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Welcome to the show, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio. I’m your aptly named host, tony martignetti were always about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent last week, i hope you recall it was legislative lookout and apprehensive with federal lobbyist perry wasserman, managing director of five o one see strategies we looked at what congress is debating that hits home for you, like the charitable deduction, maybe being at risk and what’s the fate of the ira charitable roll over. Also, i had scott koegler our regular tech contributor, he explained what it means to take the plunge and develop a smartphone app for your non-profit this week, back off his blunders and i’m looking, my guest will be jeff marston he’s, the president of resource centers for management, and jeff is going to explain how to stop squandering money on your back office costs and reveal tricks to save big on supplies, phone, energy desks and other stuff that your office needs. Then on our regular feature, i’m looking it’s time to check in again with our recruiter, paula marks and our non-profit job seeker leonora paula’s advice for career and job search works for your next search, whether you’re in it now or it’s in your future, and between those segments, of course, it’s always tony’s take, too. I’m going to talk about six tips to master your fund-raising relationships from a blogger post that i did this week before he departs. I wanna give a shout, larry bloom and his guest at nizer. Adios, larry, so you next week. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio, and after this break, i’ll be with jeff marston back office blunders in a pre recorded session. Co-branding think tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. Things cubine is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl are said to want to nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back on tony martignetti, the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. I’m joined now by jeff marston. Jeff is the president of resource centers for management, and before founding the resource center’s, he was the first housing division director of the volunteers of america in new york city. He also has management and planning consulting experience throughout the u s and in saudi arabia, including two stints with booz allen and hamilton. So clearly you can see that his background is in non-profits and the corporate consulting area. So he brings that for-profit and corporate experience to our small and non-profit small and midsize non-profit audience, and i’m very pleased that jeffs practice brings him to the studio today. Welcome, jeff. Good to be here, tony it’s. A pleasure to have you. We want to talk about saving money for small and midsize non-profits on the in the back office. Let’s start with something that i think is a pretty substantial budget item for a lot of organizations, maybe all that that are able to even offer it. Health insurance. What suggestions do you have around health insurance? And tony, i very much recommend that non-profits when they’re taking a look at cost reduction start with health insurance because is usually the biggest item second teo salaries and wages so one of the critical issues in dealing with health insurance is never just renew your policy don’t just blindly say it’s another year, let’s, go let’s, continue where we’ve been, ok, what should we be doing instead? First of all, for smaller agencies and and small is fifty and under is that, uh, there are only six providers insurance providers in the state that will will deal with these small, smaller organizations in which state of you’re referring to in new york’s, new york, and the critical issue is to work with your broker, and you must pull your broker in as a consultant and is an adviser on dh that’s. That advice applies regardless of where you’re located in any of the fifty states have this sort of consulting relationship with your broker exactly, and if you don’t get a new broker, they want your business and they will provide consulting services, advisory services work with you and if they’re not change brokers and what sort of advice should you expect from this kind of a consulting relationship? From your broker as a consultant. Two or three of the key issues are one. Do we have the right structure? There’s, the traditional structure of health insurance and where you have a relatively low deductibles and you have the other kind, the h r a h s a deductible. If we have to stop you. And in this show, we have jargon. Jail. Okay. And i’m the warden of jargon jail. I hate to put you in there, but it’ll be of a temporary stay. Please tell us what h r a and the other acronym of mean, what is that? I can’t tell you what h r a stands for, but h s a or health savings account? Okay. They’re also known is high deductible accounts. You should at least talk to your broker about whether or not those structures that makes sense for your agency. And if they don’t know or they refuse to talk about it, get a new broker. Okay. Thankyou. Your sentence in jargon jail is commuted. Okay. Thank you very much. Temporarily. I hate okay. No, go ahead. Um, another thing is that since there are relatively few insurance companies in any state, do not go shopping for health. Insurance every year because the insurance companies will know you will get a bad reputation, and since their costs in the first year of serving, you