Tony’s guests this week:
Amy Sample Ward, our social media contributor, CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network and co-author of “Social Change Anytime Everywhere.”
Also, Gene Takagi, our legal contributor and principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guest this week:
Marcy Heim, frequent speaker; major gift fundraising coach & consultant; and The Artful Asker.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
Cam Robbins, interactive marketing producer for Easter Seals, and Matt Burghdoff, senior account executive at Donordigital.
Also, Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now!”
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
Page Bullington, resource manager at Blackbaud.
George Durney, director of sales at Target Analytics.
Gene Takagi, principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group.
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
Professor John List, chair of the Economics Department and founder of the Science of Philanthropy Initiative at University of Chicago
Chuck Longfield, chief scientist at Blackbaud
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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It’s tony martignetti non-profit radio hello and welcome to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. The campaign for five hundred stars ongoing. We’ve more than doubled the number of ratings on itunes. I thank you very much for that the campaign is ongoing. We want to get one hundred ratings on itunes, so please go to non-profit radio dot net and then click view in itunes and raped the show. Thank you very much for how far we’ve come. Oh, i very much hope that you were with me last week. I couldn’t stand to learn that you had missed aye, aye and you ex information architecture er and the user experience. Lacey kruger lied information architect that blackbaud and misty maclachlan, the company’s principal user experience consultant, had lots of ideas to help you design your online properties for success so that visitors return and supporters stay engaged and tech trends. Scott koegler, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, told us how he sees non-profits using computing to fulfill unique needs engaged through the social networks, customize their own computing and what he expects to see more. Of in the future this week lead and matching gif ts in your campaign professor john list from the university of chicago chairs the economics department and founded the science of philanthropy initiative or spy. No longer must fundraisers rely on tradition and conventional wisdom in campaign planning, you have rigorous science to guide you around lead and matching gif ts how big should lead gift be to impact e-giving well, a one to one match raise as much as a three to one match. You’ll be glad that you’re sing and many matching corporate gif ts chuck longfield, chief scientist at blackbaud, has lots of simple ways to increase your matching gif ts from corporations tap into the annual one point four billion dollars from twenty thousand companies. Did you know that volunteer hours are also dollar matched by many companies? We’ll start with the sector benchmarking and go from there, and that interview was pre recorded. It blackbaud twenty twelve bb con conference. My pleasure now to welcome john list he’s the homer jay livingston, professor and chairman in the department of economics at the university of chicago. He’s expert in the science of philanthropy and his new project the science of philanthropy initiative spy is funded by the john templeton foundation. It’s, a research and outrage venture and we’re going to talk about his research and spies, outreach to charities and how you can participate. Professor john list. Welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s. A pleasure to have you from chicago. You getting snow out there? The way we’re getting inundated died here in new york. Not too much, but it is pretty icy here. So it is. It is difficult driving conditions here, tony. Okay, well, i’m glad you’re safe in your little office. I was, you know, i like to picture academics. You know, my major was economics that i was an economics major at carnegie mellon university. That’s why you’re so smart now, that’s. Because i was rejected by the university of chicago. I hope you were not share in nineteen. I would have been applying in nineteen. Eighty. I hope you were not chair in nineteen. Eighty. I was not. I was actually in eighth grade in nineteen. Eighty rock. Okay, well, you’re a little younger than me, but you don’t look it from your photo now, okay? Let’s, talk about spy. This work is very interesting. Like i said in the in the lead in no longer must charities rely on conventional wisdom? Let’s, start with your methodology around campaigns. What are you doing? I think that right? I think when i first i became interested in this area, tony what i what i found was that you had a bunch of really good people, a bunch of really good hearted people who were basing their decisions. Mohr on anecdotes and gut feelings. Right, then the actual scientific method. So when i say scientific method, what i mean by that is basic a basic experiment. So in that basic experiment, it’s always important to have a control group. Because then when you have ah, treatment groups such as some people might get a one to one match. You want to always compare that to a group of people who did not receive a match? Okay, that’s what? I call a program that’s the control group. Watch out. I have george in jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio. You you scared it closely. But you then you defined control. You could define control group. So you’re clear, but watch out. Okay, all right, so so we have. This is this is the scientific method. We have a control group in a test group or treatment group. And how have you been applying this to campaigns beyond matching? Sure, sure. So when i first started, i was presented with a problem at the university of central florida. So at the university of central florida, the deen challenged me to start a center to do research in environmental policy and what the dean said it is. John, you are responsible for raising money to start the research center. So of course, the first question becomes different in need of resource is for a capital project. What are the first steps i should take? And the fundraisers will tell you you should secure a fraction of the money privately before going public. So, as an economist, i asked a simple question. Well, what is the optimal fraction? What i essentially found? Wass ah, bunch of anecdotes about what that fraction should be. For example, the fund-raising school recommended that forty to fifty percent of the goal should be pledged before the public campaign begins. Other hand books recommended figures between twenty and fifty percent. Right around the same time the university of wisconsin was building there. Cole center, which houses the basketball team in the hockey team. And what they had done in the quiet period is they’re gone out. And gathered twenty seven of their seventy two million dollar goal. So as you can see that the evidence is sort of scattered all over the place. And i simply asked, how do we know which fraction is correct? And very few people had actual scientific evidence to back up their claims that a certain fraction was actually the correct fraction to gather in private before going public. Okay, so he looks just exactly is i didn’t set up a direct mail solicitation, and i split ten thousand households into different buckets or different groups. In one group i advertised, we’re looking for money for our center for environmental policy analysis here at the university of central florida, and we already have ten percent of what we need. We already have that from an anonymous donor. If you know, another group of hall souls received a different kind of letter. It was identical in all respects, except it said that we already have thirty three percent of the of the goal. And another group received a letter that said, we have already saved sixty seven percent of the goal and then the fourth group, which is our control group received the letter. But there was no mention that we have received up front money. Okay? And so this was to our knowledge to your knowledge, is was the first scientific method rigorous test at least that you could find of different match is having an impact on thie outcome of giving? And what did you find that’s? Exactly, right. So what we found is that over that range from ten to sixty seven percent that the more you advertising seed money, the more gifts that you will receive. So in this particular study, what we’ve found was that most people gave and those who were going to give actually gave mohr so the more seed money you have, you wouldn’t do it more people to give and those people who would have given anyways they actually give mme or when you have ah hyre level of seed money. Okay, interesting. And so you did this work. University of central florida. You were then stolen away, recruited away to the university of chicago for more sophisticated work. E well, i don’t know about that, but, you know, there were a few stops in between. I ended up going to the university of arizona, and then from there, i went to the university of maryland and well, i was at the university of maryland. I spent a year working in the white house at the council of economic advisers, and then after that, i came here to chicago to get smarter. Okay, well, you work your way north from from two very south locations. Work your way to the northeast and then the frigid chicago area. We’re going to take a break right now, john, and when we come back, we’ll talk about that more sophisticated work and how it’ll applies to charitable giving. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public lasts or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back. We’re talking with professor john list from university of chicago about leading matching gift in your campaign. I have to send live listener love somebody, somebody in chicago was listening. John, you’ll be gratified to know that there’s a listener in chicago and it was very good. New bern, north carolina, bethlehem, pennsylvania and washington, new jersey live listener love going out also to taipei, taiwan and shang xero change china. I don’t know how to pronounce it. C h a n g s h z chung’s. We’re doing the best we can here. China s o tio taiwan and china ni hao. All right, professor john. Now that you’re at the university, your work has expanded and you’re doing work now with some pretty large charities. Want you describe that that’s, right? That’s. Right, tony, um, you know, after you established that upfront money is important, you can ask yourself, well, should we be using that money is simply an announcement like i did at the university of central florida? Or should we be using it as an announcement and is a match? So, for example, you could say an anonymous daughter just gave us one million. Dollars now we will use those funds is a match. So, for example, for every dollar that you give, we will match with a dollar of this donors. So we ended up taking that idea, which, of course, is a common idea in fund-raising to a simple, direct mail experiment with the sierra club of canada and what we were interested in there it was simply testing the idea of announcing money, which i did at the university of central florida campaign versus announcing money and using it as a one to one match. And what we found there again, we’re we’re sending out tens of thousands of letters two households essentially using the normal ask that the sierra club uses. But here some households receive a letter that has, for example, no mention of this upfront money and that’s, a control group. Other households received the match other households received. We have some money. But there is no match campaign. And what we found there is that again. Seed money works quite well. What i mean by seed money is that if you have up front money that’s very effective in generating people to give but the interesting thing there is that the one to one match worked about as well. Is the seed money treatment in both of them worked much better than the control group. Okay. Okay. Now, the one to one match. This is with the sierra club of canada. The one to one match, you said worked a little bit better than the leadership gift announcement. Actually, they were the leadership gift announcement. Worked slightly better, but they were okay, but they were statistically the same. If you look at them throughout statistical tests, they were about the same. Okay. Okay. And that was a one to one match. Now, what do we know about the what have you learned about the differences between different levels of match? One, two. One, two, one. One, two, two, etcetera. Exactly. You know, tony that’s a great question. Because that’s that’s clearly the next step in the research agenda. And when you look a man, i should have been a profess xero economics. I did well to carnegie mellon. I have no shot having gone there so way. Always have a spot here for you at the university. Thank you, thie that you know, you’re not the dean. Just need department chair. Well, no, i’m just a lowly department there. Department chair, while i’ll use you for my letter of recommendation. All right? Absolutely. Okay. What do we know about how these different levels of matching compare? Yeah. That’s a good question, because you know, the anecdotal evidence out in the field is that obviously a three to one match should work. A lot better than a one to one match in a three to one match, of course is, for every dollar that you give, the charity will match with three dollars and the one the one every dollar you give the charity will match with a dollar. But of course, when we went out to the literature, we could not find any scientific evidence that indeed a three. The one match was better than a one to one mad again. Just a lot of conventional wisdom. And this is the tradition. Absolutely. Okay, absolutely. Which, of course, drives an economics professor. Not what we don’t have any data or scientific evidence to back up that finding. All right. Here’s. Where we? Yeah, here’s. Where we part company c i should probably just settle for an honorary. Ph d from the university because it hasn’t driven me as nuts as it has you, but i’m glad it has go ahead. Absolutely so this time we teamed with the national liberal non-profit in the us, which does political and socially oriented work, and i have to be careful because i cannot mention the non-profit due to a non disclosure agreement that we made with them. But essentially the background is that every month they send about fifty thousand letters, too. They’re regular donors, and they asked them for money and essentially what we did is, again we put the households into different buckets or different groups. In one bucket, you had households that received a one to one match offer. In another group, households received a two to one match offer, and in a third group, households received a three to one match offer. And then, of course, we compare that to a fourth group, which is the control group, right? No match, no match at all, which they received, you know, a typical letter that says we’re looking for money to help the cause, so to speak. Okay, so what we found here is that if you just look at the data amongst those households that received a match offer versus those households that did not receive any match offer. You raise about nineteen percent more money in those matching treatments compared to the control group. Excellent. And the interesting part is that effect occurs entirely on what an economist calls the extensive margin. And what i mean by that is that nineteen percent occurs entirely because the response rate went up about twenty two percent. So more people decided to give. When there was a match available, they still gave the same amount per person. But more people give when there’s a match available. So so the effect is not because people are giving mohr, but because more people are giving exactly. And this. And then the level of giving doesn’t change among among all the people who give versus the control group that’s, right? So if you were going to give anyway, on average, you give the same amount. But you just get twenty two percent more people to give some money rather than give nothing. And is that impacted at all by the level of the match? Exactly. So the other finding that we that just jumps out at you in the data. Is that the three to one, the two to one and the one to one match groups perform identically. Are you sure about that, e? I mean, nasa has made mathematical errors, and they forgot to convert you forgot to convert fahrenheit into celsius or something like that. Are you sure about this? I mean, it happened, you know, if you hadn’t. If you haven’t double check your math, i’ll understand. But i’ll tell you what. I have double and triple checked my math, and i’ve also gone to other charities, and i’ve done the same kind of experiment with amnesty international with liar, a beat, a children’s hospital. And what we find over and over again is that having match dollars, really? That really matters a lot. But the size of the match does not matter. Ah, that’s. Very interesting. Very interesting. And contrary to all that conventional wisdom that we were talking about. Okay, so the one to one match pulls well, has has the same effect as the three to one match. Okay, if you’re sure okay, what about the one, two two or one two, three. Where? A dollar gets fifty cents or something like that or those types of matches exactly that’s very good questions. So we have now extended that original experiment all the way down on the other side, so we’ve looked at one to two and we have looked at one, two, three and again one, two, three and one, two, two are the same as one to one. So at least over the range that we’ve experimented with one toe, one all the way down to one, two, three and all the way up to three, two, one we find the same result that people give the same amount of money. Now, i think we need to take care here, because if we would go all the way, say, for example, to one to one hundred, if you give one hundred dollars, we will match with one dollars, i’m pretty sure that would not work very well, although that’s a gut feeling, so i i i i don’t want to break my own rules, right? Because that’s, just my intuition that suggests if you go that far, you can actually hurt your capital campaign, but i don’t have any empirical evidence for that okay, john list is the homer jay livingston, professor of economics and chair of the department at the university of chicago, and we’re talking mostly about his work through the science of philanthropy initiative at the university spy, which you’ll find at s p i hub dot or ge, and we’re going to talk about working with it’s by very shortly. All right, john. So now we don’t know one, two one, two a one hundred match that would i guess you would expect that to be different than a one to one match, but we don’t have any evidence of that, right? That’s correct. Okay. Do you plan to test a match that that that’s that largest to see if there where where the boundary is that the one to one effect breaks down? You know, i would love to. And just exactly as you mentioned. Always looking for partners to try ideas such as that one. And i think that’s exactly. The next step that the research will take is is where does the match the effectiveness of the match actually break down? I think it’s a great research question and one in which i do wish. To explore. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Now you have some evidence of how this works on ah, dahna ah, warm list versus a cold list. Why don’t you describe those and what? That what those outcomes are exactly. Exactly. So when we think about warm list, what? The way that we differentiate people in data sets is a warm list is a person who has given to our cause within the last three years. So if you’ve given ten dollars or ten million dollars within the last three years, we label you is a warm list person. Ah, cold list person is a person who has not given to our cause in the last three years. So that just gives you some definitions of the way that we think about cold lest versus warm list. Now you’re exactly right to pinpoint that feature in our data. What we find is that the cold less people are more influenced by the match, then the warm list people it’s. Not that the wordless people are not influenced by the match because indeed, warm, less people are influenced by the match. They’re just not as influenced as much. Is the coldness, people? Okay, okay. And they’re influenced in what way the proportion of giving is greater, right? Because we’re talking about more people giving not people giving mohr money exactly it’s exactly proportion all about the number ofthe coldness people who give above and beyond the number of coldness people who give in the control group. Okay, okay. Interesting. All right, let’s, move to. Well, let’s, let’s spend a little time talking about the partnership. We have more to talk about your research in terms of leadership gifts. We’ve just been talking about matching gifts, but you’re you’re actively looking for charity partners to work with, right? Absolutely. So, you know, we’ve just we’ve just begun. We’ve just started spy hub dot org’s is you mentioned earlier, and even though my own research, i’ve been doing work in philanthropy now, since nineteen ninety eight, we have just received a very generous grant from the john templeton foundation that allows us more opportunities and more time toe work with those charities out there who are interested in partnering with us. Remember, you’re gonna have to put up with our craziness because we’re academics. We have crazy ideas. Yeah, you should see your listeners if you go to my block. You’ll see you’ll see john’s, head shot and there’s all kinds of mathematical equations behind him on a blot on a blackboard. There’s, not even a whiteboard. I was surprised i would have thought for sure university chicago would be using whiteboard technology, but not in your classroom anyway. Unless it’s an old photo it’s it’s chalk on a blackboard and you have the and use lambda in your and some of your equations that would know lambda always scared me as i was as i was doing economics, studying econometrics and regression analysis. I don’t know why just lambda lambda just seems intimidating to me lambda i don’t know a couple of lamb does behind so yeah, i looked at your picture way linda brings up everybody still old school here. I’m sitting in my office right now and i actually have a blackboard in my office which has lambda written on it. You do see that’s? Why i’m getting a bad vibe going toe. I want to bring out the love cristal here. Couple of a couple of shows ago someone held the crystal court’s love krystal i’m getting a bad vibe till and it’s a lambda thing for me? I don’t know why i just since my econometrics days, lam does giving me trouble. All right, we have just a couple minutes before break. So let’s, keep talking about eso charities. Should charities that are interested in putting up with you go to s p i hub dot or gq? Or how do they get information? That’s, right? I think that’s a good spot to go to or, you know, you can actually google me if you google john list. You know, i promise you i’m not the mass murder. That guy will come up first. I’ll probably come up second. Zoho is there one of those? Okay, yeah. You know, john list is a very unfortunate name, but, you know, my email address you can email me here at the university of chicago, it’s jade list at u chicago daddy to you. And, you know, we can begin discussions about forming a partnership. Our bottom line is this we don’t charge for what we do, but what we expect is that we can use the data that is generated from the cause you know, from the telephone or the direct mailer or the or the banquet that we could actually use those data when we write academic papers or we do radio interviews or television interviews. And what have you that that’s, really, the only cost is that you allow us to work with the data and pushed the knowledge frontier in this particular sector, because that’s, really what we’re in it for, we’re not in it to make money ourselves way really want the sector to undergo a scientific revolution, because we believe so strongly in this sector. Okay, on dh, this can be done anonymously, right? The charity name doesn’t have to be in your research. Okay, absolutely. All right, we’re gonna take a break, and professor list stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. Co-branding dick, dick tooting. Good ending. Ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. E-giving you get it, are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I got more live listener love of going abroad. Taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, seoul, korea. Anya haserot, valencia, spain. Ola and who? Nador a romania i don’t know how to say hello, but i’ve been in your neighborhood. I’ve been to moldova. I spent a week in moldova a few years ago. Okay? Professor list way told charities how they can get involved with you. Let’s, move to your research on leadership gif ts what was that about? So? So what the leadership gives essentially are about is that if you receive upfront money, there are many different ways to use that up front money. You can simply announce it is we did at the university of central florida. You can use it as a matching gift. Is we just talked about, or you can use it, for example, for small gifts. You know, small daughter gets teo to give to people who actually give to your cause. Or you can actually use it for lottery prizes. If you wanted teo to link people’s contributions to a possibility, tto win a large prize. Those are other ways in which you could use upfront money as well. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, go. Ahead what we’ve been finding is that if you actually link the donation to ah probability of winning a prize that you khun considerably increased giving rates, in fact, is much is one hundred percent, and most of that result is actually on again the extensive margin more people are giving when they have a chance to win a prize. Okay, um, and how does how does this type of e-giving compare with the one to one match? You know, this type of giving is in the range of a one to one match. So if your ah, if you’re thinking about going out and using up front money, what we’ve been finding is that a one to one match works about as well is ah, lottery where you where you give away a large prize, say a thousand dollars to one of the donors it works about equally as well as a one to one match. Okay. Okay. Um, these are too different types of inducements. This is interesting. Is that the, uh one to one match is conditional on the person giving and the the other is not it’s it’s. Definitely. What? Why that? What is that difference? Mean, exactly. So what we’ve been finding you pinpointed a very important fact in our data is that on the one case one to one match, those dollars essentially are conditional in the sense that you have to give one hundred dollars to have the anonymous donor gives one hundred dollars. We’re a leadership gift is essentially the the lead daughter giving money that’s unconditional. So what we’ve been finding is that that unconditional gift tends to be slightly stronger, a slightly stronger signal to donors. Then the match gift is, and we think that’s because the signaling value off that gift and what i mean by signaling value is this anonymous donor probably knows mohr information about the charitable cause than i do. So if i see her giving a large amount of money for the cause, that sends a signal to me that charitable dr is a good one. It’s a good signal of charitable quality, that’s what our data points to time in and time again, that the leadership, a gift is a very important signal of the quality of the charitable dr. Okay, okay. Let’s, i want to talk a little about what you’re what you’re doing next. You have some interesting research that you’re working on your next project, the one one and done right? Yeah, right, please. Yeah, that’s good that you bring that up because this is a project that right now has a lot of my attention, and this is a project that we’ve worked in partnership with smile train so smile train is a wonderful organization that takes care of cleft palates of of the youth overseas, so they send doctors overseas to take care of this very dreaded birth defect. And with them, we’ve developed a program which we call once and done and essentially it’s a direct mail solicitation. But within that direct mail solicitation, it says, give now and we will never bother you again if you check this box. John, we have just a minute left. Give, tell us briefly what? What? The impact of that is sure what we’ve been finding we’ve sent to about eight hundred thousand people in what we’ve been fighting is that if you use once and done, you can raise about three times more money, then you can with the control group onley thirty four percent of the people will actually check the box. And when you look into the future, you don’t actually lose donors. You raised just as much money in the future. Is you raised from the control group in the once and done group. So, in essence, you raised about three times more money in the initial mailer, and it does not compromise future fundez from those people. Okay, we have to sort of leave it there. I think you should call it one and done, though not once. And done. You’re missing the good alliteration opportunity wanted done. No one gift. And you’re done. Remember how many economists not an english professor? Would you go for the goal for the liberation? I don’t have more punch one and done. I think you should rename it one and done. But obviously, the impact on the outcome is what’s. More important, jonathan. Thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you very much. I look forward to talking to you soon. Tony. My pleasure. John list, chair of the department of economics at the university of chicago. You confined him at s p i hub. Dot org’s, spy hub dot or ge and he and i will be in touch to schedule the date for my honorary ph d ceremony. I have to do tony’s take too, because i want to keep john on, so i put that off a little bit it’s the five hundred stars campaign very, very simple. We’re trying to get one hundred five star ratings for the show it’s already having an impact, the show is trending it’s in category called what’s hot in non-profits on itunes and also in government and organizations on itunes s o you’re having an impact, i’d be grateful if we could just get to the get even more get to that goal of one hundred five star ratings. We start at non-profit radio dot net and then click view in itunes and that’s all explained more on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is the tonys. Take two for friday, february eighth, which is the sixth show of this year now i have for you ah pre recorded interview from bb khan twenty twelve last year. Chuck longfield, the chief scientist there at blackbaud and our subject was matching corporate gif. Ts hears that. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of b become twenty twelve blackbaud conference where outside washington dc gaylord convention center with me now is chuck longfield trick is chief scientist blackbaud chuck. Welcome. Thank you. Nice to be here. It’s a pleasure to have things very much. Your session topic yesterday was don’t leave money on the table. Ten proven practices for success with magic gift let’s start with a very basic why shoot a charity spent time with matching gives his reforms there’s compliance is going to be back and forth with companies. Why is this worth it? I’m currently about a little over a billion dollars a year is given by corporations to matching gets about one point four billion dollars it’s about twenty thousand companies in america that will match their gifts, about half of the fortune five hundred have matching gifts, they’ll match donations, and a number of them will also match volunteer hours. So, for example, if you volunteer at a non-profit you work for microsoft, they’ll actually pay you fourteen dollars for every hour that you don’t pay the non-profit fourteen dollars for every hour they volunteer and some companies if you give them a thousand dollar donation or one hundred dollar donation, they’ll match it. Oneto one, two to one, three to one. So it’s in a sense, it’s kind of newfound money caused fund-raising isn’t all that high. There are some compliance issues and paper forms and such but that’s getting easier. So in general there’s there’s a big opportunity and i’ve done a lot of research that has shown that most companies are not doing nearly enough in this area and they could be substantially increasing their revenue several percent if they pursue some of these practices. How recent is the bee in person volunteer time it’s been a mean it’s been in place for a while now. It’s a relatively new thing but it’s it’s been in place for a while. Okay, so it’s worth the small administrative time that’s right in the past. The way the process worked was the employee was encouraged to go to the hr department. More recently go to the internet at their company. Get a form. Fill out the form. Send it into the non-profit. Non-profit indicates that they indeed got the donation. They send it on to the company. The company over time has been outsourcing this to other companies to do the paperwork. So it’s actually been someone burned some authority, but the internet and a lot of links now have made this easier. So most employees now just encouraged to go to a a site. They could indicate that they made this donation and the paperwork is all done. So, for example, there’s, a company in new jersey that j k group that works with many of the fortune five hundred companies, and they have a website called easy match and you use easy match the processing for the nonprofit for the employees, for the corporations made much easier. Okay, e-giving listen, is the name of that company one more time? The company actually is kind of in the background, but their website is called easy match zizi match daikon. No, i’m sorry. E a s y m a c h dot com. Okay, hyre so what was what was the first piece of advice that you shared on building this magic gift? So one of the pieces of advice which actually wasn’t the first, but i’ll start with it is the benchmark with against your peers. So in different organizations, latto have different resources, there are organizations that have probably like yours that that i realize a greater percentage of matching gift dollars, and so when you’re actually looking at the opportunity. So for example, if your university, there were many universities, now that a matching five, six, seven percent of the total revenue with matching gifts. So if you’re doing one percent in your university, you’d say, well, how are they getting five percent to finally get one percent? If you are a public broadcasting station, good public broadcasting stations, air getting three or four percent, most public broadcasting stations are getting well under one percent so they can look at their numbers and they say, well, why am i not getting three or four percent? So it’s a good way by benchmark king first to quantify the game that you might realize really, it does vary considerably. Sounds like across different charitable vision. Well, it doesn’t, and in fact, the public broadcasting stations could probably achieve five, six, seven percent that they would need to actually start doing some of the things that comes more easily to a university, like knowing where their people work so university can collect that more easily. Where’s, the public broadcasting station might have more trouble finding out that you work for ibm, but but still the real issue is that if you know how well some of your better peers are performing, you can actually estimate what how much money is at stake for you. And then the actual practices are relatively easy. I joked in my presentation that there’s a surgeon, a tool go on, they wrote a great book called checklist manifesto, and he pointed out in the book that if doctors washed their hands, they would get ten thousand fewer patients a year would die of infections, and book doctors don’t always wash their hands. In fact, the substantial number don’t well, then matching gifts. The analogy is that if you want substantially more matching gift dollars, all you have to do is remember who matched last year and remind them when they give this year to match again. So it’s, not rocket science. But if you do it, you actually would boost your matching gets there’s a few practices like that that are relatively straight forward, okay. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Before we go back to the rest of the interview, we gotta send live listener love to estero, florida and new york, new york, new york, new york finally where you guys been? Okay, here’s, the rest of the chuck longfield interview my share, another short, simple fun i could find simple and fun that’s, right? So another one is is that a lot of people now moving, too websites to make donations it’s relatively easy to but on your website another line which says that if you work for a matching gift company, please match and you can actually hyper link it to the list of matching cos the twenty thousand companies so somebody, if they do work, they can click, they can look up apple computer, they click on apple computer indicate that they work for apple and the process can begin. And in fact, with somebody like apple, the next thing you’ll be directed to do is click on easy match and the process basically would be finished. Type in your employee i d number indicate that you made the gift and be off. Is that a list of twenty thousand proprietary? You have to be working. With a company to be ableto hyperlink super vis, yes, it’s actually it’s a very low cost and smith it’s made available by two companies, blackbaud is one kapin is and now the gp is another, and it costs about a thousand dollars to license the soft with the list of companies and an awful lot of companies already licensed. It put it on their website, but yes, a small and midsize non-profit that’s not doing that should do it because it’s relatively easy, and then the donor is self serving, servicing themselves, they’re indicating it moving on got another like he’s fun. Well, another one is, is that if you’re a regional non-profit so say europe non-profit in the houston market, houston, texas market and exxon mobil is a big employer in your market, or if you’re a bank of america and urine that their market, you can actually get their blank form. And if you know some of your employees work for exxon mobil, when you thank them, you can actually just send them the form or send them an email hyper linked directly to the exxon mobil website so they could go on, make a donation and it’s relatively easy to determine that some of these people work for exxon because they might already have volunteered their email address and their email address might be chuck it exxon dot com really pretty simple research making it so much easier for the donor hyre that’s correct. And in fact, if you look at the university’s universities that are getting this five, six, seven percent more money aren’t doing anything more than these basics, plus making sure they find out where you work. Okay, what our strategy for finding out where you work, we mention public radio probably doesn’t know that how can i help the small net size shop get that information? So probably the best way is, is that if you’re doing phone of john’s or any type of telemarketing speaking with your donors, so for example, in public broadcasting, they have pledge drives when the person calls it in pledges, you simply ask one more question, where do you work on whether your company matches and you’re off and running? If you do telemarketing you, khun called sometimes organizations calling thank their donors and you think you could ask him if they work for matching company? You can buy this data from song third party vendors. That source isn’t so great yet that that there isn’t really an easy way to give them a list of your donors and for a third party to actually tell you where they worked. But those companies are trying to get better at that. Linked in, obviously, is a celestine, so sometimes you can simply go online, and what a small and mid sized non-profit could be encouraged to do is just go online and look up your major donors. You’re bigger donorsearch sabat e-giving five hundred thousand dollars. Type them into lincoln, see if you can find out where they work it it’s, a matching company pursuit for a matching gift. So i made you die aggressive, too easy and fun. Are there other strategies? Wanna share that geever topic you’re talking about? No, you know, actually, i think the ironic thing about many of these things is that they’re actually relatively straightforward, you know, one of the things that is more complex and could actually make it easier, but easy matches is kind of doing away with it is some organizations can actually take the form, fill it out, fly you send it to you and all you have to do it, sign it and send it back in. And if you’re a national non-profit that’s hard because there’s so many matching gift forms, but it turns out in most cities in america, major cities, three of four, five companies represent eighty percent of the matching gifts in that area. So in many cases, you don’t have to work that hard for it. One other thing you could do, which is probably true of a small kruckel organization. That’s, right? That’s, right, it’s just, you know, most of the money is coming from the big employers in town. Now, one of the other things you could do which is kind of a clever thing, is that say, you know, you have a lot of people who work for a company and it doesn’t match gifts, but you may have twenty or thirty employees that worked for that company. What some people have found success in is actually just making a list of those thirty people are and going and visiting the company in their corporate relations and talking to them about what would you make a donation to us either because you’ll match your employees gifts or you’ll just make a donation, advertise it and you’ll know thirty of your employees is gonna be thrilled because they support the organization as well. And so it’s another way to engage companies and promoted and again universities have gotten very good at that practice is well and end up pursuing people. You have just about two more minutes. Okay, what else? I’m just gonna throw it out. What else would like to share around? Pretty simple teo to build scale? Yeah, that’s e-giving dahna well, the one thing thiss isn’t the technique, but just to show the opportunity when i said that there’s one point four billion dollars donated that’s about ten percent of corporate philanthropy, so corporations make many other donations to non-profits, but about ten percent of it is matching gift contributions. One point four billion that is less than, and in most cases fairly well, less than one percent off. When i said that there’s a five to seven percent opportunity and so there’s tremendous room toe actually raise total corporate philanthropy, matching of france will be by a billion. Two billion dollars. I had a question this morning about what that actually leads corporations to cut back on their match and give program, if all of a sudden what people were doing it. And i’ve talked to people both work in the company’s as well as other knowledgeable people. And they joked that it’s still such a small toe, a percentage of total corporate philanthropy that we could easily double it, and the corporations really wouldn’t block at it. So why definitely encourage non-profits to go after this money, and i think it will be there. Let’s, take that rationalization off the table. You’ll end up cutting us back if we do more often. Hm. Chuck longfield is it is chief scientist, scientist for blackbaud. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for spending time. Pleasure. Thankyou, tony. Pleasure. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage becomes twenty twelve. My thanks. Also to the people at blackbaud who supported me when i was there for their october twenty twelve conference. Thanks also to john list and eating. Debray is who works at the university and helped with all the logistics of getting professor list as a guest. And on the phone next week. Marcia stop panic is an adviser to the new york university heimans center for philanthropy. And she was the founding editor of contribute magazine. We’ll talk about the role of women in philanthropy. I’m calling it some raise money. Some raise hell. And amy sample ward, our social media scientist. Little bit of a hell raiser herself, i would say although she’s afraid of alligators. She’s coming back. Amy will be with us next week. More live listener love atlanta, georgia and columbia, missouri. Welcome live listener love to you in georgia and missouri. The five hundred stars campaign. I think i’ve mentioned it once or twice. Please go to non-profit radio dot net, click view in itunes rate the show. Go now, go right now before you forget. Thank you, and thank you for as far as we’ve gotten so far, more than doubled the number of ratings on itunes. Thank you for that. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules ivory. Much hope that you will be with me next friday at talking alternative dot com. That’ll be friday, one to two p, m eastern. Hyre dahna i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get anything. Think. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me. 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Tony’s guests this week:
Jennifer Herring, president & CEO of The Maritime Aquarium at Norwalk.
Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and
author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now.”
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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Zoho hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for friday, june fifteenth twenty twelve we’re talking about big ideas, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent of your aptly named host it’s good to be back in the studio have been away for a couple of weeks. Last week i was at fund-raising day got about ten interviews for the show, one of which we’re goingto listen to very shortly today, but great fun meeting everybody on the exhibit floor got some sponsorship enquiries good to see everybody there about fifteen hundred people at the conference and good busy booth we had on the exhibit floor this week it is motivate your board for major e-giving and revisiting your twenty twelve prospect plan from last week’s fund-raising day conference. Jennifer herring has advice on motivating, working with and supporting your board to help them step up to their fund-raising duties she’s president and ceo of the maritime aquarium at norwalk in connecticut and also revisiting your twenty twelve prospect plan. Maria simple, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder those a midyear checkin of her new year’s ideas on your twenty twelve prospect plan that was back. On our january sixth show have you hosted those cultivation events that she recommended and used them as prospect research tools? Do you have your free google lorts set up? We’ll recap a few of those ideas from january and between the guests. Antony’s take two nearly one thousand new york city charities lose their tax exemption. I’ll explain what happened to their exempt status and that’s not limited to new york. You can use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter. Andi i very much hope that you were with me last week when it was got women donors from last year’s fund-raising conference and also maria semple was on last week sharing strategies for using linked in. Right now we take a break, and when we return, i’ll have the first of my interviews from fund-raising day this year. Stay with me. They couldn’t do anything, including getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get you thinking. E-giving cubine money, time, happiness, success, where’s, your breakthrough join me, nora simpson, as i bring you real world tools for combining financial smarts with spiritual purpose. As a consultant to ceos, i’ve helped produce clear, measurable financial results while expanding integrity, passion and joy share my journey as we apply the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment to create breakthroughs for people across the world. The people of creation nation listened to norah simpson’s creation nation fridays at twelve noon eastern on talking alternative dot com oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Dahna you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back, it’s time to motivate your board for major giving. This is the first of my interviews from the fund-raising day conference hosted by association friendraising professionals new york city chapter just last friday. So this is the first of the ten that i got years. Motivate your board for major e-giving with jennifer herring, welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand twelve, we’re in the heart of new york city in times square at the marriott marquis. My guest right now is jennifer herring. Jennifer is president and ceo of the maritime aquarium at norwalk, and her topic is major gifts two point oh, straight talk for your board, jennifer. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much, tony. I’m glad to have you on dh. Thank you for taking time in a busy conference day. A pleasure. Why don’t you acquaint listeners with the work of the maritime? Aquarius. Ah, the maritime aquarium is a regional aquarium located in fairfield county, connecticut, that serves primarily connecticut in westchester. But the whole tri state region it’s focused on long island sound. In fact, it’s, the only aquarium focused on long island sound our mission is to inspire people of all ages to appreciate long island sound and protect it for future generations. We have a wonderful collection of long island sound animals and a lot of ability to touch and directly experience animals. It’s a very intimate aquarium. Okay, we also have a very large education program that reaches out primarily to underserved students around the tri state area. And how long have you been there? I’ve been there for going on eight years now as the ceo. Okay, let’s, get into your seminar topic. Major gifts two point oh, straight talk for your board. You’re encouraging gift officers to be change agents around board fund-raising way. We’ll have plenty of time for detail, but generally what’s what’s the problem that you see, i think that the challenge with boards is to keep them engaged. Getting them on the board is on ly step one all fund-raising especially major gifts. Fund-raising is about personal relationships. And just like any friendship, personal relationship needs to be cultivated and maintained on a continuous basis so you can get getting people on the board is the first challenge and talk a little bit. We want we want talk? A little about recruitment will get sacked, right? But once they’re on the board keeping them engaged, challenging them with meaningful ways to be connected with your organization, it’s an ongoing challenge and the strategy behind that is something that the development officers can and should play a significant role in. Okay, let’s, let’s talk a little about the recruitment of board members. How do we make plane? What the fund-raising expectations are at the recruitment stage? I’ve done that for many, many years, no there’s always a conversation, you know, once you’ve i met, the person cultivated the person enough so that your at a position to have a conversation about whether they want to join your board. And of course, that person has to be somebody who’s passionate about your mission and somebody who is going to bring something either some expertise or capacity or preferably or a network of contacts are preferably all three two the nexus of issues that the organization feeling you have ensured that the person you’re recruiting is bringing something, what one one to a little three of those? Absolutely because, of course, the ideal boardmember brings wealth, wisdom and work. And we want to engage all three. So you’re having the conversation and it’s almost always conversation, at least in my current job between me, sometimes with another trustee and the perspective person and i just lay the expectations out on the table. Now we have kind of a sliding scale of expectations, depending on the capacity of the person the board has voted. This is a small organization, it’s, about a ten and a half million dollar budget and how many trustees are there there at the moment? Thirty one that’s large could be that’s a lot that’s. A lot of trustees, partly because in a cultural institution, being on the board or on a committee of the board is the only way you have a connection there. No grateful patients. There are no alumni. You have to create a connection and keep it going. Okay, and the board is a very important way to do that. So getting back to the recruitment conversation, i always put a specific number on the table. Um, and it can be as little as the minimum annual gift that the board has voted. Should be the minimum, which is twenty, five hundred. Dollars uh huh. Often i will say site a larger annual gift if i know the person has more capacity plus either giving ah, e-giving or selling a table to the gala. And then we’ve been in a campaign mullet for the last five years. I usually say, you know, once you’ve gotten involved in and been a member and really gotten connected, we will be coming to talk to you about a major giff ok? And the first number that’s an annual number that’s an annual number. Okay, so you’re very clear about the expectations, do you? Do you do this in writing and let the person take it home to take it to the office and considerate or this is really all verbal well, what we give them in writing, we don’t give them the expectation and writing, okay, we give them the role of the board. You know what? What our expectations of them are in terms of their responsibilities and what they can expect of us in terms of response. Civilities, we give them a lot of background material about the organization would let them see who they’re colleagues on the board would baby give them. Aboard list, but we don’t have, you know, a pledge form that they have to sign beforehand. We figured that the verbal conversation is enough, and then we solicit them ah, at the at year end or calendar, you’re a fiscal year, and we have a june thirtieth fiscal year for what we’ve talked about. All right, now you have a new boardmember they’ve they’ve accepted based on the expectations, what is ah, board training look like for brand new board members around? Fund-raising well, we don’t have a really formal training for us it’s on the job, maybe they go on other calls, outgoing calls with others or what we mostly do. We have a pretty elaborate committee structure, one of which is this is a campaign committee, but a marketing committee of finance committee, education committee and exhibits committee, so we use those committees to get them connected with the meat and the program of the organization we use the gala committee very actively to engage people in soliciting tables for the gala. That’s in some ways, the easiest kind of fund-raising to do because it’s very transactional, then there’s a a certain small kadre of leadership volunteers. Who have made major gif ts and who are in powerful positions in the board that i work with personally to develop specific ask strategies that they participate in to go on called fund-raising calls with terrorism that’s sort of on the job it’s on me. Okay, so it’s on the job training because i’ve i’ve found i’ve worked it now for non-profits and i in none of them has there ever been, you know, you get the whole board together and you have a little fund-raising training thing. We tried to do that, actually on a retreat in two thousand eight, the week that the stock market was falling apart when we were about to launch our campaign and had a little role playing about how you ask, but that contrived, right? So everybody knew everybody knew was staged its quite trust, and i found that it’s much better to work directly with the person who’s agreed to go on a call with you, and what i do is write a script for that person, and i do it for myself too about you know what the objective is, how much we’re going to ask for what the background. Is the, you know, the background, research, the relationship with the person to the organization, and then what each of us is going to say, e-giving lending, e-giving e-giving, ding, ding, ding, ding! You’re listening to the talking alternate network, get him. Cubine money, time, happiness, success, where’s your breakthrough join me, nora simpson, as i bring you real world tools for combining financial smarts with spiritual purpose. As a consultant to ceos, i’ve helped produce clear, measurable financial results while expanding integrity, passion and joy share my journey as we apply the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment to create breakthroughs for people across the world. The people of creation nation listened to norah simpson’s creation nation fridays at twelve noon eastern on talking alternative dot com. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Oppcoll you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Treyz i’m ken berger of charity navigator. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Yeah, so you actually rehearse since you have a school to do, you practise the meeting in advance? Well, i practice myself. I mean, i sit in my office and speak the script, and i often will have a telephone call with the person who’s going with nato to go over it, and they used these scripts. They work really well to shape the the conversation and, you know, it’s sort of various whose mouth, the actual ask is going to come out of it most often comes out of my mouth even if we’re going with a peer, but it doesn’t matter, really, because the presence of the pier there makes all the difference. And why don’t you say a word about that? For people who may not recognise what what’s the value of having is someone someone alongside with you, who’s a a peer of the of the person you’re soliciting. So having somebody who’s involved who’s already made a major her gift who’s giving their time and and treasure to the organization validates the organization for the person that you’re asking the money for and sets a bar down four for what they’re doing, especially if it’s a trustee because the trustees are supposed to be the ones who care the most were the most invested and therefore need to be the biggest investors in the organization. That somebody on the outside of the organization is always looking. Two how much trustees were doing and how much in particular that trustee who’s asking has done to help scale their level of gift thinking. So so here’s an example. Actually, this isn’t a trustee is somebody whose son is a trustee. And who i’ve tried to get a trust to be a trustee for years has taken on the project of raising money for a new research vessel, which is a two and a half million dollar project. He’s in the shipping industry. He’s. Very passionate about it. He cochairs the committee he brought in the person who’s. Um, project managing the project. Who’s built many boats. He helped move us to the decision away from retrofitting an old boat to building a new boat from scratch. He agreed to raise the money. He gave a half million dollars lead gift. And i took him to see ah, prospect that’s been in our family at about the ten. Thousand dollar level for a number of years. Who we honored it, our gala, who we’ve cultivated pretty thoroughly and whose connection to the aquarium was around our existing research vessel. So we went and sat with him right before christmas in their kitchen. Sam uh, the gentleman who’s leading this project talked about it very passionately talked about what he’s done, and that is instance, the actual ask came out of my mouth. We left them with materials. But then the leader that the head of this effort played golf with the prospect in florida continue to cultivate him on his own separately from anything that the institution was doing. And this gentleman stepped up with a half million dollar gift, matching the lead gift for matching the lead gift. So it was a long cultivation effort, probably going on for five years before we got to the critical moment where we found the right project that connected to this person’s passion. And i’m sure that the fact that he was being solicited by somebody else who had made a gift at that level was one of the things that determined no, his i mean, this is somebody with a lot of capacity. Who’s named things all over town. This also speaks to the value of the long term relationships that you mentioned now that may not have been a long term relationship, but it was the beginning of it was the beginning of a relationship between those between those two between those two. Absolutely and and there is the long term relationship with the institution. Find this gentleman the person who made the five hundred thousand dollar gift had been involved with the institution for at least five years. But between these two people, right, a developing relationship, correct? See each other’s piers on dh makes it tougher for the person solicited to refuse. The other thing usually is that when you’re going to have a solicitation call, the person that you’re soliciting knows why you’re coming to see that it’s not a surprise way don’t want toby blindsiding people you want them to know, right? I mean, you basically set up the meeting in a way that says, i want to come and talk to about this project for this campaign or so that they know what it is and if they don’t want to be solicited. They won’t take the meeting mostly right? Let’s talk about the role of the professional fundraiser in supporting lord fund-raising what do you see as the the role? Well acquaint people with the structure at the aquarium? Do you have? Ah, vice president, director development? Yes, there are some gift officers or we have it, but we have a very small development, as we have in highly experienced director development who’s been doing university development, heading university development departments for thirty years. We have a person who does foundations and ah latto the patron program and various other many aspects of fund-raising is sort of the director of the annual fund, but he’s also doing major gift so it’s not very good at everything that it is typical of a small shop. We have a person who does the gallas and corporate fund-raising we have a person who does membership and the acknowledgment of gif ts and some fulfillment of patron level gift, which is a thousand dollars for us, we don’t have very many patrons and and that person has an assistant so it’s basically five, five people in there, other things that are being done out of this. Opponent who eyes the liaison to the board for fund-raising assume it’s, the it’s, the director of development and to some degree that the person who manages the gala because the board is so involved in the gala so and and also the personal i would say that there are three of our gift officers that that have relationships, not with every boardmember but with some board members, and then since you’re giving your your topic is major gift, right, what’s, the what’s, the support that the director development probably is the one providing to the to the board around around major, gifted director, director of development it’s mostly providing support to me around major gift activities and that’s possibly because i have such a strong fund-raising background was the ceo. I mean, that’s what i’ve been my career has been for thirty years, so we talk about strategy. He identifies prospects, does the research. He does a lot of personal cultivation with these people, too. So he makes friends with them. He talks about his travels there, travels. He fixed us up with theater tickets. He does things that just brings them closer to the organization. He’s very active. In working with the board on small, intimate cultivation dinners, that’s something you ask board members to do? We asked members events and not in the way host them right in front of our biggest exhibit, which is a shark tank. So you’re you’re having dinner with the sharks swimming around in this elegant table. There’s, you know, a maximum of twenty of you there’s, some interesting intellectual guest, either professor from yale or the principle of our partner school that’s closing the achievement gap or somebody like that, you’re there with a bunch of peers that the board members bring to the table and that’s part of the cultivation effort that’s proven very successful and really important in moving people into major gift relationships with us. What do we do with or four board members who have a reluctance to do fund-raising now, even at the so even going back to the er, teo bringing them on, bring them on the board, the recruitment if they express our reluctance, they have skills that you need and they’re willing to do their own giving maybe a maybe a much higher level than the twenty five dollar minimum, but they have a reluctance to do to be asking people for money, what can they be doing around fund-raising we just don’t bother with them because we don’t have time, frankly, so you wouldn’t accept that kind of a boardmember no, no, we just leave them alone to what they’re doing, okay? And don’t try to make them do something they can’t d’oh. But even if they can’t ask there not comfortable asking, they could, for instance, host the hosting events so that’s were constantly, uh, trying to get people to bring their friends to our events to our friends of his are exhibit openings introduced people to us, and every year when we have aboard retreat, they all the people there pledged that they will do that and every year on ly a few of them do it word definitely working very hard to get boardmember sze to agree to host or co host thies, small dinners are shark tank dinners and bring with its great they’re called struck thank dinner. Yes. Oh, isn’t that great? I just read something online that if there was one drop of blood in one million drops of blood or something like that, sort of sense that consensus was that on npr’s website or something it could be but that’s something that that one of our education programs that demonstrates two kids very interesting how they do it with a little drop of tomato juice, being deluded and deluded and deluded, and and they figure out when they can taste it and okay, yeah, so your shark tank dinners so we’re constantly trying to get boardmember is to bring their peers to shark tank dinners, which is very difficult to do, and only a few of them are really able tto leverage those kinds of relationships. It’s, you know, we have in some ways a naive for this is not new york city, and this is not new york city fund-raising with the kind of power boards that i’ve worked with at the new york public library and the wildlife conservation society it’s a very different kind of bored, maybe many of these people are being our board members for the first time, some of them are, you know, business people may be in the upper middle management of the bank, and there they don’t have that kind of reach into rich people community that um, that is common in new york. On the other hand, fairfield county has a huge amount of hedge fund wealth and a huge amount of maritime wealth, although in this economy, that’s less than it, wass. And we’re getting more and more of those kinds of people on our board who do have a network and are able to to bring us at least to get this us in a room with them. Okay, then the challenge becomes how two convince the sector. That is more and more about venture philanthropy that has measurable impact. That there’s something for them at the maritime aquarium? Yeah, on dh. Well, we want to stick to the board fund-raising topic, but i know that impact and outcome assessment is very here for lots of charities. And yes, it is a struggle for cultural institutions to do that. Although it sounds like maybe around your education in this job we do. We are able to do that around our education on shifts and initiatives in some very interesting ways about closing the achievement gap, and one of our trustees made a very strategic a gift to us that allowed us to do a case study about a partner school that we’re working with and what impact our partnership has had in their achievement there. Rising achievement of school that’s almost all inner city kids. Jennifer way have just about a minute left. And i want to talk a little about the case for support on dh analyzing that case for support again in just a minute. So what’s your advice around scrutinising that you need a strong case for support. You need your board to be able to deliver it in an elevator speech s so that they can be great ambassadors for you. The case for support is what’s going to make people give? They have to understand that you have to teach them through your case for support that you are an institution that can help them change the world, that they can change the world through your institution, and get the joy and satisfaction of doing that through their philanthropy. The the elevator speech for board members, do you help them write it? First? Talk about what we have definitely done that, and we’ve done it in various ways. The elevator speech should have a certain set of statistics, and i’ve actually gone so far as to take a business card and write him out that they can keep in their pocket this citizen. But the elevator speech also has to connect to the passions of the boardmember so that they can talk about the institution in a way that that communicates the passion that they bring to it. So every boardmember doesn’t have the same elevators, no every boardmember doesn’t and shouldn’t have the same elevator speech. Excellent advice. Ok, it goes to what? What? What moves them the most. What moves down, right? We have to leave it there, but thank you so much, tony. My pleasure. Jennifer herring is president and ceo of the maritime aquarium at norwalk in norwalk, connecticut. Pleasure. Thank you very much for joining me, jennifer. My pleasure. Thank you, toni. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand twelve marriott marquis, hosted by association of fund-raising professionals, new york city chapter. My thanks again to the folks at fund-raising day and jennifer herring. Right now, we take a break, and when we returned, tony’s take two, and then it’ll be maria semple revisiting your two thousand twelve prospect plan. So hang around. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it’s. Time for tony’s, take two on tony martignetti non-profit radio my block this week is nearly one thousand new york city charities lose tax exemption the new york city department of finance ah revoked the property tax exemption from nine hundred twenty five city based charities because they failed to demonstrate a legitimate charitable purpose. They lost their property exemption for what? For property that they owned. And, as i say in the blogged, something similar to that was reported in the new york times last year and and the block post has a link to that coverage, i think the lessons for charities are you need to stay true to the charitable mission that got you. The irs is designation of tax exempt however, many years ago that was and in the case of one of the charity’s sighted, but you’ll see in the blogged from new york city, that was nineteen, thirty four and but now, obviously, new york city is challenging that. So you need to stay true to that charitable mission that got you that original tax exempt designation and i think, also need to stay in compliance with state and local regulations. And laws because i could see compliance being linked to keeping your tax advantage at the state and local level. And that’s all we’re talking about. We’re not talking about federal tax exemption. These were ah, this is all state and local tax advantages also want to remind you well, that’s on the block and my blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com and that’s, this week’s post. I also want you to remember that we have a linked in group and on the linked in group. You can tell me what you ah, i have as ideas for future shows. Or give me feedback on previous guests. When if you’d like to say, please check us out on linkedin. And that is tony’s. Take two for friday, june fifteenth the twenty fourth show of the year. The year is almost half over. How is that possible, maria? Simple. I know your air right in here. Hello, maria. Simple. How are you? I’m doing well. Maria is the prospect finder she’s, an experienced trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com. Her book is panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now and most importantly, she’s, our regular prospect research contributor, and this month we’re revisiting the twenty twelve prospect plan maria from the january sixth show. You had some ideas back then, i did absolutely so i came up with kind of a list of things that people could do, and i thought i’d be a good idea to revisit it now that we are hard to believe midpoint in the year of twenty twelve already, i know, um, so not to revisit the entire show, but some of the tips that we had, we brought to the table at that point we were talking about, you know, prospecting from within your database in-kind of mining that database and tips for how you can keep up with some of your top prospects. But we also talked about proactively identifying people outside the database and bringing them into your organization to learn more about your missions and by hosting by hosting some cultivation events, right? Right. So we did, you know, talk about cultivation events. My suggestion had been to in the first three months of the year, really trying to identify people from within the database and proactively identified people outside your database that you might invite some cultivation events and then try and hold those events in second quarter. So let let’s assume that people may have taken our advice hosted one or two cultivation events, but if not, we have some lessons or we have some ideas to get started. The year’s not over and it’s only half. So you can still, you know, implement all of these and just think about shifting the tips into the second half of the year. That’s even we have even more than half. This is only the twenty fourth. So twenty four, twenty four, fifty seconds have passed. So what is that? Twelve. Twenty six and then it goes down even further. Teo six, six, eighth goes from all right. Well, you have more than half the year left. Yeah, just a little over half the year. So all is not lost. But anyway, let’s, let’s talk about some of those. Those tips that we talked about, we mentioned identifying maybe the within your database. Who were those top ten to twenty gifts that you’d received in the past year. And also your top ten prospects in terms of lifetime giving to your organization and, you know, inviting those people to attend a cultivation event. Now, you know, sometimes people refer to these parlor event. You know, whatever terminology want to use, the event can be held at your facility. If you have a facility you want to showcase or outside in somebody’s home. So in particular, if you have somebody you’re affiliated with with your board or another volunteer who’s willing to open up their home, particularly if they have a lovely home. And really, the setting would work very nicely for us. A small, intimate gathering. The key to remember here, there’s no. Ask at that. You know, that could also be on site. You might have. You might have a very interesting place for people to gather on site i in the interview that everybody heard earlier in the show. Jennifer herring is president of the maritime aquarium at norwalk in connecticut. And they like to host things in front of the shark tank. Right? So it could be a small gathering. If you have a small shark or maybe have a gecko or, you know a hamster, you could host a small group in front of a little aquarium. With, you know, eight or twelve people watching the hamster go around in a wheel, i mean, that could be compelling. Yeah, certainly if you have a facility that lend itself well to that type of gathering that’s great. I attended something recently at the liberty science center here in jersey city in new jersey, and it was a fabulous event, and so, you know, just get creative and think about what would draw people in. Is it the space? Is that this person’s home on dh? The key is to really be able teo stick to the time frame that you tell people it will be, particularly if you’re going to do it around some sort of a breakfast event, people need to get on with their day, be a little bit more lax if it’s an end of the day event, but from a prospecting or prospect research point of view you want to think about while you’re attending that event, listening for, you know, some of the general interests now, you know, i’m assuming that a lot of the people that are listening to this show may be from a smaller to midsize non-profit so the person taking on the role of prospect researcher is either the executive director is the development director, maybe a communications director. Whoever that person is that also does some prospect research at the organization should be in attendance at this event with the so purpose, really, to do a little bit of intelligence gathering. Yeah, you want to be you want to be making sure that people are that staff, if you do have multiple staff, you don’t want them huddled together over in the sort of the room, even if it’s just two or three of you, you know, huddled in a corner, chatting or all seated at the same table if there are multiple tables, that’s, a that’s, a big mistake, you’re not you’re not going to be out talking to people as much as you could be, right? So this is an opportunity for you to showcase your non-profit but also to elicit a lot of wonderful information that, quite frankly, a lot of instances you may just not be able to find this information online. So so what type of information might that be that you’d want to elicit as wearing your prospect? Just general interest just engaged the person in conversation on and be a good listener that is just so very keys just to really put your listening ears on. And we’ve talked about we have talked about that in the past. Thie radical listening, which came from a previous guest. Melanie schnoll begun. And then you picked up on radical listening and recommended it as prospect research vehicle. Right? Total cultivation event is a great place for you to become a radical listener. So gent general interests that they have any family information that you khun gather sometimes there might be information about children, ages of children just to get kind of get an idea of where they are, what point in their lives that they’re at. Um, are they you know, more of a plan giving prospect for you? Are they really just starting out in their lives, their careers, and have very young children? Just you want to be genuinely interested in in their lives? S and and what? What it is about your work that appeals to them, right? And one way to find out about that is, well, obviously to directly ask them. But it’s also interesting to try and gather where else? They’re volunteering their time. You know what other charities air they particularly interested in so that you can try and figure out? Well, gee, just, you know, the programming and then services that we offer does it a line at all with what this family has in terms of their general charitable interest. So in the case of the maritime museum, they might be thinking about, you know, china, find out what you nowhere else these people are are spending their time. Are they interested in other maybe water conservation efforts, other charities that really address water quality in the long island sound? You know, things of that nature, and so for sure, you’ll know that you’re on the right track and engaging this person in additional conversation. So, you know, that might be a great way to find out where they and their spouse volunteered their time also vacationing. You know, this is a great opportunity for you to say so, you know, do you have any exciting vacation plans for this summer? Uh, so, you know, be listening for responses like, yeah, we’ll be spending, you know, the entire month of august in our home. In the hamptons, you know, they say that nature good to know just just generally find out what type if they say no, we’re doing this stay cation thing this year, you know, pick up on that cue, um, and then really, really important the circles back to something we talked about in the january show is to be able to really create some sort of contact reports on capturing critical information that you’ve been able to glean from the, uh, from the cultivation events. Right now, we have a great dahna database right now, back in january, we talked about we encouraged i think it was the eleven percent that didn’t have a computer database to look at the clouds packages that available, and you went into detail and on that in the january six show, so hopefully some of those people have converted teo computer databases, right? And if they’re still in there, sort of in the shopping phase, i’ll just remind them real quickly that the two websites that that might be something for them to check out that might give them some additional info on what’s available out there. Idealware dot or ge talked had a kn article about how to select a database and tech soup dot or ge is a good place to find some low cost and free tech advice. So, you know, check those out if you’re still in shopping mode. Andi, i you know, i truly believe that cloud based is the way to go it’s just going to give your staff and your board the most flexibility on dh then your point about saving that valuable information that you that you learn at a cultivation event in that computer database or if you’re not computerized yet, i guess you know, you you print up a contact report and put it in a person’s folder, right? Exactly and, you know, it’s really important, like, just just like you don’t want that staff to be all congregating together in the corner, it’s going to be very important after the event post event very quickly thereafter within a day or two to have a debriefing if it’s not a meeting, get a conference call going, you know, there’s free conference services out there there’s no reason why you can’t just say, you know, knowing in advance the date of the event, let’s say it’s a thursday evening by by friday midday, you could be having a conference call in have that scheduled way in advance that you’re going to have a debriefing call, you know what were the important point? Somebody found out from speaking with some of the people, and you may want to actually pre-tax fine people, right? So if we know in advance that mr big bucks is going to be there, why not do a little pre advanced research on him and find out a little bit of information? And so that a boardmember can be assigned to perhaps be the person to you know, just have a discussion and you can even try and figure out who the best four person would be, that you’d want to make sure cultivating that individual during the way we’re going to take a break. I want to emphasize before we do one thing that you said, which is in terms of inviting people, look a tte donors who have give been giving for the lifetime large donors over their lifetime, so individual gifts may not be so large, but they’re giving history over the life over their lifetime with your organization. Is quite large. Those air also good people to invite. We’re going take a break, and maria simple will still be with me after that break. And i hope you will, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic readings. 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Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. This is tony martignetti, aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance. Social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Talking. Hi there and welcome back we’re revisiting your twenty twelve prospect plan with maria simple maria just teo wrap up that topic on cultivation events. Was there anything more you wanted to say about that before we get to one of the other topics from from january? I would say in terms of pre imposed cultivation event, there are a couple of websites that you might want a bookmark to be able to do some of that general research on an individual that might be attending or might have attended anay event. I outlined some of these in the going beyond google article that i have on my website, and maybe what i ll do, tony is at after the show go ahead into your lincoln page as well as your lincoln group as well as your facebook group on dh post there about what where they confine that exactly, but it’s a suspect finder, dot com and it’s on the resource is paige, so some of those things that you can do is obviously run the person’s name through google. Now the big tip with google is that you want to put quotation marks around a person’s name, so that you’re finding their name as a phrase in google if is so, certainly you could do that. You can set up a google alerts again on the top ten donors we had recommended back in january that you look at the top donors that you have in your database and set up an alert on their name that’s free google will push the information to you so you could find out if something new is happening, especially in somebody’s business career. Now, last time we talked about alerts, i think you had set one on me or we talk about something and you used me as an example. I was lousy results was a wealth indicator. Was that that wealth indicator? What? What, you know, what’s interesting about setting up. Stop using me as an example, right? Google and google alerts is if you google plus now is actually influencing, and we talked about that on one of your shows it’s influencing your search results. So if you are on google plus and you are logged into google, the results are actually going to be skewed more toward social results. So if you’re doing this purely as a prospect researcher. You may want to actually log out of google. Um, your google plus account before commencing your prospect research. Just a tip. I think you might get a little bit more of objective results, if you will. It’s not gonna be so much skewed toward just social sector social media here. And you had you had examples on of other alerts that that people could set beyond the free google lorts, which are which are outstanding. I use them a lot for for my work, right? But you had some examples of others specific newspaper alerts. A lot of the newspapers out there permit used to set up alerts on specific phrases. If you and also the news sources in your state here i track in new jersey, i track and jay is, uh, they send me daily alert just generally what’s going on in the business community. I get those alerts twice a day here in new jersey. So that’s, something you want to consider looking into. What is that publication that covers your state? It might present from interesting opportunities for you because they tend to not only highlight, you know, negative news that’s going on, but also some real positive news and then one of the fee based services that some of your listeners maybe currently scribed, too, for doing foundation research is called foundation search dot com and as paid subscriber, one of the things that you have access to is a new foundation alert service. So if you are subscribed to that service, definitely set up the alert for yourself. They’ll let you know anytime a new foundation is formed on registered with the irs in your state or whatever states you decide to set up, as you know, the alert service and you will be pushed the information through email, then you can check it out a little bit further waken set these alerts up not only for individuals but companies and foundations. That’s, right? Yeah, you can definitely do that as well. Cos and foundations, you want to set up those alert so, you know, whatever it is that you’re looking to track for certain, you want to set up the alert there? Um, lincoln is a great place to research. Somebody pretty opposed an event. Also, they have free alerts that you can set up within lincoln. So let’s say you’re always, you know, prospecting for somebody who holds specific in a certain industry. Let’s say the accounting industry or something like that. Ah, and you want to always be notified anytime somebody new joins lincoln who’s in the accounting field and also happens to be within a certain radius of your zip code, you can set those types of alerts up up to three of them, actually under a free lengthen account to take advantage of that. And have lincoln pushed the information to you, maria, is that using the advanced search? Yeah, yeah. You can do with the advanced search page just to do the search initially and then? Ah, once you set those, you see the search results, you can actually save that search and you’re allowed to save up to three searches. Particularly useful. Okay. Okay, so the cultivation events, the alerts i’ve calculated now the year is six thirteen ths of the way through. So you have you have seven thirteenth remaining to take advantage of these ideas that maria originally recommended back in january. But don’t feel bad, maria. We have just about thirty seconds left. What do you want to leave people with in? This mid year checking this revisiting of the prospect plan i think it’s really just the idea of getting proactive on dh getting their delve into your database proactively trying mine it proactively look for people who are outside of the database that you need to bring in and learn about your organization and really help them stored them along said that they will feed knew names into your organization and be willing to host their own cultivation event. Maria simple you’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com our regular contributor, maria pleasure talking to you, thank you very much. We’ll catch you next month and my thanks again, of course, to jennifer herring and the folks at a f p for ah, letting me be on the exhibit floor last week at fund-raising day in new york city next week, what happened in two thousand eleven? Well recap the years fund-raising with bob evans of giving yusa and returning rob mitchell, the ceo of atlas, of giving we’ll compare and contrast they’re two methods and what their findings are for last year’s fund-raising also scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news, returns with going mobile he and i will talk about mobile aps and your mobile website a few weeks ago on tony’s take two i talked about my core beliefs that charity’s need to do better and that they deserve the help that they need. Lynette singleton, from singleton consulting group, is a good friend to the show and she’s, a frequent re tweeter of the show on twitter and she’s offering to help the charity’s need she’s hosting a ninety minute webinar on marketing on thursday, june twenty first, you’ll learn what marketing really is and how it can help your non-profit had a position you’re non-profit conduct a marketing and communications audit and develop a marketing plan to achieve your goals. I have talked to lynette and she’s, a smart lady, and you’ll learn a lot from this webinar non-profit radio listeners get twenty five dollars off registration used discount code non-profit radio that’s two words it’s on thursday, june twenty first at two thirty eastern and you register at s c g the number four non-profits dot net cg four non-profits dot net to register for lynette singleton’s marketing webinar you can keep up with us on the facebook page like us. On that page, you know where to find us live. An archive non-profit radio dot net is for the archive. That’s. Our apple page are apple, itunes, paige. The show’s hashtag is non-profit radio on twitter. Use it often. Our creative producer is clear, meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer, shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you’ll be with me next friday went to two p m eastern at talking alternative dot com. You couldn’t do anything to get good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, get anything. Thank you, cubine how’s your game. Want to improve your performance, focus and motivation than you need. 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You’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one want to make your current relationship as filling as possible, then tuning on thursdays at one pm for love in the afternoon with morning alice as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all with distinguished authors, industry coolers and experts on everything from wine to fashion. Join us as we discuss dating, relationships and more on talking alternative dot com. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s time. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. 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Tony’s guests this week:
Jeff Sobel, principal of Jeffrey Sobel Consulting
Charlie Gordy, director of planned giving for Harvard Law School & Margaret Holman, principal of Holman Consulting
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com
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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for friday, december ninth, two thousand eleven we’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me last week for so me. For pg social media for planned giving kristen schultz, senior vice president for crescendo, shared her research on the best use of social media properties to support your plan, giving program videos, testimonials, blogging, technical information and more. And emily chan, half of our regular legal team from the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco, talked about political campaign activity and election earing what can your non-profit do? And how does the irs decide if you’ve crossed the line? What can your employees say under the first amendment this week? We’re fund-raising throughout your life cycle. What does fund-raising look like in these stages of a non-profits life brainchild, startup, adolescence, maturity, stagnation and declined? How do you avoid the last two jeff sobel principle of jeffrey sobel consulting shares his insights. This was recorded at westchester, a f p s national philanthropy day and then marrying major and planned gif ts are these two? Compatible. What does their courtship and marriage look like? Charlie gordy, director of planned giving for harvard law school, and margaret hohman principle of home and consulting, reveal how to make this a match made in heaven. This interview i pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning at tony’s take to roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. My block this week is the next-gen charity interviews from craig newmark, the founder of craigslist and craigconnects to neil strauss, who went undercover in a secret society of pickup artists. There are takeaways for your non-profit from all these interviews, and i’ll talk about a few of them on tony’s. Take to live, tweeting the show this week. Use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter. Right now, we take a break, and then right after the break, we’ll start the pre recorded interview fund-raising throughout your life cycle. So stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Durney are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Oppcoll hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of national philanthropy day with the edith may conference centre in briar cliff manner, new york, hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter. Joining me now is jeff sobel. He is founder of jeffrey sobel consulting and his unconference topic is non-profit life cycles and culture development strategies for each stage. Jeff sobel, welcome. Thank you. Happy to be here. It’s. A pleasure. What is? What are the development life cycles? Oh, sure. Well, there’s non-profit life’s like, well, just like sort of for-profit business non-profits also have ah, very natural life cycle to them. I have to say, over the last couple of years, those have sped up because of technology. So we’re seeing a compression exactly time compression. So really, the first life cycle is the start of phase or the not to start it, but the brainchild phase or the creation on dh for many people, it’s something that never comes out because it’s something they think about, they think there’s a great issue that they can tackle, but they never verbalize it, and he never sort of formalize it. But for the few people who do yeah, and there’s more, more people who were doing it, they put that out there on because of technology and the ability to get people together and formalized people. And also the back office stuff can be done much quicker. So that’s why? Quicker and cheaper? Exactly. The expenses is almost never minimal. The amount of stuff did you khun doing? Cloud and social media? You’re going, you’re going your office running in a week. Exactly. It’s it’s, it’s amazing. So what happened? You know, you don’t even need an office. You’re doing it out of your bedroom. Exactly. Okay? And the other the beauty of it is is that you can learn quickly whether it’s going to take a hold or you can say okay, we can move on from that idea. Okay, the brainchild let’s move on and then we’ll come back. So after you get through the idea and you verbalize it, everybody you get to the start up phase where you say, okay, now i’ve got a sort of developed by-laws i’ve actually got a file for a five twenty three i’ve got to get the board members together usually boardmember zehr close friends at this time people, you know what friends and family have been recruited exactly? You bring everybody on and in the close network what’s inside your tent on, and then you start figuring out, okay, programmatically how well, you know, the idea that the social impact that we want to bring or the particular idea that we’re developing what’s the program we’ll look like. So this also can happen a lot faster. Now you have to sort of do your research to figure out. Are there other groups doing what you’re doing in that space? We’ll talk about that, you know, we’re talking about some of the trend analysis and doing your own research, but let’s, move on to the next phase short fired-up once you once you get past the startup, you’ve gotto sort of get into what we call the adolescents and growth rays, so you basically become a teenager, you sort of. Now you’ve got beyond just your friends and family on the board, you’re not usually your first funder and multiple funders at this time. Most organizations, fifty percent or seventy percent is coming from either one or two major funders, which again, family and friends exactly where a big foundation who loves the idea wants to be in that space wants to develop a model. Usually these things are still in the model face, so i’m going to develop something they say is going to work here. Westchester, if it takes off, will branch out to new york and new jersey embarrasses identity after after adolescence and growth. So then you become what we call a maturity middle age. You’re already sure there’s a thoughtless growth phase is something that then you become a mature agency. You’ve got your legs. All right, you’re actually operating. You usually got an office of used nowadays? Not necessarily, but you have a space that people can sort of connect to. People know about to program fund-raising looks very different fund-raising you start have staff, you organize more like structurally, actually. But you actually have an organizational chart that you can live by and actually is reality. The founders usually probably still involved in the early part of this, but usually that person’s phasing out or somehow still connected, but bringing on more of ah non-profit professional to be the executive director someone who’s had a career in non-profit um and then you grow in your boards are you know you have professionals on your board. Okay? People have different skillsets let’s. Go so let’s, go back to the early the brainchild way. Have ah, this business. You mind if i just mentioned one real quick thing? No, i don’t mind. Okay, go ahead. Uh, the next phase and what isn’t face-to-face? Oh, i thought it was true. And act like you actually four faces. One phase we never like to talk about. But then the last phase is what we call stagnation. Sure, agencies fall backwards and they go into what we call stagnation phase for whatever reasons could be a funding reason. It could be because their programs are not needed anymore, and they have to sort of reinvent themselves. Probably the most famous example of this is the march of dimes. They were started and they solved the issue of but the disease that they were trying to work on. And then they reinvented themselves specifically around early childhood and birth defects in various things like that. So, you know, agencies at that point, the last piece is, unfortunately, agencies can decline and shut down if they go. Down to the piece, this is when we don’t like to talk about it when we don’t like to talk to happen, but it does happen and there’s a way to do it appropriately. Okay, so let’s, just see what we have time for now, because i i do get a lot of enquiries about from people who are i have an idea, they’re passionate, they want to do something burning that isn’t a ce far as they know isn’t being done or isn’t being done well there, so we’re back in the brainchild phase. What’s your advice there around development strategies. Well, i think there’s a couple different things. One to do your homework and research to see who else is in that space. If there’s nobody else in that space, obviously, then i think you can move forward. If not, you want to go talk to those other organizations. You might be able to collaborate and they save yourself enormous. Exactly their enormous administrative and fund-raising i know everybody. There’s, there’s, sort of an eagle at play and everybody wants that sort of be the founder and head of a new five o once i can do it. Better exactly, and if you don’t have the personal wealth to fundchat in a very difficult thing to do and the first i find the first thing that can sort of temper that enthusiasm is the irs thie application exactly non-profit exempt status after you’ve been through the right, the state inc exactly, the irs will help you put the brakes on right with their twelve to eighteen month process. Probably the best thing that you could do early on is have a strategy session, bring in experts on people that you know, that you trust that will be as honest as they can with you. People are our objective outsiders as well, sort of a focus group ten to twelve people bring the idea to them, get their feedback. What did they see? Do they talk about other organizations who are doing the same thing? Are they you know, they see this as something that’s funda ble people will like isn’t needed, you know, obviously, just because you think it’s needed doesn’t always messes and everybody else is going to see thie importance behind it. So doing an early focus group, you know, not keeping the ideas if you’re proud of the idea, or you think the idea really has can resonate, then vocalize it as soon as possible, share what as many people as possible, see what i guess they hastily used the phrase, but see what sticks to the wall and get that out as soon as possible, because then you’ll learn you’ll. If it’s going to take off those early conversations in those early strategy sessions, those of the people are going to help you formalize it. Not everybody, but some are going to hell. Wow, i love what he’s doing or she’s doing. I’m going to lend my support. We couldn’t do anything to get independent thing. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get you thinking. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. No. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that calm mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free second reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. In this brainchild phase, we do need to put ego aside exactly it’s it’s a hard thing to dio it’s only human nature, but i think the way, the way i always preface things that people says, i personally think this would be a great idea. I’ve thought about it. This is my thinking’s, but i need everybody else to tell me what what is reality and have you if you’re good about listening to reality from others, it’ll save you an enormous amount of time because everything else that we’re going to talk about you could avoid if you don’t start a nonprofit but end up collaborating with with one that already exists that doing something related or close, right, i given example just real quickly, we just got contact we could contacted about this all the time, and i would say ninety percent of the time we get contacted, that person should be talking to another non-profit and they could bring that energy to that non-profit already created, and it could be a program developed within that and often running in. Lots of people are being helped and of that night, so go ahead, just everyone, some other is something new on dh? It has merit to wanting to develop a new organization. We’re working someone contest the other day who is a volunteer firefighter who happened to be very successful in business on wanting to develop something very specific for firefighters prevent heart attacks. It’s a highest rate of lye fire fighters die. Okay, so there’s a whole new program. He’s developing he’s. You know, within his first six months of the developing the idea he’s doing that, you know, we’re trying to counsel him through the right steps to see if this will resonate. Will it work and various things like that? So more times than not, though i would get back to your initial point is, if you put your eagle to the side and really get down to the facts, you could really decide whether it’s something you should be working with someone else or setting up that new non-profit in your experience, that ninety percent that ought to be talking to another non-profit how many of them actually do go talk to another non-profit about collaborating? I would say about half of those. Alright, okay, but it’s not that bad. And i would say unfortunately, most of them continue forward no matter what, i try to talk him off, go do what they’re supposed to do, and then they stop doing what they’re supposed to do, and you go off on their own anyway. Well, i think there’s something convinced them, you know, if someone lets give example, if it’s an entertainer or let’s say, it’s, somebody who’s been very successful as a hedge fund manager on investment world or some other business, right? They always feel like, hey, what we did in the business world, we could bring that expertise in the nonprofit world, and that was something that i could definitely say it was somewhat true, let’s say fifteen, twenty years ago, but the way non-profits operate now, you know, it’s very hard for someone who says, hey, just because i ran a successful coat company or some others hyre business doesn’t mean i can run a successful non-profit and have, you know, huge impact and changed on my own there’s just so much around compliance and regulation, you’re you’re starting a corporation. This is a non profit corporation, but it isn’t. It is incorporated, it has to adhere to a lot of those corporate rules as well as go find money. Well, the money parts really hard, you know, there’s so many non-profits in the space of trying to raise money. So you’re just, you know, you think your idea will cut through all that cloud and all that clutter of everybody else, but it won’t there’s ego and impossible. All right, let’s, move on. If we haven’t persuaded people that the brainchild faces really where they should stop and maybe ah, latto ally themselves with another non-profit if we haven’t persuaded them of that let’s, move on to the start up phase when your and your i know the focus of your talk is really around fund-raising in development strategy. So at this start up phase, what does fund-raising look like? Well, it’s a combination of things once again, it’s still going to be very close and that we’re friends, you’re going to develop a board, you’re gonna have to base it on by-laws and legal regulations and things like that. So those people are going to be you’re going to have to convince them in an early age, to want to be fund-raising on your behalf, you could be an early age of the organization really don’t don’t go recruiting five year old no that’s not fair, because they’ll come on five year olds will come, my love, you’re not gonna be like i know my eight year old, but they’re not going to reach adolescence by the time you do your organization does, they’re going to be exactly they’re gonna hold you back don’t don’t recruit the five year old no, i think the other pieces that you’re going to depending on the program and depending on the idea, what you’re also going to need to do is you have to harness technology. So between the social media, the youtube twitter than facebook’s of the world, you have to bring in an enormous amount of people who are going to learn about what you’re trying to do, connect to it early on, not that everybody’s going to move forward with it, but whatever whoever connect. So i guess you need to use the term, but you’re able to take it viral, then have some mechanism in the back to say ok, up to people who learn about it, who are the people that i need to go? Talk to the top fifty who are the top twenty five? You can’t be worried about that. One thousand people know about his thousand when early face of a startup, you have to find major donors early on, you have to find people who were going to buy into the concept take a chance they’re basically becoming investors in your idea of a philanthropic investor, and they’re going to take that that’s what’s going to be successful later on, you can build all the other traditional fund-raising ideas, but in the early start up phase, if you don’t do early on and get to capacity. Like i said, it goes back to also some people get started because they can fund it themselves. You know, michael bloomberg decides he wants to do something he can, he can throw his own a couple million teo. But aside, people can’t aside from from from being able to self fund, then this is really a marketplace test of your ideas and your marketing too, right? Right. And and that’s that’s going, you’ll never get to the mature phase of an organization if you can’t get major donors. All right, well, we’re gonna get people to adolescence before, before we get to mature. But how do they do something that you just mentioned? Identify the top twenty five or fifty out of the thousand people that are now, like, you know, like the facebook page and and r and r on the email list, how do you find those? The the top, right? Well, they basically had to use the tools that are provided for you from from a technology standpoint. So there’s a lot of research information out there that you confined on particular subject, whatever subject matter you are doing, even though if your programs unique there’s still people out there who have funded something in that arena. And so you have to find those people and find a way to connect and had those conversations with those foundations, corporations and major fund and potential individual donors. So most that information’s public knowledge now and you can create your own without spending a lot of money for fancy researcher you confined, you can create your own top twenty five prospectors. You can also listen to tony martignetti non-profit radio because we do have a regular prospect, research contributor maria semple, who comes on once a month, maria’s fancy socks you know what i do in the prospect finder? She comes on once a month. I’m with jeff sobel he’s, a founder of jeffrey sobel consulting, and we’re talking about the life cycles of a non-profit and different development strategies within each cycle, let’s go from start upto adolescence and growth. What does fund-raising look like now? Well, if this phase what you’re going to have a big change in your board, this is where you move away from your traditional friends and family board you’re actually recruiting people who have given to you connected to the agency professionals from other arenas, people you probably never met until you teo developed a non-profit so those trustees and you had to bring them on with the right expectations, too many matured agencies have they don’t have e-giving get policy, they don’t have a fund-raising component for their boards, and they try to integrate it afterwards. That’s the biggest mistake you can make what you have to do is in that early phase, when you move from start upto adolescents, you’ve gotta integrate the expectations of fund-raising for those who are connected, the board and volunteers because the only way you’re going to be successful in the fund-raising aspect is that i have a bigger network than yourself another people you know, the next. This is sort of a phase where you start moving into a traditional event, whatever that is e-giving example, agency we’re working with his only their foundation only has been around since two thousand five. This year, they did their first five k walk run on people connected to the walk run like you prior to the walk, when they had about a hundred people on their database after the walk run, they have over ten thousand people, not a smaller donors, the twenty five fifty dollars who donate to someone who walking and running into cause put down that now they have a database, that’s, actual prospects, people that take in mind and then move forward with. So you have to do something that’s going to increase that database, you’re going, you’ve got to really you can’t you can’t fund-raising without a database, but interesting, though you don’t, you know you didn’t start with event fund-raising back in the in the start up phase, you weren’t saying, have a gala. We’ll do a walk run, thie, but i do think a lot of people think of events is the only way to do fund-raising but so i think i’m just emphasizing all the message that you’ve said before this before you got to the events from the event was not the first way to raise money, right? Well, the biggest reason why lots of groups start that way is because most people connected to these ideas don’t have a non-profit background and most likely definitely don’t have a fund-raising background, a professional fund-raising background. So the only thing that they know is the traditional galas, golf outing, dinners and those types of things they don’t know the sophistication around major gifts and the moves management and the ways that are going to attract foundations and corporations, so they go to what they know that’s why i said that in the early stages, you’ve got to bring on some expertise, that’s going to help you sort of sort of figure out the best mode and bringing that money and get to the traditional type of stuff you need resource is it’s it’s it’s unless, like again, unless you have two dollars. To pay the caterers and the event and all the other stuff a front you can’t just do an event, events have a lot to cost to them and you don’t want to run a one something that’s not going to get you any profit, and they’re also incredibly labour intensive, very labor intensive, very labor, and i think a lot of people don’t realize what goes into making sure that the bunting matches the flowers. Well, the worst part about is they don’t realize that the real work for fund-raising happens after events, you know, it’s who attended, what did they get out of that event and who in that room has the potential to do something much beyond right? The price of the two hundred dollars ticket? You’re follow-up your follow-up on dh that’s directly now gets to what you said earlier when we were in the start up phase. You’ve got to find the people who come to the organization of those thousand or so that you found online who were the top ones that you need to follow up with same thing after you’re after your event. Who were the top attendees thatyou need to follow-up exactly in a strategic ways and maybe more personal ways than you’re following up with the other many hundreds who came, hopefully right, let’s move to maturity. Sure fund-raising here, what is our fund-raising model look like? Well, the fund-raising at this point, you should have ah, probably have a head of development, a director of development, smaller staff, some depending on the size agency. Much bigger staff, it’s going to be much more sophisticated. So your your development operations actually starts now breaking into two operations, you have your annual fund where you have to raise a certain amount of money to to need to keep the agency moving its programs, the staff paying everything that supplements all the other revenues of the agency. The other piece is creating the strategic longer term campaigns, whether it’s an endowment fund building a reserve if you own a building what’s, you know, the capitol pieces far building a new building or fixing things, you know, all sorts of reasons why you need to be in a major gifts mode, and you had to be able to manage those operations at the same time. You can’t just be in one and and do the other i’m insured agency amateur fund-raising development department can do both on last minute at least is also don’t forget about the plan giving component, which is very important by that by despite you should have the ability to really start taking your donor’s through their life cycle of e-giving on and that’s really important piece. Yeah, and if you’re not familiar with plans e-giving it’s it’s essentially encouraging people to remember the organization in their state plan, somehow that could be life insurance or simple bequest in their will. It’s like, sometimes it’s going back to the original founders and going back to the original people helped start the agency and saying, hayden, you know, we need you to leave a legacy you made something that now is around thirty five, forty years, whatever the years are, but it wants to be around for the next hundred years in order to do that, we need a sound investment. We need the sound endowment that’s going to secure an anchor, the agency what’s, the what’s, the key thing in the mature stage that you think non-profits don’t do a cz well as they ought to, they had to. Say one thing that you wish mature agencies organizations would do that they don’t, what would that be? Well, from fund-raising standpoint, i think the plan giving component is a huge one that i think too many agencies, i hate