition to people, not just for how much they gave this year, but recognition to people for their longevity and giving, especially your older donors who, you know, maybe financially, they have a lot of assets, but not a lot of income, and so they’re not giving us much currently, but recognize them for, you know, reaching a five year club, ten year club, twenty year club, you might even consider recognizing them for their lifetime, giving that this is some amount that you’ve given throughout the line throughout your life and the purpose there, you know, certainly if you’re recognizing him for longevity, that has a nice side benefit on current giving that, you know, you want to keep the street going, of course, but it also is a way of saying, you know, it’s, just like, you know, you get one of these credit cards, and it says members sense, you know what if i’ve got that member since nineteen seventy eight will you know, i’m going to stick with this organization because it’s, just part of who i am, you know, part of my my my autobiography in a sense well, i think charity’s aaron a much stronger place to be. Able to do that if they just remind people, you know, look at how long we’ve been together that that kind of idea, where it makes it clear that the organization that the cause is part of their life story and that that makes it fit in very well when they’re deciding which beneficiaries to use in an estate plan, excellent listeners, i hope you’re taking notes or you’re gonna have to go back and listen to this podcast again. Here i thought, russell james, you know, i figured academic is going to be stuffy, nothing is and nothing is going to apply it’s all going to be a theory, a land, and but we’ll have him on anyway. You know? I’ll make fun of him and things like that, but no, i mean the value, the advice is really valuable. No, i knew this is this is really valuable advice for forgetting bequests. And russell. I never thought you were stuffy. I’m just getting well, i can be if you want me to. Because i also presented academic conference. Yeah, no, i know i left that out of your bio now. No, no, we don’t we don’t want that. Don’t turn. Don’t start turning that on. Keep keep the charming side. All right, so also that this this idea that the organization is going to live beyond me, i know you touched on this a little bit, and i just want to i just wantto see if you have any more advice around how we can get people to recognise that this organization will will live beyond you when when they’re sort of a new organization, we just have about a minute left. Well, one thing to consider is this if we look at the strongest competition and our field for those charitable request dollars, the absolute strongest competition comes from private family foundations, and they’re psychologically very attractive because they have your name on it. They follow your rules, and they could live forever. But keep in mind these very attractive organizations are also new organizations. They’re ones that people create essentially for themselves. So it is possible to set up a scenario where you could emphasize that this fund, for example, is a permanent fund. And, you know, if you feel so compelled, you could even indicate that it’s administered by a, you know, by some other financial institutions or entity. Yet if you if you need to do that, but understand that is the gap. It is easier for a long time organizations, but there’s, some strategies that you can do, which will try teo bridge that gap a bit absolutely excellent. James russell no russell james on attorney, phd, professor at texas tech university and supervises the program and graduate certificate in charitable financial planning at texas tech, and you’ll find that at encouraged generosity. Dot com russell, thank you so much for being a guest. Thanks for having been my pleasure. Thank you, and right now we take a break when we return. It’s, tony’s, take two and then scott koegler, our regular tech contributors with me, with me for donordigital baste dungeon, and i hope you will be too co-branding dick, dick, tooting the good ending, you’re listening to the talking alternate network, waiting to get me thinking. Nothing. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz if you have big ideas and an average budget, tune into the way above average. Tony martin. Any non-profit radio ideo. I’m jonah helper from next-gen charity. Welcome back, it’s, time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is charity registration matters. Part of my consulting work is doing charity registration, four charities that don’t want to do it themselves. This is registering in every state where you are soliciting donations so it could be a texas charity, and they may be sending email to wisconsin and paper us mail to pennsylvania and that texas charity needs to be registered in wisconsin and pennsylvania. I do that work, and i also wrote a book for charities that want to do it themselves and my block this week is just reminding charities that it’s important teo be in compliance for three reasons you could be embarrassed. There have been charities that are become public and in the headlines. Um for their failure to comply and have a couple examples on the block. Your board members are at risk because their fiduciary steer charity and if you’re not following laws, there’s potential for personal liability, actually among your board members and the irs inquires the year your annual form nine ninety has a couple of questions that i ask about your compliance with thes state laws and that’s a lot. My blogged the post is called charity registration matters. My block is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, november thirtieth, the forty ninth show of the year. Oh, what a pleasure to welcome back scott koegler he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it n p tech news dot com he’s, our regular tech contributor. You can follow him on twitter at scott koegler konigstein and i saw today. Scott, you have a beautiful about paige at about dot com you’re in a desert scene there. Looks like you climbed a desert mountain or something. Is that is that photo shopped? That was actually in phoenix a couple years ago. Okay, it was i did. I did perform some photo shop on it, but nothing that you could notice. Hopefully. Really? Well, it looks very noticeable to me. Were you actually in that setting? Where? The photo that the photo purports tohave one that was sitting on that rock you were? I extracted the cactus songs, though, so that they wouldn’t show. Okay. Oh, i see. All right, they were stuck in your leg? Is that why? Okay, we’re talking this month about donordigital baste dungeon there’s a lot of sensitive data in people’s databases isn’t there there is and it’s one of those things that i think i think everybody kind of knows about it, but i think also that it’s it’s also something that is typically beyond the the the understanding of most folks who are engaged in managing a non-profit i mean, it’s pretty technical stuff, you know? Well, you’re going to break it down because you’re a former officers ceo, right? You’re a former chief information off, you’re going to break this down information off, okay, so we’re goingto this maybe typically outside people’s can, but we’re going to get it within their ken great, but what’s in their first of all what we need to be concerned about what kinds of data first? Well, typically it it could be any data. But the most sensitive, of course, is the information about your donors on a sensitive for a whole bunch of reasons one is you really don’t want that information being spread around, too, although we’re all friendly within the non-profit community let’s, face it. Everybody’s competing for the same funds. So you really don’t want that whole list of donors and their history, uh, kind of spread around to somebody else who may be able to make them, you know, make a better appeals, right? Right. So just just just not letting you get out of the bag the names, right? But then you might have ah, dates of birth. You most likely have addresses. Credit card. What? Right? I mean, well, sure, but right now i’m talking about just the competitive nature, but okay, okay. I’m getting getting someone’s eso security number, which i think typically is not part of a donor database, but definitely credit card information. A cz you said, probably date of birth. Certainly addresses. And those kind of things are pretty sensitive. Um, well, i just moved to south carolina, and just before i moved here. Thank goodness they had a break in of the south carolina, um, business and resident database. And there were literally millions of so security numbers and names. I just sucked out of the database and people around the world, man. Now, imagine if that was new york that that would actually have value. Terrible, right? But in north and south korea in south carolina, no that’s, terrible money, there’s. Nobody listening. I don’t think live listener loved, but nobody in south carolina today, so but i will send live. Loved out tio reston, virginia, forest hills, new york where i used to live. I used to live in a hundred street sixty seven thing i used to write. Buy-in forest hills high school and brooklyn, new york all right, we got some local of local live. Listen, love no. Alright that’s. A terrible new yorker joke. I’m sorry, south carolina. I apologized. No it’s critical. So so that’s that’s pretty embarrassing to the government to the state of the government. What they found out wass that if they had installed a twenty five thousand dollars update to their database, they would have they would have prevented the whole thing which cost them something like forty million dollars. Zoho and isn’t the security doesn’t cost anything it’s relative cost and the damage to your reputation and, you know not to mention the damage to your to your constituents. Financial, no stability and abilities, right? Identity theft is a huge issue. Okay, you haven’t ordered that one of the okay on, we’re going to talk through it. You have an article on this subject at p tech news. Dot com let’s talk about something that i’m not sure you can prevent this one, though inappropriate use right by people who are authorized to access data, right? Did you know tony? And you probably didn’t know this because you’re smart guy, that’s, ziga risk the security is not from outside the the organization, but from inside. Well, i can’t say i knew it, but it sounds intuitive because if somebody’s going to do bad acts, you can’t prevent that all the policies and all the procedures, if somebody wants to get around them and they ran inside are already they’re going, they’re going to do it right, right, it’s pretty easy to do. You put a thumb drive in your computer and you copy it out and there you go. Yeah, typically nobody knows who or what happened. Yeah, there are, by the way, uh, software and systems operating systems like windows. Mac. Um, i got tools that can that can actually prevent that. But again, you have to know about it. You have to know. Think about it, then you have to actually install it. Monitor so it’s not a story simple, but the point is that yes, it’s really possible and happens all the time that somebody within the organization absconds with your data and something they shouldn’t. Yeah, that seems like the toughest one because, like i said, if somebody really wants to get it and they’re inside already, i think they will what’s the physical damage is next what’s your concern that well, you know, physical damages is basically if your computer dies or if your hard drive, uh, you know, fails and he didn’t have been appropriate back-up of your data and again that’s one of those things that just happens all the time and people don’t really think too much about it. Everybody thinks about back-up, you know, you get a computer and set up your back-up hopefully, but unless it’s a an automatic function, unless you’re monitoring it and unless you actually test e-giving bringing your back-up data back from the world story asked the retrieval, right? Yeah, you never know if it really works and you know, the day comes when you really need it, you try it. For the very first time ever. And guess what, probably a thirty percent chance that it’s not gonna work, okay? And that and the back-up shouldn’t only be local shouldn’t only be in your office or even in your in your town. Geever right, absolutely should be. You should have in addition to your local back-up you should have offset back-up, and that could be if it’s physical you can have courier service, pick up a a thumb drive or or a hard drive or wherever and physically carry it off site, and they’re also more and more online back-up services that you simply connect to over the internet cloud, right when you and i have talked a lot about the cloud we have right sabat besides that, a lot of databases now are actually stored in the cloud, so you may not actually have a copy of it anywhere physically within your facility. Okay, so wait be sure you know where it is and where the copies are that you are able to get it back when one and if you need it, something that struck me as interesting you. The article talked about sql so well, i’ll give you a break and i’ll bring it up so you can avoid jargon. Jail? Explain what we’ll explain what sql is. Do you know what? I hope you know what sql stands for? I looked it up. Well, actually, it’s irrelevant, you know, it’s. Very relevant. Weary language structured clear language. Yes. Don’t say it’s irrelevant when you don’t know it’s and it’s enormously relevant. Oh, no, i do know, but the okay. All right. Well, it’s, what? Really right? See, what it stands for is the only thing i know about it that’s all i know that’s. So i’m trying to show off. That’s. The only thing is all i know is what the initials with the abbreviation stands for. Okay, what does west culwell metoo tony martignetti okay. Donordigital base. Which hopefully, in sum of money, what you’re actually doing is your you’re performing a sql query. You’re asking the database to find specific information and that, like that query language. You know something and actually in english, it says find data, like, quote tony martignetti in database a, b c that’s. How actually looks like. But those queries can do a lot of things besides find they can actually delete data. They can change day there, they can move data. And so i could perform equity that says, find all records that include tony martignetti and delete them. Okay, that’s so and there’s all kinds of other things. But you but how would somebody who doesn’t have access to the database this is an outsider now, right? How would somebody who doesn’t have access to the database execute thes sql queries? Well, that’s, that’s what hackers do they find vulnerable spots in certain systems on they just do it. Sometimes they just do it because they’re mean and nasty. And sometimes they do it because they want to move your data from where you have it to where they want it. All right, so so it can’t happen, but it’s basically can it comes up with the under the domain of hacking? Okay, i see you don’t visit, right? It’s, not just inside. I think i think to be more damage done to a database if the if the command was to add tony martignetti, that was probably more create more. That would be much more destructive. What we have just like a minute before before break. Or so ok, you have another interesting one inference. This was logical but interesting what’s what’s inference about in front er, otherwise known as social engineering. If i want to find had the president of a company, i’ll call in to just pick up a phone, call the front desk and say what’s the name of the president company and they’ll give it to me and then i can ask for not in the same phone call, okay, right, separate call or other information and over twenty calls, i’ll get everything that i want. Okay, so each individual bit is innocuous, but you put them all together some nefarious actor is doing, and you can have some really private information, right? Right. And it’s pretty easy to come by surprisingly, yeah, ok, well, yeah, because each little pieces is innocent. Okay, we’re going to take a break, and when we come back, scott and i will keep talking about how to keep your your database dungeon secure. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz lorts oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people, better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. All right, scott koegler we’ve laid out these problems and there’s even more in your article. Att n p tech news. Dot com what are some ways toe? Get around and prevent to really prevent these these problems? It really is tough, tony, because there are so many ways that things could go wrong. So the biggest, biggest thing to do is to make sure that you’re paying attention. Uh, number one, i know where your data is and know that it’s backed up half the fact that you have, uh, valid back-up so you can restore check? Uh, check your employees and your your people that are working and have access to the data. You really may not be able to actually prevent it, but no, i just talked to them about how sensitive this is. Be sure that anybody who has access to get to the data has not disclosure. Uh, language in whatever document signed with them, it won’t protect you won’t actually keep them from doing it. But for a lot of people, it may be enough of a, uh just a warning for them toe not go there. It just makes it a little bit tougher. Okay, what about having different access levels? Certainly. And fortunately, most of the applications that are for sale today for non-profits i already have those kind of things. So you have? Ah, user who is able to look up information and possibly key and donations, but they probably don’t have the ability to look into personal histories. They have the ability to delete records, those kind of things. So for the most part, what kind of function is is built into software that amount profits will will buy in order to run their operations. Okay, um, when? When you do buy software, aren’t there sort of default administrative ieds that hackers might be ableto exploit? Uh, yes. Absolutely. Good points a little about that. Would you please? Sure every application comes with the typically it’s the admin or administrator password with password? Password? Uh, absolute first thing you want to change that, uh, you may want to. If you’re actually in charge of setting it up, you may want to remove that that user after you’ve already set up a different one and also check the list. Of existing user accounts because sometimes there may be some in there that air again set up by default. Good remove any that you you don’t know what they are, you can do that also just kind of during your and during the course of using the system, check the usual to see who’s in there. You may have somebody who was registered inappropriately, either by accident or on purpose. They may have found some way to get into the system and register a high level access the count. There really shouldn’t be there. And the best thing to do is just either restrictor access or just delete them. If they are actually somebody that you want in there, go call you up and say, hey, what happened? And if they’re not good, okay, former employees to write, you might have old account old ieds for former employees, certainly, and that should be covered under the hr policies. And i know a lot of small organizations don’t actually have hr policies that goes along with the non disclosure agreement. The sooner someone is charlyne ated, actually, before they walk out the door before you terminate them, you should remove access. To any of the information that you hold right? Okay, so before you actually have the meeting where they’re ended, where they’re terminated, you wantto cut off their access so that they don’t go back to their office and do something mean, sure, because one of their going to do the most right after the meeting, not before yeah, okay, okay, now, i mean, it sounds underhanded, but its protection, i mean, it’s just basic risk management, okay, what about is this much of a deterrence? If if users know that all they’re i don’t know, maybe a keystroke, logging or all their activity with the databases being logged, is that a deterrent? Um, you know, it’s a return for somebody who thinks that they will be held accountable for somebody who who believed that they could get away with it, they don’t care. So it really comes right down to how trustworthy, ru employees and, you know, what kind of people do you have volunteering? And, um, yeah, it’s tough, and i’m not sure that those kind of things are are effective, but it’s, you know, it’s one of those things that also probably couldn’t hurt, right? Yeah, okay. I mean, it will keep the honest people from crossing the line, right? Like putting a lock on the glass door. Okay, okay, um, the thing i was thinking about is maybe this sort of suggests that doing background checks on employees is valuable. I know their their charities that object to doing that, but this is sort of suggesting that knowing the background of a potential employees could be could be helpful. Absolutely. And i think it depends on what’s at risk if you’re a small charity that, you know, has limited resources and limited funds. And, um and you know what, you’re actually what they’re actually what they have, that risk may not be all that much, and i don’t mean to say that you know, that there’s little at risk, but you made you may not really care about doing background checks, but if you’re a respected organization, i think anyone who is coming to volunteer there appreciates that kind of thing. Scott, we have to leave it. We have to leave it there. You can go. Thank you very much. You can follow him on twitter he’s at scott koegler. And that happens to be his name to another coincidence and he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news scott, thanks so much. Thanks my pleasure. Next week i’ll have one of my interviews from bb con, which was the blackbaud conference i was at about two months ago or so, and also maria simple will be back she’s, the prospect finder, our prospect research contributor. And she’ll be back with maria’s top ten the sights she uses most in her work she’s, our doi and of dirt cheap and free. So you know that you’re not gonna have to spend a lot of money to follow her advice today. There’s a new fund-raising fundamentals, which is my chronicle of philanthropy podcast its new out today the topic is year end fund-raising tips you’ll find it on the chronicle of philanthropy website. You’ll find it on itunes and again. It’s called fund-raising fundamentals. You can listen non-profit radio live our archive. Our archive is on itunes at non-profit radio dot net. From there you can subscribe and listen on the device of your choice at your leisure, wishing you good luck the way performers do around the world were still in czech republic and slovakia zoho mv us. Islam vous break a neck, so i wish you for the week. Islam vous. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Last minute live listener love out to mexico city, mexico. Thanks for joining us from there, and i hope that all of you will be with me next week at talking alternative dot com. You’ll listen on next friday, one to two p, m eastern. You didn’t think to get ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get him. Take it cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream. Our show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry. Shock a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com everytime was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening tuesday. Nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Talking dot com. Hyre
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Tony’s guests this week:
Joanna Woronkowicz, associate at University of Chicago’s Cultural Policy Center and lead author of “Set in Stone: Building America’s New Generation of Cultural Facilities, 1994-2008”
Preeti Davidson, director of development at The Legal Aid Society
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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Cerini hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent is july twenty seventh. Welcome time, your aptly named host. I very much hope that you were with me last week. I hope to hell you were with me last week because it would hurt me deeply if i had learned that you missed trim tab marketing. James he eaten is president and creative director of tronvig group. The metaphor of a trim tab as one person who can move an entire society has professional and personal meaning for him, he explained how something small and seemingly insignificant could make a big difference in your marketing and how to figure out what that small thing is and no more crappy corporate relationships. Erica hamilton, chief program officer for i mentor, and vanessa mendenhall, vice president of the fellows program at new york, needs you described their holistic approach to your corporate relationships this week. Arts and culture building bust joanna veronica bitch is an associate at the university of chicago’s cultural policy center. She’s, lead author of a study of the major building boom of museums performing arts centers in theaters in the u s from nineteen ninety four to two thousand eight, they started with about five hundred organizations and seven hundred building projects, ranging from four million dollars to three hundred fifty five million dollars. We’ll talk about the lessons from that research and turn supporters into honorees. Pretty davidson, a speaker at fund-raising day two thousand twelve, shares her methods for identifying, asking, setting expectations for working amicably with and following up with your event honorees. She’s, director of development at the legal aid society between the guests on tony’s take two one hundred show winners and some stand up comedy videos that’s what’s on my block this week and we’ll have a short clip for you of the latter stand up comedy use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter right now, we take a break and when we return, i’ll be with joanna veronica vich and we’ll talk about the study of cultural building, bust or boom from university of chicago’s cultural policy center will stay with me co-branding think tooting, getting thinking things you’re listening to the talking alternate network, get anything? Dahna good. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit. You hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m joined now by joanna veronica, bitch she’s, the lead author of set in stone building, america’s, new generation of cultural facilities nineteen, ninety four to two thousand eight she’s, an associate at the cultural policy center at the university of chicago. She studies trends in building cultural facilities and best practices for going forward. Joanna. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, tony it’s. A pleasure. What goes on over there at the cultural policy center at the university of chicago. Joanna, did we just lose joana? Sam joiner, are you there? You and i had this deep, insightful question about what goes on over there. My concern was that it might be ah, bunch of ivory tower academics thinking amongst themselves and nothing trickling down to the to the real world. But i i hope that she was going to dispel that she seems as she shy or we drop. We lost her she’s not shy, we lost her. Okay, well, the study that will will be talking about is one of building of museums, theaters and performing arts centers between nineteen, ninety four in two thousand eight. And we’re going to talk about what some of the aa markers of success are for those building projects and also what some of the red flags of potential problems are. As you might imagine, all these building projects don’t turn out quite the way always that boards of trustees imagine that they’re going to and the survey involved the research involved a lot of interviews with board members. Joanna, we have you back? Yes, i’m here. Ok. Ok. So we’re not sure what happened. I was just saying that, i hope. That the cultural policy center is not a place where a bunch of academics are talking to each other and nothing trickles down to the real world. That’s, that’s, that’s not that’s, not what’s happening there. Is it that’s? Certainly not what i want to make one of the major goals with the study in particular was to actually reach the field. So, you know, we had a long communications plan that went along with our research plan, and really the last six months have been devoted to figuring out how to reach the reach the field with our work. Okay, well, i’m sorry your spending time here because no one listens to this show, so this is squandering of your time. I’m sorry, but it’s too late. Now you’re committed. What? What does the cultural policy center do? Generally so generally, the cultural policy center is a joint initiative of both the hair school of public policy and nrc at the university of shots chicago, which nrc is one of the largest research institutions in this country over seventy years old, and started off with doing public opinion research and now the social science research. More generally, the cultural policy center than focused focuses specifically on research has as it has to do with thea arts and cultural sector, mainly non-profit organizations okay, and tell us what an o r c stands for so i can keep you out of jargon jail. Sure. So noor formally stands for the national opinion research center, which people know a little bit better of. Okay. All right, so these the research and the article that you are lead author of was set in stone. What was the method that you used to do the research on the’s cultural and performing arts? Well, these museums and theaters and performing arts centers? Well, this was really one of the the first systematic study of cultural building in the united states, and i think the word systematic because, you know, it was scientifically systematic, so we went through a variety of methods to make sure what we’re studying was representative of the non-profit our sector, yes, there was a number of steps that were involved. The first was really first getting a list of all construction projects of museums, theaters and performing arts centers that responded in the time period that we studied which again? Was nineteen, ninety four until two thousand eight way studied trends using that large list of of construction project. So that’s, where we came to conclusion such as there was more building going on in the south during that time period, there is also more performing arts center is being built, museums in cedars and some other conclusions that we came to. But but we also did with that list was we picked a representative sample of fifty six organisations in approximately six different cities across the united states that had a building project, and after we picked that sample, we interviewed a number of people with each organization that actually went through the building projects from beginning to end, to get details on the planning and building processes of these projects. And then, of course, we looked at those organizations, financial data as measures of outcomes for these projects. So you were you were given pretty pretty open access than to decision making and players involved in decision making. We definitely were, you know, our respondents were incredibly, they were way had a lot of really great participation, and i think one of the reasons being that we actually promised confidentiality to our respondents. So our respondents seems very much open to talking to us about how these processes actually took place. Okay, interesting. Now we have just about a minute before a break. Why do you think there’s there’s more building in the south than other parts of the country? Well, the main hypothesis and we’ve looked into this as well as because the south had less cultural facilities to begin, in a sense, they were playing catch up the other regions around the country. Ok? And you said this was the first study of its kind. There has never been a a scientific study of of outcomes in building, performing arts and arts and cultural centers. That’s, right? There have been smaller studies that have focused on the case studies, and then there have been other samples taken, but the’s samples usually are non representative. So we really tried teo stick to our methodology and making general conclusions that were representative of the entire our cultural sector. All right? And we’re gonna talk in more detail when we return after this break. Joanna veronica bitches with me and we’re talking about the study that she’s lead author of set in stone building. America’s, new generation of cultural facilities nineteen, ninety four to two thousand eight. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream. 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Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back. Before we dive back into this, i want to send out a little live listener love to ah, new brunswick, canada. Welcome and newport, north carolina. Welcome to both of you, there’s. Others, but that’s two so far. So, joanna, you had you did a lot of interviewing with people for representing the fifty six representative projects. Or was it all just sort of forensic and looking back? So we did a lot of interviewing. We interviewed approximately, i would say eighty people across those fifty six different organizations, so sometimes more than one person, it was mainly either the executive director or the board chair that way spoke to but way had to be sure that that person was around, right that’s, the beginning of the project and all the way through the end so we could get the entire story. We also wrote a series of case studies where we did probably about ten to fifteen interviews for each case, studies and those air available online as well with the report. And then we also did interviews with four hundred forty for organizations that did not have their own building projects, but we’re located in cities. Where there was a major building project and the purpose of those interviews were to see what the spillover effects of these types of projects are. Oh, so that’s what? You had over five hundred or you had five hundred interviews? Is that right? That’s? Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. So also then you had access to people in the communities? Not clearly, not only the charities that were involved. That’s exactly right? We really made a large attempt to speak to not only those people who were directly involved, but two people who we think might have been affected or might have had a different perspectives and those internal to the organization. And aren’t the community’s involved, or shouldn’t they be involved in assessing whether there’s a need for one of these ah, new facility of the type we’re talking about? Well, you know, that was exactly the question we were trying to get at, and we ask that question to not only the directors and board trustees that we spoke to involved in building processes, but way spoke to those organisations themselves, those external organizations to see if they have been contacted in, you know, in the planning stages. Of these building processes, i think a lot of the time there were sort of steps taken by the organization to make to reach out to the community, and that would include things like public forums and and other types of meetings and no feedback sessions and and then, you know, and there were actually attempt to speak to the arts community and seeing it, perhaps their collaboration, their partnerships available and pursuing these projects as well. And did you find that there was, ah, i don’t know how to describe just what i was there in your mind sufficient collaboration with the community partners at the feasibility study stage, so that was really one of the one of the conclusion we came to about best practices for going forward were based on what we saw in reaching out to the community, and we thought that those projects that actually did make a really attempt in getting feedback from the community and and listens to a point and were receptive to that feedback were projects that were much more successful and in those projects that either, you know, didn’t at all involved the community or didn’t didn’t really be receptive. Enough to the communities. Feedback. They had a harder time. They have a harder time after the project was open. Okay. And how did you define a successful project? It was one of probably the most difficult things that we did in the overall study was defined success. And so we ended up doing it a number of different ways. We had a lot of subjective measures of success that we actually had a sort of what we call it. Our expert review panel. Look at a lot of different data about each organization we studied, and then great success on its tail, kind of great, different dimensions of success on a scale. We also then looked at financial outcomes of these organizations and tried to get a good enough picture of after the project opened, what the finances looks like with the organization. So we gave ourselves a special that we studied organizations, that we could get financial data for at least five years out after the project opened. So those were those were definitely two ways that we categorize success with. All right. And so you talked about one of the markers of success being community involvement in the feasibility study stage. What’s, what’s what’s. Um, let’s. Talk about some others that would lead people to lead charities. Tohave ah, greater likelihood of a more of a positive outcome than not sure, you know way kind of identified four different dimensions that could lead to better, better projects down the line and one of those dimensions we call kind of the motivation for the project. And that includes really being able to decipher what’s an organizational need and what’s an organizational desire and and needs and desires, you know, already two very ambiguous terms to decipher between. But the way that we saw successful organizations decipher between the two that needed is clearly attached to demand assessment. So if you see demand increasing for your organization, then then it’s more likely that there’s a need for either better, more improved their larger facility. We also saw in terms of the motivation, those organizations that really clearly knew why the project is being built and how it related to their mission. We’re definitely much more successful down the line leadership with another dimension. So having a leader from right having the same leader start the project and then finish that project and making sure that before before the planning and building this place is definitely a vital to the project success and then way also looked at outcomes that was another dimension. And so we looked at sort of all of the ancillary revenue streams that organizations planned on having after the project opened, and we called that so we looked at essentially house flexible and nimble organizations could be in generating revenue, and then also in terms of outcomes we were those projects that were more successful also tended to really stick to the caps that they put on budgets in the planning and building processes. But most of the projects went way over budget, didn’t they? Over budget overtime? That’s right? Wasn’t eighty seven percent, eighty percent of project went over their initial budget, and and by large numbers to was it weren’t some of them to buy a factor of two? Yeah, but we did have some project over two hundred percent over their initial lodges budget s o and do we have any sense of we break that down and analyzed by that and look at what might have caused those projects that went way. Over budget to have to have been more likely to do so. Could you slice it that way? Definitely. We looked at that as well. And it was it was clearly so. One of the first reasons we call budgets really increase was that division of of the project in the beginning wasn’t as clear as it should have been. And so that’s what? We was sort of what you could call vision creased i mean, vision division kept on expanding, as i think, enthusiasm as an excitement kept on group growing with the project. But that was one reason. Okay, okay, you mentioned that something that would be likely to contribute to how you define a successful project was is that it is related to the mission. And that sounds a little bit like what you’re talking about now in mission creek. But but how does an organization start out with building a project, a concept that isn’t related to their mission? What does that look like? Well, a lot of the time, the reasons for these projects are our external to the organization. A lot of the time, you know, we saw organizations decided to build not because it was necessarily related to their mission, but because, you know certain members of the community or the board thought it would be a good idea for let’s, say economic development reasons or something like that. So it wasn’t directly attached to the organization. I think a lot of the time organizations and into trouble when that was the case, i see, ok on dh, you also talk about the the they’re being ah it’s more likely to be successful there’s increasing demand, which would sort of counter act the the ego factor, right? I mean, it wouldn’t every cultural organization like to have a brand new, spiffy building and, you know, it’s tens of thousands of square feet or something, but we have to overcome that ego and focus on some real numbers, right? I mean, you know, that’s, probably one of the most interesting elements of our facilities project is that they’re very much projects passion, a lot of the time and a lot of the time, those people who have the idea for the project, i mean, are really passionate about seeing it through because their patches passionate about their art form, passionate about their organization and which, you know, is is truly great. However, you know, the reason that we really went forward with this study was because in a way, way wanted teo see what rational elements we could pull out of this process and what rational elements we could bring to the table in for future projects. Because, you know, even though passion move the project, you really do have to think about the nuts and bolts of what’s actually going to be feasible. Down the line. Joanna veronica bitches with me she’s associate at the cultural policy center at the university of chicago and lead author of their study of building between nineteen, ninety four and two thousand eight among cultural institutions, what are some of the the markers of difficulty or sort of red flags? Well, way one of the other definitely one of the other elements in-kind sweet study was sort of what we called, how difficult the process ended up being. And, you know, they’re clear markers such as lawsuits and things like that, that i think anybody would agree that our elements of of difficulty, i mean, but really, it really had to do with, you know, a lot. Of the markers of difficult project had to do with all of the markers of success. So kind of if you think about the opposite so good earlier, right, that, you know, you needed leadership. The same leadership from the beginning into the end. Well, those projects that had a lot of turnover and executive leadership definitely had a tougher time down the line. Okay, so essentially the negatives of the success