are much higher because they have to sign you up, they have to do all the data processing, et cetera. You’re going, you’re you’re going to get a negative image, so you want to stay. You want to get into a situation where you stay with health provider for at least two or three years unless they’re provide terrible service, and maybe you’re changing plans or benefit levels within that provider. But your advice is stay with the same provider, whatever plan you’re into, correct thie other thing i would say about health insurance is that seriously, consider wellness programs, especially if you’re a larger agency and your broker and your health care providers should be able to work with you on that. So your people use fewer health care services and therefore your premiums have a chance of going down and in just a minute or so we have left before a break. You’re going to be looking for your broker consultant to be advising you on the suitability well, you know, the suitability for your agency and what the wellness plans are, that they should be, that you should be looking at, absolutely. Which part of it is a professionalism? Part of it is the personality of the person. The other is, are they the right size broker for you? If you have fifteen hundred employees, you don’t want a one person shop broker, and conversely, you’ve got fifteen employees. You don’t want to have one of the world’s five biggest brokers because they’re not going to care about you. My guest is jeff marston, and we’re talking back office blenders, saving you money and all kinds of back office costs on tony martignetti, the host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. We’re going to take a break. Please stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get a drink. Cubine hi, i’m new york state senator joe a dabo. I will be hosting a Job fair on friday, november 12 at aqueduct racetrack in queens. From tending into three p m, we will have over one hundred companies looking for qualified workers. They’re all to be lectures on job strategies and networking. So come and bring plenty of resumes and join me on friday, november twelve at aqueduct racetrack. For a Job fair from 10 a m to three p m. For more information, please call pete in my district office at seven one eight seven three eight one one one one. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine two nine. Zero or visit w w w. Dot mind over matter. Y si dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz e-giving thinking. Dick tooting, getting thinking things geever in-kind welcome back. I’m joined by jeff marston, president of resource centers for management. Jeff another a sizable portion of probably most of our audience is budget is office space office leasing. Most of our audience does not own a building. What about saving money around office leases? What advice do you have? It is in a major area where people can save money in the biggest blunder in office. Leasing area is to not get your own broker. Everybody who has purchased a house. Ah, condo. A coop gone out and gotten their own real estate broker. And the sellers have their own real estate brokers. Yes, certainly. Every building owner has a broker right in commercial real estate, you never want to talk to the person whose name is on the building. The broker whose name is on the building that working for the landlord, you need to go and find a tenant only broker who will work for you. This will save you money in the negotiations, and it will not cost you extra money. That landlord is going to pay a commission. When a transaction happens, he can either pay all of it to his own broker. Or he can split it in half and pay half to his broker and have to your broker. So this consulting advice does not cost you any money, so all right, so this non-profit does not pay for this broken relationship, and there are so many variables in a commercial lease on dh that doesn’t only apply in a big city, but there’s all kinds of chargebacks and emergency clauses and how to get out of the lease and all kinds of contingencies. It’s i think it’s just too complex for a non broker, non lawyer toe figure out, and i’m not going to go to a bunch of the details, but i would say to other things, first of all, because of all those details do not rely on even the best real estate attorney because the real estate attorney is not necessarily up on the market in terms of huh? Vacancy rates, costs of the give backs and he will make it happen. But a broker is the one that knows what the market is. So you need a good real estate attorney do not rely just on your real estate attorney to be your brokering represented the second thing is take advantage of the market today it is a buyer’s lee sir’s market, and it is very likely that if you have less than five years left in your lease, even if you love your building and want to stay, this is a good time to explore extending your lease, renegotiating your lease off and so take advantage of the market. A broker is going to know what the market is and be able to give you the good advice. I’ve often heard the advice that even if you intend to stay, it’s it’s valuable to go out into the marketplace, as you’re suggesting, because you can use the marketplace as leverage for renegotiating your released in the current space absolutely end with today’s market with the vacancy rates hyre if a landlord loses a tenant, it is much more likely that they’re going to have a vacant space for, um or extended period of time than, say, five