Tony’s guests this week:
Rich Foss, consultant and author of “Greenlight Fundraising”
Gene Takagi & Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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Hello and welcome to the show, it’s tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, how i hope you were that you were with me last week. That’s all i just hope you were here. We had grow grassroots michael o’brien, founder and principal of mob advocacy. He knows how to bring people to your cause with grassroots advocacy. How do you activate people? What are grass tops? We talked about that and how do you engage those people? Where do you go to meet potential coalition partners and what’s the added value for your work around grassroots advocacy and divine devices, desktops, laptops, tablets and handhelds? Scott koegler had tips for picking the right device to fit your budget, your work style and personality. You know him? He’s, the editor of non-profit technology news and our monthly tech contributor. Of course, this week, campaign volunteers rich foss he’s, the author of green light fund-raising we, he and i are going to talk about the importance of volunteer leadership in your campaign, how to recruit your chair and lead donor and the other volunteers you need in place and what their jobs are and has lots of descriptions and other resources that will go up on linkedin and facebook after the show today and fiscal sponsorships. Our legal team jean takagi and emily chan from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group make sense of this complicated relationship. What it is, why your office might become a sponsor or sponsoring and what that looks like and how to get started between the guests on tony’s take two big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent you’ve heard that already. Today my block this week is to encourage you to listen to the show and since that’s a paradox, i’ll have some other things to talk about other ways to connect on tony’s take two here’s the first one, of course hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter right now, we take a break, and when we return it’s campaign volunteers on rich fost will join me. I hope you stay here co-branding think dick tooting getting dink dink, dink dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Thank you. You could join the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city in pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve, save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot or or a nj dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna welcome back, live listener love going out new bern, north carolina? Oh, how i miss north carolina haven’t been there for a few months, but i will be there soon september welcome new bern and we’ve got more live listener love as the show goes on right now, my guest is rich fuss he’s, the author of green light fund-raising your sustainable fund-raising guide to raising fifty thousand to five hundred thousand dollars a year to light up the eyes of people you serve and your donor’s hope the book is shorter than its title. Rich he’s been in fund-raising over twenty nine years as both staff and a consultant he’s with me from rural illinois, where he’s, the leader of a mennonite community rich fast welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. I’m really glad to be here today. It’s my pleasure to have you, uh, we’re talking about campaign volunteers. What what’s the role of volunteers in a campaign about in my career, i worked with community non-profits and usually there’s only one or two development staff, and so i really wanted to develop a system that could be a multiplier for for staff and also that could really use the gold standard of fund-raising, which is, is. You raise a lot more money when you sit down face to face with somebody and describe the organization and ask them for a gift. Face-to-face and so, basically, i developed this system where you recruit volunteers and have them sit down with face-to-face with people and ask forgiveness for your non-profit and, uh, uh, not promise that have developed our have a doubt that it it’s been very special for them. Now we have a drug in jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio, and i hate to do it to you in this very first segment. But you said volunteers are our multipliers for for the charity? What? Why do you what does that mean? Basically, what it means is that that a development director, even if they go out and ask forgiveness, face-to-face, uh, can only meet with so many people each week or each year, and if you have aa group of passionate volunteers, uh, bacon meet with her a lot more people in a much shorter period of time and, uh, that’s why i call it a multiplier, okay, so early parole from jog in jail, but what your step you don’t you don’t want a second offense while you’re on parole. The let’s see, i’ve heard that it’s really? I mean, volunteers and i’ve had guests say this volunteers are the leaders of the campaign. Is that do you? Do you believe that over rather than the staff of the charity? Uh, definitely definitely. And that’s why? In setting up the system, the very first step is to recruit the campaign chair person who you want to have a very influential person in your community be the campaign chair person because their leadership will influence a lot of other people to, uh, to join your campaign. And so that that leadership role is extremely important. Okay? And we’re gonna have some time to talk about how to recruit