to use the word ignore, but put on the back burner or don’t put enough effort toward, but more important is thinking more strategic long term. So i think a lot of agencies plot along and do really well on the campaign and then when the moment arises or the question arises about hey, we need a campaign to do x, y and z above and beyond for whatever needs those are it’s it’s, they haven’t been doing enough to cultivate their donors, so that face takes a lot longer. So if i had the hole in the roof and we need to fix it and it’s going to cost us the two million dollars for the capital campaign, we needed to do it, you know, in a year from now, but we haven’t matured our donor’s ready to do it and it’s going to take more like two and three years so never think that the annual campaigns the only thing that’s going on the too many mature agencies think about the here and now, but, you know, i always think about your donors about what they’re doing for you anally, but also cultivating them to think about, okay, when we are ready to have a major initiative and they could be helpful to that major initiative, are we will we be ready to ask them? That’s the next stage is stagnation. That sounds like something we should avoid. Exactly, hoping i don’t mature that’s not part of my life cycle, right? So how do we avoid stagnation? Well, that is everything that you just described is a combination of that it’s also being able to evaluate taking a hard look once again it’s strategic planning process. But i’ma call organizational eagerness. Okay, so as we talked about in the start of face having egos, organizations, whoever tour sometimes have their own ego to themselves because i feel like the importance of whatever they’re doing or what they have been doing for many, many years still remains. So you have to be evaluating your programs. You have to be evaluating what you’re doing and that impact on the community. Can you be doing something new, evaluating the market to what if, what if the need’s right, that should be in the community all the time assessing whether your work is still relevant? Exactly. I mean, if you’re running let’s, say, youth program at a particular school and you know, when you first started about that, you had a waiting list and kids were climbing to get in there and in the last two years, you know, you go on visited in the half, the room’s half empty something’s not resonating there, so you can’t rest on your laurels and your funders will quickly get to that piece they’ll start seeing your outcomes. Obviously anybody who’s ever written the grant know is that at some point you have to write a report, and at some point, if you’re going to renew, you’ve gotta prove those outcomes, and when the numbers are not there, they’re not there, and so that will quickly. So you you can’t sort of live in that mode. You’ve gotta kind of always say, hey, we’ve got to be evaluating ourselves. What can we challenge ourselves with? It doesn’t necessarily meeting creating something off mission, because that’s what a lot of agencies, right is staying on mission, but creating something that will continue, you know, reinvigorating, reengage, you know, there’s various things, and the other thing is, obviously your volunteers, you got to be consistent with your board. Ah, there’s, nobody out there does that i’ve ever met who could be on a board for more than eight, nine, ten years and still be assed valuables they were from the beginning boardmember can leave, can moved often agency and still connect to the agency and still be important. But there’s a huge value, bringing someone new to fill that seat, new energy and many organizations, you know, they hold onto boardmember fearful to ask them to step down. We have just thirty seconds left. Jeff decline is the last stage what one piece of advice for avoiding declined? Well, usually that’s a hard thing if your agency the biggest thing that you can do to avoid declining a za non-profit is probably when you get to the stagnation phase, realize it quickly and devise a plan quickly usually it’s a deficit that you’re dealing with and never be afraid to cut a part of your program or your agency, because it could be the detriment of your entire agency, don’t hold onto something to to know in the long run we’ll put you out of business, even though you just hold on it because of legacy or just something you’ve always done. You have to be willing to cut your losses. Jeff sobel is founder of jeffrey sobel consulting and his conference topic at national philanthropy day is non-profit life cycles and culture, the development strategies for each stage. And i think this is jeff very interesting conversation, very relevant for people who are thinking about a non-profit there at that brainchild phase, they really should know what what lies ahead. Oh, yes. Is that there’s a lot? Thank you very much for being a guest. My pleasure. This is tony martignetti na non-profit radio coverage of national philanthropy day, hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter that was my pre recorded interview fund-raising throughout your life cycle. I recorded that with jeffrey sobel at westchester county chapter of the association for fund-raising professionals national philanthropy day in november two thousand eleven. Just last month. Right now we take a break and after the break it’s, tony’s, take two and then marrying major and planned gif ts. So stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation top trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m ken berger from charity navigator. Welcome back to the show, it’s time now for tony’s take to my block this week is my next-gen charity video interviews last month at the next-gen charity conference, i interviewed about eight of the luminaries who they had a cz part of their program. It was a pretty exciting conference close to a thousand people were their very jazzed up audience heard from a lot of very interesting people, and i got to interview a bunch of them. We were media sponsors for that conference. One of them is craig newmark he’s, the founder of craigslist, and now more recently, craigconnects craig and i talked about consistent messaging and knowing when to stop talking peter thumb and i talked about perseverance in the face of disappointment. Peter is the founder of ethos water aria finger, chief operating officer of do something dot org’s, which is a site devoted to getting young people involved in volunteering with non-profits joined me to share ideas about how to motivate teenagers to support your work market echo of eco enterprises, the well known clothing lines talked about his board service. Um, i talked with charles best he’s the founder of donors choose dot or ge and he and i talked about connecting donors to the causes they support. You may know donors choose that’s the site where teachers post their needs in the classroom, and then individual donors devote money to those to those needs. Neil strauss uncovered lessons for non-profits from his undercover work in a secret society of pickup artists. He infiltrated this society when he was on assignment for rolling stone magazine. You can learn what eric sapp kristen learned from taking two hundred of our nation’s thought leaders and entertainers out for a cup of coffee. He traveled the country in a volkswagen microbus and cold called about two hundred of our nation’s leaders and entertainers on dh people you know, from the arts and politics and invite him out for a cup of coffee, including jimmy carter, don rickles, henry winkler, let’s well, in the interview, i brought out some lessons that he learned from talking to all those people, and disney made a film about his his journey, and the movie is the journey so links to these and a lot of other next-gen videos are on my block mpg a dv dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, december ninth. Now we have a pre recorded interview marrying major and planned gif ts you’ll learn about how these two could be compatible from charlie gordy, director of planned giving in harvard law school, and margaret hohman principle of home in consulting see whether this could be a match made in heaven between major and planned gif ts and here’s that interview this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We are in the heart of san antonio, texas, on the river walk i guess now are margaret hohman and charlie gordy. Margaret is principal holman consulting in new york city and charlie gordy is director of planned e-giving at harvard law school. Margaret charlie welcome! Thank you. Thankyou, tony. Good to be here. It’s. A pleasure to have both of you your your session topic is job fusion or confusion marrying major and plant gifts. Charlie, let me start with you. What what’s the possible confusion. Well, as a lot of organisations respond to what’s going on in the economy, the pressure for outright current e-giving has led to a de emphasis on plan giving deferred e-giving and individual playing, giving officers or having to respond to that looking at being merged into a major gifts rolls, and that is causing some confusion for them, i think, personally and also institutionally in what the best approach is to overall fund-raising into their donors, okay, but is it not a good idea to be breaking down silos between major e-giving and plan giving? I think breaking down the silos is absolutely critical and the structure internally you should be very flat. Margaret pointed out in our first session that what she sees and obviously let her speak for herself, for what she sees in the future is a very flat structure. The silos should be broken down, and major gift and plan giving officers should work very, very closely together with donors, but they are different techniques of fund-raising they’re different processes you think differently when you’re focusing on on plan giving versus major e-giving, um, and all playing gifts are major gifts essentially just depends on how you get there, okay? We’re going to talk a little about what the different thoughts might be and margaret, we will get to what the future looks like, but before we get there. I just, you know, sort of leading into the topic too. Your your session description suggests that changes in the economy changes in the tax law are impacting this issue. Indeed, the more complex, constant and confusing change is that there are with tax laws right now from the charitable deduction that proposed change in the estate law. State tax law it coming it going? How do i plan for a bequest? Should i die this year? Should i die next year? Those are all things that are confusing not only to gift officers but also to donors and that is really driving a lot of the expertise surrounding both major gift work and planned gift work. Thie economy obviously has an effect to when the economy stumbles, major gifts go down. Plan gifts are not as affected by the economy because they are future gifts. They’re more long term on many organizations. If they have a plan gift program that has been working that will be the bridge between the bad economy and staying alive is because i’m getting bequests. I might not be getting major gifts now. Are you seeing in your consulting practice some regret among charities that don’t have a plan giving probono yes, wishing, wishing they started ten even five years ago maybe yes, and many organizations who said, hey, listen, our plan give program is just going a million miles an hour, we’re getting millions of dollars, so we don’t have to do anything now on then all and then it starts this gradual decline for about five years, and somebody in the finance office says, oh, my gosh, how come our be question come is going down it’s because we haven’t been doing anything well, let’s put some money into doing anything now they’ve got another five year wait, so you got a ten year trough s o that the name of the game is consistent, it needs to be this consistent effort indeed, from oh planned gift and go ahead, charlie. Yeah, tow follow-up on what margaret said, i worked with an organization a few years ago on a consulting basis, and the cfo there said, look, i could shut the plan giving program down tomorrow, and i wouldn’t see it, i wouldn’t see any impact for five years, and i’ve got a budget problem right now that i’ve got it solved. So, isn’t that a a good solution? And i had to tell him that no, in fact, it’s absolutely the wrong thing to do because you are going to hurt the long term financial health of your organization for a short term gain and, uh, our listeners, i want to point out charlie has a terrific bowtie on, and for those who are on the videos were doing videos is not a clip on i want to make it very clear, it’s clearly not a clip on much, much classier guy than then those clip on men. So what? What are some practical solutions, margaret, for breaking down the silos and bringing the two together? Well, one of the practical solutions is to train cross train land, gift officers and major gift officers in each other’s areas of expertise, so that in essence, you become a generalist. And i find now that my clients, when they do have an opening for a major gift officer, are looking for somebody who can talk plan gifts. We want two for the price of one. When i started in the fund-raising world nineteen seventy six, there weren’t planned gift officers. There weren’t specialties because of the way the economy went and democratic demographics of donors it caused institutions to create silos. Teo, answer that need the demographics are changing the old that big group of older folks who are prime plan gift prospects are dying off now. There aren’t very many of them left, and we’re entering this age of the boomers and the silence who can both make a major gift and a plan gift. And now we need to have people who can talk both things, but we also have to educate our boards, but more often than not, we really have to address the problem that charlie ran into and talk to our finance people and explain how this really works. Let’s, start with the first of the things that you mentioned, the cross training how how deep should the major gift officer’s training be implant e-giving are we talking about just the ability to open a discussion or that they could go further? Maybe even maybe even they can meet with donors? Advisors? I mean, how deep should that training b of the former plan gift officer now? Now cross training? Well, it is really is going to do for sort of the former major gift officer. Krauz right, it’s going to really depend on the individual and the institution? I like to make my major gift officers what i call dangerous going like for them to know when they’ve gotten to the point where they don’t have the answer and and can say confidently, i don’t have the answer that let me get back to you on and that way you accomplished two things when the donor gets the right information, but you have another contact with the donor, thus getting the relationship continuing our good relationship on. So i like to get them as dangerous as possible. They need to understand the basic concepts and know when to say i need, you know, i need to call charlie, okay, so now, charlie yeah, yeah follow-up on that i work with major gift officers att the law school that are are really exceptional a cz you’d expect, and they still aren’t very comfortable talking about plan giving on on a regular basis. I have one that asks me a couple of times a year again to explain the difference between a gift annuity and trust. And that’s fine, and i’m happy to do that and that’s a great role for me. What i like to do is educate them to know what to listen for. You know, i have a house that i’m no longer using very much. I’d love to give, but and then to follow on what margaret said when the donor says that, but i like them to say to no be comfortable saying, well, you know what? If we were able to show you a way that you could still make your gift and take care of those other financial concerns that you have, they don’t need to know how the gift annuity payments are taxed or how the charitable deduction is calculated, but that their their methods that the organization can present that will allow the donor to still make their gift and take care of those other financial concerns that have so that suggests that there there does still need to be an expert in planned e-giving at at the organization, we can’t all just be flat, absolute cross trained? Absolutely. I believe that one hundred percent. Yeah, well, the the other thing, too is well, i also believe that there should be a plan give expert on everybody staff not every organization can afford to do that is going to get there. So using expertise either if you’ve got somebody on the board whose attacks planning attorney or trusting a state’s attorney and you can use that and get some advice or there are a lot of consultants out there who would be more than happy to work with an organization on on an hourly basis or whatever other way you khun by the expertise you need, what you can’t buy is the donor relationship. Yeah, if you have the luxury of the budget toe, have somebody on staff that’s great, but as margaret points out in his, you point out, tony, if you don’t have that it’s available and you can find it and it’s it’s almost like the same link between the major gift officer and the in house plan giving person with more expertise and then thean house plan giving person in the outside consultant everybody knows how far they can take it and when to bring in somebody else to actually make the gift happen. Let’s, go into some of the little detail, charlie. About what you suggested earlier, what to listen for lets you know so that listeners can actually get some of the benefit of the of the training. What are some things that gift officers should be listening for? That would suggest a good plan to give prospect well, first in in, in doing the planning to visit someone looking at their history, their donation history, consistent gifts over a long period of time, maybe it’s one hundred dollars, maybe it’s, fifty dollars, over five, ten years, maybe it’s a thousand. So they have that that that philanthropic connection with the institution, when you’re meeting with them of and your goal, perhaps, is an outright major gift. And they say, well, i’m just i’m not very liquid right now, so they have assets, but they’re tied up, maybe in stocks or in real estate, and if they’re in stocks and real estate, those of the assets they have it’s, a perfect candidate for a plan, gift talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. Durney okay, margaret, any any further advice on? Well, oftentimes i hear people say, i don’t think i can afford this right now, and i want to take care of my family so that that again gives us that opportunity to talk about some more unconventional ways, shall we say, to make those kinds of gifts? When i work with organizations toe to go out and talk to donors, i tell them often, teo, tell the donor to take care of themselves first their family’s second and us third. And there are ways that we can help you take care of yourself, your family and then us that don’t involve writing a check. Okay, what’s one of those ways. Let’s. Go into a little detail. Well, obviously, their life income gifts that can provide for your wife, your spouse, your elderly sister, whatever. You can still make a gift. That person is getting income gets it out of your state plan. There are a myriad of different ways that you can do this. I think baby boomers are going to be looking at life income gifts as good alternatives for retirement planning and that’s going to be the new frontier four. Major and plant gift officers and charlie. Those the most common life income gifts that we see, i guess, would be the charitable gift annuity and charitable remainder. Trust that that’s right gift annuity is much more common, usually for a smaller dollar amount less flexible in the planning process than a charitable remainder trust which can i usually take care of a need to have a growing income stream versus a fixed one. And the terms of the trust document can generally be varied. Mohr then a gift annuity, which is just a simple contract. Okay? And you also have a lot of state regulation around charitable gift annuities. We want listeners to know that it’s not it’s, not a lot of states. Most states it’s not something you can just start issuing tomorrow. No, there. There are a lot of things involved. I also sit on the board of the american council on gift annuities. And there are a lot of things involved when you decide to get into a gift annuity program. State regulations for sure need to be complied with, but also the liability, the contractual liability that you’re exposing your organization to has to be. Matched against the benefits of the program, you have tohave ah, the ability to assemble a pool of gift annuities fifteen, twenty, twenty five gift annuities so you’re diversifying the risk over the portfolio of annuities, you have to have an investment strategy that’s going to be appropriate to deliver that annual income. So there, it’s very simple to set up in terms of the contract and the gift, but much more complicated to maintain and run appropriately, since you’re on the board of the american council on gift annuities wanna give a little pitch just to give the web web? You know the girl for you? Www dot a hyphen, web dot or ge great organization has been around since the twenties recommending gift annuity rates, recommending not prescribing but recommending gift annuity rates that are really in the best interests of the donor and the organization over the long term. Thank you for that, and i want you to know that i didn’t know the girl in case i didn’t say i was happy to have you say, but i don’t want you to think, oh god, what if i don’t know what you’re on the board so i figured you’d be saying i told you there was a safe question. I hope that means i got it right. His hyphen web dot. Org’s that’s, right. Um, let’s see, margaret way talked a little about the future of this job fusion versus confusion. What? What were your points in the workshop? Well, the basic point is, is that while we continue to be donor-centric in all of our activities way we have to begin to understand that we’ve made these silos to define for ourselves as fund-raising professionals where we are in the hierarchy of our organizations, donors don’t care, they just want to deal with the right person at the organization and for some donors, learning that i’m going to be talking to the director of major gifts, paints a bull’s eye on my forehead, and that makes me uncomfortable. But if i was talking with margaret from the development office, who was going to help me make a gift externally, we have to be flatlined. We all have to look like we’re equal. We all have to be able to help our donors do what they want to do. So i see the future is that? That titles will pretty much be the same. Go away internally, we’ll have our organised beloved organization charts, but to our donors it will just be a flat line and that’s it extends beyond major and planned giving, though to visit, and you will giving corporate and foundation sponsorship and support work. I was at a event for a client recently, and everybody proudly was wearing their name tag with their job title on the front and the director of major gifts was walking down the floor, heading to see a specific donors and she could see the job title and she turned her back to talk to somebody else. You just bull’s eye, i know i’m going to be asked for a big gift, so i think this just continues to be donors and we have to pay a tent. We have to listen to what they’re saying, but we’ve been saying this for i don’t know at least a decade, but now i’ve been in play e-giving for fourteen years, not as long as either of you and i’ve been hearing donor-centric donor-centric put the donor’s needs first, but in terms of job hierarchies and descriptions, it hasn’t. Happened yet? Ah lot of that has to do with it coming from down from the top and how executive directors like to organize and how they manage on, and it takes a sophisticated executive director to understand how important it is the public perception of a donor to working with somebody, they really associate the person, not the title with the organisers. And i remember advice from someone i know you both know hyre robert sharps sr who used to preach that his preferred job title for everybody would be assistant to the president. Yes, because what don’t right, johnny, what donors wouldn’t want to talk to the assistant to the president? No, no, i think that’s right, and the the name tags that i like the most for me personally just say alumni affairs and development. They don’t say director of plan giving because i think margaret’s right? You get a very different reaction or when i send emails and i’m thinking about this as i’m saying it, i may change my email tag, take out the director of playing e-giving and just put in alumni affairs and development because people see that and the point about it. Being flat internally and donor-centric we’ve been hearing the donor center, as he said for about a decade, the flat internally i think it’s been less and less quick to come because organizations haven’t had to respond internally. Now, we’ve had the two budget crises over the last decade two thousand to two thousand eight organisations saying, you know hey, what are we doing in terms of how were structured and the danger is that playing giving gets lost in that shuffle in the in the flat, the flattening and it all becomes major gift focus with a loss on the play e-giving focus i think if it’s done right, you could do it both very successfully have a flat organization, somebody internally that has the plan giving expertise. I can work successfully without being siloed to enhance major gift officers success and still preserve the plan giving expertise and function and that’s the fusion in urine yourself in your workshop titled the job fusion i think that’s right. I want to bring these things together. Any closing thoughts, margaret? Well, we just want to say thanks again for having me us today and we, i hope, all of our listeners get one or two good nuggets of ideas that’s the idea. Margaret hohman is principal of woman consulting in new york city. Charlie gordy is director of playing giving at the harvard law school. I want to thank you both for joining us. Thank you. Thanks, tony. Pleasure to have you. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning two thousand eleven. That was my pre recorded interview marrying major and planned gif ts from the national conference on philanthropic planning earlier this year. I want to thank jeff sobel and charlie gordy and margaret hohman and the organizers of a f p westchester’s national national philanthropy day that’s, where i talked to jeff sobel and the folks at the partnership for philanthropic planning, they were the hosts of the conference where i interviewed charlie gordy and margaret hohman next week. Social media inbound zombie is his consulting company, social media marketing for non-profits is his blogged john hayden will be my guest and also scott koegler, a regular contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news will share the latest on tech for your office. Keep up with what’s coming up on the show. Sign up for our insider email alerts on our facebook page. You know where to find facebook and then it’s just the name of this show. If you like the show like the page, please become fan. You can listen live or archive. Itunes is where you listen archive and you could get to our itunes paige at non-profit radio dot net. You can subscribe there and listen on your computer smartphone tablet the device of your choice. You can follow me on twitter. You can follow the show on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio. 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Tony’s guests this week:
Kristen Schultz, senior vice president at Crescendo Interactive
Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com