years ago when ten a day left, you clean it up, knock down a wall paint put in new carpeting and three weeks later, tenant he moves in that’s, not the way it works, so landlords are much. More interested in keeping good tenants? Um, what about phones and internet service and that’s something that every non-profit has what’s the what’s, the marketplace like there in terms of trying to save some money for them? Well, there’s, good news and bad news on this we have the good news is that everyone, whether it’s, it’s, your home or your or your business of your non-profit has been saving millions and billions of dollars over the last twenty five years as that as a t and t was broken up and new competitors have come in. And so we’ve all been saving an incredible amount of money. Therefore, ah, i would recommend that someone ah non-profit not take a look at telephone and internet connections as a high priority area for cost reduction, because so many contradictions have already been squeezed out of the market in just because of with market trends. I think that the first place to start within that area is in your data, not on your voice communications, and there was a lot more competition in the the line charges between communication hubs and you knows we’re starting to get technical, but they’re okay if you get too technical put in george in jail, but go ahead, but on the data side, most non-profits are less sophisticated in that area and the in the market, there was more competition buy-in in that area than there is over on the voice side. Okay, um, and on the voice side, i know that there are consultants who will work on a contingency basis. Now, i do understand your caveat that this is not a place to look maybe first or even second for cost, because we’ve already we’re all enjoying the savings, and we all pay unlimited. We all pay a flat fee, probably for unlimited service, but if someone wanted to look at it, the phone side, there are these consultants to work on a contingency, right? And we’ll review your bill. Yes, there are, they’re two kinds of consultants, and they’re two different perspectives. There are certain consultants that will do an audit of your past bills and see whether you’ve been overcharged charge for things that weren’t in your contract and there’s a basically a fifty fifty contingency situation. Usually, if you have not, if you’ve either never had an audit or you have not had an audit in the last three or four years. It’s reasonable to consider it. Okay. The other kind of consultant is looking at the future and they probably will not charge a contingency. They they will get paid by the phone company the way in and insurance broker is on a residual basis so you won’t have to pay for this service. They they will show you how to save money, and then you will just pay the phone company what you pay and the phone company will pay them at residual commission. And for these look back phone consultants. When you say it’s a contingency fee basis, that means if they save you money and i guess if they actually get you money back from previous errors, omissions, whatever mistakes they get fifty percent, and you keep fifty percent that’s. Correct? There should be no other fees. Ah, no other exchange of money and this sort of assignment. Unless they actually save it and get it back correct and let’s. Look sort of expand from phone internet and look att utilities. Little more generally. What way we’d be talking about gas and electric, primarily gas and electric. In some, in some areas also a fuel oil. I know this is getting really boring. People start to glass over when you talk about when you, when you think about your utility bills, if you are paying them directly as opposed to paying them is part of your lease. This is an area where there is a whole new market, and in new york they’re called s coz ceo energy supply companies. They are state regulated. They are approved by your local utility. Tell you’re afraid of george in jail again. I am, but i’m a quick learner. Tony. By the way, my guest is jeff marston and he’s, the president of resource centers for management. We’re talking about backoffice blunders, saving you money in the back office. And, of course, i interrupted you, jeff let’s, talk more about those energy service companies. Okay. Basically, they are legitimate as they said, their their their their state monitored. It is a legitimate organized market. And anyone can save sixty seven percent on their total utility bill. Now gas and electricity. And ah also, most customers now have the opportunity to enter into a fixed price contract. And especially if you are interested as a non-profit. If you were interested in budget certainty over a specific period of time, these energy supply companies can now offer you a fixed price for a year. Two years, three years. You, you may save money. You may you made not save money because of the market goes down significantly. But if you are comfortable with where the market is today and you want that budget certainty then this is now offered to you through this this new energy supply company idea. And how do you find the energy supply companies? The s goes in your area, wherever you are in the us. Well, there are there two basic ways. One is you. Give me a call at eight, six, six two seven seven, eight, six, six xero or you go to the website of your local utility of or of your state public service commission. And of do a little do a little seeking on, and you will find the