markers. That’s, right? Ok. Ok. I’m always interested in feasibility studies on dh because i think a lot of times that the organization that does the feasibility study has an interest in carrying on the work. So they want to have that they want to give a positive, um ah, positive projection to the charity so that they’ll be hired toe actually carry on the work. And i think that conflict exists a lot in campaign fund-raising feasibility studies. Do you think that exists here? Are there are there the same entities doing doing feasibility that also would carry the project through if if a project resulted? Yeah. You know, the feasibility studies are a good idea. And we saw our organizations do them. I mean, i almost every organizations we studied had a fund-raising feasibility study or community development feasibility study, but, you know, often often we the feasibility studies were useful for the organisation, but we also saw instances where if the feasibility study came back and didn’t give the results of the organization wanted, and sometimes we would be an organization, you get another feasibility study. Really? Oh, really, i did that with therapists therapist tells me something i don’t like. I just find a new therapist, but so organizations of doing that with their feasibility studies, some some are some are some are definitely not a general and general occurrence, but we did see a couple of instances. Okay? All right, well, that’s very disconcerting. Actually, we have just a couple of minutes left, and i’d like to just explore with you. Why? On a personal level? What? What motivates you about this research? Well, you know, funny now that you ask me this and it’s been part of my life for six or seven years now, and i wasn’t even it doesn’t even i can’t even remember how i got into it because it’s such a large part of my life now, honestly it comes from it. First comes from my love of the arts, and i’ve been in in the arts in some integral way, either working as an arts administrator, as an artist, as a a narc policy analyst sometime in my life, since i can remember that really does comes from my love for the art, and second to that i mean, because i do really value what the arts and culture contribute to society. I i do, and i’m very interested in sort of how to preserve the health of the sector as well, so that i would say probably what drives me to do all of this working honestly, it’s it’s incredibly interesting. I don’t know how you can not be interested in in all of the stories we got to hear this study and all of the great people that we met not an ivory tower academic at the university of chicago’s cultural policy center joanna veronica vich thank you very much. Thank you, it’s. Been a pleasure having you as a guest right now we take a break. And when we returned to tony’s, take two a little bit about last week’s show and a standup. Comedy clip. Stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been. Radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks band radio. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Money, time, happiness, success, where’s, your breakthrough. Join me, nora simpson, as i bring you re a world tools for combining financial smarts with spiritual purpose. As a consultant to ceos, i’ve helped produce clear, measurable financial results while expanding integrity, passion and joy. Share my journey as we apply the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment. To create breakthroughs for people across the world. The people of creation nation listened to norah simpson’s creation nation. Fridays at twelve noon eastern on talking alternative dot com buy-in hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com zoho. Welcome back, some live listener love shoutout to nan you at new york and antelope california welcome, it’s time now for tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour on my block this week, you’ll find a list of the winners from last week’s sorry from the one two weeks ago, the one hundredth show. Two weeks ago we gave away on our of free consulting and some books and t shirts, and those winners were listed on my block, but also there’s a couple of stand up comedy clips, too short ones from a gig that i did at the gotham comedy club back in january. And the reason that was on my mind is because i just did a gig last wednesday night at the gotham comedy club also, so i thought i would put a few clips on my blogged from the january gig, and i’m going to play one for you, right? Ah, yes, right now to get into law school. Or are there any lawyers clap? If you’re a lawyer and willing to do cool, you know, to get into law school, you have to take the law school admission test there’s. A part on this test. I could never get my mind around. Logical reasoning. There are eight red flags and six green flag. Each person can hold one or two flags there’s, an odd number of women and an even number of men seated around a rectangular table. Who ate the hut door for lunch? Okay, a little clip from last january this past january of gotham comedy club and there’s another clip on my block, which you’ll find at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, july twenty seventh. Right now, i have a pre recorded interview from fund-raising day back in june, a couple of months ago with priti davidson about turning supporters into event honorees. Here’s that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand twelve in new york city were at the marriott marquis hotel in times square with me now is pretty davidson, and she is the director of development for the legal aid society of new york. Pretty welcome. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Thank you for taking time out on a very busy day. Your topic is converting supporters into event leaders. What type of leaders are you thinking about? We do one major fund-raising event every year. It’s, a corporate fundraiser for about a thousand people at the waldorf historia in every may on dh we have two honorees we do and one honoree from the legal community and one from the corporate community. The legal aid society is the oldest and largest not-for-profits public law firm in the country, and we have an extensive board made up of representatives from the top law firms in the country as well with headquarters in new york andare board is incredibly active, so generally we pick our legal honoree first, and it comes from our homegrown community of, um, from the legal community, okay, but i don’t see any reason to believe why this wouldn’t work for charities that have smaller galas and events resolutely your model, but what we’ve done this for? Well, well, well, we’ve done this event for thirty five years on dh i think in the last couple of years, what we’ve done differently is we’ve added a corporate honoree to try to expand our donor base from the legal community, broaden it to the corporate community and also you gonna fundez foundation fund-raising programming an individual donor program as well. Ok, now you’ve mentioned before we started that your model is different than traditional models, how is that? Back-up i think i think one thing that sets us apart is the deep roots that we have within the legal community there. Is no other charity that has the kind of commitment and the backing of the legal community that give us about close in nine million dollars a year, and so that those air relationships that some of them are over one hundred years old and those air very long term relationships that aren’t necessarily easily replicated owners who are over a hundred years the law firm’s air that, yes, the yes, some of our relationships with the firms are many, many years old, so we benefit from those long lasting relationships and are incredibly active board helps us pick our legal honoree on dh then we work closely with our with the legal honoree and with with the board again to to pick a corporate honoring, and we found that the model that works best is when the corporate honoree has some sort of a relationship to the legal honoree. Okay, so there’s a relationship there? Professional relationship, professional relationship. We’re able to leverage the relationship between the society and the honorees, thie honorees and their communities and their business communities in order to raise a cz much money is going on. Event leader, a gala leader, a leader of a gala of this sort could also be the chair doesn’t necessarily have to be the honoree. You include that the event chair in in your in your work, we do have a chair structure, we have chairs, vice chairs, we have a dinner committee and those air tied to giving levels, especially at the vice chair and dinner committee level dinner committee is anyone affiliated with a firmer corporation gives us ten thousand dollars in over or an individual and the vice chairs or twenty five thousand dollars, and over generally these air connected to our board, most of our board firms give it those leadership levels. Thie chairs are chosen in a number of ways. Thie honorees have an opportunity to pictures of their own on dh, then chairs are also appointed by the firms or the corporations that give it the highest levels. That would be the fifty hundred, one hundred fifty thousand dollar range on, and then we have honorary chairs, which our chairs in name only. Generally, they, they add, they bring a certain cachet to the events that usually very recognizable name, publicly recognizable name, but even around the honorary chairs is their expectations. About e-giving in a certain level, or or bringing a certain number of tables to the event? No, there is absolutely no expectation with the honorary chairs, their their their relationships that are held very closely, but by our honorees. And but i would say that in general honore teachers after the event will come back and make a gift to society in honor of the person. Okay, so what’s your advice about identifying the right people to be the the honorary arteries. So this is also where we’ve taken a little bit of a different approach, which i’m hoping will will will become more popular because it’s worked very well for us. We’re not looking for household names were not necessarily looking for people who everybody is going to be. Everybody would recognize if they looked at the invitation. We’re looking for people who are committed to raising money for us in the year that they’re being honored and we’re looking for people who may not have been necessarily honored in the past or sometimes over honored when lists air used over and over again, you go to the same well of people, you go to the same contacts. You don’t necessarily yield the best results, and i think they’re definitely unit new york is a really multifarious place, with many, many very successful people from different walks of life, and we’re thinking outside of the box when it comes to our corporate honorees and not necessarily looking for the name recognition, but looking for someone who’s really willing to roll up their sleeves and help us, the commitment is more important absolutely go absolutely and were very clear from the get go. What? What the expectations are what the commitment. Very next question. So how do you set the first? How do you determine what the expectations should be from honoree dahna region that that may vary from year to year? It does. So this is our our primary about this is this is the main event way did too. In the past and as many organizations have done, we scale backto one. And we put all of our resource is all of our staff time, all of our energy into this one event, and we have every reason because, yes, it is absolutely due to the reception recession excuse me? And it was probably about four years. Ago? Um, i’ve been at the legal aid society for three years, and i’ve i’ve helped oversee three dinners the first year was was very successful in my tenure because our new president, finn fog, became incredibly involved with this process, and i have to say that the fund-raising actually comes from our internal leadership. Our president are the chair of our board, our attorney in chief, members of our board are out there fund-raising forest constant that’s critical, and everybody doesn’t enjoy that they’d like to, but everybody doesn’t have that. This is one of the most active boards that i’ve ever professionally been involved with. So how about the the expectation setting for the honorees? So, it’s s o, i’m sorry to interrupt your sorry you’re setting the expectation at the point where you’re inviting to be an honor before they absolutely get it before they’ve except okay, so our model is is what is basically we’re looking for the trifecta the society raises a third, the corporate honoree raises the third in the legal on honoree raises a certain man, and this is this is not necessarily a strategy that that way set out with its one. That’s developed over the last three years, so in that first year we’re able to take this event used to raise just about a million dollars. In that first year, we’re able to raise two point, four million dollars with and that was the year that that set the tone for this model. So when we sit down with perspective, honorees and it’s generally not ah, host of leadership going to talk to that honoree it’s generally the person holding the closest relationship okay, the one on one conversation and were very clear about what the expectations aren’t it’s somewhere between eight hundred thousand and a million dollars and the and the expectations are in writing, the expectations were are not in writing during the point of where, when the commitment is being made afterwards, we do follow-up with very detailed timelines, and we cried a lot of administrative support. Another thing that’s been really crucial is that the honorees in the last three years have set aside some of their personal staff to help us so that we always have a lease on in their office and we’re working very, very closely and and quite seamlessly on this project. With them okay, okay are the expectations just about that money, but but not into sharing contacts and contact lists and vendor lists and things like the vendor? Listen, the contactless the business and personal contact lists are made available to us by the honorees. They’re sort of the expectations. It is definitely part of the expectation. It’s it’s the road map to how we raise that that kind of money, the other thing that we looked at very closely is where the common relationships, where the two honorees have a relationship in common, either with an individual, a firmer corporation or where the trifecta works really well is when all three of us have interest in the same entity, okay? And as you’re inviting people to be the honoree because they haven’t accepted yet, we’re still just setting the expectations. How do you explain that there’s benefit for them? A cz being honoree to be honored? I think the legal aid society is an incredibly prestigious and well known organization. We have a very, very prestigious board on dso. We’re talking about people who are asking other important business people to participate with them. An adventure that serves new york city there are over two million people living at or below the poverty line in new york city, and we address many incredibly crucial issues for them, and i think that our reputation is really well known. We have not had a problem so on then for smaller charities mean, what they might do is emphasize the value of their work, their niche that they serve in the community and help the honoree recognize that being allied with that level of with that type of work is valuable because we’re talking about someone who’s already committed to the organization and its work. So just thinking, you know, if someone doesn’t enjoy the reputation that legal aid society does it’s it’s really emphasizing your work and the of the alliance between the person or the corporate and or the corporation? Well, thunders generally want to help solve problems. So even for ah, smaller organization if if you’re able to make the case for for why your relevant why you’re crucial to whatever community or in larger small, i think of thunder is going to pay attention um, and and and i think funders are also interested in helping to raise the profile of worthy causes and using their name recognition in order to do that as well. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems block a little? Help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. How’s your game. I want to improve your performance, focus and motivation. Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop. Second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level. Bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it aspire, athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Talking. Hyre right? So the next step let’s say the person has agreed they’ll be the honoree. What what happens now comes the sharing of the timeline and on dh support begins we we actually actually, prior to that joint during the courting phase, we prepare a packet of materials that includes the videos we do a video every year for for this dinner, some years it highlights clients and case studies some other years it highlights sort of our more are broader impact and some of the larger issues that may not that we may not be known for in the communities bond, so that that packet of information helps kind of situate the individual, especially the one from the corporate community, because they aren’t as familiar with our work is the legal community is on. Then, after they’ve made the commitment we set up, we usually do a breakfast to introduce them to our leadership are the chair of our board of our development committee, myself and my mind top person, the president and the attorney in chief. Way more to get to know you breakfast. I generally like to go and meet with their office on by people who are going to be on the ground face-to-face relationship that isn’t just by phone and e mail it’s absolutely crucial att some point and sometimes it’s it’s not always possible, but where possible i highly recommend it. I also think that you won’t have actually becoming what you worked very closely with them and friendly enjoy a close and friendly working relationship. And i think at the end of it, we all sort of breathe a sigh of relief because there definitely ups and downs and and and we’re kind of in it together in the trenches. And how soon before how early before a kn event do you begin the process? Thie well, so we just had our event on may tenth, and i think that night we started talking about next year s o we try to waste no time it’s not always possible. We try to get our honorees securities soon as possible, ideally before the end of the summer for, um, a event would would be great. We would do ah first round of letters that fall to their contactless. We also have the process when we when we when we obtain the contact list that we’ve to get it into our system and so there’s there’s um data entry involved there on preparing ourselves administratively to be able to handle the workload at some point in in either early december, before before the season hits or or if for whatever reason, were delayed in early january, we do a save the date, okay on dh, then we send way send directed solicitation letters to a number of people that we identify on the three list, the society’s list and the two honoree lists after that way do a lot of leg work, it’s a lot of getting in front of people and calling her contacts and keeping track of who’s calling who? So we’re not when, when their interests, when we’re interested in the same prospect that we’re not, we’re not double calling, right, right? Because between the three of you, that could be overlap, and it was a lot of other absolutely avoid that my office is responsible for making sure that coordinating all the efforts okay, onda about follow-up after the event with the chair with the sari with the with the honorees way, try to keep in in close contact with the honorees, to be perfectly honest, we could do better in this realm, and i think there’s a lot of non-profits that struggle with what to do after the dinner, clearly, with the honoree from our legal community, they will continue to sort of go back and be a part of that community. It’s it’s more of a challenge with a corporate honoree? They didn’t they didn’t come to us with with the relationship already established, and it is, i think, it’s naive to think that even though they did great work for us over the course of the year that we’re gonna have them as lifelong supporters, i think we’ve been very fortunate that we’ve had very generous honorees who continue to support the society after being honored, but we’re still we’re still trying to figure out how to continue to make that that connection beyond the event, we also has the best practice, you know, we will continue to communicate with people who came to the event and or made a gift to the event, but we don’t circulate. We don’t we don’t their lists don’t get absorbed into our database unless the person has has shown interest in being involved in some custody, and when you’re in the heat of the event, thes air may events so in early mayor mid may well, end of may will give me ten it’s really bad. All right, so so hyre mid april, too late april what’s what’s keeping you up, what’s what’s really the most one or two things that you’re most concerned about, right? Two to three weeks before you know, we we do, we do a lot of our fund-raising on the front end, it’s incredibly important, and i think part of the secret to our success, that and a best practice in fund-raising that we’ve been able to get, i’d say two thirds to three quarters were fund-raising done before the invitation goes out, so not stressing about about hitting the goal at that point, i think that they’re r i think the stress and legwork comes over the course of january, february and march, where we’re doing the bulk of the solicitation and fund-raising in order to get the names on the invite, and then we found that first year we raised, i think it was one point three million or one point, four million dollars. Before the invite went out in eight hundred thousand dollars, came in after that, i think people want to be a part of a success, and success breeds success and we could use the money. Ok, but so what is it now? I’m gonna ask you again, what a couple of weeks, two or three weeks before, what is it that’s keeping you awake? Details it’s, you know, seating a thousand people for dinner is not easy there constant changes getting those lists, getting guests lists to come. I mean, there there are people there last minute changes that happened an hour before the event and making sure that our ducks in a row but i have to say that i’m not stressing anymore. This is our third my third year of doing this with it, with a great team and with a great with great invent consultants, we use susan ulan associates, they’re fantastic and i’m not stressing actually go in the weeks before the event and this year actually enjoyed the event xero which was a first for me and all right, so why did you leave listeners with just one tip? If you have to say there’s one thing that they really should take away from converting the there there’s serious, they’re they’re hyre level donors and committed people, too. Two honoree, what would that be? Well, i think that we’re very fortunate that philanthropy is very much a part of american culture and it’s been ingrained in all of us at some point to be involved in our communities and give back i thinkit’s a deeply american construct, and i feel that, you know, converting a leadership into honorees is a process. It takes time and it’s a process that it’s again it’s, another level of relationship building that, you know, if we’re able to make the compelling arguments to an outside audience, that we know why our organization’s make a difference in this world, that message is very clear, and i think that there’s a lot of people were incredibly receptive to that. So while it might take a little bit of time if it’s done the right way, you’ll have lasting results. Thank you very much. Pretty davidson is director of development for the legal aid society of new york. Been a pleasure having you as a guest. Thankyou. Thankyou, tony. My pleasure, tony. Martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand twelve at the marriott marquis in new york city my thanks too pretty and also the organizer’s of fund-raising day and, of course, also to joanna veronica vich i hope you’ll be with me next week. I hope you’ll be listening next week. It’s audit week you’re hr owed it starts off karen bradunas human resource is consultant returns to the show there may be things hiding in your hr closet that you need to bring out and dust off to avoid problems later on, we’ll talk about your benefits, plan immigration, paperwork and that’s not only for immigrants and what to do if you get audited by federal or state regulators and then your social media audit, scott koegler continues our discussion from the one hundredth show on sites that help you assess how you’re doing in social media sites like hoot suite market me sweet and radiant. Six scott’s the editor of non-profit technology news and our regular tech contributor. We’re all over social media you can’t make a click without sparkle a testa it’s a tony martignetti non-profit radio means you can’t make a quick without smacking your head into us, but today, just focus on linkedin linked in group is probably a couple of months old now. Next time you’re on linked in for podcast listeners, please join the group comment on the show or there’s also an active discussion going on now about about social media so it doesn’t have to it’s not limited to subjects on this show. Please join the linked in group and i want to start wishing you good luck and good fortune in the words of artists throughout the world and this week i’m starting with italian in boca lupo, which means in the mouth of the wolf, and you would say that to someone as just as they’re going on stage in italy. In boca lupo, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I very much hope you’ll be listening. Listening next week or the week will be on friday one to two p m eastern at talking alternative dot com in bocca al lupo i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Dahna
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Tony’s guests this week:
Susan Gordon, director of nonprofit services at Causes.com
Jen Shang, assistant professor at the Center on Philanthropy at Indiana University
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio on friday, may eighteenth, twenty twelve i’m your aptly named host, we’re talking as always about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. My thanks to nora simpson, the host before me on dh congratulations to her for her inaugural show creation nation. You’ll hear her noon to one here on talking alternative and also my thanks to delphine blew at w b a i fm here in new york city. I was just on her show between ten and and noon her show is shocking blue on w b a i which you’ll find at wgbh dot or ge and we were talking about fund-raising and we got her ah, good gift, good pledge thousand dollar pledge while we were on so my thanks to delphine for having me on her show, i hope you were with me on my show last week because i’d be deeply hurt if i found out that you had missed budget building basics and what to do when the donor dies. Budget building basics was with paul connick stein of mission first finance, and he had five steps to construct a budget your critical financial and program planning tool we also talked about how to use your budget throughout the year and what to do when the donor dies. That was aviva schiff, aviva benwikere. The legal notice is staring at you, telling you that a planned e-giving donor has died. Now what? Aviva is senior consultant at the sharp group, and she answered that question this week causes dot com susan gordon, director of non-profit services at causes dot com shares how this resource for charities and individuals helps draw people to your work through action campaigns. The site is smart, easy and free. Five words to better fund-raising gen shang is a professor at the centre on philanthropy at indiana university. She’s a philanthropic psychologist, we’ll talk about what that means. Her research has found five words that can raise your telemarketing revenue between the guests. It’s tony’s take to what i believe i have two very strong beliefs that motivate this show and all the content i create for non-profits and i’ll talk about those you want to join the conversation on twitter use hashtag non-profit radio we’re monitoring it here in the studio right now we take a break when we returned. I’ll be joined by susan gordon, and we’ll be talking about causes. Dot com, stay with me. They didn’t think that shooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network to get me anything. Good cubine money, time, happiness, success, where’s, your breakthrough join me, nora simpson, as i bring you real world tools for combining financial smarts with spiritual purpose. As a consultant to ceos, i’ve helped produce clear, measurable financial results while expanding integrity, passion and joy share my journey as we apply the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment to create breakthroughs for people across the world. The people of creation nation listened to norah simpson’s creation nation fridays at twelve noon eastern on talking alternative dot com. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. My guest now is susan gordon she’s, the director of non-profit services at causes dot com causes has over one hundred seventy five million users, twenty thousand non-profit partners and thousands of active collective action campaigns. She’s worked as a political organizer, communications specialist for women’s non-profit in cambodia and leader of a rural youth organization in new hampshire on twitter, she’s at susan gordo geo audio at susan gordo and i’m very pleased that causes dot com and her work there brings susan gordon to the show welcome, susan. Thank you so much, tony. Great thanks for having me on. Oh, it’s, my pleasure to have you i’m glad you’re with me. Um, tell us generally about causes dot com for people who don’t know absolutely so causes dot com is a platform where individuals and activists and organizers and non-profits of all budgets and sizes and issues can come to have the best online tools to run action campaigns. So we’ve been around for about five years now as a facebook application, but we’ve actually built out our own platform that lets individuals come on to our site create action campaigns, whether their petitions or pledges or video campaigns, or all of them, uh and get people involved through facebook through twitter and increased their supporter base and get more people taking action. And this is for not only organized charities, but also individuals, right? You said activists, absolutely yep, anybody can come on our site and create an action campaign, so we’ve had some of our best campaigns come from engage non-profit supporters non-profit employees and people who aren’t involved with organizations at all and just have a passion to see change in the world. They’re all about engagement, and we’ll be talking about that. What? What are what are action campaigns when you say that? What do you mean? So basically we wanted to create a way not just to have a community online, you know, we’ve been working on that for a long time. We’ve had over one hundred seventy five million people joined cause communities, but what are really benefit is for organizations and for organizer’s is to be able to get these people on line to take action, so we wanted teo, you know, we realised that to create riel change. In the world, we need to engage people on a different level and get people taking actions that you create a ladder of engagement. So maybe it’s a really easy online quiz at first, but you take a quiz, you watch a video, then you sign a pledge, and then maybe you move up to something like a petition or a fundraising campaign. But we realised that you really need to have that whole ladder of engagement for teo, bring people in where they are and then move them up to more impactful actions. So on causes, we have nine different campaign types, so you can just come on our site, create a cause and what you have the ability to do is post different types of action. So, as i mentioned, we have pledges so a pledge not to text and drive or a pledge to stop smoking. They’re our petition. So whether it’s ah, you know, local business or you know the government, you can create a really easy online petition and sway decision makers. That way there are storytelling campaigns where you can ask people to upload photos and videos around a certain topic. There are polls. Quizzes, video and photo campaigns where you could just engage people through, you know how many, you know, simple statistic like, you know, what’s, the most common type of debris found on our beaches today? Teo, you know, polls what? You know what? What campaign should we focus on for the next year and gather you no feedback from your supporter based so there’s all these different campaign types, but it makes it really easy to create a different types of online action campaigns around whatever campaign you’re trying to run, and these can be very cleverly used to also inform as well as to gather information. I saw one that said what? I don’t remember what the cause was, but what bothers you most, and there were some things about there were some stats about vehicles that i think four out of five parents don’t use car seats correctly or on there was something else about maybe texting and driving. And so it’s it’s a poll that sounds like a simple pole to mae could be used as information as well a as education as well as gathering information back exactly, and we found for particularly for a lot. Of small non-profits you know, they set up a facebook page or a twitter handle, and we’re you know, they reached a certain point, a kind of plateau of how many people had, you know, just sort of find up to receive messages from their organization, and they’re really looking for a different way of of engaging people and it’s not just about, you know, sign up for my facebook page, it’s really, about how do i get more people to come together around the issue that i’m working on? So maybe they’ll get connected to your organization through a simple pole or a quiz about the issue that you’re working on, so it really helps kind of break out of that just sign up for us to sign up for us and really allows non-profits, too, build a community and build support around the issues that they’re working on, and then whether it’s a fundraising campaign or it’s a petition, you know, signature drive, you’ve got you brought a whole new audience people in through the work that you’re doing, and we found that it’s a lot easier for a lot of small organizations to find new people that they may not have been connected to before, but that are really interested in the issue that they’re working on you mentioned earlier the latter of engagement, which is essentially what you’re what you’re describing, wei have just about two minutes before our before ah break what you say little about storytelling as an action campaign. What do people do around that? Yeah, so great example is actually if you go to causes dot com slash bully stories it’s just an example of how one organization is using this this feature, but basically we built a really easy technical way for you just to create you say post in action share stories, and you ask your members teo, to share stories, and they can upload videos and photos and stories on a topic that you asked them tio and so for this example on the bully project, movie was looking for a way to get people to share their own stories, that they were putting a lot about a lot of content, but they wanted their supporters and sort of people interested in the movie teo upload their stories of how they’ve been bullied or their messages of support for people who had been both and i can tell my makes it, you know, they just send him to cause the dot com crash bully stories, and we make it really easy for people to record videos on their computers or to upload photos or just type in a story. So that’s, one way that it’s being used is it was sort of motivated by this ninety nine percent tumbler blawg where you had people holding up signs that say, you know, i stand with the ninety nine percent, so it makes that type of campaign really easy, but also we were really interesting campaigns that conf fit right with whatever you’re non-profit is doing so let’s say, you’re doing a campaign to get more people to go into the national parks with kids. Well, you could create a storytelling campaign that just says, you know, upload a photo of yourself in the park and will, you know, give a prize toe one random person that uploads their photo so it can be sort of a way to either, uh, see evidence of people taking action or doing a really simple, you know, hold up a sign and support campaign. Or it can be a real storytelling campaign. So whether it’s police think, how is this hospital affected your life? Or tell us about your experiences with the disease or tell us, you know, give us your message about why you want to stop big oil, whatever it is that makes this storytelling sort of gathering content from supporters is an user generated content really easy. Okay, susan, we have to take a break when we return. We’ll susan gordon, of course, is dot com will stay with me, and i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, this is second medium betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free second reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com this is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas, and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com if you have big ideas and an average budget tune into the way above average tony martin. Any non-profit radio ideo, i’m jonah helper from next-gen charity. Welcome back. I’m talking with susan gordon at of causes dot com, and we’re sharing this resource with you so that you can become acquainted with it and start your own action campaign or campaigns on causes dot com susan, i saw one organization, lgbtq rights, as about twenty, five hundred campaigns. Yes, we have a wide a very, very wide audience of those organizations and organizer’s that are using our tools so you can create as many action campaigns as you want. And so it’s really exciting for aa lot of orga ruminations who have been either building intense, really expensive micro sites or paying developers to come up with a lot of really unique, different types of functionality into their web site to be able to just have a free resource that comes on and you can create these beautiful online pages that are incredibly engaging and then pushed them out through facebook through twitter, through your email list, wherever your supporters are it really we’ve got a lot of organizations that have been creating a lot of different campaigns and and frequently creating lots of different types of actions that plug into all their different campaigns, so let’s talk about how a charity gets started. I know that one of your precepts is that this be simple to use, you don’t have to be technically savvy in order to in order to set up at causes dot com, how does the charity get started? Absolutely so you just go to causes dot com on when you go to that site, you’ll be able to see some some examples of of other campaigns that people are running just to give you an idea of what these things look like and how it works. But you just go to causes that common at the top, uh, you’ll see a button that says start a cause, so if you don’t have a cause already, it takes about two seconds to create, and it basically just gives a sort of campaign hub or a kind of community page that you can post all these actions. Teo so once you started cause, you’ll see a big button at the middle of the page that says post in action, and when you click that it will give you all of our different action tights. And so those are the nine those the nine different types of activities exactly. So you just click post in action, then you’ve got your options for pledges, petitions, video campaigns, etcetera on dh soon you’ll also be ableto at the top. Just either start a cause or just post in action directly, so if you don’t want a community page, you don’t want multiple actions. You just want to start a petition. You’ll also be able to do that too. Okay? And associated with your action campaign there’s a way of people finding mohr information about your work. How does that work? How do you send people elsewhere? That’s a great, great question. So on the page itself so let’s say you have a pledge or you have a quiz. And through taking the quiz you don’t just want people to know about, you know, the you know, whats that statistic about, you know, child safety you really would like them to tow. Connect with other resource is in a part of the bigger campaign. Well, there are a couple ways to do that. One is to include more information. Write on that page itself so on, sort of the information or more info section of the quiz. But the other thing that cause allows you to do is post an update. Everyone who’s taken an action so let’s say you get two thousand people to take this action about child safety. Fantastic. There will be a big button on that action that says posting updates and it allows you to actually email to people’s personal email addresses on update to the action so you can post one, you know, week after they take it that says, you know, thanks so much for taking our quiz about child safety. Now will you sign our petition to lobby the government to make new laws about this topic and so you can plug your next action or tell them how else they can get involved? Whether it’s volunteering or attending an event just connecting with you in different ways, you can post an update to everybody who take that action, send him an email and say, give him an update on how that’s going, but also howto how to take other actions with your organization. And this is all done through the site, right? Exactly. Yes, we built out a whole e mail system, so it makes it really easy. Okay, so somebody does not have to be an email programmer or an html programmer to have this these very robust tools, right? This is this is very simple, absolutely up. You’ll see on every action page a button that says post an update, you just type it in and we’ll email it to everybody. Who’s taken that action for you. Okay, okay, you also have integration with twitter and facebook. What did you say little about those? Yes, well, our facebook integration is actually what made causes works so well. I mean, we have individuals who, you know, are college students that create campaigns. One of our favorite examples is a is a medical student named eric ding who was really passionate about cancer prevention and was getting some of the deaths, cancer research, access to this incredible research by being at med school, but he wanted to share that with a larger audience, and so he wanted to gather people together and then to be able to send them this great information about cancer research. So, again, not your sexiest topic it’s something that in the past, a lot of research organizations and hospitals have struggled with how to use social media, but eric just came onto our site, created a cause, called the campaign for