282: Lead and Matching Gifts & Corporate Matches – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

tony_martignetti_300x300-itunes_image2Tony’s guests this week:

Professor John List, chair of the economics department and founder of the Science of Philanthropy Initiative at University of Chicago.

Also, Chuck Longfield, chief scientist at Blackbaud.

There’s more at tonymartignetti.com

128: Lead And Matching Gifts In Your Campaign & Many Matching Corporate Gifts – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Professor John List, chair of the Economics Department and founder of the Science of Philanthropy Initiative at University of Chicago

 Chuck Longfield, chief scientist at Blackbaud

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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It’s tony martignetti non-profit radio hello and welcome to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. The campaign for five hundred stars ongoing. We’ve more than doubled the number of ratings on itunes. I thank you very much for that the campaign is ongoing. We want to get one hundred ratings on itunes, so please go to non-profit radio dot net and then click view in itunes and raped the show. Thank you very much for how far we’ve come. Oh, i very much hope that you were with me last week. I couldn’t stand to learn that you had missed aye, aye and you ex information architecture er and the user experience. Lacey kruger lied information architect that blackbaud and misty maclachlan, the company’s principal user experience consultant, had lots of ideas to help you design your online properties for success so that visitors return and supporters stay engaged and tech trends. Scott koegler, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, told us how he sees non-profits using computing to fulfill unique needs engaged through the social networks, customize their own computing and what he expects to see more. Of in the future this week lead and matching gif ts in your campaign professor john list from the university of chicago chairs the economics department and founded the science of philanthropy initiative or spy. No longer must fundraisers rely on tradition and conventional wisdom in campaign planning, you have rigorous science to guide you around lead and matching gif ts how big should lead gift be to impact e-giving well, a one to one match raise as much as a three to one match. You’ll be glad that you’re sing and many matching corporate gif ts chuck longfield, chief scientist at blackbaud, has lots of simple ways to increase your matching gif ts from corporations tap into the annual one point four billion dollars from twenty thousand companies. Did you know that volunteer hours are also dollar matched by many companies? We’ll start with the sector benchmarking and go from there, and that interview was pre recorded. It blackbaud twenty twelve bb con conference. My pleasure now to welcome john list he’s the homer jay livingston, professor and chairman in the department of economics at the university of chicago. He’s expert in the science of philanthropy and his new project the science of philanthropy initiative spy is funded by the john templeton foundation. It’s, a research and outrage venture and we’re going to talk about his research and spies, outreach to charities and how you can participate. Professor john list. Welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s. A pleasure to have you from chicago. You getting snow out there? The way we’re getting inundated died here in new york. Not too much, but it is pretty icy here. So it is. It is difficult driving conditions here, tony. Okay, well, i’m glad you’re safe in your little office. I was, you know, i like to picture academics. You know, my major was economics that i was an economics major at carnegie mellon university. That’s why you’re so smart now, that’s. Because i was rejected by the university of chicago. I hope you were not share in nineteen. I would have been applying in nineteen. Eighty. I hope you were not chair in nineteen. Eighty. I was not. I was actually in eighth grade in nineteen. Eighty rock. Okay, well, you’re a little younger than me, but you don’t look it from your photo now, okay? Let’s, talk about spy. This work is very interesting. Like i said in the in the lead in no longer must charities rely on conventional wisdom? Let’s, start with your methodology around campaigns. What are you doing? I think that right? I think when i first i became interested in this area, tony what i what i found was that you had a bunch of really good people, a bunch of really good hearted people who were basing their decisions. Mohr on anecdotes and gut feelings. Right, then the actual scientific method. So when i say scientific method, what i mean by that is basic a basic experiment. So in that basic experiment, it’s always important to have a control group. Because then when you have ah, treatment groups such as some people might get a one to one match. You want to always compare that to a group of people who did not receive a match? Okay, that’s what? I call a program that’s the control group. Watch out. I have george in jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio. You you scared it closely. But you then you defined control. You could define control group. So you’re clear, but watch out. Okay, all right, so so we have. This is this is the scientific method. We have a control group in a test group or treatment group. And how have you been applying this to campaigns beyond matching? Sure, sure. So when i first started, i was presented with a problem at the university of central florida. So at the university of central florida, the deen challenged me to start a center to do research in environmental policy and what the dean said it is. John, you are responsible for raising money to start the research center. So of course, the first question becomes different in need of resource is for a capital project. What are the first steps i should take? And the fundraisers will tell you you should secure a fraction of the money privately before going public. So, as an economist, i asked a simple question. Well, what is the optimal fraction? What i essentially found? Wass ah, bunch of anecdotes about what that fraction should be. For example, the fund-raising school recommended that forty to fifty percent of the goal should be pledged before the public campaign begins. Other hand books recommended figures between twenty and fifty percent. Right around the same time the university of wisconsin was building there. Cole center, which houses the basketball team in the hockey team. And what they had done in the quiet period is they’re gone out. And gathered twenty seven of their seventy two million dollar goal. So as you can see that the evidence is sort of scattered all over the place. And i simply asked, how do we know which fraction is correct? And very few people had actual scientific evidence to back up their claims that a certain fraction was actually the correct fraction to gather in private before going public. Okay, so he looks just exactly is i didn’t set up a direct mail solicitation, and i split ten thousand households into different buckets or different groups. In one group i advertised, we’re looking for money for our center for environmental policy analysis here at the university of central florida, and we already have ten percent of what we need. We already have that from an anonymous donor. If you know, another group of hall souls received a different kind of letter. It was identical in all respects, except it said that we already have thirty three percent of the of the goal. And another group received a letter that said, we have already saved sixty seven percent of the goal and then the fourth group, which is our control group received the letter. But there was no mention that we have received up front money. Okay? And so this was to our knowledge to your knowledge, is was the first scientific method rigorous test at least that you could find of different match is having an impact on thie outcome of giving? And what did you find that’s? Exactly, right. So what we found is that over that range from ten to sixty seven percent that the more you advertising seed money, the more gifts that you will receive. So in this particular study, what we’ve found was that most people gave and those who were going to give actually gave mohr so the more seed money you have, you wouldn’t do it more people to give and those people who would have given anyways they actually give mme or when you have ah hyre level of seed money. Okay, interesting. And so you did this work. University of central florida. You were then stolen away, recruited away to the university of chicago for more sophisticated work. E well, i don’t know about that, but, you know, there were a few stops in between. I ended up going to the university of arizona, and then from there, i went to the university of maryland and well, i was at the university of maryland. I spent a year working in the white house at the council of economic advisers, and then after that, i came here to chicago to get smarter. Okay, well, you work your way north from from two very south locations. Work your way to the northeast and then the frigid chicago area. We’re going to take a break right now, john, and when we come back, we’ll talk about that more sophisticated work and how it’ll applies to charitable giving. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public lasts or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back. We’re talking with professor john list from university of chicago about leading matching gift in your campaign. I have to send live listener love somebody, somebody in chicago was listening. John, you’ll be gratified to know that there’s a listener in chicago and it was very good. New bern, north carolina, bethlehem, pennsylvania and washington, new jersey live listener love going out also to taipei, taiwan and shang xero change china. I don’t know how to pronounce it. C h a n g s h z chung’s. We’re doing the best we can here. China s o tio taiwan and china ni hao. All right, professor john. Now that you’re at the university, your work has expanded and you’re doing work now with some pretty large charities. Want you describe that that’s, right? That’s. Right, tony, um, you know, after you established that upfront money is important, you can ask yourself, well, should we be using that money is simply an announcement like i did at the university of central florida? Or should we be using it as an announcement and is a match? So, for example, you could say an anonymous daughter just gave us one million. Dollars now we will use those funds is a match. So, for example, for every dollar that you give, we will match with a dollar of this donors. So we ended up taking that idea, which, of course, is a common idea in fund-raising to a simple, direct mail experiment with the sierra club of canada and what we were interested in there it was simply testing the idea of announcing money, which i did at the university of central florida campaign versus announcing money and using it as a one to one match. And what we found there again, we’re we’re sending out tens of thousands of letters two households essentially using the normal ask that the sierra club uses. But here some households receive a letter that has, for example, no mention of this upfront money and that’s, a control group. Other households received the match other households