names and contact information for all of those. The vast majority ofthe states that have decoupled supply from distribution in the energy business are located from the district of columbia to maine. Oh, okay. It’s atlantic seaboard, the mid atlantic yeah, admit atlantic and new england if you’re listening to us and in denver or minneapolis or new orleans, your states are are not not doing yeah. So so in so outside the area, from maine to washington d c you’re saying it’s pretty much just you work with the supplier that that is state authorized? Correct? There aren’t thes energy service companies s coz that’s? Correct? Let me also add that if you want to go broader than our discussion, i have something from jeff. The file name is cutting costs and it’s ah it’s from a workshop that he did on cost management strategies. He was the facilitator and i have it up on my block now that’s at mpg a dv dot com you click the media tab and you’ll find the file under today’s show date the october eighth and the fire was called cutting costs that is provided to our listeners from jeff. I want to thank him for giving us that resource. What else? Sounds like you might have more, more, more advice around utilities. How? Well, let me ask you specifically how often should you be going? Into the marketplace to compare what you’re paying now with what you could be paying is that every year, every couple of years, how is that good question? Completely different from the health care area it’s completely different competitive situation there are in new york state, there are about twenty five, cos it’s much more of a commodity. So basically, if you’re staying with a variable month to month kind of cost once a year, you should seriously reconsider if you are enter into a contract one, two or three years, then you went about three months before your contract terminates. You get back with the company or your broker, and and you take a look at it but it’s much more of a of a commodity situation. It’s interesting. There are different areas of savings where you should be into the marketplace, um, or or less frequently, definitely. And this gets back into using your broker, your provider, your vendor as a consultant and finding out what the market is in terms of your relationship to the market in terms of buying and going out forbidden, that sort of thing. So they will tell you, and it changes from subject matter to subject matter and it’s really up to you to broaden your relationship with your broker, tio this consultative advisory role that you’re suggesting in whatever area we’re talking about, right? And you should not you should not feel hesitant to do that. People want to get they want to get your business, and they are able to provide these services and in tougher economic times they’re increasingly willing, and therefore you don’t have to staff up or it’s it’s there for the asking. One other thing on energy we’ve talked about buying energy for less thie other is using less energy. New york state ah has a subsidy for energy on its by third party funs to do an audit of your facility so the state will help you pay for the others. And, uh, the cost of the audit is certainly less than a thousand dollars, and as i said, it’s, a third party, a situation it’s not done by a lighting engineering company, and so they’re going teo recommend all kinds of lighting situations these air companies with with contracts with the state, and they will take a look at the physical plant and all. Your equipment and that sort of thing and give you give you a report. That’s the other side that’s the other side of the utility area where you may be able to save money. Certainly over the next, you know, five year period, for example, and for our listeners that might be outside new york, that could be something that they should look for. Also, if even if there isn’t a state subsidy but the energy audit, maybe money worth spending because you can save the cost of the audit over several years in the future? Yes. And it’s, much more likely that this state subsidized program exists in in new york than it does anyplace else. Given the level of expenditures in new york. My ah, my warning for people is that they that is very possible, that they could find the right consultant. And they might find a affirm that is in the biz is in one segment of the business of lighting or h c or some other area. But if you have a good heart to heart discussion with them about, we want to see everything, not just your specialty. You it may very well be worthwhile tohave it done. We have about a minute and a half left. Jeff, i’d like to look at the ah, the sort of more mundane actually have about a minute left office supplies off of everybody spending money on paper, paper clips, staples are their savings that can be wrenched out of this. Yes. Couple of rules of thumb never buy office supplies from a company that has retail stores. Really? Retail stores are expensive. And even though you’re buying over the internet, you’re paying for the retail store. So staples office depot are they recommend they are major companies that are lower, lower crossed so let’s, just focus on that because we only have a little time left in thirty seconds or so. What what’s the alternative if we’re not going to buy from staples, office depot, et cetera, where should we go? Well, ah, i have a favorite company and i don’t think we should. I don’t think i should promote them, but if people want to talk to me about that, i can i can do that