329: Prosperity Paradox – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio, where we’re talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. You would cause me to go into cardiogenic shock if i learned that you had missed fermentation sandorkraut cats is a fermenter. We talked about the history, benefits and methods of fermenting foods and volunteermatch making scott koegler, our technology contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, shared ideas about tech that matches willing volunteers with seeking charities this week, all aboard. First, get the best out of your board our panel shares wisdom on identifying, recruiting, training, engaging and transitioning board members. I talked to allison char now, terry, billy and holly bellows at fund-raising day in june and back to board basics, do you, jane takagi are legal contributor returns to contribute to continue our discussion on soundboard practices? This time, we’ll talk about term limits, how often you’re bored should meet having automatic removal provisions and very young trustees that’s young in age, not in how they’re acting, and jean is principal of the non-profit exempt organizations law group between the guests on tony’s take to my beth cantor interview is on video, and i feel i let you down last week, and i’m going to explain that right now. We have the interview from fund-raising day this past june, where we’re talking about getting the best out of your board, and here is that welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen where at the marriott marquis hotel in times square, midtown new york city and we’re talking now about board relations. My guests are it’s needed most closest closest to meet holly bellows, chief development officer of helen keller’s services for the blind. Next to her is terry billy, director of corporate and foundation relations for goodwill industries of new york and new jersey. And we also have allison for now director of external affairs for the bronx museum of the arts ladies welcome. Thank you. Thank you. It’s. A pleasure to have you. Your seminar topic is bored. Relations getting the best out of your trustees. No, let’s start far away. Allison, can we start with recruitment? What? What? What’s? Some advice around identifying and recruiting the right boardmember well for museum. We have a lot of opportunities for cultivation of perspective, trustees. We looked to people who come to many of our events. We sort of noticed repeat attendees way start plucking them out. We invite them to special private events. We find that people are very attracted to sort of exclusive private events, not generally open to the public. So we invite them to dinners or preview openings of exhibitions and that’s how we generate interests, and we see if they respond to that we just keep cultivating more and generally that’s, that’s way, tio sort of notice and pounce on perspective prospects. We also use other trustees to help us, and they bring along people whom they think would be a fit for the museum to two events as well. Okay, i mean, i sort of go down the line on different topics. Teri, you have anything you’d like to add about identifying the right people? Well, we’re different kind of agency were a social service ages. We don’t really have events or exhibitions or things like that that people would come to so instead we have to really go the traditional route, which is working with our trustees to see if they have friends or colleagues or others that might come be interested in working with our organization or we go toe on organizations such as bored source to do recruitment. Two or two funders, corporations, foundations that might be interested in supporting us in a different way through ford relations. Okay, so you’re relying more on your board because you don’t have those cultivation events. By the way, terry, i want to welcome you back to the show. Thank you. Chatted with you this time last year. How about you, holly? Like they have that goodwill industries is doing well differently. Well, we’re also human service organization. We serve the blind, and those were deaf blind. And so we have the same process as terry. We look for people who are already within the organization. People that know people that want to be committed for the long along home. Okay? And i apologize. I confused you with i’m sorry, terry. I’m here with goodwill industries and holly. Of course, you’re with falik falik color this’s blind. Thank you very much. Coach me on each individual word. Now i have it. Holly’s with helen keller services for the blind. Thank you, but no, thank you. Thank you for saving me. Okay, after we’ve way haven’t identified the right people way have to start. Teo, make conversation a lot more serious. Terry, how do we how do we go about that? Well, we work with a development committee. In fact, i had my development kitty meet committee meeting last night, which we met with five of our board members. And we talked about the different things that were doing to raise money. And we talked about developed direct mail cultivation events and funding alerts for possible corporate foundation connections, finding out what they’d like to do, how they like to help. And so that’s that’s, how we work with our board, we have a lot of other board members that in war policy driven, so they’re not so much into fund-raising so we have to use them as ambassadors they’re not so comfortable in. They get scared about fund-raising and what the expectations will be have to have to come out in the recruitment process. Right? Right. Would you say holly? This is critical. We need to be up front. How do you how do you do that? Helen keller. Well, right now i weigh had a board meeting on monday morning and a golf tournament afterwards. And so i i spoke with the board that i will be interviewing them over the next couple of months. Existing existing board, the existing board. Okay, and on that will be part of the question is, we also had a former board members come to the golf tournament to reinforce the other ties to the organization, and i will be interviewing them, too. And so is part of that process reaching out to not only what they’re interested interests are going forward, but, you know, looking for prospects and, you know, foundations as well as their personal connections for future board development. Imagine it’s it’s it’s important not to be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Different board members have different interests. Aptitudes abilities, right? They can all come to the board for different reasons. Maybe they had someone in their family that is blind or deaf blind. Or maybe it just seems like a really cool thing to do. They learned about helen keller in third grade here in new york state. And they want teo you. Know, be a part of it. So various everyone has various reasons why they want to be on the board, and we want to exploit those personalities and and credentials, right? That’s, right? Some people they may not be able to get give from their personal wealth or their corporate wealth, but they are connected to lots of people who may be able to give to us or a foundation. I interviewed someone earlier today who uses is actually sort of ah, trainer on linked in hey uses, linked in board, connect on trains, organizations to use linked in board, connect to any of you use that for identifying potential board members. Anybody? Yes, that’s one of the things that we are planning to grow our board in the coming fiscal year fiscal starts in july, so we will be using board, connect as one of the tools and dish in tow board source to reach out and look for a new board members. So you haven’t used board connect yet? No. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I do plan to use it, though, so you’re so holy. You’re aware. Also aboard. Connect. I’m aware of it, but i haven’t used it. I’m creating a separate committee. A cz i told you before the interview. I’m hyre helmsley. We have a grant from the helmsley found charitable foundation and one of their charges tow us is to create a aboard for one of our programs so that we can attract funders and people who are interested in serving the deaf blind. And so i’m going to be using it soon to look for people across the country that might want to become members of this committee. Alison to make this aa two way street. How does the organization identify what it has to offer board members in return for their for their service? Right? Well, when we interview a prospect way really try and find out what? What is it that draws them to the museum? What is their interest? And for us, we have, ah, large education component. We have the whole art collection component, so they’re different reasons why a trustee would join the board of the museum. So we try and suss out what that will be. And i find a commonality is that they want to learn more. They often want to learn more about art. So for those who do, we put them on the acquisitions committee, and that way they can meet artists, and they can learn all that are they come to gallery tours. We sort of feel what? What is it that attracts them? So for others, it’s education, and they want to be part of the whole education programs. So they join the education committee for the board waken segment, their interests, and sometimes they don’t even overlap with board members. But we can sort of put them where they’re most enthusiastic. Okay, talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe. Right, groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight, six zero foreign, no obligation. Free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me. 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Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com and just while we’re still on this recruitment process, terry, how i said, terri and i looked at allison mary-jo terry, how do you explain the organization’s expectations? Is it in writing, or is it just a conversation? Thie expectations around all all the functions of a boardmember it’s through conversations way actually, in the past, our board has not really been a fund-raising board, and so we’re in the process of kind of transforming and educating our board as to their financial responsibility, even though that’s something that most people understand that that is one of the reasons why you become aboard is to support the organization, unfortunately, we have boardmember is that have not made a gif right? And so we need to have the conversation with them and to say that we need one hundred percent support, it doesn’t mean that you need to give us one hundred thousand dollars. You can give us five thousand dollars, you could give us three thousand dollars, you need to give us something so that’s one of our challenges with our organization, with a board that we are working through, even though we’re jumping way ahead in the boardmember life. Cycle that could be an indicator that it’s time for a boardmember step down exactly. In fact, we just started a new campaign to attract the millennials, the young twenties and thirty somethings to start, eh? Maybe a young, not so much a board, but a council we’re going to call the good the good counsel, and they’re going to be younger people that we want to get involved and engaged and so that they could eventually turn into board members. So we’re starting with the youth, starting with they’re all about cause marketing and the finding ways to make a difference by their volunteering, so we’re going to be working with them to do that, and then eventually, you know, have them start their own, like little special events and cultivation and awareness and marketing, and then eventually waken see floats to the top and hopefully get him on board. Okay, back-up another step, let’s say we’ve recruited the boardmember we need to keep that person active, engaged who wants to talk about keeping a boardmember active and engaged way have we’re fortunate that we have a vehicle for doing that, we can invite them to openings and too many events, but it’s really also about having them see the inner workings, lights, lights just dimmed here. Nothing wrong for those of you watching the video on youtube, there’s nothing wrong with your vision. The overhead lights all just went out here. Marriott marquis. But we’re continuing. We have our own lights powered battery so doesn’t doesn’t interrupt back on. Okay, no, don’t adjust your sets. Everything is fine. Okay? I’m sorry. Go ahead. So for example, that the trustees who are interested in education way let them come and see the classrooms that come to the museum to see the work in progress and to see the work that we do so it’s very important that they come in and see all the grassroots work that’s that’s happening. And the other thing is that we just try to make them feel special. I mean, we try to write letters that are personalized for them that nobody else could get, so that they would feel that, you know, they in fact do make a difference there. So, you know the gratitude combined with hands on and really seeing what what’s going on works to really keep them interested. Invested? In it good, great, it isn’t. One of the things that i have begun doing is whenever we get a grant or a large donation, even a small donation, but we are an organization that’s been around for one hundred twenty years or more, and so we have lots of get small gifts that we get and half for a long time, but i ask different board members to call the foundation or call the person and just a thank you they don’t ask for anything, but to in that way, they’re learning more about that organization, and they’re feeling connected and that’s been a real positive response that i’m getting. So as i said, we’ve been around for a long time, we have many donorsearch couldn’t call everyone they are picking up more and more that they can do. So. Holly, how about training training the new boardmember what does that look like for for helen keller way haven’t i haven’t started training yet since i’ve been since october, but what that will look like is for is creating a talking points and some role playing for those that haven’t gone out and ask for money, paring them with someone who has done it and feels comfortable with it, having conversations about their experience on other boards. It’s, interesting custom, many of our boardmember serve on other boards on, sometimes they’ve gone out and made asking some have not so it’s going to be a combination of things here teach person’s comfort level. At the very least, i tell boardmember sze in in the past that invite the person to join you, make your donation in first and then in fight uh, your prospect to join them if you just can’t really say, can you give x amount of dollars so that’s a nice, non threatening way to get started and asking for money. Allison, how about training the new boardmember bronx museum of the arts? What does that look like? Well, we have a retreat on annually and in terms of role playing, there was a facilitator who came and your role played about making an ask and talking about the priorities for the museum, so it was really a time it was a very concentrated long day dahna meeting the other board members really learning about the mission and learning how to move it forward howto ask. And how to do that. Nut’s involves metoo holly, it sounded almost like you have ah, maybe a mentor mentee relationship for board members is that? Is that is that overstating? No, it didn’t help that a senior boardmember mike, you that’s correct, my position is newly created position, and part of that is to help our board became come more of a fund-raising board many of our programs our government funded, so there wasn’t a need in the past to be a fund-raising board and many organizations like helen keller, are transitioning from having helly government funded programs to where they’re going to have to go out for private gifts, and they’ll get bored members more senior boardmember help with that, terry. Anyway, you want to add about training the new boardmember right that’s, exactly the same situation that good will in addition to having individual individuals support, we have also had in the past a lot of government funding, so asking board members to help with raising money is a somewhat new angle for them. So what we’ve been doing is bringing on a different new board members, for example, way just havin a new boardmember from j p morgan chase, who has been on other boards and has done fund-raising so he is kind of going to be a example or role model to the other board members to show show them how easy and painless it is, but we do have to identify tasks board members who just can’t do fund-raising or maybe maybe won’t? Well, maybe won’t takes little training, but they’re just they’re timid. They’re terrified of it. Terry, what do we identify other things that that boardmember could do around fund-raising right, right. Other than asking right it’s it’s getting them to come to different events or different cultivation events, too, talk, be an ambassador, so they’re not asking for money. They’re building awareness, they’re talking to their friends about what they do about what goodwill does and sharing the passion about what the organization’s all about and really building awareness, not so much asking for money. If they’re afraid of asking for money, they could be a representative and record. For those who are afraid, teo, ask or it’s just uncomfortable for them. We often say what we need you to do is identify potential trustees, advocate cultivate b passionate and then we come in that’s our job and the and the executive director’s stopped to come in and do the ask, so it takes the awkwardness and the onus away from them, and they feel that they can just freely invite a guest without the worry of having to do the actual ask, okay, how about may be hosting an event? They could perhaps open their home? Holly other tasks that again trying to identify things that people who will solicit can still be involved in around fund-raising well, i have someone on our board who is an attorney, and that person uses their personal skills to review documents that are very important to fund-raising such as st charitable registrations for things like that that are very important documents that keep my department moving and keep us legal and transparent, but that’s not at, you know, going out, asking for money, but it is very important to the movement of the organization. So, yes, there are other task that besides fund-raising the other part of my practice, besides plan e-giving is the charity registration i wrote. I wrote a new book on how to do-it-yourself you and i do the registrations for charities i don’t want to do. Them so very well acquainted with that enormous morass called charity registration. Terry, we’re gonna have something. Yeah, just the same thing is asking people to host a breakfast, maybe at the club, maybe at a restaurant they go to or at there. If they have a nice house or an apartment to host something again to invite their friends or people that we want to get more engaged, all they need to do is be the be the host they don’t need to ask. Okay? And we do that also especially we play in the bronx nostalgia. So we have people hosting private problem bronze talk to sow bronx artists from storytellers. We really emphasize the bronx and have these very small, intimate events at people’s homes, and those people who host often become interested because they posted they become vested. And then the whole positive spiral happens where they want to get more involved. It’s great. How about the i don’t know the recalcitrant boardmember who just either can’t do it? I won’t do it. Or that you could. But it’s just not too. Is that person need to be transitioned off the board? How do we how? Do we finesse that situation or they’re recalcitrant? Maybe about or maybe there their attendance is very poor. Maybe they are. Maybe they’re great fundraisers, but their attendance is back. You start to see these signs, how do we want to take the first shot that way? Especially the previous job i had at a small museum. It’s, very hard because in a small shop you get to develop relationships with your trustees and you realized, especially in the economic downturn in the past years, that life happens that trustees have goes divorces, they go through bad business times, and that may account for they’re not coming there, not being able to give. And i think in a small place where you built intimacy it’s really important to have some flexibility to give them, for example, if you know there’s a personal situation to give them a year or so, it is sorted out and have a little bit of leeway. On the other hand, you know, once you do that and it continues, i think then that’s, when the board president needs to talk to the boardmember find out what’s going on and have a really frank discussion about whether it’s working for both people often they’re relieved to be let off the hook. Okay, mary-jo you’re tense, that’s totally familiar with me. I mean, we in my past organisations and in this one you have sometimes people that you just know that they’re heading out because they haven’t shown up wave a big gold wheel or a rappel wheel in the four in the booth next to us. That’s what you’re hearing it’s not we’re not giving any other way, but with next to us is giving away t shirts, caps, mugs or ipad mini being in the drawing for a night. So that’s that’s what you’re hearing going so, you know, we just recently had one of our board members say that she needed to step down because life changes and different areas of interest abila different, different levels of interest in what we’re doing, we’re already priorities changed, and she said she would continue to support the organization, but she needed, you know, she just couldn’t make it to meetings, and we knew that because she hadn’t been to meetings in like, a whole year that starts to hurt ford morale generally, i mean other board. Members who are making the time fine, making time making effort start to get resentful everything right? Holly? Yes. Okay, anything you want to add more about thie transitioning off boardmember i just sort of playing what you’re doing in terms of building up a younger constituency in my past job and now in the bronx museum, trying to build a board a parallel board. It’s called the leadership council, which conserve as a farm team for future board members and also as a retirement place for trustees. Who can’t you know, the financial onus is too great as trusting, but there’s a lesser amount expected as from a leadership council member. So it’s nice to have a transition. You’re keeping them in the fold, keeping them interested. But they don’t have all the responsibilities and duties of a trusting. Do we each have term limits for boardmember ship? No, none of you have term limits. Really that’s interesting. And that’s, you know, that’s. A very double edged thing. Because in my former job we had founder syndrome. You know trustees who had been there a long time. Really? Basically. So i ran the board de facto it’s very tough. And it really made me understand why term limits would be good. On the other hand, when you have donors who give these were our biggest donors, it’s very tough to give up financial support that they provide so that’s one motivating reasons to have this other board where they could go as well. Anybody thinking about adding board limits, we would like normal social. Yeah, we would like to add term limits, that’s something that we need to have a discussion with the board president and make some changes so that we’re hoping that we can implement that, then they’re coming here, ok, way happening had that discussion on at this point way have long serving board members who and she said, contribute and are active, and i don’t want to say goodbye to them because they’re valuable to the organization and we love them. So ish, as she said it, zo double in. Okay, we have about a minute left or so anybody want one talk about anything that i didn’t ask you about, that you’re it’s on your mind because you’re doing your seven or in a couple of hours about the board relationship hyre final final final thoughts? No, nobody. Okay, well, we’ll leave it there. All right, thank you. Oh, my god. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Say that. Remind listeners and viewers that holly bellows is chief development officer of helen keller services for the blind. And terry billy is director of corporate and foundation relations for goodwill industries of new york and new jersey. On up, of course. Alison looking for your name here? Alison? Sure. Now sorry. Director of external affairs in the bronx. Regime of the arts, ladies. Thank you very much. Thank you for sharing your experiences. Thank you for being with me. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen i love that roulette wheel in the in the background they were giving away the big prize was an ipad mini so i heard that in a bunch of interviews always nice to have a little little pleasant background music for an interview. And my thanks, of course. Also to the organizer’s at fund-raising day i’ve got some live listener love moscow in the russian federation and in china, taiwan, guangzhou, wuhan and beijing. Ni hao i’ve been to beijing and of into wuhan, also, and seoul in south korea, on yo haserot in japan, hiroshima, metallica and tokyo. Lovett konnichi wa there’s. Plenty of domestic live listeners will get to them in a couple of minutes. Right now, we go to a break when we come back, tony’s, take two, and then gene takagi, continuing our are all aboard day with back to board basics, do keep listening. They didn’t didn’t dick, dick tooting, getting dink, dink, dink, dink, you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. Dahna good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll if you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr. Robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. And i’m dr tony martignetti and it is time for dr tony martignetti is take two. I just appointed myself phd since last week. They’re pretty easy to come by, so i figured, why go through the that the trouble? I’ll just name myself one my interview with beth cantor, which was on this show a couple of weeks ago. The video is now on my blogged you may recall, she is the author of the network to non-profit and measuring the network to non-profit we talked about riel online engagement and had a measure your success in your online efforts. That video is on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and i think i let you down. Last week i tried a new segment called out of the blue, and my intention was to bring things bring in people who have you are supporting non-profits but are doing work that’s not directly related to non-profits on dh sandora cats was the fermenter who are brought in, and he was terrific. He was delightful, but a zay was listening to him, and then i replayed it during the week, you know, i was kind of struck with why what? Is it why we listening? What does this have to do with non-profits it’s just not close enough to non-profits he supports non-profits um, but we didn’t talk much about that and that’s not really. Why you listen, is tto find out why people support non-profits i mean, at least not from one person’s perspective. S o we’re not goingto i’m not going to continue that out of the blue i what my intention was was to try to recognize that people who work in non-profits have lots of interests that have nothing to do with non-profits i read all the profiles of new twitter followers, and a lot of people comment on food that their food either to cook, ah, a lot of people coming on their kids, wine is a pretty popular one, different sports, so, you know, so that got me thinking people are multidemensional and maybe we should bring in some other dimensions besides non-profits and i thought a fermenter was a great place to start, but you have plenty of other podcasts, tens or hundreds of thousands of other podcast that you can go to to satisfy all those multidemensional interests that you have and i don’t think it’s right for me to try toe satisfy all those we have our niche here non-profits and picking the brains of experts to help people in non-profits that’s my mission here on this podcast, there’s plenty of other outlets for youto satisfy all those other interests that you have, so i think i let you down. We’re not going to continue out of the blue. We’re going tow. Focus more on on the core and that is tony’s take two for friday the today’s the ninth of august, the thirty second show of the year. I’m very happy to bring back jane takagi he’s, the principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco he edits the very popular non-profit law blogged dot com and on twitter he is at gi tak gt a k welcome back, jean takagi. Hi, tony it’s. Great to be back. Thank you. I can tell you’re smiling i couldjust always telling you i could tell when you’re smiling. It’s ah it’s. Wonderful to have your energy even from san francisco. I feel it great. I’m conveying that over the phone. You absolutely are. Yes, we started this. Conversation back to board basics two weeks ago, july twenty six so you can go back and listen to that if you missed it, jean and i are going to pick up where we left off, and that was with term limits. Question of whether there should even be term limits. What’s your what’s what’s the advice around that gene. Well, first piece advice tony’s to check with your state laws because individual state laws may vary. My understanding is that under in most states, that there are no term limits, meaning that a boardmember could get reelected onto the board over and over and over again, without any restriction of the law, unless the organization’s by-laws say otherwise. So then it depends upon the individual board thinking about, well, what are the good things about keeping board members on potentially forever? Versace? What is the good thing about limiting how long any boardmember serves so we can get new people onto the board? Increased our diversity on pursue other things and other perspective. So that’s kind of the starting point, but i’m wondering, tony. What? What do you feel about board term limits if you’re serving on the board? I’m i’m pretty pro term limits. Um, in fact, i was just on a phone call this morning with someone who works at the gnu heimans center she’s an instructor there, and i mentioned that you and i are going to talk about this very subject and she said has to be bored limits has to be, yeah, i like them, i think that they they boardmember could be extended if it’s a two year term or three term, you can always extend in addition on additional term tua boardmember but after four or six or maybe even eight years, nine years, i think boardmember tze get a little stale and i’d like a fresh perspective and i think there’s other things that boardmember khun do we don’t kill them just because they leave the board, they don’t die there’s other things there’s other ways they can help that’s such a great point, tiny, and i agree with you a hundred percent, i’m there are exceptions, but i’m very much generally in the pro term limit kapin with without term limits, i think you can encourage very insular boards that get stale as you said, they could become rubber stamp. Boards just going with the flow, you may not be able to attract additional skills and perspectives of the same people are staying on the board, and you’re not bringing new people in boardmember khun get very entitled about their positions and start toe slack off a little bit, and it becomes very difficult to remove long term board members politically speaking into from a sense of relationships and when you have term limits, it really encourages bringing in those new perspectives and thoughts and skills. But the best thing you know is to make sure that when you bring in new people that you’re really engaging them and not just bringing them as tokens so that that becomes very important too. But i like your ideas of, you know, just reelecting, you know, the board members who are performing really well don’t re elect the board members that are performing poorly or unable to attend the majority of the meeting and see exactly how many terms you feel would be sufficient before you could bring in new people. The previous segment was all about keeping boardmember sze engaged from the beginning getting, you know, identifying what their passions are. So these these two segments are discussion, and the the pre recorded panel discussion are fitting together very well. Now i asked each of those three panelists if any of them had board term limits on in in their non-profits and none of them did, and one of them express the concern that their board members are major donors and they don’t want to, you know, the way she said it, they don’t want to say goodbye to them, but i do think there a said there are other things that board members khun do maybe there’s, an advisory board or something that’s, not a fiduciary capacity, legal, legal, legal duty capacity, but still meaningful and not frivolous. Yeah, i think is individuals tonny it’s natural that we like to get our egos stroked a little in there for a major donor to a non-profit to be asked to leave the board can be, uh, a difficult thing for both parties, but i agree again one hundred percent with you let’s find other rules for them. And advice report doesn’t seem to sound prestigious, but maybe emeritus board oh, it’s latin oh, that’s latin brings immediate prestige. Yeah, obviously. Okay. You know, we can we can play around with the titles of the committees and even the titles of the individual board members or former board members if we really value their contribution, we continued to engage them but have been take a term off the board and maybe if we’re not if the board is struggling to recruit and can’t find somebody, teo, take the place of the departing boardmember after term off, maybe that person can come back on again. So that may depend upon each organization but that’s, the that’s, the putin model of boardmember ship you depart and then you come on. All right, all right, well, if we’re going to implement terms, then we should talk about how long those terms should be. What, um, is there is probably not state law guidance on that kind of that. That kind of detail is there. There actually is. So there is among state laws. So some state laws, like in california, we say if you have voting members, the maximum length of a term is four years. If you don’t have voting members who elect the board, the maximum term length is six years and that’s that’s just for one one term, but doesn’t wait. I’m confused by that doesn’t every boardmember have a vote aren’t all board’s voting boards? Well, so in terms of voting members like in the auto club or a homeowner’s association where members who are not board members elect the board members? Oh, i see ok, yeah, so a lot of operations a lot, but many organizations have voting membership structures, which are much, much more administrative, burdensome and difficult to maintain, so i typically don’t recommend that for smaller public charity type organizations, but for other organizations that do have voting members, they’re subject to different, or they may be subject to different term length rules under state laws. So be careful of that there’s also a special on california that i think maybe in other states as well. That says ifyou’re by-laws and articles don’t define what a term length is it’s automatically set that one year, so many organizations get tripped up on that. They didn’t contemplate that in their by-laws and they let boardmember stay on until the board members feel like, you know they want to resign, and you’ve got to make sure that the elections are going on on a regular basis, just sort of on the side, the by-laws air are so important because our don’t state laws have lots of defaults for by-laws being silent on different issues, absolutely. Tony, you’re one hundred percent right? So if if you’re by-laws don’t contemplate something than the default will be, whatever the state could end up with a lot of things you didn’t even know you had, right? And now imagine if you’ve got a board that didn’t do proper elections and you’ve got one boardmember who voted the opposite way from everybody else and then says, well, it doesn’t matter that it was ten against one, this sport isn’t properly compose. I challenge the validity of that action that that one thing can trip up the whole board until they solve that issue. Okay, okay, so we just have, like, a minute and a half or so before a break different term, you know, i guess obviously the shorter the term, the fresher the board is going to be, but you’re going to lose, you know, institutional knowledge. Yeah. And so what is the expectation when you recruit a boardmember if you recruit a new boardmember and you say the term length is one year, they make oh, yeah, easy commitment, but they made me feel very good about serving that one year before they really got you know the organization and develop a director for that organization and then leave after one year feeling fulfilled. Meanwhile, the organization may not be very satisfied with just the one year term. Human three year are probably more common, but some lawyers actually liked the one year term because it allows boards to get rid of or shed. Directors are really not performing very well ever failing to attend meetings, failing to live up to their produce, very duties where it otherwise might be a little bit complicated. Relationship wise toe formally remove. All right, so you can get you could get rid of the trouble quickly on. You could just continue to reappoint them. And i guess if you had one year terms, you probably want they’re to be many possible successive terms allowed. Yeah. You might set your term limits that something like four or five in that case? Yeah. Okay. All right. We’re going to go away for a couple minutes, of course. Jean stays with me and hope that everybody else does, too. And we’ll get some live listener loving as soon as we come back. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Oppcoll have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Gotta live listener love all over the country mesa, arizona golden, colorado in daytona beach, florida live listener loved to you, newport, north carolina and brooklyn, new york live listener love podcast pleasantries gotta send those out, especially to germany, where there’s a big subset of podcast listeners and if you are a podcast listener and you want some podcast pleasantry sent directly to you, let me know who you are, you know there’s ah there’s, facebook, there’s, twitter, there’s a contact page on my block. Let me know where you’re listening from, and i will send you those podcast pleasantries. Always great for the for the live listeners as well. Jean, what if we had a hybrid? What if we what if we make the first term one year? I kind of like this one term one year term, and i’ve really thought about it until you mentioned and we started talking about this topic. What if you had a first term is one year and then successive terms are two years or maybe three years? Could you do that? Yeah, absolutely. Tony there’s there’s actually a lot of room in the by-laws if you decide if the board decides it wants to spend some time to create the right structures. You could do something like, like, one year for your first term. And if everybody gets along in this thing well, to do the second term of two or three years and that might be sort of communicated to prospective board members with the understanding that the first years kind of that test period. Although everybody has their fiduciary duties to live up to. But they hope that they’ll be continued service after after that term. All right, so it also doing my classes, tony? So we could have different classes of attorneys or different classes of directors? Sorry. Lawyers? Yes, yes, everybody. The whole world is attorneys. Everybody knows that the world revolves around the all of them. And then they’re just two or three people out there who are not lawyers. Yeah. Further embarrassed, not you. You’re welcome. So, yes, we could have different classes of directors out there in some classes of directors. Could have a two year term. Some might have a three year term. Some might be prone to term limits of two term limit. Some might be subjected to classes, but how? You gonna decide how you decide who’s in which class, when i have tears and and the senior the three year member is going to look down on the lonely one year members? How you going to make those distinctions? Yeah, really top i mean, this is these air possibilities that you, khun contemplate the sea if they would fit within your organization, but yeah, creating different respect levels for remembers, but absolutely be wrong. So i understand your caution there about forming classes and maybe classes is not the right word now, but still different to you, even tears. Or, you know, however you however you euthanize it. It’s still g. She got a three year term and i only get a one year term. Why is that? We often do that originally with brand new organizations to get staggered board. So if you have a two year term and you start the initial board members everybody in two years, everybody turns off at the same time. But by staggering it, having some served three years in some serve two years and sometimes that’s done just by lottery. Believe it or not, ok, that won’t can get half the board being elected each year, i guess if it’s random, then then i could see you’d overcome at least the personality or ego concerns. All right, but what? So what are your recommendations around term limits? What is gene takagi like? I generally like to the three year term limits, although i’m not opposed to what you just suggested about having a one year initial terms and then two or three year terms after i do think that it’s important to get that commitment from directors, that it’s not just going to be this one year where we’re expecting you to serve for one year and then you can jump off and serve on another board, i’d like to see a longer term commitment and deeper bond created between the organization and its director. Okay, now, when you’re talking to non-profit clients do do they ask you, what should we do on then? Do you deflect that back to them, or how does that how do you finish that? Yeah, it’s a good question, tony, you know, i can’t get to paternal about it and just tell people what the best practices, so we have to make sure that it fits what their individual facts and circumstances are not if they’re three, you know, founders of the organization that want to be on the board and are going to champion other people, the recruitment of other people, perhaps those three founders, they’re goingto have longer terms uh then then the subsequent boardmember is that get brought on, but it really depends because we don’t want to create that class hyre key system that you suggested before, so we’ll have to take a look at stuff like that. Very careful, okay, it xero only is individual and look, look at gene is not a paternalistic attorney, one of the few you said it, so i’m sure he’s not, um, let’s, let’s look att since we’re talking about being on a board and being removed from aboard, should there be automatic removal if you’re not not performing up to snuff? Well, removal for not performing up to snuff is going to require a board decision and that’s going to be governed by state laws well, and even if state law permit sports to remove poor performing directors, practically speaking it’s, so hard to do, especially if that boardmember is also a donorsearch otherwise, support organization in other ways what we like to see is an automatic removal provisions, but only for failing to attend board meetings. So for example, if there was, you know, the board meeting’s every two months, if you fail to attend three successive board meetings without an excuse that had been approved by the board, even either before or after the fact you are automatically removed without further board action, so the board doesn’t actually have to vote to remove you. You’ve just automatically been removed, and they called me allow that. Okay, of course, then you’d want to go a little further and define does attendance mean live attendance in in person? Or can it be attendance by phone? I think it’s the state laws permit by phone than and the by-laws permitted as well, and most state laws, i would say, would permit it by phone, then you’re fine. I would count that as attendance, but if you just failed to show up at all and then it’s something else and it may be whether you’re sick or you’re you’re on sabbatical or have a valid excuse that the board is willing to say where we’re going toe not apply this removal rules because of this exception, but then the board approves to save a person they don’t approve. They don’t vote to remove a person, which is much, much harder. Yes. Ok, i see. All right, just about a minute or so before we go. What about having young people on boards if it’s appropriate to your mission? But in certain states, including new york, they have provisions for having young people onboard. Youth onboarding i think in new york you have to be above sixteen years old, and only organizations that served used or deal with issues like education or juvenile delinquency are allowed to have such boardmember okay, other states there expressly not allowed, you must be eighteen in order to do it, but most states i think forty states are silent on the issue now, it’s great to engage in engagement is the key word again. You to participate with boards and maybe having them entitled toe participate in board meetings is a great idea latto have them on the board and giving them fiduciary duties can be a little bit more problematic if you’re going to do that and there may. Be some rare exceptions where i think that that’s okay, you want to make sure that they’re not tokens and that their contributions are valid and their vote is equal to anybody, anybody? Else’s, vote on that board, you’ve got to be very careful now you can probably be held liable for breaching their fiduciary duties, although that’s not very clear, and if it was really agreed, just perhaps they could, and they can’t sign contracts on behalf of the organization because they probably wouldn’t be enforceable. So be careful about having that emily chan, my former colleague wrote a great block post called youth boardmember khun miners serve on a non-profit board that that i recommend for any organization considering having having young people on their board. Jean, we have to stop there. Is that? Is that blood post at on your block? It non-profit latto block dot com it is, and it was also captured in a non-profit quarterly article as well. Okay, thank you very much, gene. Great, thanks. Durney pleasure you confined gene at that non-profit law blogged or at g tack on twitter next week a fund-raising day interview we’ll start and then maria semple is here she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder the overhead myth show his book i got the three ceos who signed the overhead myth letter are going to be with me on september sixth. That’s, the ceo of better business bureau wise giving alliance guidestar and charity navigator, and ken berger from charity navigator has been on the show before. I would love to have your questions for these three ceo’s these three signers of the overhead myth letter you know you can ask questions on twitter, through facebook or contact page on my blogged love to have your questions for these ceos, please insert sponsor message over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities. Listen each week you can reach me on the block or on twitter or facebook if you want to talk about sponsoring the show, our creative producer was clear meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer. The show’s social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you will be with me next week, friday. One to two eastern at talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com miree i didn’t think that shooting a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. E-giving cubine are you a female entrepreneur? Ready to break through? Join us at sexy body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday said. Known eastern time to learn timpson. Juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Soul. Every thursday ad, men in new york times on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. Hyre