received. We have some money. But there is no match campaign. And what we found there is that again. Seed money works quite well. What i mean by seed money is that if you have up front money that’s very effective in generating people to give but the interesting thing there is that the one to one match worked about as well. Is the seed money treatment in both of them worked much better than the control group. Okay. Okay. Now, the one to one match. This is with the sierra club of canada. The one to one match, you said worked a little bit better than the leadership gift announcement. Actually, they were the leadership gift announcement. Worked slightly better, but they were okay, but they were statistically the same. If you look at them throughout statistical tests, they were about the same. Okay. Okay. And that was a one to one match. Now, what do we know about the what have you learned about the differences between different levels of match? One, two. One, two, one. One, two, two, etcetera. Exactly. You know, tony that’s a great question. Because that’s that’s clearly the next step in the research agenda. And when you look a man, i should have been a profess xero economics. I did well to carnegie mellon. I have no shot having gone there so way. Always have a spot here for you at the university. Thank you, thie that you know, you’re not the dean. Just need department chair. Well, no, i’m just a lowly department there. Department chair, while i’ll use you for my letter of recommendation. All right? Absolutely. Okay. What do we know about how these different levels of matching compare? Yeah. That’s a good question, because you know, the anecdotal evidence out in the field is that obviously a three to one match should work. A lot better than a one to one match in a three to one match, of course is, for every dollar that you give, the charity will match with three dollars and the one the one every dollar you give the charity will match with a dollar. But of course, when we went out to the literature, we could not find any scientific evidence that indeed a three. The one match was better than a one to one mad again. Just a lot of conventional wisdom. And this is the tradition. Absolutely. Okay, absolutely. Which, of course, drives an economics professor. Not what we don’t have any data or scientific evidence to back up that finding. All right. Here’s. Where we? Yeah, here’s. Where we part company c i should probably just settle for an honorary. Ph d from the university because it hasn’t driven me as nuts as it has you, but i’m glad it has go ahead. Absolutely so this time we teamed with the national liberal non-profit in the us, which does political and socially oriented work, and i have to be careful because i cannot mention the non-profit due to a non disclosure agreement that we made with them. But essentially the background is that every month they send about fifty thousand letters, too. They’re regular donors, and they asked them for money and essentially what we did is, again we put the households into different buckets or different groups. In one bucket, you had households that received a one to one match offer. In another group, households received a two to one match offer, and in a third group, households received a three to one match offer. And then, of course, we compare that to a fourth group, which is the control group, right? No match, no match at all, which they received, you know, a typical letter that says we’re looking for money to help the cause, so to speak. Okay, so what we found here is that if you just look at the data amongst those households that received a match offer versus those households that did not receive any match offer. You raise about nineteen percent more money in those matching treatments compared to the control group. Excellent. And the interesting part is that effect occurs entirely on what an economist calls the extensive margin. And what i mean by that is that nineteen percent occurs entirely because the response rate went up about twenty two percent. So more people decided to give. When there was a match available, they still gave the same amount per person. But more people give when there’s a match available. So so the effect is not because people are giving mohr, but because more people are giving exactly. And this. And then the level of giving doesn’t change among among all the people who give versus the control group that’s, right? So if you were going to give anyway, on average, you give the same amount. But you just get twenty two percent more people to give some money rather than give nothing. And is that impacted at all by the level of the match? Exactly. So the other finding that we that just jumps out at you in the data. Is that the three to one, the two to one and the one to one match groups perform identically. Are you sure about that, e? I mean, nasa has made mathematical errors, and they forgot to convert you forgot to convert fahrenheit into celsius or something like that. Are you sure about this? I mean, it happened, you know, if you hadn’t. If you haven’t double check your math, i’ll understand. But i’ll tell you what. I have double and triple checked my math, and i’ve also gone to other charities, and i’ve done the same kind of experiment with amnesty international with liar, a beat, a children’s hospital. And what we find over and over again is that having match dollars, really? That really matters a lot. But the size of the match does not matter. Ah, that’s. Very interesting. Very interesting. And contrary to all that conventional wisdom that we were talking about. Okay, so the one to one match pulls well, has has the same effect as the three to one match. Okay, if you’re sure okay, what about the one, two two or one two, three. Where? A dollar gets fifty cents or something like that or those types of matches exactly that’s very good questions. So we have now extended that original experiment all the way down on the other side, so we’ve looked at one to two and we have looked at one, two, three and again one, two, three and one, two, two are the same as one to one. So at least over the range that we’ve experimented with one toe, one all the way down to one, two, three and all the way up to three, two, one we find the same result that people give the same amount of money. Now, i think we need to take care here, because if we would go all the way, say, for example, to one to one hundred, if you give one hundred dollars, we will match with one dollars, i’m pretty sure that would not work very well, although that’s a gut feeling, so i i i i don’t want to break my own rules, right? Because that’s, just my intuition that suggests if you go that far, you can actually hurt your capital campaign, but i don’t have any empirical evidence for that okay, john list is the homer jay livingston, professor of economics and chair of the department at the university of chicago, and we’re talking mostly about his work through the science of philanthropy initiative at the university spy, which you’ll find at s p i hub dot or ge, and we’re going to talk about working with it’s by very shortly. All right, john. So now we don’t know one, two one, two a one hundred match that would i guess you would expect that to be different than a one to one match, but we don’t have any evidence of that, right? That’s correct. Okay. Do you plan to test a match that that that’s that largest to see if there where where the boundary is that the one to one effect breaks down? You know, i would love to. And just exactly as you mentioned. Always looking for partners to try ideas such as that one. And i think that’s exactly. The next step that the research will take is is where does the match the effectiveness of the match actually break down? I think it’s a great research question and one in which i do wish. To explore. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Now you have some evidence of how this works on ah, dahna ah, warm list versus a cold list. Why don’t you describe those and what? That what those outcomes are exactly. Exactly. So when we think about warm list, what? The way that we differentiate people in data sets is a warm list is a person who has given to our cause within the last three years. So if you’ve given ten dollars or ten million dollars within the last three years, we label you is a warm list person. Ah, cold list person is a person who has not given to our cause in the last three years. So that just gives you some definitions of the way that we think about cold lest versus warm list. Now you’re exactly right to pinpoint that feature in our data. What we find is that the cold less people are more influenced by the match, then the warm list people it’s. Not that the wordless people are not influenced by the match because indeed, warm, less people are influenced by the match. They’re just not as influenced as much. Is the coldness, people? Okay, okay. And they’re influenced in what way the proportion of giving is greater, right? Because we’re talking about more people giving not people giving mohr money exactly it’s exactly proportion all about the number ofthe coldness people who give above and beyond the number of coldness people who give in the control group. Okay, okay. Interesting. All right, let’s, move to. Well, let’s, let’s spend a little time talking about the partnership. We have more to talk about your research in terms of leadership gifts. We’ve just been talking about matching gifts, but you’re you’re actively looking for charity partners to work with, right? Absolutely. So, you know, we’ve just we’ve just begun. We’ve just started spy hub dot org’s is you mentioned earlier, and even though my own research, i’ve been doing work in philanthropy now, since nineteen ninety eight, we have just received a very generous grant from the john templeton foundation that allows us more opportunities and more time toe work with those charities out there who are interested in partnering with us. Remember, you’re gonna have to put up with our craziness because we’re academics. We have crazy ideas. Yeah, you should see your listeners if you go to my block. You’ll see you’ll see john’s, head shot and there’s all kinds of mathematical equations behind him on a blot on a blackboard. There’s, not even a whiteboard. I was surprised i would have thought for sure university chicago would be using whiteboard technology, but not in your classroom anyway. Unless it’s an old photo it’s it’s chalk on a blackboard and you have the and use lambda in your and some of your equations that would know lambda always scared me as i was as i was doing economics, studying econometrics and regression analysis. I don’t know why just lambda lambda just seems intimidating to me lambda i don’t know a couple of lamb does behind so yeah, i looked at your picture way linda brings up everybody still old school here. I’m sitting in my office right now and i actually have a blackboard in my office which has lambda written on it. You do see that’s? Why i’m getting a bad vibe going toe. I want to bring out the love cristal here. Couple of a couple of shows ago someone held the crystal court’s love krystal i’m getting a bad vibe till and it’s a lambda thing for me? I don’t know why i just since my econometrics days, lam does giving me trouble. All right, we have just a couple minutes before break. So let’s, keep talking about eso charities. Should charities that are interested in putting up with you go to s p i hub dot or gq? Or how do they get information? That’s, right? I think that’s a good spot to go to or, you know, you can actually google me if you google john list. You know, i promise you i’m not the mass murder. That guy will come up first. I’ll probably come up second. Zoho is there one of those? Okay, yeah. You know, john list is a very unfortunate name, but, you know, my email address you can email me here at the university of chicago, it’s jade list at u chicago daddy to you. And, you know, we can begin discussions about forming a partnership. Our bottom line is this we don’t charge for what we do, but what we expect is that we can use the data that is generated from the cause you know, from the telephone or the direct mailer or the or the banquet that we could actually use those data when we write academic papers or we do radio interviews or television interviews. And what have you that that’s, really, the only cost is that you allow us to work with the data and pushed the knowledge frontier in this particular sector, because that’s, really what we’re in it for, we’re not in it to make money ourselves way really want the sector to undergo a scientific revolution, because we believe so strongly in this sector. Okay, on dh, this can be done anonymously, right? The charity name doesn’t have to be in your research. Okay, absolutely. All right, we’re gonna take a break, and professor list stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. Co-branding dick, dick tooting. Good ending. Ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. E-giving you get it, are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I got more live listener love of going abroad. Taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, seoul, korea. Anya haserot, valencia, spain. Ola and who? Nador a romania i don’t know how to say hello, but i’ve been in your neighborhood. I’ve been to moldova. I spent a week in moldova a few years ago. Okay? Professor list way told charities how they can get involved with you. Let’s, move to your research on leadership gif ts what was that about? So? So what the leadership gives essentially are about is that if you receive upfront money, there are many different ways to use that up front money. You can simply announce it is we did at the university of central florida. You can use it as a matching gift. Is we just talked about, or you can use it, for example, for small gifts. You know, small daughter gets teo to give to people who actually give to your cause. Or you can actually use it for lottery prizes. If you wanted teo to link people’s contributions to a possibility, tto win a large prize. Those are other ways in which you could use upfront money as well. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, go. Ahead what we’ve been finding is that if you actually link the donation to ah probability of winning a prize that you khun considerably increased giving rates, in fact, is much is one hundred percent, and most of that result is actually on again the extensive margin more people are giving when they have a chance to win a prize. Okay, um, and how does how does this type of e-giving compare with the one to one match? You know, this type of giving is in the range of a one to one match. So if your ah, if you’re thinking about going out and using up front money, what we’ve been finding is that a one to one match works about as well is ah, lottery where you where you give away a large prize, say a thousand dollars to one of the donors it works about equally as well as a one to one match. Okay. Okay. Um, these are too different types of inducements. This is interesting. Is that the, uh one to one match is conditional on the person giving and the the other is not it’s it’s. Definitely. What? Why that? What is that difference? Mean, exactly. So what we’ve been finding you pinpointed a very important fact in our data is that on the one case one to one match, those dollars essentially are conditional in the sense that you have to give one hundred dollars to have the anonymous donor gives one hundred dollars. We’re a leadership gift is essentially the the lead daughter giving money that’s unconditional. So what we’ve been finding is that that unconditional gift tends to be slightly stronger, a slightly stronger signal to donors. Then the match gift is, and we think that’s because the signaling value off that gift and what i mean by signaling value is this anonymous donor probably knows mohr information about the charitable cause than i do. So if i see her giving a large amount of money for the cause, that sends a signal to me that charitable dr is a good one. It’s a good signal of charitable quality, that’s what our data points to time in and time again, that the leadership, a gift is a very important signal of the quality of the charitable dr. Okay, okay. Let’s, i want to talk a little about what you’re what you’re doing next. You have some interesting research that you’re working on your next project, the one one and done right? Yeah, right, please. Yeah, that’s good that you bring that up because this is a project that right now has a lot of my attention, and this is a project that we’ve worked in partnership with smile train so smile train is a wonderful organization that takes care of cleft palates of of the youth overseas, so they send doctors overseas to take care of this very dreaded birth defect. And with them, we’ve developed a program which we call once and done and essentially it’s a direct mail solicitation. But within that direct mail solicitation, it says, give now and we will never bother you again if you check this box. John, we have just a minute left. Give, tell us briefly what? What? The impact of that is sure what we’ve been finding we’ve sent to about eight hundred thousand people in what we’ve been fighting is that if you use once and done, you can raise about three times more money, then you can with the control group onley thirty four percent of the people will actually check the box. And when you look into the future, you don’t actually lose donors. You raised just as much money in the future. Is you raised from the control group in the once and done group. So, in essence, you raised about three times more money in the initial mailer, and it does not compromise future fundez from those people. Okay, we have to sort of leave it there. I think you should call it one and done, though not once. And done. You’re missing the good alliteration opportunity wanted done. No one gift. And you’re done. Remember how many economists not an english professor? Would you go for the goal for the liberation? I don’t have more punch one and done. I think you should rename it one and done. But obviously, the impact on the outcome is what’s. More important, jonathan. Thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you very much. I look forward to talking to you soon. Tony. My pleasure. John list, chair of the department of economics at the university of chicago. You confined him at s p i hub. Dot org’s, spy hub dot or ge and he and i will be in touch to schedule the date for my honorary ph d ceremony. I have to do tony’s take too, because i want to keep john on, so i put that off a little bit it’s the five hundred stars campaign very, very simple. We’re trying to get one hundred five star ratings for the show it’s already having an impact, the show is trending it’s in category called what’s hot in non-profits on itunes and also in government and organizations on itunes s o you’re having an impact, i’d be grateful if we could just get to the get even more get to that goal of one hundred five star ratings. We start at non-profit radio dot net and then click view in itunes and that’s all explained more on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is the tonys. Take two for friday, february eighth, which is the sixth show of this year now i have for you ah pre recorded interview from bb khan twenty twelve last year. Chuck longfield, the chief scientist there at blackbaud and our subject was matching corporate gif. Ts hears that. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of b become twenty twelve blackbaud conference where outside washington dc gaylord convention center with me now is chuck longfield trick is chief scientist blackbaud chuck. Welcome. Thank you. Nice to be here. It’s a pleasure to have things very much. Your session topic yesterday was don’t leave money on the table. Ten proven practices for success with magic gift let’s start with a very basic why shoot a charity spent time with matching gives his reforms there’s compliance is going to be back and forth with companies. Why is this worth it? I’m currently about a little over a billion dollars a year is given by corporations to matching gets about one point four billion dollars it’s about twenty thousand companies in america that will match their gifts, about half of the fortune five hundred have matching gifts, they’ll match donations, and a number of them will also match volunteer hours. So, for example, if you volunteer at a non-profit you work for microsoft, they’ll actually pay you fourteen dollars for every hour that you don’t pay the non-profit fourteen dollars for every hour they volunteer and some companies if you give them a thousand dollar donation or one hundred dollar donation, they’ll match it. Oneto one, two to one, three to one. So it’s in a sense, it’s kind of newfound money caused fund-raising isn’t all that high. There are some compliance issues and paper forms and such but that’s getting easier. So in general there’s there’s a big opportunity and i’ve done a lot of research that has shown that most companies are not doing nearly enough in this area and they could be substantially increasing their revenue several percent if they pursue some of these practices. How recent is the bee in person volunteer time it’s been a mean it’s been in place for a while now. It’s a relatively new thing but it’s it’s been in place for a while. Okay, so it’s worth the small administrative time that’s right in the past. The way the process worked was the employee was encouraged to go to the hr department. More recently go to the internet at their company. Get a form. Fill out the form. Send it into the non-profit. Non-profit indicates that they indeed got the donation. They send it on to the company. The company over time has been outsourcing this to other companies to do the paperwork. So it’s actually been someone burned some authority, but the internet and a lot of links now have made this easier. So most employees now just encouraged to go to a a site. They could indicate that they made this donation and the paperwork is all done. So, for example, there’s, a company in new jersey that j k group that works with many of the fortune five hundred companies, and they have a website called easy match and you use easy match the processing for the nonprofit for the employees, for the corporations made much easier. Okay, e-giving listen, is the name of that company one more time? The company actually is kind of in the background, but their website is called easy match zizi match daikon. No, i’m sorry. E a s y m a c h dot com. Okay, hyre so what was what was the first piece of advice that you shared on building this magic gift? So one of the pieces of advice which actually wasn’t the first, but i’ll start with it is the benchmark with against your peers. So in different organizations, latto have different resources, there are organizations that have probably like yours that that i realize a greater percentage