off the air. This is an area that most companies that they have not gone out for bid in. The last twelve months can save fifteen to twenty five percent. Jeff. Again, if people would like to reach you, what’s what’s the phone number or the e mail one okay, uh, i’m old fashioned. Give me a call. Toll free number is eight, six, six, two, seven, seven, eight, six, six. Xero. My guest has been jeff marston, president of resource centers for management. I hope you got valuable back office blunder avoidance tips this week on tony’s, take two, which is coming up after this break. I’m going to talk about my block post this week, which is six tips to mastering your fund-raising relationships. I’ve got some ideas for you to keep in mind as you try to build those strong relationships, some things to do and not do, and that’ll be and tony’s take two after this break. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy contact them today. Admission one one media dot com hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to the show. Of course, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio. In a moment, i’ll be joined by our resident recruiter, paula marks, and our non-profit job seeker leonora. But right now, it’s tony’s, take two. My block post this week is six tips to mastering your fund-raising relationships just some basic ideas that have been getting some pretty favorable comments on the block. Of course, my block is at m p g a d v dot com and a couple of those tips. One of them is to be a good listener, you know? You’re trying to build sound and honest relationships and strong relationships with your prospects and donors. I think one of the simplest ways to do that is just listen to what they have to say. Listen to what they say about your non-profits work and how much it means to them, because that’s giving you clues as to what might be interesting to them to give to and to fund you listen to what they say about their family that can give you clues to their receptivity to making an additional gift. Your your organization? Certainly, if you’re in planned giving fund-raising family. Circumstances very important, but it really applies for everyone be a good listener. People appreciate someone who listens to their story. Um, remember anniversaries and i don’t just mean weddings and birthdays, but on idea that i’m always sharing with clients is remember the anniversary of when the donor told you that they’ve included you in their will or the anniversary of when a donor made ah gift to you and it doesn’t have to be a substantial gift, but you want them to know that that gift, whatever its size and whatever type it was planned or outright or otherwise was so important to you that you remember the anniversary of it ah, year later, two years later, you remember the day they made their gift, they’re not going to remember that, but they’ll be very touched that you remembered their gift anniversary on one more. And then there were six on the post. I’m just giving you three right now, right hand written notes hardly anybody writes handwritten notes anymore, and writing a hand written note on a piece of stationary or card is so much easier than sitting in front of a blank eight and a half. By eleven screen, inward and feeling compelled to fill it. You want to write something heartfelt and sincere, but you can say it in fifty years. Sixty words and you don’t have to feel like you have to fill an eight and a half by eleven inch page. Read it in a card or on a piece of stationary hand written notes so uncommon, and for that reason they stand out, you’ll find those tips on three others on my block. Post six tips to mastering your fund-raising relationships my blog’s that m p g a d v dot com. I’m joined now in the studio by paula marks, paula is president of hyre resource is on her career. An executive search spans almost three decades. She’s, our contributing search consultant for the regular i’m looking featured and which is a recurring feature on the show, and i’m very glad to have paula in the studio. Paula, welcome back. Thank you, tony. Good to be back and on the phone we have leonora scala are non-profit a job seeker who has been graciously sharing her search for a job in non-profits with us. Leonora, nice to have you back. Thanks. Welcome back from from staten island, right here on staten island. Correct. Excellent. So, leonora, why don’t you? Ah, why don’t you tell us what’s been happening for you in the last four to five weeks since we last talked, you spoke. I wish i had better news. However, things have been more status quo. I’ve been getting responses to applications, sending letters directly, however, nothing yet has been solidified and what i’m coming across is something similar. I think we’ve all been talking about is if you don’t have that direct experience, um, in the field, i hate to say it. They sometimes don’t wantto even bother with you, it’s more of a specialized industry right now versus where it was few years back. And maybe, paulie, you could even comment on that because that at least would have been experiencing here and similar to what other people have been talking to and trying to communicate with him. Yeah, before i bring paula in, i just want to remind people that you’re looking for a non-profit a job. But you have a for-profit background in finance. Financial services? Yeah. Financial services also in the cosmetic industry, on dh people. I mean, within the industry, people want to talk to you and then outside