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Dahna welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me two weeks ago when we had your plan. That was jason hutchins as my guest, he’s, the president of non-profit solutions. And he told you why you need a night plan and what belongs in it. We talked about budget equipment outsourcing the cloud and mme, or to help you avoid an crisis and the goods on google plus pages are tech contributor scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news. He’s on with me once a month, you kicked the tires on the recently released google plus pages for organizations. Should you take one for a test drive? How are they different than facebook pages? And last week i hope you enjoyed your thanksgiving. I hope you did not go shopping on thanksgiving day this week. So me for pg kristen schultz, senior vice president for crescendo, is going to share her research and interview results on the best uses of social media to support your plan to giving program video’s testimonials blogging tech in from technical information and she’s joining us from camarillo, california our next guest on the show is also from california. It’s going to be your non-profit in politics emily chan, one of our regular legal contributors from the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco, identifies the limits around political campaign activity and election earing we’re approaching a presidential election year. What can your non-profit do? And how does the irs decide whether you’ve crossed the line under the first amendment? What can your employees say on tony’s? Take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour my block this week is thank you. There are many things i’m thankful for, and i’ll talk a little about those on tony’s take two. We’re live tweeting this week we have a guest live tweeter manette singleton from atlanta, georgia. Thank you very much, lynette, thanks for joining us. You can follow lynette she’s at s c g for non-profits and that’s a number four and to join the conversation on twitter with lynette’s live tweeting use hashtag non-profit radio this show is sponsored by g grace corporate real estate solutions. We’re going to take a break. And when we returned, kristen schultz from crescendo. So me for pg, stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl. Offset. Two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five, zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com oh! Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio, i guess now is kristen schultz. Kristen is an attorney at crescendo interactive. She specializes in online marketing and social media for planned gif ts she speaks widely and is a principal faculty member of gift college christians on the board of the american council on gift annuities and isa boardmember for the partnership for philanthropic planning of greater los angeles, you’ll find her on twitter at crescendo tweet and her planned giving blogger is kristen schultz dot black spot dot com i’m very glad that kristin’s work brings her to the show. Christian schulz welcome tony, pleasure to have you on you did some research and some interviews to try to discover best practices for planned e-giving why don’t you tell us what your methodology was? Yeah, i was receiving questions on social media in my work with plan giving, charity and charities were asking me why my organization use social media were planned gift. Is anyone using these tools successfully? And how much time will this take? And really what they want to know is what is the return on their investment are they going to achieve any result from these efforts? And so i began looking for information in this area and found a lot really on the current giving side, but nothing specifically directed towards certain gifts. So i started to compile my own information i it took a survey and advertise it broadly and receive the numerous examples from charities across our community and began to share those as best practices that they spoke this last year and next year. Well, ok, and how many websites did you look at? How many charities did you hear from? I would say over a hundred different sites, and then i personally interviewed sixteen charities that i thought were the best example i found, and those are the ones i featured in my study, ok? And did those i guess the sixteen since you thought those were the best? Did they cluster around any particular mission? Charitable work? No, they were all different, i would say the majority of securities that are doing social media, our educational institutions in that makes sense because they’ve bought vast alumni networks and they’re already doing that for their students on. So i found a large group in the college and university field, but i have examples that are hospitals and medical centers and community foundations, all different types of organizations, okay, when i think that’s reassuring to charities to know that whatever their mission, they can do well with social media for planned e-giving maybe we should just give a little encouragement a little inducement, perhaps teo be using social media and promoting online giving? Well, obviously that’s an increasing trend right online, giving it is it’s an increasing trend and there’s been tremendous growth in that area there surveys produced by blackbaud, and they do the online giving report on video online e-giving group in two days ten by thirty five percent and at the same time, we’ve seen this rise of social media so there’s this explosion and growth on the web charities air trying to find easier ways to communicate more efficiently and cost effectively, and social media certainly is a place to be. Even if you think it’s a bad your donors or not, there they are, they’re there i looking at pictures of the grandchildren, and they’re on these mediums every day, and so it’s a perfect place to capture their attention? Do you find people who think that facebook, twitter linked in four, square are fads? Uh, you know, there certainly are some people that think that, but i think the majority of recognizing, like, the internet, a lot of people don’t want to set a plan giving websites, and now they realize that the direction the technology is going and we to be there and the charities that are there are going to capture that audience, and i didn’t mention google plus and i guess right, i guess you could say, you know, the i’ve seen written that tweeting it will be will be around for a very, very long time and there’s, the question is whether twitter would be around for a long time and that sort of captures, you know, the concept of meeting people online will, i think, is unending, but just whether it’ll be facebook ten years from now or google plus or something else that we don’t we’ve never even heard of, so i think the concepts will endure is just what platforms? Yeah, certainly we’ve seen changes in technology, you know, starting my face-to-face book, and now there might be a migration to google plus, we’ll have to see, but i think the idea is that individuals are out there, they’re using social media on a daily basis and whether you like the concept or not, that is where your supporters are at and if the captive audience and so i think there are a lot of charities that are really leveraging that they’re posting on facebook i daily basis, they’re not necessarily using it for fund-raising purposes and i don’t think that’s the goal, but they’re using it to build a relationship, and that really is the key. When we talk about plan, get what you want, a relationship and how should ah non-profit start in social media for planned e-giving yeah, i think the most important thing is to find out where your community is and the way you do that is through testing and listening there’s a lot of literature in this area that cantor kind of social media guru for non-profit she’s written about this non-profit technology network and ten has a lot of resources, but the idea is that you need to find out where your community is, and the best way to do that is to set up a facebook page, set up a twitter account, start posting and tweeting, advertise with your email on your website, and see where you are followers or your fans are at. And then, you know, this is the medium that’s working for me, and then you need to try some different types of posts or tweet to see what your community response. Teo so it’s a matter of really testing, listening and it’s going to be different for each organization. Christian schulz is senior vice president at crescendo. We’re talking about social media for your plan giving programme. We’re going to take a break. Please stay with us tooting, getting dink, dink dink, you’re listening to the talking alternate network duitz get in. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, back-up two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rotter with us fund for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio kristen schultz from crescendo interactive and i are talking about social media for your plan to giving program kristen i since you mentioned that this is not necessarily for getting gifts directly, but really just in large part building dona relationships. One of the poll questions that i asked listeners for before the show is whether you’re non-profit is using facebook to build donorsearch ships on day, three quarters of the respondents said either yes, quite a bit or yes, slightly and twenty five percent. We’re not using it at all, so overwhelming majority using facebook to build dahna relationships, what do you like to see in in terms of goal setting for social media around planned e-giving i think in terms of gold, you have to set some basic objective and then begin to track your results. I like the smart objective that non-profit technology, uh, network uses smart. I mean your specific about your goals, they’re measurable there, attainable the relevant and their time bound. For example, in the plan giving context, it might be that i post a link to sign up for my organization can give you use letter on facebook and i might that’s the goal of achieving thirty new sign up in the next thirty days so that’s, quantitative and it’s time down. But once you’ve set a basic objective like that, you can use some of the measurement tools to actually measure how you’ve achieved your results and absolute organizations want to see they want to see that they’re achieving results from their social media efforts. Where will we find the and ten groups? Do you know? Do you know there you are, l ten ntn dot or ge and that’s the non-profit technology network? Is that right? Okay, i have a lot of resource latto resource is out there for people who are dafs or social media experts who are actually doing the actual posting. Most of the organization’s i’ve talked to in the plane giving arena are not posting to the page. They have a general charity facebook page and there ford and post to that person. Okay, so let’s talk about some of the methods that non-profits can use are around social media for plan giving. What did you see around the use? Of video. Yeah, i’ve seen a lot of the area video, and i think this is a growing area. Facebook allows you to drop videos on youtube and establish a link, or you can record a video via webcam. Texas am university is an example of security that has dropped number of donors testimonials. I had a great one a couple of months ago. A couple of made a request through their will, and they are a couple that has spent generations of their family, their children and grandchildren through texas a and m. And so they shared their story and talked about why you should contribute teo and m in their requests, gifts and the benefit of social media with dr stories and testimony, menu testimonials and videos that individuals can respond right on the paint and so you can share in that enthusiasm. Both seems staff testimonials where staff members, charities will talk about why they’ve made a commitment to their will on and then mission videos are very popular. The citadel foundation has a great video talking about the work of their organization. Save the chimps are really wonderful, custom branded video that shares images of their work so there’s a lot you can do with video about facebook and all summer long, andi want toby reassuring to our writings, which is small and mid sized non-profits that that these videos don’t have to be high end there’s been there’s really compelling stuff out there? That’s really just like a flip cam, right? Really, you could drop anything on facebook that meet their specifications, but you’re just simply dropping the video out there and establishing a link, you know, youtube or where, and it just doesn’t need to be, you know, high production value as long as that you mentioned some donorsearch s timoney als and another question that i asked around facebook and since you mentioned it for listeners before the show is, are you using facebook to support your plan to giving program? Nobody said yes quite a bit about a third a little more than third said yes slightly and then all the rest, about two thirds said no, they’re not using facebook at all to support planned giving so summer some are using it for donor relationships generally based on the first question, but on this on this question, not really using it. So much for plan e-giving and that is true, and i did my survey there’s only a small group that it’s starting to use facebook and twitter and lengthen and some of these platforms for planned gift. But i think it’s a growing group, certainly we’ve seen a lot of growth the current giving side no securities air out there talking about their efforts, and they also have cast donation button paypal account’s attached to their facebook pages. But yeah, there hasn’t been a lot said about this in the plane, getting community and that’s why this research was so interesting to me, and i wonder if if some of that reluctance to use facebook for planned e-giving is because the older, older community sixty, people sixty seventies and eighties are reluctant to use facebook beyond, you know, just tracking keeping in touch with family. I think that some individuals you that correct, but it’s actually not if you look at these fucking site survey’s biggest growth has been in recent years women age fifty five plus they are online and again, they’re looking at grandchildren’s pictures and they’re on their facebook pages every day. And so there’s actually a growing group of seniors who are out there one of the individuals i talked with david moore from chapman university he’s got a facebook page that’s just dedicated to his plane getting group, and he established it because he found so many of the seniors who were supporters of the university were out there on facebook. So it’s surprising, but there is a growing group there and it’s, a group that you can capture their attention if you are out there with a present for your carrying on with kristen schultz, senior vice president for crescendo interactive. We’re talking about planned your social media for planned e-giving remind you that we are live tweeting when that singleton is guest live tweeting for us. Use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter and if you have a question you want to call in, we can’t take your call at eight seven seven four aito for one two oh eight, seven, seven, four aito for one two oh, you mentioned the quests kristen, is that really the place to start? If if you’re a small and midsize shop, is that the? Is that the place to start your social? Media effort? Yeah, it really is. The majority of plan gifts are still bequest. Request our blanket virtually any charity can offer and it’s interesting. Because if you look at the statistics, lawyers got confidence survey, sixty five percent of adults have no plan. And so a lot of individuals have not even begun to plan for their future. But planning when it does start its beginning earlier than we previously thought. It’s actually not a sixty five at forty forty five, the average age for the first will of actually forty four. And this is based on a study that was reproducing if key eventjournal average age for first requested forty nine and you can see actually metoo start capturing the attention of individuals in their forties when we talk about plan gift. Okay. And of course, i want to keep myself out of george in jail on the show we have judge in jail. And, you know, i said bequests. I just wanna make sure that everybody understands that that is a gift in someone’s will i think most people understand that, but i want to stay clear of dark in jail because if i’m in george in jail than be nobody to talk to you way we just have to hang up now would be the end so that we don’t want that. How about getting testimony? Sorry, getting technical information to either donors or advisors? How much of that did you see? I would say the most common plan getting post on facebook or tweet on twitter are short they’re typically wanted two lines with a short length back-up teo plan getting website and it’s really important to use a short link when you’re linking teo anything on your site, go to billy dot com or tinyurl dot com the best toasts are always the ones that linked to interactive tools or ask the reader to take action or respond. One organization i’ve seen it done quite well in marquette community foundation in northern michigan. They are on facebook and they have established a series of link on facebook. Teo will kit, and they invite people to download this freak it it’s a guide to planning your will and trust and that’s led to request discussions on the page. Uh, it’s resulted in vivid when someone asked questions on the page, and it seems that they’re interested to get planner will then take the discussion off the page and going have a normal visit, just like you would do with any plan gift, and that resulted in commitments for the organization. Both cast cash gift, but also bequest. Okay on dh that’s ah, technical information for donors. Did you see much use of technical information for advisors on being promoted around social media? I mean, i know technical sites exist for planners and advisors, but did you see non-profits encouraging advisers to go there through their own social media? I have not seen as much of that, but what i have seen is that there are a couple of non-profit that have advertise seminars for sessions for advisors, you, twitter and facebook, and i’m thinking of a jewish organization, the washington dc area, that sundown fairly effectively, but yeah, i don’t see a lot of post directed towards advisors from charity. Ok, let’s, talk a little about blogging. I know you. You have some have some tips about blogging. What? Just let’s again. Tryto encourage people. Why should there be a plan giving block? Yeah, i think that blogger is your own expression the way teo. Talk frankly about your work, your mission. And there are some organizations that have done that very effectively. Valencia college foundation in florida. Sorry, where was that? Was valencia? Yeah, valencia kottler foundation that gives planner there. Dahna marino has a great blogged herb log is on the word press platform and she’s featured a number of different types of plant gifts. She’s talked about the quest, uh, stock gift. She in a bequest post, will post her bequest language so individual knows how to include the charity in their plan, she always post to a gift acknowledgement, forms a form where the individual can fill that out, acknowledge a guest and join their legacy society on and all of her posts link back to her plan, getting website and her email and so she’s using the bloggers away to drive people to the plan, giving sight for more information and what’s your advice around driving people to the bog. I think that’s a great idea as well, it’s just that unless you build a really comprehensive block, you won’t have all of the information that you might have on your plan giving sight so you would have to make sure that you have big coverage of the different gift model and also, you know, some really motivating stories, but certainly she’s making a good example, someone who has built up a plan getting file, she actually files and takes her block and all of her blog’s are filed under plan giving. So if i wanted to find all of the information on plan giving on her block, i would just click on plan giving and she’s built up a fairly comprehensive list of posts on plan getting topic. So i think you can grow that over time, but it might not include all the information you might have on your plan getting website, you know, write clearly, and i was just i’m asking about howto promote the blog’s that people go there, people go there to see it, and then they find the information elsewhere. How does she promote or what? What’s your advice around promoting the block well, when i drop a block, i always tweet to it right away and so my twitter followers no, i’ve just posted something and then my block also migrates over to facebook so a charity can connect their blawg to their facebook page and by tweets also migrate over to facebook, and then i have my facebook page and my twitter account linked, smiling, then account, and so anyone whose only sin will be able to view both of those. And so when you connect your accounts like that, i think it really saved you a lot of time you only have to post or tweet in one place and the information then migrates over to the different platforms. So you’re reaching different audiences, and i know that he does that also effectively, they post to the block with your face. So all these are inextricably intertwined. They’re all pointing to each other. Okay? And then the block is the source of information deeper information you said their links and archives pointed to from there right? I also spoke to someone from unicef foundation and they have a great block. They feature donorsearch stories and they will post their facebook page a link to the block every time they have a new story. Alright, kristen, we have to leave it there. That’s video testimonials, technical information for donors and advisors and blogging. Christian schulz is senior vice president for crescendo interactive. She mentioned that she actively tweets. You can follow her on twitter at at crescendo tweet. Kristen schultz, thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you, it’s. Been a real pleasure having you. We’re going to take a break, and when we return, it’ll be tony’s take to my block this week. Thank you, and then after that, we’ll have emily chan talking about your non-profit in politics, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight, three. Conscious consultant. Helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable race? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back, it’s. Time for tony’s. Take two. My block this week is thank you. Thank you very much for listening to the show whether you listen live or to the podcast. There are a thousand of you that download our podcast from itunes and i’m very grateful for that. I also thank my clients for trusting me with their plan to giving work or their charity registration work. Thank you. Also to the eleven hundred people who get my weekly radio email alerts. I am grateful that you let me into your inbox thinly veiled as a radio show. Thank you. Thanks to those who follow my blogged and comment on the block, i have a lot to be thankful for. And there’s mohr gratitude expressed on my block this week. The name of the post is thank you and you’ll find my block at mpg a d v dot com. Thank you. That’s tony’s, take two for friday, december second. Joining me now is emily chan. Emily, how you doing? I’m doing really well. How are you? Excellent. Very good to have you back on the show. Emily is an attorney at neo-sage non-profit and exempt organizations law. Firm in san francisco, and she is principal contributor at the non-profit law blawg dot com. You can follow emily on twitter under her name at emily chan. Emily we’re talking this week about political activity we’re coming up on a presidential election year just generally what is the rule around political activity by non-profits so today we’re going to focus on five, oh one, three organizations, but it would be like public charities, and the general rule is that they’re absolutely prohibited from engaging in political campaign activity on so generally this means things like no contributions, no endorsement by the organization and no use of the organization’s resources by one candidate without giving equal opportunity to the other candidates. And i want to thank you for catching me. You’re very thoughtful when i say non-profits that’s really not right? We’re talking about five o one c three, the charitable part because there are lots of non-profits that are not five or one c three, not charitable, so thank you for that and you didn’t even even called me out and possible jargon jail violation was because i missed used the term we’re not talking about non-profits like labor. Unions or or membership associations were talking about exactly as you said, the charitable sector of the five o one see threes, but thank you you mentioned not using the charity’s resource is what what kinds of resource is do. Charities need to be careful about their employees possibly using or or the or board members possibly using so there’s actually quite an array of resources that could lead into political campaign activity if used improperly to touch upon the first one you mentioned about staff on board members there’s, a major confusion area for many five on three organizations about what their staff on board members could do in their individual capacity. Because people have first amendment rights so many times individuals want to engage in political campaign activity on their own behalf, sometimes it causes problems. So for example, when that individual uses their organizational email address, they make statements at an organization sponsored event basically things out with lead one to believe that it’s the organization speaking or asking that person to speak or supporting what that individual says. The organizations want to be very clear in making that separation between what an individual khun d’oh in. Their individual capacity on what the organization is prohibited from doing so that’s interesting just use of the company or the sorry the charity’s email. I mean, i think people probably use their office e mail all the time because it’s just so much easier than switching back and forth between that gmail account or something, but so if your if you’re using your charities email, then that’s gonna that’s gonna look like you’re speaking on behalf of the charity? Yes, it certainly could, and so organizations will wantto have policies to make sure that the individuals are aware of this. But i think in most cases, it’s not intentional. I don’t think the individual wants to get the organization in trouble, but as you said, it may just be a matter of convenience or just not being knowledgeable about the kind of restrictions on the organization. So the organization should really put this into a policy and educate their staff on board members about what they can’t dio another issue with the board members or officers in the organizational when they used their titles and they speak and then are identified as being what say, the president of such organization in most cases, you want teo avoid that one possible. But if identification is going to be used in that way, really have a disclaimer that it’s just for identification purposes, because, again, there needs to be a difference between, you know, joe speaking on behalf of joe it’s, president, when joe, as the president, speak on behalf of the organization. So if someone is introduced, then at an affair on and they are going to be talking about a political statement, so so let’s say, somebody introduces joe, and they say that he’s a board member of a charity and then joe goes and and gives his political opinion about whether it’s a candidate or an issue, you’re saying that the use of that charity’s name in the introduction could cause a problem it could. But again, there are ways to add more protection around that. So asking the host of the defense to put that disclaimer out there that it’s just for identification purposes, having now disclaimer language in let’s, say the event brochure just to be sure that the attendees who were coming in other outsiders who are seeing this know that it’s just being used. Teo identify this joe from another job, but it’s not actually on behalf of the organization that he people excellent advice? Is there a difference between talking about political candidates on dh political issues or they or it doesn’t matter if they’re certainly is so with this absolute prohibition? It’s a facts and circumstances, of course, many things god organizations care about are going to be related teo elections, i mean, the people who are in the office can really influence the kind of policy and, you know, laws that our leader decided, so there are some cream izabal election related activities. The best way i’ve had it described to me is that these air yellow light activities you always want to proceed with caution because of the fact that given any kind of facts and circumstances, it could cross over into this prohibited activity. So the kind of things that organizations can do with the would be activities like voter education, such a voter guide doing voter registration like we’ve seen get out the vote candidate education, so sending all the candidates to educate them, dr policy issues and also issue advocacy and if you have this in particular, is one area that organization should be cautious about as faras crossing into political campaign activities, especially if they have advocacy on certain wedge issues. So the kind of issues that really distinguish one candidate from another, such as, you know, pro life, pro choice, looking at all the facts and circumstances if an organization is only doing this in election years really close to the election that’s not going to look right to the iris, others, but if, for example, they do it all the years, including non election years made do with the same kind of mean and scope, and they’re really doing it then to highlight their charities agenda, then that’s going to be something that issue ads that is permissible okay. And again, the name of that test that the irs applies is facts and circumstances. Is that right? Yes, like most of their test way. Then you come back. Okay, well, i guess i’m context is important, but but it also that’s such a sort of a nebulous test that it doesn’t really give a lot of guidance to non-profits to charities, right? And so that’s again why these are yellow light activities. Proceed with caution certainly seek experts to help you, especially if you’re doing something that could be seen as possibly being in support or in opposition to a candidate for public office. It’s really important to note that because the rule as a friend and it comes right out of five one two three in the internal revenue code is absolute, the revocation is the penalty, so that is pretty severe. River give me revocation of charitable status. Yes, on so that’s a severe penalty that you know the death sentence, any charity? Generally speaking, you see more of intermediate penalties. And so there’s also a penalty tax that the irs can impose on the organization and managers who approved knowingly approve a political like senator. But because that way let me stop you. How does that penalty tax work tax on attacks on what so it attacks of the political expenditure. But it can be imposed on the organization, so that would be ten percent. And then