that campaign chair is as well as some other volunteers, but what’s the role of the charity’s staff in all this. Then if the if the campaign is being led by volunteers, well, basically, i describe it. The role of the the, uh, campaign staff is particularly development staff. He used to run the system. Sometimes i like in these campaigns like an ipad. The ipad spring is very simple. And yet behind it, there’s a whole lot of details. Well, what you want to do in these campaigns is to create the systems and the details in such a way that it’s very easy for the the er staff are executing the volunteers to do their work, and so that requires a lot of work, a lot of organizational detail, a lot of of of work on the part of the development. Okay, now you’ve been doing this for nearly thirty years, so you can’t always have been like getting this toe ipad. What you used to look like in tow the old pong game or what? What did you used to liking it, too? Twenty nine years ago. Oh, okay, well, i didn’t have any metaphors until i was the brother typewriter. When you push the half space key. What i love just love about those type, you know? You know there’s? No, they didn’t used to be an exclamation mark on typewriters. I’m sure you remember that, right? Right. Had you had to do a period and then a back space and then a apostrophe to get an exclamation mark and that’s my theories. Why they’re overused now because there is an exclamation keith but that’s a little bit of a digression. I suppose. We have just a couple minutes before we take a break let’s from so so the so the staff is doing the systems. I mean, they’re they’re basically they’re supporting the volunteer leadership then is that is that? I have that right. Okay, okay. Now, before we could do the campaign chair, your advice is that there be a pre campaign committee. I don’t want to spend too much time on that, but just like a minute and a half before a break, tell us about the pre campaign committee, okay? Basically, you know, a lot of community non-profits their boards don’t get formed based on fund-raising. And so when i developed the system, i decided that we needed to have a group that was focused right on fund-raising and so generally what you do in the pre campaign committee, you get together, the executive director, maybe past boardmember the current board members, people who are influential, the most influential people in your community that are connected to your organization form that that, uh, campaign committee, because basically it takes influential people to recruit influential people, and so that prepaid campaign campaign committee gets together and identifies, okay, who are? The the top five people that could serve that in our community, that could serve in that role of campaign chairperson. Of course, if you put it, if you put dick cheney on your pre campaign committee, then he’s going to want to be campaign chair. Well, if you’re lucky, there might be somebody on your on your your pre campaign committee who could serve his chair. But especially in the first year, you want to go after the absolutely best person in your community, because that’s going to make your campaign sustainable because you want to do this every year, okay, which way a person. First, it works much better the next year. Okay, we’re going to take a break. We’ll come back and talk more about the campaign pre-tax paint committee leading into the campaign chair. Stay with us, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect, no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what you’re born, teo you society, politics, business and family. It’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven, new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower, radio, dot com for every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back. We’ve got more live listener love going out to massachusetts, spencer, massachusetts and no handup massachusetts, welcome to the broadcast with rich foster. We’re talking about fiscal sorry we’re talking about campaign volunteers, which fast, you probably want to talk about fiscal sponsorship, do you? I don’t care. You have expertise. Yeah, i don’t even particularly. I’m not looking forward to it, but we are going to want to talk about campaign volunteers on dh were in our pre campaign committee. So the this group of community leaders is assembled to to choose the people who would be good prospects for the campaign chair. Correct. Okay. And you did say if the pre campaign committee should include the the executive director of the charity? Correct. All right. Is that really the only should that be the only staff person employee of the charity? You’re often the development director will also be a part of it. Okay? And then other people who are prominent in the campaign co-branded community in there, in the community. Okay, so what’s their what’s, their process this as they as they narrowed down the prospects that they move toward asking somebody, uh, basically what? They do is the first thing they do is identify probably five people, possible people and then rank them. And basically, i suggest this because, uh, i learned from my mistakes the very first campaign that i was involved with. We we identified the next best person asked that person and they said no, and that happened four times. Yeah, so that’s. A lot of disappointment for a committee of mostly volunteers. That’s, right, that’s, right. Very disconcerting and out. The fifth person said yes and ended up to be a very a very good campaign chair person. So