148: Intuitive Brainstorming & The Pallotta Pall? II – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Karen Garvey, author, speaker, intuitive and coach

Gene Takagi, principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host. Isn’t it comforting to hear all that you know, you’re in the right place. It’s friday, june twenty eighth twenty thirteen so pleased to be back in the studio even though it was your last week, too. I just love being here so muchmore than pre recording oh, i hope you’re with me. Last week it was get out and positively communicate. Sharon abbott is the author of mixing it up the entrepreneurs new testament we talked about networking your non-profit recruiting and hiring motivated people and positive communications. Sharon read my face to tell what kind of communicator i am and sec secrets. Maria simple is the author of panning for gold. Finding your best donorsearch prospects now and our monthly prospect research contributor she struck research gold in sec corporate filings. I hope you’re with me last week, i’d endure a cubine it’s ulcer if i heard that you had missed last week’s show this week intuitive brainstorming karen garvey, author speaker, intuitive and coach describes the why and how of intuitive brainstorming it’s not your mother’s brain storming and the ppa latto paul part do have you seen dan pallotti’s? Viral video from ted it’s called the way we think about charity is dead wrong. Our legal contributor jean takagi. Principle of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group continues our discussion from may tenth on how we got here and what would need to change. And should it change to achieve dan, pull out his vision of a more free market charity sector. Also the overhead myth letter between the guests on tony’s take two. It is my block this week, which is are you having fun? I’m talking about mermaid parade type fund. My pleasure. Now to welcome karen garvey. On september eleventh, two thousand one, she received simultaneous information about what was happening. That was her first experience. Learning something not through earthly means. Over time, she discovered how to intentionally tune into this connection through this conduit to universal knowledge, she provides insights for coaching seminars, media and books. You’ll find karen at the answer’s unlimited dot com. Karen garvey, welcome. Well, thank you for having me, tony it’s. A pleasure. Thanks for joining me in the studio. Um, september eleventh. What? What was happening for you then? I have an mba, and i was working as an independent business consultant at that time. So i was working out of my home and what i would typically do wood was go out for iran a few mornings a week before i began the day. And when i returned from my run about five to nine that morning i was standing in my driveway, punching the key code in to get the garage door to go up. And as i was standing there, i received information about what was happening, a visual, a sense of it, almost like a download of knowledge about what was happening. And since i live about an hour from manhattan, it was impossible for me to have any physical clues about what was going on. I put it out of my mind. I thought it was just a awful thing to have appear in my brain, if you will. But within under a minute, i had the phone ringing, somebody telling me to put the television on. When i put the tv on, it was at the moment where the broadcasters were making suppositions about what had happened to the first tower, and they were saying that a small plane and gotten off its course. But i was able to immediately connect that what i had experienced in the driveway was that i understood and comprehended what was going on even without my knowledge or being there. So i guess the big moment for me was that, you know, coming from a more intellectual background and only really caring about things that were academic and scientifically proven. It was my first experience knowing that our conscious energy is not connected to our body. While you were punching in the key code, you knew that this was happening in new york city. Yes. And you knew that it was more than just a small plane off course over jimmy. Yes. I knew it was the beginning. I knew it was intended. I knew it was planned. You know, i knew that it was oven attack nature s so yes, i got that information with sort of like a visual as well. Do you know where edward snowden is going to go for asylum? And you tell us what country he’s headed to? Wow, if i could do that. I probably wouldn’t be sitting on the air with you telling me you wouldn’t think that this is a place to reveal this is no, nobody listens to this show. Only nine thousand. But this is the place to reveal where but okay, but what do you mean you’re your bio says universal knowledge. What does that mean? What? What have come, teo, understand? And, you know, after nine eleven, it took me a while to find any language for what had happened. And then it took a lot more occurrences of receiving simultaneous information of things that were happening before i could comprehend the experience. S o i’m pretty much self taught learning how to remove my conscious thoughts from what i’ve learned from my learned experiences. You call it getting out of your body or getting out of your way whatever you wanna call it. But i learned that i can connect with non physical sources for information, and any information i get from that source is far more comforting. Liberating. It resonates with me more far more than the things that i have learned on earth from people s o what i find is it’s, is it? Some kind of a miracle or gift? I don’t really think so. I think we’re all very intuitive. It was just a confluence of events that day, you know, the magnificence of the amount of conscious energy that was being shared that day, plus the fact that i had just been for iran, so my mind was quiet and also my family and i had some personal connections to that date, so it was also intimate, so and i don’t know if that confluence hadn’t happened if i would’ve opened up on that day, but all it did was help me to find this extension of life that taps into universal knowledge, and i think that we all do it in one way or another. We just might not have a description for it or know howto how to capture that knowledge. Yeah, i mean, i certainly feel intuitions strongly, i think when i’m leaving my apartment that maybe that i’ve forgotten something. Yes, and sometimes unwisely, i dismissed him ends, and i don’t even think, oh, no, i’m not i’m not forgetting anything. I just dismissed them, and then i get on the subway. I realized i forgot to bring my my apple elected an apple each time on the subway and got my subway apple or, you know, i did forget my workout clothes or something, but there then there are times when i will pay attention to it, and i’ll stop and i’ll think, what am i missing? Yes and something. Ah lot of times not not every time, though, but a lot of times something does occur to me, and i could go back and get it before i leave my apartment. I mean, that’s, that’s, intuition. But but how do we how do we connect to that? The sort of on demand, which is what you’re what you’re describing, i mean, and you’re working coaching and workshops, you know that i can’t i’m not saying i can conjure it up. Yes, yeah, and maybe conscious, not ivory. I don’t mean that in the demeaning i understand. Exactly understand? Well, you know the what it is, it’s kind of like finding the place that your brain goes, if you will it’s almost as though i could feel shift in my brain when i’m open to that conduit. So it’s practice, practice practice i like to think about it, like, did you ever see those images? Those aren’t images that it looks like just a bunch of small dots or pixels. And when you step back and you look at it and use you, bend your eyes, it turns into a three day when you’re seeking it and seeking it and seeking it it’s flat and two day. But the day you see the three day you can practice to keep finding it and it becomes easier it’s the same way with this connection. When i practiced, i can see the three day without effort anymore because it’s so practiced, i practiced the muscle in there for me now nufer let’s translate this to something that small and midsize non-profits i think, can benefit trump. Why? I invited you to talk about intuitive brainstorming. What? What is this? Generally? Okay, what it is it’s it’s. First of all, it’s about suspending doubt that we are creatures that are finite and that we’re separate. First, you have to understand that we are connected and that there is this universe with infinite wisdom that’s trying to guide us in the direction of our focus. So what we do when i go into organizations as we begin by setting a goal, and that goal will be to overcome whatever challenge or limit the organization is experiencing. The moment whether it’s, you know, staffing issues or trying to find new creative ways to raise revenue or a new marketing idea. But whatever it is, we set a goal, and we have what it would be typical brainstorming rules. Ah, that we apply for the process. And those rules include that we’ll get to those. Okay. More, general. Yeah. Yeah, no problem. And so we just set the course of working toward our goal. In a way where there’s no interruption. We have an hour to think about it, and we start to put our energy and our focus toward that direction. And however many people department heads, or if it’s a very small organization, everyone whoever’s in that room is somehow connected to the end goal and feels as though it’s possible to get to that end goal. Can we apply this where we have maybe difficult relationship with some some fellow employees? Or maybe, ah, relationship with board members or other volunteers? Can it work with personal relationships? Also it definitely can and that’s. One of the wonderful things about it. Is that just the process of knowing that there’s no judgment or criticism or bad ideas during that one hour, it allows people to open up the possibility that they might not have thought of otherwise. It gets, you know, it gets the thinking part of you out of the way. So the more creative ideas, things that come more from intuition and from love and from heart and soul, can come forth, and those usually are the better solutions. In the end, we’re gonna take a break, and when we come back, we’ll start. I just want to probe a little more the way the universe is guiding us, but then we’ll get into some details about intuitive brainstorming. So after the break, karen garvey, of course, stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our coaching and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe right growth for your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight, six. Zero foreign, no obligation. Free consultation. Check out our website of ww dot covenant seven dot com. Are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality. In fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me, larry. Shock a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry sharp. Your neo-sage. Tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com. For details. That’s, ivory tower radio dot com everytime was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Time to send some live listener love let’s start abroad today. Beijing chung ching and shanghai, china welcome live listener love ni hao seoul, south korea always lovely always always glad to see south korea checking in on your haserot and in japan, tokyo is only one person in tokyo or multiple. Sometimes there are multiple multiple people in tokyo. We don’t know exactly where you are, but do you know each other? I’m are you all in a coffee shop together for for our listeners in japan. Konnichi wa ann arbor, michigan. Newport, north carolina. Malvin p a thank you for checking in live listener love to each of you and there’s more coming talking with karen garvey, author speaker, intuitive coach we’re talking about intuitive brain storming let’s say a little more wood. Well, actually not not. Let us let you can. I don’t understand it about how the universe is is guiding us. I the way i see things now is that we we either live awake or asleep when we’re asleep. We really think that this is a solo flight. Maybe you can have. Tea members or friends or people that support you, but you think pretty much that this is your journey, your legs, your brain, and you got to do it on your own. But as soon as you start to awaken, as soon as you start to understand that there’s, this infinite power that we are connected to that is eternal that’s with us before we’re born and will be with us during this journey and also be with us after we you know, after we pass on, then you start to be able to find ways that you witness this interaction, what i usually do with clients, even an intuitive brainstorming as i start to ask them to become aware of it if you’re not aware of it by asking a question of the universe every day and expect that you’ll get an answer, because this will train you to start to witness the signs in the way that the universe is connecting with you or communicating with you. So, you know, in the beginning, keep it light hearted and playful because you don’t want to have your first question be life or death. It’s, it’s a little bit harder. To discover the answer that way, if you’re very very invested in the outcome, or if you haven’t expected desire of how it will turn out. But if you start with something playful, you’ll start to see that the answer can pop up in an e mail or by someone’s conversation online. Behind you in the store, it can come through maybe not new york city so much, but where i live, it comes on vanity plates on license plates. Quite often, it can come on a sign on a building or a passage in a book, but you allow yourself to be able to accept the answer so that you’re you’re strengthening your ability to understand how we are connected and how we are guided, you know, and often times you’ll see two or three responses to the same question. So it’s about practicing it’s about seeing something differently. Also another way to strengthen this is to take stock of how you are intuitive and there’s a lot of ways, we are intuitive that many people aren’t taking taking ownership of like what you were saying earlier about that gut feeling, i left something in the apartment, but there are other things, too, like thinking about somebody that you haven’t seen in a while, and then they contact you. Ah, another thing would be just to have a sense of turning in a different direction and finding that when you made that turn opposite of what your logic would say, that there was a good reason to do it or not taking that turn and finding out that you should have listened to that feeling. Another thing is, we we oftentimes can get messages or visits from past loved ones in our dreams, and they feel very different than dreams. They don’t feel like they’re imaginative play. It feels like you’re visiting with this soul and that’s, another avenue toward understanding intuition. I have, ah, very dear friend who says there are no coincidences. Do you agree with that? I just phrase it differently. I just say that a coincidence is a purposeful intersecting of events. So, yes, there are coincidences and they have purpose, but you define them as having purpose, yes. Interesting. So, yeah, i mean, i i had something like that just this past week. I was thinking about someone contacting them, and then i got an email from them that’s it, uh but you okay? So you’re suggesting starting with a question a day now, i was thinking something like, you know, where should i have lunch today? But you don’t want to. You don’t want to be that trivial in the beginning. It’s kind of nice to make it that trivial because it’s easier to find the signs when you’re not that emotionally encumbered by the answer so you can find things that are just lighthearted. So if you’re thinking, you know, if you’re thinking of going to the smoothie place versus going to the chinese place, it’s not that difficult to find a sign, you know, you might walk out of here and trip over a pineapple, and that might indicate you should go to the smoothie place. Well, but chinese, they have sweet’n sour point way. You’re gonna wait for your second land. Okay? Right now. All right. So starting with something simple like that is okay. It’s actually easier. Much easier. Preferred. Okay, so, let’s. Go back to the intuitive brainstorming. You will lose to some of the rules. And i didn’t want to get too specific at that point. But what what are, uh, what does? Well, the second step back. How do we get started? Who? Who should we invite into our brainstorming process? You said you mentioned doing an hour session. Yeah. Who should we invite to this? It really depends on what the goal is. So any player that has some kind of responsibility or some kind of task that’s oriented toward getting to that goal should participate. So that everybody’s, aware and everyone’s energy thought energy and feelings and beliefs are all vested into the process on dh it’s about setting forth. I like one hour. Because for the average person, it takes us about twenty minutes to set ourselves aside and get out of the thinking part. We we really do critique everything and oftentimes criticize everything. So the judgment part of us, when we start to get into a more playful, imagine imaginative and creative arena, it will start. Teo, allow us to dismiss judgment and being free of judgment is a very, very important application here, so that’s part of the reason for blame being playful. I usually encourage the teammates too. I kind of have a little bit of a contest that the more outrageous the suggestion, the better, because here’s, the way i look at that, if you are going teo, aim for one particular star that’s between us on the moon and you’re only aiming for that star, you know, we might not make it, but if you aim for the moon there’s a better likelihood to get to that particular star. So if you go for the really outrageous answers, it’s going to help you to seek beyond what your typical boundary would be, and to get past those limits that would normally come upon you it’s also important that there’s no interruptions for that hour because interruptions change our focus. Like just as i was saying, how going for a run helped me to get out of myself being uninterrupted and to be playful and to have a very positive atmosphere in this circumstance helps you to stay imaginative and creative. It helps to keep you more right brain rather than left brain. You have all the time in the world to be left brain after the intuitive brainstorming session, but right now, it’s about getting creative and get an imaginative and being playful and being free and believing an infinite possibility. How often should we do these sessions? It’s it’s multiple times, right? Yeah, in the beginning, i suggest that people do it once a week because you’re exercising muscles that you’re not that familiar with. I have the same purpose in goal, and if the goal is a very long term goal, i say about a month of once a week and then you could go down to once every two weeks. If you’re finding you really have momentum even once a month after that to maintain that energy moving forward. Okay, should there be a leader of the group or is everybody equal? I usually have someone that’s, a facilitator, not necessarily a leader, but that is very familiar with the structure, you know, tries to encourage playfulness, tries to encourage people to be without limits, nonjudgmental noncritical on someone and ensuring that everybody else is especially non judgmental. Yes, everything is allowed. Yes, more. As you’re saying, the more playful, the better. All right, so we’ve done we do several of these sessions say over a month, what do are we starting to make a decision about how we’re going to proceed or we looking more for signs at that moment? Where are we now after for these let’s say, well, we’ll have a recorder, so every idea will be recorded during the session, so we’ll have a place that we can go back to initially, you know, want to take any speedy action. It’s not about developing your plan in that moment. It is about now going out, having all players seek and say, you know what? We’re in this together with this universe, there are some good ideas there might not be. The ideas that were thinking are the best in this moment, but give us evidence, give us signs, put a stepping stone down in front of us won that we feel is viable, and we feel that we can move in that direction. So in the next week you come back any share stories or even during the week, if you’re bumping into people, you can share stories because sharing stories gives validation, and it helps everybody to suspend doubt and to encourage not needing to think that this is off an off limits topic, so the more encouragement you get, the more people will see signs where they are starting to appear everywhere, from dreams to vanity license plates. Exactly. So we’re sort of opening our mind two on our consciousness too signs that i don’t know what would they have been there otherwise we just wouldn’t have recognised them. How do we hear is that? You know, for may i still really prefer the scientific ideas behind what it is that i dont here’s how i began to understand signs, because for me, it’s like really, you know, if i’m listening to tony show today and all of sudden he says the thing that answers my question, what did ugo did the universe take over tony’s brain? Enforce that sentence out of his mouth that doesn’t. That doesn’t make sense to me, but here’s how it really does work that there’s no such thing as time, so your answers are in the universe. But what the objective of this guidance is is to get you to pay attention to where the signs are so often times you have to understand that conscious. Energy is vibrations thought energy is waves, wave energy intersects with other intersects with other wave energy of other conscious thoughts treyz closely in jargon jail. Now we have a jogging jail here you haven’t you haven’t transcended basically and that’s not what i mean transcended. You haven’t transgressed okay having transgressed, but you’re, you’re almost your close transcendent. The idea is simply that, like we can’t see radio waves, but we can hear the music. The same is true with thought energy, and if your thought energy is intersecting with someone else’s thought energy or with a non physical source of energy, you’re not aware of it. It still feels like your thoughts so you can actually be prompted to think toe look at assign toe look to the left to listen to the lyric of a song and that’s the that’s. The way that it works is that you, it’s basically, like, think about an invisible couple of fingers being put on your cheek asking you to turn to the left or turn to the right or look up or listen well, i whenever i had a break up when i was younger, i always thought, you know but everybody thinks it’s the song lyrics are talking to me about how how melancholy i’m feeling but i think that’s ah, well, maybe it’s coincidence with purpose. Yes. Ok. Could be helping you through the process, is there? Ah, a minimum number of people that that this really works well with me is like, is three enough for there really? Isn’t even two people can really very powerful on dh, not self censoring. Really? Yeah. No. Yeah. Even two people is very effective. As a matter of fact, there are often times just teams that do this and you don’t even have to have the same objective. If you’re working with just one other team member, you can give a half hour to one person’s purpose and one half hour to the other person’s per purpose. If you have a very small organization, it still is effective. Having at least two players, though, helps your own personal bias is to be removed through the vision or the eyes of somebody else. Okay, i like the idea that this could be ongoing. So we could just schedule this hour a week, and maybe i have several devoted to the same. Topic and then switch topics but always have this sort of playful our you have organizations that have have done that devoted time to this over the long term. Yes, i have organizations that this is just a part of their business process. Now for two, three, four years it’s just been an ongoing part. Everyone gets used to that. This is when it’s scheduled this is when we meet, and they do look at it as the fun hour of the week share a client story, one of one of those longer term organizations can you ok, here’s a good example for fora non-profit often times, the biggest challenge is thie ongoing process of fund-raising especially if the fund-raising methods are finite and you need to raise revenue on an annual basis, and you’re starting from scratch, scratch fiscally every year. So one example of something that came out of the brainstorming for one come company one organization was that it’s, an organization that helps young people between the ages of fourteen and eighteen who have started to have issues with the law or with drugs or other different problems, and it gives them a place to maybe find different traits or characteristics within them while being guided by a support staff that can help them. And the challenge definitely is in fund-raising, you know, they have their gala, they have their golf outing. But what was generated from this process was the idea that thie donor-centric a child and have real communication with one of the people that he has is in contact with. So it’s monthly communication, maybe even photographs, a man indication of what kinds of really cool things is being done with their money and their donation. So what that does is it takes it from ah, one year donation of such and such amount of font and then it’s out of their mind, and it becomes a subscription. So every month their credit card is processed, and they have this relationship with the person which encourages them to stay with the subscription. And that came out of intuitive brainstorming works outstanding. Um, share what? What it is that you love about the work that you do with clients, whether individuals or or organizations or companies there’s a lot of things that i love about it. But one is certainly that one is definitely that. Thie benefits that you see in your business, and when he’s starting to see more abundance and more possibility and more wonderful things coming your way with less effort than you used to put in. All of that starts to kind of overflow into your personal life too. So the principles are the same. Whether you’re having these successes in business or you’re having them in your personal life, the principles are the same. You’re exercising muscles that affect every area of your life, so i love to see the personal growth that develops from the business growth and vice versa. So that’s really satisfying the other thing is that it’s fun to see that people start to believe that life can be easier to get out of that mode of life is hard, this is difficult. This is not fun. I can’t get this done and to start to see that when you link into this support that’s there for you and it’s free and that you can use it, that challenges start to fade and have the same extent or the same energetic difficulties that you used to have. So just to see that byproduct of it as well, as really satisfying, we have a lot more time. You won’t share one more thing that you love about the work. Okay, one more thing. Well, i’ll take it to a personal level if you don’t mind. I was one of those people that was, you know, falling into snags constantly relationship wise or people wise or or even my relationship with money. And in the ten years that i’ve been really focusing on this, i have probably fewer challenges than anybody i’ve ever met, and i also feel that i’m probably one of the happiest people i’ve ever met, which i’m going to tell you. A decade ago, i didn’t know it was even possible. I feel like i’m in a joint venture with the universe and yes, you are all right, karen garvey. You will find her at the answer’s unlimited dotcom. Thank you so much for being against karen. Thank you, it’s been a real pleasure. We’ll take a break when we come back a little more live listener love tony’s take two and then gene takagi is with us to talk about the poll latto paul part do stay with us e-giving didn’t think dick tooting, getting dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get in. E-giving good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural method i can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna i’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rotter with us fun for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Metoo now more live listener love teo washington, d c, san francisco and jamaican new york. Where comes to coast? Jamaica have courses in queens. Very diverse neighborhood. So could be anybody listening in jamaica, new york. What comes to coast today and there’s? More live listener love coming from coming from abroad. My tony’s take two. This week is about my blog’s, which was are you having fun? Because last weekend i was a judge at the thirty first annual coney island mermaid parade and it was it was great fun. There were mermaids. There were mermaid ls. There were octopuses, burlesque dancers, ice skaters, ice skaters in in june, on on a float that had, i guess, in that ice on it they were skating. There was even a pabst blue ribbon float, pbr float. And that just got me thinking about summer fun. So my block this week is are you having fun? Because it is summer and my suggestion that you make time for fun, you have to make the time because you won’t just find it. But i think it’s very well worth doing. There are pictures from the mermaid parade on my blog’s at tony. Martignetti dot com, including a bunch of mermaids and that is tony’s take two for friday twenty eighth of june twenty sixth show of the year and my one hundred forty eighth show. The one hundred fiftieth is going to be on july twelfth. There’s nothing special planned for the hundred fiftieth show. It’ll be it’ll be a laid back sesquicentennial. My pleasure, as it always is. When he’s here to welcome jean takagi he’s, the principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits the very popular non-profit law blawg dot com. And you can follow him on twitter at gt a k g attack. Gee, tak, welcome back. Hey, tony, how are you? I’m great that’s a little rhyme i made. I just i just thought that right now. Is that what i’m what an improviser. Welcome back. Okay, um, we are continuing our conversation from back in may may tenth, to be exact when we were talking about dan piela tas viral video. The way we think about charities is dead wrong. And we talked about compensation and advertising and marketing and risk taking, and we want to continue their two. Other things that you blogged about it on the first of those is time constraints that non-profits don’t have the luxury of time. What? What air dan’s concerns there. I think tony, you know, because the public and thunders appear to have really little patients for non-profits that failed, teo immediately make an impact that they can report back there’s. Just this lack of patient capital. It’s, maybe a buzz term that people use in this industry, that’s willing to wait it out and allow non-profits to develop the right infrastructure and systems, and perhaps the right, uh, foundations to go to scale before being able to deliver the type of results that the public and that institutional thunders they’re looking for, and then makes a very good point there. I have a clip of him talking about this, relating it, to analogizing it to the corporate side. So amazon went for six years without returning any profit to investors, and people had patients. They knew that there was a long term objective down the line of building market. Dahna. But if a nonprofit organization ever had a dream of building magnificent scale that required for six years, no money was going to go to the needy was all, then be invested in building the scale. We would expect the crucifixion. That’s damp latto is there? Is there something we can do about this game? And he he has a very good example that if if if charity went six years without spending money on mission, there would be there would be a lot of trouble that there would be, and there would be legal problems a cz well, there there is a principle it’s rarely used, and because there are no sort of really english or plain english words for this high risk jargon j hope that it’s called the commensurate test for pizza basically all right, commencement fancy words and just basically means that a charity has to spend its resource is in line with its mission, and that includes the amount of financial resources it has and what amount is going to program versus administrative and fund-raising so if you were to spend and and i’m not actually a man of that example that that dan produced with amazon, i’ll explain that in a second. But if you were to spend six years building infrastructure and admit zsystems to go to magnificent scale without spending a penny on program that’s going to be a violation of the commensurate test almost surely on dh there may be others from some other problems with that as well. The reason, tony, i don’t like it. Maybe you could tell me how you feel is well, when amazon was building up for six years, it was still selling books and producing revenues and inspiring confidence in its investors if a non-profit were to do nothing but build infrastructure for six years and not do any programming it’s not been inspire confidence in its investors. And it’s not really the legal problem it’s the ability to track capitol problem if it’s not showing any demonstrate, you know, demonstration of its ability. Tio achieved this massive scale of the project can’t show benchmarks along the way. And the public and institutional investors, they’re just not going to believe in this, i say all right, so there was there was mission related work going on in amazon for those six years that’s so the analogy isn’t really great. That’s my feeling okay, mission related work being sales. They just maybe weren’t profitable, but they were doing some mission related work. Okay, now, lobbying can be effective, but in making chain making social change but that’s largely, and we’ve talked about this before prohibited. Well, actually, i correctly there okay tony so non-profit public charities and engage in quite a significant amount of lobbying without passing the threshold. But locking and advocacy were generally it takes time to do. And so, in that sense, an investment in time requires some patients there and again, patients capital, it’s, it’s, an investment in time, and supporters of those lobbying advocacy efforts are going to have to wait it out to see what may happen, and sometimes a change in the laws we’ve seen with the supreme court decisions recently. Sometimes changes in the law are much, much more powerful than just direct services. Let’s move to another of dan’s concerns. The final one, which is that non-profits don’t attract profit. Tio don’t don’t make profit to attract risk. Yeah, great, great point so for-profit can attract equity owners, and they can use that to make investments in, you know, big projects that might become sustainable and be able to deliver charitable goods to communities and made on a consistent basis and non-profits can attract that equity capital because, of course, non-profits don’t have owners now i actually don’t have a problem with that. And, tony, maybe you could tell me what you think. I don’t think we want tohave charitable non-profits with shareholders who put pressures on getting a financial return for their investments think non-profits are difficult enough to run in having shareholders there is just gonna complicate things even more. Well, we’re we’re moving. I don’t want to say