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109: Small Shop Planned Giving & Events Technology – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Posted on September 15, 2012 by Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Claire Meyerhoff, principal of The Planned Giving Agency and creative producer of Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Metoo hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent friday, september fourteenth. Oh, how i hope that you were with me last week. I’d be devastated to hear that you had missed get out and communicate positively. Sharon abbott is the author of mixing it up the entrepreneurs new testament and her strategies apply to small and mid sized non-profits as well. At the next-gen charity conference in two thousand eleven, she and i talked about networking your non-profit recruiting and hiring motivated people and positive communications. Sharon’s e sharon even read my face to tell me what kind of a communicator i am. You see what i put up with for this show face reading and secrets maria simple is the author of panning for gold. Find your best donor prospects now, of course, you know she’s, our prospect research contributor. Last week, she panned for research gold in sec corporate filings this week, small shop planned e-giving claire meyerhoff is principal of the plant e-giving agency. We talk about marketing gift planning in ways that are not same old, same old for small and midsize charities. Claire turns the tables. And interviews me from last year’s national conference on philanthropic planning and events technology. Scott koegler returns to help you with event planning, use free tools to collaborate with the volunteers, employees and vendors who are putting your events together. You know, scott he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news and our technology contributor on tony’s, take two between the guests. I blogged this week about a really helpful analysis of constituent relationship management that cr m software, published by idealware that they published the analysis. I think it’s very good, and i’ll talk about it. Use hashtag non-profit radio. Join the conversation on twitter, you know we take a break right now. What you don’t know is that when we return, it’s clear, meyerhoff, small shop planned, e-giving stay with me. They didn’t think the tubing getting dink dink dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. E-giving cubine joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot or or a nj dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com. Yeah, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz no. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. It just occurred to me. I forgot to say i’m your aptly named host. You probably knew that right now. I have my interview with claire meyerhoff. You know, whereas the creative producer here, but she’s, also the principal of the plant e-giving agency. And we talked about small shop planned e-giving. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We’re in san antonio, texas. The conference is sponsored by the partnership for philanthropic planning. My guest now is claire meyerhoff. Claire is editorial director of the plan giving company. And she also has her own the plan e-giving agency, which she is principal of claire meyerhoff. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much. And, tony, i’ve brought a very special gift for you from san antonio. It is a law badge, texas ranger. And it says, tony, it does say, tony ship a texas ranger. Tony okay, now, now you know why claire is also in her credentials. Creative director for this show. Because she brings little things like this. Now. Yesterday was her birthday. And yet today, she’s bringing me a gift that is just the kind of gal i thank you from my texas ranger badge. Howdy, partner. Put in on that. Looks great. Now everyone will know that you’re a texas ranger so you can go arrest people and put them in george in jail. That’s. True. I could use this for dragon jail. Yes. Now i just need a little set of keys. I always wanted a little set of warden skis for jargon. Jail. Okay, um, so what messages have you been hearing consistently at at the conference? Claire? Well, something i’ve been hearing at the conference is that people really want to take it up a notch. As far as their marketing. We’re hearing that aa lot of people are doing more advertising say within their organizational magazines, and they’ve been doing the same old ads forever, and so they’d like to do so something a little bit different. So that’s something i’ve been hearing, just sort of on the street just from chatting with people. Yeah. Ah. And what are they? They have any intentions or ideas about what the difference is? What everybody wants to do something different. What direction? Well, i think that they just don’t really know their plan giving people they’re not they’re not don draper, they’re not darrin stephens from the mcmann tate advertising agency, so they need a little bit of help and that’s, what i really like to do is doing ads. I just did one for north carolina state university, and when i was talking with my client about what kind of ad they wanted to dio b sanford who’s, thie associate director there, said, you know, i’ve always loved this statistic about how people spend more time planning their vacations than planning their wills. And he said, that’s a that’s, a great thing. What if we did something with that and then drove people to your website to the will planning tool that you have s o choose one thing and then geared towards that? So we came up with an added so it’s, a woman on the beach he’s, you know, in her fifties and she’s cool and she’s on the beach, and it says two hundred forty three number of hours she spent planning her vacation than its xero number of hours spent planning her estate and then the copy, something like she has everything she needs for her dream vacation, but she doesn’t have a will she’s not alone, sixty five percent of americans don’t have a will, but now’s a great time to start planning goto our website and in a little messaging kind of like and while you’re there, you know, leave us a gift, too. So it’s not about planned giving it’s not about the bequest it’s about the donor, so that really, truly is donor-centric to speak to them and an issue that they might be having in a clever way also in a clever way that gets their attention because you have to remember that in a magazine, whether it’s for your university or your favorite non-profit you’re kind of flipping through it, flipping through it, flipping through it, and something has to catch your attention, and it may not be the same old messaging about leaving, leaving a legacy that might not catch the person’s attention. All right, so let’s, use that as a segue way clarinet wants to ask me some questions, so we’re actually going to ah, we’re going to change positions and turntables. Claire is going to be behind the board, but don’t touch anything here i won’t touch is very technical, very technical. Now claire has a background in radio. She knows i’m making fun of her. She knows more about the board than i do. I really need you to switch. We’re going one of you up there, let’s, take off your headphones were gonna sweep. Ok, make a lot of noise, things switching, switching now, amit buy-in okay, bubbles well, you can adjust them. I just okay. Four minutes into the program. This is clear. And now you can see what they can see my badge. Better to come closer to my texas ranger underside. Okay, this’s clear. Meyerhoff in the special guest host here at tony martignetti non-profit radio. My guest today is tony martignetti, who is one of the greatest hyre teachers in the world of plan giving, i think because when i started in the business, i had a lot of questions, and tony was so generous with his time, i call him up and say, you know, really, what is it? A charitable remainder trust? Tell me all about that. So you were always so helpful, so i’d like to take this opportunity to thank you. You’re welcome. It’s a pleasure. Thank you. That’s like the greatest. I don’t know one of the greatest let’s not get carried away, but it’s a pleasure to help the community. And you yes, thank you. Thank you, here’s something that that i have really noticed being in plan giving. I’ve become sort of evangelical about it everywhere i go if i run into someone who’s from a non-profit i immediately asked them so. Do you have some sort of a plan giving program? Do you get requests? What do you do? And what i hear a lot of times is we’re not big enough for that. We’re not big enough for that, and i say, no, no, no it’s really easy, and i start to tell them about how they can start a basic plan e-giving program, but i can only take it so far because i just know about sort of the communication and the messaging, so if you’re a small non-profit a small organization and you want to sort of plan giving program and you do a little marketing, you put it in your newsletter and, gosh, someone actually calls you and says, yes, i have made you the beneficiary of my retirement plan, ok or something. What sort of the next step that the small non-profit has to take two actually accept these gifts. Okay, first thing is say thank you. We can never say thank you enough, but but the first, whether it’s a phone call or it comes in by reply card on ah dahna mailing that you did or whichever you want to say thank you very much talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow no more it’s time for action. Join me. Larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower. We’ll discuss what you’re born, teo you society, politics, business and family it’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com every tower is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening tuesday nights nine to eleven it will make you smarter. Hey, hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com if you have big ideas and an average budget tune. Tony martin. Any non-profit radio we dio. I’m jonah helper, nari team in co founders of next-gen charity metoo now, in your your hypothetical, it was an ira gift. Is that right in my hypothetical? Okay, all right, so we’ll stick with the i r a gift. So, um, we want to make sure the donor understands that they are now going to be part of the close community of our charity, and the ideal way to do that is through a recognition society, which is just a way of another. Another way of saying thank you. So i hope that the charity would have a small and it’s a small charity. So a small recognition society that might just be eight or ten people who have remembered the charity in some way in their will or ira or other estate plan method. But we want to say thank you consistently. We don’t want to say thank you at the time we find out and we do that through our recognition society. I hate the name, legacy society, heritage circle. Oh, my god. It’s so generic. There are thousands of heritage circles. Name your society. You have free reign like you. Name it. Anything you want. Name it for, um, something that’s iconic to your organisation. It could be a person. It could be a gn animal. It could be, in some cases, maybe a bigger charity. Maybe it’s a building or i have a client. Where? It’s the bell tower society. Because people used to meet at the bell tower that’s a college campus different than the small charity, but make it unique to your organization. And this is really the great part for marketing. Because if you create the society and you name it, it gives you something to talk about your announcing it. You have this now. So let’s say in the past you have received a couple of bequests and you just had them and there’s no sort of organization of it. Well, you’ve come up now with the society so let’s say it’s called the elm tree society because you have a beautiful elm tree on the front lawn of your building is the elm tree society. And in your next newsletter at your next event you can talk about that we have launched. We have created the elm tree society it’s so special it’s this it’s that it’s the other thing. If you do x y and z u will be in the elm tree society. So it gives you something to talk about and that’s, the key to marketing is that you need to have something to talk about. Just the fact that you exist isn’t enough. You need to have some news, something that’s new going on to talk about. And i love the elm tree society too, because then when you have a little recognition lunch you can have little leaves on the tree leaves on the tables. On the tree is deep rooted, deep rooted in our work and and our stories and here’s a story from the tree it’s okay, i go too far, but the the the point is you make it something iconic and, yes, it gives you something to talk about. And i love the image of a deep rooted tree, too. I just that even though it’s just and she comes up with ease off the top of her head is that remarkable stories of great. And speaking of coming up with things off off the top of your head, i was visiting a friend of mine for her fiftieth birthday in massachusetts in this in february, and her husband is a financial planner and he is also the treasurer for his church, and then he goes, oh, you workin plan giving? We need to do that at my church. We don’t have anything he says. These people are dying and we’re not getting anything. And i said, well, are you asking for them? Are you are you marketing the plan gifts? And he says, no, we’re not doing anything to sit down. So within about fifteen minutes we laid it all out. We started with the society we named the society after a tree that’s on the on the really old tree on the front lawn in the church. So we named it after the tree, and then i said, well, now, now you have to come up with, like, a way to talk about it. So do you have any recently realized plan gifts? And he said, yes, we have got some money last year and we used it. The intent was they wanted to upgrade all the handicapped accessible stuff in the church. So that’s claim i said, do you have a church member who is benefitting from that and says, yes, there’s this woman and she wasn’t coming to church for a long time because it was hard for her toe access the church that’s fantastic. So i said, do you think she’d be game? And he said, yes, i said, okay, you get her, you get a photo of her act using this handicap access, you get a great quote from her talking about how wonderful it is now that she can go back to church. You put this in your newsletter and you talk about the fact that this all happened because of a bequest, and that gives you the opportunity to talk about bequests and you’re new society also, the added bonus. Now you have a way to talk about bequests with the woman who has been benefitting from the situation because you have asked her to take her photograph. So now she’s, a new french, is kind of in on it and that’s the key thing is to kind of get people in on it so you can make a plan giving program at a kitchen counter on a sunday morning over a bagel and coffee. Yes, small non-profits should not be discouraged at all thinking that they that they can’t do it. It’s just a matter of having simple conversations like you’re describing or putting something simple in your newsletter and you start with the simplest of gifts that one the ones you and i are talking about the bequest maybe go to the ira if that continues after this year. But charitable bequests just a gift in your will alongside the children and grandchildren and your spouse there’s a gift for us. It does not to be a large gift that’s just that’s the easy way to start a plan giving program and by the way, your story i don’t even i don’t know any of the players, and it still makes my eyes water a little bit because it’s such a touching story it’s so poignant. Those are the kinds of tender things that we want to be able to share with others to encourage them to do the same. Well, it’s, because we it’s kind of like we know the secret this secret way to raise money for your organization that’s so easy and a lot of people don’t know it. So at the church, they don’t they know about if they know about the quest, but they don’t know that. It’s something that they can go out and ask for, they think it’s something that just has to fall in their lap. So that’s what’s so important about talking about it and talking about it in a way that features the benefits of the plan gift and why it’s good now rather than why it’s good later, and i think that that too many people in the plan giving industry talked too much about this idea of a legacy that people are sitting around thinking about leaving a legacy and how important a legacy is. I don’t think people really wake up in the morning and think about leaving a legacy. I think that when i talk to people that have done plan gifts, they’re doing it for the here and now they’re going, you know what? This is something i can do. It makes me feel good, it’s good right now, i know i’m helping, i know i’m doing a good thing, and i’ve never heard a donor ever really say it’s because i want to leave a legacy, you know? No, i don’t you’re right, i don’t hear that that often, i think people who will get to that age, you know, are thinking about what they’re going to leave behind, but i think it’s when it when they’re thinking about that it’s not so much for about charity, it’s more about we’re going to leave behind for my family that in terms of the legacy, i think that’s more family oriented, but you’re right, a lot of fundraisers, air thinking about our marketing leave your legacy, and i don’t think people think in that respect for charity, for charitable purposes no, no, they’re doing it because they want to do something they want to do something smart and savvy and cool right now, so if if you are ah let’s, just say i’m a loyal donorsearch to a animal shelter in my town and i’ve been giving to them for fifteen years, and i’m having a conversation with someone on the staff and they say, you know, we now have this society where it’s wait are accepting plant gifts and it’s this and that and here’s, some of the things other people have done and it’s going to be great because we’ll be able to do so much and this per yes and focusing i’m sorry, but focusing on what the gift does, what the outcome, what the impact is how, how this is helping. Is it saving a life? Is it rescuing on animal is what’s the what’s the outcome that the gift creates? Not so much the focus which i see too often is this was a charitable lead unit trust which had a provisioned for generous state tax implications. And you know it’s, not about the taxes. You do it about the do it about the the great story that this that this gift creates because it has saved a life educated a child rescued ah rescued an animal given shelter to someone who was, who was abused, what’s what’s the gift doing and also, i think. And the other part, the donor part of is what can i do? And it’s an easy way to be a quote philanthropist like you think only rich people can make significant gifts and do something really sincere. But you khun do that too. And when i’ve talked to some people about it, i said, look, you know, you’ve been you give one hundred dollars a year to this organization, but if you made this organization half the beneficiary of that ira that you have sitting around that has twenty thousand dollars in it and let’s say something happened to you tomorrow, your organization would get ten grand that’s a lot of money, they could