what was the lesson lesson from that? Yes, i learned from that identified five people right away. Rank them and that way, if you if somebody says no, you don’t have to push the panic button. Okay, your committee of volunteers is not disillusioned. That’s, right? They got others to go to. Ok, it’s right on. You have some pretty specific advice about about this process and even the meeting with with the candidates. Yeah, yeah. The the recruiting of volunteers is really, really serious business tonight i have a son who played division one basketball in fact, colgate university and so i got to see first hand the basketball recruiting process, and one of those guys are highly organized, and the same charities have to do the same thing. I have to plan things out very carefully and basically, you have to identify, okay, who’s going to on this pre campaigning committee, who’s the best person to invite the person to a breakfast or lunch where they can be approach who’s the best person to ask them to be the campaign chairperson and in the there’s, a lot of details that you and i have planned out, and you’re doing this for each of your five candidates. Yes, well, you do it for the first one and and then, you know, if you have to go to the second one, you do it, but all planned. I mean, do you even recommend people sort of role, role playing or any kind of mock mock meetings? Teo, talk about you’re going to say this and she’s going to say that, etcetera, i don’t know if you need to do the role playing, but you need to identify who was going to say what you know, so that that, uh, like the reason you involve the executive director is you need to have someone who could describe the non-profit and also who can tell a powerful story about the work of a non-profit and, uh, so you basically need to figure out the roles before you before you set up the meeting, okay? Okay. And at what point should you share the the sort of job description of the campaign chair with the with the prospect? Well, i, uh i would do it verbally during during the meeting and then, uh, attended the meeting just give them the job description, ok? You don’t want to read it during them during the meeting, but you want them to have something to refer to when they’re when they’re considering it. Rich has a model job description for the campaign chair and lots of other helpful resource is we’re going to mention a couple of them, but you’ll find, ah, whole list of them around this topic of campaign volunteers on my on linked in group for the show and also on the show’s facebook page after after the show, those will be posted and rich, who lets see who i should be the person to actually make the ask at the meeting is that should not be the person who’s the the closest to them. Or should it be the executive director? Or how do you decide who actually says we invite you to be our campaign chair? You basically need to ask who is the most influential person in terms of who’s who provoc perspective, campaign chair, person who’s? Who are they most likely say yes to ok. And that’s also the campaign pre campaign committee simply asked that question and hash is without among them and that’s, the person you asked, okay? And around a giving a gift expectation for the campaign chair. Certainly the person’s going to need a campaign they have to give. Correct. What do you like to see in terms of asking what? Telling them what they’re what the charities expectation is around that in an ideal world, they would give the elite gift. Uh, but way lived in an ideal world. You’d be on a much better. Show them this way. So we know that that’s out. Okay, i would be much more fluid. Uh, so you more support thing is influence not with e-giving ability of course you want them to give you want. You prefer to get them to give a major gift they clearly have to give, but they may not be able to give at the league gift level. Okay, uh, but their primary role is to be the chief influence in the campaign. So if they’re involved, you want everyone to say, wow, this is this is an important bilich event or important campaign in our community because this person i see ok, and also they become the person that it’s hard for other people to say no to write that’s, right? Because right, because they’re going to be responsible for recruiting other volunteers and asking people for gift. So say little about that, okay, the, um the campaign chair person will be responsible for recruiting the division chairs and that’s going to vary from community community, uh, in a larger city, you might do it by, you know, geography or, you know, a suburb or by industry that’s sort of part of the planning process. But whatever divisions you come up with, there needs to be a chairperson for that debate division. And, uh, you want your campaign chair person to recruit, recruit them. Okay, right. And you want to make that somebody that it’s hard to say no to that, right? Okay, so let’s spend a little time. By the way, just listeners were talking to rich boss he’s, the author of green light fund-raising we’re talking about the use of volunteers in your campaign rich why don’t you tell people where they can find your book? Green light fund-raising that or okay, green light fund-raising dot org’s let’s talk now, since you’re starting to lead us there. But you’re not taking over the show, which for some some guests get a little presumptuous. Take over the show. You’re not taking over the show. Appreciate it. I’ll follow your lead. You’re in trouble going off a cliff. Thie let’s talk you started