of matching gift dollars, and so when you’re actually looking at the opportunity. So for example, if your university, there were many universities, now that a matching five, six, seven percent of the total revenue with matching gifts. So if you’re doing one percent in your university, you’d say, well, how are they getting five percent to finally get one percent? If you are a public broadcasting station, good public broadcasting stations, air getting three or four percent, most public broadcasting stations are getting well under one percent so they can look at their numbers and they say, well, why am i not getting three or four percent? So it’s a good way by benchmark king first to quantify the game that you might realize really, it does vary considerably. Sounds like across different charitable vision. Well, it doesn’t, and in fact, the public broadcasting stations could probably achieve five, six, seven percent that they would need to actually start doing some of the things that comes more easily to a university, like knowing where their people work so university can collect that more easily. Where’s, the public broadcasting station might have more trouble finding out that you work for ibm, but but still the real issue is that if you know how well some of your better peers are performing, you can actually estimate what how much money is at stake for you. And then the actual practices are relatively easy. I joked in my presentation that there’s a surgeon, a tool go on, they wrote a great book called checklist manifesto, and he pointed out in the book that if doctors washed their hands, they would get ten thousand fewer patients a year would die of infections, and book doctors don’t always wash their hands. In fact, the substantial number don’t well, then matching gifts. The analogy is that if you want substantially more matching gift dollars, all you have to do is remember who matched last year and remind them when they give this year to match again. So it’s, not rocket science. But if you do it, you actually would boost your matching gets there’s a few practices like that that are relatively straight forward, okay. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Before we go back to the rest of the interview, we gotta send live listener love to estero, florida and new york, new york, new york, new york finally where you guys been? Okay, here’s, the rest of the chuck longfield interview my share, another short, simple fun i could find simple and fun that’s, right? So another one is is that a lot of people now moving, too websites to make donations it’s relatively easy to but on your website another line which says that if you work for a matching gift company, please match and you can actually hyper link it to the list of matching cos the twenty thousand companies so somebody, if they do work, they can click, they can look up apple computer, they click on apple computer indicate that they work for apple and the process can begin. And in fact, with somebody like apple, the next thing you’ll be directed to do is click on easy match and the process basically would be finished. Type in your employee i d number indicate that you made the gift and be off. Is that a list of twenty thousand proprietary? You have to be working. With a company to be ableto hyperlink super vis, yes, it’s actually it’s a very low cost and smith it’s made available by two companies, blackbaud is one kapin is and now the gp is another, and it costs about a thousand dollars to license the soft with the list of companies and an awful lot of companies already licensed. It put it on their website, but yes, a small and midsize non-profit that’s not doing that should do it because it’s relatively easy, and then the donor is self serving, servicing themselves, they’re indicating it moving on got another like he’s fun. Well, another one is, is that if you’re a regional non-profit so say europe non-profit in the houston market, houston, texas market and exxon mobil is a big employer in your market, or if you’re a bank of america and urine that their market, you can actually get their blank form. And if you know some of your employees work for exxon mobil, when you thank them, you can actually just send them the form or send them an email hyper linked directly to the exxon mobil website so they could go on, make a donation and it’s relatively easy to determine that some of these people work for exxon because they might already have volunteered their email address and their email address might be chuck it exxon dot com really pretty simple research making it so much easier for the donor hyre that’s correct. And in fact, if you look at the university’s universities that are getting this five, six, seven percent more money aren’t doing anything more than these basics, plus making sure they find out where you work. Okay, what our strategy for finding out where you work, we mention public radio probably doesn’t know that how can i help the small net size shop get that information? So probably the best way is, is that if you’re doing phone of john’s or any type of telemarketing speaking with your donors, so for example, in public broadcasting, they have pledge drives when the person calls it in pledges, you simply ask one more question, where do you work on whether your company matches and you’re off and running? If you do telemarketing you, khun called sometimes organizations calling thank their donors and you think you could ask him if they work for matching company? You can buy this data from song third party vendors. That source isn’t so great yet that that there isn’t really an easy way to give them a list of your donors and for a third party to actually tell you where they worked. But those companies are trying to get better at that. Linked in, obviously, is a celestine, so sometimes you can simply go online, and what a small and mid sized non-profit could be encouraged to do is just go online and look up your major donors. You’re bigger donorsearch sabat e-giving five hundred thousand dollars. Type them into lincoln, see if you can find out where they work it it’s, a matching company pursuit for a matching gift. So i made you die aggressive, too easy and fun. Are there other strategies? Wanna share that geever topic you’re talking about? No, you know, actually, i think the ironic thing about many of these things is that they’re actually relatively straightforward, you know, one of the things that is more complex and could actually make it easier, but easy matches is kind of doing away with it is some organizations can actually take the form, fill it out, fly you send it to you and all you have to do it, sign it and send it back in. And if you’re a national non-profit that’s hard because there’s so many matching gift forms, but it turns out in most cities in america, major cities, three of four, five companies represent eighty percent of the matching gifts in that area. So in many cases, you don’t have to work that hard for it. One other thing you could do, which is probably true of a small kruckel organization. That’s, right? That’s, right, it’s just, you know, most of the money is coming from the big employers in town. Now, one of the other things you could do which is kind of a clever thing, is that say, you know, you have a lot of people who work for a company and it doesn’t match gifts, but you may have twenty or thirty employees that worked for that company. What some people have found success in is actually just making a list of those thirty people are and going and visiting the company in their corporate relations and talking to them about what would you make a donation to us either because you’ll match your employees gifts or you’ll just make a donation, advertise it and you’ll know thirty of your employees is gonna be thrilled because they support the organization as well. And so it’s another way to engage companies and promoted and again universities have gotten very good at that practice is well and end up pursuing people. You have just about two more minutes. Okay, what else? I’m just gonna throw it out. What else would like to share around? Pretty simple teo to build scale? Yeah, that’s e-giving dahna well, the one thing thiss isn’t the technique, but just to show the opportunity when i said that there’s one point four billion dollars donated that’s about ten percent of corporate philanthropy, so corporations make many other donations to non-profits, but about ten percent of it is matching gift contributions. One point four billion that is less than, and in most cases fairly well, less than one percent off. When i said that there’s a five to seven percent opportunity and so there’s tremendous room toe actually raise total corporate philanthropy, matching of france will be by a billion. Two billion dollars. I had a question this morning about what that actually leads corporations to cut back on their match and give program, if all of a sudden what people were doing it. And i’ve talked to people both work in the company’s as well as other knowledgeable people. And they joked that it’s still such a small toe, a percentage of total corporate philanthropy that we could easily double it, and the corporations really wouldn’t block at it. So why definitely encourage non-profits to go after this money, and i think it will be there. Let’s, take that rationalization off the table. You’ll end up cutting us back if we do more often. Hm. Chuck longfield is it is chief scientist, scientist for blackbaud. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for spending time. Pleasure. Thankyou, tony. Pleasure. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage becomes twenty twelve. My thanks. Also to the people at blackbaud who supported me when i was there for their october twenty twelve conference. Thanks also to john list and eating. Debray is who works at the university and helped with all the logistics of getting professor list as a guest. And on the phone next week. Marcia stop panic is an adviser to the new york university heimans center for philanthropy. And she was the founding editor of contribute magazine. We’ll talk about the role of women in philanthropy. I’m calling it some raise money. Some raise hell. And amy sample ward, our social media scientist. Little bit of a hell raiser herself, i would say although she’s afraid of alligators. She’s coming back. Amy will be with us next week. More live listener love atlanta, georgia and columbia, missouri. Welcome live listener love to you in georgia and missouri. The five hundred stars campaign. I think i’ve mentioned it once or twice. Please go to non-profit radio dot net, click view in itunes rate the show. Go now, go right now before you forget. Thank you, and thank you for as far as we’ve gotten so far, more than doubled the number of ratings on itunes. Thank you for that. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules ivory. Much hope that you will be with me next friday at talking alternative dot com. That’ll be friday, one to two p, m eastern. Hyre dahna i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get anything. Think. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me. 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102: Arts And Culture Building Bust? & Turn Supporters Into Honorees – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Joanna Woronkowicz, associate at University of Chicago’s Cultural Policy Center and lead author of “Set in Stone: Building America’s New Generation of Cultural Facilities, 1994-2008”