of the industry, they’re like saying, well, we’re not sure if you know, you’re the right fit, it’s, almost like they’re looking for that cookie cutter person and leonora just remind us why it is that you want to make this career search. Why is that non-profit jobs so important to you? Yeah, back in back in august, my mother had back surgery, and when we had a look for rehab centers and i was doing the investigative work, i found that the non-profit ones were the better ones. No, and i said to myself, why not be since i know i’m in, you know, looking out there for something as a career opportunity, i would get very well in trying to make money for a profit organization. Why not be able to do that for a non profit organization and have them utilize that money just to help people, you know, in whatever what, in every which way it could be if it’s not just, you know, for the older people, kids or for animals or whoever it may be any non-profit paula, she has a lot of passion, but she’s not getting interest from the not-for-profits side. Well, i think that there’s a couple of things operating here and that is that we live in a time where there’s a lot of silos, and i think that organizations or at least their recruiters believe that if they hire somebody out of the same industry that they’re minimizing the risk, and i don’t believe that that’s true, and i think the one thing about human beings is where the only product that has a mind of our own. So just because you’re the guy from the competitive firm across the street doesn’t mean you’re going to be a better performer. And i think that if the not-for-profits were more open, as in the four, profits were more open to different kinds of experiences, as long as the person knows how to perform the function that they’re tasked with. And in leah norris case, she’s very fortunate that she has two career path. She’s got a financial career path and she’s got a product marketing one could even say she has three career paths, so she’s adapted, she went from banking to big consumer and she’s. Had to work in environments where finding funding was very important, even if it was for-profit finding funding is what not-for-profits all about how do we make this case, though, to the not-for-profits so they get out of there silo, and don’t just hire somebody from another non-profit and, you know, from a competitive non-profit who’s already been doing the work they’re looking for, how does she make this case? Well, i think that we as a c society need to make a big, big, sweeping changes i think we need to get people to listen to broadcast like this and to think about why am i not finding good people and that’s something that i’ve heard from companies for decades? Oh, it’s really hard to find good people, and you’re not going to find good people if you’re only looking in the same place, you need to be looking at other organizations and other industries and other skillsets where people have been challenged in different ways, i’m not saying that you should hire me to be your sepia, because i don’t bring that financial skill, but because i worked in a lot of different industries on the search side. I think it’s, one of the things that made makes me a very good search consultant is that i can understand a wide range of issues from a wide range of businesses and that the truth of the matter is it’s easier to have somebody who’s coachable that you can teach an industry. Look, i know you’ve been at this for some time, and we’ve been following you for probably five months or so roughly, and you were in a search before that. Are you thinking about abandoning the the non-profit sort of your search? I think that i’m not going to abandon it one hundred percent. I still eventually want to get there. I just feel like at the moment, most of the responses are coming from the profit side of the organization is teo, get that job because, you know the thing is it’s always easy to find a Job when you have 1 um, to do that and work my way. I know it’s it’s dealing with bond hearing, i need to do more of that. I started doing it very little, but now i need, you know, to heavier in that really to prove to those. Non-profit organizations that i’m serious about what i’m saying, so i’m not going to abandon one hundred percent, but i need at this point, i want to find something yeah, you have to be realistic, yeah, i’m trying to be realistic about what is coming my way and not abandoning that one hundred percent, so i want to be able to do that, but maybe it’s more of a long term thing, okay, okay. And, you know, we never we didn’t know what the outcome was going to be, not that the outcome is predetermined. I’m not well, certainly predetermined. I mean, not that the outcome is known something could break, so, you know, we don’t know what’s going to happen, but i think this could be valuable for for, for people, even if you end up, not in the non-profit job you’re it sounds like you’ve got the right attitude, i’m going to ask paula to say, you know, does she she’s gotta be realistic? Is this kind of rite attitude that the non-profit search should really be a longer term altum process for her, i think, is you said it’s, not a known situation, and i think because of the current state of the market and the huge amount of unemployment. I don’t think we can afford to abandon anything, and i think we’re constantly like grains of sand where we have to constantly be connecting with more people in different people. And as i have said, toe