brought into a bigger staff of volunteers. What should that? What? It’s? A little more. Besides the division heads. What should this broader volunteer kadre look like? Okay? One of one of the things that the development director needs to do is to develop a gift charges and the gift chart basically says what level of gifts need to be asked for and received in order to achieve. The goal, and then there are are once you have that, you can identify the number of volunteers you do, and i won’t go into all the process. But basically for every gift you need, you need three prospects. Right? Okay. And you want your volunteers to, uh, ask five people for gift. So this is hyre mathematics now. Okay, it’s. Just a matter of each volunteer. No, it’s hyre math for me anyway, so every volunteer as to ask five people that’s, right? Ok. That’s, right. And so well, you can figure based on your gift chart, you can figure out what you need to talk to so many prospects. And are you okay? Tio, meet your goal and you divide that by five. And then, you know, you’re a number of volunteers, okay? And that’s another one of the resource is that we have is that is not in the list of raving. Okay, there’s there’s a, uh an excel spreadsheet that has, ah, gift shark in it. And it also includes the breakdown of volunteers. Okay, excellent. And again, you’ll find those on the linked in group for the show and also the facebook page and then those air links back to teo richie site um, now we like to see volunteers recruiting their own teams isn’t isn’t that right? Yes, rather than having them posed by the staff that’s, right? It’s basically, because, you know, this is all volunteers doing it. They’re going to have to the leaders of the team leaders we’re gonna have to yeah, you know, do some gentle pushing to get things done, and they’re going to be able to do that much better with people that they know their friends. And so you want them, you want to strongly encourage them to recruit people that they know it, and, like and trust that the charity is putting a lot of faith and trust and like into it’s volunteers? I mean, there really are e-giving a lot of responsibility to this to this volunteer. Kadre yeah, yeah, and so, you know, one of the one of the the important roles, but particularly the development director does is is built strong relationships with the campaign leaders so that the campaign league leaders know that they’re going to have the support of the staff, and it really gives them confidence in their work and that kind of flows through the whole campaign. Okay, just the important point that this really is a ah delegation to the volunteers it is it is, yeah, yeah, and part of what happens is that, you know, i emphasized over and over again is you have to tell the stories of your non-profit because these dramatic stories of either wives transformed or also of, uh, the needs of non-profits mitnick is meeting really energizes the volunteers and gives them really meaning and purpose and what they’re doing way have a segment on the next show. My guest is rochelle shoretz and she’s going to talk a lot about storytelling in rain in the second half of next week’s show. Great, because i would really encourage people will listen to that or has, uh, stories are just absolutely essential when working with volunteers, which what is it that you love about? Fund-raising it seems, lives transformed, you know, the i’ve had so many people, you know, talk to me over the years and say things like, man, i can’t do that, you know, that’s begging for me, it’s not begging, you know, i tell people, you know, a panhandler bag. A fundraiser transforms lives. Yes. Give us a story. Give tell a little story about some some life that you’ve seen transformed our lives. Yeah, i was actually influenced in developing this model by doing a capital campaign. And, uh, when i did this capital campaign, i was working for an organization that provides services to people of developmental disabilities. And, um, there were about seventy people that we had living in a nursing home, and we wanted to shut that nursing home down and make it possible for them to live in a small group, homes. And there was one guy, particularly, uh, and, uh, i want to give his name, but i would talk to him. And any time this topic came about pizza, you know me. I like peace and quiet. And he was living in an extremely noisy nursing home, you know? And, uh, i remember we did this campaign. You know, it was a tremendous dahna taking for the organization never dahna campaign before raising one point, two million dollars dahna, uh, community of, you know, seven thousand people. And i went and visited him in his new home. And that was so moving you. Know to see him, you know, getting the peace and quiet and he’s long he probably living this nursing home for twenty years or so, you know, and see his life. How has changed? It was just amazing just by having a quiet environment very touching. Yeah, rich, we have just a minute left. I’m going to hold you to that. But can you tell us what? What lesson? What a lesson that we might all take from the mennonite community around fund-raising of the mineral rights. Uh, not only do fund-raising but they’re also very action oriented. One of their one of our services called mennonite disaster surface and so many knights from all over the u s will go to places where tornadoes go through hurricanes and they’ll clean up. No, they were down in in er not bad. Duitz of louisiana, new orleans, new orleans yeah, you know, helping clean green. And i remember hearing the stories of, you know, incredible work that they did buy the good friend who is on their way. I have to stop their rich shirt rich boss is joining us from rural illinois where he’s, the leader of a mennonite community. He’s, the author of green light, fund-raising, which you’ll find at green light fund-raising dot org’s rich. Thank you so much for being on. Yeah, thankyou. Tony, i really appreciate being here. It’s been my pleasure. Thank you. Now we take a break, and when we return it’s tony’s, take two little more live listener love and then gene and emily on fiscal sponsorships. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot order or a nj dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. I’m ken berger of charity navigator. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back, we got live listener love going out to laurel, maryland and also malaysia. I don’t know which city in malaysia, but laurel, maryland, malaysia welcome tony’s take to my block this week encourages people to listen to the show you are obviously already past that, so i have the advanced course for you. I want you to know that i continue the conversation from the show in the linked in group last week, i had a follow up question for michael o’brien about civil disobedience, which we didn’t get a chance to talk to talk about in his conversation around grassroots organizing, and this week, as i mentioned, the templates and other resource is from rich foss will be in that linked in group. They’ll also be on the facebook page, so next time you’re on linked in, please check out our group and join also twitter no there’s me and the hashtag, and you can follow me on twitter the hashtag of courses non-profit radio if you want to know who the guests are going to be each week, i send email alerts every thursday on the facebook page. My voice just broke thursday like i’m twelve again, um and you can sign up for those email alerts. I just said that on the facebook page and then you’ll know in advance for the guests are maybe you don’t care. I understand you may just be subscribing and you don’t really care who’s going to be on because you know that the guests are all going to be smart and that the host is in question, but you can always count on good guest. Um, i also won four square. If you want to connect with me on four square, i’ll see where you are in the world and you can see where i hang out. Check me out on foursquare and that is the end of tony’s take two for friday, august twenty fourth, the thirty sixth show of the year we have jean takagi and emily chan gene is the principle of neo, the non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com and he’s g tak g ta k on twitter. Emily chan is an attorney at neo-sage she’s, principal contributor to the non-profit law blogged, and she is the american bar association’s two thousand twelve outstanding young non-profit lawyer i don’t know why she’s still on the show. I’m sure she can have certain you could do better than this. Now that you have that appellation, you can follow emily chan on twitter she’s at emily chan, jean and emily welcome back. Hi, tony. Tony. Hello, emily. You’re still on that. You’re still coming on the show. Thank you for that. Everything about you for having me even if you got the prestigious award. Um, let’s. See, we’re talking about fiscal sponsorships. If there was ever if you ever needed evidence that the contributors choose the topics, this would be it fiscal sponsorships. A little little technical, but i’m willing to go into it. What is jean a fiscal sponsorship? Well, i’m gonna try to get a dog in jail. Yeah. Good luck. Were already there. Fiscal sponsorship let’s define this before out and its most common form. It’s. Really a way to start a non-profit project without creating a whole new nonprofit organizations. So basically, what happens? You’ve got a charitable project or an idea that you want to implement. You bring it to a charity willing to serve as the fiscal sponsor on who’s willing to operate that program within the organization so it becomes a negro part of that organization. And you reserve the right by contact. Be able to move the project to another physical sponsor if things don’t work out or you could even move it into your own nonprofit organization that you form once you know that the project is viable. That’s great. Thank you. Okay, you cut out a little bit. There is great incubator, i believe, is what you said, right? That’s okay, so we have the sponsor. Is it the sponsor? And the sponsoring? Is that how we should be referring to these two? Mostly referred to them as a sponsor and the proud sponsor and project. Okay, all right. We’ll keep our terms straight. Okay? And could gene could the could the project be another charity or that that’s? Not that’s, not how it works. Well, the like a smaller charity could be a smaller another charity don’t have to apply for tax exemption. Just actually running a program that you’ve introduced to another charity. And so you’re kind of head of that program. But the program is owned by the other to charity with the caveat that you, khun, take that program and bring it to another charity if the relationship sours in some way. Okay, okay, now, emily, i’m going to guess we would we would only want as a sponsor of our project. Oh, and established charity. Yes, picking the right physical sponsor is a huge part of getting the advantages of a physical sponsorship relationship, as jeanne mentioned. You know, they have a lot of control over the project. They