do a lot with that. Ten grand of people call, really? I didn’t know that, and i think when people realize that they can be a philanthropist, that they could be someone to make a significant impact. That kind of floats there boat it’s definitely and it’s definitely not just for high net worth people with big assets. It’s ah it’s an ideal way of giving for very people of very modest means, but your example, ten thousand dollars, five thousand dollars almost anybody could leave five thousand dollars in their state in some method, whether it’s, ira or by will it’s a it’s just outstanding for people of very modest means to do big things and be philanthropists and people also want to be savvy. They want to know that their money is is being maximized so let’s just say they they have some life insurance they’ve had around for a long time, and now they’re divorced from that spouse that they bought the life insurance for their children are grown. Their son is a doctor. Their daughter is a lawyer and they don’t need this life insurance policy anymore. What’s, anybody going to do with this five hundred thousand dollars on this guy’s life and he’s he’s, sixty five years old. So here’s this life insurance policy, he could give that two his charity? Yes, that or yes, he can actually transfer the ownership or just make them a beneficiary of it. Yeah. Ah. In plan giving me talk about the what you’re describing, the excess policy, like somebody may have taken out a policy to help children in case they had untimely death. Or to make sure the mortgage got paid or the you know, college educations got paid for if they had an untimely death. Now those things are all done. The mortgage is paid or substantially paid. Kids are educated. There is this policy like you describe that we took out first purpose. And now that purpose is fulfilled. Um, that is a great gift. A zay said could just be a beneficiary. Just just named the charity. All they need is your your name and your tax id number and you can put that in like a a two cent in sidebar on a newsletter include us in your own life insurance policy, here’s our tax id and legal name and that’s all they need. And if you want to write a little bit more, you could talk about sort of the scenarios of it. So because people want to do the right thing with this assets. So let me ask you if you had a life insurance policy and let’s say it’s it’s it’s paid up and it’s it’s five hundred thousand dollars. What else could you if you didn’t give it to charity? What could you do with it right now? Could you? You could cash it in, but then what would you pay tax on it? Or you could cash it in? I don’t know that you pay tax. No, i don’t think you pay income tax on it. If you if you surrender it now for its cash surrender value that’s an option, you could just keep it in name some other family member of beneficiary of the death benefit there’s, not there’s. Not really great options, esso. I think charity is. Should at least be a part of it. You know, you can you can still do eighty percent for family and twenty percent for charity. And that doesn’t have to be one charity could be for charities and each get five percent of that that remaining twenty. So you know that ah, and that’s the way to of overcoming the objection you might hear. Fund-raising right here, i’d like to help you, but i have other charities i want to help also, but one life insurance policy can help multiple charity’s one will khun do that if we’re talking about something bigger, like charitable trust, you know, those couldn’t help multiple charities, but keeping it simple. Will ira life insurance? Any of those three can help multiple charities. Just make sure that at the end, when you add it all up, the percentage is equal one hundred, and it might just be five percent for charity or ten. And in the rest for family. Always to be thinking, you know, when you hear oh, i’d like to help you. But there are others too. These airways that a person can help. Lots of charities now being the ah the ah! This not exactly host right now, but i’d recognize we have to wrap up like in thirty seconds or so if this is going to fit in the show like around nineteen between nineteen, nineteen, half in twenty minutes so you just took ten seconds of it, so let’s, just wrap it up here i’m clear meyerhoff with tony martignetti and we are the co host today for this very moment moment of non-profit radio tony martignetti non-profit radio, where you will find a fabulous solutions for your small non-profit big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. This is texas ranger tony thanking clare, thank you very much for the for the switch on dh sharing some time with me and ah ah, as always for being creative director, creative producer of twenty martignetti non-profit radio and you’re listening to our coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning in san antonio, texas. The conference, of course, hosted by the partnership on philanthropic planning that’s my interview with claire meyerhoff, very grateful to her for that right now we take a break and when we return it’s tony’s take two and then scott koegler is with us for events, technology stay here. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve, save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot order, or h a n j dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? 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And what i love about this is that all the systems that they review cost four thousand dollars or less in the first year. So i just think it’s a really valuable resource. And i wanted to point out to you and you’ll find the link to that analysis on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com. And that is tony’s take two for friday, september fourteenth, the thirty ninth show of the year. Scott koegler is with me now. We’re talking about event technology. Scott, how are you? I’m doing great. Tony, how are you? I’m very well, thanks for joining me today way all know? Scott he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it n p tech news. Dot com event technology. I’m not sure people think of using technology, tio support their events and some people are already doing it. But what what’s out there, that’s that’s helpful? Well, you know, there there’s a bunch of stuff. Probably the basic is, uh, facebook, you know, just setting up your your event as it has kind of something that you show on facebook and you can invite people there, but there are some very specific applications typically their cloud based, you know, they you don’t install them that’s early on your computer, you access them just like you would facebook and, uh, on then you set up your events there, you can invite people to it. You can sell tickets to it. You could track show photographs. You can all kinds of, uh, you know, just anything you’d like to do to promote and track your that. Okay. And so i assume this includes registration and ticketing things like that. Exactly. Exactly. Everything you typically do, kind of at the site. In fact, there are some applications. Portions of applications that the actual walk around during the that and can record interviews, take pictures, things like that. So it becomes full sweets of applications that you use free calls now? Yeah. Good night. Over. Right? And then even even follow-up, i presume, right? Some some will help you with follow-up notice messages. Well, certainly. Of course, the whole purpose of events usually is fund-raising or preliminary to fund-raising. And so you certainly want to know who came what they did. If you have some ability to record something about them in bio or maybe the kind of interests that they have, you want to be able to follow up with. So some of these things air are connected to social media systems or email kind of systems. So you may be able to send out updates in both of those ways. Or maybe all of them. Okay, while we’re teasing a little bit now, what’s, uh, let’s, get into some of these. What do you have first? Well, there were a couple and you mentioned one. That right? Which is a really, really popular with very powerful. Okay, yeah, i just you know, i only know it because, you know, occasionally i’ll get an event bright invitation to, like a cocktail party or networking or some like that. But it’s it’s more robust than that. Uh, it’s it’s. Very powerful. It allows you to set up your events. It has, as you mentioned just a minute ago. Ticketing function so you can actually sell your tickets through it right online if you if you want to have tickets. And now, if you have an event that is based on donations and we want to accept proof pre accept donations prior to the event that you could do that as well, okay? And this is what i’m sorry, but this is a free one. It is free. Yeah. Ok, go ahead. Please continue. I think that they i’m not sure, but i think that they actually take a piece of your tickets. That’s where they get some revenue. Okay, if you’re selling tickets, okay. Okay. On dh that’s ah, eventbrite is b r i t e dot com eventbrite dot com. Okay, anything more you want to tell us about event, right? Um, you know, it connects up with with a couple of social media sites. Certainly. You can connecting through facebook in those kind of things, and another one you mentioned also hub spot, which really isn’t kind of social media, it’s more of a kind of a management, you know who said what about what? So it’s, kind of after the fact for social media on that actually does cost money so that’s one that right probably want to get into later on hub spot is really marketing ah, marketing sweet, and it just has a an event bright module, they’re you know, they’re connected to event, right? That’s it hub spot dot com is one. What else? What else is in your current article on this? Well, yeah, there’s a couple of interesting ones. One is, of course, a jew. And i’m sure that many of the listeners know that sage as a non-profit management just, uh, kind of an all around piece of application that allows you to keep track of your daughters, your prospects, your events and pretty much accounting and anything else. So they have a module also that helps to manage events and, you know, it’s. Tough to say this, but pretty much all these do a variety of the same kinds of functions, so when you think about managing the that, you know, they’re all going to take registrations, they’re all gonna allow people that teo to register, get a map to where your that is make comments, those kind of things, of course, sages is an application, cos so they’re going to charge for for their application. I i don’t know exactly what their charges are, but they know they’re going to be they’re gonna charge. Okay, interesting, you’re the article on this that you have it and p tech news dot com mentions a small organization that’s just think they’re thirty to twenty, twenty and thirty year olds, and they’re talking about just fifteen people coming to their average event. But then you also mentioned an organization that runs a much bigger events, right? Right? The jazz foundation and neo-sage so, you know, if you have, the resource is and you have the clientele, the constituents that are doing kind of significant funding for you, it’s certainly pays teo be able to get into one of the more more robust and something that actually integrates in with your they’re counting on the other functions, such as sage. Okay, okay. There’s there’s, another one to please. But i will mention here and, um, that is an impact. A m p a c i know it’s an acronym. Hang on one second way. Could make some of your god. I will jam, jam, pack and association management now, i don’t know. I was thinking american pacific, maybe for for pacific island there’s or something, but whatever it is and and packed negotiation management, uh, package back. Oh, is it a m p a k or a m p f c c dot com. Okay, so we have just about two minutes before before i break. Tell us about impact. Okay. It’s. Similar in some ways, neo-sage and that it’s pretty much an all around kind of a system to manage your organization. But this comes in module so he can actually start relatively small, although still relatively small, is going to run about nine hundred dollars a month. So you are going to be fairly well bust, kind of an organization to use this. Okay, but it does have, as i said, different modules that you can piece together, and one of those is any that management system and those plug in to its accounting functions plugs into profiling systems for your donors, and also connects into, uh, social media. So i think the lesson here is that if you could get away with something like event, right, which was really, really great job. But it doesn’t particularly integrate with financial management rights of the size that you have a new immigrated financial management system than something like an impact. Or sage is really going to do a great job point, because it keeps everything in one place. Okay, we’re going to take a break. And when we when we return, we’ll see what else scott has for us. And also, just talk about some of the the simple, er management tools like, like google docks and drop box for your events. So stay with me and scotty. Told you. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation? Then you need a spire athletic consulting stop, second guessing yourself. Move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it, aspire, athletic, insulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Scott and i are talking about events technology. Scott there’s, another group that i wanted to just mention is meetup dot com depending on what type of event you’re planning, meet up could be helpful. Meetup it’s great it’s not particularly non-profit oriented, right? Although there, you know, there are plenty organizations in there that they’re kind of loosely organized and that’s kind of what it’s for is if you haven’t interest like i imagine their side, it belongs to a wine meet up uh, and there it’s anybody conjoined? Of course, you have some control over who you allowed to join, but it’s it’s typically location based. So look for people in the area with the same kind of interest they sign up and then you are you create what’s aptly called a meet up, which is, you know, a place in a time, okay? And you can add details to it has specifically invite people and you can track it to the comments on it. So it’s, very nice. I don’t know they’re actually his, eh? Ah financial component to it that allows you to collect these if you have a particular like if you’re going to a restaurant or something like that? The marriage make a reservation. You can make reservations. If you also want to collect fees. You khun sell a ticket or not? Sure. What’s called problem with something like a ticket. All right. Yeah. That’s a great one of this horrific. And now we know that you’re in teena file. I am. I am. What is your what’s? Your favorite wine? Do you have? It is possible to say you have a favorite, you know that there are also different. I had one this weekend that was particularly good. And it’s called vincent. Now you’d think that would be van gogh. But it’s actually not expensive motorcycle. Is this is this motor oil? Or is this wine we’re talking about is much better than the movie by a guy named mark ryan. Mark ryan winery and it’s called the vincent. Is it a red or white or blush it the red? Ok, sabelo okay. All right. Yeah. So it’s uh, particularly right, we might. We might have this into our conversations from month to month. I’m a i’m a drop a surprise question on you about wine or something. Ok, well, not that i know what i’m talking about? Me so it’s. Not like a test. You could say anything. I would. I am not a someone, marie, but i do enjoy, you know, kind of sitting next to them and say, all right, let’s, talk about dropbox because dropbox, simple file sharing this could be really helpful for events. People in different offices, or even maybe people working from home or even in the same office. File sharing. Sure, sure, absolutely. Drop box. I just give a brief about what that is essential. You install little application on your computer and you drag files into it, just as you would drag files into your own filing system on your computer and the system automatically copies that file up to a cloud based repository. And then you can invite people to share the file of files that you placed there. It’s especially good for large sounds like photographs and things like that, but it works just fine for documents and the other kind of things. But having said that, uh, there, too, to systems that have, uh i’ve been around for a while, but there recently kind of made a play against drop oxide. Is google google doc’s? Sure, which is probably even better suited for for meetings and events because you can also put your calendar up there and i’m sure the calendar you can share documents, spread, shoots those kind of things, and then when somebody opens those documents on their own computer, they actually used the google docks formatting functions, right? So the differences and i just wanna point out the differences and drop box you’re using standard file formats like dot doc and dot excel for excel spreadsheets and etcetera. You using whatever you’re accustomed to, but in google using their their document a system, right? And the advantage with google is that, you know, i may not have word french someone computer, right? So what do i do when i get the file? You know, struggling so with google docks, you know, you can you can upload, uh, i’ll say power point, i’ll go there google’s presentation files, right? And then you could actually view them in the google presenter. So, you know, it’s kind of a a full system where dropbox is really great at sharing any kind of file that you want to, but you may not. Be ableto use it once you download that file, and with google, you can import files that you’ve already created. I didn’t, i didn’t. I didn’t mean to lead people to think that you have to start fresh with their with their blank spreadsheet or something you can import, and it will convert it into therefore into the google format. Sure, and you have the option of either converting, and we’re not converting it, so you could e yeah, you could take a powerpoint files just up with powerpoint files, and it stays a power point, okay, i realise it or converted, so, you know, get some options there, and then you’ll find that it’s a docks docs dot google dot com, but you have to have google account to use these, don’t you? I don’t know if you have to have a google account to use to be a recipient, right to share have somebody invite you to share, right? I share documents with people that i didn’t know whether or not they have a right to be the creator of a document. You certainly have an account, right? And to invite other people, okay, we have just two. Minutes left. You said there’s. Another one. That’s making a play. Uh, yeah. Area the old player microsoft recently put up outwork dot com, which you’re familiar with. Outlook. The application outlook dot com is the online version of outlook that runs on your desktop. So there’s a whole bunch of things about that. We might talk about that next time. Because that’s kind of interesting it’s it’s, i’m gonna say it’s loosely based on hotmail but it’s much more like what you experience on your desktop. This also includes a file stating and file sharing as part of that whole suite. So, look, look for microsoft there. They may not have been, you know, major name, a new application development, but they seem to be coming strong. Okay, interesting. And outlook dot com is cloud based, right? It is crowd based, just like dropbox and google. Okay, yeah, why don’t we? Why don’t we a plan that for the next month? All right, that sounds good. What do you want to talk about there? Okay. And overviewing outlook. Dot com. Okay. Anything you want to leave us with around event technology in last minute? Uh, you know, the biggest thing is, you know, planning the event and use one of these applications to organize it because it’s one thing to just say they were gonna have a party, it’s something else to say it’s going to be here and we want you because of your special skills and tony, you’re assigned to bring wine. Ok, alright. My favorite wine is called is, uh, is a vineyard named list cerini okay, it’s been around for a long, long time. Very well known. Little little tart, slightly target, but it has subtle notes. All right, scott can go. Thank you very much. Thanks, tony. Take always a pleasure. Thank you. Next week? I don’t know, because i’m recording today’s show three weeks in advance, so but you know, it’ll be a good show. You know that that’s, why that’s, why you’re with us every week. You can keep this conversation going on linkedin. Post your follow-up questions, including wine for scott if you have them and the guests will answer in the linked in group i host a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy it’s called fund-raising fundamentals, and it is a ten minute monthly podcast devoted to fund-raising it’s on itunes. You also find it on the chronicle of philanthropy website. If you like this show, i hope you will check out fund-raising fundamentals continuing to wish you good luck the way performers do around the world more often than break a leg upper singers around the world. So this is an international one today use toi toi toi toward off a spell or a hex. And this imitates the spitting sound sound of spinning on somebody like last week’s three three remember from norway but the norwegians only spitting twice there. Very clean people. Look, look at them. They look clean, they look wholesome. Their country is spotless because they’re only spitting twice but are everywhere else. We’re spinning three times on dh. It used to be said that saliva actually had demon banishing powers so internationally on, especially for opera singers internationally spinning three times over somebody’s head or shoulder is a gesture toward off evil spirits. But spitting on them is assault in probably under most criminal codes, so don’t hit them. And as you’re doing this, i wish you toy toy toy for the week. Our creative producers, claire meyerhoff. Hard to believe we have one. But janice meyer. Janice taylor is helping me with all these international greetings from performance artists. Sam liebowitz is our line producer shows social media is regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. You should be here next friday. Went to two p m eastern at talking alternative dot com. Hyre hyre. I think that’s a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get me anything. Nothing. Cubine hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Told you.