cancer prevention and went out and tried to tell all of his friends about it, and he posted them, posted it on flyers and break rooms, and he told his friends, and he e mailed his aunts and uncles, and he called his parents and said, you know, join, join this online community, and we’re going toe i’m gonna send you some really great information about cancer prevention, and through our the facebook integration on causes is really how his movement grew. So he recruited three hundred seventy two people to join the cause, and they recruited their friends and they recruited their friends and they recruited their friends, and eric now has six point one million people in his car that’s incredible that’s another thing i don’t really he got three hundred seventy five directly and then over six million through through those exactly that’s incredible, the way that that works is that we have plugged in ah, an incredibly deep facebook integration with all of these actions. So basically, whenever you sign a petition or you take a pledge or you take one of these quizzes, it’s automatically getting sent to your news feed. So when your friends signed onto facebook, they see, oh, susan just took a quiz about child safety laws. Ah, and they can see and take the quiz as well. So that type of integration has been incredibly important to getting more people to take the action that you posed thie other part of that is that we actually give you a list of all your facebook friends and say, now that you took this quiz, which of your other friends do you think would want to take the quiz to? And so you can just click and, you know, pick any of your friends on facebook and when you click, okay, you can type a message, and that invitation appears right on their facebook profile, so they find into facebook they get a buzz on their smartphone there’s a ton of ways that they’re going to go back to their facebook profile. See, oh, tony, you know, just sent me this quiz. I wonder what it is and then find out about it as well. Now i have to tell you on tony martignetti non-profit radio we have a full disclosure policy. Are you being personally enriched by the facebook initial public offering today? No, i’m not your not your, not your not okay, so it doesn’t matter to you what the share price of what the facebook share price closes that today exactly causes a completely separate company from facebook, so has nothing to do with it, and we’re actually just building on the place the facebook platform okay? And you personally or not being enriched, i am not ok, ok, good. Alright, so say more about facebook and twitter integration, please. Yeah, so so basically this way, the two sort of sites of facebook integration, which is one when you take the actions it’s being posted to your facebook news feed and then the second is that you can send the invitations right to your friends through facebook and it appears on their facebook provoc girl, these two types of integration have been the way that these these actions have been spreading, so the reason that eric was able to get six point one million people to join his cause was that, uh, was through these sort of friends telling friends, telling friends and we at causes have made that incredibly easy. And so for a lot of organizations, the exciting part is that as you get your supporters to take one of these actions, you know, you’ll be, you know, start telling your usual people about this. So whether it’s sending an email to your email lists are posting it to your facebook page or twitter what’s exciting is that when your supporters take this action, they are automatically going to be spreading it to their friends and their networks, and so we’re seeing about a thirty two, fifty percent pick up on different campaigns. You’re going to get fifty percent more people way actually just had a campaign that ran on causes that got forty seven percent of the people who came in through ah, take their campaign kayman just threw this facebook and agree. Agent susan gordon is the director of non-profit services at causes dot com and that’s, the site we’re talking about how robust, rich, easy, simple and this is all free, right? There’s, no charge to charities or individual activists. Exactly there’s absolutely no charge. You can create as many of these campaigns as you like, and all of these tools, they’re free, okay, let’s say a little bit about fund-raising campaigns, that’s one of your nine action action possibilities what what? What can be done around fund-raising specifically, of course, i want listeners to understand the latter of engagement that susan talked about his ultimately, the hope is that this will lead to fund-raising but there’s a lot of richness to be gained and shared before you get too fund-raising but but, susan, what if somebody wants tohave specifically, a fundraising campaign on causes dot com absolutely fund-raising is an incredibly important part of what we what we do on causes, and we’ve spent a lot of resources over the past couple years trying to plug these types of campaigns on make him work for fund-raising so when someone donates on causes, how do their friends see it? How did they ask their friends to donate as well? And how did they we create a rich sort of social experience around donating to ah, to a non-profit so they’re there to ways that we’ve done that. The first one is that a fundraising campaign is one of our non nine action types, so as i was saying you can, you know, post a quiz and then post a pledge and then post a fund-raising project, and so we created a really beautiful online page where you can add media, so photos and videos about what you’re raising money for. You can add donorsearch choices that say, you know, twenty five dollars, will send a kid to school for two months, you can sort of create a really great story around what it is that you’re funding. You could also absolutely raise money for unrestricted funds, which is, you know, just put up, please donate to our non-profit and add photos and videos of what you d’oh so they could be restricted funds or not, unrestricted funds it’s completely up to you, but you can tell a story about what they’re what you’re raising money for and put it up right on your cause with these different types of action campaigns, and you can create a campaign where you can, where the fund-raising element of it is that sort of where you’re leading to the whole time and, you know, it creates a great online page for you to send people to donate when they donate we’ve got a bunch of really neat things you can upload a thank you video. We send them a thank you note right away. We use network for good to process our donations and so they’ll get a tax receipt right away. There’s a four point, five percent processing see from network for good causes doesn’t take anything on top of that, but basically network for goodwill. Then send your organization a checker and electronic funds transfer once a month. And so it’s. Totally seamless. You’ll just get that check once a month with all of the donations that come in through causes. Okay, okay. We don’t have only two minutes left before we have to. We have to wrap up. I saw. Donate your birthday on the site. What is that? Yes. So if you go toe wishes, dot causes dot com that is are what we call wishes which our personal fund-raising pages. So, uh, if you as an organization are looking for ways and easy way to ask your supporters toe, give them an online tool that they can fundraise for you. Causes is an incredibly powerful tool to use for that. We’ve had people, you know, regular. People just supporters of a non-profit raise, you know, many thousands of dollars for organizations so they can first they pick an event, so if it’s their birthday, if they’re doing a run or a walk, if they’re getting married, if they’re doing ah ah memorial for someone or just any reason they can create a personal fund-raising page, they can tell their friends and family or even upload a video explaining why they’re raising money for this organization and then individuals can donate and we’ve plugged in a bunch of facebook and twitter integrations and so that they can then tell their friends, hey, my friends raising money for this cause it’s really great on and help you do your fund-raising there’s also meet little features like cards where when someone donates, they can make you a card on right on that page tell you, good job for raising money. You’re happy birthday right on that page on, and it basically makes it a really easy way for your supporters to gather donations for your organization and so you can send anyone toe wishes dot causes dot com they just create that page, select your non-profit is what they’re raising money for and then they’ve got this great parents to send people to to fundrasing, the site is, causes dot com. Susan gordon is their director of non-profit services. We have to leave it there. Susan gordon, thank you so much for being a guest, tony, thank you so much for having me, it’s been a pleasure. You’re very welcome, my pleasure. Right now. We take a break when we returned tony’s take to stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Geever schnoll are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio it’s time now for tony’s, take two my block this week is what i believe i produce a lot of content for charities chief among them is this show my blawg, of course, a tony martignetti dot com i host fund-raising fundamentals, which is a podcast monthly feature for the chronicle of philanthropy. I do a lot of speaking and training i come into and news stories when i’m asked by journalists. So why do i do all this? Because the things that the thing that work that pays my bills is consulting, which i didn’t mention. I do that too, but all this other content that i produced, why do i do it? That’s? Because there are two things that i believe very strongly on dh that is, first, that small and midsize charity’s need to be better that aaron a lot of things measuring impact and outcomes and delivering programs buy-in fund-raising, of course, um, in their human resource is work and the marketing, communications, et cetera. And so i i believe that there’s a need to be much better in all those areas. Ah, and others. And second that charity’s deserve help to be better. I know that you’re working incredibly hard and maybe understaffed, maybe under budgeted, underfunded. So i think you deserve the help that you need to be better and those two things together or what? Dr me too produce the content that i do. That is what i believe and that’s. What motivates me? The block post is called what i believe and my blog’s that tony martignetti dot com also a reminder that we are on linked in, and i would love to have your feedback on the show if you’re listening. If a guest was particularly helpful to you dahna future show ideas, you’ll find us i’m linked in that is tony’s take two for friday, may eighteenth, the twentieth show of the year. I wish with me now is dr gen shang. Hello, jan, how are you? Good, how are you? I’m very well. Jen is an assistant professor at the centre on philanthropy at indiana university. She is a philanthropic psychologist. She’s been published in many journals, including experimental economics, economic journal, journal of marketing research and marketing science. Homework has also been covered in the new york times and the chronicle. Of philanthropy, and she is the author of the book fund-raising principles and practice, which is available at amazon dot com, and i’m very pleased that her research in her work brings to the show welcome, jim. Thank you. We’re talking about five words to better fund-raising what was the research that we’re talking about? Uh, it’s, uh, when we study how prime ing people’s idea of more identity come potentially influence, how they give on day when we say more identity, really, what we mend is how carrying kind, compassionate, helpful and friendly people think they are, okay? They’re us interesting. Their moral identity. Yeah. Okay. That’s the that’s. The research will let, uh, what was specifically how did you conduct the research? So this is when during public radio stations on air front drive. I’m sure your listeners are quite familiar with this form of fund-raising this was bloomington bloomington public radio in indiana, right? Yeah, yeah. That steering our billings in radio on their front driving ah, november, where they’re deejays kind of inter interrupt the programming and say things like, you know, here is that i remember and if you could give us this amount and here’s the thank you gifts so people call in and then half of the people who call in they are asked, you know, how are you a newer renew a member of the station? And then they’re thanked for either becoming or being a member of the station and the other half of the donors when they call in there asked exactly the same question, but when there are thanked there think for being kind and carrying member of the station were becoming a helpful and friendly member of the station. Schnoll okay, so what we found is that when people are think with those moral adjective, then they increase their giving, but this is only significant with female, but not mayo donors. Okay, let’s, let’s, be very clear. What are the five words that you used in your research is caring, compassionate, kind, friendly and helpful. Okay, that actually reminds me of the used to be a boy scout. I still have an eagle scout kayman eagle scout. This reminds me of if i didn’t mention i’m an eagle scout thiss reminds me of the scout law you didn’t know the boy scout law, probably unless you have boys. Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. So you’ve got you’ve got two or three of those in there? Yeah. Did you? Did you derive your your moral adjectives from the boy scout oath? I scott law. No law, not the oath. That’s, this is the law. Pardon me. This? Sure. Some off of the participants that participated in the orange inal study where these adjectives war generated they were members of the boy kapin. Okay, well, there could be some overlap, but we don’t know if that’s cause and effect that’s just that could just be coincidental. There were hundreds of people who were asked to list all possible adjectives they can possibly use to describe any moral person. And then we could. And the researchers off that really orange? No study collected the most often used adjectives by most people. Okay, i see. Those are the adjective that’s. How you came up with your caring, compassionate, friendly kind and helpful. You okay? Let’s. See, the the research is on ly, but only impacts females. Not so men are not influenced by the moral adjectives. Not the set that we not these five. Hopefully, they’re influenced by the scout law if their boy scouts, because otherwise it’s just don’t be a scout if you’re not going. Teo, reverent and helpful and courteous and kind and cheerful. Cheerful. So, um, but women are the majority of donors, isn’t that right? Yes. Two thirds ofthe most non-profit donors are female donors. Okay, so so using your research, we can impact two thirds of the giving population. Yeah, okay, so these people were thanked using one of the moral adjectives, but they hadn’t, but they hadn’t made their gift yet. So what were they thanked for? They were thanks for calling. Uh, as soon as they were called in. As soon as they call in there. Asked whether they want to be a new member ization or their existing member nation and there, thanks for either becoming a new member or being a member. Okay, so you thank for either being becoming or being a member or you thank for being or becoming a caring, compassionate, etcetera number. Ok, yeah. So do we know whether this applies to written solicitations? Well, we’re we’re currently testing different forms of recon communication and what we do there is you know, you mean one of the key things if people were to apply this technique is not the fact that, you know, they need to write down this five wars, but they need to engage people in thinking about these words. And i think one of the main reasons why our research turned out in the way that it did is because people were asked to answer a question first and that they’re thinking in response to what they think they are already. So when we apply these techniques in return context, what we had to ask people to do is not just to have kind carrying floating everywhere in the letter, but instead only on the renewal forms we want people to say i and then people find their name like gen shang, i wanted to give this much right. And then when i signed my gen shang am finding on those words you’re signing on those words what do you mean? Like they’re the words are below the below the line where you put your name? The words are actually in the in the box, in the background of that box where i started my name. Oh so there’s sort of shaded in the background exact, like a like a watermark. That’s, right? Ok, but this is research. You’re just testing this. You don’t have results from from this written written test yet. Well, actually, we we dio look at me. I’m way behind. Okay, but the result is that, you know, people see exactly the same thing. And half of the people are asked to print their name, almost words. And the other half, i asked to sign their name on those words, and we found a marginally statistically significant results. Where if people signed their name, they give more than if they printed their name on those words. Very interesting. But did you also did you also test that against there? Not being any words. Yes, it’s hyre than not having anymore. Okay, definitely. Just making that clear. Okay. Yeah. Okay, yeah, but but what’s important there is that when people sign their names, they’re more active in thinking about their identity, who they are. But when they simply print, they don’t think about being both kind and caring compassion. People asked much as if they signed that almost stamp their own it and the answer those words very interesting. That is very interesting. So so what’s really driving the effect we think at this point, it’s not necessarily that non-profit professionals know about those words, but they have to think of ways to tap into people’s sense of who they are and then leads those central sons of who they are into those morally, you know, promoted kind of product. What kind of increase in fund-raising did you see in your research? Well, in the first study, it was a ten percent increase in female donor, um and that’s average, you have to say about eighty seven dollars, in the control group where people are simply think and is about one hundred when people are thanked with moral awards and in this direct meaning that we just had it tested it’s about, like a five percent increase, they’re the average e-giving is much smaller because his christmas appeal so the average amount is like thirteen pounds and, um, you know, eighteen dollars, but then the the fact is about fifty upleaf about twenty dollars, okay? And also with women in the only only only an increase for women in the in the writing or that does that apply to men also in the written form that that that that’s okay, so men are not immoral? No, no, at least not in a written sense. Yeah, by no means that i think i’m just extrapolated i’m just taking a natural sametz seems like a natural conclusion for your research is that men in conversation are immoral. Well, not that that wouldn’t be how i know i know what i hope not know you’re. There is a more different it’s, a very different sense of saying something versus we were just not successful in bringing their own sense of morality to the front. So diplomats make a decision such a diplomatic, academic that’s beautiful, but really mentally moral no, of course, that’s an irrational conclusion. I really i think it is our failure on our part. So what we actually would like to test in the future is tap into moral values that male might be more likely to engage in, like, responsible, loyal, strong take leadership pride. Yeah, i think you’re i think you’re wasting your time with those just bein sports and cars i think is and booze, i think that’s where you really should be starting, you know, have a little budweiser icon that people sign and watermark, that people sign over that will that’s going to get that anheuser busch logo. You know those of this where you want to be, corvettes, you know, sign your name over this watermark of a corvette that will, i think, that’s, where you’re going to see market market change in mark changing giving, we need to take a break right now. Gen shang, assistant professor at the centre on philanthropy at indiana university, is going to stay with me. We’re going to keep talking about five words to better fund-raising stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been. Radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. This is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Talking all calm. Professor gen shang is with me. Jenn, you are a philanthropic psychologist. What is that? Yeah, well, it’s, i’m interested in studying why people do philanthropy and what, uh, doing a philosophy might do to their own life. You know what it might do to their own, like how it makes them feel how it makes them feel. How does that help them discover who they are defined their meaning in life? Okay. And it’s, not a field i’m acquainted with so hominy philanthropic psychologists are there. Well, i only know one of me, but i’m sure they’re so yeah, you had some of these. Have you had some campaign to systematically eliminate all the other philanthropic psychologists? Well, actually, i haven’t done so because i would rather their mohr. Okay, you’re not the violent academic at that. Maybe you were the the one percent violence academic, but that’s, not you. No, i was just you know, i was the first graduate of philanthropic phd from the canal philanthropy. In that sense, it’s, because the field didn’t exist aren’t annoying. Okay, out of the five people that we graduated already from that program, i was the only one who had a psychology background. Okay, yeah. There’s running through your research and you’ve mentioned it just obliquely a few times. I want to spend a little time on it is feeling better, feeling better about giving and and reinforcing one’s beliefs about themselves. So say, say so let’s talk about that. Yeah. So, for example, in this somewhere, i didn’t e-giving research what we did after we did. The experiment on the air is we send donorsearch survey and we asked them on the scale one tonight. How? Carrying. Actually, you think you are and then people silk road number like seven. And then we ask them, i’m on a scale of one tonight. How ideally would you like to become caring? And then people probably circle my i really, really want to become really, really caring. And then what we did is we calculate the difference between the two each we call more identities discrepancy. And then we link this number. Teo the same person’s contribution history to the same radio station. And what we found is that the more females give the smaller. This gap is between their actual and their ideal morally identity. But this relationship does not. Exist for males. So what this means is that the act of giving itself actually can potentially help female donors to rich. They’re more ideals and that’s. Great. Yes. To teo, get closer to what they believe of themselves already. Right? Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um, again, men out. Liars. You know, they don’t care how they feel. They don’t. They don’t have feelings. I don’t know what they’re thinking. They don’t know what they’re not giving that it’s. Unbelievable. What? What a disappointing gender. Well, what they’re thinking, what they’re giving couldn’t really be measured with the set for measurements we have. So i think the next step in my research is trying to find ways where we can find what men are thinking. Right? Well, there’s the cars and sports and booze that you know it’s. Okay, um, let’s. See? So this is academic research that can be immediately applied. And tha the telemarketing part, right? I mean, so is there any reason to think that if if the organization is calling out that there would be any different result? Uh, no, actually, we way are currently conducting any marketing way. I don’t have the results yet. Okay? But because we don’t think there’s any reason why it wouldn’t work so you could be calling out and thanking someone for thank someone for having been a a friendly or kind or helpful donorsearch in the past. And would you consider giving this year? Is that does that? Does that sound right to you? Yeah. Yeah, but what they need to do is they make sure that thing is somehow linked two people’s sense of their donation or they’re being a donor. And that, i think, needs to be set right before they asked people to give again. Oh, right before. Okay. All right. Before you right at the beginning of the park. Or, you know, without knowing anything about the donor without asking them to at least answer one question to engage. Ok. Ok. So a little engagement, but then right before the ask this this thanking right? Using one of the five moral adjectives two out of using two. Okay. Oh, excellent. All right, so you have to use two of the five? Yeah. We never tested just one because we be virality is a complicated constructs he need, you know, multiple kind of ways to get to it, excellent. Okay, so it’s friendly and kind or whatever. Yeah, any two out of five, you know, to avoid driving, okay, and i’m going to say them again. Okay, i understand i’m going to say them again one more time. Caring, compassionate, friendly, kind, helpful. Do not do not go to the scout law, because it will lead you astray. They’ll beam, or that aren’t on the list that then then r this is sort of suggesting that, you know, we should be not so reliant on anecdotes and tales of what good fund-raising is. But try to rely on hard research as much as possible. Yes, definitely. Absolutely. Teo, any coast don’t make a piece of research. Okay. Okay. Where can people learn more about your research? Well, they can first search jin xiang on the web, and the first link comes up. Should be my website. All my published papers are on there. Okay, let me let me just tell people you’re last name is spelled s h a n g, right, gen shang. Ok, go ahead, please. And then we my collaborator adrian. Sergeant who is the only chair anywhere on fund-raising we collaborative lee maintain a public information website and it’s called www dot study fund-raising dot info. Okay, study fund-raising dot info. Exactly. So if if people just go there, we provide updated information about what research is relevant in what domain. And, you know, we update at pure ops degree and there we try to change all the academic language to away. That is more easily accessible. Gen shang is an assistant professor at the centre. On philanthropy at indiana university jen, thank you so much for being a guest. Definitely. Thank you, it’s. Been a real pleasure. Thank you, thank you. Next week, charity transition. We’re talking about making a career transition into charities, but julia bonham’s strategies will also help those who work in non-profits and are looking to make a change within non-profits she’s, an executive coach and the principle of career change for good. Don’t let your employees listen to that go offline maria simple returns she’s the prospect finder, of course, our regular prospect research contributor this month, she has tips for conducting offline research. You know that the best prospect research comes from face to face meetings with people you want to know? Better check us out on facebook, check us out on linkedin on youtube, youtube, it’s, riel, tony martignetti you know you can listen live our archive, check us out on itunes and to get to itunes. To listen to the archive, go to non-profit radio dot net on twitter you can follow me, i’m at tony martignetti the show’s hashtag is non-profit radio my thanks to lynette singleton for tweeting today, she’s, a very loyal tweeter thank you, lynette, you can follow her she’s at s c g, the number four non-profits our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media. She’s, the one who keeps all those sites up and functioning and current. And the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules were gonna be remote on june eighth at fund-raising day conference here in new york city at the marriott marquis june eighth. Look for us on the exhibit floor. We’ll be doing interviews for this show. I hope you’ll be with me next week. One p, m to two p. M eastern at talking alternative dot com. E-giving thinking. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get anything. Thank you, cubine how’s your game. Want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? You need aspire athletic consulting, stop second guessing yourself move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports, contact dale it aspire athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. 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