take on a lot of responsibility generally with, like the admin and all the back office things, and they’re also managing the funds that would help fund your project that you definitely want to pick someone or excuse me of charity that has a good reputation in the community has some experience, possibly with physical sponsorship already. So they have the process is in place and one that aligned well with the mission. Otherwise you’re going to run into a certain problems. Sure. Well, and i would imagine a charity wouldn’t wouldn’t take you as a project if there wasn’t mission alignment, hopefully not. And that is a big part for the physical sponsor to be sure that they understand why. They’re taking on certain projects. Sometimes, you know, you’re so eager to want to help a charitable project that you do start to go outside of your own mission without, you know, taking care of your organization. Emerge. That’s risky. Mission creep. Mission creep. Okay, now what? Um what should a charity be looking? Oh, no, wait. I want to want to ask you, emily, you mentioned that the sponsor manages the money, so the money doesn’t belong to the project. It belongs to the sponsor. That’s correct. So entertainment in the typically a project that doesn’t already have tax exempt status, would it really make sense in that situation? So essentially, the physical sponsor is taking in money for the charitable purposes of the project, but that sinful sponsor, in order to not essentially acted like a conduit or to collapse and basically give money teo, non exempt entity. They have to have discretion and control over the funds. So there’s a certain level of oversight that the physical sponsors should be exercising with the project to make sure that it’s no operating properly, that the money being used the right way and that at every juncture, essentially when it does. You use the money to fund a project that is making that decision as opposed to just letting it pass through. Okay. And when you refer to the non exempt entity that’s, the that’s, the project. Right. Okay. Okay, let’s, stay with you, emily. So what’s the advantage for an existing charity cause our clients. Sorry. Our listeners are our charities mostly. And when you guys were first on the very first show that you two were on, we talked about alternatives to creating a new five. Oh, one c three charity. And we just barely touched on this subject. S o we have we have talked about altum other alternatives to creating a charity, but what’s the advantage to an established charity. Emily tbe a fiscal sponsor of projects for the fiscal sponsor it’s really about furthering that sponsored mission. So again, we talked about mission alignment. If you find projects that further, you know, the charitable purpose of your organization, not a huge benefit for the physical sponsor. Additionally, they do take generally a cut of the funds to take care of that back office stuff. I mean, they’re taken care of let’s. Say, you know payroll, you know, their insurance, maybe covering the project. All of these things take some money as well. It’s not really a money maker again. It really should be about furthering the mission. The charitable mission of the existing sponsor. But they do take some money generally in order to cover their cost. Ok. So now, gene, i assume we can just look to the internal revenue code and that will lay out these fiscal sponsorship responsibilities and relationships. Actually, no tony physical sponsor ship is not defined in any laws. I don’t think any state laws and definitely not in the internal revenue code so it’s all about the contract. So we want to make sure that you’re working with an established sponsor who can establish the right contacts to comply under the regular five a onesie, three rules. Holy cow. All right. So eyes. So there must be things that are supposed to be in these contracts. And again, were you know, our listeners are are the charities. So if somebody’s going to take this on this fiscal sponsorship because they do see mission alignment and the things that emily described? What what’s your advice around creating this? Contract if there’s there’s no statutes governing this relationship well, this may sound a little funny, but you’ve got to talk to the lawyers think this arrangement for the does that lawyer have to be the outstanding young lawyer of twenty twelve from the american bar association? You can’t go wrong with that, right? That’s what you absolutely cannot just outstanding and it’s in the title, so we know, but in case you don’t happen to have access to emily, although through the internet there’s no reason anybody shouldn’t be hiring emily, but you’re right, so you definitely this is definitely a legal relationship, and you need a lawyer drafting this contract, right? And to understand your responsibilities as a sponsor, there’s a great book out there from a no attorney colleague of ours, greg colvin called physical sponsorship six ways to do it right. And there’s, a organization called the national network of fiscal sponsors that publishes guidelines for fiscal sponsors and their best practices, including what they put into a physical sponsorship, agreements and policies. Those are definitely things that wanted checked out. Okay, and how does your friend, your colleague, spell his last name? Greg coben, ceo b i n okay. The guru of fiscal okay. Six ways to do it right. But there’s probably dozens of scores of ways to do it wrong. I’m sure in fact we actually put out a block both staying six days to do it wrong. So