excuse me, leonora, i think that it sometimes takes going out of the box in a different way than we think about that you’re not necessarily calling hr people. You’re not necessarily just calling the finance person maybe call public relations or public affairs to connect in other ways in the organization’s you’re interested in. And you’ve made that point a number of times, paula, that you just you can’t be out enough. And you’ve told stories about talking to people on trains and planes and thinking your doctor’s office, you know? So why don’t we? Just what? I’m going to turn to leonora, andi, ask what? What have you done? Leonora that’s that’s out of the box, whether it resulted in ah for-profit interest or not, whether it was for-profit non-profit what have you done that similar to what paul is describing? I’ve actually come out of the shell. I i’m always the type of person that i’ll go up and talk to people, however, i’ve been a little bit more bolder come and doing that if someone came back to me and says, you know, we don’t see a right fit here, i’ve gone back to them and i said to them, give me some opportunity and time to sit down with you and show you almost proved to you where i see it could work some cases i’ve had positive results in it and meeting that at least talk to me, and there were times when they’re like, you know, sorry, we don’t see it happening, you know? No, thank you, okay, each one is a learning each one is a learning experience that i’m sure exactly exactly what it is, and as i’m out there, i’m out there, just, like, put what polish says talked everybody on ideo and their times, i’m sitting in starbucks and someone happened to talk to me, and i’m like i’m there talking to them and trying to find out and connect with them in which way i can. We’re going to take a break, i’m with leonora scala, our job. Seeker non-profit job seeker and paula marks our resident and contributing search consultant. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna i really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. 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Talking all calm. No. Welcome back to the show, leonora before the break, you were saying that you’ve come out of your shell that’s probably something necessary don’t do you feel that way for job seeker? Totally. I think when you first are looking, you tend to be a little bit more reserved. You i’m not gonna do you have the idea? I’m not going to be doing that, and then you get tripoint where no, i’m going to do that. You need to be just boulders. What on finding and nothing bold in a bad way. I’m saying bold where you’re going to try things that you haven’t tried before, okay, leonora, i’m sorry, paula. You probably have something to contribute about being out there being bold. I do, and i’m not sure that i consider it bold, but i think it can be bolder. I think we all have to think about things differently, and i think we have to look at things differently, and we’ve been thrust into being entrepreneurs in a time when we’re coming out of decades of being a cog in a wheel, and i think that being available to people making ourselves available and hoping other people. Are available to us is going to help create more opportunities and more awareness and more connective ity leonore what’s the next step for you now i’m still going to keep on going at it the next epps i have i’ve actually gathered her roughly about maybe seven to ten companies that i’m going to find key people within the organization and try to connect with him in that way and it’s just going to be starting out just talking to him you mean in the not-for-profits non-profit yes, i’m sorry, um and just talk to them and find out what their needs are, one of the concerns that they have and i’m going to come back and say to myself, okay, where could i help them and try toe? We’ll call it, try to convince them i’ll tryto persuade them it’s almost like what to do with fund-raising and you’re trying to get people shoot, you know i don’t need the money, and here i’m trying to hold myself a dollar bill, but i’m trying to sell myself to them. I’m going to try to work that way. Does your networking include networking with non-profit cfos? Who? The reason? I’m asking is because i think they’d have a better one standing of your background does that include a cz your work, including that that is the new i was going after more than people like the line people of people who have the reporting to you now that’s my next that’s, my next step is all right, now i need to go a little level hyre because maybe they’re the ones who truly understand dahna you know, i also try to look and do a little bit more research on their backgrounds and to find out where they came from because if someone had a similar background just coming from a profit into a non-profit they’ll probably understand it more than maybe somebody who’s always been a non-profit so i’m trying different angles on that, and maybe in a few weeks, we’ll see something different coming to play. But, you know, i can’t predict the future, okay, on dh my thought was that cfo’s, with their financial background, would have a better understanding of what you could do, how your experience would translate to their organizations. Paula, what would you like to see leonora doing next? Next steps, i think she’s doing a lot of the right things as we talked about more recently it’s continuing to do the research and find perhaps if she can’t find the headquarters in