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076: Looking At Giving, 2011 & 2012 and Breaking The Mold In Traditional Endowment Design – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Posted on January 27, 2012 by Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Rob Mitchell, CEO of Atlas of Giving

Kathryn Miree, president of Kathryn W. Miree & Associates and Turney Berry, attorney at Wyatt Tarrant & Combs

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Durney hello and welcome to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio your aptly named host it’s january twenty seventh twenty twelve i hope you were with me last week because what you would have heard and if you weren’t, this is what you missed revel in real estate. Chase magnuson of george washington university and alan thomas from the american college had small and midsize non-profits in mind, as they described howto identify prospects for real estate gif ts also how to cultivate, solicit and negotiate thes gif ts what is the due diligence that’s required to keep your charity safe from a crummy real estate gift? Also board oversight basics jean takagi are regular legal contributor and principal of the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco to find oversight and explained how it should be executed to protect your charity and your board members, and that it was the first part of a conversation that will continue in february. This week, looking at giving twenty eleven and twenty twelve with me will be robbed. Mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving to talk about two thousand eleven’s giving by sector source and maybe even state, and we’ll also look ahead to predictions for this year, then breaking the mold in traditional endowment design from the national conference on philanthropic planning last year, catherine miree, consultant and attorney attorney berry look at alternatives to endowment design that are rooted in lawsuits, latto changes and difficulties implementing donor for pus is that have arisen with the way down. Mints are traditionally set up between the segments, as always, tony’s take to my block this week. You don’t need the fancy stuff for your plant e-giving the most sophisticated gifts are not necessary to have a very successful and appropriate plan giving program for your charity. I thought this was going to be last week’s blawg, but i messed up with some of the pre recordings, so look for that this week and i’ll say more about it on tony’s take two between the guests. We’re live tweeting this show as we do every week use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter this show is supported by g grace corporate real estate services i’m very grateful for their support right now we take a break, then i’ll be joined by rob mitchell of atlas of giving. And we’re going to talk about looking at giving last year and this. So stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call us ed to one, two, nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom, too. One, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m joined now by rob mitchell, ceo of atlas of giving, which you’ll find it atlas of giving dot com. Rob has twenty nine years working in and around non-profits as a fundraiser and executive and also a consultant, he is, as i said, ceo of atlas, of giving atlas e-giving measures analyzes and forecasts us charitable, giving monthly by sector source and state. I’m very pleased that his work brings him to the show. Robert, you’re welcome. Thanks. Tony is good to be with you. It’s. A pleasure to have you, um, tell us about the atlas of giving methodology to do these look backs and also predictions of charitable giving. I’ll be happy to the atlas of giving started. Actually, when i was a practitioner, i was chief development officer of the american cancer. So society i was named in that position in june of two thousand won our fiscal year started at the society in september one and then september eleventh the world changed for all of us. Our ceo called me that day and asked me what this meant for giving at the american cancer society acid john i couldn’t possibly know, but they can’t be good, and i’m just not sure how bad it’s going to be or how long it’s going to last. A year later, we felt very pleased that we had finished a bubble of flat, and when describing our success to our board, one of the board members said, well, how do you know you did so well? And we had information from a handful of other charitable organizations nationwide charity organizations, i mentioned those in a the boardmember said, well, that’s, just anecdotal information, isn’t there a benchmark that you can compare our results too? Well, the truth is that a benchmark existed, but it was only annual and it only came out six. It only comes out six months after the calendar year ends. You’re referring to giving yusa yes, i am. So that conversation bothered me, and then this boardmember followed up with me later and said, you know, it strikes me that charitable giving is tied to certain factors in the economy, and if you can figure out what those factors are, you might be able to measure charitable giving on a more timely basis so way initially, while i was still at the society. I had my research team there look into this and other things took priority. Bottom line is we didn’t we didn’t have the time or the energy to pursue it very long moved on to other things. I left this when i left the society in two thousand nine. This was one of the things that was troubling me that i really wanted to get a direct answer to i stayed with you thie idea stayed with you for eight years. It did it did. And so, um, my, uh, we started a company called philanthropy max, and one of the first things that my business partner and i decided to do was to pursue this. So we hired a team of twenty five phd level researchers and analyst and we gave them some variables to look at. They added to the list, the list they looked at was over seventy different economic and demographic variables and and forty two years of published annual e-giving data um, so that’s what they had to work with, they came back a few weeks later, and they said, well, this is remarkable. We have identified what factors are involved what? What economic and demographic factors are involved with us charitable giving. And we’ve developed an algorithm and we check our algorithm against forty two years of published data. We have a correlation rate of ninety nine and a half percent. And the good thing, tony, was that those out of those seventy variables that we started with it boiled down to just a handful and those air variables that are reported monthly or quarterly. So we had a way finally to measure charitable giving as it occurs in the united states. But that was aggregate giving, and that was we started giving away the atlas of e-giving in two thousand ten, and it was just the the national number, the aggregate national number. But we did it on a monthly basis. And by the way, we were also able to create a forecast based on those variables and the formula that we developed. But we wanted to go further. We wanted to have information monthly on sectors so arts, education, religion so forth, their eight different sectors and sources, individuals, foundations, corporations and the quest. And then we also really wanted to add to it states so we sent the research team that assignment, and they came back a few weeks later, and we were able to crack the code all with, uh, what we call up, um, correlation percentages well above ninety percent for everything and most cases well above ninety five percent. So a sense. So essentially, what we have is the ability to measure charitable giving as it occurs in the u s by sector source and stayed on a monthly basis and then forecast to up up to a year in advance. All right, we’re going to take a break, and when we come back, we want to talk about some of these variables that are in there, and i don’t know if we can get you to reveal the number fromthe seventy, but we’ll see how far we can go. And then, of course, we do want to talk about what e-giving look like last year and what it’s ah forecast to look like this year. So rob mitchell will join me after the break. He’ll stay with me, and i hope you do too. They couldn’t do anything to get independent thing. You’re listening to the talking alternate network waiting to get in you could are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall. This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Altum hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr robert panna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Duitz welcome back. We are looking at giving two thousand eleven in two thousand twelve with rob mitchell, the ceo of atlas, of giving rob, what are some of the factors that were identified from these this big group of seventy before i get into specifics? One thing i will tell you, tony, is that the economic and demographic factors that affect one part of giving aren’t not the same ones that affect other parts of e-giving ok, things like gifts from individuals, uh, have a have a different set of factors than then gifts from corporations. The formula for the education sector is very different from the formula for the art sector. So the sum of the eiken without giving away any secrets. Sausage, everybody. I think everybody for years has understood that there is a relation. There has been a relationship between gross domestic product in the us and charitable giving their other factors that that are involved in different things, and they involve everything from stock prices, toe home prices to earnings to consumer confidence. There there there are a lot of different there are many different factors, but interestingly free sector for each source for each state. The number of factors affecting those various things are actually a pretty small. They’re different from sector to sector source to sort the source, the source and state to state. But each one of those the formula, the factors involved in each of those individual formulas is a pretty small number. And so now are your algorithms, um, patented is that is that appropriate to patent something like this way thought so and way. Obviously, when we crack the code, we rushed right down to a patent lawyer. And the long and the short of it was, he said, your coca cola and we said, what does that exactly mean? And he said, well, if you if you publish, if you if you patent something, it has to be published and even in the application process there’s some things which are revealed. And he said that would give it away. So coca cola, believe it or not, has never patented their formula for coca cola over the years. So, uh, on legal advice, we were advised that in this case, for this particular type type of formula, it would not be wise for us to patent it. And you had an honest attorney who said you don’t need my help, pretty much ok, i love that alright, so that’s let’s dive into some of these numbers overall? What? What are the conclusions from two thousand eleven? And then we’ll look, you know, we look at some specifics, but generally, well, i think the biggest story for two thousand eleven is that we experienced a real resurgence in giving in two thousand eleven, and the resurgence wass far outpaced the growth in the economy. This is one of those years where the folks who have tried to make strong correlations between gdpr charitable giving are going to be a little off quit because e-giving grew and two thousand eleven, two, three hundred forty’s over three hundred forty six billion dollars that’s a seven and a half percent increase over the two thousand ten number. Now, when you consider the fact that and the final numbers, they’re not in on gdpr for for two thousand eleven, but when they do come in, they’re going to be some where it’ll be probably in a range of between one and a half and one point eight percent growth in gdp, so you can see the charitable giving really did well, and there were some there was some important reasons for that. Okay, well, um let’s hold off on some of the reasons, i think because i want to get into some more of the conclusions and but before we do that, even what i think is kind of exciting is we don’t have to wait six months from the end of the year for for the giving us a report to come out. No, the in fact, the report is posted on our alice e-giving website right now. So, um, we have we have we offer three products. The first one is called out with standard and it is available for free with a subscription. And then we have atlas, professional and that’s everything monthly by sector sources state. Then we have we have something called atlas custom. Our technology enables us to build custom benchmarking and predictive models for individual non-profits to identify what particular economic and demographic factors effect they’re giving. But because your methodology is so much different than e-giving yusa, which is based on surveys, we have something much quicker than then. June, i guess, is when that typically comes. Out yes and way think are we think our technology has other advantages as well? There are other than giving us say, there are other indexes and surveys and blackbaud has won, yeah, and most of those air based on, um, a group of customers that sort of fit a profile, and they’re not necessarily representative of all sectors for of very small charities or very large charities. Um, the survey kind of methodology is important, and i don’t i don’t want to diminish the fact that surveys air important, but there are things related to my background which i know happen in the survey process, which can be troubling over time. And when i was at the american cancer society, just as an example, as a matter of board policy, we we did not disclose our e-giving information on a contemporary basis. Of course, we filed the nine nineties and those sorts of things did annual reports, but in terms for competitive reasons are bored felt like it was it was important for us not to participate in those kinds of survey let’s. Look let’s, look at the prediction for two thousand twelve you’re predicting ah, just under four. Percent growth yes, the current forecast is two thousand twelve will finish the year with with about three hundred and sixty billion dollars in total e-giving and that would be a three point nine percent increase over two thousand eleven. But like any forecast, and we update our forecasts each month, right? So as these as the as the factors or the are reported each month, because you’re basing them on government supply data, then you you change your your forecast for each month. Well, and there are other things that happened as well, okay, look like thousand won is a great example. Two thousand one was was a very good giving year for most organizations until september eleven things changed dramatically after that. So you’re able to factor in world events like that, i guess world events, whether yeah, and whether they’re man made or natural disasters, tax policy changes, changes in government, all kinds of things, um, those things are all taken to account, so in terms of the forecast we updated each month, and so if we get it just as an example, if we get a severe weather event of some of some kind, that the severe natural disaster. Say an earthquake in someplace. Hey, that’s going to be good? It could be overall, actually good for the charitable giving economy, depending on what kind of event it is. Because people there’s an outpouring, obviously. And things like the indonesian tsunami and the haitian earthquake. Sure, there was a huge outpouring. But the thing to remember is that the charitable giving economy is complex, and so, um and and it’s somewhat defined so that disaster relief organizations benefit uh, a great deal during times of the those kinds of disasters. But that money has to come from somewhere. And usually it comes from other places and there’s some additive. But it usually comes from other organisms. Other non disaster organizations. Let’s, look at some of the sectors for two thousand eleven. So the arts sector how how did that fair last year? The the, uh, art sector, if you bear with me for just a moment. Sure got eight, eight sectors here to look over. The art sector was up for the year. Six point eight percent and the forecast for next year is for it to finish up five point two percent, which is better. Than the than the forecast for the aggregate national e-giving and but then their results this year weren’t quite as good as the aggregate national number. Yes. Okay. And what about you have ah, sector called society benefit? What is that? The society benefit is his organization’s, um, usually passed through organizations like united way? Uh, those those kinds of organizations would be included in society benefit jewish federations, those sorts of things. Okay, just a reminder for our listeners. I’m with rob mitchell, ceo of atlas, of giving. We’re talking about looking at giving two thousand eleven and two thousand twelve. How did those society benefit organizations do? In last year, they were almost at the national average, up seven point three percent and they’re projected to be almost at the national average next year. Five point zero percent okay, so pretty steady, but then religion i see has been, uh, losing market share. Religion has been losing market share and that’s been a trend that is that has continued for a number of years. Religion did not finish as strong as the nation did in two thousand eleven. Oppcoll let me get to that number really quickly, so recision was up, but not as much as the overall that’s correct, it was up six point five percent, but here’s the interesting thing for the forecast. For next year, it’s only forecast to grow less than half half of the national growth rate for giving so it’s projected to be up one point six percent and thousand twelve what’s the current market share current market shortages um, thirty five percent and how many years has it been since that’s? What you said several, but do we know when that when the decline in market share began? I don’t have that at my fingertips, like certainly get you that information? Because i don’t have that at my fingertips, do we? Don’t you know that there was a declining market share this year? Okay? And it dropped one percent from thirty six percent down to thirty five percent this past year. All right. And what do you expect for next year? Are you able to forecast that market share? Yes, we are able to forecast the market share. And so now i was i was misstated. Religion went religion was at thirty seven percent in two thousand ten. It was a thirty six percent in two thousand eleven, and it looks like if things go according to the forecast that it could be as low as thirty five percent next year. Okay, do we know where that where those dollars air going and again, it’s not a zero sum game, but do you have a sense of that, or not? Really? Well, you know, we we look at lots of different news and information about a lot of different things, and one of the things that’s no secret is that mainline churches in the u s have been losing membership, and it continues to be a problem for them, so that certainly is a contributing factor. The one thing that has not helped religion this past year and this is true of a lot of organizations that rely on lots of small gifts from lots of small donors, is that unemployment as a factor, has been particularly significant because when people fear being unemployed or they are unemployed, they discontinue their giving and often don’t resume their giving until they’ve had a chance to catch up after being re employed of course, like ours and furniture and clothes and taking vacations. That have been put off paying off debt, etcetera? Yes, so that that lags actually from the so the giving of a lag from a change from a decrease in the unemployment rate. Yes. Okay. Okay. Let’s, look a little at some of the sources, and i know you’re able tto look at individual foundation corporate m bequest. What happened to individual giving last year? Individual e-giving i was actually really, really good this past year. Individual e-giving was up. Um a little hang on one second. Let me get to that information. Individual giving was up seven point eight percent, slightly better than the national average. And the individual e-giving forecast for next year is pretty close to what we forecast for the aggregate it’s three point seven percent. Okay. And what was the just the overall dollar amount of individual giving for last year? Two hundred sixty point one. Eight billion. And that represents what percentage of total giving? Seventy five percent has that seventy five percent been pretty steady. It has been very study. It is. Okay. Um, let’s, look at some others. So foundation giving what? What happened that last year? And what’s forecast foundation giving. Wasn’t quite as good as the national seven point five percent. It was up six point, two percent in two thousand eleven, but next year it’s forecast to be currently forecast to be better the national giving it’s it is forecast to go up six point three percent. So steady growth in foundation e-giving from two thousand eleven to two thousand twelve way have just a couple of minutes left. Rob this number’s a really interesting is only so much time we can spend on them. What about the bequest numbers? Tony? I had a feeling you were gonna ask me, i’ll as planned giving is in my heart, of course, save the best for last bequest giving was exactly up as the same amount as the national e-giving average, it was up seven point five percent. It isn’t, uh it isn’t keeping pace. In two thousand twelve, according to our forecast, it’s going to be up three point, zero percent, and, of course, these air realized request. This is not expected, of course, and what percentage of total giving is a bequest? Revenue bequest revenue is, uh seven percent. Okay. And that’s been steady. Is that right? Okay. Last thing i’m gonna ask you is just something maybe a little fun because that we just have, like thirty seconds or so left. Since you can do this by state what’s the one of the most and least generous states in the country. Well, the most generous states in two thousand eleven for pennsylvania, illinois and florida according to their growth rates, pennsylvania had experienced upward are experienced growth of eleven point eight percent. Illinois eleven point four percent florida ten point five percent ok, and how about the other end? Um, there are a whole group of states which were there. Isn’t there isn’t a clear leader at the bottom, if you will. Okay, all right, so we weigh don’t have time to really to go through the list. We don’t want to embarrass anybody, any