Preeti Davidson, director of development at The Legal Aid Society

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Cerini hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent is july twenty seventh. Welcome time, your aptly named host. I very much hope that you were with me last week. I hope to hell you were with me last week because it would hurt me deeply if i had learned that you missed trim tab marketing. James he eaten is president and creative director of tronvig group. The metaphor of a trim tab as one person who can move an entire society has professional and personal meaning for him, he explained how something small and seemingly insignificant could make a big difference in your marketing and how to figure out what that small thing is and no more crappy corporate relationships. Erica hamilton, chief program officer for i mentor, and vanessa mendenhall, vice president of the fellows program at new york, needs you described their holistic approach to your corporate relationships this week. Arts and culture building bust joanna veronica bitch is an associate at the university of chicago’s cultural policy center. She’s, lead author of a study of the major building boom of museums performing arts centers in theaters in the u s from nineteen ninety four to two thousand eight, they started with about five hundred organizations and seven hundred building projects, ranging from four million dollars to three hundred fifty five million dollars. We’ll talk about the lessons from that research and turn supporters into honorees. Pretty davidson, a speaker at fund-raising day two thousand twelve, shares her methods for identifying, asking, setting expectations for working amicably with and following up with your event honorees. She’s, director of development at the legal aid society between the guests on tony’s take two one hundred show winners and some stand up comedy videos that’s what’s on my block this week and we’ll have a short clip for you of the latter stand up comedy use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter right now, we take a break and when we return, i’ll be with joanna veronica vich and we’ll talk about the study of cultural building, bust or boom from university of chicago’s cultural policy center will stay with me co-branding think tooting, getting thinking things you’re listening to the talking alternate network, get anything? Dahna good. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit. You hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m joined now by joanna veronica, bitch she’s, the lead author of set in stone building, america’s, new generation of cultural facilities nineteen, ninety four to two thousand eight she’s, an associate at the cultural policy center at the university of chicago. She studies trends in building cultural facilities and best practices for going forward. Joanna. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, tony it’s. A pleasure. What goes on over there at the cultural policy center at the university of chicago. Joanna, did we just lose joana? Sam joiner, are you there? You and i had this deep, insightful question about what goes on over there. My concern was that it might be ah, bunch of ivory tower academics thinking amongst themselves and nothing trickling down to the to the real world. But i i hope that she was going to dispel that she seems as she shy or we drop. We lost her she’s not shy, we lost her. Okay, well, the study that will will be talking about is one of building of museums, theaters and performing arts centers between nineteen, ninety four in two thousand eight. And we’re going to talk about what some of the aa markers of success are for those building projects and also what some of the red flags of potential problems are. As you might imagine, all these building projects don’t turn out quite the way always that boards of trustees imagine that they’re going to and the survey involved the research involved a lot of interviews with board members. Joanna, we have you back? Yes, i’m here. Ok. Ok. So we’re not sure what happened. I was just saying that, i hope. That the cultural policy center is not a place where a bunch of academics are talking to each other and nothing trickles down to the real world. That’s, that’s, that’s not that’s, not what’s happening there. Is it that’s? Certainly not what i want to make one of the major goals with the study in particular was to actually reach the field. So, you know, we had a long communications plan that went along with our research plan, and really the last six months have been devoted to figuring out how to reach the reach the field with our work. Okay, well, i’m sorry your spending time here because no one listens to this show, so this is squandering of your time. I’m sorry, but it’s too late. Now you’re committed. What? What does the cultural policy center do? Generally so generally, the cultural policy center is a joint initiative of both the hair school of public policy and nrc at the university of shots chicago, which nrc is one of the largest research institutions in this country over seventy years old, and started off with doing public opinion research and now the social science research. More generally, the cultural policy center than focused focuses specifically on research has as it has to do with thea arts and cultural sector, mainly non-profit organizations okay, and tell us what an o r c stands for so i can keep you out of jargon jail. Sure. So noor formally stands for the national opinion research center, which people know a little bit better of. Okay. All right, so these the research and the article that you are lead author of was set in stone. What was the method that you used to do the research on the’s cultural and performing arts? Well, these museums and theaters and performing arts centers? Well, this was really one of the the first systematic study of cultural building in the united states, and i think the word systematic because, you know, it was scientifically systematic, so we went through a variety of methods to make sure what we’re studying was representative of the non-profit our sector, yes, there was a number of steps that were involved. The first was really first getting a list of all construction projects of museums, theaters and performing arts centers that responded in the time period that we studied which again? Was nineteen, ninety four until two thousand eight way studied trends using that large list of of construction project. So that’s, where we came to conclusion such as there was more building going on in the south during that time period, there is also more performing arts center is being built, museums in cedars and some other conclusions that we came to. But but we also did with that list was we picked a representative sample of fifty six organisations in approximately six different cities across the united states that had a building project, and after we picked that sample, we interviewed a number of people with each organization that actually went through the building projects from beginning to end, to get details on the planning and building processes of these projects. And then, of course, we looked at those organizations, financial data as measures of outcomes for these projects. So you were you were given pretty pretty open access than to decision making and players involved in decision making. We definitely were, you know, our respondents were incredibly, they were way had a lot of really great participation, and i think one of the reasons being that we actually promised confidentiality to our respondents. So our respondents seems very much open to talking to us about how these processes actually took place. Okay, interesting. Now we have just about a minute before a break. Why do you think there’s there’s more building in the south than other parts of the country? Well, the main hypothesis and we’ve looked into this as well as because the south had less cultural facilities to begin, in a sense, they were playing catch up the other regions around the country. Ok? And you said this was the first study of its kind. There has never been a a scientific study of of outcomes in building, performing arts and arts and cultural centers. That’s, right? There have been smaller studies that have focused on the case studies, and then there have been other samples taken, but the’s samples usually are non representative. So we really tried teo stick to our methodology and making general conclusions that were representative of the entire our cultural sector. All right? And we’re gonna talk in more detail when we return after this break. Joanna veronica bitches with me and we’re talking about the study that she’s lead author of set in stone building. America’s, new generation of cultural facilities nineteen, ninety four to two thousand eight. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream. Our show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower listen to me. Very sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio dot com everytime was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Money, time, happiness, success, where’s, your breakthrough. Join me, nora simpson, as i bring you real world tools for combining financial smarts with spiritual purpose. As a consultant to ceos, i’ve helped produce clear, measurable financial results while expanding integrity, passion and joy share my journey as we apply the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment. To create breakthroughs for people across the world. The people of creation nation listened to norah simpson’s creation nation fridays at twelve noon eastern on talking alternative dot com. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back. Before we dive back into this, i want to send out a little live listener love to ah, new brunswick, canada. Welcome and newport, north carolina. Welcome to both of you, there’s. Others, but that’s two so far. So, joanna, you had you did a lot of interviewing with people for representing the fifty six representative projects. Or was it all just sort of forensic and looking back? So we did a lot of interviewing. We interviewed approximately, i would say eighty people across those fifty six different organizations, so sometimes more than one person, it was mainly either the executive director or the board chair that way spoke to but way had to be sure that that person was around, right that’s, the beginning of the project and all the way through the end so we could get the entire story. We also wrote a series of case studies where we did probably about ten to fifteen interviews for each case, studies and those air available online as well with the report. And then we also did interviews with four hundred forty for organizations that did not have their own building projects, but we’re located in cities. Where there was a major building project and the purpose of those interviews were to see what the spillover effects of these types of projects are. Oh, so that’s what? You had over five hundred or you had five hundred interviews? Is that right? That’s? Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. So also then you had access to people in the communities? Not clearly, not only the charities that were involved. That’s exactly right? We really made a large attempt to speak to not only those people who were directly involved, but two people who we think might have been affected or might have had a different perspectives and those internal to the organization. And aren’t the community’s involved, or shouldn’t they be involved in assessing whether there’s a need for one of these ah, new facility of the type we’re talking about? Well, you know, that was exactly the question we were trying to get at, and we ask that question to not only the directors and board trustees that we spoke to involved in building processes, but way spoke to those organisations themselves, those external organizations to see if they have been contacted in, you know, in the planning stages. Of these building processes, i think a lot of the time there were sort of steps taken by the organization to make to reach out to the community, and that would include things like public forums and and other types of meetings and no feedback sessions and and then, you know, and there were actually attempt to speak to the arts community and seeing it, perhaps their collaboration, their partnerships available and pursuing these projects as well. And did you find that there was, ah, i don’t know how to describe just what i was there in your mind sufficient collaboration with the community partners at the feasibility study stage, so that was really one of the one of the conclusion we came to about best practices for going forward were based on what we saw in reaching out to the community, and we thought that those projects that actually did make a really attempt in getting feedback from the community and and listens to a point and were receptive to that feedback were projects that were much more successful and in those projects that either, you know, didn’t at all involved the community or didn’t didn’t really be receptive. Enough to the communities. Feedback. They had a harder time. They have a harder time after the project was open. Okay. And how did you define a successful project? It was one of probably the most difficult things that we did in the overall study was defined success. And so we ended up doing it a number of different ways. We had a lot of subjective measures of success that we actually had a sort of what we call it. Our expert review panel. Look at a lot of different data about each organization we studied, and then great success on its tail, kind of great, different dimensions of success on a scale. We also then looked at financial outcomes of these organizations and tried to get a good enough picture of after the project opened, what the finances looks like with the organization. So we gave ourselves a special that we studied organizations, that we could get financial data for at least five years out after the project opened. So those were those were definitely two ways that we categorize success with. All right. And so you talked about one of the markers of success being community involvement in the feasibility study stage. What’s, what’s what’s. Um, let’s. Talk about some others that would lead people to lead charities. Tohave ah, greater likelihood of a more of a positive outcome than not sure, you know way kind of identified four different dimensions that could lead to better, better projects down the line and one of those dimensions we call kind of the motivation for the project. And that includes really being able to decipher what’s an organizational need and what’s an organizational desire and and needs and desires, you know, already two very ambiguous terms to decipher between. But the way that we saw successful organizations decipher between the two that needed is clearly attached to demand assessment. So if you see demand increasing for your organization, then then it’s more likely that there’s a need for either better, more improved their larger facility. We also saw in terms of the motivation, those organizations that really clearly knew why the project is being built and how it related to their mission. We’re definitely much more successful down the line leadership with another dimension. So having a leader from right having the same leader start the project and then finish that project and making sure that before before the planning and building this place is definitely a vital to the project success and then way also looked at outcomes that was another dimension. And so we looked at sort of all of the ancillary revenue streams that organizations planned on having after the project opened, and we called that so we looked at essentially house flexible and nimble organizations could be in generating revenue, and then also in terms of outcomes we were those projects that were more successful also tended to really stick to the caps that they put on budgets in the planning and building processes. But most of the projects went way over budget, didn’t they? Over budget overtime? That’s right? Wasn’t eighty seven percent, eighty percent of project went over their initial budget, and and by large numbers to was it weren’t some of them to buy a factor of two? Yeah, but we did have some project over two hundred percent over their initial lodges budget s o and do we have any sense of we break that down and analyzed by that and look at what might have caused those projects that went way. Over budget to have to have been more likely to do so. Could you slice it that way? Definitely. We looked at that as well. And it was it was clearly so. One of the first reasons we call budgets really increase was that division of of the project in the beginning wasn’t as clear as it should have been. And so that’s what? We was sort of what you could call vision creased i mean, vision division kept on expanding, as i think, enthusiasm as an excitement kept on group growing with the project. But that was one reason. Okay, okay, you mentioned that something that would be likely to contribute to how you define a successful project was is that it is related to the mission. And that sounds a little bit like what you’re talking about now in mission creek. But but how does an organization start out with building a project, a concept that isn’t related to their mission? What does that look like? Well, a lot of the time, the reasons for these projects are our external to the organization. A lot of the time, you know, we saw organizations decided to build not because it was necessarily related to their mission, but because, you know certain members of the community or the board thought it would be a good idea for let’s, say economic development reasons or something like that. So it wasn’t directly attached to the organization. I think a lot of the time organizations and into trouble when that was the case, i see, ok on dh, you also talk about the the they’re being ah it’s more likely to be successful there’s increasing demand, which would sort of counter act the the ego factor, right? I mean, it wouldn’t every cultural organization like to have a brand new, spiffy building and, you know, it’s tens of thousands of square feet or something, but we have to overcome that ego and focus on some real numbers, right? I mean, you know, that’s, probably one of the most interesting elements of our facilities project is that they’re very much projects passion, a lot of the time and a lot of the time, those people who have the idea for the project, i mean, are really passionate about seeing it through because their patches passionate about their art form, passionate about their organization and which, you know, is is truly great. However, you know, the reason that we really went forward with this study was because in a way, way wanted teo see what rational elements we could pull out of this process and what rational elements we could bring to the table in for future projects. Because, you know, even though passion move the project, you really do have to think about the nuts and bolts of what’s actually going to be feasible. Down the line. Joanna veronica bitches with me she’s associate at the cultural policy center at the university of chicago and lead author of their study of building between nineteen, ninety four and two thousand eight among cultural institutions, what are some of the the markers of difficulty or sort of red flags? Well, way one of the other definitely one of the other elements in-kind sweet study was sort of what we called, how difficult the process ended up being. And, you know, they’re clear markers such as lawsuits and things like that, that i think anybody would agree that our elements of of difficulty, i mean, but really, it really had to do with, you know, a lot. Of the markers of difficult project had to do with all of the markers of success. So kind of if you think about the opposite so good earlier, right, that, you know, you needed leadership. The same leadership from the beginning into the end. Well, those projects that had a lot of turnover and executive leadership definitely had a tougher time down the line. Okay, so essentially the negatives of the success markers. That’s, right? Ok. Ok. I’m always interested in feasibility studies on dh because i think a lot of times that the organization that does the feasibility study has an interest in carrying on the work. So they want to have that they want to give a positive, um ah, positive projection to the charity so that they’ll be hired toe actually carry on the work. And i think that conflict exists a lot in campaign fund-raising feasibility studies. Do you think that exists here? Are there are there the same entities doing doing feasibility that also would carry the project through if if a project resulted? Yeah. You know, the feasibility studies are a good idea. And we saw our organizations do them. I mean, i almost every organizations we studied had a fund-raising feasibility study or community development feasibility study, but, you know, often often we the feasibility studies were useful for the organisation, but we also saw instances where if the feasibility study came back and didn’t give the results of the organization wanted, and sometimes we would be an organization, you get another feasibility study. Really? Oh, really, i did that with therapists therapist tells me something i don’t like. I just find a new therapist, but so organizations of doing that with their feasibility studies, some some are some are some are definitely not a general and general occurrence, but we did see a couple of instances. Okay? All right, well, that’s very disconcerting. Actually, we have just a couple of minutes left, and i’d like to just explore with you. Why? On a personal level? What? What motivates you about this research? Well, you know, funny now that you ask me this and it’s been part of my life for six or seven years now, and i wasn’t even it doesn’t even i can’t even remember how i got into it because it’s such a large part of my life now, honestly it comes from it. First comes from my love of the arts, and i’ve been in in the arts in some integral way, either working as an arts administrator, as an artist, as a a narc policy analyst sometime in my life, since i can remember that really does comes from my love for the art, and second to that i mean, because i do really value what the arts and culture contribute to society. I i do, and i’m very interested in sort of how to preserve the health of the sector as well, so that i would say probably what drives me to do all of this working honestly, it’s it’s incredibly interesting. I don’t know how you can not be interested in in all of the stories we got to hear this study and all of the great people that we met not an ivory tower academic at the university of chicago’s cultural policy center joanna veronica vich thank you very much. Thank you, it’s. Been a pleasure having you as a guest right now we take a break. And when we returned to tony’s, take two a little bit about last week’s show and a standup. Comedy clip. Stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks. Been radio speaks. Been. Radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. 