it also could be imposed on a manager who knowingly approved the political senator. And that would be two point five percent of the political on does that mean the manager would be personally? Liable to pay that tax? Do you know or work in the charity? Pay it on the person’s behalf. The person would be personally liable. And there’s also a second layer of attacks that can come in if the organization does not collect it or the manager, another manager, or that the manager refuses to approve the correction. So again, there’s some serious final piece because the public charities really are not supposed to be election hearing organization there there for public purposes for the public. Good. Look, let me ask you, emily, how come things like voter education and voter registration? You mentioned how come those things are allowed? These are seen of activity that helped facilitate democracy, but the same concept, the pie again as far the organization needing to be mutual and nonpartisan. So, for example, with voter education guide, he should not be guide that rank candidate. They really should be informative so that it allows the individual to make the decision of who they will vote for voter registration again, that can’t be just targeted to certain political affiliation or, you know, some kind of group them that would be aligned more with party affiliations. Of the post suggest getting people to register so these guys really need to be fair and balanced on dh oh, my god, fair and balanced. That’s fox is to say that and then they told they can’t know that’s a bad phrase. Lynette singleton, don’t don’t tweet that out fair and balanced thes things need to be nonpartisan. They need to be neutral, right? Right? Is that it? Okay, um, something about the organization should keep in mind with all of its activities because again, they can help the facility with democracy help educate the public, but they really shouldn’t be making that decision for the public for who they vote for. Okay, what if a charity invites candidates to speak or invites a candidate to speak? How does that work if they want to have, like, a political night where the candidates themselves speak that impermissible election related activity? But again, there are certain back-up that the organization wants be sure they take care of so all candidates should be invited to speak. If you’re having something like a debate, you know each candidate should be able to have equal time to speak there should be unusual moderator creating as much of a mutual, unbiased environment as possible will be important. You know, no campaigning, far fund-raising should be taking place, and no one from the organisation should be making statements to support or oppose someone who was there. Okay, again, neutral, you even mentioned neutral moderator very good. Okay, we’re going to take a break. Emily chan is going to stay with us, of course, for our last segment, talking about your non-profit and politics and election earing. So stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to me, my chauffeur, ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit. You’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. They get non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Are you concerned about the future of your business or career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment, be more effective be happier and make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back. Emily chan is with me she’s one half of our regular legal contributing team of jean takagi and emily chan. And they’re both with the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco. Where is jean takagi this week? Emily? How come, she’s? Not with us? Xero jean is here. He’s taking care of some other matters that the office is busy. You know, that’s how the holidays go. Nice he’s in the office and you can’t come to the phone right away. He’s. Not in the office. Cubine is not the office. All right, you’re covering will be on the next. Okay, i keep document these things. There are records you mentioned training a couple of times, what’s what’s the best way to train employees about what the policies are so that they know that the constraints, the first step to training, i think, is having a policy, i think that’s something that many organizations don’t have when it comes, teo advocacy related work, having the organization first become aware and informed of what they need to know is so crucial to then passing on that training, too. Volunteers dafs so once they have the policy, it really just be something of going through the policy together of revisiting that every year and making sure it’s up to date with the law and making sure that that handbook essentially is acceptable to anyone who would be having access to things like the organizations, email or social media accounts or would be staffing and events. Something we haven’t talked about yet is on individuals, election choices. Can i use the charity’s email or platform and and say what i’ve, how, how i voted or how i feel about a candidate? I don’t know, not about a candidate, sorry, but can i say how i have voted or how i intend to vote that is most likely going to be viewed closer along the lines of prohibited political campaign activity, again, using the organization as a platform than to an outsider, it certainly can have the appearance of the organization itself now engaging in this prohibited political campaign activity, even if it was an intentional, really, you know, organizations should not be able to indirectly circumvent the rules, so in that case, organization should not be publicising how individual votes and individuals in the organization should not be. Using organizational resources are platform teo voice that since this fact in circumstances test is so nebulous, i’m going to guess that social media is going to be kind of a gray area, depending on what the activity is like. Like if the organization lynx let’s se teoh somebody’s into account its website. Yes, that’s correct. A social media is such a dissolving field right now, there’s a lot of uncertainties and question marks far how the wall will fall down on this, but it certainly creates more opportunity for organizations to unknowingly or even knowingly violate the rules. So the irs has suggested, basically, from most of it, revenue rulings, another information that’s coming out that it is going to hold charities responsible, for example, the links that they have established on their web site. Two other pages, so what’s item bob chat room bulletin for its face. But this is all being treated the same way printed material has been treated traditionally by the irs. Not something organization needs to be careful about, because, you know if you link to a page one day that page, maintain tomorrow and you may not know that so any kind of connection you have to outside link should be revisited and ensure that they’re not putting the organization in a bad position. How does the irs find out about these things? Do do we know? Do they randomly check oars that when somebody blows the whistle, how does how did they find out? There are many channels for which the irs will start investigating an organization. It may come from news reports from reports from the public from things that they know internally, but win organisations so out of form ten twenty three they also put their website. And so that is something that the ira certainly will look at at the initial stage, and it’s something that on record too. So there are many ways to find out what an organization is doing, especially today on and if you are let’s, say, a controversial organization, it would not be surprising them that the media would also be paying a lot of attention. He was, well, way talked about linking to candidates website. What if the organization links to all the candidates websites with that, then be election education or you think that would be over the line? It depends of course, so that the best you can always say no family depends what gene gene over here getting no, i’m joking it again. We want to look at the purpose for why they’re linking to begin with. So it’s it’s something more similar to a voter education guide where it’s saying, you know, descriptions about each candidate’s and then providing it as like a more information line that’s that’s more like, you know, neutral information being passed on to the individual. If it’s something though we’re now it seems like one candidate is getting, you know, kind of more favoritism, mama sight or, you know, kind of less exposure like you have three candidates on your main page and to that air four clicks in, so there are a lot harder to find then. Now the facts and circumstances changing there’s no real purpose for linking it. That also raises the question of why the winks or even they’re really it would depend on all the facts and circumstances for why those wings are on the page to begin with. And your answer that it depends, i think, is perfect because it is because charity’s it is a nebulous test. Facts and circumstances and charities need to be very, very cautious and risk averse. Yes, on a great point that comes out of the question to questions about the different ways that organizations can connect tio candidates. So i believe you mentioned things like friending or re tweeting or liking their pace. I mean, these are all questions that the irs is going to have to deal with. So from a more conservative standpoint, you know, organization stands, they want to be very cautious about kind of avoiding any situation that could potentially lead to being seen as a favour to them. No, again, if there’s no real purpose in doing it, it’s probably best to not put the organization at risk by testing the waters in those areas where the irs is not clear yet on how it’s going to take a position on the kind of action. Emily chan is an attorney at the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco. She’s, a principal contributor to the non-profit law block, which you’ll find at non-profit low block dot com. You can follow her on twitter at emily chan emily, thanks very much for being on again. Thank you for having me, it’s. Always a pleasure. Thank you. Give our regards to jean. I want to thank my guest this week, kristen schultz and, of course, emily chan and the net singleton thankyou for live tweeting lynette, you’ll find lynette at singleton consulting group that’s her company, and you can follow her on twitter at s c g the number four non-profits next week fund-raising throughout your life cycle, what does fund-raising look like in these stages of a non-profits life brainchild, startup adolescents, maturity, stagnation decline? And how do you avoid the last two of those stagnation in decline? We’re going to talk about fund-raising throughout your life cycle with jeff sobel principle of jeffrey sobel consulting and marrying major and planned gif ts are these two compatible? What do their courtship and marriage look like? Charlie gordy, the director of planned e-giving for harvard law school, and margaret hohman principle of home and consulting are going to reveal how to make this match one that’s made in heaven that was recorded pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning. Keep up with what’s coming up! Sign up for our insider email alerts on our facebook page. If you like today’s, show, please like us on facebook, click that button become a fan you can listen to tony martignetti non-profit radio live or archive on itunes that’s the place to listen archive, and you’ll find us at non-profit radio dot net. You can subscribe and listen any time on the device of your choice, you can follow me on twitter. The show’s hashtag is have said is non-profit radio, use it wisely and thanks again to our guest tweeter lynette singleton, the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff. Our line producer is janice taylor. Social media is by regina walton of organic social media. This show is sponsored by g grace corporate real estate services. If you’re worried about the rising costs of rent for your organization or need to capitalize on real estate, you’re non-profit owns g grayson company provides you, and you’re bored with analysis so that real estate decisions are made with transparency and thoroughness. George grace has been advising non-profits on their real estate decisions for over twenty five years. G grace dot com or eight eight, eight, seven, four, seven two, two, three seven i’m tony martignetti this is tony martignetti non-profit radio. I hope you’ll be with me next friday once. Two p m eastern. We’re always on talking alternative broadcasting always found at talking alternative dot com. Xero you didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving nothing. You could. 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Tony’s guests this week:
Michael King, vice president of gift planning at the National Christian Foundation
Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now”
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com
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Dahna welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for october fourteenth, two thousand eleven your aptly named host. This show is all about and always will be about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I hope you were with me last week when it was excel in email execution. My first guest was dave pulis, ceo and chief consultant at granite partners, and he shared five elements of effective email marketing and had tips for list hygiene. I hope your list is practicing safely and then claire meyerhoff, editorial director at the plan giving company and principal of the plant e-giving agency, revealed how to write for email fund-raising so that your message gets opened, read and respond to do this week e-giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning last week in san antonio, michael king of the national christian foundation shares the process for closing gift of unusual assets like collectibles, real estate and intellectual property. Then i’ll be joined by maria semple are regular prospect research contributor she’s, the prospect finder and she’s going to follow up on her last time on the show last month by going into greater detail on making your small shop prospect research proactive, and that segment is proactive. Prospect research between the segments. Tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. The national conference on philanthropic planning, where i was in san antonio last week, i’ll say a little about that, and this week’s block post separate the juice from the pits. A juicer at a restaurant got me thinking about fund-raising i’ll talk about that. We’re live tweeting this show as we always do. The hashtag is non-profit radio all one word to join the conversation with us on twitter. Right now, we take a break, and when we return, it’ll be e-giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com pompel welcome back, it’s, time now for my pre recorded interview with michael king, taken from the national conference on philanthropic planning, where i was just last week, talking about giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving and here’s. That interview. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning in san antonio, texas, were on the river walk in san antonio. And my guest right now is michael king, with the national christian foundation in alphabet of georgia. His seminar topic is giving beyond the check launching generosity with non-cash e-giving michael. Welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Good to be here. A pleasure to have you. You you point out something interesting in your seminar description that most gif ts are cash but that’s not most of the assets that people hold. Why don’t you describe those numbers? Stores? Yeah. It’s. Very interesting. If you look at all of the charitable giving that is done in our country each year about three hundred billion over eighty percent of that giving is simply done in the form of cash. And of the remaining twenty percent. A lot of that is given in the form of maybe marketable securities war, household goods that are dropped off at the salvation army, your goodwill. And yet if you look at the composition of wealth in the nation, cash represents less than ten percent of what people own go. And so there’s this small pond that everyone is kind of fishing out of when there’s this ocean of additional opportunity that oftentimes just doesn’t come on to the radar screen of most charity he’s or donors or advisors. Now can non-cash gif ts be appropriate for small and midsize charities? It can be absolute, even in some of the, you know, the smallest charities that exist in local communities. It’s not unusual for them, tow have at least some, you know, wealthy, influential folks that might serve on their board or support their organization. A lot of ah gifting in this area that is that that could be a great opportunity is closely held business interests. And so even for some organizations that hold annual events, you know, oftentimes they’ll have businesses that will sponsor those events. And so right, there is a source of potential opportunity or folks that maybe interested for receptive e-giving interest in their business and probably have never even contemplated. And what about those again for the small midsize shop, the complexity? How would we’ll deal with some of the exact, you know, different types of assets, but sure, just generally these do require some expertise. How it’s too small a midsize shop to do about that? Yeah, that’s a good point, and i would even say there’s, no question there’s significant complexity to gifts of these these assets there can be no technical complexities, rial challenges in terms of liability that an organization might be subject to, so not only with small and midsize organizations, but even a lot of large organizations simply lack the manpower, expertise, knowledge to really facilitate these gifts in a meaningful way from my experience, there’s really only a handful of organizations that have a deep expertise in this realm, but a number of them are organized in such a way, often times they use a donor advised funds platform because some of the greatest benefits are able to be secured by that type of a structure. And so they do a lot of work with small, medium sized large organizations basically serving as a middleman so that those organizations don’t have to secure the full breath of that knowledge and expertise. Ok, but if they see opportunities, they can partner with some of these other organisations that will do much of that work while still directing those ultimate proceeds to that particular charity, how does the donor advised funds? Work? Well, the donor advised fundez in the context of charitable entities generally is probably the newest concept. Even though it’s been around since the nineteen twenties, it really wasn’t until the nineties, when the donor advised fund really kind of took off. People became very familiar with it. Much of that was facilitated by fidelity mutual fund company and so as more and more people have experienced this it’s really become one on opportunity for individuals with more modest means tohave, a charitable entity somewhat similar, very similar to a private foundation, without all the headaches and and hassles of dealing with a lot of the rules that apply there. But then, even for wealthy families, we have more and more families that are using the donor advised funds has an enhanced alternatives to a private foundation, michael white. Why is the donor advised funds more suitable for these types of non-cash gifts that we’re talking about yet, particularly when we’re dealing with non-cash assets? The nature of the charitable entity is of critical importance, and the reason for that is the deduction limitations that apply to a private foundation versus a public charity status like a donor advised funds sponsor. And so if you were to give appreciated assets other than marketable securities to a private foundation, the givers deduction would be limited to the lesser of the fair market value or basis. And so, therefore, if you have a business interest or a realist, a piece of real estate that was highly appreciated or depreciated for time. Jack purposes, you would only get a deduction for whatever basis you had on that basis is generally the caught your tax cost. It could be different if you earned it. If you got the asset through. Ah, requesting a will, but it’s, generally your tax cost in the in the asset, right, that’s correct. So you could end up. Your point is you can end up with a deduction that would be much lower then the fair market value. I mean, you’re much, much lower. Exactly. So take the take the situation, tony of a privately owned business. No, probably the common scenario is if a business is successful, it probably started in somebody’s garage or with moderate means and has little to no basis at all. So in those context, a private foundation is wholly ineffective in making gifts of that nature. But a donor advised funds or other public charity status entity will receive a full, fair market value deduction. And i think this distinction between this these these two entities is why so many opportunities in this realm are missed is because typically when somebody’s working charity or in advisors working with a wealthy family on they have a generous heart almost by default. We all think, oh, they need a private foundation. And if we’re working in the context of a private foundation, generally, these types of assets just aren’t appropriate. They won’t really leverage the tax benefits that they can if we’re using a donor advised funds or another five public charity status organization. So then a savvy gift planner at at a charity would recommend the donor advised funds over the private foundation for the reasons you describe it e-giving ending, ending the ending, the ending, you’re listening to the talking, alternate network, things getting thinking. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities. Dahna you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Durney are there other vehicles methods of of giving that are not directly to the charity that are that are more suitable for these types of assets? I would say. Generally, the structure of the donor advised funds provides the greatest flexibility. But even in the context of business interest in real estate, they can certainly be combined with split interest arrangements like charitable remainder trust, charitable gift annuities, charitable lead trusts, the complexity in that context mounts. But there could be some real advantages to incorporating those split interest arrangements in conjunction with non-cash assets as well. Okay, is a is a small or mid size shop likely tto find maybe expertise that could help with this on their board? Oh, and or let me put it differently, cause that’s obviously gonna vary by board aboard that’s, not that’s. Not well put what types of expertise might be required if if that that the charity would need if if the donor wasn’t interested in a donor, advised funds or for whatever reason, it wasn’t going to pursue that route. What types of expertise are needed? Yeah, the, you know, certainly a competent charitable in a state planning attorney and a very competent now. Is that for the representing the charity or you mean represented donor or one on each side? Yeah, i mean, theoretically, you could have one on each side, but to have somebody with just that the general knowledge to teo be ableto lay out a road map of hay here, the different issues we need to think through here the different structure and planning opportunities. It’s generally going tto be helpful toe have somebody with some fairly deep knowledge. From a technical standpoint, you did mention the board, and certainly the board can be ineffective. Resource, probably more so from the standpoint of identifying opportunities. Ok, ok, other expertise besides the person well steeped in the internal revenue code, who understands the implications of charitable giving? Yeah, not really. I mean on, especially if you if if you’re partnering with one of these organizations that does work in this area donorsearch vise fun platter, they typically have a pretty pretty significant breath of expertise. They’ll have accountants. Attorneys, though, of course, have the administrative folks that manage and maintain the donor advised funds platform. Yeah, i was thinking more of the charity that has a donor that doesn’t want to go, the donor advised funds away can’t go because you can’t afford or is not just doesn’t want to do the private foundation. What sort of what infrastructure does the charity need to have in place in terms of expertise before they can start talking to donors about these non-cash gift? Well, yeah, that’s a good question. Yeah, they certainly would benefit from having on the charity side on attorney your accountant well versed in these issues because the reality is those organizations, if they’re a standard five oh one c three public charity can take these assets in his well, so they don’t have the negative tax implications that the private foundation does, so they could certainly take these assets in themselves. They have the benefits that they be ableto provide to the families that they work with, and then it really would just be a matter of them being educated enough to be able to articulate the opportunities to the families that they’re working with. And then clearly those families are going to need to be represented also correct, these are very complex a cz you’ve mentioned transactions that khun involve the internal revenue code. Very d deeply, the person’s a state plan, et cetera. All right, yeah. So particularly in these in this type of planning, we always highly, highly encourage families to really involve their advisor team because of the complexity of those issues. And, you know, even if you have, ah charity that knows the family very well because of the technical issues that arise here, you know, there may be aspects of their business minute details that you know, they’re just not going to know that their attorney accountant might know, but it could be very important to the overall planning. What’s your advice about bringing in family members, let’s assume it’s, a husband and wife couple, they’re in their seventies. What about bringing in the children in that example, but could be other family members in a different example? Yeah, i think. It’s it’s, it’s i think it’s always great to involve children, grandchildren in charitable planning and endeavours to the greatest extent possible now, interestingly, when particularly when we’re dealing with family owned businesses. There’s a lot of planning that takes place in this charitable context that also involves succession planning within the family, so we will create structures. Where somebody might give interest in their business. Oh, and then ultimately, at some point, those interests are purchased from the children or a trust for their benefit and really serve as a mechanism or a component of the families ofthe overall succession plan, and by doing that, we can leverage not only family wealth transfer but charitable benefits as well. Aren’t we also minimizing the likelihood of any kind of a challenge to the gift if we if we inform and bring in other family members, so this is not a surprise to them, it can be depending on, you know, the the owner’s involved with a particular asset or business, even if they’re not family members. You know, if a charity all of a sudden becomes a shareholder in a business that can have impact and and raise issues for other shareholders, typically they’re not significant issues. I mean, generally speaking, the charity just simply becomes an additional shareholder to the organization. A lot of times, the family business is that we’re working with maybe owned holy in the family, just mom or dad or maybe some of the kids, but particularly when you get outside of that. And you might have nonreligious shareholders. They need to be aware of those implications and don’t always have the same objectives. So sometimes planning that might work well in a family contacts might not be applicable for somebody that has a business and they own it with non family. Were non related members let’s shift focus a little bit to the my voice is cracked sixteen years old to the er with a lot of gray hair to the different types of assets. What? Aside from cash and then appreciated securities or stock? What? What do we see as the the next or the most popular type of gift outside those arenas? Yeah, well, i think if you look at the three largest asset types in terms of the wealth composition in our country, they would be marketable securities, privately owned businesses in real estate, so that’s going to comprise the vast majority of wealth in the country. But there’s also lots of other types of assets. Intellectual property, collectibles, life insurance, oil and gas interests. Individual retirement accounts, there’s a lot of different assets that can provide leverage tax benefits as opposed to giving simply in the form of cash. In fact, a lot of times tony will say that there’s a lot of families that if they give chaired, give charitably in their generous, we suggest to them that it’s possible they should never make another cash gift in their life because these other asset type gifts non-cash asset yes, generally provide leverage, benefits. And so, as opposed to just simply capturing a charitable deduction, we might be able to get not only a charitable deduction, but we might be able to avoid capital gains tax. We might be able to secure income from that asset that will be exempt from tax so there’s typically kind of double or even triple benefits that can be captured with these other non-cash assets. So the families have a lot of those assets we say hey, yousa donor advised funds and use that as a storehouse so that you’re able to use these other assets when they’re converted to cash. Then give the cash out of the donor advised funds because you’re always able to leverage typically the tax benefits in that context. Let’s, look at the intellectual property gift. What are what are concerns there, let’s? Just say hypothetically, a donor comes in. She has authored some textbooks. Let’s say she has some physical books. Maybe she has let’s say a thousand books. She wants to give the books about that. Make it a school. So there’s some use for that and then. But then also she wants to give the intellectual property rights or copyright and whatever flows from that. What? What? What? What is the charity? Start asking? Where does it begin with that? To get that conversation started? Yeah, it’s. Interesting. Because there are numerous types of intellectual property patents, copyrights, trademarks, even things that we might not typically think of as an asset, like a process or a nohow that would fall into this category. So you specifically mentioned copyrights? Copyrights are kind of an interesting thing because there’s a unique rule that says, if you actually created the copyright, you are the author. You’re not going to be able to secure a charitable deduction for that just part of the rules. Now, if i had a copyright that i purchased from somebody else and all of a sudden it’s worth a lot of money, i purr argast you know the song writes of the beatles and then it appreciated in value, and i gave that away. I could secure a full, fair market value deduction so typically in a copyright situation, whether with an author or perhaps a musician, the primary objective or benefit there is once that asset is gifted, the royalty income that is produced from that asset escapes taxation with respect to the charity completely. So think about, you know, a major author, somebody that sold a book and is literally made multiple millions of dollars from that book if they’re in a position where they say, gee, i really don’t need all this income, they could give all or a portion of the copyright to that book, and then the royalty income that is then collected would go pro radha to the charity, and all of that income would escape taxation completely. Okay. And there’s still no deduction for the author who is the creator of the work? Correct for the continuing royalties? Yes. That’s correct. There’s there’s. No additional deduction now, let’s, let’s. Shift to a patent situation. Let’s say there’s something that somebody was able to patton the rules that apply there are that upon initial gift of that. Asset, the deduction that the giver will receive will be the lesser of fair market value or basis. Okay, we hear that again said that before you now there’s a special rule, though, that says for the next ten years you may be able to secure additional charitable deductions based on the royalty income that the charity actually receives. Oh, so different fromthe copyright example, we just had exactly. Yeah, and the reason they did this, tony, was they had i guess there were some people that were giving intellectual property rights that at least theoretically had some value, so they were getting a charitable deduction, but they weren’t really generating any income or usable cash that the charity could use. So they changed the rules and said, we’re not going to give you a big deduction up front. But if it is an asset that does, in fact, produce cash and benefits, charity will allow you charitable deductions for future years based on that, that income stream that the charity receives and the structure is kind of a sliding scale. So for the first two years, whatever the royalty income was that was collected, the giver would get one. Hundred percent deduction for that. Okay, and then it go ninety percent nineteen, seventy until it fades away. Okay. Okay. And the charity? Of course, khun still continue to get the royalty income for decades. It’s just that there won’t be a deduction for the donor. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, and i think in some context, you know, you think about some of the top authors out there. I’m not sure a lot of people completely understand or know how much revenue is generated from some of these books, but like the second best selling book of all time after the bible is rick warren’s a purpose driven life or the purpose driven life that book generated over fifty million dollars in royalty income and, you know, some of the political books barack obama, sarah palin oftentimes those books generated as much as ten million dollars or more in revenue, so you could see that if somebody has somebody someone that says g i don’t i don’t need all of that. I don’t need all that tend this kind of a windfall. I never dreamed that i’d write a book in it have this windfall there’s some phenomenal opportunities to really benefit charitable organizations in an incredible way. I think you said earlier that donor could give a portion of the royalties. Correct. Is that right? Okay. Yeah. There’s an issue there that you have to be very careful about. Because there’s a roller concept referred to as the partial interest rules, which basically says, if you give just a part of an asset that you own, you’re not going to get a charitable deduction, you have to give the entire interest and that can come into play here if somebody were to say, hey, i have this patent i want to retain the patent, but i want to give to charity a royalty stream. You can’t do that and secure charitable deduction. You would have to give a portion of both the patent itself, along with the royalty income that attach is to that. But even that portion is sufficient. Yes. Yeah. Sounds to me like the portion would be partial. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s. A bit confusing. Really? Get into some technicalities here, but you’re able to give an undivided interest of the hole. So if you give a twenty percent interest in both the patent and the associate id royalty string that doesn’t run afoul of these partial interest rules, although typically we would think justin regular definitions that, well, that’s a partial interests. But for purposes of the tax code, partial interest is not defined in a way that would include that type of construction. We’re seeing a very good example of what we talked about earlier in terms of the charity being properly advised with someone who has this knowledge and expertise because to the layperson, twenty percent is partial, right? It’s. Exactly. Right. Okay, but it’s not in the internal revenue code. And so when you have that need for expertise, we have just about a minute left. Or so we got into a lot of detail about intellectual property. Uh, if someone is approached about closely held business interest, really, as i said, just about a minute. What? What do they need to do? Tow? Just continue that conversation. What are they thinking about? The threshold? Yeah. There’s. Really? Two context. Big picture context. Where opportunities air created with a closely held business interest one is, if they’re expecting a sail on the near term horizon, they would simply give a portion of that. Business before the sale occurs, and therefore, in addition to getting the charitable deduction, they would also be able to avoid or at least reduced dramatically, the capital gains tax that would otherwise apply upon sale. So that’s one context the other contacts is when there isn’t a sail on the horizon, they want to give a business interest, and it may be held for years. There are opportunities there to give relatively small interests in the business on an annual basis to maximize the annual charitable deductions. So in other words, they capture significant tax benefits but are only e-giving small interest in their business. A lot of families will do this every year. The deduction thresholds under our tax code, our extraordinarily generous all of us could give up the fifty percent of our income in the form of cash and get a deduction. And if we’re dealing with a non-cash asset, we could deduct up to thirty percent of our income, but most people come not even close to capturing those full benefits, so lots of opportunities in that context, we have to leave it there. Michael king is with the national christian foundation in alphabet a georgia michael’s. A pleasure having you as a guest. Thanks, tony. Good to be here, my privilege. We’ve been talking about giving beyond the czech launching generosity with non-cash e-giving, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning in san antonio two thousand eleven. That was my pre recorded interview with michael king, my thanks to him and the folks at the national conference on philanthropic planning. Right now, we’re going to take a break, then tony’s, take two and after that proactive prospect research with maria simple, so stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com oh! Dahna hi there. Welcome back. Time for tony’s. Take two. Always at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. So, as you heard in the first segment, i was in san antonio last week for the national conference on philanthropic planning. Recorded eighteen interviews in the two days that we were on the exhibit hall floor. There was a lot of buzz got a lot of buzz around the show and people would stop and watch the interviews. I was doing them, but i got a lot of great content for the show, and i’ll be playing those over the next coming months. Those eighteen interviews. My thanks to the conference organizers that worked out very well for for us and for the show. I think for them, i mean, and for the show and my block post this week is separate the juice from the pits. I was looking at a juicer in a restaurant here in the city a while ago, and it just got me thinking about, um, separating valuable work and necessary things that we have to do from the distractions that we can either take on ourselves or have foisted on us. And it got me. Thinking about fundraisers doing that so fundraisers, if you are engaged in things that you think are a distraction from your principal job and the things you hopefully enjoyed doing the most, which is meeting people, then take a look at those things that distracting you critically and try to get out from underneath a mme i’m thinking it might be administrative responsibilities that a boy a boss gives you that aren’t directly related to fund-raising could also be professional association, that committee work that you take on. Um, look at these things critically and see if there really supporting you in your primary job and if they’re not. If you feel like they’re keeping you away from that or distraction, try teo extricate yourself from them so that you can spend more time doing the things that you really love and that are your primary responsibility. And that is my block post this week again, the post is separate the juice from the pits, my blog’s that m p g a d v dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, october fourteenth. Very pleased now tohave back-up maria semple maria is the prospect finder you’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and she’s, the author of panning for gold hae networth prospects. Now, maria, welcome. Good to have you back. Thanks, county. Thanks for having me, it’s. A pleasure as always. S so we’re talking about proactive prospect research following up on what we talked about last month for small shops. Why is it just remind people why is it better to be proactive than just reactive? Well, if you could set aside some time in your development cycle, maybe some laws or even if you could get a disciplined is putting some time on the calendar at least once a month to do some proactive prospecting. It will continually generate a new pool of people. I guess in a sales world they would call it, you know, filling your funnel with prospects. And so if you could kind of have that mindset is always being in a mode of trying to connect with new people. It was going to help your your non-profit organization tremendously. As with any initiative, that’s knew we look to the board initial t get started. Is that right? I think that would be a good idea if you can harness your boardmember to bring to the table perhaps three new names to start on. We’re talking about people who could be potentially major gift prospects for the organisation, right and that’s, however, they define major e-giving right, exactly, and that does very greatly non-profits provoc some places that maybe a thousand dollars in other places that maybe twenty five thousand, right, exactly. Okay, so we’re asking each boardmember for two to three people is that if they can bring those names to the table and then you can research them a little bit further and then devised some sort of perhaps the cultivation event to start engaging some of these additional people for your non-profit so this is a way to involve board members in the development cycle, even if they’re not directly involved in the ask if they can at least get involved in the identification phase of the development cycle, that would be really helpful for you. Okay, wait delegating this to a specific committee on the board, or we’re asking the board at large well, again here, it depends on the size of the non-profit if you have a separate development committee, that would be great to delegate that taft to them, but if you don’t have the committee, i would involve the entire board having them understand that. You know, the goal here is to increase the major gift pool of prospect, okay? And you suggested that then there then be some kind of a follow-up event to invite new people, i presume we could ask a boardmember tau host that event or we could do something different? Yes, you could definitely have it at a boardmember home, or you could have it at your non-profit organization again here, depending on the type of non-profit you have, if you have something going on at your organization that you really want to showcase, maybe you have a stellar charter school or daycare center, so we might make sense to have more of a breakfast type event prior to the opening of the location. And then once the location is spilling over into the time slot, perhaps when the location is open so that you can then give people some guided tours through the facility and they can get a real sense of what this places like when it’s buzzing with kids, you know, so it really depends on the non-profit but it works really well to have a small, intimate gathering in a boardmember homos well and remember it’s a cultivation event, it’s not an ask event. So the ask does not happen at the event you’re there to inform latto really, you know, come across with the passion for the organization on keep it to the time slot that you have indicated to people that the event will take place when you talk to boards about this, what do you asking them to look for him? And i understand it’s ah, major give prospect. But how did they how did the board members individually try toe identify the right people. Teo, get there there two or three each? Okay, well, if they don’t personally know some people who fall into that category, they maybe only several degrees separated away from some of those people. One way would be for them to kind of be your ambassadors in helping you to continually can the newspapers, for example, of the who’s who in your community who’s getting involved in other large non-profits who is committed to perhaps some similar types of non-profits and whether they’re subscribing to the hard copy of the newspapers, or they’re assisting you by doing some targeted searches, your local libraries will have access to your local papers and a search functionality of art to search the archives and and toe look at daily copies of the newspapers online, so if they’re willing to at least get involved in that, or perhaps be willing to help you by setting up some google alert regarding where your community might be coming up named on specific pages of google websites and so forth, that might be really helpful to you in terms of trying to bring new names a light yes, so you can delegate some of what you might think you have to do you as the executive director or the development director might feel that you have to take on some of this could be delegated teo to some board members? Absolutely, especially if you have a boardmember who is really internet savvy? This would be a great task to delegate to them. This is going to be something that they’re going to be seeing feeling very comfortable about doing it’s going to be something very simple, they’ll understand what it is. You’re looking for and they will, people altum just really simply set up these types of searches for themselves and it’s going to help you in killing your prospect pipeline let’s talk a little about actually approaching the people, so now let’s, take a step back, let’s go to the board members, the people that they know personally, so not yet looking at newspapers or other publications, but the people they know personally, what do you train board members to say to the people that they want to invite to the types of events for talking about? First of all, i think that the passion and commitment for their organization must really come through, so they are ambassadors for the non-profit so their enthusiasm, their reasons for joining your organization and being committed to it and hopefully by the way committed is not only in time that money as well, so they shouldn’t be asking somebody to come to the table and learn more about the organization if they haven’t financially commited at whatever level they’re able to do for that organization so they may approach them by saying, you know what? I have this organization i’m involved with you. May have heard me talk about it. X, y. Z non-profit i’m really committed to this organization. You and i have talked in the past about how important it is to solve this specific problem in our communities. I’d love for you to come out and learn a little bit more about what we’re doing to solve this problem and see if it resonates with you, there won’t be an ass. We will not ask you for money that evening, but we’d like for you to just take some time out of your scheduled to come out and learn more, and you have to recognize to that this is often an exchange, some people we’ll invite their friends to the organizations that there supporting and then the expectation is that those friends air probably going to do the same. So as an executive director of darryl development director, you understand, understand that you’re not asking somebody to do something that isn’t that isn’t all that common, right? It’s probably already being asked of the boardmember, you know, on the other side as you just presented, so yeah, absolutely there these people are probably very accustomed to attending events that their friends have invited them to, um what about so now? Going beyond what you were starting refer to local newspapers, you might look at who other charities are cultivating and working with in those in those newspapers. Yeah, so you might if you are a a local organization. Let’s say, your your mission is health care related, but you see, or perhaps a small local community health center, it might be interesting to take a look at who some of the major donors are supporting the larger regional hospitals in the area and other health, larger health initiatives. If you have any major presence of cancer societies or association heart association, american heart association, so something like that might be useful for you as well. You can do that by prospecting the websites of those organizations or calling them for their annual report. Um, there are some sea bass resource is that do compile thiss type of information. All name two of them off the top of my head nose and see a we’ve talked about that one before knows, and then also i wave dot com has a list of donors that air captain. All this information, though, is really pulled from annual report, so if you are very localized in your mission and your geographic scope, that might be overkill, but if you’re you know, you could just contact the local non-profits directly to try and compiled some of those nameless and in just a minute or so that we have left before a break, how would the organization contact these types of people who we don’t have a relationship with what we found the ways you’re describing, best thing would be to bring those names to the light of the board members again here the ambassador is your organization. So before any direct outreach is made, see if there’s any way to get a warm introduction to any of these individuals, um and lengthen might even be a tool to help you in that regard. To find out how many degrees you may be separated from someone or see, the board is willing to run some of these names through their own lincoln accounts to see how many degrees they may be separated. So that’s a terrific tool for you to use and it’s a free tool. Your suggestion about asking boardmember xyz that’s sounds like literally you give them a list of names of potential prospects that that the organization has found and asking, what do you know them? Do you know anybody who knows them, that kind of thing, right? You’re proactively bringing names to the table that they should be littering as away. You know, how can we gain entree to these individuals? These are people who care about this particular cause in our community. Is there any way we can? What is the path to this individual? Is there any way you can help lead us there? We have to take a break. I’m talking to maria simple, the prospect finder, and after this break, we’ll continue. So stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. They get non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? 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Welcome back and we’re talking to the prospect finder maria simple, our regular prospect research contributor samaria we’ve identified these people what’s the what’s the best way to start tio reach out to them should it be the people who we don’t have close relationships with by letter or by phone call or yeah, you might want to make sure that you at least add them into your database, so they start getting invitations to upcoming events that you might be hosting. Um, if you have, uh, if you have some way reaching out to them individually again here, you know, if you’re short staffed that’s going to be very difficult to be able to do, but at the very minimum, if you can at least get maybe even an intern to help start, get gathering information and even looking up their addresses on something like a four one one dot com or switchboard dot com free directory. Also, there are directories that you can look up information related to property assessments. So of course, there you’ll be able to get the name and address of individuals who live in your specific towns. So there are some free sites to go to to get that information as well. If you’re having trouble getting address, what are what are a couple of those free from one of the areas and this is probably available in most states here in new jersey, where i’m based use website called my central jersey dot com, which is actually a compilation of several newspapers in the state, and they have a link on their website called data universe and within data universities brought together a bunch of different public records. Database is one of them have to do with property records, so that is a really neat way to get into the property. Record databases it’s really easy to search you. You start with the county and then focus it down by town. And then you can either input the name of the street or in put the name of an individual auntie where their addresses in that specific town so that’s a free resource for you to be able to use it sounds like this prospect review work is something that’s ongoing. We don’t just do it once a year or something, right? I would recommend that they that they do it on going. As well on dh, you know, want one area that i did want to focus on today as well. Tony is not to overlook the successful business owners in the community, and here there are some very easy ways to be able to track what’s going on with successful businesses. And unfortunately, the press these days seems to really focus so much on the negative. How much is not going well in in thie economy to business markets, etcetera. But there are some companies that are doing okay, so if you are able to track and get subscriptions to or at least access daily online, the business publication that covers your state here in new jersey, it’s uh, nj biz new york city has crane’s new york. So whatever that business publication is that covers your state subscribed to it, and i even get daily alert from nj dot com that pushes information out to me on a daily basis of what’s going on. You need to get into a mindset of keeping up with what’s going on in the community. I don’t know how many of your listeners have read the millionaire next store, but a lot of the people that are profiled in that book are successful, self made business owners. So for those of you who have non-profit boards that really want to focus on let’s, just reach out to the big local corporations in the area. I’m not saying don’t do that, but it might be just as easy or easier to focus on where are the overlooked, successful business owners that are in businesses that are not getting a lot of press but yet are very successful. So the millionaire next store is really great for helping you identify what some of those businesses might look like. Um, also, publications such as nj biz will compile annually what they call their book of list and again all the business major business publications do this. This book of lists will profile for you, say, the top fifty accounting firms engineering firms. You know all these different sectors and gives you contact information. Full contact info who’s. Running the company, etcetera. There is very little distinction between who’s running the company. You know, the business owner on these private businesses and the business themselves. So your approach might either be to the business or to the individual. But either way, you’re really getting to the same person you mentioned the alerts that nj biz offers and you’ve mentioned earlier today and another times to the google alerts. I mean, these are all great free resource is that used to be what we would call clipping services, right? Absolutely, absolutely, i have free alert set up through google, so that information is pushed to me on a daily basis. So for example, i’m really interested in keeping up with what is going on in the prospect, a research arena. I’m also very interested in knowing what’s going on in the high network arena, so i actually have google alerts set up on the phrase prospect research on the phrase hi network, google goes out daily minds the internet for where those phrases are mentioned on websites or blog’s or news articles, etcetera magazines pushes the links to me, and then i can peruse them very quickly and determine which ones of those are very interesting for me to take a look at more and more in depth, so again, it it enables you to put something on autopilot whenever you have that chance to do that, please do. It just in the minute or so that we have left before we have to wrap up. There are ways of looking for family foundations that may be local to the community also, right? Right? Absolutely. So there are free resources and fi based resources to be able to do this. You can do it through your local foundation center. Cooperating collection. You’ll have the database available there. Ah, foundation search dot com is a sea bass to resource for you to be able to do this as well. And guide star guidestar dot org’s. So if you have your own non-profit listed with guide star, you could have access to their premium level of searching for free. Actually, if you help to maintain your own non-profits dahna status and presence on guide star so it has a double benefit there. So there are definitely some ways for you to start prospecting for family foundations, the’s air people taking philanthropy to another level on i highly recommend that you consider looking at this pool of individuals. Well, maria semple is our regular prospect research contributor. You will find her at the prospect finder dot com she’s also the author of panning for gold find high net worth prospects now she’ll be with us again next month. Maria, thank you very much. Thank you again for having me, tony. Always upleaf. Thank you. You always a pleasure. Bye. Now. I want to thank maria semple. And also thank michael king and the folks at national conference on philanthropic planning for all their accommodations when we were on the exhibit floor at their conference in san antonio last week. Next week. So you want to be a consultant guest, hank goldstein and i talked about the ins and outs the ups and downs of making a career move to non-profit consultant. And we’ll have jonah helper and ari team in in the studio with me to talk about next year’s or this year’s. Sorry. This year’s next-gen charity conference it’s next month in november. There the conference co founders and this show is a media sponsor for the conference. Keep up with what’s coming up for pete’s sake. Please sign a province. Cider email alerts go to the facebook page. You know where to find facebook, then just searched the name of this show. 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Tony’s guests for today’s debut podcast:
Steve Imperato, president of Future Funds
Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News
Michael Davidson, consultant and board coach
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com
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