they definitely are. Did you? Okay, let sze not a copyright infringement. Wait, you do intellectual property work over there in the non-profit exempt organizations law group, not it out you don’t that’s. Very convenient. Okay, so it could very well be a copyright infringement. No, i’m sure it’s not a lawyer now. It’s fair. You some sure or something? I don’t know who does. Okay, so, emily let’s go into a little detail about structures around this sponsor project relationship and just we have about two minutes before first break. So what? What does it look like? Yeah, the structures, there’s models? Yes, there are. There are a handful model that actually comes out of that book that great colden. I wrote that gene mentioned the most popular one is the one that we we’ve been discussing. Model a also called the comprehensive or excuse me. Comprehensive physicals, sponsorship or direct project and it’s, when the charity basically houses the project, okay, in terms of all the management and the insurance and all that, all those things that you laid out, right, so it would be just like any other program it’s operating. Except for that caveat that is a relationship to find my contract. And there is a contemplation that the project may leave at some point. Ok, i don’t model a not a very clever name. I mean, i thought great could come up with something better than model a, but we’ll work with it. He’s the he’s, the guru. So we’ll work within his his, uh, sort of lacklustre. Um, his his, uh what i want to call this this is the, uh uh, i can’t think of the word i’ll think of it later. Okay, um and so all these things that you talked about before these all have to be in the contract, right? In terms of management responsibilities and insurance and oversight and all this it should be. And again, it just helps to lay out exactly what this relationship is going to look like because of the fact that it’s defined by the contract, i mean any pickles sponsorship could look a little different from another one. That is important to contemplate as much as possible at the outset as opposed to finding those problems. When you start trying to do this, ok. And the one that interested me, that gene mentioned a couple times is the right to leave the, uh, leave the, uh the the sponsor. Yeah. So that’s, very important for both the project on the sponsor to understand what terms and conditions might apply for that. So in some cases, maybe this sponsor is going to require that the project finds another five oh, one c three entity to house it. Maybe they’re willing, teo, do some other kind of due diligence to grant those funds that they held for those charitable purposes to the project. These are all things that you really want to think about beforehand. Ok, ok. Rubric. That was the word i was looking for. Model a is a rubric. This all falls under the rubric of model a i do. It was the board would come to me rubric. Of course, we’re going to take a break. And when we return, gene and emily stay with me. And we continue talking about fiscal sponsorships. That’s, another rubric. Com. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop, second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it, aspire, athletic, insulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back. We’re talking. Toa jean takagi and emily chan are regular legal contributors about fiscal sponsorship. I want to send live listener love out to little wet british columbia, canada, and i apologize if from mispronouncing it, if it’s in the way or something different than i just said it, i apologize. We got last week, we had ontario in ottawa, where’s, where’s, saskatchewan. Why is saskatchewan in manitoba? Never checked in alberta? Never checked in. We need to get these provinces listening live gene let’s, turn to you and see what else we might flush out about other models around fiscal sponsorship. So since we have the very rich model, eh, there must be a model b. There are the model ate a model at the rubric. Okay, rubrics, the lackluster rubrics. I’m sorry. I’m sorry for your colleague. I’ll stop calling them lackluster. So okay, what does model be matter or or his model? See better than be? Or how does this work? Well, model is by far the most common form. Okay? I was believed to be that in, like, eighty to ninety percent of the cases. The next biggest is model b, which is called a preapproved brandt relationship models this is you cut out a little bit there. This is model season charlie model using bravo baizman bravo is not as popular as sees charlie that’s. Right? So shouldn’t see bebe. It kind of flows from the structure of the i don’t know if we can recommend this book anymore. No obstacle. Ok, tell us about model charlie model charlie is the way that an existing non-profit that still doesn’t have tax exempt status, perhaps it’s a fight to the irs but hasn’t received determination yet. Khun starts to get fun now. The sponsor can act as an intermediary if you will receiving grants intended for the project, but foundations aren’t willing to. That project until it has its own five. Oh, one team status. So it gives it to the fiscal sponsor. The fiscal sponsor re granted to the project. But it has to use its own expression and control in order to make that re grant. The foundation’s put the onus on the fiscal sponsor to do all the due diligence. Okay, emily, how does this differ from model a alfa? I’m in a lot of ways, actually. So going back to model a it’s, the project is not its own entity. It’s really? Just a program, essentially