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Fridays at twelve noon eastern on talking alternative dot com buy-in hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com zoho. Welcome back, some live listener love shoutout to nan you at new york and antelope california welcome, it’s time now for tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour on my block this week, you’ll find a list of the winners from last week’s sorry from the one two weeks ago, the one hundredth show. Two weeks ago we gave away on our of free consulting and some books and t shirts, and those winners were listed on my block, but also there’s a couple of stand up comedy clips, too short ones from a gig that i did at the gotham comedy club back in january. And the reason that was on my mind is because i just did a gig last wednesday night at the gotham comedy club also, so i thought i would put a few clips on my blogged from the january gig, and i’m going to play one for you, right? Ah, yes, right now to get into law school. Or are there any lawyers clap? If you’re a lawyer and willing to do cool, you know, to get into law school, you have to take the law school admission test there’s. A part on this test. I could never get my mind around. Logical reasoning. There are eight red flags and six green flag. Each person can hold one or two flags there’s, an odd number of women and an even number of men seated around a rectangular table. Who ate the hut door for lunch? Okay, a little clip from last january this past january of gotham comedy club and there’s another clip on my block, which you’ll find at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, july twenty seventh. Right now, i have a pre recorded interview from fund-raising day back in june, a couple of months ago with priti davidson about turning supporters into event honorees. Here’s that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand twelve in new york city were at the marriott marquis hotel in times square with me now is pretty davidson, and she is the director of development for the legal aid society of new york. Pretty welcome. Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. Thank you for taking time out on a very busy day. Your topic is converting supporters into event leaders. What type of leaders are you thinking about? We do one major fund-raising event every year. It’s, a corporate fundraiser for about a thousand people at the waldorf historia in every may on dh we have two honorees we do and one honoree from the legal community and one from the corporate community. The legal aid society is the oldest and largest not-for-profits public law firm in the country, and we have an extensive board made up of representatives from the top law firms in the country as well with headquarters in new york andare board is incredibly active, so generally we pick our legal honoree first, and it comes from our homegrown community of, um, from the legal community, okay, but i don’t see any reason to believe why this wouldn’t work for charities that have smaller galas and events resolutely your model, but what we’ve done this for? Well, well, well, we’ve done this event for thirty five years on dh i think in the last couple of years, what we’ve done differently is we’ve added a corporate honoree to try to expand our donor base from the legal community, broaden it to the corporate community and also you gonna fundez foundation fund-raising programming an individual donor program as well. Ok, now you’ve mentioned before we started that your model is different than traditional models, how is that? Back-up i think i think one thing that sets us apart is the deep roots that we have within the legal community there. Is no other charity that has the kind of commitment and the backing of the legal community that give us about close in nine million dollars a year, and so that those air relationships that some of them are over one hundred years old and those air very long term relationships that aren’t necessarily easily replicated owners who are over a hundred years the law firm’s air that, yes, the yes, some of our relationships with the firms are many, many years old, so we benefit from those long lasting relationships and are incredibly active board helps us pick our legal honoree on dh then we work closely with our with the legal honoree and with with the board again to to pick a corporate honoring, and we found that the model that works best is when the corporate honoree has some sort of a relationship to the legal honoree. Okay, so there’s a relationship there? Professional relationship, professional relationship. We’re able to leverage the relationship between the society and the honorees, thie honorees and their communities and their business communities in order to raise a cz much money is going on. Event leader, a gala leader, a leader of a gala of this sort could also be the chair doesn’t necessarily have to be the honoree. You include that the event chair in in your in your work, we do have a chair structure, we have chairs, vice chairs, we have a dinner committee and those air tied to giving levels, especially at the vice chair and dinner committee level dinner committee is anyone affiliated with a firmer corporation gives us ten thousand dollars in over or an individual and the vice chairs or twenty five thousand dollars, and over generally these air connected to our board, most of our board firms give it those leadership levels. Thie chairs are chosen in a number of ways. Thie honorees have an opportunity to pictures of their own on dh, then chairs are also appointed by the firms or the corporations that give it the highest levels. That would be the fifty hundred, one hundred fifty thousand dollar range on, and then we have honorary chairs, which our chairs in name only. Generally, they, they add, they bring a certain cachet to the events that usually very recognizable name, publicly recognizable name, but even around the honorary chairs is their expectations. About e-giving in a certain level, or or bringing a certain number of tables to the event? No, there is absolutely no expectation with the honorary chairs, their their their relationships that are held very closely, but by our honorees. And but i would say that in general honore teachers after the event will come back and make a gift to society in honor of the person. Okay, so what’s your advice about identifying the right people to be the the honorary arteries. So this is also where we’ve taken a little bit of a different approach, which i’m hoping will will will become more popular because it’s worked very well for us. We’re not looking for household names were not necessarily looking for people who everybody is going to be. Everybody would recognize if they looked at the invitation. We’re looking for people who are committed to raising money for us in the year that they’re being honored and we’re looking for people who may not have been necessarily honored in the past or sometimes over honored when lists air used over and over again, you go to the same well of people, you go to the same contacts. You don’t necessarily yield the best results, and i think they’re definitely unit new york is a really multifarious place, with many, many very successful people from different walks of life, and we’re thinking outside of the box when it comes to our corporate honorees and not necessarily looking for the name recognition, but looking for someone who’s really willing to roll up their sleeves and help us, the commitment is more important absolutely go absolutely and were very clear from the get go. What? What the expectations are what the commitment. Very next question. So how do you set the first? How do you determine what the expectations should be from honoree dahna region that that may vary from year to year? It does. So this is our our primary about this is this is the main event way did too. In the past and as many organizations have done, we scale backto one. And we put all of our resource is all of our staff time, all of our energy into this one event, and we have every reason because, yes, it is absolutely due to the reception recession excuse me? And it was probably about four years. Ago? Um, i’ve been at the legal aid society for three years, and i’ve i’ve helped oversee three dinners the first year was was very successful in my tenure because our new president, finn fog, became incredibly involved with this process, and i have to say that the fund-raising actually comes from our internal leadership. Our president are the chair of our board, our attorney in chief, members of our board are out there fund-raising forest constant that’s critical, and everybody doesn’t enjoy that they’d like to, but everybody doesn’t have that. This is one of the most active boards that i’ve ever professionally been involved with. So how about the the expectation setting for the honorees? So, it’s s o, i’m sorry to interrupt your sorry you’re setting the expectation at the point where you’re inviting to be an honor before they absolutely get it before they’ve except okay, so our model is is what is basically we’re looking for the trifecta the society raises a third, the corporate honoree raises the third in the legal on honoree raises a certain man, and this is this is not necessarily a strategy that that way set out with its one. That’s developed over the last three years, so in that first year we’re able to take this event used to raise just about a million dollars. In that first year, we’re able to raise two point, four million dollars with and that was the year that that set the tone for this model. So when we sit down with perspective, honorees and it’s generally not ah, host of leadership going to talk to that honoree it’s generally the person holding the closest relationship okay, the one on one conversation and were very clear about what the expectations aren’t it’s somewhere between eight hundred thousand and a million dollars and the and the expectations are in writing, the expectations were are not in writing during the point of where, when the commitment is being made afterwards, we do follow-up with very detailed timelines, and we cried a lot of administrative support. Another thing that’s been really crucial is that the honorees in the last three years have set aside some of their personal staff to help us so that we always have a lease on in their office and we’re working very, very closely and and quite seamlessly on this project. With them okay, okay are the expectations just about that money, but but not into sharing contacts and contact lists and vendor lists and things like the vendor? Listen, the contactless the business and personal contact lists are made available to us by the honorees. They’re sort of the expectations. It is definitely part of the expectation. It’s it’s the road map to how we raise that that kind of money, the other thing that we looked at very closely is where the common relationships, where the two honorees have a relationship in common, either with an individual, a firmer corporation or where the trifecta works really well is when all three of us have interest in the same entity, okay? And as you’re inviting people to be the honoree because they haven’t accepted yet, we’re still just setting the expectations. How do you explain that there’s benefit for them? A cz being honoree to be honored? I think the legal aid society is an incredibly prestigious and well known organization. We have a very, very prestigious board on dso. We’re talking about people who are asking other important business people to participate with them. An adventure that serves new york city there are over two million people living at or below the poverty line in new york city, and we address many incredibly crucial issues for them, and i think that our reputation is really well known. We have not had a problem so on then for smaller charities mean, what they might do is emphasize the value of their work, their niche that they serve in the community and help the honoree recognize that being allied with that level of with that type of work is valuable because we’re talking about someone who’s already committed to the organization and its work. So just thinking, you know, if someone doesn’t enjoy the reputation that legal aid society does it’s it’s really emphasizing your work and the of the alliance between the person or the corporate and or the corporation? Well, thunders generally want to help solve problems. So even for ah, smaller organization if if you’re able to make the case for for why your relevant why you’re crucial to whatever community or in larger small, i think of thunder is going to pay attention um, and and and i think funders are also interested in helping to raise the profile of worthy causes and using their name recognition in order to do that as well. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems block a little? Help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. 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Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Talking. Hyre right? So the next step let’s say the person has agreed they’ll be the honoree. What what happens now comes the sharing of the timeline and on dh support begins we we actually actually, prior to that joint during the courting phase, we prepare a packet of materials that includes the videos we do a video every year for for this dinner, some years it highlights clients and case studies some other years it highlights sort of our more are broader impact and some of the larger issues that may not that we may not be known for in the communities bond, so that that packet of information helps kind of situate the individual, especially the one from the corporate community, because they aren’t as familiar with our work is the legal community is on. Then, after they’ve made the commitment we set up, we usually do a breakfast to introduce them to our leadership are the chair of our board of our development committee, myself and my mind top person, the president and the attorney in chief. Way more to get to know you breakfast. I generally like to go and meet with their office on by people who are going to be on the ground face-to-face relationship that isn’t just by phone and e mail it’s absolutely crucial att some point and sometimes it’s it’s not always possible, but where possible i highly recommend it. I also think that you won’t have actually becoming what you worked very closely with them and friendly enjoy a close and friendly working relationship. And i think at the end of it, we all sort of breathe a sigh of relief because there definitely ups and downs and and and we’re kind of in it together in the trenches. And how soon before how early before a kn event do you begin the process? Thie well, so we just had our event on may tenth, and i think that night we started talking about next year s o we try to waste no time it’s not always possible. We try to get our honorees securities soon as possible, ideally before the end of the summer for, um, a event would would be great. We would do ah first round of letters that fall to their contactless. We also have the process when we when we when we obtain the contact list that we’ve to get it into our system and so there’s there’s um data entry involved there on preparing ourselves administratively to be able to handle the workload at some point in in either early december, before before the season hits or or if for whatever reason, were delayed in early january, we do a save the date, okay on dh, then we send way send directed solicitation letters to a number of people that we identify on the three list, the society’s list and the two honoree lists after that way do a lot of leg work, it’s a lot of getting in front of people and calling her contacts and keeping track of who’s calling who? So we’re not when, when their interests, when we’re interested in the same prospect that we’re not, we’re not double calling, right, right? Because between the three of you, that could be overlap, and it was a lot of other absolutely avoid that my office is responsible for making sure that coordinating all the efforts okay, onda about follow-up after the event with the chair with the sari with the with the honorees way, try to keep in in close contact with the honorees, to be perfectly honest, we could do better in this realm, and i think there’s a lot of non-profits that struggle with what to do after the dinner, clearly, with the honoree from our legal community, they will continue to sort of go back and be a part of that community. It’s it’s more of a challenge with a corporate honoree? They didn’t they didn’t come to us with with the relationship already established, and it is, i think, it’s naive to think that even though they did great work for us over the course of the year that we’re gonna have them as lifelong supporters, i think we’ve been very fortunate that we’ve had very generous honorees who continue to support the society after being honored, but we’re still we’re still trying to figure out how to continue to make that that connection beyond the event, we also has the best practice, you know, we will continue to communicate with people who came to the event and or made a gift to the event, but we don’t circulate. We don’t we don’t their lists don’t get absorbed into our database unless the person has has shown interest in being involved in some custody, and when you’re in the heat of the event, thes air may events so in early mayor mid may well, end of may will give me ten it’s really bad. All right, so so hyre mid april, too late april what’s what’s keeping you up, what’s what’s really the most one or two things that you’re most concerned about, right? Two to three weeks before you know, we we do, we do a lot of our fund-raising on the front end, it’s incredibly important, and i think part of the secret to our success, that and a best practice in fund-raising that we’ve been able to get, i’d say two thirds to three quarters were fund-raising done before the invitation goes out, so not stressing about about hitting the goal at that point, i think that they’re r i think the stress and legwork comes over the course of january, february and march, where we’re doing the bulk of the solicitation and fund-raising in order to get the names on the invite, and then we found that first year we raised, i think it was one point three million or one point, four million dollars. Before the invite went out in eight hundred thousand dollars, came in after that, i think people want to be a part of a success, and success breeds success and we could use the money. Ok, but so what is it now? I’m gonna ask you again, what a couple of weeks, two or three weeks before, what is it that’s keeping you awake? Details it’s, you know, seating a thousand people for dinner is not easy there constant changes getting those lists, getting guests lists to come. I mean, there there are people there last minute changes that happened an hour before the event and making sure that our ducks in a row but i have to say that i’m not stressing anymore. This is our third my third year of doing this with it, with a great team and with a great with great invent consultants, we use susan ulan associates, they’re fantastic and i’m not stressing actually go in the weeks before the event and this year actually enjoyed the event xero which was a first for me and all right, so why did you leave listeners with just one tip? If you have to say there’s one thing that they really should take away from converting the there there’s serious, they’re they’re hyre level donors and committed people, too. Two honoree, what would that be? Well, i think that we’re very fortunate that philanthropy is very much a part of american culture and it’s been ingrained in all of us at some point to be involved in our communities and give back i thinkit’s a deeply american construct, and i feel that, you know, converting a leadership into honorees is a process. It takes time and it’s a process that it’s again it’s, another level of relationship building that, you know, if we’re able to make the compelling arguments to an outside audience, that we know why our organization’s make a difference in this world, that message is very clear, and i think that there’s a lot of people were incredibly receptive to that. So while it might take a little bit of time if it’s done the right way, you’ll have lasting results. Thank you very much. Pretty davidson is director of development for the legal aid society of new york. Been a pleasure having you as a guest. Thankyou. Thankyou, tony. My pleasure, tony. Martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand twelve at the marriott marquis in new york city my thanks too pretty and also the organizer’s of fund-raising day and, of course, also to joanna veronica vich i hope you’ll be with me next week. I hope you’ll be listening next week. It’s audit week you’re hr owed it starts off karen bradunas human resource is consultant returns to the show there may be things hiding in your hr closet that you need to bring out and dust off to avoid problems later on, we’ll talk about your benefits, plan immigration, paperwork and that’s not only for immigrants and what to do if you get audited by federal or state regulators and then your social media audit, scott koegler continues our discussion from the one hundredth show on sites that help you assess how you’re doing in social media sites like hoot suite market me sweet and radiant. Six scott’s the editor of non-profit technology news and our regular tech contributor. We’re all over social media you can’t make a click without sparkle a testa it’s a tony martignetti non-profit radio means you can’t make a quick without smacking your head into us, but today, just focus on linkedin linked in group is probably a couple of months old now. Next time you’re on linked in for podcast listeners, please join the group comment on the show or there’s also an active discussion going on now about about social media so it doesn’t have to it’s not limited to subjects on this show. Please join the linked in group and i want to start wishing you good luck and good fortune in the words of artists throughout the world and this week i’m starting with italian in boca lupo, which means in the mouth of the wolf, and you would say that to someone as just as they’re going on stage in italy. In boca lupo, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I very much hope you’ll be listening. Listening next week or the week will be on friday one to two p m eastern at talking alternative dot com in bocca al lupo i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Dahna