we’re moving to that, but there are these, um, other ways of self-funding funding social change, like, like the social impact bonds. And i think you and i have talked about those before and just these things that fall under pr ize programme related investments that are sort of that way. I mean, there’s sort of a midline yeah, i think the midline that you’re speaking up that’s, where we’re trying to go, so we don’t really want non-profits with shareholders so i don’t think we want non-profits tohave equity investments in them, but what we do want our ways for investors to be able to invest in social good, so there are a few ways to do that one is, well, already social investors could make loans to non-profit on and, you know, if they want to get a financial return, you know, in line with the fair and, you know, market rate, return for their loan, um, i’m sure charities would love that if they could go a little bit more with the risk than a bank might pick, then charities have access two new capital, but that depends upon inspiring confidence in those social investors. Private foundations can make program related investments, as you mentioned, and those who take the form of usually loans or guarantees that will be for the benefit of non-profits to run their program and the private foundations aren’t expecting sort of a big production of income or appreciation. They’ve got any equity investments in return, but they could do that already got social impact bonds that you talked about such a cool idea where we don’t really know if they’re going to work because it’s such a a new idea, but the government issues the bonds and pays on ly if the social goals are met, and so the investors and the bonds are taking a risk that the social the non-profits that air contract it with the money that the bonds produce are going to be able to to keep their goals. And new york has got a great experiment going on with goldman sachs and recidivism that’s going to be a great example for for us to see whether this is going to really produce impact or not. I think the last part is maybe those hybrid organizations, those air, not non-profits, but they’re kind of in this cool space somewhere in between traditional for-profit organizations and non-profits and these air like the benefit corporation, flexible purpose corporations, social purpose corporation, low profit, limited liability companies that kind of occupying this space in the spectrum between social good and financial returns for shareholders and i think that’s going to be an exciting space. Did you watch maria simple and i talked about finding foundations that will do these program related investments, and that show was on march. Eighth of this year what’s that goldman sachs and recidivism example that you mentioned jean i’m not aware of that. Well, basically goldman sachs is is the bond is the investor in the bond so they bought the bond and they’re going to profit on ly if the non-profit center involved are able to reduce the receipt of ism so the government will pay out based on the savings that they get from reducing prisoner wei have recidivism on so you know it’s it’s kind of a win win situation if it all works, if there is actually impact. So if the government makes the right that on the service provider on the non-profits and they do a good job of reducing recidivism, then the government will save money overall used some of that savings to pay the bondholders which in this case is goldman sachs and so, you know, theoretically a great model sticking the right partners that’s going to be the tough, the tough thing and then finding the right buyers, goldman sachs came out and, you know, took a shot of the investor here. But will the public buy it? Same problem with the hybrid organizations. We talked about, we see a lot of private individuals twisted in doing social good, who are investing in this. But we haven’t seen big institutional investors come in in a big way yet, and i think that’s follow-up do you know how much goldman sachs invested in the in the bonds? I don’t think i could be quoted for that, but i think it was somewhere with around seven million dollars, okay, all right, that’s, right, let’s say. We’ll take our break, and when we come back, we’re going to talk about the overhead myth. That letter that just came out very recently, and also an oregon law that’s related to this and putting a cap on. Well, sort of putting a cap on the amount that can go to non program related activities. So stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Buy-in are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Zoho dahna hyre more live listener love to columbus, ohio, new york, new york. Welcome, fujisawa, japan, can it? You are beijing, china. Many people in beijing. Are you together? Do you know each other? Beijing welcome. Ni hao. Jean let’s. Talk about the the overhead myth letter. Um, this was signed by the leaders of the better business bureau wise giving alliance, um, guide star and charity navigator and ken berger from charity navigator, ceo of ceo. There has been has been a guest. This letter is is just come out very recently ordered. I just learned about it very recently. Now it came out very recently, just a few days ago. Ok, they didn’t put a date on it. That’s the first thing i learned in grade school, you supposed to put a date on your letter and then you do the inside address and then the greeting, but they don’t have they have neither an inside address nor a date, but okay, it came out very recently on dh. Why is this creating a lot of buzz in non-profits? But it’s creating a lot of buzz? Because i think these charity, some of them are charities, ratings organizations, some of them just provide information about charities to the public. But there’s been a widespread feeling among charities that thie over admit that they’re talking about was actually perpetuated by some of these organizations in terms of rating charities, by virtue of what they’re programmatic expenses were versus their administrative and fund-raising expenses, very much the argument that pelota was talking about as well. And the feeling was that the ratings agencies were e-giving low scores to anybody that had this high overhead ratio. I know so it’s ah it’s, a little it’s, little crusty of ah, of ken berger to be signing this, to quote the letter which is against signed by all three the percent of charity expenses that go to administrative and fund-raising costs commonly referred to as overhead is a poor measure of a charity’s performance and that’s very early in the letter. And then they go on to encourage donors it’s addressed to the donors of america. They encourage, um, donors to think about on dh consider lots of other factors besides overhead myth overhead overhead. Um, yeah, it seems a little hypocritical. Yeah, and i think they go back. I think the first sentence is probably not reflective what they actually believe that overhead is a poor measure of the charity performance. I think what they’re trying to say. And i think the rest of the letter describes it is that overhead alone is a port measures charity performance because they go, they go on and say in the letter, but overhead offers insight and can be a valid data point for rooting out fraud and poor financial management. But in most cases, and i think the message to donors is this and i don’t want to detract from that messages that focusing on overhead alone does more damage than good. And i absolutely we believe in that as well. Yes, for sure. And i am trying to get the three signers of the letter as guests together. I already reached out tio the better business bureau wise giving alliance and charity navigator. I don’t have a connection to guide star, but i’m trying. I would like to have a show with the three of them to let me see if i could make that connection for you. Honey. Really? You know somebody it ah, guidestar. I do. Oh, okay. Thank you. Well, this is good. Look at this intuitive brainstorming. It works. It works. I put the message out and i got an answer right back. This is incredible, it’s. Just that in advance to pardon me. You must have known that in advance. No, i no. I mean, what do you mean, what? I must have known what they’re what your intuition told you to go in this direction. Well, the my first guest, we were talking about intuitive brainstorming. Instead of you start to put something out. Then you’ll get signs back. And i was going to start looking at vanity license plates, but but i don’t have to thank you, jean. That would be a credit that’s. Incredible. This is the works system works. Um, okay. Now, over up in oregon and i learned is not oregon. I was admonished by by tim sample who’s amy sample ward’s father. He called in from oregon once. There’s no. E on oregon. So it’s not there’s. No e on oregon. So it’s, not oregon. So those of you were pronouncing it wrong. Please be admonished. Over and up in oregon. They have ah, new law. That sort of puts a cap on how? Much charities khun spend on non program it’s kind of going against the flow of the theme that we’ve been. We’ve been focused on you, we’re going right? Is this back and forth? I know. So yes, there’s a house bill called two thousand sixty i believe it was signed into the law and is going to go into effect in a few months and basically it allows the attorney general to disqualify a charity from being able to receive deductible contributions and that’s just for state income tax purposes because federal income taxes are outside of oregon’s jurisdiction, so deductible contributions from the state income tax perspective if they don’t meet a thirty percent threshold, thirty percent programmatic expenses versus sort of administrative and fund-raising if they’re not real reaching that threshold, uh, for three years over a three year period, and they may not be able to receive deductible contributions from the state resident, and they have tio disclose that publicly, yeah, absolutely so they disclose it, or they can face a penalty of up to twenty five thousand dollars, and once they disclosed that the attorney general can come in and say, well, anybody donating to this? Charity will not be eligible to receive a deductible contribution for a state income tax purposes. Um, and i didn’t know it was over three years, the three year period. Okay, so three, if you’re if you’re spending less than thirty percent of your revenue on program for three consecutive years than in the third year, that’s when you have to disclose it, uh, when your fourth year in the force you closing the previous three years, okay? And if you fail on the previous three years going for the attorney general, but it could disqualify you. So after those three years, you would report it. Ok, does it have to be three consecutive years, or can you do less than thirty? More than thirty, less than thirty? More than thirty, less than thirty that’s? Three? But it was over five years. I think it’s three consecutive years and they don’t look at each year in isolation. They take a look at a rolling three year calendar. Oh, i see. Okay, um, what’s, your what’s, your opinion of this law that i think is draconian? Yeah, i i think it’s going to resonate with some of the public because you know, this week we also saw another story big story from cnn talked about the city worth charities in the united states and these air, all out liars, but also tremendously high overhead, racial and hardly any programmatic spending with, you know, cumulatively, like billions of dollars involved or hundreds of millions. So they just picked out the most egregious cases and, you know, outrages the public and the public puts pressure on the legislature to create laws to prevent those things from happening. And then we get laws like the one in oregon? Yeah, i don’t care for those, you know, fifty worse than you know, the irs does something similar too well, no, that know the irs different? No, i’m sorry they generalize about charity scams, but they don’t specifically name charities. I don’t like these headline grabbing things. It it tarnishes the entire sector it does for the vast majority of attorneys that are doing very good work. It’s it’s hard to sit there and get a hit from a donor confidence because of those real outlier. So you think they’ll be a public backlash in oregon? Well, i think the charitable sector is going toe push. Back a little bit on this, but i think actually this may be a trend, and we may see more states create these laws. Well, actually, the non-profit association of oregon endorsed the law. Yeah, they felt like this was kind of a benchmark minimum, although i think they said in a statement, i think there’s a comment field on the overhead mid fight where somebody, a representative of that association, made a statement that there shouldn’t be a single number threshold that indicate a good performing charity. This is a poor performing one, but they felt like thirty percent over three years was kind of the bottom line number that any charity should be able to meet. And i’m not sure that that that’s really something that you can back-up yeah, yeah, we have to leave it there. Gene, thank you very much. Great, thank you so much, durney i enjoyed it, jean takagi, you’ll find him at non-profit law blogged dot com and at g tack on twitter next week, beth cantor, author of the network non-profit and measuring the network to non-profit we talked it fund-raising day last month about engagement and outcomes, and i’ll have that. Interview unless i can get the three authors from the overhead myth to come, i don’t know if we could get them as quickly as next week, but they’ll take precedence over that beth cantor interview. We’ll run that another time if i could get the three of them, but i’ll try to get through them some time. Also next week, scott koegler, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news returns. We’re going to talk about apse for your tablet. Check us out on the social networks youtube, facebook, twitter you know the litany. The links are on my block at tony martignetti dot com insert sponsor message over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities. Listen each week contact me on my block to talk about sponsoring the show. Sam loves that music so much he played it a little prematurely. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff sam liebowitz. The one playing the music is our line producer and the show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media. The remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope that you will tune in next week at talking alternative dot com friday one two to eastern durney dahna e-giving thing duitz good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Dahna cubine are you a female entrepreneur ready to break through? 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You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? 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146: Successful Software Selection Strategy and Storify & Quora – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Don Fornes, CEO of Software Advice

Amy Sample Ward, CEO of Nonprofit Technology Network and co-author of “Social Change Anytime Everywhere”

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Durney hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. I’d stuff. I’d suffer stick a myth eah, if i heard that you had missed maria’s faa cues maria simple, the prospect finder and our monthly prospect research contributor there’s a lot of speaking and training, we talked about what she’s frequently asked, and artists sally west and keith, right? We’re with me from australia tell us about the love is campaign this week successful software selection strategy don fornes, ceo of software advice, leads us through the software selection process for non-profits how do you know when yours isn’t working quite right? Also, storify and cora, our social media contributor amy sample ward i got a promotion at the non-profit technology network in ten. After that, we’ll talk about the value of storify and cora to lesser known social networks for your non-profit between the guests on tony’s take to my block this week is a charity did what charities do? Beth israel medical centers fund-raising became public in the new york times. Is there anything they should? Be ashamed of my great pleasure now to welcome don forged to the show, he started software advice in two thousand five. After ten year career in the software industry, he held positions at an investment firm and as a corporate development executive at a pioneering c r m software company. He likes to observe the evolution of software markets, including the impact of innovation. Don fornes, pleasure to welcome you to the show. Thanks, tony, glad to be here. Thank you, don. What are some symptoms that, eh, small and midsize non-profits current system, whether it’s software based or however it’s based aren’t, isn’t working very well. And a lot of the non profit organizations that we speak to our on the smaller end of the scale, and they’re managing things through excel spreadsheets, maybe they have ah, ah website that was coded by, you know, employer volunteers with few they’re using microsoft outlook and trying to find emails and information in there. There isn’t a professional infrastructure for managing their operations, and that can lead to what errors in in data, what other kinds of problems certainly errors on data but difficulty finding the information that they need inability to could manage an effective workflow and no what’s going on and making sure things are getting done, having insight into you know who are their, what, not just who is donating, but what what segment of constituent is donating and being able to discover things about their their organization if you’re using excel spreadsheets than there might be different versions of that floating around your office? Yeah, that’s, that’s one of the big issues with spreadsheets now excel is an outstanding tool and that’s why so many organizations use it but you do have that version control issue, and you have just a lot of opportunity. For errors in your formulas and things like that. So you get to a certain scale when spreadsheets won’t cut it anymore. Also in pulling out like donorsearch formacion you alluded to this, you know, you want to be ableto segment, right? So that you can target people with a specific a specific approach. Sure, you’ve got you’ve got constituents who are big donors, small donors, everything in between, you’ve got constituents or e-giving for different reasons. So you really do it want to develop a marketing strategy that that identifies your various segments, and and you want to work with them in each, each segment in a unique way that appeals to you to their motivations and just expect forces, right? Thank you, and just extracting data. I mean, you should be ableto query your your database system in lots of different, with lots of different variables. Yeah, there’s so many exciting things going on in terms of analytics these days that the ability to not just automate the transactions, that is, you know, that the donations or tracking contact information or interactions, but then to be able to go back and do discovery on that information or quickly. Generated report. That type of analysis is so valuable and it’s getting easier. But it’s not as easy if you don’t have a good infrastructure in place, capturing that data in the first place. Yeah, you can’t really be. You can’t be very sophisticated. Um, what are the different types of software that might be out there that we’re gonna be talking about helping people select? Well, you know what? The court, the nonprofit organization needs to account financially differently than a for-profit organization. So now there is fundez counting, which is critical infrastructure, but then in terms of really growing out business, getting beyond the administration, too, more strategic, how you’re going to raise money and activate your constituents, you’ve got a range of different applications, and so you’ve got donorsearch which will help you track who are your best donors or who could be your best donors, or maybe a more high volume campaign of how do you get a lot of small donations from a very broad set of targets? And then if it’s a membership based organization, you’ve got member management, not your providing some kind of value to that membership and trying to track who they are and who’s paid their dues and what you can do for them and what their interests are. You have case management where you have, um, let’s say you’re a client based organization where you have clients that you’re taking care of our helping, you’ve got volunteermatch management where you’re, you’ve got a large force of volunteers and you want to keep them organized, get the most out of that enthusiasm those are those are four examples of very specific applications. And, of course, the structure of the nonprofit organization will determine what they need. In that case, there are larger, broader, more sophisticated systems that integrate these capabilities. But whether or not you go to that level of technology investment, that’s, that’s. A really important question on organization, needs to ask itself. What about event planning? Sure, event planning is another application i didn’t name, but if you do a lot of events, you need to track registration, you need to track payments for those events and and all the tasks that come along with putting on a great event. So that’s, another application that could be part of ah abroad integrated sweet or could be purchased on a standalone basis on dh. Then, of course, for non-profits that get a lot of their revenue, or even just some of their revenue from from grants, there’s always grant administration and management too. There is on both sides of that relationship for the foundation organization that might be giving that grant, as well as the non-profit that’s receiving that grant so there’s there’s software to automate that as well, i think it’s, you know, moving to another topic, which is you know what you actually need thie organization needs too sit down and think about what are our real pain points why’re we where we falling short, so not just not just thinking in terms of ji that technology is very shiny and cool? I’d love to use that, but where are we experiencing the most pain? Right now is keeping track of who are. Donors are who might be a donor. Or is it really organizing our volunteers to get the most out of them? More, you know, is that we have a difficult time organizing and managing big prevent process. If you have an outstanding grand writer, and you’re only applying for a few grantspace year, maybe you don’t need to automate that. And as we’re on we, i know you have five different tips that we’re going to talk through. But and your got into one of them. Thank you. As you’re identifying what your real problem is, is it? Is it possible to? I would think it is. But i want to make sure to get a software solution that’s going to solve that problem, but then also have add on sort of modules that would do other things, as the organization’s needs. Strange. Sure, so there’s, there are a range of solutions starting from what we refer to his best of breed, so let’s say an application that just does donorsearch midge mint and they do that very well, and they have a lot of features for doner management. They go deep into that functionality, and then they’re on the other end of the scale are integrated systems that do donorsearch management, member management, case management, event management, the whole range of applications we call that an integrated suite and, you know, in theory, maybe there are broader than they are deep, although in some cases they’re both broad and deep. Um so you you have to figure out where you want to fall on that scale. Obviously the the best of breed solution khun target a specific pain point you’re having it can typically be implemented mohr quickly you have fewer people using it, fewer people involved in the implementation and you just go and you tackle that problem with that specific, best to breed solution. When you’re talking about integrated system, you’re getting the whole organization mobilized. Teo moved to this new system you’re thinking about how do your various departments work together. The folks that are working with donors, the folks that are working with volunteers, folks, they’re working with clients, and they’re all moving to this new system. It can be somewhat of a big bang approach and requires a lot more change management, and there may be benefits down the road to have him, everyone working off one seamless infrastructure sharing data and prostheses. But getting there is a big investment and the big challenge for the organization. We have to take a break for a couple minutes done, and when we come back, we’ll keep talking a little about the what we’re on now. There’s, different the implementation, and also your tips for identifying what the what the right solution should be. So i hope everybody stays with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. 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Ivory tower radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? In interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent talking to don fornes he’s, ceo of software advice, which you’ll find at software advice. Dot com done so well, i’m talking about this implementation. It is possible than tio by these things in modules. Just just what you need immediately. And then there are systems where you can add additional modules. Is that true? I would say that that can’t be true. The modularity of the system really depends on how it was architected buy the software company. So there are some companies that do a very good job of designing their software into modules that can be turned on or off. So that you could say, deploy four of ten modules and then turn more on as ugo. But you can’t take for granted that every system is going to be architected in such a way that makes that easy. Some learn some art and that’s something really begin to is you evaluate the software. Okay. All right. So let’s, let’s, get into your five tips. You you really started with one. You introduced one the type of problem that you’re trying to solve and your advice there really sounds like is to start with the problem, not the cool technology. You know. I like to say, don’t be romanced by the technology, especially now that we’re into this cloud era and there’s a lot of advances being made and user interface, and and how it looks, who feels this software is just really attractive and great stuff. But make sure you’ve got a need for it. Don’t just go buying technology because it looks full, or because one one person in the organization, maybe tech savvy. There may be an early adopter, but then the rest of the team are, you know, luddite, and we’ll find in the same way that person did. You can. You can get yourself in some trouble where you’ve invested in great technology, but you’re not using it. And i think related to that is that you want to get what’s practical for your office. Sure. So there are there are systems that are fairly lightweight and do just the basics and sometimes that’s all you need sometimes you don’t need toe over altum e and other times you have a larger, more sophisticated organization, or one particular department is fairly sophisticated. And you really want some advanced technologies. He’s got to think about what is what is right for your organization and your your department. How do you avoid being romanced? Are seduced by the bells and whistles. That really cool? Um oh, this one. You know, this one does that to we could we could use that to and o it has this other thing. We could use that also. How do you keep your feet on the ground? I think it starts. We’re staying ok. We’re talking about a technology purchase here, but let’s, put technology aside for a while. Let’s. Sit down and say, what are our biggest challenges? Where are we? At least efficient. Where do we spend the most amount of time creating the least amount of value? Is it that we have? Everyone has their own set of contacts, you know, maybe each pitch person who’s working with. Donors has their own list of of contacts. It’s not shared. And someone leaves in those contacts. Go with, um for example. Okay, now you want to look for some kind of a donor management system that will unify all those contact to be shared even if they are assigned to different individuals. So you you want to think about where your biggest pain points are and prioritize what problems you want to solve in what order i like to say start small, think big, grow quickly. So, you know, start small. Okay? What? What problems are we going to try himself keeping it in the context of thinking big? Eventually we want to solve almost all of these problems and then moved from their issue. You have success. So i think, really just having a business discussion about the processes and workflows and what’s working and what’s not, and then once you say, ok, this is what we’re going to stall them. This is how we’re going to solve it. Then you go out and you start evaluating the technology and you stay in control of that sales process rather than letting a sales person from the software company. Show off bells and whistles that make them most attractive. You know, you say that’s, great that’s, interesting will take that into consideration, but you always come backto. What are the core problems we’re trying to solve? And how does that technology solve those problems? You talked about fundacao n’t ing software earlier. What air cem? Some basics around around fundez counting. And what sort of problems might an organization have if if they’re not doing their accounting efficiently? Sure, i think with with the counting it’s it’s important to get the right infrastructure and processes and controls in place, i said, you need to be automating a process that is it’s. That accounting process is mission critical and has to have very strict controls. You don’t want to ever get into a situation where funds are being misappropriated are or you’re not sure how much cash flow you have going through the organization, so that is an area where you’ve got to get the right system in place. And yet, at the same time, it can be very constraining, because in accounting system has to be rigid and enforced controls. You need to make sure that this software that you’re buying handles the process is the way you want to handle them, or that you are willing to adapt to how that software handles those processes. S so we may have to adapt to what the software requires us to do. Yeah, so some software is more flexible than others in accounting, often it’s a little more rigid compared to, say, a constituent relationship management system. Because, you know, we do have, you know, accounting principles that are standardized that we have to follow, so you may have to. You have to do things the way that software is built to do it. I see in ah, a lot of small shops. It seems like very routine things, like maybe checks being received or accounts payable, being ah, being received or sorry, paid always seem to seem, even though their routine, they seem like each time it’s the first time it’s ever been done. I hope that’s, not the case, for, for all organised. I think some are more efficient than others. I think it comes down to you know, what is the attitude around payables receivables? And how quickly are you going to do it and who’s doing it? So i think that getting the right software in places key there, there are so many great duitz technologies right now, such as a ch payments, you bring a payables receivables in our own organization, we’re doing more and more th which is essentially a wire transfer, but no more sent paper checks, but actually just sending the money elektronik, lee and the more modern systems are built to be able to do those kind of transactions. And i’m glad i’m glad you explained what a ch is. Because on this show, i have jargon jail, but you kept yourself out. You kept yourself out of george in jail by quickly saying, basically a ch iso wire transfer. I think it stands for automated clearing house. Do you know? Is that right? That sounds good. Okay, so we’ll take that. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. And i just meant that, uh, i guess i was going back to symptomology a little bit. You know, when i said routine things seemed to i get treated as if there is the first time every time, even though it’s it’s done, you know, it doesn’t times a month or something it always seems to be a difficult task. So andi, i see. Sorry, go ahead, you’ve got organizations for maybe you have a volunteer bookkeeper, who’s coming in once a week or twice a month or something, and maybe they’re using an application that isn’t designed for fund accounting on dh. Maybe that particular person is, ah fine bookkeeper, but not very tech savvy and so that’s, where you can get into those situations where things are just very slow moving and and no one can really tell whether the check has been cut or not, or received or not. And i think that is symptomatic of the level of sophistication of the organization or they thought, function in the organization. Let’s, go back to your to your tips for, for finding navigating your way through the right software. What, what what’s. Next on that you recommend. Well, we’ve talked about not being romanced by the technology we’ve talked about some of the different applications, and identifying the problem first and then matching the technology is the solution. I think another interesting thing is its funding technology it’s an interesting area, because there are plenty of people out there who who loved technology, who loved sponsoring technology who love rolling up their sleeves. Of course, there are plenty who don’t, but organizations can identify those constituents who can be very useful as a technology resource. So in technology, there are plenty of people who been very successful financially, so you may find donors who have a background in technology who get excited about funding some kind of technology, purchase and implementation, and at the same time, they can roll up their sleeves and help with advising on selecting that technology, implementing that technology. Then there are folks who fit that description that maybe don’t have the financial resources to contribute, but could contribute their time and skills. So technology is is an area where well, let’s, let’s, go back to that bookkeeper, you know, there may be bookkeepers who could volunteer toe do your accounting, but that probably isn’t the same level of passion relative to technology, where there’s some people that are very passionate about what technology can accomplish and would really the motivated to come in and help you either financially or by rolling up their sleeves. Uh, so i think you can be really creative as you think about technology. Maybe not just another thing that comes out of the operating budget. But could you do a special campaign around raising money to fund a technology project or forgetting time donated by folks that are tech savvy? Okay, excellent, yeah, and and as you two shut on this. Another. Another issue and that’s important, and a tip that you have is around the implementation and the training. Sure, so this is along the same theme i’ve been hitting on throughout this conversation, which is they’re really needs to be a process behind the technology, whether that process is something you seek to automate with the technology or process you switch to because that’s the process that technology automates by default, and so the people that are gonna adopt this technology and use it are really critical to its success and can also lead to its failure. So if you by technology and you don’t use it, we refer to that in the industry as sh elsewhere go that as we do surveys of technology users and buyers almost every time what floats to the top is one of the biggest challenges is adoption. How do you get everyone to start using it if you have your development folks using a donor management system, but they don’t like filling out all the fields, you know, maybe they need the email in the phone number. I just don’t want to take the time to put in that physical address. Ah, that may serve their needs, fine, but it’s not going to help the marketing group when they want to. Do that next direct mail campaign, right? Right. You can get a lot of dirty data and there you need to get those folks bought in early to get the right data and the system and clean data in the system. If they’ve always been more of a relationship person, they don’t want to use technology, maybe they do their work over in lunches or in events. You can have this whole system you’ve invested in, people are using it. So i’m i make a suggestion that may seem counterintuitive, which is get those people involved in leading the technology selection and implementation effort. Maybe they’re not the lead on the project, but they’re involved from the start so that they have a sense of ownership and buy-in and really get exposure to what the technology can do from the start. Well, they were probably gonna put one of your more tech savvy people in charge of the project. But you need to get those. Those late adopters are nanites into the process early so that they really you have an epiphany then come to believe in technology. We also need the leadership. It’s it’s gotta be it’s. Gotta be. Used properly at the senior levels. And it’s got to be encouraged and sort of enforced from the senior levels. Yes, and that would be a challenge if you’re senior management are the late adopters. Yeah, okay, not needed a champion at the most senior levels of the organization. You can say, hey, this is something we’re going to do. The time has come and everybody is going to get on board, and we’re going to get the right imam, the funding. We’re not goingto, you know, we’re not going to be too cheap about this. We’re going to get the right stuff in place, and we’re going to make the changes in how we do things around here, so that we’re really using this software and automating are our process is the right way. Don’t we have just about a minute left, or so i want to ask you, what is it that you love about the work that you’re doing? You know, i it’s, uh, a little bit nerdy, but i love efficiency. I love getting doing things better and faster. And in my own organization, it’s reflected by developing our own technology. We we rarely even by third party technology. We have a team of developers who build everything from scratch to do exactly what we want, its lead, the great efficiency and i think, whether your advanced enough to build your own or whether you’re buying software off the shelf there’s a great sense of momentum and pride that comes from getting better at what you do in getting more efficient and that’s what i love don fornes, ceo of software advice. You’ll find them at software advice. Dot com don thank you so much for sharing your expertise. Thanks for having me telling you, it’s been my pleasure right now we go away for a couple of minutes when we returned tony’s take two and then amy sample ward is with me talking about storify and cora stay with us. You couldn’t even think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternative network get in! Nothing. Cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. I’m chuck longfield of blackbaud. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Dahna that was chuck longfield, chief researcher research scientist, actually at blackbaud from last year’s bb con conference and i will be there this year in october. Also, thes blackbaud people are very modest, it’s hard to get them to say their titles. Janna eggers, senior vice president i think of marketing in products just, said jenna eggers from blackbaud i have to get them to be a little more ah more forward about their titles and we have something to say about titles, titles that have changed very shortly. But first i can’t send live listener love this week. I’m sorry i’m not live where pre recorded this week, however konnichi wa ni hao anya haserot you know i send live listener love also, california always checks in texas, north carolina, oregon from time to time north i said oregon, not oregon there’s no e at the end of that, i learned that dahna who else checks in new york? New york has been lately so live. Listen love to all of you and everybody else. Who’s listening live. I will be back in the studio next friday. Tony, stick to my block. This week is a charity. Did what? Charities do the ah, fund-raising we at beth israel medical center here in new york city became public because of a will contest and ah, it’s fund-raising methods were the subject of a new york times story, which is probably something that we would all rather avoid, and i don’t think anybody wants their internal office processes splashed internationally on the new york times, but i saw very little that beth israel should be embarrassed about. I think they’re fundraisers, including their ceo, who, of course, we know should be a fundraiser. I did what they were supposed to be doing did what charities do they is the story of a woman who was living in the hospital, literally living in the hospital for twenty years. She was a resident of the hospital for twenty years, and the question is, were there was the hospital’s fund-raising tactics inappropriate? And i don’t think they were. I think they had a great prospect living among them, and they would have been, i think, careless if they hadn’t cultivated and solicited this woman for charitable gift. There were some emails and some notes to the between members are between employees that i think we’re a little carelessly, unprofessionally worded, but there’s nothing unethical, certainly nothing illegal, nothing fraudulent. So i don’t really think beth israel had that much to worry about when they’re fund-raising became public in the new york times, and i say more about that on my block, the post is a charity did what charities do on my block? Is that tony martignetti dot com that is tony’s take two for friday fourteenth of june twenty fourth of the year. Oh, i’m very glad that amy sample ward is with me now. She got a promotion at the non-profit technology network and ten and her most recent co authored book is social change, anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement her block is amy sample, war dot org’s and on twitter she’s at amy r s ward, i guess i don’t know, i guess i’ll say it because it’s it’s easier for me to say then for amy to say congratulations on being promoted to ceo of inten. Thank you. When was your promotion? Effective? Ah, effective june first. So we are in day eleven. All right? Yes. Today’s tuesday the eleventh. Um how’s it going, it’s going really well, i mean, you know, there’s there’s, not a lot of time spent trying to figure out who are these people that i work with because i already got to work with them for the last over two years, so it feels like, you know, you could just jump in and we can start moving forward on all kinds of projects are already deep in the weeds of the next ntcdinosaur will be in march in d c, so lots of lots of action, lots of good stuff happening and t c, of course, is the non-profit technology conference? Yep, right, followers of intend may not know that. So what, you’re jargon jail? All right? No, no mass resignations since your appointment as ceo. Well, not yet. Knock on wood. I i don’t think that that’s the case. I think we’re all really excited to dive into work together. I think you know, any organization that’s gone through a transition, you you kind of let yourself feel like, well, maybe, you know, maybe we’ll go in a new direction. Maybe we won’t what’s goingto happen. And so once everything’s kind of decided, well, now we can just move forward on all those. Great ideas that we’ve been having and conversations that staff have together. It’s, like one day. Maybe we’ll do this. So now we can really start putting some of that into motion on. You were supposed to be in the studio with me today, but you had to be by phone because you have something going on in your apartment, right? Yes. Since we since i’m now the ceo and ten, we will be relocating back to portland, where the antenna main office is. And as such as manhattan real estate, as soon as our landlord know that we were moving out well, he wanted to start fixing it up for the new people. So some repairman is coming. Tio, work on the bathroom. Okay, lets you get a swelled head. As ceo. You still have to be still to be in your apartment to let the let the contractors in. Exactly right on dh. Do you know when you’ll be moving? Sorry. Very sorry to see you going. You won’t be live in the studio with me anymore. Or maybe you will one more time when you mean portlanders again in july. July. Okay, we’ll see whether we get you in the studio one more time or or not, i guess depending on when your move is in july. But very happy for your congratulations on your appointment. Thank you. I appreciate it. This seems like a good time to let listeners know. Remind listeners what? What? And ten is about what? What? What kind of help can small and midsize non-profits get from non-profit technology network? Sure so and ten is a non-profit ourselves. So we definitely understand what everyone else is going through. And where? The membership organization for anyone looking to use technology to meet your mission. So there’s no organizational size requirement there’s no budget requirement there’s no missions specific or cause specific focus that we have it’s really, truly for everyone that’s trying to use technology. Teo, be a little bit more effective and more efficient and meeting your mission. So we have the ntc like we mentioned before the non-profit technology conference, which is our annual conference in this coming year in d c we’re expecting over two thousand non-profit staffers, so it’ll be a big, really great conference at but then outside of that conference, we have about one hundred webinars a year that air on all different topic hoexter tailored to all different kinds of staff in an organization because, you know, for example, if you’re thinking about online fund-raising well, there’s some pieces of that that your staff are interested in, you know what air the pieces we need to have in place? And then there are pieces of online fund-raising thatyou’re development team want to know, like, how do we make the ask successfully online? So we try and make sure that there’s something for all those different sides of everyone in organization, and we have depending on the year between five to eight research reports on those air free to download for and ten members, and then, you know, outside of all of that, really a community so there’s over eleven thousand and ten members sixty thousand, largely in the community that aren’t necessarily paid level but attend webinars or have come to the conference. So there’s the probability of sets that there’s no way that there’s someone who hasn’t gone through what you’re going through at your organization and it’s a great place to come find those piers assam questions see how they’ve navigated that website redesign or that our processor, whatever it may be, and you make the point very well that this is not on ly for technologists who understand technology, but it’s for everybody in the organization. Exactly. I mean, it’s twenty thirteen, right? We’re all using technology. It doesn’t mean that we’re all directors, but we all need to use these tools to do our job. And so it’s a place where you can go regardless of what area in the organization you work in to find resource is that help you with your job, whether you’re in communications or you’re on the program team what whatever it may be, you’ll find antenna at and t e e n dot org’s cool. Thank you very much, amy. Think well, hopefully we’ll get you some new members on dh, actually attendees at ntc and viewers of your webinars and readers of your research reports because i think it’s very valuable what and ten does, and it is a it’s, a it’s, a morass in a black box for a lot of people and that it need not be right. Let’s, talk about storify and cora let’s do it. Okay. Storify what’s. Ah, i see. It described as content curation. What is this? Yeah, but kind. I mean, if you’re going to jargon jail me for ntc jargon jail you for contents curation because that sounds wonky. Well, i asked you to. I asked you to explain it e would know that wouldn’t be the way i actually think storify is really cool tool really cool platform because it is so directly the definition of social media it’s multidirectional, its share a ball, it’s public all of those pieces that we associate with you know what? These social tools online are that storify. So essentially you could go to storify you say i wantto i want to create a story. Um, and i want it to be about, uh non-profit radio looks put in the hashtag non-profit radio that’s what you wanted to do your store storify about today after you listen to the podcast and it will pull in all the media that it finds it’ll pull in the tweets if there are photos of tony’s taking photos in the studio and posting them, if there are videos posted, whatever kind of video that it confined with that hash tag non-profit radio and what’s great is that it doesn’t just pull it in and say, here you go, it shows you these air all the available pieces of content, you know we found and you get to very simply you don’t need to be a technologist to do this, but you can just drag and drop them into your post. You khun ad your own tax so you could say here’s a great quote from one of our live listeners and then pull that tweet over. Oh, are you know whatever those kind of like annotations would be, and then when you are finished compiling it, you can either embed the whole thing in your website or in your blog’s, or you can just share it out on twitter or facebook wherever you want to share it and have it stay on the storify website. You know where however you want to move it around and it’s? Great, because then people can go back and kind of see that recap of the conversation i think it’s used really well. Bye. Uh, newspapers, new york times used store fight all the time. Tio, pull in. You know what they’ve seen on a breaking news story. Kind of in real time, things like that. I see. And on all those examples that you gave by the way of non-profit radio, which is an outstanding example to use. Thank you. They all do exist. Wei have just a minute before a break. Do you have to start your storify with a hashtag or could you just use the phrase? I guess in quotes tony martignetti non-profit radio can you start that way? Yeah, you could try it that way. It’s it’s easier with hashtags only because you know that it’s a dedicated tag that people have been using. Whereas if you were trying to just search for you know any instance of someone saying non-profit technology, for example, there was it would just be too big and nebulous. Tohave a clean, you know, conversation captured. Okay. Non-profit radio is what you meant. Yep. Non-profit technology i understand. Just flows out. No, no, no. I meant non-profit technology. If you did that generally at the phrase versus for example, the hashtag and p tech. I see. Ok, ok. But you can edit out things that are extremely us right? Yet for sure. Okay. All right, let’s, take a break and amy will return. And we’ll keep talking about storify and also kwara. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi there and welcome back, amy, this sounds like something that could be good for non-profit don’t have a social media team or director at all because you’re pulling in content that’s you’ve already created or that others have already created. Yeah, especially if you’re on organization where you’re having on event or you’re having, you know, you put out new report or you launched a new program or, you know, you’ve done something that’s gotten your community talking online about what you’re doing so so it’s about something specific, it doesn’t just generally, you know, i like and ten well, that’s terrific, and i would love tweets that say i like and ten, you know, it’s, not necessarily something to capture a story, so any time you’re doing something that is a little bit more time bounder or topic lee specific it’s it’s really easy because you now you have all this content and so you, khun, just like you said, even if you don’t have a social media are big communications department, you could just go pull it all together fairly quickly, but be it also means that now all those community members that got highlighted in your store if i get to feel like, oh my gosh, you know, my my tweet about the event or the photo that i took of, you know, the ballroom at the event got to be featured in the organization’s recap and that’s really cool for them as a member of the community who maybe i hadn’t ever really felt highlighted or, you know, called out by the organization before and now they’re kind of, you know, they get to shine as part of the recap, and that makes it more likely that they will share it with their communities exactly. Now, storify, when you said that it gives you the chance to either in bed or share, i guess or both the people that including the people that it shares with include the people who contributed to everything that got drawn in right duitz yes, exactly. It has a lot of built and sharing features on dh you can you can tell it not to do those things, but it try it wants to encourage you to send out a tweet, for example, tow any dahna any tweet that you included in your storify to send a reply to those people saying, hey, i highlighted you in my store if i and give them a link and then they, you know, it links back to the store if i so you can have, you know, when you have your storify account in your building, these specific stories they’ll stay on the story by account, you have a you know, profile there people can just follow your storify account if they want teo, but you could also embedded on your blogged on your website, maybe you maybe you created a storify for a specific offline event that you held and, you know, lots of people tweeted and shared photos and you create a storify well, that’s really great to go back to the event page and added there so now it’s like an archived, you know, event captured page and not just an old registration page, you can keep all that content there, so you’re extending the life of your content. Exactly. I get a tweet like that whenever i participate in a in a twitter chat called fundchat hashtag fund, and at the end of the chat, i got a tweet that says you’re included in my storify for the fir fundchat today here? No, okay, i think it’s a really great tool for twitter, chat because it’s, when you are participating in the chat, i think it’s fairly easy to follow along, but if you aren’t participating in that moment in the chat and you want to go back and look at the hash tag later, it just doesn’t make any sense. You know, you need that storify where the organizer can move people’s replies to fit underneath the question, you know, instead of in-kind of the ad hoc free sabelo that they may have actually come in that move them out of the time stamped order of when they were sent. But which question is this person answering and that kind of thing, right? Put them into a logical order. Yeah, yeah. Interesting, though, that they do come with the time stamp too. I like that. It pulls in all the all the original features of the of the piece of content. Okay, let’s, let’s. Give some time to quarrel. Qu qu o r a i won’t try to describe it since i got admonished with the store. If i so, how would you, amy sample ward to? Find describe quarrel for listeners. Sure, so cora is essentially a q and a site, so you or others could submit a question, and then you or others could submit an answer and, unlike certain other question and answer websites that you may have seen or if you have ever, like, done an internet search just for a question, and then you see all of these, like different kinds of forums and q and i websites come up where someone else’s asked that question, cora tries to keep it really limited so that there’s there’s not just like a forever stream of answers, but that there are really, you know, prominent answers to that question on which is, you know, something that kind of plays up a positive feature. So you’re not sifting through and wondering which of these answers is the real answer and it’s a place where both organizations and, uh, you know, individuals of all different backgrounds have have really established some of their energy online as a thought leader. A resource to whatever kind of niche field there in so it’s not just about tax analogy about everything under the sun and people are there you know, some people ask a question and then answer at themselves because they want teo share information about that topic, but others see questions that others have posted and go in and provide an answer. I’ve answered a question on what’s the best way to get a taxi cab in new york city, huh? So i don’t know that an expert, but i had a couple of suggestions. I see too many people standing on the curb, you’re gonna be out there, you could be in the middle of the street practically. We’ve gotta want that. You gotta be at least twenty five percent of the way into the street if you’re not. If you’re not in danger of getting run over, then you’re not going. You’re not an effective cab camp. Hell, that’s, how you’re stopping the taxi is by preventing them from driving further down the street. All right, so we just have a minute or so left. How could non-profits use quorra? Sounds like credibility is very good. How else? What? Why else? Well, i think there are lots of ways whether you want to talk about your you know, the field in which your organization works. And provide answers say, you work in public education and you want to go, you know, maybe someone has posted a question that says, what does a charter school mean you if you work in public education, you probably know, and you want to provide a on answer, i think the thing to keep in mind is that it is a very individual driven platform. And so if you have, you know, your executive director, maybe of a policy director you have, you know, whoever it may be in your organization think about having more than one person with an account and providing those answers as that credible individual that represents the organization, so that you created a little bit of space between that answer and your organization and have also said, well, of course our policy director is answering this question because it’s about public policy and we have an expert on this, you know, and that’s why we’re such a credible organization qu o r a dot com. Maybe we have to leave it there. Amy sample ward, ceo of non-profit technology network congratulations on that again. Thank you. She will remain our monthly social media contributor. You’ll find her at amy. Sample ward, dot or ge? Always a pleasure. Safe move. I hope i get to see you before you go. Yes, thank you. Bye. Amy buy-in next week. Well, before i do next week, i want you to know that i badly misused a word today. I’ll even give you him. It was in the first half. If you are, it was completely out of context. And if you are the first person to tell me what what it was and what the word means, then i will send you a social media roadmap, which is courtesy of amy sample ward. Next week, a conversation with adam grant he’s, the youngest, tenured and most highly rated professor at the wharton school of business at the university of pennsylvania. His book is give and take in march. His work was the subject of a new york times magazine cover story. Does generosity and your relationships leave you behind or get you ahead? That’s what we’ll talk about without him. Grant, insert sponsor message over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities. Listen tomorrow to tony it’s, not just martignetti non-profit radio tony. Martignetti non-profit radio each week, if you’d like to talk about sponsoring the show, contact me on my block. Our creative producer was clear. Meyerhoff. Janice taylor is usually the assistant producer, but she’s, not here today. Sam liebowitz is line producer. Our show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. Talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Duitz good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get a drink. Cubine are you a female entrepreneur? Ready to break through? Join us at sixty body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday, said noon eastern time to learn tips and juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Soul. Every thursday ad, men in new york times on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment. Be more effective, be happier. And make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Com. Hyre

144: Grow Grassroots & Divine Devices – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Michael O’Brien, founder and principal of mob advocacy

Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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No. Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent it’s august seventeenth. Oh, how i wish and i hope that you were with me last week i couldn’t stand knowing that you had missed last week’s show working with your small organization board what’s special about working with small shop boards, we talked about setting expectations, recruiting, training fund-raising and assessing your boards capabilities. My guests from fund-raising day twenty twelve were terry billy from the hudson river museum, wendy no adele from yonkers partners and education, and lisa rob, executive director of the new york state council on the arts. Also see the smart cr m system, constituent relationship management. You’ve got constituents, employees, donors, volunteers, clients and vendors. How do you manage your relationships with them? What’s the impact on your prospect management maria simple, the prospect finder and our regular prospect research contributor, had lots of ideas last week, as she always does this week grow grassroots. Michael o’brien, founder and principal of mob advocacy, knows how to bring people to your cause with grassroots advocacy. How do you activate people who are the grass tops and how do? You engage them, and where do you go to meet potential coalition partners, what’s, the value added for your work. All of that, with michael o’brien. Also divine devices, desktops, laptops, tablets, handhelds. Scott koegler has tips for picking the right device to fit your budget, work, style and personality. He’s, the editor of non-profit technology news in our regular monthly tech contributor. Between the guests on tony’s take to help me out and get a free book. My book. I’d appreciate your help with a three minute survey, and i’ll say more about that on tony’s, take two. Use the hashtag non-profit radio on twitter to join the conversation with us there. As always, we take a break, and then when we return, it’s grow grass roots with michael o’brien, stay with me. You didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink, you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Dahna good joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city in pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller emotional freedom, and greg brayden will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve, save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot order, or h a n j dot net. Hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family, court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more. Dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever. Join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio where else you’re going to hear those kinds of ideas? Nowhere. Michael o’brien is my guest. He is the founder and principal of mob advocacy, a multi state government relations firm that focuses on helping small businesses and non-profits manage legislative and regulatory processes, he has over ten years of experience managing state and local government relations and political programmes. Michael has launched many national grassroots advocacy campaigns that have impacted legislation and policy at both the state and federal levels. Michael brian, welcome to the show. Thank you. Good afternoon, it’s. A good afternoon to you. I’m glad you’re with us. Well, let’s, let’s define grassroots advocacy. So we know everybody’s starting in the same place. Sure. I define grassroots advocacy as engaging regular people that the typical constituent in order to impact public policy or public opinion. Okay, go ahead. Is there more, uh, just to say that it varies from what’s considered direct lobbying, which is ah lot more heavily regulated and requires, uh, registration process with either the state federal or local government. Right. Okay. But it goes it. Could be that, but we’re going. We’re going to talk about the doing it. The grassroots with the with the average joe, the average right and the average jane. Also, jane is welcome to participate as well. Um all right. How does this, uh, grassroots advocacy? How can it help? Small charities? I think there’s three ways that, uh, grassroot dad? Because he helped out small charities. One, uh, i think grassroots advocacy is often essential to organizational missions. Uh, it’s. Hard to think of. Ah, oven issue out there. That’s not impacted by local, state or federal legislation or regulatory process. Uh, so it’s important for your organization to be involved. Second, it’s. A great way to engage volunteers and donors. Small amount profits are asking people to give money. Um, you know, off all the time, you know, four, five times a year in order to be successful. That has to be part of the process. But it is important to provide some different different ways for volunteers to get involved in different ways for them to have an impact other than giving money. And this is a great way to be okay. And this actually i know. You have another way, but this actually could lead to someone becoming a donor so they might come to your cause and sign a petition or do things that we’re going to talk about and then become a donor down the road absolutely small, small, just like small donors become big donors, small advocates become big donors and, you know, those top advocate said that organization’s looking for ok and even you know, that could become small donors because then small donors have become big donors, has become big donor it’s all part of a spectrum? Absolutely. Then big donors could continue to become grassroots advocates, but they wouldn’t go back to being small donors way. Hope not. No, no, that wouldn’t happen. Okay, and then what’s the other. What else is this important? The third way. It’s. A great way to find new supporters. Er, you know, for for volunteers, donors even those on the on the, uh whose responsibilities include fund-raising it’s sometimes hard to ask somebody who’s brand new to an organization to get money but it’s easy to say. Hey, can you spare five minutes in and send an email to your to your legislator? Can you spare five minutes and signed this petition it’s an easy ask. And once you get those people involved in your organization, you know, they have some kind of interest because they they took that step and got involved. And so it’s a good way to increase your your your database and gives opportunities to call the-whiny-donor further, i love that easy, easy entry point and then also can help new entrance introduce your cause to their friends as well, who who may very well be sympathetic. Absolutely cool. Okay, um, and so you’ve seen this make make a real change. I mean, this really can impact policy and funding in things. I mean, absolutely, i don’t i can’t think of a of a major advocacy campaign that that i’ve been involved with that didn’t have grassroots as as a key part of that, uh, lawmakers, they listened the lobbyists all day long, and they know there’s a bent out there, but when it when it hits home, when their constituents are calling in or sending emails saying, hey, you know, take a look at this that’s that’s when it really hits home, when when it’s people voting for them. Back home have an interest in it. Lawmakers take, uh, take a much closer look at the issue. They do ok, i’ve always you know, i’ve always wondered because i fill out petitions sometimes or send emails and make phone calls, and i just wondered if it really is making a difference. Sometimes you don’t get the feedback from the organization, which i maybe we’ll talk about, but that’s a downside, but but i just always wonder, you know, but you’re saying, yes, people good. What makers do? Listen, yeah, okay, okay, we have just a little less than a minute before before first break. So why don’t we just, um but you just introduce us to the idea of the way social media has helped create these grassroots campaigns to make sure that could be a whole show it and i know what you’re going, you’re going to squeeze it into thirty seconds, and then we’re gonna come back and talk about it more after a break. Ok, the internet. It has completely changed grassroot dad, because just by making making it easier one for organizations to reach their advocates and spread their message, but, uh, you know, making it far easier and cheaper for those advocates to reach out to there to there legislature, especially those in washington. I mean, if you’re in california, used to be a long distance call, uh, you have to go through the switchboard, you know, with the internet, it it’s an email on your getting directly, oftentimes, to stafford, take, who takes care of that issue. Okay, that was well said on, we have live listener love going out to california, a one e looks like a wani california live listener love going out there. Right now, we take a break, and when we return, michael brian stays with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow, no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s, really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry. Sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven it will make you smarter. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com we are back, and we’re talking about growing your grassroots with michael o’brien. I got some more live listener love. We got a couple of news out their new bern, north carolina knew palestine, indiana welcome and michael o’brien, i’m going to challenge you. If you’re going to use an example, you have to use one from a state where we have a live listener. So, so far, we’ve identified california, north carolina and indiana, and there are others, of course. So please confine your examples to those states. No problem. All right, that was one more time. California, indiana, north carolina. Alright, let’s, continue online. I’m sure there are sites that can help charities create a grassroots campaign. Yeah. There’s. A number of different sites. Uh, both free and, uh, pay sites that okay. That help you grow and manage your grassroots campaign. Uh, let’s. Let’s. Name sametz. Talk about some free ones. Sure. Justin. Detail some great, some good free ones. Uh, there’s a a new company. Fairly new company called pot woobox, which is a a great job with federal legislator. Popped like alternative father. Right? Pio pio. Gop video right now, if you go to pot. Woobox p ot vox there’ll be marijuana legalization advocacy pot box you can you can actually find information about marijuana legalization on pop fox is well, you can. All right. Also smoke a bone box. I’m sure okay, uh, pop fox. Yes, but it is a kind of a new grassroots tool. It measures public opinion. But how many letters going in for and against an issue it free for organizations and individuals, too, to sign up and to help kind of broadcast their message to other potential supporters. Uh, and just recently, the democratic caucus in the house and the senate announced that they’re giving the sentiment feet from pop box tto help, uh, help keep there, uh, caucus informed on public opinion on different issues. Okay. So just as an example of how, how much of an impact this makes you know when when lawmakers air using that direct public opinion data, you know, you know, every letter count, just like every vote counts in elections. Every letter counts in a grassroots campaign. What else you got? That’s free. Uh, bill track fifty and some light foundation and thomas help look at legislation that organizations might be interested. In okay. Agreement that was built. Track foundation and its satellite bill. Track fifty. Bill, check fifty. Pardon me, bill. Track fifty. Fifty dot com. Yes, the sunlight foundation. Some light foundation. Okay, again. And congress dot org’s, congress dot org’s. Oh, interesting. Are they affiliated with with our united states congress it’s affiliated with cq roll call? Actually, what is that? Congressional quarterly. Real congressional quarterly. What? You’re watching? We have jargon jail in tony martignetti non-profit radio, and i will throw you in there. Especially is somebody who’s. Ah, troublemaker. Sorry about that. That that’s, uh, that’s just the name that’s. How i’ve known that this is cq on then thomas dot lock, dot gov and those air great tools to research federal and state legislation. So you can have an idea of what issues you want to take? Uh, take action on. And then, um, i don’t know what of a good free state local advocacy piece, but i know there that there are some in development, so hopefully and they in the coming months, we might have a good one coming. Okay, i’ll tell you why our audience is small and midsize charity. So we’re going to stick with the free sites. And if people want to find the pay sites, i’m sure they can do that. We’re going to stick with talking about the free ones. So let’s, stay online for a little while. What? I mean, you could you could build your own cause site, right? I mean, it’s it’s virtually cost less to put up a website. Correct? Uh, okay. And what should you be doing on that website when you put up your yurt grassroots cause site of the top things you know, make sure your issue is defined in ways that the everyday voter or everyday legislature legislator can understand. Uh, people want to think that our elected officials know a lot about every issue. Uh, that’s just simply not true. They don’t have the time, uh, or the capacity to know everything about your issue. So keep the language simple. Umm, you know, make sure it’s in terms that that an everyday person can understand. Ok, i try to use my grandmother tests. You know, my grandmother can understand it that i’m doing the right thing. Okay? I’m going to stay away from that. I like grandmothers. I don’t have mine with me, but i’m just going to let that go. Listeners may be disappointed, but you can come up with your own retort to michael’s. Grandfather, grandmother, test on why it’s a grandmother test? Not a grandfather test. Okay, what else? What? We should be capturing emails. I’m sure. Right. What else should be doing on this site? Yes, a way for people to sign up for your information. Uh, and, you know, a simple email collection or ah, form where they can add in additional information so you can match them, uh, with their legislator, uh, is important depending on the size of your advocacy campaign. Uh, e mails could be fine. You know, you might want that additional form information. It doesn’t take that much longer for somebody that fill it out. I don’t think it’s a huge deterrent out there, okay. And, you know, third, uh, you know, provide opportunities for your supporters to spread the word. You know what? Twitter with linked in with facebook, you know, just having the send this to three of your friends, you know, using using social media and and that, uh, you know, social media to help grow your your grassroots campaign, those are the three essential pieces, okay? And i see i see that often when i’m asked to sign something on dh then i do it, then i get something back it’s usually from move on dot or ge i get something back saying thank you. Now, please share this and they have buttons to share it on twitter, sharing on facebook, et cetera. Right then, then, validation process and, uh, you know, i know a lot of fund-raising cos there now, you know, kind of using that validation process as well, you know? But, you know, the validation process really helps grow your grassroots process, the validation process being what? Thank you that i’m referring to the they having tony send is sending no doubt, teo friends saying, hey, you know, i support this i believe in this, you know, take a look at it. You know that validation is is key to growing your your your grassroot that base. Okay, okay. Now, if you so if you fertilize your grassroots on dh use lots of, i guess use lots of weed, b gon and adequate fertiliser. Then the grass is going to grow. And you can have these things called grass tops, what are grass tops, grass tops or the kind of the super advocates? So there there’s two categories that i put people in the people who are who are the most passionate, most vocal on your on your issue? Uh, they’re the people who answer every email respond are contacting their legislature legislator hyre uh, they’re important because they’re out there, they’re promoting and and you want to keep an eye on them because you don’t want them to over promoting, go overboard. You want him to stay on message. But, you know, the passion is there. They’re easy to motivate. Yes. The second is the grassroot supporter who’s who’s connected, who lives down the street from their state legislator. Uh, who’s. You know, brother, in law’s, the mayor, you know, those people who have who have personal connections to legislators and the’s air the grass tops the’s the grass tops these these are the grass tops. So you have your passionate, passionate, always their advocates. Then you have the people, uh, who have some real access that your general, uh, general constituents don’t have. Okay, when you marry those two and put them out there, you have a very powerful combination hyre that can hit people in ways that your traditional grassroots doesn’t always said you might not hit the right legislator every time with your grassroots database, but with your grass tops, you might be ableto sneak peek in somewhere where you didn’t necessarily have access reached before. All right? Michael o’brien is the founder and principal of mob advocacy, and we’re talking about growing your grassroots and you’ll find his block at mob hyphen advocacy dot black spot dot com were a little more live listener love going out foreign now tokyo, japan welcome pens burghdoff, germany welcome. You’re going to want to hang out because i’m gonna be speaking german later on. I promise you. I’m speaking german later on. Hang on their pens. Berg, seoul, korea, vienna, austria. Welcome, welcome. Welcome, michael. How do we engage these grass tops differently than we do the grassroots? Uh, well, first of all, they just like, just like your major donors, they do take a little extra cultivation. Um, you have to do that. Prospect research on your grassroots database? Yeah. People don’t always think about it. You know the process. To cultivate a grassroots said forget is exactly the same as the process to cultivate a funder and a major donor. You got to do the prospect research. You gotta do your homework. It’s you know, it’s it’s not always easy, you know, sometimes it starts by you catch an address or you’ll catch a name. And, you know, i wonder if this person knows and, you know, you connect some of the dots, uh, and it takes, you know, the government relations person of the grassroots person or even the executive director reaching out. Say, hey, you know, i saw that you have an interest on this issue. Can i talk to you about it? And, you know, you you start that discussion process and find out, you know, how interested are they? How connected are they? Um and then, you know, just like with the major donor, you know, you make that ask, hey, can you help us? You know, beyond just that five minute weather and oftentimes, if if, if they’re connected and already have an interest in your organization, you know that it’s still an easier asked that then asking for money? Oftentimes i’m going anyway. How about getting other groups involved with you to help you? Other charities? Perhaps? Sure. Coalition work, i think is is important. Individual charity’s only have so many, so many people on the database lists, they only have so many reach, whether you know, whether that numbers, whether geographic area, you know, whether that’s, you know, pinned down by the the, uh, the scope of the mission reaching out to other organizations who do similar work or, you know, maybe completely different work, uh, but still having an interest in the end outcome of of your issue, and i want to make the point that those coalition partners could even be corporate, right? Absolutely. I just think that something really interesting at a local station here where banks had allied with charities because they both had an interesting in preventing hydraulic fracturing that process of releasing gas from the from the crust in shale of the earth because the banks lose mortgage revenue when property values decline, and that happens around hydraulic fracking sites. So so companies had allied with charities. It certainly does. And, you know, even even when they when corporations don’t have a a personal stake, there’s a lot of a lot of corporate responsibility out there. Ah, latto corporations are getting involved in their communities and, you know, when you get those corporations involved, they can help fund from of that grassroots advocacy work and help you no help with the promotion. And, you know, grassroots advocacy is is a generally a low cost, um, product, but, you know, every every little bit is a resource drain on a small non-profit so corporate partners out there can can help with that funding on help, you know, help raise resource is help, you know, provide validation. You do all of those things? Yeah, all right, so just the fact that it doesn’t have to be another non-profit could be corporate, i imagine now, a little quickly because we only have a few minutes left their sights that could help you find coalition partners. Um, you know yes, yes, you know, pop box will will list organizations that are supporting, supporting or opposing, uh, legislation and certainly that’s. A key indicator. You find legislation that you’re interested in, you can look at supporters and the opposition. Okay, pick your side and you pick your team, so to speak. Uh, are there other sites? Uh, you know, not that i know. Okay, i think congress dot orden might, but i’m not. I’m not okay, but and then you could also use too traditional social media, right? Linked in facebook searches? Absolutely. The traditional social media. Uh, find out who is talking about your issue. Um, you know, it’s it’s much easier to research issue advocacy. Now that never given, given the amount people are talking about and the interest in it. Michael, what is it about this work that really moves you? And why do you why do you love this? You know, it, uh, i had always wanted to work, uh, with the non profit in the nonprofit sector. Uh, you know, i think part of it was growing up in a strong catholic family coming back. I always wanted to give back, um, but i also had a passion for advocacy and and politics and government and, you know, helping non-profits to make the impact is is really what drives me. You know, i’ve worked worked for and with several non-profit organizations, you know, doing health care, social justice, education on dh loved it every day. You know i often i feel you know, it’s been a long time since since i’ve actually worked. Uh, you know, i just love my work so much, you know, it’s like i don’t even have a real job. Alright, dahna co-branding grassroots can change the world. Grassroots can change the world. You know, it’s uh, you know, one person at a time. All right, michael brian, founder and principal of mob advocacy. You’ll find his blah but his blogged as you’ll find his, you’ll find him blah, bing at no that’s. Not true. Blogging at mob hyphen advocacy dot black spot dot com. Michael, thank you very much for being on. Thank you for having me. It was great great talking to you. I’m glad you got jordan. Thank you has been my pleasure. Now we take a break, and when we return, we got a little more live listener love going out and then tony’s take two and then scott koegler with divine devices. Stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Joined the metaphysical center of new jersey and the association for hyre. Awareness for two exciting events this fall live just minutes from new york city. In pompton plains, new jersey, dr judith orloff will address her bestseller, emotional freedom, and greg brady will discuss his latest book, deep truth living on the edge. Are you ready for twelve twenty one twelve? Save the dates. Judith orloff, october eighteenth and greg brady in november ninth and tenth. For early bird tickets, visit metaphysical center of newjersey dot, or or a h a n j dot net. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Snusz you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz durney lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m ken berger from charity navigator. Welcome back. We’ve got more live listener love going out. Lutherville, timonium, maryland that’s a heck of a town you got there. Lutherville, timonium in maryland, rest in virginia and quebec city in the province of quebec, canada. Welcome, welcome, everyone. Time for tony’s take to my block this week. I’m asking for your help and to show my gratitude, i will give you a free copy of my book. I have a three minute survey on charity registration, which is the requirements in every state and district of columbia that charities register with the authorities in every state where they are soliciting donations. And i wrote a book on this. Oh, and i happen to have the title of the book right here. What is it? What a coincidence. My book is called charity registration state by state guidelines for compliance, and it sells for as much as two hundred ninety nine dollars, depending on the size of your charity. But if you take this short survey, you can claim a free download of the book. You’re your input. Is is that important to me and there’s? A link to the survey on my blogged the post is called helped me out and get my book for free. My blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com? Well, treyz is expected to be, and so if you take the survey, you’ll get get a free book that is tony’s take two for friday, august seventeenth, the thirty fifth show of two thousand twelve. We had a listener joined since the last live listener love, and so before i bring scott in, i want to say hello to serbia. Hello, serbia. Scott koegler how are you? I’m good tony, how you doing? Great, you’re not survey. Are you serbia? No, no, i don’t think so. No, we have taken a wrong turn. We travelling to south carolina today, so but i think when you’re in the carolina, you’re in south carolina. Scott koegler of course, our regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, which you will find that end p tech news dot com and this month we’re talking about devices, scott there’s, tablets, there’s, laptops, desktops, handhelds how do we figure out what the heck is good for us? Yeah, kind of never ending, isn’t it? They used to be a pretty straight decision between desktops and laptops and that for real work. Those air still kind of the main options. But today, you know, you get, uh, tablets and bones everywhere from three and a half inches, ten point one inches on size, and pretty much they’ll do all the same thing. But also pretty much all that same thing is is usually less then, you know, real work. Another one generally don’t have keyboards and those kind of things so let’s kind of segment into those two categories. First foryou, portable before you, scott. Before you do that, i want to point out we know that you are the tech contributor because you don’t just say screen size up to ten inches. You say up to ten point one that extra tenth of an inch makes a difference. We gotta be precise. This is technology was the record demands precision. And scott is the man who delivers it. Okay, i’m sorry. That’s. Any inane interruption? Go ahead. That’s. Right. Um, so again, in the form of unity passes on the kind of work i need to do obviously gonna be sitting in the office. You can use either. And that that decision based you haven’t called back. Scott scott scott, stop for a minute. I’ll tell you what, you’re cutting out kind of badly. Give us a call back on the same number, but eight. One, eight, three, right. You know the number, but use eighty one, eighty three. Okay. And while scott is calling back, i’ve got some more live listener love. Hopefully he, uh he taps quickly on those on the phone. Who else you got? Pittsburgh. Oh, i mentioned pittsburgh, germany. Okay. Um, new york city, new york, new york. Excellent. Finally, somebody from new york. How come nobody from new jersey? Where is my mother? My mother and father are not listening to this show right now. Unless they’re in lutherville. Timonium, maryland. But i don’t think that’s them. I believe my mother and father are not listening. And ah, this week, is there my mom’s birthday and their anniversary? And i’m going out there, and they’re not listening to the show. You believe that? I mean, i may not go. I mean, go, go. We got scott back. Excellent. Scott, i don’t hear him. We have scott in the system. Scott oh, dial. Tone that never sounds good. Do i have to start and punishing my mother again? There he is. There he is. Okay, yeah, i’d rather talk to scott than admonish my mother. I’ll do that over the weekend. Okay, you’re going to break down our devices for us into two categories? I believe right. Let’s start with just desktop laptop as one category. And having said that, both of those generally well, i think, almost always have keyboards and keyboard is really key to the kind of things that people generally call work in an office or latto build it, you know, involves writing text using the keyboard for american trees and things like that and those air really much more suited to that kind of work than our tablets and cell phones and those kind of things. So the soft virtual keyboards that appear on tablets and phones were pretty well, but if you really need to get a lot done, you’re better off just having a keyboard on your hands. Uh, just, you know, more accurate. Better sure, sure. So it really depends on what you’re what you’re you’re functions are what you were like. What your goals. Are for the hardware, right? Exactly. Exactly. So let’s, just talk about the difference in key in, uh, laptops and desktops. One of the key difference of differences. There is the price. So the best tops are generally less expensive than laptops for a similar amount of power. Just because all the miniaturization that is required to make a laptop cost extra money. Okay, i was wondered why the bigger one is less generally. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, because, you know, they don’t care about the size. They’re just, you know, stuff all this stuff and then stick it on the floor. So, uh, so that’s kind of one way to do that. So if you got b b funds and you don’t need the larger screen that’s also available generally with a desktop, then you might want to opt for laptop because obviously it’s it’s portable, and you can take it with you. If you’re not always working at your desk, you can move it. Otherwise other places taken home, take it on a on an event or something like that. So there’s a difference there, of course. Sure. Um what what else? Well, what about software availability? Well, software is always a key and a lot of software, especially non-profit kind of things are going to run on generally windows windows operating systems, so that may even exclude using a mad uh, you need to really check your your software course. If you’re using a cloud based application, then you, khun pretty much use any kind of operating system doesn’t matter whether it’s windows or or mac or even it’s kind of lennox operating system very well. You make a very good point about what what platforms are supported by funk by applications that are important to you, there’s one that i using planned giving that does not support the apple os. So i have to have a programme called parallels on my apple computer to run windows just for that one program, but it is essential, right? Right, see that sometimes will dictate what you’ve done, and of course, once you’ve done that, not only have you spent more of your apple computer, but you spent more for the parallels, right? Exactly. So now you you know you really enough there, so you really need to decide what’s most important to you, and i kind of touched. On one of the reasons for getting a laptop and that is the portability, and so now we start to talk about, okay, what kind of jobs are you going to use that require portability? Uh, one that i think i said was that he’s going to an event on a laptop is good if you’re going to have a table inside you, but if you’re going to be wandering around the event and you want to interact with people, take pictures, maybe dio email sign ups for your newsletters, those kind of things, uh, a tablet is probably the perfect device for that kind of thing, a smartphone, probably a little bit less than perfect, although you can certainly do those things, but again, you get smaller keyboard, you know much a little bit more difficult to use quickly, okay? And there’s so many tablets out there. Besides, the ipad is the google nexus and the microsoft surface. Samsung has one, i think the galaxy i mean there’s so many tablets, yeah, there’s a huge variety, in fact, buy-in while apples still dominates with the ipad, i just survey that the android operating system, which is what’s used in pretty much every town would accept apple and been in windows tablet, so andrew, it is outselling apple on a poor unit basis, so it just kind of interesting. Yeah, yeah. So i know it doesn’t say if any better or worse generally means it’s less expensive devices, they’re less expensive. Okay, um, but at the same time, i’ve heard from a lot of people that it’s the application that counts, you know, if you can get to the internet and you can access the functions that you need, it really doesn’t matter so dahna look at your budget, see what it is that you need those the system that you’re looking at, support the function you need and within your budget, and then go ahead and buy it, you know, they pretty much all work okay and the features on not necessarily just sticking with tablets, but just across all of them. I was looking i was when i was researching our segment on dh i actually do research, i know it doesn’t sound like it, but actually do research for the show and prepare the show. I found something the iphone headphones, you know, the white headphones that you get, and they have a little tiny panel on them built into the built into the wire and there’s ten i found a site that there are an article had ten different things that you could do with that little with that little panel like you could if you tap the middle of it two times that’s to pick up a phone call, for instance, or, like, tap it once and that’ll put a put a phone call through tio to voicemail. When you’re getting if you’re getting a call while you’re listening in to skip a song, you do a triple tap or what? It’s incredible just on this tiny little skinny panel the features on that are available, right there’s? One more hidden one if you stand on your head and you stick it dunaj it’ll actually call your mother, okay? I don’t really appreciate sarcasm on this show. I play things pretty straight pretty close to the vest. Now. Watch, watch. You know, sarcasm is a very dangerous thing. Uh, but you know that point there’s there are many features on many systems, computers and even software, and the rule of thumb is eighty twenty just like, you know, all the eighty twenty rules where eighty percent of the people used twenty percent of the function, yeah, just like you have an iphone, right? I do have that i do, and you’d never do those things. No, i didn’t know that i could ignore it incoming call, buy long pressing the center button twice or so you know, i just i just usually hang up on it, but, you know, you could do that. Yes, i’ve noticed, okay, so what? We’re going to take a break. So when you were little chuckle mode here we’ll take a break, but i want to send more live listener love it’s, it’s pouring in san angelo, texas, san diego, california, rockville center, new york. Welcome, welcome, welcome. We’re talking to scott koegler, the regular regular tech contributor about divine devices were going to keep talking about that subject. Maybe not with scott koegler might hang up on him after this break. Talking dot com. Hi, this is nancy taito from speaks band radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot com let’s monte m o nt y monty taylor dot com how’s your game want to improve your performance, focus and motivation than you need aspire athletic consulting, stop second guessing yourself, move your game to the next level, bring back the fun of the sport, help your child build confidence and self esteem through sports. Contact dale it aspire, athletic consulting for a free fifteen minute power session to get unstuck. Today, your greatest athletic performance is just a phone call away at eight a one six zero four zero two nine four or visit aspire consulting. Dot vp web motivational coaching for athletic excellence aspire to greatness. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back, scott kapin did you hang up on us? I am still here. Okay, dear chagrin. Damn. Not yet. All right, now, all these features and all there’s a pact with the stuff that most people don’t use, you have to you have to wonder about what your employees are capable of learning. Well, exactly. And and how much do you want them to learn? How much extra time do you want to put in on finding out things that they may never use? Uh, there’s a big difference between buying a computer to operate your business and one for your personal life. I generally try to minimize the expense and the feature set of business computers because typically, you know, i’ve been unemployed. I need them to do three things. Four, maybe five, generally, not twenty. And if i say i’m buying something for myself on much more liberal in terms of the kinds of features and even the amount of money that i’m gonna want to spend interesting that’s an important distinction. Yeah, you don’t want to be thinking about you don’t want to be making that crossover. Yeah, this is this is for other people to be using to be efficient in your business exactly, and also in terms of employees abilities there, maybe training costs, but actually be hard costs not only in time, but but if, if the saw if the hardware is very different, i mean, you could end up having to pay somebody like the network it altogether, and then to train employees to operate the network and then as well as operate the devices exactly you want to make. It is standardized, as you can within the organization, so that one person could get up and walk in, walk to another computer and do the same job and not have to relearn. You know where the tabs on where the keyboard durney that’s one of the things that happens between pieces and max, although it’s it’s less it’s less of an issue anymore. But, you know, the key and the maki kind of get confusing sometimes for people that try to make that transition, even though the actual applications may run exactly the thing. Yeah, yeah, i see that because my my office computing, his apple and all my clients use windows and i do a lot of work in my client’s offices, right. So i have special challenges anyway. But talk about that’s different show. Okay, there are you have some ideas for sites where we can find reviews. I love reading user reviews. I love that that the web enables that. Well, there’s two things that i would recommend one is just a scene at dot com, which is not really user reviews, but they are there. I’m not going to say that professionally generated reviews, they’re actually automatically generated reviews, so they’re standardized. How they do that automatically is a whole other topic. Fascinating. I used i used that scene. That site, those air not well, there you are, right. I knew they weren’t user reviews, but there isn’t a live person writing these things. Generally, not somebody looks at, um uh, really? Uh, yeah, they are actually generated by automated system. Okay, they pull your pretty well, um, i’m not sure right now they do a good job, but the other is just, uh, just do a search online for a review of this type in review. And then in the name of the product that you’re looking for. And course, the good part about that is that you will get a just a huge list of possible reviews. The bad part is that, uh, most of them will be completely bogus and badly written. You never really know. Yeah, right now does, like amazon dot com. And you could you could go to amazon and read reviews, but not necessarily buy the product from amazon. Do that. Do you know if they do, you have to be legitimate user to review a product on amazon. Do you know you have to? You have to register on amazon, but you don’t actually have to have purchased the product. Okay, so that kind of, you know, in-kind negates some of the reliability hoexter tenses suggest that the credibility is not as high as it ought to be. Okay, right. Okay. But there are lots of consider. Well, there’s consumer reports. Yes. Yes. There are some, uh, some reliable reporting, you know, agencies, they used to be quite a quite a few more. In fact, i used to do computer and software reviews. Yeah, when i was doing, you know, muchmore freelance writing. Um, but, uh, those reviews have have gone away in favor of user reviews, you know? Personally, i don’t think they’re quite reliable is my own my own wonderful ladies? Yeah, well, i can tell you and there’s probably a reason you’re not in that business any longer. Exactly. Yeah. All right. But now, you know, consumer reports, i subscribe to them for a year. I think i think it’s thirty dollars for a year and you can access all their online. Not not to the written subscription, but for the online. I mean, i go to them when i’m going to spend, i don’t know, like more than a couple hundred dollars on something i go to consumer reports their objective. They don’t have advertising. They don’t take advertising dollars. Yeah, so all right. We have just another minute. A half or so before break before we wrap up. Scott, what else do you want? What else did i keep you from saying? I think really the most important issue is, you know, people always asked, you know, help me buy a computer and i pretty much always start out with what’s your budget. Because it’s pretty easy to start looking. And then, you know, feature creep sets in and know what’s another fifty dollars. Here, what’s another hundred years there, and all of a sudden, you know that six hundred dollars desktop computer that would actually do a wonderful job for you terms into a you know, fifteen hundred dollar laptop with, you know who knows what kinds of extra features agree. Okay, same thing is renovating. Same thing is renovating your bathroom. Your kitchen? Yes. Yes, exactly. Don’t you don’t need the stainless steel pulls on the kitchen drawers. When? When grass will do just fine. Right? Alright, tigress. Okay. Excellent. Scott. Good time today. Thank you very much. Thanks for being on. Scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news. Which you’ll find it n p tech news. Dot com. Thanks very much, scott. Figure. Thank you. More live listener love joining us boring oregon alcohol in california. I used to go to i want to alcohol in. Once i spent two weeks in alcohol and kelowna, british columbia, canada. That’s two two different provinces. Also, quebec represented outstanding. I want to thank scott koegler, of course, and also michael o’brien for being on the show today. Next week, campaign volunteers rich foss is the author of green light fund-raising we’ll talk about recruiting the best volunteers for your campaign, and jean takagi and emily chan are legal contributors returned with law wisdom from san francisco, have you checked out? Are linked in group odds are you have not because there’s over a thousand listeners and there are not a thousand members of the lincoln group so ajar you have not been there, but you ought to be. Also, i host a podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy. It is called fund-raising fundamentals it’s, a ten minute monthly podcast devoted only to fund-raising though i have a summer siri’s on grant seeking the latest is relationship building with foundation program officers and the first two in the siri’s were researching foundations and writing winning proposals like this show it’s always experts whose brains on picking for your benefit. It’s called fund-raising fundamentals it’s on the conical website chronicle of philanthropy and it’s also on itunes, continuing to wish you good luck the way performers do around the world because i feel like doing it. I don’t know it’s, just fun last week, you may recall, was from german, the german orthopedic surgeons house owned buy-in bro, because they wanted you to break. Your neck and your leg. Those the germans this week from australia, chuck us. I’m wishing you chalk us because in the early nineteen hundreds, chicken was a special meal and most shows paid performers fees based on how many people were in the audience. So a full house meant that the performers would be able to afford chicken after the show, and one former one performer would peek out of the curtain. And if it was a full house, they would tell the troupe, chalk us, which is the slang for chicken and now it’s used by australian entertainers before a show as a good wish for a successful turnout. So i’m wishing you focus. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Janice taylor is our line producer and also my language instructor from germany and australia and others. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media on the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules i very much hope you will be with me next week. That would be the twenty fourth of august friday two thousand twelve one two two p m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting which is always at talking alternative dot com. Hyre co-branding dick dick tooting. Getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network waiting to get in. Cubine hi, this is nancy taito from speaks been radio speaks been radio is an exploration of the world of communication, how it happens in how to make it better, because the quality of your communication has a direct impact on the quality of your life. Tune in monday’s at two pm on talking alternative dot com, where i’ll be interviewing experts from business, academia, the arts and new thought. Join me mondays at two p m and get all your communications questions answered on speaks been radio. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Hyre this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment, be more effective be happier and make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking.