state randomly, so we’ll just leave it at that and we do have to leave it there for a mitchell is ceo of atlas of giving, you’ll find it atlas of giving dot com we were spending time talking about looking at giving two thousand eleven and two thousand twelve rob thank you very much for being a guest. Tony it’s. Been great to be with you. Thank you, real pleasure in very interesting numbers. Thank you. Right now, we’re going to take a break, and when we return, it’ll be tony’s take to stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back, it’s, time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour my block this week, which i thought was going to be my block last week, but it’s, not the block last week. It’s the block this week, so look for it this week. You don’t need the fancy stuff for your plan e-giving for small and midsize charities really having just a bequest marketing program and stopping there can be a very respectable planned e-giving program. First of all, bequests are where any program starts or irrespective of what your mission is or how big you are. You’re always going to start with requests because they’re the most popular planned gift expect about seventy five percent of your plan gifts to be bequests, and they’re easy for people to understand. Everybody knows what a will is, everybody needs a will. I may not have it, but everybody needs one and they know what one is so it’s an easy type of giving toe understand through a state plans and, um, for a lot of charities, that’s the place to end because you don’t need to spend money on expertise tohave people including you in their will so you could be going into real estate or the sophisticated trust or even charitable gift annuities, but you don’t have to don’t let a fear of the more sophisticated gift and the expertise required for some of them keep you away from inaugurating a plan giving program, start with requests and stopped there and it’s a very respectable and solid plan giving program, and that is tony’s take two for friday, january twenty seventh, the fourth show of two thousand twelve. Now i have breaking the mold in traditional endowment design to pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning last year and here’s that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning. We are on the river walk in san antonio, texas. My guests right now are catherine miree attorney berry catherine is principal of katherine w miree and associates in birmingham, alabama, and attorney berry is a partner in law firm of wyatt, tarrant and combs in louisville, kentucky. Catherine durney welcome, thanks so much pleasure to have you. Your seminar topic is breaking the mold options in traditional endowment design. Catherine wanted to start with you. What the, uh what do we need to break the mold? What’s wrong with traditional design? Tony, i think if you look at the issues and lawsuits right now, where donors are suing charities, what it really reveals is that perpetual is a long time and it’s not entirely practical, to be very prescriptive in creating a long term funds to really look at the issues and talk about some of the solutions to the problems we see out there right now. Okay, durney, let’s, turn to the attorney. What are just some of the legal issues that we’re seeing in these lawsuits that katherine’s talking about right? Well, you you need to look at it from three different points of view. From the donor’s point of view. A planner and a charity are promising that they will do to certain things. And the donor believes him on the donor’s family believes them. And so the question is, can we really design an endowment that will work the way the donor wants over a very long period of time? Then you got issues from the charity’s pointed to it. Does it? Does a charity really want in particular endowment, particularly? If it’s if it’s very, very specific, it may be one thing if what you’re doing is saying we want teo, i had to pay for historical research. But if we say this is for research into the causes of world war i in one hundred years, that may not be something that the university say needs money for and the last, the last aspect that will be talking about is awareness of the effects on society. Is it good for us to have enormous accumulations and endowments? On the other hand, let’s suppose that we cut back on those for any of a variety of reasons. Is that good for society? They’re just complicated issues. And we like tio start people thinking about you and catherine a cz we’re getting into the topic. Let’s, let’s, define endowment. What were we talking about when we’re in these funds? What we mean that’s a great question to may endowment is any poo of fund set aside for the long term use of a charity or for charitable purposes? And so, in that respect, it could be what we all consider a traditional endowment at a university or hospital or any charity. Where the donor makes a gift to the charity and says, don’t spend the principal use only their earnings, or it could be a vehicle like a private foundation, which we see among a lot of the wealthy and a private foundation is perpetual and purpose, and it is, in truth, a pool of funds you’re required by law to distribute five percent of you’re investable assets that you but that’s an endowment, a supporting or could be an endowment, a donor advised funds could be an endowment, a charitable lied trust could be an endowment substitute. So these air all funds where the principle is invested in the earnings are used for charitable purposes, okay? But as attorney pointed out, the donor’s may have specific things that they want to fund, so if we’re going to be donor-centric shouldn’t we just allow them to do what they really want to do with their money and their gift? I love talking about donor-centric what that maims it doesn’t mean letting the donor run amok with a charitable purpose that would take a charity off mission, for example, attorney has a great example of that that makes me smile. Go ahead. Not my favorite one is let’s suppose that i wanted to go to my my church on tao, the singing of amazing grace. You can’t use the money to seeing how great thou art, but you can use it to sing amazing grace and some of the pastor says we’re going to do with that gift. We can have special robes for the singing of amazing grace. We could have a special rise or for the choir to sit to stand on, but all i’m really doing is disrupting the operation of the church and charity should be very sensitive to that, and i don’t, and somebody should come to me and say, well, it’s, wonderful that you like amazing grace and we can call the fund the amazing grace find, but but we just can’t administer a fun like that on a reasonable donors is going to go ahead and change that if you get some thoughtful back and forth and emphasizes his, catherine said the importance donor-centric donors want to help the mission of the endowment charity they’re they’re they’re working with, so you need to meld those, too. And catherine, if you’re attorney said, if the donor is reasonable and really wants to help the charity. Aren’t they going to be receptive to the explanation that that kind of purpose for an endowment just doesn’t suit us? Two of the things to the trends that i see that i think bear on this issue are one term endowments and to creating flexibility within the endowment and a method for or mechanism for change, i’ll give you a good example. I had a donor walk in and wanted to create a million dollar endowment for a program called success by six and the conversation i had with that does age six, i assume not six o’clock in the afternoon, right? Right, trying to do it in a day, six years success by six is an early childhood intervention education intervention program that catches kids when they’re three or four and prepares him tto learn and it’s a critical time in their lives and a lot of poor families. I don’t have that kind of support for children, and my question to the donor was, what are you really trying to accomplish? And when they said, i love these programs that go in and prepare young children, my response was let’s say that let’s don’t name a program that might not be here in a few years. Let’s talk about outcomes, let’s talk about what you want to do, so donors air prescriptive because they haven’t really thought of any other options, and i think our job is planners is to back him up a little bit and talk more about outcomes and purposes in terms, so we have options. We have the reflect, the limited term endowment and what was the other that you mentioned flexibility put in a plan b, a plan c in the event that the first purpose is no longer impactful? Effective makes okay now attorney in your work are you seeing donors who are receptive to these breaking the mold of what we’ve been doing for decades? Sure, let let let’s take, for example, and arts group the louisville orchestra if you have a donor who wants to benefit the louisville orchestra and wants to create a very long term endowment, it’s pretty easy to persuade the donor that a fund should be for the benefit or castro music in louisville, kentucky, an example of which is the level orchestra and that’s what? Should be funded first, but if one hundred years from now there’s some other something, then the larger purpose is funding live classical music and louisville today, we can’t really conceive of that it any other way than an orchestra that may be true in one hundred years, but but who knows? Education is another really good, and you have the issue of bankruptcy. Our orchestra and birmingham went bankrupt and took down with it a number of funds that donor said contributed so in attorneys example, what do you do? Have you protected the funds in one of our jobs? Is planners if we’re representing the donor, is to protect those funds for the use that they intended. So what do you do in that situation? And i hear that a lot from potential donors. What happens if the college or the orchestra doesn’t exist any longer? How do we protect the donor? Well, they’re they’re number of ways you could do that, one of which is you can put the assets the endowment in a separate organization in a philanthropic fund, a private foundation, a community foundation, a supporting or where it is not the charity’s directly, so that’s one way to do it another way is to have a gift over it’s a little extreme. What does that mean? Gift over way have jargon jail here on tony martignetti not probably don’t my antenna are always up when i’m with an attorney, right? Right? No way. What did you say left over as long as as long as that particular organization is doing x, then the endowment will be theirs. But if not, it will go over to a second organization. So the second organization has an incentive to police what the first organization is doing so let’s say let’s say that what i do is i create endowment for ah, for a hospital that’s supposed to be used to support it’s it’s women’s programs and for whatever reason, the hospital stopped doing that it goes in and becomes a long term care facility. If i have a gift over to another hospital, the other hospital is going to raise the red flag and say, oh, first hospital isn’t doing this anymore where’s our money? Well, that’s, a very that’s, a very good way to do it, and you’re finding non-profits are willing to accept that oversight. By another local non-profit i mean, but but because again they don’t they don’t think they’re ever going to get out of that business, and so it helps them do whatever it is they want to do. The harder ones, quite honestly, are something like a library where you have donors who really want to fund collections, and you have to have the very difficult conversation, particularly with elderly people, that collections may not be books, and they really don’t know when they say not books, they think, oh, it’s, going to be some endless room of computers and dvds and and a bunch of kids playing and this is not what we want to do, and you have to say, well, it’s, not entirely true, if, if in in, you know, the year one hundred somebody had endowed the creation of a pirate’s manuscript, you you would have wanted them to fund gutenberg, and they all kinda well, yeah, that’s, that’s, true, but but those air harder organizations, catherine let’s, take a step back and think about some smaller organizations that that really just wanted. Maybe they’re at the stage where they say we need to have an endowment. We want to start an endowment. What should they be thinking of our around the issues that you attorney are concerned about? I think the first place to start is the role of endowment, both internally. I always looking to cases for endowment. One is thie internal case. Why do we need an endowment, how we’re going to use it. So everybody over the board is saying, we need one, you want to, you want to question, why, okay? And why do you need one? And what is its role going? Tobe a and i don’t think people talk about that enough. And then that second case is washing donors. Invest in the endowment, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community oppcoll oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales or maybe better? Writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Told you. Durney what attorney, in terms of structuring endowment, from a legal perspective, what does the charity beginning that process need to be thinking of? Well, you you need to decide, is it going to be an internal endowment or an external in down there? You’re going to keep it on your books or are you going to create an organization or creative fund at a community ways you mentioned earlier, communiqu, conditional donorsearch vie, having donors use their own donor advised funds that said, ok, so what do you want in house or do you or do you not? And then what sort of what sort of restrictions are you going to impose? What sort of gifts are you going to solicit? One of the things that that i fine at least, is that often time, endowments and plan giving generally very unfortunately serves a work avoidance function, it is we’ve got somebody on staff or the board says, oh, we’ve got a lot of older donors we need to raise endowment dollars from them, but nobody really wants to go ask anybody for endowment money, so they say we’ll order some brochures and we’ll mail the brochures out and we’ll have a plan and we’ll have a committee, and at the end of the day, they’re shocked to discover that nobody gives any money and so they then divert the person to doing special events, and three or four years later, somebody on the board says, we need to get serious about endowment, and we start the process all over again, you know? Oh, and and and you see it when you look at resumes, most of the resumes among the smaller charities in certainly in our area there the plan giving officers have us much special event experience as they do playing e-giving experience the ones where you have success are the people who are committed, and they say, it’s future, we’re going after the future all of fund-raising at the end of the day, it’s just telling your story. And if you have people in the organization who aren’t comfortable telling the story, i e fund-raising that’s a problem kapin you’re shaking your head, as tony was saying, future anything you want to say they’re no, i agree, i agree with him. Absolutely. I generally look at annual operating annual fund-raising supporting operations plan giving and deferred giving supporting endowment because it’s a one time gift, it perpetuates the donor’s ongoing gift. We know that those gifts come from the most committed donors, so i don’t disagree with you. You know, i thought maybe you were shaking your head in chagrin over over organizations that might be doing what i do. I see it all the time. So how should we structure internally in terms of fund-raising to avoid the the problems that attorney is describing when we’re starting an endowment, campaign or program? You know, i think an endowment campaign on its own is the hardest thing any charity will ever do. I look at it as part of the bigger picture, part of the bigger case. Two donors that they need to invest now and in the future, i see. I really think having people the son to play e-giving and having the disciplined allocate those gifts to endowment as quasi endowment, which is bored. Allocated as opposed to donor ellicott. Ok, let’s, talk a little about that quasi endowment. That was okay, too. Real types of endemic one is true endowment. That is where the donor places to restrictions on those funds that you cannot spend the principal. You may only use the earnings. The other is quasi endowment, and quasi is bored. Allocated endowment. That means the gift comes in without the restrictions. But the board itself places an endowment because it has the discipline to do that. And that is the easiest way. Oh, so that’s that’s an unrestricted gift that might just be a thousand dollar annual gift. It’s and the board makes a difficult decision. Yes, to not spend it right and put it into its true endowment. Right. And, you know the other argument i usually give, charity says if you budget a state gifts, you are basically budgeting death and that it’s a little tricky in terms of the unrestricted gifts being allocated to endowment by the board. Is there ah, policy or a guideline that you like to see a certain percentage of unrestricted gifts being devoted to endowment? I look at it. Mohr is all the testamentary gifts. The things that are triggered by the death of the donor. If the charity will put one hundred percent of those an endowment, it will basically in tao in many cases, the donor’s annual gift i wanted to. See have all that discipline and then if they need, if you have policies it’s, goingto be howto we withdraw some of those funds, but how do we use them that’s so hard to do, though in especially in the midst of a recess? Shin still, but attorney, i see you nodding. You agree it is, but you could never make any progress. It seems to me if you’re if you are always having to find new donors, you want to be able to tell the story two new people every year, but you want to continue to capture the story of our capture, the people you’ve already told story too. So if you’ve got a donor who gives you a thousand dollars a year, if you could get ten thousand dollars as a request or is a longer term gift of some sort, then this is good because they’ve basically funded their gift and now i can go after the next person aunt, i can actually expand and grow and develop in a way that it’s very difficult to do if you every year are starting from scratch. Of course, catherine, as our consultant, we know that the cost of acquiring a new donor is considerably greater than e-giving follow-up gift from an existing it isthe and i look at it it’s maximizing the donor’s role with the charity. If they are giving to you every year, you need to make that ask that they give in perpetuity and many of them will you’re not going to find people walking around on the streets that there going to make it down my gifts that haven’t that don’t have any other connection to your charity know you’re looking for that commitment in terms of and doesn’t that commitment. Evenflo teo two donors who were giving it small levels, right? Let’s, talk a little about that. Catherine. I see direct mail organizations whose average gifts eyes on an annual basis is very low. They don’t have those hi n major gifts, and yet there is committed and they might leave an average of st gift of thirty or forty thousand. It may not be as large as the major gift donors, but it’s significant, no charity would turn that what? So look to your small giving your donors were making small gifts, but doing it consistently maybe that zach decade arm or decades? Sometimes we see in longstanding organism right best the number one indicator, and what i have learned is that many of those donors make their only major gift at death because they can’t afford to do it doing like we have to leave it there been with katherine miree principle of katherine w miree and associates in birmingham, alabama, and turny bury a partner in a law firm, wyatt, tarrant and combs in louisville, kentucky. Catherine, attorney welcome. Thank you very much for being here. Thanks. Enjoyed the topic was breaking the mold options in traditional endowment designing your listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on films about the planning two thousand eleven. That was my interview with katherine miree internee berry from the national conference on philanthropic planning on breaking the mold in traditional endowment design. I want to thank everybody this week, my thanks to rob mitchell for being a guest on dh catherine miree and turny berry for taking time. Teo, sit with me at the national conference on philanthropic planning and also thanks to the organizers of that conference. It was a pleasure to be a media sponsor there. Next week, tapping entrepreneurs for your cause with jerry stengel principle of stengel solutions were going to talk about the value that entrepreneurs khun give you and how to approach them. What what do you need to explain to them so that they’ll be drawn to you? Keep up with what’s coming up? Sign up for the insider email lorts on our facebook page. If you like the show like us on facebook, you know that you can listen live our archive you’ve been listening live on for archive listening, go to our itunes page, which you’ll find at non-profit radio dot net, you can subscribe and listen on the device of your choice at the time you prefer on twitter. Of course we’ve been live tweeting use that hashtag non-profit radio! You can also follow me on twitter. The show is sponsored by g grace and company. If you’re worried about the rising costs of rent for your organization, or need to capitalize on real estate, you’re non-profit owns g grayson company provides you and you’re bored with analysis so that real estate decisions are made with transparency and thoroughness. 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Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m julie, hi, i’m julia, what are you wearing? Welcome to jay and jay. Secrets of style and beauty. We know there’s, beauty and style, and all you do, whether it’s a job interview, first date or wedding, we also know that not everyone understands what works best for him or her. We’re here to help. Think of us as your personal beauty style and grooming guru’s, as industry experts will give you the best information for men and women on howto look phenomenal tuning tuesdays at eight pm tto. Learn how to look your best. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? 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Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Talking.