that’s being operated by the fiscal sponsors. So all the employees, all the volunteers, all the liability, it’ll sit with the physical sponsor model. See, you have more separation. So he mentioned that its own entity now the project. Maybe. You know, it’s, just the taxable corporation. It might be in its period right now. Where? It’s, waiting for its five twenty three determination. So a lot of more of the liability from that program that it’s running a charitable project with the entity. The other entity, not the physical sponsor. Okay, so this is it. Shifting the responsibility is different. That’s how? It’s different than a okay, emily, what are some examples of fiscal sponsors like could could’ve come? It is a community foundation of fiscal sponsor or could it be? It could be they’re really as there is no riel limitation on who could be or what type of entity could be a physical sponsor. Generally speaking, you see it more calmly and just five a onesie three entities, because they’re able to get those contributions that can offer a tax deduction to individuals as well as bring in some private foundation grant. So you see it a lot with five eleven three entities, but as far as the mission of those entities or what it is that they’re doing this there’s no limitation on that, okay? And just we have just a minute left. Emily, where do we usually see this conversation begin? Does it does it start with the ceo of the of the sponsor thinking about bringing in projects or just started the board level where i think it actually starts with the project approaching on today’s out there that either have already decided to do it? But i think most commonly, it might start with the project. That is looking for a physical sponsor. Gene could shed somewhere like him and he actually sits on the board of community initiative, which is a physical. Okay, jean, we have just thirty seconds. Do you want to shed some light as emily cast it upon you? Sure, there’s a website called fiscal sponsored directory dot org’s, which is a good place to find a physical sponsor in your area or in your eyes. Area service. So that’s a good face to go to community foundations often engage in sponsorships and sometimes there sponsoring a project that our collaboration amongst many existing non-profit organization okay, we have to leave. I’m sorry, we have to leave it there. But that website again was fiscal sponsored directory dot org’s jean takagi. Principle of neo non-profit exempt organizations law group emily chan and attorney at neo-sage even emily, thank you very much. It’s. Always a pleasure will talk to you next month. And also, of course, want to thank rich fast for being on the show next week. We’re pre recorded because i’ll be on vacation in beautiful block island, rhode island next week. We’ll have. I had a great interview, but i didn’t get the job suzanne felder was with me at fund-raising day this past june. She’s, a consultant in outplacement for lee hecht harrison and she has advice around job search. Then, as i mentioned earlier storytelling with rochelle shoretz, founder and executive director of shark charette, they have built a culture of compassionate storytelling to help their members through their cancer diagnoses and treatments. Rochelle will have really valuable ideas on helping your charity create stories and who’s best to tell them, and she has her own touching story as a two time breast cancer survivor. Come, i want to shut out one more live listener love right here in the studio, indianapolis, indiana in the studio actually, carmel, indiana, to be exact live listener love in the studio, you know that i host a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy? Did you know that? Did you know i do it’s fund-raising fundamentals? That one is a ten minute monthly podcast and it’s on ly devoted to fund-raising topics i have a summer siri’s going on on grantspace eking the latest is building relationship with foundation program officers, and the first two were researching foundations and writing winning proposals. It’s called fund-raising fundamentals you’ll find on the chronicle of philanthropy website. You’ll also find it on itunes, continuing to wish you good luck. The way performers do around the world last week was chalk us, which means chicken in australia, in slang australian do you remember why they say chicken? You’re gonna have to go back and listen, i don’t have time to tell you today from spain monisha merida, a lot of ship, it comes from the success of a play. People would arrive at shows by carriage and what pulls a carriage, horses and what their horses leave behind shit. So the more of that you have, the better your show is. So i wish you much mierda for the week. Our creative producers claire meyerhoff, with this kind of content it’s hard to believe we have a creative producer, actually. But there is actually is one but she’s not responsible for these language lessons and this performing that comes from janice taylor. So i want to thank janice taylor. Sam liebowitz is today’s line producer shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, how i hope you will be with me next week. One, two, two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Durney dahna. I think a good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get anything. Cubine hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks. Been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Buy-in you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. 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