141: The Money Is Out There & The Pallotta Pall – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Ann Kayman, founder and CEO of New York Grant Company

Gene Takagi, principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Durney no hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host it’s, so good to be back in the studio. I’ve been away with two pre recorded shows in a week, so good to be back here, it’s may tenth, twenty thirteen oh, i hope you’re with me last week, i’d suffer pseudo member nous kel itis if i came to learn that you had missed small non-profits raise more money consultant and author amy eisenstein returned last week. She’s, the principal of tripoint fund-raising and it took her two years to write her new book, raising more with less. We learned that that time was well spent still two years i don’t know this week the money is out there and kayman founder and ceo of new york grant money is a treasure of valuable information about grants, discounts, rebates and other money incentives throughout the country that get triggered when you re new release, move, expand, renovate, we’ll talk about other georgia triggers as well, investing energy savings, she explains what’s out there and how to find it also the ppa latto paul, have you seen? Dan pallotti’s viral video from ted it’s called the way we think about charity is dead wrong our legal contributor jean takagi principle of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo-sage san francisco shares his perspective on how we got here and what would need to change and should it to achieve pallotti’s vision of amore free market charity sector between the guests on tony’s take two, i’m doing stand up comedy tonight in new york city, and maybe if you’re listening live and local, maybe you could make it my pleasure. Now, to welcome to the studio and kayman founder and ceo of new york chadband company, they worked to obtain economic grants and incentives for clients in the new york metro area and nationally. Previously, she served in the new york city mayoral administrations of rudolph giuliani and michael bloomberg as head of business development for the new york city economic development corporation. She’s, a former dancer, she was doing radio at twelve years old. It’s my pleasure to welcome to the show and kayman and welcome. Thank you, tony it’s a joy to be here a joy thank you. Most people just say it’s like pleasure refund, but joy that’s terrific. Why were you doing radio at twelve years old? What was that about? I guess i’m a born ham. I came from a family of hams. If that’s still a word that’s used today. Sure. It’s couples fashion. Okay, so you’re not kosher, but what were you doing? A radio it at twelve years old, i got invited to to write and produce and be star of home run write a show in grammar school. And it was just a random opportunity in alexandria, virginia, which is where i grew up. And ah, you know, i just gravitated toward that stuff because of my background and family and interest in all that stuff and things having to do with performing. What was your show about twelve years old? I’m sure it was incredibly insightful and thoughtful and you don’t remember. I don’t remember. Okay, all right, let’s talk about some grants and some other opportunity. I don’t want to limit it to grantspace talk about economic incentives. Cool for for our audience, small and midsize charities. Why are these things made available? The idea is that there needs to be some stimulus at all times. To incentivize organisations to grow and invest and hyre create jobs and really contribute to the economic well being of an area or state a country. And so programs have evolved and exist just everywhere everywhere on the planet, actually to help encourage activity that will contribute to the economy of any given jurisdiction. Okay, so we could be talking about city state this’s way also talking federal level opportunities incentives? Yes, most definitely every layer of government. Rnc va ble has something to offer on the economic menu, if you will, to encourage organizations could be for-profit not-for-profits combination, ah, to invest, to grow to hyre to do all the kinds of good things that really contribute to the economic base, the tax base and the you know, the economic opportunities for people, wherever they might be. On the charitable side are their incentives mohr for certain types of charitable work than other types of charitable work. Not really. I mean, where if you look at the landscape out there of who’s giving and who’s getting, you see activity in social services, obviously elder care charter schools, but also theater, dance, performing, arts, culture definitely as well as health. Services and other charitable and religious for example, institutions, you know, you name it, whatever is on the spectrum on the knot in the nonprofit world there some e-giving thank god going on because organizations depend for their lifeblood on e-giving not only by private donors, but also by public donors. Yeah, and i don’t think there’s great awareness that these programs are available at all different levels of government. Exactly that’s why i have a job. I mean, we started our firm eleven years ago with the idea to bridge that gap because there were a lot of things that are were on the economic menu by federal, state and local government. I mean, we’re here in new york city, but we’re not unique in terms of jurisdictions offering stuff, and there was very little in the way of know how about what was available, how to go get it, how to cut through the red tape, deal with the bureaucracy and really maximize somebody’s return while minimizing their hassle. So our team based here in manhattan is designed tio work through that we we navigate the mazes we say of these economic programs for all kinds of organizations. Large and small. And you have dahna a little acronym for for what triggers these incentives rhyme your r i m e acronym? Yeah. That’s a throwback from when i was studying to be a lawyer. And i used demonic says a tool to study for the bar exam. In a way i could get through the bar. That was what got through that got me through a swell. So i don’t remember. Do you remember any any cool acronyms? I remember ocean, which which are the elements of adverse possession. No adverse possession. Okay, open continuous something something. And no tort aureus was adverse. Possession is when you take over land, right? Yeah. For twenty years, you’ve. You’ve done all these things on a piece of land openly, notoriously continuously all that you can take it over, and you own it, they. But if the owner notices it at year nineteen and a half and it’s a twenty year statute you squandered. You squandered a lot of good time and money. Kind of. But you were trying to steal somebody’s land, so you deserve to be thwarted. Yeah. It’s. A very old legal concept. I i doubt it. I think it’s still used in some situations because you hear about squatters, artists squatting in buildings, loft buildings in manhattan years ago anyway, and that eventually took over ownership because the landlords were out of town. They didn’t care. They let the building’s rundown and artists got to take over whole buildings here night that’s, ocean. But we want about ryan, which you don’t spell, right, but that’s okay, are i am for when we when we trigger these things, what what’s what’s our starts off with our what does it stand for? So rhyme is our renewal lease. I invest in property or equipment or in training staff, for example, m is moving, ieave, relocating, moving from one place to another. He is expanding. Maybe i’m in this building, but i’m expanding next door those of the typical triggers for economic benefits because that means that the organization is moving in a direction which lends itself to contributing to the local economy means somebody’s growing somebody’s acting somebody’s, putting money at stake in the system. And therefore government’s interested in supporting that renewing the lease that that happens pretty pretty frequently. Andi again, i don’t think there’s awareness that just because you’re signing a new, maybe five or ten year lease, that there may be an incentive available for you, exactly, i mean, who knew on again that’s why i have a job, but and in most areas that’s where there are, say, designated zones where economic activity is being encouraged in the middle of manhattan? Not so much, you know, but in other areas you’re talking nationally, yeah, nationally in other areas where you’ve got designated zones, maybe formerly distressed areas, areas that are geared for revitalisation areas that are trying tio, you know, make a comeback, those of the kinds of situations where simply renewing the lease, in other words, re committing to your stake in that community. Khun trigger some kind of economic benefit for your organization. Excellent. Okay, um, we have just a minute or so before we take our first break for a couple seconds, so should you look around for possible incentives? Maybe before you’re renewing? I mean, when you know you’re lisa’s coming to a close because maybe not only if you stay, but maybe if you leased somewhere else, you’d be in the same community, you’d be a little better off. Sure, sure, i mean, the most intelligent organizations look att this was saying, there are listeners are no, they’re there, they’re there. They want to be more intelligent. By definition, they want to get more more intelligent, right? Sure, sure. So those organizations are well advised to look early and look often and consider what their options are before, you know, making a commitment, a contractual commitment, somewhere. We have to take a break for a couple seconds, and when we come back and came and i are going to keep talking about the money is out there. All these economic incentives for you stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and endurance? How i’m rika keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant? If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s. Six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? 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Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’ve got to send some live listener love. I love this one. Kamloops, british columbia welcome, kamloops, san antonio, texas, arlington, virginia live listener love going to you and lynette singleton is out there. She is live tweeting the show so if you want to follow the net if you want a live tweet along with her, use the hashtag non-profit radio. Hello, lynette live listen love also new york, new york i’m glad you’re with us beijing china chung ching, china chung shot china ni hao, amazing asia checking in and there’s more, much more to come and we’ve been we just went around the globe and from virginia teo chungking, china let’s talk about your ill a little rhyme i investing now a charity may not ah latto charities can’t necessarily buy real estate. Is that the investment? Is that what the eye is in for? Invest? You know, investment i used not in so much in the wall street sense, but in the sense of spending money, capital on plant equipment staff was raining stuff. What if? What if you’re renovating? That’s? Good to accounts. Sure, you’re spending money in an improvement and of space and ah, that contributes to the economy too. Okay, m is moving was that about moving? So this is where jurisdictions get really competitive and it gets very interesting because suppose, you know, your organization has the opportunity to go really anywhere. You could go to china, you could go to california, you could go to arlington, virginia, shout out to my old neighbor in virginia, and so jurisdictions compete to attract those types of organizations when they’re deciding whether to move. Ah, because that could mean the transfer of jobs and investment and money into community from elsewhere. Your neighbour in arlington did they know when you when you were twelve years old on the elementary school radio? I don’t know, we should ask. Maybe they will remember the show if you remember the show use hashtag non-profit radio arlington, virginia if you can remember what an kayman sure with twelve years old and tell us where we’re watching the hashtag here in studio it was my peak. No, i don’t know that this is the peak e i don’t know if you’ve been on oprah or good morning. America. But this is your climax right here. There you go, it’s. All been leading to this moment. Okay. Thank you. Dahna. Expanding. Oh, no. Moving. Oh, no. We get recovered. Moving, expanding, expanding. You said a little about that’s. A little more expanding, particularly in this day and age. Anybody who’s. Adding to their workforce is like that’s the holy grail of economic development right now, because job creation is where government is particularly in wristed in stimulating activity. So i suppose i have ah, small theater company. But i have the opportunity to grow and add set designers and writers and producers. And what not now, that becomes interesting to government because those are represented jobs and therefore, you know, tax revenue. Also, you look at the sort of secondary effect of that kind of activity because those people in that place of work, wherever it is, are spending money. They are buying things. They are contributing sales, taxes and income taxes. And even if the organization itself is exempt from income tax because it’s a charity or educational or non-profit institution, the people who work for it are subject to income tax, and they pay sales tax. And also the organisation uses up energy, so those air costs, which can be mitigated through various incentive programs. And i find that that’s where also currently a lot of interesting opportunities air had in the nonprofit world. Because if you’re say renovating a theater and you have the opportunity to outfit the lights with led lights or something super efficient or make sure your cooling and heating systems are super efficient, then thie utility companies, in addition to government, have many programs available to mitigate those costs. You can actually get cash rebates against that type of spending. Energy efficiency, right? Yeah. I was going to another when i was going to ask you about. And actually something is coming to me. I want to help you with this rhyme. This eyes misspelled acronyms very, very needs. Problematic tim it’s. Pretty lame. That bothers me. Now, if you had r h, we obviously got spell r h y m e for rhyme heat could be heating air conditioning. And that could now that’s little too narrow. I know, but it could trigger the thinking about, uh, energy efficiency. All right, fair enough. Now we need a why? Like what? Do we not have covered training? You don’t really have training. You have it in investing could be investing in your workers. You could have like you train ad h for heat and why for you train you’d taken a little poetic license there, but it works for me. We’ll take that. Okay, i’ll feel better anyway, if we could just do it for the next few minutes, it’ll it’ll ease me. This’s rhyme is very upsetting to me or i am me, um, you mentioned investing in employees and i think there are special programs for hiring veterans. Yes, yes. Let’s. Talk a little about that. Yeah. That’s. Really? Ah, wonderful opportunity. And i wish those programs, you know, were more robust. Ah, in the federal government, there have been programs, too. Basically give tax credits, two employers who are hiring veterans and and the way they have categorized. This is according tio, how long the veteran has been out of work and whether the veteran has some sort of injury. The state of new york, fortunately, has recently passed legislation that says any hiring of veterans can be can qualify for for again tax credits at the state. Level the jobs and the credits really are about they have to be created in twenty, fourteen, twenty, fifteen so there’s a bit of a lag time between when these things can get claimed and also for non-profits those hiring credits not so valuable, right? Because a non-profit is typically exempt from income tax, hence there’s nothing to deduct claim the incentives are against a tax business income tax, right? Okay, in government world, you know that which is tax can be untaxed so often in the toolbox of economic incentives is our are things in the tax code you khun untaxed something, but in the nonprofit world, they’re they’re limited taxes, which an organization might pay. But that being said, there are still taxes that they pay sales and use taxes usually are exempt income taxes, but otherwise they could be paying real property taxes. If they’re in a building that is taxable on, they could be paying energy taxes as well. Ok, on your site, i saw a white paper that talked about for veterans again salary, salary reimbursement. If you hire a vet that does that sound like something that still i think it was a fairly recent white paper talked about salary reimbursement up to fifty percent. For i think six months. Yes, yes. So familiar. Yes, there is a special employer incentive. A subsidy along those lines. Yes. So that’s on the federal level. So that’s for everybody. Um, yeah, let’s, let’s have a difficult time. Your job search mean, they’re often misunderstood and they’re freaking people who think that that is going to freak out on them and, you know, go go ballistic or something. And, well, it says such unfortunate, such an unfortunate, perhaps stereotype and and so untrue. We hired a veteran, a twelve year army captain. Miz? Yes, ms brandi whitlock. She wrote the white paper that i’m referring exactly she’s she’s on the case. So her her research is current and it’s it’s very excellent. And from first hand experience, she can say that boy veterans are eminently employable. She used to deploy thousands and thousands of veterans too distant lands and has served her time for twelve years and elevating herself to captain, working from as a veterans from since high school. And now we’ve been so fortunate to have her on board for the last and she’s been with us now six months, and i’m telling you, this woman can move mountains. She has tremendous discipline and work-life iq, you know, for for non-profits that want to hire vets? I think it was that same white paper i saw there’s something called national resource directory. Okay, an rd dot gov and also recruit military dot com. Excellent. Yes. So if you want to take advantage of some of these economic incentives, is what we’re talking about around hiring vets, there’s, two sites teo that connect vets and that a job seeking with with employers totally. And and if it’s not in that white paper, we have access to it. People can email us for it e mail her to get ah paper she has written about why people should think about hiring veterans and some of the common misconceptions around that. All right, how do we start to research what is available for us locally? We don’t want to keep this to new york, and we haven’t done that. Do you have some resources that you can recommend for people? Tto find what may be available to them in their state, their community, for sure. And so at the risk of giving away some of my currency here, but i’ll do it because you’ve asked so nicely. Usually i don’t ask nicely. In fact, most guests don’t think i do, yeah, so some of my go to resource is thank god for the web, our national databases of grants and economic incentives really primarily directed from the government, the mother of all websites in the united states is called grants dot gov, and that has a comprehensive how to list of out how to register as a non-profit to access ah, government grants, but also the piela and all compendium of all grant opportunities available, whether it’s for health, education, culture, you name it if it exists from the federal government as a grant or economic incentive, it is in there the other thing that i find extremely useful and extremely current, and i’m so proud that the federal government department of energy is even put this together. It’s called desire use a dot or ge not desire your think enough it’s called it’s spelled d e s i r yusa dot or ge and say that one more time. So it again, please d as in david s as in sam i r e yusa dot or ge, and it is the fifty state compendium of all grants and benefits relating teo energy efficiency and renewable energy. So whether you’re a homeowner or you’re a non profit organization or you’re something else, all of the economic benefits currently available in the realm of energy are compiled here. It’s, incredibly current you could drill into every state of the union and every scenario that you could think of to pull up what is currently available. I find it to be enormously helpful, and i can i consulted all the time. I mean, another thing that i think is an overlooked, often overlooked resource. Isa siri’s of grants from the federal government. And they’re about at any given time around twelve agencies that participate in this it’s it’s about innovation in research and development. Grant money. It’s wonderful there. Phase one and phase two grants the program is called sb i are small business innovation research and its sister and companion program most relevant to non-profits is called s t t e r small technology transfer and research program. The federal government gives grants it’s too small organizations ah. Anywhere from one hundred thousand dollars in phase one, five hundred thousand dollars in phase two to help stimulate innovation and research in health technology. Any number energy, any number of areas that the federal government thinks needs attention and these grants are always available. They’re different offerings from time to time. So for example, this month they’re putting together ah, all the proposals that you khun submit in the field of energy and the environment, the epa and the d a we are and then the national health institutes have put up there grantcraft poses that you, khun submit grantwriting and in the stt r program, which is technology transfer, a small business can partner with a with an institution, a non-profit institution, to put thes to get thes grant proposals in i think, at the risk of being political, this is a this is an area where it pays to think about the good things that the federal government does for us in the in the in the in the midst of all the furloughs and the and the complaints about, you know, government being much too big and, you know, you talk about that that very valuable desire, database and all these grants i mean, so no government is not all bad. No, and i don’t think anybody would have been equipped or even interested in putting that together because, you know, what’s in it for them. But that’s, department of energy, you say exact on monday, so you and i all paid for it, so we should use it. And i’m telling you, it’s under wonderful engine thank you for sharing all those valuable resource is your butt didn’t give away the store? I don’t think you did, because these these things that can be complex to apply for sure, right? That’s, that’s the thing i mean, you know, you find the information on the internet, but you really need to do your due diligence your homework to figure out. Is that item actually valid? Is it in place? Is that information current? And then you get into the whole rabbit warren of applying for grantspace benefits, which means you really have to compile lots of information and put the pedal to the metal as they say it’s a lot. Now you have ah, you have a background in dance. And you mentioned your family was in the performance? Yes. And any spillover between that world and your work it ah, new york grand company. Well, as they say, right? All the world’s a stage. So yes, i well, here i am on the radio, performing once again. Well, i invited your not knowing you have ah, have a background, you’re you’re dancing through the grants world dance with grants that’s good. I like that that’s so that’s not actor that’s. An alliteration in which i happen. Teo, like very much deliberations. I haven’t actually gotten any dance grants of late. All right, we’ll work on getting you a dance company client for sure. We have to leave it there. And thank you very much. Thank you. And kayman is founder and ceo of new york grant company. You’ll find the met and why grants dot com and why grants dot com thank you very much again and pleasure. Thank you. Right now we take a break when we come back from that it’s tony’s take two and then here’s an alliteration the ppa latto paul with jean takagi. Stay with me e-giving thinking tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternate network waiting to get me anything. You could are you suffering from campaigns? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz schnoll kayman if you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr. Robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Dahna durney welcome back. Time for tony’s. Take two and let me you start that with some live listener. Love fukuoka, japan and tokyo, japan. Konichiwa, tijuana, mexico. Hola, that’s. I’m sorry, it’s, about the best i can do from my eighth grade spanish. I apologize. Do you want a wel welcome? Seoul, korea? I know it. I know it. Anya haserot and italy hyre bon giorno, of course, but there’s one asada dahna satya. I am doing stand up comedy much better than what? You just heard that this evening. So if you happen to be in the new york city metro area and a couple of ur it’s nine. Thirty this evening at metropolitan room on west twenty second street. But for the vast majority of you, the vast, vast majority this’s not that meaningful because you’re listening after the show long after, you know, probably the following week or two. So i take this opportunity to let you know that there are my standup videos are on the youtube channel which israel tony martignetti and there’s some stories of unrequited love in seventh grade and being publicly thrown out of the seventh grade chorus seventh grade was traumatic for me, my struggle with the law school admission test there’s a couple of videos that are up there. It’s not old it’s not depressing. You will laugh. People have been laughing at me since seventh grade. That’s the channel israel tony martignetti on youtube and that is tony’s take two for friday, the tenth of may nineteenth show of the year. I’m very pleased to welcome back jean takagi he’s, principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, california. He edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com and on twitter he’s at g tak gt a k welcome back, jean hyre county, thank you very much for having me. Oh, it’s, always a pleasure. Hyre we’re talking about this dan ppa latto video that was that was viral. I think the first one was at ted, a ted conference and then in ten, the non-profit technology network also had him at a conference, but the one i’ve seen is the is the ted version very provocative buy-in therefore controversial, which i admire. I like people who stirred things up a bit, um he’s challenging some basic assumptions and limitations that we have on the on our charitable sector. What what what’s going on there? Well, you know, i like the controversy generated by dana’s welchlin attracted some criticism, but i really love the public discussion on this it’s the youtube and the ted video generated, i think, close to two million views a month now on it can really change the public perception about overviewing what what dance message was or is his general message was maybe we shouldn’t vilify overhead costs and ratios is something negative in the charitable world, and i think that’s a very powerful and important message to get across now, they’re details in there that i may not agree with and you may not agree with us well, but i think that main message is a great talking point. I pulled listeners before the show, and one of the questions i asked is, what do you think of dan? Pull out his vision of amore free market charity sector and fifty percent said it’s brilliant and i embrace it, and forty percent said he raises some interesting points and then the others either didn’t care for it or didn’t see it, but ninety percent either love it or i agree with sounds like with where you are, you know, he raises some very valid points for for a provocative discussion. Yeah, and that doesn’t surprise surprise me at all, you know, i think, however, and talking is a lawyer when we look at some of the rules that are involved, what then maybe saying at lee duitz initially is we need to change public views rather than laws unnecessarily that that limit some of these things. Although he’s launched if you read his book, he’s launched a campaign that will protect the non-profit sector against laws that might limit things like how much you spend on fund-raising as well. So that’s, where we start to get into a little bit more of the controversial stuff and maybe things that don’t resonate as much as compensation, which i think resonates with a lot of people in the nonprofit sector that feel like, you know, if you’re a non-profit executive, you maybe feel like you’re taking a discounter, you’re under compensated for what you might be making in the for-profit world, gino, i have ah clip of his i don’t have a clip for all the five challenges that he issues. And we’re going to talk about them, but i do for a couple, and i have this clip for compensation here’s what he’s essentially saying and we think of this is our system of ethics, but what we don’t realize is that this system has a powerful side effect, which is it gives a really start mutually exclusive choice between doing very well for yourself and your family, or doing good for the world to the brightest minds coming out of our best universities. And since tens of thousands of people who could make a huge difference in the nonprofit sector, marching every year directly into the for-profit sector because they’re not willing to make that kind of lifelong economic sacrifice, we’re talking about limits on compensation, and you and i have talked about this before, but not obviously not in this in this context. What, what what? What are those limits that we’re talking about? Well, the compensation under federal tax laws and state laws may apply as well say that if you’re a charity and you’re going to compensate your executives, that compensation must be just unreasonable as to the corporations so you can’t pay excessively and what? Is excessive is sort of a matter of all the facts and circumstances, but generally we look at comparable than they are, they’re comparable charitable organizations typically, although you can use some other organizations as well toe look at comparable, but are are you within the range of comparables that other organizations they’re paying under similar situations for similarly qualified people with similar responsibilities? So that makes it what we’re really looking at, but that makes it hard than to compete and to go it forces everybody to be at roughly the same level you can’t create a huge incentive by by offering fifty percent more than the comparables yeah, and i think that’s why it resonates with so many people, but i would sort of make everybody aware we’re paying our college football coach is under this standard as well. So there’s quite a bit of room in there for a really, really high compensation that we’re talking about big organizations or institutions like like private universities, well, they confined like a smaller scale. We’re probably not that worried about, you know, compensating smaller organizations where they’re really excessively paying they’re executive directors because that’s very, very rare just under the circumstances, a smaller organization just doesn’t have thie economics t justify that that type of compensation, unless they’re being used inappropriately for, you know, founder to compensate himself or herself way really rarely see that that overcompensation problems, but okay, but that’s, because there’s a big