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067: Work-Life Balance & Volunteer Visibility – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Posted on November 14, 2011 by Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Rachel Emma Silverman, reporter at The Wall Street Journal and contributor to their blog “The Juggle”

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now”

Joe Ferraro, board member of the Association of Fundraising Professionals, Westchester county chapter

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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063: Non-Cash Giving – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Posted on October 25, 2011 by Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Michael King, vice president of gift planning at the National Christian Foundation

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now”

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Dahna welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio for october fourteenth, two thousand eleven your aptly named host. This show is all about and always will be about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I hope you were with me last week when it was excel in email execution. My first guest was dave pulis, ceo and chief consultant at granite partners, and he shared five elements of effective email marketing and had tips for list hygiene. I hope your list is practicing safely and then claire meyerhoff, editorial director at the plan giving company and principal of the plant e-giving agency, revealed how to write for email fund-raising so that your message gets opened, read and respond to do this week e-giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning last week in san antonio, michael king of the national christian foundation shares the process for closing gift of unusual assets like collectibles, real estate and intellectual property. Then i’ll be joined by maria semple are regular prospect research contributor she’s, the prospect finder and she’s going to follow up on her last time on the show last month by going into greater detail on making your small shop prospect research proactive, and that segment is proactive. Prospect research between the segments. Tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. The national conference on philanthropic planning, where i was in san antonio last week, i’ll say a little about that, and this week’s block post separate the juice from the pits. A juicer at a restaurant got me thinking about fund-raising i’ll talk about that. We’re live tweeting this show as we always do. The hashtag is non-profit radio all one word to join the conversation with us on twitter. Right now, we take a break, and when we return, it’ll be e-giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com pompel welcome back, it’s, time now for my pre recorded interview with michael king, taken from the national conference on philanthropic planning, where i was just last week, talking about giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving and here’s. That interview. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning in san antonio, texas, were on the river walk in san antonio. And my guest right now is michael king, with the national christian foundation in alphabet of georgia. His seminar topic is giving beyond the check launching generosity with non-cash e-giving michael. Welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Good to be here. A pleasure to have you. You you point out something interesting in your seminar description that most gif ts are cash but that’s not most of the assets that people hold. Why don’t you describe those numbers? Stores? Yeah. It’s. Very interesting. If you look at all of the charitable giving that is done in our country each year about three hundred billion over eighty percent of that giving is simply done in the form of cash. And of the remaining twenty percent. A lot of that is given in the form of maybe marketable securities war, household goods that are dropped off at the salvation army, your goodwill. And yet if you look at the composition of wealth in the nation, cash represents less than ten percent of what people own go. And so there’s this small pond that everyone is kind of fishing out of when there’s this ocean of additional opportunity that oftentimes just doesn’t come on to the radar screen of most charity he’s or donors or advisors. Now can non-cash gif ts be appropriate for small and midsize charities? It can be absolute, even in some of the, you know, the smallest charities that exist in local communities. It’s not unusual for them, tow have at least some, you know, wealthy, influential folks that might serve on their board or support their organization. A lot of ah gifting in this area that is that that could be a great opportunity is closely held business interests. And so even for some organizations that hold annual events, you know, oftentimes they’ll have businesses that will sponsor those events. And so right, there is a source of potential opportunity or folks that maybe interested for receptive e-giving interest in their business and probably have never even contemplated. And what about those again for the small midsize shop, the complexity? How would we’ll deal with some of the exact, you know, different types of assets, but sure, just generally these do require some expertise. How it’s too small a midsize shop to do about that? Yeah, that’s a good point, and i would even say there’s, no question there’s significant complexity to gifts of these these assets there can be no technical complexities, rial challenges in terms of liability that an organization might be subject to, so not only with small and midsize organizations, but even a lot of large organizations simply lack the manpower, expertise, knowledge to really facilitate these gifts in a meaningful way from my experience, there’s really only a handful of organizations that have a deep expertise in this realm, but a number of them are organized in such a way, often times they use a donor advised funds platform because some of the greatest benefits are able to be secured by that type of a structure. And so they do a lot of work with small, medium sized large organizations basically serving as a middleman so that those organizations don’t have to secure the full breath of that knowledge and expertise. Ok, but if they see opportunities, they can partner with some of these other organisations that will do much of that work while still directing those ultimate proceeds to that particular charity, how does the donor advised funds? Work? Well, the donor advised fundez in the context of charitable entities generally is probably the newest concept. Even though it’s been around since the nineteen twenties, it really wasn’t until the nineties, when the donor advised fund really kind of took off. People became very familiar with it. Much of that was facilitated by fidelity mutual fund company and so as more and more people have experienced this it’s really become one on opportunity for individuals with more modest means tohave, a charitable entity somewhat similar, very similar to a private foundation, without all the headaches and and hassles of dealing with a lot of the rules that apply there. But then, even for wealthy families, we have more and more families that are using the donor advised funds has an enhanced alternatives to a private foundation, michael white. Why is the donor advised funds more suitable for these types of non-cash gifts that we’re talking about yet, particularly when we’re dealing with non-cash assets? The nature of the charitable entity is of critical importance, and the reason for that is the deduction limitations that apply to a private foundation versus a public charity status like a donor advised funds sponsor. And so if you were to give appreciated assets other than marketable securities to a private foundation, the givers deduction would be limited to the lesser of the fair market value or basis. And so, therefore, if you have a business interest or a realist, a piece of real estate that was highly appreciated or depreciated for time. Jack purposes, you would only get a deduction for whatever basis you had on that basis is generally the caught your tax cost. It could be different if you earned it. If you got the asset through. Ah, requesting a will, but it’s, generally your tax cost in the in the asset, right, that’s correct. So you could end up. Your point is you can end up with a deduction that would be much lower then the fair market value. I mean, you’re much, much lower. Exactly. So take the take the situation, tony of a privately owned business. No, probably the common scenario is if a business is successful, it probably started in somebody’s garage or with moderate means and has little to no basis at all. So in those context, a private foundation is wholly ineffective in making gifts of that nature. But a donor advised funds or other public charity status entity will receive a full, fair market value deduction. And i think this distinction between this these these two entities is why so many opportunities in this realm are missed is because typically when somebody’s working charity or in advisors working with a wealthy family on they have a generous heart almost by default. We all think, oh, they need a private foundation. And if we’re working in the context of a private foundation, generally, these types of assets just aren’t appropriate. They won’t really leverage the tax benefits that they can if we’re using a donor advised funds or another five public charity status organization. So then a savvy gift planner at at a charity would recommend the donor advised funds over the private foundation for the reasons you describe it e-giving ending, ending the ending, the ending, you’re listening to the talking, alternate network, things getting thinking. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading. Learn how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities. Dahna you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Durney are there other vehicles methods of of giving that are not directly to the charity that are that are more suitable for these types of assets? I would say. Generally, the structure of the donor advised funds provides the greatest flexibility. But even in the context of business interest in real estate, they can certainly be combined with split interest arrangements like charitable remainder trust, charitable gift annuities, charitable lead trusts, the complexity in that context mounts. But there could be some real advantages to incorporating those split interest arrangements in conjunction with non-cash assets as well. Okay, is a is a small or mid size shop likely tto find maybe expertise that could help with this on their board? Oh, and or let me put it differently, cause that’s obviously gonna vary by board aboard that’s, not that’s. Not well put what types of expertise might be required if if that that the charity would need if if the donor wasn’t interested in a donor, advised funds or for whatever reason, it wasn’t going to pursue that route. What types of expertise are needed? Yeah, the, you know, certainly a competent charitable in a state planning attorney and a very competent now. Is that for the representing the charity or you mean represented donor or one on each side? Yeah, i mean, theoretically, you could have one on each side, but to have somebody with just that the general knowledge to teo be ableto lay out a road map of hay here, the different issues we need to think through here the different structure and planning opportunities. It’s generally going tto be helpful toe have somebody with some fairly deep knowledge. From a technical standpoint, you did mention the board, and certainly the board can be ineffective. Resource, probably more so from the standpoint of identifying opportunities. Ok, ok, other expertise besides the person well steeped in the internal revenue code, who understands the implications of charitable giving? Yeah, not really. I mean on, especially if you if if you’re partnering with one of these organizations that does work in this area donorsearch vise fun platter, they typically have a pretty pretty significant breath of expertise. They’ll have accountants. Attorneys, though, of course, have the administrative folks that manage and maintain the donor advised funds platform. Yeah, i was thinking more of the charity that has a donor that doesn’t want to go, the donor advised funds away can’t go because you can’t afford or is not just doesn’t want to do the private foundation. What sort of what infrastructure does the charity need to have in place in terms of expertise before they can start talking to donors about these non-cash gift? Well, yeah, that’s a good question. Yeah, they certainly would benefit from having on the charity side on attorney your accountant well versed in these issues because the reality is those organizations, if they’re a standard five oh one c three public charity can take these assets in his well, so they don’t have the negative tax implications that the private foundation does, so they could certainly take these assets in themselves. They have the benefits that they be ableto provide to the families that they work with, and then it really would just be a matter of them being educated enough to be able to articulate the opportunities to the families that they’re working with. And then clearly those families are going to need to be represented also correct, these are very complex a cz you’ve mentioned transactions that khun involve the internal revenue code. Very d deeply, the person’s a state plan, et cetera. All right, yeah. So particularly in these in this type of planning, we always highly, highly encourage families to really involve their advisor team because of the complexity of those issues. And, you know, even if you have, ah charity that knows the family very well because of the technical issues that arise here, you know, there may be aspects of their business minute details that you know, they’re just not going to know that their attorney accountant might know, but it could be very important to the overall planning. What’s your advice about bringing in family members, let’s assume it’s, a husband and wife couple, they’re in their seventies. What about bringing in the children in that example, but could be other family members in a different example? Yeah, i think. It’s it’s, it’s i think it’s always great to involve children, grandchildren in charitable planning and endeavours to the greatest extent possible now, interestingly, when particularly when we’re dealing with family owned businesses. There’s a lot of planning that takes place in this charitable context that also involves succession planning within the family, so we will create structures. Where somebody might give interest in their business. Oh, and then ultimately, at some point, those interests are purchased from the children or a trust for their benefit and really serve as a mechanism or a component of the families ofthe overall succession plan, and by doing that, we can leverage not only family wealth transfer but charitable benefits as well. Aren’t we also minimizing the likelihood of any kind of a challenge to the gift if we if we inform and bring in other family members, so this is not a surprise to them, it can be depending on, you know, the the owner’s involved with a particular asset or business, even if they’re not family members. You know, if a charity all of a sudden becomes a shareholder in a business that can have impact and and raise issues for other shareholders, typically they’re not significant issues. I mean, generally speaking, the charity just simply becomes an additional shareholder to the organization. A lot of times, the family business is that we’re working with maybe owned holy in the family, just mom or dad or maybe some of the kids, but particularly when you get outside of that. And you might have nonreligious shareholders. They need to be aware of those implications and don’t always have the same objectives. So sometimes planning that might work well in a family contacts might not be applicable for somebody that has a business and they own it with non family. Were non related members let’s shift focus a little bit to the my voice is cracked sixteen years old to the er with a lot of gray hair to the different types of assets. What? Aside from cash and then appreciated securities or stock? What? What do we see as the the next or the most popular type of gift outside those arenas? Yeah, well, i think if you look at the three largest asset types in terms of the wealth composition in our country, they would be marketable securities, privately owned businesses in real estate, so that’s going to comprise the vast majority of wealth in the country. But there’s also lots of other types of assets. Intellectual property, collectibles, life insurance, oil and gas interests. Individual retirement accounts, there’s a lot of different assets that can provide leverage tax benefits as opposed to giving simply in the form of cash. In fact, a lot of times tony will say that there’s a lot of families that if they give chaired, give charitably in their generous, we suggest to them that it’s possible they should never make another cash gift in their life because these other asset type gifts non-cash asset yes, generally provide leverage, benefits. And so, as opposed to just simply capturing a charitable deduction, we might be able to get not only a charitable deduction, but we might be able to avoid capital gains tax. We might be able to secure income from that asset that will be exempt from tax so there’s typically kind of double or even triple benefits that can be captured with these other non-cash assets. So the families have a lot of those assets we say hey, yousa donor advised funds and use that as a storehouse so that you’re able to use these other assets when they’re converted to cash. Then give the cash out of the donor advised funds because you’re always able to leverage typically the tax benefits in that context. Let’s, look at the intellectual property gift. What are what are concerns there, let’s? Just say hypothetically, a donor comes in. She has authored some textbooks. Let’s say she has some physical books. Maybe she has let’s say a thousand books. She wants to give the books about that. Make it a school. So there’s some use for that and then. But then also she wants to give the intellectual property rights or copyright and whatever flows from that. What? What? What? What is the charity? Start asking? Where does it begin with that? To get that conversation started? Yeah, it’s. Interesting. Because there are numerous types of intellectual property patents, copyrights, trademarks, even things that we might not typically think of as an asset, like a process or a nohow that would fall into this category. So you specifically mentioned copyrights? Copyrights are kind of an interesting thing because there’s a unique rule that says, if you actually created the copyright, you are the author. You’re not going to be able to secure a charitable deduction for that just part of the rules. Now, if i had a copyright that i purchased from somebody else and all of a sudden it’s worth a lot of money, i purr argast you know the song writes of the beatles and then it appreciated in value, and i gave that away. I could secure a full, fair market value deduction so typically in a copyright situation, whether with an author or perhaps a musician, the primary objective or benefit there is once that asset is gifted, the royalty income that is produced from that asset escapes taxation with respect to the charity completely. So think about, you know, a major author, somebody that sold a book and is literally made multiple millions of dollars from that book if they’re in a position where they say, gee, i really don’t need all this income, they could give all or a portion of the copyright to that book, and then the royalty income that is then collected would go pro radha to the charity, and all of that income would escape taxation completely. Okay. And there’s still no deduction for the author who is the creator of the work? Correct for the continuing royalties? Yes. That’s correct. There’s there’s. No additional deduction now, let’s, let’s. Shift to a patent situation. Let’s say there’s something that somebody was able to patton the rules that apply there are that upon initial gift of that. Asset, the deduction that the giver will receive will be the lesser of fair market value or basis. Okay, we hear that again said that before you now there’s a special rule, though, that says for the next ten years you may be able to secure additional charitable deductions based on the royalty income that the charity actually receives. Oh, so different fromthe copyright example, we just had exactly. Yeah, and the reason they did this, tony, was they had i guess there were some people that were giving intellectual property rights that at least theoretically had some value, so they were getting a charitable deduction, but they weren’t really generating any income or usable cash that the charity could use. So they changed the rules and said, we’re not going to give you a big deduction up front. But if it is an asset that does, in fact, produce cash and benefits, charity will allow you charitable deductions for future years based on that, that income stream that the charity receives and the structure is kind of a sliding scale. So for the first two years, whatever the royalty income was that was collected, the giver would get one. Hundred percent deduction for that. Okay, and then it go ninety percent nineteen, seventy until it fades away. Okay. Okay. And the charity? Of course, khun still continue to get the royalty income for decades. It’s just that there won’t be a deduction for the donor. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, and i think in some context, you know, you think about some of the top authors out there. I’m not sure a lot of people completely understand or know how much revenue is generated from some of these books, but like the second best selling book of all time after the bible is rick warren’s a purpose driven life or the purpose driven life that book generated over fifty million dollars in royalty income and, you know, some of the political books barack obama, sarah palin oftentimes those books generated as much as ten million dollars or more in revenue, so you could see that if somebody has somebody someone that says g i don’t i don’t need all of that. I don’t need all that tend this kind of a windfall. I never dreamed that i’d write a book in it have this windfall there’s some phenomenal opportunities to really benefit charitable organizations in an incredible way. I think you said earlier that donor could give a portion of the royalties. Correct. Is that right? Okay. Yeah. There’s an issue there that you have to be very careful about. Because there’s a roller concept referred to as the partial interest rules, which basically says, if you give just a part of an asset that you own, you’re not going to get a charitable deduction, you have to give the entire interest and that can come into play here if somebody were to say, hey, i have this patent i want to retain the patent, but i want to give to charity a royalty stream. You can’t do that and secure charitable deduction. You would have to give a portion of both the patent itself, along with the royalty income that attach is to that. But even that portion is sufficient. Yes. Yeah. Sounds to me like the portion would be partial. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s. A bit confusing. Really? Get into some technicalities here, but you’re able to give an undivided interest of the hole. So if you give a twenty percent interest in both the patent and the associate id royalty string that doesn’t run afoul of these partial interest rules, although typically we would think justin regular definitions that, well, that’s a partial interests. But for purposes of the tax code, partial interest is not defined in a way that would include that type of construction. We’re seeing a very good example of what we talked about earlier in terms of the charity being properly advised with someone who has this knowledge and expertise because to the layperson, twenty percent is partial, right? It’s. Exactly. Right. Okay, but it’s not in the internal revenue code. And so when you have that need for expertise, we have just about a minute left. Or so we got into a lot of detail about intellectual property. Uh, if someone is approached about closely held business interest, really, as i said, just about a minute. What? What do they need to do? Tow? Just continue that conversation. What are they thinking about? The threshold? Yeah. There’s. Really? Two context. Big picture context. Where opportunities air created with a closely held business interest one is, if they’re expecting a sail on the near term horizon, they would simply give a portion of that. Business before the sale occurs, and therefore, in addition to getting the charitable deduction, they would also be able to avoid or at least reduced dramatically, the capital gains tax that would otherwise apply upon sale. So that’s one context the other contacts is when there isn’t a sail on the horizon, they want to give a business interest, and it may be held for years. There are opportunities there to give relatively small interests in the business on an annual basis to maximize the annual charitable deductions. So in other words, they capture significant tax benefits but are only e-giving small interest in their business. A lot of families will do this every year. The deduction thresholds under our tax code, our extraordinarily generous all of us could give up the fifty percent of our income in the form of cash and get a deduction. And if we’re dealing with a non-cash asset, we could deduct up to thirty percent of our income, but most people come not even close to capturing those full benefits, so lots of opportunities in that context, we have to leave it there. Michael king is with the national christian foundation in alphabet a georgia michael’s. A pleasure having you as a guest. Thanks, tony. Good to be here, my privilege. We’ve been talking about giving beyond the czech launching generosity with non-cash e-giving, and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of the national conference on philanthropic planning in san antonio two thousand eleven. That was my pre recorded interview with michael king, my thanks to him and the folks at the national conference on philanthropic planning. Right now, we’re going to take a break, then tony’s, take two and after that proactive prospect research with maria simple, so stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com oh! Dahna hi there. Welcome back. Time for tony’s. Take two. Always at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. So, as you heard in the first segment, i was in san antonio last week for the national conference on philanthropic planning. Recorded eighteen interviews in the two days that we were on the exhibit hall floor. There was a lot of buzz got a lot of buzz around the show and people would stop and watch the interviews. I was doing them, but i got a lot of great content for the show, and i’ll be playing those over the next coming months. Those eighteen interviews. My thanks to the conference organizers that worked out very well for for us and for the show. I think for them, i mean, and for the show and my block post this week is separate the juice from the pits. I was looking at a juicer in a restaurant here in the city a while ago, and it just got me thinking about, um, separating valuable work and necessary things that we have to do from the distractions that we can either take on ourselves or have foisted on us. And it got me. Thinking about fundraisers doing that so fundraisers, if you are engaged in things that you think are a distraction from your principal job and the things you hopefully enjoyed doing the most, which is meeting people, then take a look at those things that distracting you critically and try to get out from underneath a mme i’m thinking it might be administrative responsibilities that a boy a boss gives you that aren’t directly related to fund-raising could also be professional association, that committee work that you take on. Um, look at these things critically and see if there really supporting you in your primary job and if they’re not. If you feel like they’re keeping you away from that or distraction, try teo extricate yourself from them so that you can spend more time doing the things that you really love and that are your primary responsibility. And that is my block post this week again, the post is separate the juice from the pits, my blog’s that m p g a d v dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, october fourteenth. Very pleased now tohave back-up maria semple maria is the prospect finder you’ll find her at the prospect finder dot com and she’s, the author of panning for gold hae networth prospects. Now, maria, welcome. Good to have you back. Thanks, county. Thanks for having me, it’s. A pleasure as always. S so we’re talking about proactive prospect research following up on what we talked about last month for small shops. Why is it just remind people why is it better to be proactive than just reactive? Well, if you could set aside some time in your development cycle, maybe some laws or even if you could get a disciplined is putting some time on the calendar at least once a month to do some proactive prospecting. It will continually generate a new pool of people. I guess in a sales world they would call it, you know, filling your funnel with prospects. And so if you could kind of have that mindset is always being in a mode of trying to connect with new people. It was going to help your your non-profit organization tremendously. As with any initiative, that’s knew we look to the board initial t get started. Is that right? I think that would be a good idea if you can harness your boardmember to bring to the table perhaps three new names to start on. We’re talking about people who could be potentially major gift prospects for the organisation, right and that’s, however, they define major e-giving right, exactly, and that does very greatly non-profits provoc some places that maybe a thousand dollars in other places that maybe twenty five thousand, right, exactly. Okay, so we’re asking each boardmember for two to three people is that if they can bring those names to the table and then you can research them a little bit further and then devised some sort of perhaps the cultivation event to start engaging some of these additional people for your non-profit so this is a way to involve board members in the development cycle, even if they’re not directly involved in the ask if they can at least get involved in the identification phase of the development cycle, that would be really helpful for you. Okay, wait delegating this to a specific committee on the board, or we’re asking the board at large well, again here, it depends on the size of the non-profit if you have a separate development committee, that would be great to delegate that taft to them, but if you don’t have the committee, i would involve the entire board having them understand that. You know, the goal here is to increase the major gift pool of prospect, okay? And you suggested that then there then be some kind of a follow-up event to invite new people, i presume we could ask a boardmember tau host that event or we could do something different? Yes, you could definitely have it at a boardmember home, or you could have it at your non-profit organization again here, depending on the type of non-profit you have, if you have something going on at your organization that you really want to showcase, maybe you have a stellar charter school or daycare center, so we might make sense to have more of a breakfast type event prior to the opening of the location. And then once the location is spilling over into the time slot, perhaps when the location is open so that you can then give people some guided tours through the facility and they can get a real sense of what this places like when it’s buzzing with kids, you know, so it really depends on the non-profit but it works really well to have a small, intimate gathering in a boardmember homos well and remember it’s a cultivation event, it’s not an ask event. So the ask does not happen at the event you’re there to inform latto really, you know, come across with the passion for the organization on keep it to the time slot that you have indicated to people that the event will take place when you talk to boards about this, what do you asking them to look for him? And i understand it’s ah, major give prospect. But how did they how did the board members individually try toe identify the right people. Teo, get there there two or three each? Okay, well, if they don’t personally know some people who fall into that category, they maybe only several degrees separated away from some of those people. One way would be for them to kind of be your ambassadors in helping you to continually can the newspapers, for example, of the who’s who in your community who’s getting involved in other large non-profits who is committed to perhaps some similar types of non-profits and whether they’re subscribing to the hard copy of the newspapers, or they’re assisting you by doing some targeted searches, your local libraries will have access to your local papers and a search functionality of art to search the archives and and toe look at daily copies of the newspapers online, so if they’re willing to at least get involved in that, or perhaps be willing to help you by setting up some google alert regarding where your community might be coming up named on specific pages of google websites and so forth, that might be really helpful to you in terms of trying to bring new names a light yes, so you can delegate some of what you might think you have to do you as the executive director or the development director might feel that you have to take on some of this could be delegated teo to some board members? Absolutely, especially if you have a boardmember who is really internet savvy? This would be a great task to delegate to them. This is going to be something that they’re going to be seeing feeling very comfortable about doing it’s going to be something very simple, they’ll understand what it is. You’re looking for and they will, people altum just really simply set up these types of searches for themselves and it’s going to help you in killing your prospect pipeline let’s talk a little about actually approaching the people, so now let’s, take a step back, let’s go to the board members, the people that they know personally, so not yet looking at newspapers or other publications, but the people they know personally, what do you train board members to say to the people that they want to invite to the types of events for talking about? First of all, i think that the passion and commitment for their organization must really come through, so they are ambassadors for the non-profit so their enthusiasm, their reasons for joining your organization and being committed to it and hopefully by the way committed is not only in time that money as well, so they shouldn’t be asking somebody to come to the table and learn more about the organization if they haven’t financially commited at whatever level they’re able to do for that organization so they may approach them by saying, you know what? I have this organization i’m involved with you. May have heard me talk about it. X, y. Z non-profit i’m really committed to this organization. You and i have talked in the past about how important it is to solve this specific problem in our communities. I’d love for you to come out and learn a little bit more about what we’re doing to solve this problem and see if it resonates with you, there won’t be an ass. We will not ask you for money that evening, but we’d like for you to just take some time out of your scheduled to come out and learn more, and you have to recognize to that this is often an exchange, some people we’ll invite their friends to the organizations that there supporting and then the expectation is that those friends air probably going to do the same. So as an executive director of darryl development director, you understand, understand that you’re not asking somebody to do something that isn’t that isn’t all that common, right? It’s probably already being asked of the boardmember, you know, on the other side as you just presented, so yeah, absolutely there these people are probably very accustomed to attending events that their friends have invited them to, um what about so now? Going beyond what you were starting refer to local newspapers, you might look at who other charities are cultivating and working with in those in those newspapers. Yeah, so you might if you are a a local organization. Let’s say, your your mission is health care related, but you see, or perhaps a small local community health center, it might be interesting to take a look at who some of the major donors are supporting the larger regional hospitals in the area and other health, larger health initiatives. If you have any major presence of cancer societies or association heart association, american heart association, so something like that might be useful for you as well. You can do that by prospecting the websites of those organizations or calling them for their annual report. Um, there are some sea bass resource is that do compile thiss type of information. All name two of them off the top of my head nose and see a we’ve talked about that one before knows, and then also i wave dot com has a list of donors that air captain. All this information, though, is really pulled from annual report, so if you are very localized in your mission and your geographic scope, that might be overkill, but if you’re you know, you could just contact the local non-profits directly to try and compiled some of those nameless and in just a minute or so that we have left before a break, how would the organization contact these types of people who we don’t have a relationship with what we found the ways you’re describing, best thing would be to bring those names to the light of the board members again here the ambassador is your organization. So before any direct outreach is made, see if there’s any way to get a warm introduction to any of these individuals, um and lengthen might even be a tool to help you in that regard. To find out how many degrees you may be separated from someone or see, the board is willing to run some of these names through their own lincoln accounts to see how many degrees they may be separated. So that’s a terrific tool for you to use and it’s a free tool. Your suggestion about asking boardmember xyz that’s sounds like literally you give them a list of names of potential prospects that that the organization has found and asking, what do you know them? Do you know anybody who knows them, that kind of thing, right? You’re proactively bringing names to the table that they should be littering as away. You know, how can we gain entree to these individuals? These are people who care about this particular cause in our community. Is there any way we can? What is the path to this individual? Is there any way you can help lead us there? We have to take a break. I’m talking to maria simple, the prospect finder, and after this break, we’ll continue. So stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. They get non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing effort. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile market. Their motto is we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com talking. If you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr robert panna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Welcome back and we’re talking to the prospect finder maria simple, our regular prospect research contributor samaria we’ve identified these people what’s the what’s the best way to start tio reach out to them should it be the people who we don’t have close relationships with by letter or by phone call or yeah, you might want to make sure that you at least add them into your database, so they start getting invitations to upcoming events that you might be hosting. Um, if you have, uh, if you have some way reaching out to them individually again here, you know, if you’re short staffed that’s going to be very difficult to be able to do, but at the very minimum, if you can at least get maybe even an intern to help start, get gathering information and even looking up their addresses on something like a four one one dot com or switchboard dot com free directory. Also, there are directories that you can look up information related to property assessments. So of course, there you’ll be able to get the name and address of individuals who live in your specific towns. So there are some free sites to go to to get that information as well. If you’re having trouble getting address, what are what are a couple of those free from one of the areas and this is probably available in most states here in new jersey, where i’m based use website called my central jersey dot com, which is actually a compilation of several newspapers in the state, and they have a link on their website called data universe and within data universities brought together a bunch of different public records. Database is one of them have to do with property records, so that is a really neat way to get into the property. Record databases it’s really easy to search you. You start with the county and then focus it down by town. And then you can either input the name of the street or in put the name of an individual auntie where their addresses in that specific town so that’s a free resource for you to be able to use it sounds like this prospect review work is something that’s ongoing. We don’t just do it once a year or something, right? I would recommend that they that they do it on going. As well on dh, you know, want one area that i did want to focus on today as well. Tony is not to overlook the successful business owners in the community, and here there are some very easy ways to be able to track what’s going on with successful businesses. And unfortunately, the press these days seems to really focus so much on the negative. How much is not going well in in thie economy to business markets, etcetera. But there are some companies that are doing okay, so if you are able to track and get subscriptions to or at least access daily online, the business publication that covers your state here in new jersey, it’s uh, nj biz new york city has crane’s new york. So whatever that business publication is that covers your state subscribed to it, and i even get daily alert from nj dot com that pushes information out to me on a daily basis of what’s going on. You need to get into a mindset of keeping up with what’s going on in the community. I don’t know how many of your listeners have read the millionaire next store, but a lot of the people that are profiled in that book are successful, self made business owners. So for those of you who have non-profit boards that really want to focus on let’s, just reach out to the big local corporations in the area. I’m not saying don’t do that, but it might be just as easy or easier to focus on where are the overlooked, successful business owners that are in businesses that are not getting a lot of press but yet are very successful. So the millionaire next store is really great for helping you identify what some of those businesses might look like. Um, also, publications such as nj biz will compile annually what they call their book of list and again all the business major business publications do this. This book of lists will profile for you, say, the top fifty accounting firms engineering firms. You know all these different sectors and gives you contact information. Full contact info who’s. Running the company, etcetera. There is very little distinction between who’s running the company. You know, the business owner on these private businesses and the business themselves. So your approach might either be to the business or to the individual. But either way, you’re really getting to the same person you mentioned the alerts that nj biz offers and you’ve mentioned earlier today and another times to the google alerts. I mean, these are all great free resource is that used to be what we would call clipping services, right? Absolutely, absolutely, i have free alert set up through google, so that information is pushed to me on a daily basis. So for example, i’m really interested in keeping up with what is going on in the prospect, a research arena. I’m also very interested in knowing what’s going on in the high network arena, so i actually have google alerts set up on the phrase prospect research on the phrase hi network, google goes out daily minds the internet for where those phrases are mentioned on websites or blog’s or news articles, etcetera magazines pushes the links to me, and then i can peruse them very quickly and determine which ones of those are very interesting for me to take a look at more and more in depth, so again, it it enables you to put something on autopilot whenever you have that chance to do that, please do. It just in the minute or so that we have left before we have to wrap up. There are ways of looking for family foundations that may be local to the community also, right? Right? Absolutely. So there are free resources and fi based resources to be able to do this. You can do it through your local foundation center. Cooperating collection. You’ll have the database available there. Ah, foundation search dot com is a sea bass to resource for you to be able to do this as well. And guide star guidestar dot org’s. So if you have your own non-profit listed with guide star, you could have access to their premium level of searching for free. Actually, if you help to maintain your own non-profits dahna status and presence on guide star so it has a double benefit there. So there are definitely some ways for you to start prospecting for family foundations, the’s air people taking philanthropy to another level on i highly recommend that you consider looking at this pool of individuals. Well, maria semple is our regular prospect research contributor. You will find her at the prospect finder dot com she’s also the author of panning for gold find high net worth prospects now she’ll be with us again next month. Maria, thank you very much. Thank you again for having me, tony. Always upleaf. Thank you. You always a pleasure. Bye. Now. I want to thank maria semple. And also thank michael king and the folks at national conference on philanthropic planning for all their accommodations when we were on the exhibit floor at their conference in san antonio last week. Next week. So you want to be a consultant guest, hank goldstein and i talked about the ins and outs the ups and downs of making a career move to non-profit consultant. And we’ll have jonah helper and ari team in in the studio with me to talk about next year’s or this year’s. Sorry. This year’s next-gen charity conference it’s next month in november. There the conference co founders and this show is a media sponsor for the conference. Keep up with what’s coming up for pete’s sake. Please sign a province. Cider email alerts go to the facebook page. You know where to find facebook, then just searched the name of this show. 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