the new york market where there isn’t a headquarters in the new york market, maybe talk to people in regional offices. I think we all know the companies move from people move from company to company to company, often in the same sector. But if you reach a regional person, let’s just say for girl scouts of america in this market and they know somebody in another not-for-profits or finding out where the conferences are for the not-for-profits market, even if it’s not in the financial area, but it’s, perhaps in the fund-raising area, so at least you’re rubbing elbows with the kind of people that can be helpful to you. And i think that a lot of hiring is done based on how we occur for people and the way we behave and how people feel about being around us personality type, personality type of style, how you process information, how open you are to a conversation that you could talk about things other than your own organization. Having some band with you mentioned earlier leonora volunteer work and that you haven’t done too much of it, you’ve done some what type of work have you been doing? I’ve done a little volunteering at a dog shelter because i have this a little passion for dogs because i want a sitting home doing some letters, and i heard on the news that the way that these animals were being treated and i’m like, oh, my god, that’s right by where i live, let me go there and check it out. I’ve done it, but i just need to, like, i’ve done a few hours here and there, i think i need to be more dedicated in that respect. Dahna okay, its meaning what i say, what i say, paula, volunteering, is that a good guy? So they want to make this transition absolutely it’s another way of meeting people in the industry that you’re interested in, and i guess demonstrating a commitment to the to the industry, demonstrating a commitment, getting to know something about the organization, you will certainly learn more about not-for-profits if you’re functioning at one, even if it’s on a part time basis and non paid, by the way, nonpaying dwork still counts, you’re still there. You still getting experience? You still hopefully looking around and gaining an understanding of how these organizations work and you’re showing your commitment because our time is limited, but you’re devoting your limited time is right to something that you you aspire to and you’re giving back, which is what not-for-profits all about, it may be valuable, leonardo, for our listeners to hear where the leads on the for-profit side have come from actually in various, various ways. One is definitely a few recruiters here and there, some of it was coming from just supposing you do the board, you know, like monster, and they simply hired something’s coming from there open, and i’m doing a lot of things through linked in, and the more i become networked with different people, it seems like they’re searching me out based on my background, like, oh, you know, we’re looking for somebody with just have a background would you be interested in a position that i’m working on or had a two companies actually connect with? May i’m saying, you know, how about we sit down and talk and the smartest of a talking exploratory, but you never know where that could lead. Come on and then some other ones is me just doing direct mailing? Okay, let me just sending to, like, a hiring manager saying, you know, i’m interested in your corporation, you know, could we sit down and i’ll share fifteen minutes with you, and some of it is coming from there, okay? And in just the thirty seconds or so, we have left. Paula, these sound like home runs. Can we can i sit? Come sit down and talk and direct mail hits absolutely it’s a step in the right direction, it opens another door and the value for our listeners could be, you know, if they are in, if you’re in a non-profit now and you’re making a more direct transition, that million or is trying to make her advice could be valuable for your transition, which would be an easier one than when she’s trying to work on leonora. Thank you very much for sharing your story again. Thank you for having me, it’s. Our pleasure. Paula marks. Thank you for joining me in the studio. Thanks, tony. My thanks to leonora scala are non-profit job seeker and paula marks are contributing search consultant and also thanks to jeff marston for backoffice blunders next week. Amy eisenstein she’s, the author of fifty, asks in fifty weeks, and she’ll share advice from her book on direct mail board fund-raising diversifying your funding, creating an individual giving program and quite a bit more from her book hope you’ll be part of that conversation you can keep up with what’s coming up on the show. Sign up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page while you’re there, click like and become a fan of tony martignetti non-profit radio, we’re on itunes. We’ve been on itunes for weeks where we’ll be on itunes for much longer. Subscribe and listen any time on the device of your choice smartphone tablet, computer, whatever that’s at non-profit radio dot net, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff line producer sam liebowitz and our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. 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Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join joshua margolis, fitness expert, two one two eight six five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w dot mind over matter. N y c dot com cerini fundez talking all calm. Hyre