uh there are big disincentives and penalties if there is over compensation, right? Well, i think that’s partially the case, i think the vast majority of charities want to do a good job and served there been intended beneficiaries, so they’re not looking to overcompensate their executives unless executives are providing that return benefit that’s going to be felt by their intended beneficiaries. I don’t think we really get to a problem of excessive compensation, and less boards are using the organizations to pay off often insider and the charity is really running for private interests rather than public interests, and i think there needs to be laws against that, right? But that’s what? You and your finding that that’s quite rare. Well, yeah, i find it quite quite rare when charities are on the up and up about this. There are cases, though, and they aren’t as rare where charities are. Being misused for for the purposes of their insider. Okay, i i pulled listeners on this compensation question. Do you believe charity ceos should be paid comparable to corporate ceos if the organizations and challenges are similar and half said yes, and only about fifteen percent said no, and then there was a bunch of some explanations, which are i’m not sure i have a chance to get to but half think think, yeah, i mean, if the job’s a comparable pay the people comparably well, i don’t exactly agree with that, but what do you think? What do you think, tony? I do agree. I think that a cz long as we can have justification for why the why? The why? The salary is appropriate. The person you know, here she brings enormous talent or connections or, you know, has has had a big track record of success. Then i think it’s okay to go outside the comparables in the community. Why? I think you know that part is what resonates with everybody in this sector and why everybody’s cheering dan, or at least fifty percent according to our poll or your pole but here’s, the problem is that for-profit they’re not really limited to the compensation they can pay, they’re executives on dh public companies are there’s a little bit of an exception in there with security flaws that are involved there, but for the most part, for-profit compay whatever they want, teo executives now non-profits were given the same standards and allowed to go up to that level, then there could be a lot more abuses of about individual charities, even though i think even still the vast majority of charities would not misuse that compensation tool, but with a few bad cases, the media jumped on it, and then public confidence in the sector dropped. Yeah, i was afraid that there’s not going to be just, you know, attraction of mohr individuals into the non-profit sector, which is great toe open up the talent pool because more people khun khun, vie for these jobs that are paying a higher salary, but i think you know, the negative influence on the sector and the public trust, maybe mohr of ah, a detriment to the sector than the individuals that were attracting let’s go to another area that he challenges us on advertising and marketing and his concern. Is that the public doesn’t like to see donations used for advertising, right? Yeah, and i think you probably recognize that somebody who’s been involved professionally and fund-raising as well, tony, that that that donors may not really appreciate high advertising costs, although the impact of those advertising costs maybe very powerful dan is experienced with his breast cancer, walks, a bicycle rides, but there are some some concerns there as well. I mean, the legal rules that might be involved in that we’re not allowed to use charities, uh, to promote the private interest except incidentally, in furtherance of our public interests or our mission. And if we spend so much money on advertising instead of programs, that might be an indication that we are operating the charity for the benefit of the commercial fund-raising organization. So if just to give you a ridiculous example, if ninety cents of every dollar you donate to a charity was spent to offset the advertising cost, do you think you to donate? You know, even though the church may have got ten cents that it wouldn’t have otherwise received, i don’t think the public is going to be happy about that, and even if there were no laws prohibiting something like that, i think there’s a problem there if it occurs year after year after year, with a ninety percent overhead like that, ok, well, but that’s an extreme example, ninety percent right? And the money that you do devote to advertising could be used to increase scale considerably. As as you know, as dan describes in his breast cancer walk charity yeah, and that’s where i, you know, absolutely agree that we can’t we can’t just take a look at overhead and even look at it on a one year, two year, a three year basis and judge of charity based on that, maybe a seventy percent overhead would be justified for a couple years if we’re building up to scale a massive campaign and educational effort, there would be the question about whether the cost is actually overhead or programmatic in terms of educating the public as well. So that’s, really a lot of variables involved, but i think you do need some laws again to make sure that, you know, i don’t know if you received these calls, tony, but there used to be some some abuses here where? People would phone your residents and say, you know where charity that’s affiliated with the policeman or the fireman, you know, please loan it to us. A lot of times, those were run by commercial fund-raising companies that were taking ninety percent of every dollar, and the charities were not really exercising any oversight over it because they were just getting ten cents of every dollar that they would never have seen anyway. Jean, we have to. We have to go away for a couple seconds. We’ll be right back. Keep talking about the the ppa latto paul with a question mark, this is a question. Stay with us. Cerini yeah, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Dahna got lots more live listener love troy, new york. Portland, oregon. Havana, florida, san francisco, california, india welcome, india, you’re you’re location is masked. We know we know that you’re there, but we don’t know where your they’re welcome everyone. Guangzhou, china, shanghai, china ni hao on dh chou fu japan konnichi wa okay, gene, um, let’s, let’s, talk about the risk taking you and i are gonna have to continue this conversation. I can tell we’ll follow it up next month when you’re back, because it’s too rich topic teo, i think just covering just one segment, the next area really is is taking risks. What? What? What’s ah what’s dan pallotti is concerned there. Well, i i think dance concern is that non-profits are not taking any risks. We’re too stuck on the status quo, and that doesn’t allow us to scale the solve some of the big social problems, and we’re not getting anywhere by not taking those risks really important theme, i think that’s resonating throughout the sector i pulled listeners on this one is your charity or one you’re thinking of to risk averse in achieving its goals? In other words, would it have more? Positive outcomes in the long term if it took greater risks, fifty percent say yes and twenty five percent say no and then others had some comments. So fifty percent, of course we don’t know if it’s the same fifty percent of the time, but they seem to agree. But what is it in our by-laws gene that’s? Ah, putting a cap on risk taking well, there are a couple things. The first is the board’s duty of care, so they’re responsible for making sure that the use of the charitable assets are properly used to further the charitable mission of the organization and they have to use reasonable care of what would call and i’m scared of getting into jargon jail, but an ordinarily prudent person in like circumstances. What the hell is that? So it’s the average reasonable person who’s in charge of something like their own business? If they think it would be reasonable, expend their money in a certain way, then that’s permissible, right? But thea average person not not the adventurous, not the average adventurous person. Yeah, because you’re not using your own money, but you’re using charitable funds. We’ve got certain laws that prohibit you from being sort of wildly speculative, but there’s a really important, a sort of distinction to make first is you can’t breathe pretty speculative if the activity you’re investing in is completely in furtherance of your charitable purposes. But if we’re just talking about a revenue generating activity just like a fundraising event but not necessarily a new form of research for breast cancer, for example, but we’re talking about investing on a fundraising event. Now we’ve got a duty not to speculate and that that’s usually under state laws. So we’re supposed to not speculate wildly here, and they would be like investing just all of our reserve assets in one stock and sort of betting that apple is going to go through the roof instead of sort of pausing to think. Well, what if what happens if if apple stock doesn’t go through the well, let’s, focus on what you just said. You can speculate if it’s directly related to your mission. Yeah, you can speculate on a new program that that might do very well in advancing your mission or it might not. But that program is directly related to your mission. It’s not just the fund-raising program okay, yeah, all right, sure, but and then you, of course, you have the the board and, you know, we’re going back to boards tend to be conservative, and then you’ll have donors that, you know, we don’t we don’t talk a lot about failure in the charity sector and and if there isn’t a willing to fail, latto says, as you know, prohibiting failure is gonna kill innovation. I agree with that one hundred percent, yeah, of course, i mean that’s like an equation, yeah, but you’re going to have these prohibition if they’re not legal prohibition is going to have these sort of traditional prohibitions on risk taking and among your donors and maybe even among your board, yeah, and it’s a matter of educating our donors and especially hard board members to invest in that. So we’ve got to invest in educating our donors and boardmember so we can invest on innovation and tolerance of failures. You’ve got something in california unique, teo non-profits there that prohibits this kind of risk taking that puts a limit on it any way you want to say little about that. Well, in california, they’re special rules on how you prudently invested your income so again, it’s just a rule that says you may not speculate and mustn’t said, look to the permanent disposition of the funds considering the probable income as well as the probable safety of the non-profits capital. So if you want to invest in buying a coffee shop, you know that may not be a prudent investment if that’s where you’re putting all your money, even though there might be a very high upside to it. So, you know, it’s usually risk and return are related, and if you’re going to go high risk to get that high return and it’s purely and money investment, well, that’s going to be subject to those laws, if it’s a programmatic investments, then you’ve got some leeway there. Okay, now we don’t really have time to talk about the next to so we’re going to we’re going to hold those off dankmyer latto talks about time horizon and and attracting risk capital by sharing prophet, you and i will talk about those next time so let’s, spend a couple minutes. What would you like to see change, jeanne? Well, i’d like to see that i think the biggest point that that i made in the beginning is that overhead has got to be seen by the public first, something that’s not necessarily evil, overhead or high overhead if it’s used to build scale if it’s used to build solid infrastructures and systems, maybe a very prudent thing. I think in the for-profit world, if you’ve got venture capitalist looking to invest, uh, in some new business, they’re not going to want to see an organization that spent xero on overhead structure that business because it’s goingto say, well, that’s built on a really shaky infrastructure, you know, and maybe a foundation of straw that could collapse at any moment in the future just by going cheap now. So, uh, looking at overhead in and of itself is just a really bad way to judge organizations, and i think that’s the biggest message, maybe the secondary message is toe look att compensation and say, hey, we’ve got to be aware that the next generation is coming in often times with a lot of college debt, and if we want to attract people who have really good hearts into into the non-profit sector and there may be, you know, dirt. That month non-profit sector leaders as the baby boom generation starts to retire, we’ve got to really take care to make sure that that our compensation is reasonable enough for them to not have this luxurious life unnecessarily but have a reasonable life, especially in metropolitan cities like new york and san francisco, where it’s really expensive to live and i gotta factor those things in we have to leave it there. Gene takagi principle of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group you’ll find him at non-profit law blawg dot com and on twitter he’s at g tak e ta ke gene always a pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you. We’ll continue the conversation next time you’re on next week, gary vaynerchuk you may know him as gary v he’s, a new york times best selling author. Very popular speaker, blogger and consultant. We’ll talk about his upcoming book, jab, jab, jab right hook i think i’m pretty sure we’re going to talk about these celebrities are a little tough to pin down, but i think that’s what we’re gonna talk about fremery a simple she’s, the prospect finder, our prospect research contributor and are doi n of dirt cheap and free research resource is, and she’ll have more of those two share next week. Check us out all over the web links air on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com insert sponsor message we have over nine thousand listeners, fundraisers and board members and leaders of small and midsize charities listening each week you can contact me on my blogged if you want to talk about sponsoring the show, i want to give away a social media road map. This is a booklet about a forty page booklet very informative and concise from amy sample ward so post on twitter to get this the social media roadmap i want you to post on twitter right now live listeners the first one to post on twitter using the hashtag non-profit radio i’m listening live too non-profit radio and be sure and use that hashtag first person who posts that gets a social media road map. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. Janice taylor is our line producer and the show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media. The remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules, i hope. You’ll be with me next friday, one to two p, m eastern, et. Talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com i didn’t think the student getting thinking to do. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Nothing. 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138: A Conversation With Amy Sample Ward, Part Deux – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Amy Sample Ward, co-author of “Social Change Anytime Everywhere,” membership director for Nonprofit Technology Network and our monthly social media contributor.

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Zoho welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host feeling a little raw today little tender it’s friday, april nineteenth, and with what happened on monday in boston and then on early wednesday in west texas, the explosion in a fertilizer factory, of course, monday was the marathon bombing and now today, all kinds of craziness in boston, and maybe now, even on a train between boston and new york, we’re not really certain least that’s the latest i’ve heard as of, uh, one o’clock eastern, so yeah, i was goingto ah, i was going to implore you, teo to goto, itunes and ratan review the show, but that just doesn’t seem like it’s. Ah, really has a place today. We’ll deal with that another time. Just give your thoughts. Teo to boston and and watertown, massachusetts. Also a lot of stuff going on was bullets and explosions over in the overnight onda also thinking about west texas? I do hope you’re with me last week because i’d suffer it would hurt if it came to my ken that you had missed followship with alison fine she’s the co author of the network to non-profit and has been thinking lately about opening organizational culture to allow non-profits to be more reactive to the interests and motivations of their followers while still keeping goals in sight she shared her thoughts on followship and social media boundaries are legal contributor jean takagi from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco suggested rules for your use of social media it can’t be a free for all for your employees and volunteers and jean had helped to keep you out of trouble this week a conversation with amy sample ward part do she’s our social media contributor and her new book is social change anytime everywhere we pick up where we left off on march fifteenth to talk about your fund-raising plans scheduling testing staffing budgeting and some tips for your website campaign and i’ll be chatting with amy’s dad also between, uh, well, between the half. Ours uh, roughly thirty two minutes into the our tony’s take two my block this week is keep your marketing simple. I’m always pleased to welcome amy sample ward to the studio she’s membership director at non-profit technology network and ten, as i said, her most recent co authored book, social change, anytime everywhere about online multi-channel engagement the forward is by two time guest of this show, craig mark, the founder of craigslist and craigconnects no, sorry work that in there that has been on the show twice, her blogged is amy sample, ward dot or ge and she’s at amy r s ward on twitter welcome back, kayman sample work. Thank you for having me back. It’s. Always a pleasure. Um, i guess my one of my first my first question is on the cover of this book the word’s, any time and everywhere. I’m showing her the cover now to remind her of the are separated. But they are not hyphenated. Why? Why aren’t they hyphenated the way proper english would be any hyphen time? Because they’re in different lines and every hyphen. Where where is the copy editing on this? On this cover? Yep. I don’t think i’m gonna let you just go by with this job. It’s it’s apparently thie design aesthetic. Okay, which you had no control over, i guess. Hyre okay. Okay. I think this should be hyphen. I mean, i think these things are important in a language, all right, but it helps you enunciate the title very well. Any time, every right. Trying to learn how to spell her. You would think that any time was two different words. And and it’s, not it’s, not everywhere is not two different words. It’s. True. Okay. Um let’s. Ah, i like to reflect a little bit. Okay. We talk all the time about online engagement and with what’s been happening this week. If you are engaged online on your charity, does nothing at all related to anything around violence or maybe victim or family support or politics of guns. Your charity has nothing to do with any of that. How do you respond? What do you do online, too? Let people know that you’re conscious of what happens in the world. That’s outside your own. Sure. I think i mean first i would say i understand the argument of, you know, we don’t work on the politics of gun issues, however, you probably work with people and ultimately in any crisis or disaster, people are involved, you know, and reminding your own staff that it’s not just about bombs or terrorism, this is still about people and treating whatever response, whatever communication you have next in that light that there are people involved in this, i think helps you just take the right tone regardless of where you go next, because you’re then being responsive to what if it was you, you know, you would want someone to treat you are your city or your issue like people were involved. Next, it’s a great opportunity to go check any scheduled messages you have any tweets or facebook post that air maybe already scheduled about something else. Also, look at your content calendar. You know where we planning on sending out an email appeal this week? That was, you know, using the story of this great little kid, and now maybe we don’t i want to do that story or maybe not that message it all this week, you know, not that you have to completely shut down. Every organization didn’t stop this week, but trying to be responsive, teo, the fact that, you know, even in your own goals, you’re probably not going to get the analytics or the metrics you wanted, you know, no one’s going to be clicking through that email anyway, if that’s not what’s on their mind. So looking at not just scheduled tweets, but what’s on your what’s scheduled to go up on your block what’s scheduled to go out and email looking at all of that immediately so that you can either put things on hold, readjust change, maybe which story was going to be in a newsletter? You know, there’s things like print ads or direct mail that that that’s already out there, you know? But people also don’t look at the newspaper and think, i can’t believe that this ad ran like because in our minds, we know that that’s not like a real time media, and we know that that’s program six weeks in it, right? Exactly, but when you see something go up on twitter, you know, when you everyone else is just watching twitter for news updates it it really does feel a little bit more. Careless because they know that you let it happen. You know, you could have changed that tweet. We talk a lot about engaging with people online. Not so dissimilar lee from the way we engage with people face to face, you know? And when when i saw you earlier today, we you know, i told you that i was feeling raw and sensitive and you know, that was that was really basically after right after hello. Yeah. So, you know, i’m doing that in it, you know? I’m sure i’ll do that with friends. I meet for dinner tonight. It’s not it’s, not unlike online when you can have a conversation about this or at least share your feelings when it really it just doesn’t deal with your data your day to day world, right? It’s it’s never going toe. I mean, i don’t want to say never as if any statement could ever be, you know, all all encompassing. But for the most part, it’s not going to hurt your organization to say something like, our hearts are going out to the victims and here’s a link to resource is or hears, you know, the the google spreadsheet that was created to help, you know, people say i found this person or this person is missing, you know, like that it doesn’t hurt your brand, it doesn’t hurt your cause, even though you might work on a totally separate mission to say, hey, we know this is happening, and we want to make sure that we’re one more post in your facebook stream that’s pointing to resource is instead of to something else, okay, excellent. Sabat well, we’re going to pick up with where you and i left off last month. It was march fifteenth with the fund-raising plan, we have just met and a half or so before we go away for a couple of a couple minutes, why don’t you just tease a little bit? Share what, what we might be talking about with respect to a fund-raising plan? Sure, i think last time we talked kind about the components of the plan and this time we can get and i think to the nitty gritty, a little bit more like what does a bee testing really look like in a campaign, especially in real time? How do you figure out what’s working and keep kind of iterating as you’re in the middle of the campaign and then also what does that look like for your organization? Who’s involved once the campaign is live, is it just that development director or other staff? You know, playing into that campaign on then even what does it look like on online? What is what is your website need to do to be responsive to the campaign? Okay, maybe testing. Yeah, i don’t i’m not sure that that really qualifies for jargon jail, i’m not really feeling like putting buy-in jargon, and it probably doesn’t even really qualify. But why don’t you just explain what a be testing is? Sure. So for the most part, you could test everything on your website just by saying, well, it’s, their people are clicking on it, they like it, but it’s a little bit more scientifically valid. If you say have two buttons and people when they came to your website, they’re being presented with one of two buttons, and then you can just leave it up for a few days and say, gosh, anyone that saw the blue button clicked three times more than anyone that saw the red button, for example. So, it’s, just changing one component at a time with two versions, so that you can figure out which works better and then start changing the next thing. And you’re directing people to both of them? Yes, simultaneously. Yep, i guess, randomly, exactly. Okay. And you, you have an excellent example in the book about the the clinton bush haiti fund, and we’ll talk a little about that. Ok, we go away for a couple seconds. When we come back. Amy and i will continue this conversation about about her book and and your fund-raising plan. Stay with us talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, not too many live listeners today, i’m suspecting that a lot of people are if they’re online, they’re looking at cnn or some other some other news source that they trust. But i will say, live listener love out too. Forest grove, oregon and new bern, north carolina also since shu taiwan ni hao and for korea, we have listeners in seoul and young in korea. Buy-in yo haserot glad that you’re very glad, very glad that you’re with us. Thank you. Um okay, kayman sample word let’s talk about some of these details of of a be testing. What does this look like? Well, you can do it. I mean, even though we used the example before of your website, you can do it on anything. You know, you could do it in an email. Newsletters on little microsite, it’s. Just a page essentially, whatever. Wherever you’re trying to put content out, you could do a be testing. So it could mean different photos, different buttons, that text it could also mean having a photo or no photo. You know? Ah lot of organizations will do a b testing specifically around fund-raising with on that on that donation page, does it have a photo or does it just have the form or, you know, does it show maybe a image of some sort that shows, like, how they’re using the funding, for example, or what the project looks like that they’re asking for money for or again, is it just the form, you know? So and that’s it it’s going to change it’s not going to be the same for every single organization? You know, you have to do that testing because if especially if you’re an organization that’s used a lot of images in your campaign in your appeals that’s, you know, that it’s driving people to remember what, what this is all about maybe having that photo there again, we’ll just keep that emotional tie to the campaign. But if it’s your raising money for something that you haven’t been using, that kind of graphical support for, well, maybe people would get there and say, why do you have this random photo of a child up here? You know, so so you want it to be consistent, but you also want a test to see. What’s going to get the most completion on that form. Okay. And so i just said quickly before the break. But you are you are you randomly? Your technology is randomly assigning people too different a and b version that’s what? They be testing it first of a and b version. Is that right? What happens? So there are all different levels of sophistication, so you may be using a tool. Google has a, uh, baby testing tool. Optimize. Lee is another pretty sophisticated tool to use for that, especially around your website. But with email marketing, you could just say we want to send, you know, half the list, this message and half the list. This message or say you have a thousand people on your email list, send the the first one hundred message a the next one hundred message be and then wait two hours, see which one had more opens and then say, great, we’re going to go with that message to the other eight hundred. Okay, so this could be that instantaneous. We’re just a couple of hours. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Now, an email, a popular thing to test is a subject line, right? You could be having different versions of a subject line, right? Everything else would be the same. Exactly. The message inside is the same. But having, you know, a call to action versus you know anyone, regardless of which side you support anyone that’s on a political list. You’ve seen them testing those subject lines. You see messages coming almost every day during campaign season. Sometimes it just has one word. You know, sometimes it has your name in it sometimes it’s a really long call to action and that’s just those campaigns testing out what’s getting the most people to open this on the on the fund-raising landing page side, you have the example of the clinton bush haiti fund. They changed something so subtle, just the words within the button that you click right. The red, they have a red button and i have i’ve read that red is a very powerful colors. Red is supposed to be a very good button color for donate now for donation buttons or buy buttons. So they changed it from submit that the word in the button was submit to support haiti, and they got a fifteen percent increase in dollars per page view just something so subtle is that exactly and part of that, you know, some organizations think, well, we don’t want to write submit because normally, you know what we want them to do is donate or whatever their word choice, maybe, but if you have all throughout your website, if you keep using the word support, support us through your donations, support us by taking this action, and then someone gets to a page where there’s a button that says donate well, it feels really weird because you’ve already been consistently using this it’s other word, so that consistency is important, you know? And again, if if you go look on your website now and you see that on your your donate paige it’s the only place you say the word donate but the rest of the time you really are talking about, support us financially. That’s an opportunity to do some testing because maybe donate works for your organization, and you should change those other places where it says support or the other way around. Okay, excellent example, right of potential testing. Another thing they did there. There’s. This little geo trust verified icon. I guess that it’s a trustworthy site, right? Forgiving? Is that what that is right? And there are all different kinds of those, you know, whether it’s charity navigator, geo trust like all those different things that say, basically, we’re not goingto take your money and do something else with it, i guess again, there’s different levels of what these other certification sites mean to, but some places have found, you know, some organizations found that by putting those kinds of seals of approval, i guess you would say on the donation for more on the button, they saw a big increase, but others have found like they did. You know, when you when you take it away, you actually haven’t they well, they decode, they had to do when they when they took that away, they lost five percent revenue right per page view. Exactly. There’s a trusted icon similar to papal, verified on the commercial side. Exactly. So people have gotten really used to even if people don’t necessarily know what geo trust is or they don’t know what you know, charity navigator is they don’t know what they are, but the fact that it says it’s verified, you know, someone’s looked into these people, give some amount of trust, some of the things that you suggest it could be changed on dh tested form fields, how many form fields you have the donation amounts that air suggested those little radio buttons that you click ten, twenty five, fifty hundred and that’s a really big into change especially, you know, certain campaigns have found easy ways to to mix that up because if they had a number involved in the campaign, you know, if if the campaign was around ah, holiday and it was on the thirteenth or it was a military campaign and they wanted to use the six as there number, and so then you just have increments of six, and you, maybe you say sixty is the default. Whenever organizations test that out, often they find people that the hyre number really does get donated because they’ve just mixed it up a little, you know, they didn’t defaulted to ten, you know, they put it up there a bit because people will still put it down if they want to have a smaller number, you know, but showing kind of the idea with where that preset radio button. Selection is is basically trying to say this is the average gift. This is the normal donation. So it’s not, you know, we’re expecting you to do this, but, hey, most people are doing this one. Thats why its preset on sixty. You know, eso it just encourages people. Tio not think oh, this is just a ten dollar or that’s. Just the twenty five dollar normal donation, you know, so putting different numbers in there that are, like, thirty three and, you know, throws people a little. We have. We have tim sample on the line, tim samples called, and this is amy’s. Dad, he called in last month. Tim. Tim sample. How are you doing in oregon? I’m doing good. Doing good and plays it’s it’s already done, or or a gun or gone where? There’s no evil or we’ll help you. Oregon. All right, there you go. You go. Oregon. Are it’s not gone? There’s? No e at the end. Oh, thank you. Alright, oregon, but i’m right in the middle of work right now, but i’ve had an opportunity to come down on my desk and lock the doors. Nobody bought it. I’m at your disposal. Thank you, tim. You know, i wanted to ask you. I have here with me. You know, this little kind of sort of shrinking kind of wallflower, you know? Never not very engaged. Not very out there. What? What? What is she always like this when she was growing up? Oh, you’re talking about my daughter? Yeah, i know. I know. It’s. Hard to tell. Yeah. Yeah, alright, now, but without the sarcasm has always been a type a personality. Yeah, and always always engaged. Like, was she in? A lot of i could’ve asked her, but it’s more fun to ask you. Was she out there? Like, in activities in elementary school in high school? I mean, she’s, the online engagement, everything poster poster will do you good. Everything she could possibly get involved with. She was involved with her mother, and i tried to give her every opportunity to try every sport, every activity you wanted, you know, you know, as parents, we tried to do that for her can. My god, you’re a good example of amy. I tell this story. He probably doesn’t remember it. But in the second grade, i said anything. You got your homework done? Well, yes. He had two next day’s homework done the whole weeks on. John had read three chapters ahead. It was the last time we ever ask her if she had her homework done. Never had to worry about amy school or anything. Okay. And always self directed, always always getting right with it. And and i feel like he is right now. I know and engaged also always engaged with the public. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. How did we know that she’d end up a consultant and someone that people look to for advice about online engagement? Did you see this coming? I thought he’d be president united states by now myself? No, no pressure. Thanks, dad, but i didn’t want to go into politics. I amy always had a sense of what was right and wrong, you know, always interacting with other children. You know, she always knew what was right or wrong. She never made bad decisions that i can see. And if she did, she so well, i hit way didn’t know about it. All right, we’re back, but, uh, she has a sphere of alligators. Is that is that you’re doing? Is that is that you’re doing, she has a fear of alligators. Is that you’re doing fear of alligators. You’re not aware of this? Well, we don’t have many alligators over here where we live in oregon, oregon in oregon, oregon. No, i know. I never knew he had any fears at all. It was an example after a trip to florida. And tony will let me live it down if it comes up to you. Okay. Yeah, i have a fear of snakes. Oh, i don’t think i pass that on to her. I don’t know if alligators are reptiles like snakes are alligators may or may not be reptiles. Maybe maybe look together. Alright. Alright. We’re gonna let you go back to work, tim. All right, perfect. Thank you very much for calling the opportunity. We thank you that we don’t know if your daughter by tim sample. Okay. Goodbye. All right. I want to have some fun. Do that that’s fair. Okay. This’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. You are in charge of the shop. Future president. I know i the bar’s pretty high now. Yeah, i in fact, when alison find was here last week, i asked her if she thought that a presidential candidate could emerge outside the two major parties from online on. And she felt that it could eventually, but that we would see local, local lance’s first mayor’s maybe governors or senators, you know, but more local than presidential right away. But i was i had you in mind. I had your president cha operations. I don’t i want to. You know, there’s. Another election coming up it’s true only only only few years it’s. Really? Not all that far away. So exactly. Okay, but she felt it was possible. Do you think it’s possible for a for their previous president there emerges online. Yeah, especially. I think around someone from a grassroots campaigning background not political, necessarily, but someone that’s that’s already actively working online to bring people together for other social issues or other co kinds of campaigns. So so someone who’s in it in that way, i think, could easily cross over to say great. Well, now i want to run for for an elected position versus i’m just going to be the organizer that keeps this. Keeps this movement going. Okay. You have anybody in mind? Apparently i need to put myself in the street don’t talk about other candidate. Exactly. Were we stupid? All right, i will go on the record. What’s up today, never mentioning another candidate. All right, um, let’s oh, there was one more thing. I want to point out that matching gif ts is another possible, maybe another another possible testing. So oh, exactly the existence of or how big a match might be, right? Especially, you know, something to think about with phrasing of matching gifts is there’s the version of, you know, if we get to this number, we get that same total matched or every ten dollars gets matched. So then people think, well, my ten dollars isn’t going to mean much to this really big pot. We have to get two of twenty thousand, but if instead you say the matches, you know, dollar for dollar, whatever you khun give, how does that affect your community? Because some communities may really get behind the idea of, like, having to get to that really big number together and other communities want to feel like they’re five dollars, was still matched and still meant ten dollars, for the organization. So think about the way you use the match in your campaign, and several weeks ago, we had a university professor on from university of chicago. John list talked about scientific research around matching gift does. Does a three to one match necessarily pulled more than a one to one match, right and where and on dh, also, in the phraseology of the match, what you’re describing and that will show was on february eighth of this year. If you want to hear discussion about the scientific research specifically around matching gift excellent, we’re going. T take more of a break, another break, and when we come back, we’ll talk more about who gets involved in the campaign, some budgeting, maybe some calendar ring and things like that, and also tony’s take, too, of course, comes before all that. Stay with me. Good evening, dick, dick, tooting, getting dick, dick, dick, dick, you’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Nothing. Good. 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M on talking alternative dot com. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll lively conversation. Top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud. Durney welcome back, live live listener love for berlin, germany joined us good noggin on dh time now for tony’s take to my block this week is keep your marketing simple i’m going to try to adhere to that right now concise, informative, jargon free, i think it’s not easy to do, but i do think it’s worth striving for it just makes your communications so much simpler on the receiving end, whatever, whichever way’s you’re communicating, achieve least shoot for simplicity. My blog’s is that tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twenty sixth ono were who wrote this friday, the nineteenth of april, and that is the sixteenth show of the year. Amy who’s, who should be involved in this work and how are we going toe? I estimate the time that’s going to be involved in our online campaign? Sure, i think fund-raising campaigns just like any other campaigns organization, maybe running advocacy list building, you know, community engagement, etcetera can’t be thought of as something that’s completely contained within the fund-raising department, because ultimately there are e mails and there’s this a b testing on the website and all of those other components require all different staff from different departments, so it’s an opportunity to to create, i think, processes we suggest in the book where you will have regular opportunities for staff across departments, not necessarily like on all staff meeting, but staff across departments that are ultimately all creating the success of that campaign to come together, whether that’s like every week or however your organization wants to do it, to have a meeting where you’re all in the room at the same time, or all on video chat or whatever you want to do so that everyone’s talking about it. So as soon as you break that campaign down into the people that are in charge of the email never talked to the people that were in charge of actually counting how many people are coming through the form, then you’ve already said, well, we’re not even going to have the best conversation we can have with this campaign staff aren’t talking to each other, so creative process first, so that everyone involved is coming together regularly to talk about kosh. We saw that this button language was the best. Well, the email better have that same button. Language, you know, any maybe testing that you’re doing anything you’re learning about what’s working with the campaign should then be immediately reflected in all the other components. So how you either evaluate ahead of time staff time or recognize all those different pieces are maybe serving the rest of the organization. So thinking of of people in communications is not just communications staff that all they do is communicate, but they also served fund-raising and they also serve advocacy, and they also served programs. So what does that mean as far as your staff plan? And what does that mean for your value evaluation of staff? You know, those communications staff in this example couldn’t just say, well, my job is to send e mail and i sent them, but how, you know, how was your function in this organization, reflective of our success in our fundraising campaign were reflective of the success in our advocacy campaign so that it’s showing that that person isn’t just responsible for hitting send on thousands of emails but showing them even in their own evaluation, that they’re part of the whole organization success, which i think is critical for having all of you dafs buy-in toe working towards your mission. You know as soon as you say, well, your job is just the website. What their job is the web site because it’s serving the mission of helping people understand you know what your your cause is all about and so did did they lead the baby testing that help figure out that that button actually could have, you know, in increased by fifteen percent the donations that’s huge that’s, not just the fund-raising team that’s also that person who’s managing the website. What about the smaller shop? Just a two or three person arts group? I mean, how are we gonna build even ah, modest campaign into what we’re trying to. We’re struggling to keep get getting done day in, day out, right? I think, for smaller organizations, but really, the same lesson applies to everyone. Ah lot of of the components of the campaign are actually developed way in advanced. If you’re collecting stories actively as you are working with your community year and you’re keeping those stories not just on a piece of paper in your desk, but, you know, kind of like a story bank you have you have ah, bank. You could draw from of all these different stories then in that moment when you need to create a campaign, maybe it’s a response of campaign because some horrible event has happened and you want to make sure people are aware of your services. You know, for example, you have that content. You don’t have to then spend a week developing. Okay, who’s, who from our community do we want to talk to? You know, where could we get a story about our services in action? You’ve already created that content in advance. So especially when you only have two people, the more you can do to just kind of be librarians, you know, tio, cart, chronicle and archive all that you have all the time so that you can really easily just say that’s, you know the book i want that’s the story i want off that shelf and let’s put it into this email. And then again, a be testing is so, i think, critical for really small shops, because if you really can just say we’re going to send this e mail to one hundred people each and then know that the one that got more opens is what we’re going to send, even though it took you maybe an extra five minutes to go back and say, okay, now, send this list. That was a really great five minutes, because it means you’re getting that many more people opening that message let’s, look it. Ah, um, budgeting our campaign may involve some adwords. Facebook, facebook, yeah, how are we going toe? How do we figure out what what we should be spending money on is beyond the time. That also is an indirect, indirect cost, right? First, obviously, you know, you have to have the caveat of it all depends what’s your campaign about where is your community? Ah lot of people have have realized that you’re not necessarily just going to make all of your money from your fund-raising campaign on facebook, but a lot of those people that are participating as donors, maybe on your facebook page. So thinking about how you budget for promotion of the campaign versus budget, for the call to action, you know, you may want to just invest in having ads showing the efficacy of your work so that when people are then emailed a call to donate, they’re like, oh, yeah, you guys do really great stuff. I do want to donate via email because that’s, my, you know, i’ll just click don’t and go to your website, but maybe it’s different for your organ community. Maybe your community doesn’t really know, and they just need to be told, like there was a disaster and donate, you know, it depends a lot in the circumstances, i think it’s also, especially with things like facebook, where they’re changing the algorithm like every five hours you have to do so. May be testing, you have to invest in that a be testing. So you know which of these ads are working better? Do we do promoted posts, or do we do ads? So some of it is just having a reserve of that advertising budget to test with and you don’t have to spend a lot of money, you know, like facebook ads or not expensive, right? For probably fifty dollars or so you could oh, exactly, you attest? Oh, for sure, yeah, and the problem or the great opportunity that could become a new obstacle for organizations, is that when you get in there to do a facebook at our, you know, promoted post, you’re you’re presented with the opportunity to pick like which gender location, background so many details that it can either be overwhelming and you just say, well, i just want to go to everyone, and then you’re going to run out of that fifty dollars budget instantly, you know, or you get so narrow and who you want this ad to go, too, but it never really goes to anyone, so i think there’s a little bit of opportunity, teo play even just with that. That scale of who do you really want to promote this to? Who is your donor and what do you know about them? Which goes back to what we talked about months ago, about how, you know, investing and knowing who your community is first, so that you can say the right things on the right channels, and i appreciate that your advice always is. What are the goals of the campaign right now, and not only to raise the money that that? Well, actually, the campaign may not be about even about money, but may not only be the explicit purpose of the campaign, but also to grow engagement in the long term, bring some new people to the cause may not even buy-in respond to your call to action, but now they’ve joined your community exactly, exactly, and for them this you know, your campaign that maybe their friend donated to was the first time they had heard aboutyou, but they’re now hearing about you in a really trusted way, because they heard that a friend not only supported your work but gave money to your work, and now they just wanted follow along, and eventually you can. You know, encourage them up that ladder of engagement to become a donor as well. And in that respect, not everything in your campaign has to be about the call to action, right? I mean, i know i guess you want the called action to be frequent, but there can be things that are informative beyond the call to action. Exactly. I think a lot of organizations were shook about a fundraising campaign, i think. Okay, first and foremost, they are donating to this campaign. They’re going to donate to this campaign. They really get that out there, and then people donate and then there’s nothing else, you know. So people feel like, well, i did the thing, but there has to be more aiken dio so recognizing that there is always more they khun dio having that thank you, paige pushed them to the very next step. What’s, the next step for you is that great. Thanks for donating here’s the button to share on facebook that you just donated, you know, or is the email confirmation encouraging them to share their story about why they donated so that now you have one more story and your story bank? You know, so think about what people can do to still feel like they’re contributing to this forward motion because they already donated, which is huge, so don’t take someone who’s willing to take a really big action and then just dropped them off, keep them, you know, sustained that engagement and keep them engaged so that you can ask them to donate again, you know, if they haven’t heard from you, and now you’re asking again for them to donate, will they feel like don’t you remember that i already donated? But if you’ve said, you know, hey, share this on facebook? Hey, give us your story, etcetera, and then you say thank you for donating. Please help some more. They feel like yes, of course we are trying to get there together. What is ah, home page hijack for-profit it’s called many things, but basically i’m sure most people have experiences when you go to a website and you just, you know, landed on the website haven’t clicked on anything, and then something pops up. Even the new york times does this you you think you’re going to go? Read an article from the new york times that your friend just tweeted that and there’s a thing that pops up that says, don’t you want to pay for new york times content? Why don’t you subscribe? That’s that’s ah, home page pre-tax, for example, it’s basically a light box that pops up and says, whatever you thought you were here to read. This is what we want you to read and it’s great for people that if they really are just hitting your home page because maybe they were, you know, searching online for something and came to your website, they don’t know or you have directed people back to website, and it can pop up and say, this is what’s happening here is the called action here’s, that big red button that says support haiti or whatever, and obviously they could close out of the box or lorts like autumn, it etcetera, but the fact that it makes it super front and center left, literally front and center on the website helps direct that traffic into the call to action where you could maybe instead of them seeing your home page that’s, you know, normally fairly generic has lots of navigation, et cetera and drives them to a page that’s just about the campaign, you know, really focused. They can see the donate form they khun see whatever helps funnel people just to the campaign instead of accidentally clicking unlike, oh, what is this organization about? And what do you do and what’s? This other thing? I see a photo of, you know, it just helps funnel people in where you want them to go. You have advice about how frequently someone may see that home page hijack, so maybe it shouldn’t be more than once a week person and the technology will support that our exam twice a week per person or whatever you think exactly, yeah, i mean, it’ll where people out if every time they go to any page of your website, they’re getting this pop up essentially, you know, but if you can say yeah, once a week or the first time someone comes to the website because maybe outside of a fundraising campaign, you could use that for many things you could have it say, join our email list, you know, subscribe to our news, whatever you want that pop up to be so if you see that every time well, gosh i signed up a week ago, and i’m seeing it every day, you know, so just may be the first time that i p address hits the web site, you know? We’re going to take a break in about a minute. We want to have some print possibly to be in support of our campaign. I want to just open that topical bit. We’ll talk more about it shortly. Sure, i think print is actually a great medium, especially for fund-raising still one of the main drivers of fund-raising effort so looking again at that piece as a way to frame all of the content that’s going to come later because you’re going to be ableto change up at the very last minute, what you tweet and what you put in an e mail, etcetera. But if that print piece supports that overall called to action, the overall message and maybe has just won fairly general story that you can then really dig into that story of what that person’s you know, experience was or what those services mean to the community. It’s a great way to frame things as a oh, yeah, i remember this, you know, every time. They didn’t get an e mail from you. Alright, we’ll talk more about this and the fund-raising plan in general. When we return with amy, sample ward. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. 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Uh, anything more than you want to say about print in support of this, i would i would add that prince should certainly be needs to be in this fund-raising calendar with a campaign calendar that we talked about last month and it’s something that we’ve talked about in the past, i forget what episode number, but we talked about competition and how teo, you know, if if you were doing a phone bank, for example, of donations and you and you mentioned the research shows, at least if you were to mention, you know, the previous collar don’t thisyou know people are more inclined to say, well, i’m going to do that if someone else did print is a really easy way to do that as well, because you clearly know where they live, you are mailing something to them. So say, on average, people in your neighborhood donated this last year to our campaign. Oh, my gosh, now they like now i’m going to look in on my neighbor’s like which ones of you donated one hundred dollars? Now i feel guilty, i’m going to donate a hundred dollars, you know? So so keep those same principles that you use online with making it be a riel story, having it connected to something directly when your mission have a very clear call to action. But then take advantage of that local competition that peer pressure of this is this is really, really in your neighborhood. But also this is how people are actually helping us. So you should too. We can also have competition in telemarketing right in our telephone call once just remind i think this may have been last month, but in the way that callers are greeted and encouraged or thanked for their past giving, there could be some competitiveness. Exactly. Exactly. So i’m not just saying like, oh, thanks you want to donate, but also, you know oh, you have reviews caller exactly. The previous collar donated this. And if you can, if you can hear sometimes, you know it’s it’s hard to just make a judgment. But if you could hear that it was a male calling and you could say, oh, well, the man before you donated this if you if you have that opportunity too, to be gender specific, the results or even hyre from studies that say, you know, once i’m told the previous collar was a woman and she don’t even more than me well, man, i want to donate as much as her, so all right, let’s, let’s wrap up our campaign with the thank you’s yes, thank you’s are critical and thank you don’t have to be at the end of the campaign. Thank you should be every time someone’s done something, so when they sign up for that email lists, you know, thank them if they donated, thank them, but also do that thinking in public when you can, you know, you’ll see people in the campaign putting on facebook that they, you know, because they got to the thank you page, the confirmation page, and they tweeted or they posted to facebook that they just donated, well, that’s a great place if the organization is then liking that post you, you know, privacy settings are such that you can see their post or on twitter, the organization is retweeting them to them that’s huge validation the organization noticed that i just tweeted out, you know, that i donated and i’m i got retweeted or i got thanked publicly and that certainly doesn’t take, you know, a lot of effort. You’re not creating any new content. You’re just saying thank you very much. But it can mean a lot publicly for the community to see those individual voices being thanked. How do you feel about the mailing of small small tokens? Oh, yeah, of gratitude. Oh, i think i think a hand written note, even if all it says is, you know, tony, thanks so much for your donation. Amy. It was a hand written note. It had to go through the mail. You know, it means a lot. Exactly. Could be something online, maybe maybe a little gift certificate or a discount to a site or something. Exactly how else can we say the small ways of saying thank you, right? And there are lots of ways where you know it. And ten we can say thank you by saying, you know, to thank you for what you’ve done here is a free webinar, for example, you know, web in our past. But for other organizations, it can also be an opportunity to say, because you donated, you’re now invited to this event that’s only for our donors. You know, so you’re also providing access to something that is otherwise exclusive, and you can use that as a way to say, hey, all of our donors are going to be joining us at this, you know, a local place that everyone knows is really fun or, you know, historic or whatever come join us in this, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, because he’ll be a national campaign, but you could say if you’re a donor, you’ll get the link to the live stream and you get to be there for this interview with our founder or whatever, and even if people don’t want to go it’s still saying, we know tony, you donated, and we want you as part of this conversation, just the act of inviting exact is very, very it is very gracious, exactly in larger organizations that i that i work with, well, often invite people on the other side of the country to a luncheon that we’re hosting in new york city to to say thank you right way don’t expect them to come. We know the observers are tiny that they will, but the act of the invitation what if they were going to be in town for other business where they were going to be in town meeting with someone, and now they can say, oh, while i’m there, i’m also going to go to this luncheon because i donated and that’s really cool, you know, i’ve never asked you this. You’ve been on many times. What is it that you love about the work that you do, this whole body of work that you that you’re involved with? What is it you love? I i love the people like i love that we are in a position to get to support not just one person that we’ve met, you know, and, like, help them do whatever, but we can help hold communities that’s really exciting, you know, or that you can help all of those people in the community know that they’re in a community. I mean, i think that’s the really exciting power of the internet is that people thought i’m the only person that has x y and z here on the only person it’s experienced this, and now they go online like, oh my gosh, i’m not special at all there’s a million people who’ve had this and so part of it is that that feeling of like, i’m not special, but i’m not special because there are so many of these other special people you know, and getting to find them and create community with each other, even when you can’t all be physically in the same room. Her latest book is social change. Anytime everywhere you’ll find amy’s blawg at amy, sample ward, dot or ge once again, a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Be sure and thank him for calling it. I will it’s dad, dad to you? Yes, next week policy versus paper clips a conversation with eugene fram he’s, professor emeritus at rochester institute of technology. Dr fran is author of the book policy versus paper clips introducing non-profits to a corporate model of board governance to cut out the minutia from your agendas so that the board can focus where it should on policy and planning. We’re all over the social web. One example twitter can use the hashtag non-profit radio to talk back after the show. Tell us how we’re doing. You could tell me how we’re doing. I’m at tony martignetti you can follow amy sample ward she’s at amy rs board. We know that the army’s for rene handup, our creative producers, claire meyerhoff, sam liebowitz is our line producer and assistant producer is janice taylor. Shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next week. I’d hate to contract a chronic or acute disease. In the meantime, that’ll be one to two p m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Hyre oppcoll are you going to do? You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, waiting to get in. Nothing. Upleaf hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at w w w dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me. Larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society politics, business it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com everytime was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Dahna hyre

137: Followship & Social Media Boundaries – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Allison Fine, co-author of “The Networked Nonprofit.”

Gene Takagi, principal of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Dahna hi there on. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Have you read it to review the show on itunes? If you haven’t, i’d be grateful if you go there. I know you don’t have to go back once you subscribe, but i’d be grateful if you would make the trip here’s what some people are saying in reviews gold for non-profits the best non-profits show period although that person had eclipsys after that period. So it’s period eclipsys i’m amazed at the variety equality and depth of his interviews. That person probably thinks i’m shallow. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been amazed he should just be fulfilled and his expectations being met. You have no idea what the trouble i went through to put those three reviews up their different accounts, i had to go to a public library, use the computer there. So please supplement those three that i put up with with your own one two, five star rating and and review the show. I’d be grateful. This is friday, april twelfth and i very much hope that you were with me last week because i would develop acute pancreatitis if i heard that you had missed talk between the generations. Phyllis weiss haserot president of practice development council, is a consultant and coach in cross generational communications think sixtieth, sixty ish boss and twenty five ish employees or seventy year old fundraiser and thirty year old donor-centric ship, phyllis had strategies for understanding and working across the generations. This week, followship alison find, co author of the network non-profit, has been thinking lately about opening organizational culture to allow non-profits to be more reactive to the interests and motivations of their followers, while still keeping oz insight and she’s going to share her thoughts. Also, social media boundaries. Our legal contributor, jean takagi from the non-profit and exempt organizations law group neo suggests rules for your use of social media it’s not a free for all for your employees and volunteers, jean will help you stay out of trouble between the guests on tony’s take two. The irs is still using form nine ninety to inquire about your compliance with state charity registration laws. Sounds thrilling, but i can make a lot more interesting than it sounds. My pleasure now to welcome alyson find she studies and rights at the intersection of social media and social change. She’s, author of the award winning book mo mentum, igniting social change in the connected age, published by wile e. Her latest book is the networked non-profit co authored with beth cantor, also widely published. She’s, a contributor to harvard business review online that’s at hbr dot or ge she hosts a monthly podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy called social good. I have one of those, too, and she blog’s a fine blawg at allison fine dot com. They’re two l’s in allison on twitter, she’s at a fine allison with two l’s welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Thanks for having me, tony. I’m delighted to be here. Thanks, alison. Um, you work at the intersection of social media and social change. It sounds like a crossing guard. Yeah, what’s their what’s it that intersection well on off a lot of activity, uh, and a reshaping of institutional life right now. Uh, whereas what used to be on the outside for institutions are in use on the insider is out and that’s the kind of changing of the contours in the landscape that i’ve been taking a hard look at the last several years. What do you mean what’s in was what’s out was in what it’s in is out? What do you mean by that? Well, so imagine tony, you’re running a small social service agencies surety and there are bloggers out there and tweeters and a whole bunch of other folks who are interested in your issue and they’re looking hard. So those folks who used to be on the outside not really able to see inside are poking around now, and they’re talking about your issues and they’re talking about your organization and on the other side, the staff of organisations, whether organizational leadership of likes it or not, are on social media channels and talking about the organization. Well, so what used to be on the inside is now on the outside, uh, and what it does mainly for very traditional non-profit leaders gear the heck out of them. Yeah. There’s ah, right. Scaring about scared about losing control. Yeah, they already lost control. Go continue to care that they’re going to lose it. Okay, on dh. What are your thoughts around? Followship? What do you mean by followship? So now we’re looking at an environment and ecosystem where organizations are flatter, some by economic necessity and others because they’re using social media and networks better and, uh, there’s this changing relationship, as i said between inside and outside and the reality is tony, that people who are open toe helping causes and non-profits aren’t sitting back on their couches waiting to be told what to do, they aren’t waiting for the latest press release to come out, so smart organizations are understanding that in this new environment they have to lead by following their crowd and it’s a very different dynamic. It doesn’t mean they’re not leaders right there setting big goals and saying to folks were trying to get from here, there, you know, we’re trying to end homelessness, we’re trying to reduce obesity, whatever the big goal is, but we need you our crowd to help us get from here to there, and you’re going to do that by being creative and energetic and working side by side with us. But why do why does why do i, as the leader of this very well run? Stewart lee run very efficiently run very productive social organised social service. Organisation that that i’m head of why do i? Why do i need to follow? Don’t i know the goal? What you say you like to say, oz and and how best to get there? I mean, i have a strategic plan, i have a board we’ve we’ve interviewed like minded agencies in the town, in the in the community, we’ve included our community in those interviews to produce that strategic plan. I mean, i think i know best i’m sure you d’oh uh, but the bottom line is, tony, you might think you know best, but social problems are enormously complex. We aren’t making progress in a lot of areas, and if organizations are very honest with themselves, they’ll see oftentimes the lack of progress and we can’t do this work alone, we have got to do this work in communities with communities, and the only way to do that is to treat people as part of your effort, not the foot soldiers doing on ly what you asked. So you’re taking a look at the fact that, uh, things like hunger and poverty and homelessness and domestic violence and climate change any literal way economic we’ve been at these things for generations, you know, so look, over the last thirty years, the needle hasn’t moved on these things, not because we’re not trying, not because there aren’t smart people doing the work, but because they are enormously difficult to solve, and institutions alone can’t solve them. It’s very dismaying to me is i think about all those things that we’ve been at for for generations, but don’t be dismayed, tony, because the great news is we’ve got this, you know, very vital, robust, energetic new way of looking at the world using our social media tool kit oh, and engaging networks of people to do great things, but you’re very encouraged, okay? But you’re concerned also, that people are that leaders are not engaging in the right way. They’re more following their their written strategic plan or they’re they’re treating as you suggested constituents as foot soldiers, you know, do this now, volunteer now sign the petition now. Donate now come to our event, uh, and and and they are exhausted. I spoke to over five hundred social service leaders in wichita, kansas yesterday. Lovely, lovely people. And they are exhausted, tony and they are struggling financially and they’re getting burned out and this is a large reason why pushing the boulder up a hill by yourself as a siloed institution is not an effective way of working. Okay, we don’t have to do it anymore. We have an alternative. Okay, followship is our alternative that’s? Exactly right? Okay, i’m not just made anymore. I’m already uplifted and just just ninety seconds you turn me around all right? So you want teo, you say, you know, take down silos, break down walls, open the culture wei have just like two minutes or so before our first break. What’s our what’s, our first step we need to know where these people are, what they want to do. The first step is listening. Yeah, right. So the first step is once you have come to the understanding of i need to work different, like, you know, there was a world out there that i can connect with. But i have to do it in the right way. Then you begin by listening. What are people out there talking about in regards to my issue and regards, maybe to my institutions. And how can i best help them more listening than we did in the interview’s for creating this music plan that’s exactly right? I’m in a more natural wave of listening through conversation like tony, right? This isn’t a science. This is being human and asking people tell me what you think. Tell me how we’re doing. Tell me why you were dismayed last year when we didn’t do act. I really think social media provides an opportunity for us to re humanize ourselves out there. So i, as the head of this social, i’d like to be ceo of a rather executive director. Okay, president, ceo of this social services so i khun b or i should be engaging directly. Well, you know, social media is not a spectator sport contact sport made everybody hands on and in order for you to run your agency, i think you’ve got to be engaged with your community. All right? I don’t want to break my collarbone. No, like that baseball player did just yesterday. That would be bad. That was just too much contact. But you can’t go on injured reserve. We need you on the field. Okay, on doubt. I mean, i could be having face to face conversations with my folks, too, right? Yes, thanks for the reminder. I never, ever want to give anybody the impression at social media, a substitute for in person engagement. It augments it, it never, ever take the place of it. We’re gonna pick up right there. We got to go away for a couple of minutes. I’ll have some live listener love when we come back and continue this conversation with alison, fine about followship. She’ll stay with me, and i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated ghisolf dot com or it’s. Six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com konnichiwa live listener love to tokyo and support of japan. Konnichiwa. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Live listener love also california. We got san francisco and tustin, california. Welcome, san antonio and clifton, texas live listener love to you as well on dh lots of others to come. All right, alison, what should we be listening if we’re gonna be listening? We need to be asking questions of the folks who are connected to our to my cause. What? What? What questions should i be asking? Well, it’s it’s going to depend entirely on your particular cause, tony and and where you are and your life cycle of your organization you just starting. Are you? You know, more mature. I really strongly encouraged people to actually start by just listening and not speaking. Not something that we are taught to dio anywhere. I didn’t take a graduate course in it, did you? No. And in fact, when i was in the dark days when i used to practice law, i was i was always upset that there wasn’t a billing code for listening or thinking that was another there’s never a code for. Thinking i always had to be doing something, producing some documents, some delivery ble what couldn’t i just bill half an hour for thinking about your case? I couldn’t do it. No, i i understand that. And we, you know, in the nonprofit sector b value, dizziness, a great deal. Uh, but it’s very important to get a feel for what people are talking about, what they’re passionate about, what they’re interested in and then to begin to practice asking questions. There’s a great irony, tony actually have to remember howto ask a good question because organizations aren’t good at it we’re so used to broadcasting, though, used to wrapping up ourselves and talking points that are closed, that learning how to honestly openly, authentically asked a riel question that you want to know the answer to that you don’t already know the answer to take some practice. And, of course, this all feeds into riel engagement in the social networks. Exactly. Exactly think about it, tony, think about the number of times you’ve been approached by a non-profit right that there is a they send you a press release or they send you? Ah, you know, direct mail piece. And those aren’t conversations, right? Those they’re just messages being sent at you. You know, it’s a broadcast broadcast right now think about the difference of if you got from somebody who said, you know, i know that you came to our event last year. Um, how’d it go for you? Would you think about it? What do you think about us? What can we do? Better but that’s a conversation. Okay, okay, now we need to ah, keep our goals in sight. Um, you’re just you want us to be you want me to be flexible and how i get to them. That’s exactly right. There’s a group called epic change epic epic change. Okay, they are raising money to give to for global poverty alleviation. And the way they go into every year is they create a facebook group. They invite their, you know, folks duitz expressed an interest in their cause or rather than few fewer into the group they here’s the goal for the year. We’re trying to raise x amount of money or we’re trying to work in a new country. How we going to do it? How we’re going to get from here to there and people really engaged, it takes those great facilitation skills. That’s what followship is all about right? It’s, not the wild west you’re not just letting it go anywhere it wants to go. You’ve got to be a great cocktail party host to make that happen, right? Keeping the conversation going, but it really is being respectful of the creativity and smarts of your supporters and engaging them in a process of getting you from here to there. What am i going to say to my board that looks at me let’s say this is a five year old agency and i’ve got ah, oh, seven hundred fifty thousand dollars annual budget, right, trying to keep it fairly modest, but, you know, i’d like to have achieved something in five years for pete’s sake. Um, my board expects me to be the leader. What am i going to say to them when i’m asking when i’m asking them to allow the agency to be flexible and taking tio not only take into consideration, but follow the follow the lead of the crowd? Uh, with so if you have a very skeptical board, which would be a shame, right? We really got to think about who serves on board and and why we keep packing them with so many lawyers. Yes, much bigger topics for life, right? Because, lord find on certainly uncertainty very, very unsettling. Yes, you well, now. Ah, so if that’s the kind of bored that you have, what i strongly recommend is that you try followship as an experiment, take one small area in which you work for this year, maybe it’s one fund-raising event, maybe it’s one new program or revamping an existing program and try out the idea you’re not throwing the whole organization out. You’re continuing with the things that work. But you are figuring out a new way to work with people that will be particularly appealing to younger supporters. That’s, i think, is the case you could make any board. Okay, we’ll take it and we’ll take it in bite-sized pieces. Could it be? Could we do this around an event? Absolutely. You had suggested the event earlier. How do we do have a wee look what could have done better? Think about the difference tony of posting on facebook from a group that you’ve liked that says march nineteenth is our gala dinner buy your tickets now from a post echo’s up six months earlier that says we’d like to do a spring event. What kinds of things have you been to lately that you like? What kinds of things do you think we could do and start a conversation about it? Which one do you feel more excited about? Yeah, i’m going to participate in the latter. Mohr you engaged me now i have a pretty sizable ego, though. It’s gonna be hard for me now. All right? So you’ll help me persuade the board. Now, i have to now have to persuade myself that i don’t have all the answers in our community geever so if you feel that you have all the answers, i would suggest social change work is probably not a good fit for you. Therapy is probably wise psychiatry, perhaps even psychotropic drugs i’m already using them. I’m afraid already on psychotropics led me to this delusion. This is really, really hard work now, okay? It doesn’t mean that we don’t need mars confit and people running organizations. Of course we do. But if their ego is so large, they don’t allow other people. To help them solve large community problems, and they’re not going to get very far because these are collective problems that need collective solutions. You’re critical of president obama’s campaign back from two thousand eight what what happened there? I don’t think so much in two thousand eight is as opposed to this last one, so two thousand eight it was great fun, right? They let people come in and gave them a menu of things that you could do and let them go, which is great then they forgot about them once they got elected. I didn’t quite know what to do with a multimillion person proud once they got into the white hot right house because, you know, forbid somebody should talk about marijuana or something that made them uncomfortable. So they put them all into a direct mail, dona base and that’s. What they did this last election cycle was that they had a very clear, tightly controlled, um, ways of managing people as fundraisers and as voters. And that was it. So i found the last cycle enormously disempowering for people. Zamora how they treated the two thousand eight followers. Exactly in two thousand twelve you don’t really think you’re so smart and creative anymore. We don’t really need your help that way. All we need are your checks in your vote. People have a lot more to give them that ego. We know it now. We’ve been in office for years. We know what we’re doing, we know what we’re doing, and we’re going to control this thing to get from here to there. Allison fine is and author most recently of the network to non-profit, which is widely published and that you can find it on amazon. You can also find it on the barnes and noble actually found it a little less expensive at barnes and noble. Um, and i want to send some more live listener love, so to new bern, north carolina, frederick, maryland, and lasalle, illinois live listener love we have listeners in china knee how that’s from shanghai and hei bai, the asian continent very well represented for tony martignetti non-profit radio. Thank you. I’m glad you’re with us week to week. Um, alison, do you think a a presidential candidate could emerge from the social networks? I think what we’re going to see tony is we’re going to see it start at a more grassroots level. We’re going to start to see some layers around the country and then some governors who come up this way. Uh, it’s too hard to try to scale this at a national level first, i think, but you’re going to find somebody who’s very good at this. And, you know, rand paul could be that person because the tea party really get followship or there really are they particularly grassroots organizing online in a way that other people down they are particularly good at online engagement there. Fenton, stick at it. How so? What? What does that they do that you admire? Uh, they allow lots and lots of people to talk very loudly. Right? So being loud doesn’t bother them at all. A part of their dna. Being loud bothers other organizations and awful lot. It scares them. They support local organizing without having a need to try to control all the local organizing. They’re fried or foundation does the same thing right gives you an idea of what you should be doing. So the local p party talk. About these kinds of things, but when and how you do it that’s up to you say the name of the foundation again. You cut out. I’m sorry. The surfrider foundation. Thank you. Surf rider. Okay, they’re fried. Er it’s a non-profit thirty five years old in county started in california to provide coastal cleanup. They have hundreds of, um, chapters around the country. And tony, they basically let them do what they want to do. If you want to mash up our logo, go ahead. If you want teo street cleanup this year instead of coastal cleanup, go ahead. And in the end, the spokes do an amazing amount of work on dh. Just engage thousands of volunteers in this third rider. Like the tea party, i understand that you can provide big goals. You can provide the contours of what we need done and then let people go. Those are excellent examples. I never thought of the tea party as as such a good example of online engagement. But yeah, everything you’re saying is true. They do. They said broad outlines and and then they have hundreds of local activists and i mean and low under the local. Chapters and they’re not worried about descent. They’re not worried about disagreement, they’re not worried about some yelling. You know what happens to awesome with organizations, tony, is they’re so concerned about anything that smacks of criticism that they find it very difficult to step outside in unguarded ways. All right, um, the strategic plan that i’ve mentioned that we my organization spent about twenty thousand dollars on for a consultant to help administer and do the interviews and coalesce, and we had that nice powerpoint deck that they presented to the board a year ago. What am i going to do with my strategic plan? Throw it out. Oh, allison, fine, i said i was being very polite when you mentioned it the first time, and i didn’t bring it up. What a waste of money it was. Well, all right, let’s, talk about it now, because i’ve got my board on board and i’ve set my ego aside. That’s a very big step. Yeah, but it hasn’t solved the problem yet, right? So look how many groups you know that spent all that time and money on a strategic plan. Do everything in the planet at the end. Go the boy. That was the best thing we ever did. All right, maybe one or two over my career. Mainly. What you hear is holy, who spent a lot of time on that thing for sure. And in that process, you know, closer to your community as an organization, right? You had an outside or talk to them a zoho you couldn’t talk to them, which i don’t underst dan oh, that’s interested? Yes, i can’t talk to your community. That’s the core got a scientific approach, tio data collection because that’s the corner of their plan. You know, i was a program evaluator for a long time, tony. So you know, i have respect for people who collect data, but to say that you need an outside to come in and interview stakeholders for your organization, as opposed to the conversations you should be having every day with the people who are most important to your efforts. I don’t get it. And then the worst part, though, is pretending that we can project out years at a time. Right now, when anybody who’s successful in business will tell you right now that you can’t plan out more than a year? You just can’t your troublemaker. I am okay. And i’m small, so people really kind of leave me alone. I admire troublemakers. I like things to be shaken up. It’s a school during you call a pot stirring okay? During, right? Something that pops. Not so much troublemaker. All right, i’ll call you troublemaker. You call yourself a buster? How does the occupy movement do? Just we just have about two minutes left. What’s your assessment of them. I think that, uh, i think it’s fascinating. I think they did a great job of turning out. Ah, lot of people. But i think of that kind of organizing tony like a pointillist painting. It’s one dot and it’s going to take a lot of dots over a lot of time for that thing to mature. It’s. Not over yet. It’s just in its infancy ilsen. Fine. I hope you’re going to come back. My pleasure, i hope. It’s been my pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much. Alison. Fine. Her latest. My pleasure. Her latest book, the network non-profit co authored with beth cantor. You confined it. Amazon. You can find it at barnes and noble and on twitter, she’s a fine thankyou again, alison. My pleasure, tony talking. We’re gonna go away when we come back. Tony’s, take two about some charity registration technicalities and then social media boundaries with jean takagi. Stay with me. Ditigal lending the dude in the good ending, you’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. Nothing. Cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Lively conversation. Top trends and sound advice. That’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud. Dahna and i’m tony martignetti tony martignetti non-profit radio time for my take to taxes are on everybody’s mind april fifteenth coming up so i’m talking about the tax form that charity’s fill out the nine, ninety and between that form and one of its schedules, there are two questions that probe your offices compliance with state charity registration laws, which i always think is interesting that’s a federal agency questioning whether you’re complying with state laws. It’s not a good idea too fudge on those questions because you’re nine, ninety assigned by an officer under penalty of perjury. So you want to be conscious of your compliance with those registration laws in each state where you are soliciting donations, it’s not enough to just be registered in your home state if you are soliciting in other states. The post on my block is irs continues inquiry on charity registration compliance the block is that tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twelfth of april fifteenth show of the year jean takagi is with me he’s, our regular legal contributor to the principal at neo non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco he edits the popular non-profit law blogged dot com, and he is at gi tak gt. A k on twitter. Jean takagi, welcome back. Thanks, sonny. How you doing? I’m doing well, pleasure to have you back, it’s, good to talk to you. We don’t want to need to set some boundaries around social media. Why do we need more than just sort of usage guidelines? Well, let me first get some of your opening comments, tony, dark days when you’re a lawyer. Oh, yes. So you have a song about just go i jean i you know, i i love that you love the practice of law, it did not do for me what it does for you, but i appreciate that, tony, it definitely isn’t for everyone. And i heard alison’s comments as well about lawyers finding uncertainty unsettling on probably being deal breakers and, well, now i don’t think she said, did you say deal breakers? I know should i sort of added okay, well, let’s, not let’s, not put words in my mouth because defamation is one of things we’re going to talk about your there we go. So part of the reason why you need you need rules in this game. And so i actually agree with ours that lawyers do find uncertain uncertainty unsettling, and we can sometimes be deal breakers, which are my words and part of the reason why is that? Because if we give advice, tio some organizations and, you know what, consultant were to give that advice and has ninety nine percent effectiveness and ninety nine percent of the organisation it works really well, there is that one percent it might not work well point, and they might actually get in trouble using that advice with the lawyer we can’t afford to do that. We’ve got to make sure that we’re protecting one hundred percent, which means we can’t quite be is aggressive in some ways in other ways we can let organizations and our clients know how we can empower them to let them know what is okay to do and that they should feel comfortable doing it, that it may be part of theirs, their duties in terms of furthering their mission in order to engage in those things. So that’s one of the reasons why, why we wantto have rules so there’s a better understanding of how to play this game of using social media. And, you know, i think, tony, when you play any game, we should read the rules first, right? They understand what you’re doing. My favorite game is monopoly. I don’t like other players to read. The rules just, you know, yeah, i know. And then and then, you know, i have a good eye use the rules of sort of guidelines, and then, you know, i’ll borrow a little from the bank and things like that, you know, at below and at below market rates and things like that let’s go actually into a couple of those things that you talked about borrowing money from the bank, okay? Let’s say, you know, we organize this nationwide effort and have our volunteers go out and create different events fund-raising events in, uh, in different locations throughout the country, on behalf of our organization and furthering our movement. Well, let’s say, we’ve got ten of these things going on in seven go really well, can we gene, can we taken example? I’m thinking of ah, move on dot or ge, they are frequently get their emails, attend an event in manhattan or the bronx or, you know, can somebody in well, they know that i’m in new york, so they don’t ask me to host elsewhere, but they’re certainly doing these things throughout the country. Yeah, and a lot of organizations are now using facebook and and other platforms toe mobilize their supporters throughout the country, right? Okay, so, you know, let’s, say it’s an organization that’s like move on that that’s got a nationwide presence with a lot of supporters throughout, and they’ve got some active people in different locations again, let’s say they’re ten events and seven go without a hitch and raise a lot of money for the organization. But one of the things you asked and when the things you talked about your take two is, are they registered in those states in which the volunteers there suddenly engaging in these fund-raising activities? Because if they’re not, that can get them into trouble, right? Tony, i think you know better than anybody it can is the now the volunteer yeah, they’re volunteer is acting as an agent of the of the organization at that point. Or is that? Is that a question? I think that’s a question and, you know, the more that the organization is telling the volunteer on how to organize the event and what rules should apply to the event and how the money should be collected and forwarded to the charity, i think it looks more and more like it the organization’s event and charity registration has got to be something that considered okay. Now i’m skirting jargon jail. We haven’t talked about jack in jail for weeks. I’m disappointed too many. My guests are plain talking, plain language. I don’t like that like abstruse language talks over everybody’s head. So why don’t you help define define for me? Because i said, are they an agent, but that that actually is a term of art has legal import, doesn’t it? Yeah, so generally an agent is acting on the authority and on behalf of the principal. So if i ask, skew tony and you are except that you’re going to make a donation on my behalf, another charity and i give you the money to make that donation. You’re acting as my agent, your not making your own donate donation of money. You’re donating the money on my behalf. You have certain responsibilities by taking on that relationship. I’m the agent and you’re the principal in that example, correct. So if the charity tells a volunteer agent to start fund-raising them and organizing an event on their behalf, then it’s really the charities event and the volunteers acting as their agent, which means the charity has responsibilities in that jurisdiction. Okay, okay, so the other things that you raised is, well, what if somebody just took off with the money? But if you’ve got a volunteer there but you have no staff presents there and you don’t really know this volunteer, you just sort of engaged with them online, and all of a sudden they’re holding this event for you, and they take off with the money. Now, what happened? What did you do? What? What? Showing a reasonable care did you take to make sure something like that wouldn’t happen then the awful thing is, what if somebody gets hurt at this event and right? And now in this case, it doesn’t even have to be an event that is a solicitation event like maybe we’re just we’re just rallying the troops, but we’re not asking for any money we’re not soliciting, just trying to maybe we’re all watching a video together or it’s some, you know, kind of activist activity, but but no money is changing hands. Go ahead. So something else could happen. Yeah, exactly. Right. So whether it’s just being an educational event, uh and you’ve got some people out there, they’re gathered together under the charity’s name and you know, they’ve gotten together and maybe there weren’t any steps, teo, prevent some risks or maybe it’s like a walkathon, so maybe it is a solicitation event that’s part fun solicitation, but there weren’t these risk management steps that were looked at charity. The cherry didn’t really take any step to make sure that no harm’s could be prevented that were reasonably foreseeable possibilities of that. So those are things that charities have to think about when they start to mobilize their supporters are are the supporters holding their own events? In which case do do those people after register in order to fund raise for another charity? That might be an issue as well? Or is it the charity’s own event, in which case the charity’s got to think about registration and also creating rules of the game again that have to do with holding that event to make sure that the people who attend or the people who have money get solicited are protected? I’ve got two troublemakers on the show today you’re a lot of trouble, gene, you’re asking a lot of questions? Let’s, try toe help with some answers. What? What? What do you know? Right now, we know what we have to think about, but what are we going to do should we not be hosting these events? Or is it cannes insurance help or we need we need written regulations about what volunteers khun do in other places. Where we supposed to do? Yeah, i think we’ve got to figure out first two’s event is it? Is it the charities event? Or is it the individuals that are gathering together that are raising funds on their own? And if they’re raising funds are their own? Are they going to get in trouble? And should we try to help them understand what their responsibilities are in what limitations there are for them to start raising money on their own without being under the umbrella, if you will, of the charity so rules of the game, first who’s event is it, and if the charity has authorized and encouraged it, it should try to protect those people who are going teo organize the event as well as those people were going to attend the event and having rules there instead of just guidelines makes perfect sense to me, you know, you you’re not allowed to, uh, you know, serve alcohol to minors may may seem, you know, very simplistic and obvious, but sometimes when you’ve got volunteers who you’re unaware of, you’ve not screamed, not interviewed them. Um, you’ve got to be really explicit about what’s, okay? And what’s not okay, even if you think it’s obvious. So rules of the game and rules of the event, i think there’s something that you have tohave in-kind also have some people, you know, on the charities staff that or they’re volunteers, if they’re in all volunteer organization really think about risk management of that event, what risks are involved? And should we take steps like having a first date? You know, kid available or having some people there are having a written release and waiver of liability form that all event participants find those air things to think about? And then the charity registration thing on top of that, if it’s an event of any significance, i think you have to really seriously think about that and probably by your book, tony. Okay, or have me register for you. There you go. Now what if the agent doesn’t follow the rules, then? Is the organization protected at least? Well, maybe, maybe not, but what could i have got any colonization playing the agent and sue the agent? But whoever got hurt from that if its a charity, that man is going to kind of everybody. And if the charity has a deeper pocket than the agent and if it’s, you know, just day ah, volunteer who may not have ah, a lot of that worth and the charity may have a deeper pocket, and the plaintiff lawyer will go after the charity in that case and if they’re not register stirred on top of all of this in that state, it’s going to look even worse for the charity in terms of saying, well, you know, we tried our best, and we just didn’t you didn’t weigh had rules, but but the the solicitation was illegal because the charity wasn’t registered in the state. That looks bad. Yeah, your insurance company might, even if you have insurance might say, well, you’re operating illegally. We don’t ensure that well, okay, uh, okay. So we we strayed a little bit from social media, but that’s fine, because we’re talking about events which might be propagated through social media. What about more directly, you know, the advocacy advocacy online? Sure, i mean, i guess he’s a big thing for for non-profits and i’m just a big proponent of non-profits engaging in a lot of advocacy to further their their mission, but social media channels again allow, you know, a lot of questions to rise, like whose message is being sent? You know, we’ve allowed staff members and volunteers in this kind of followship model that that alison is describing in and where everybody’s is contributing, are you going to be sending conflicting messages? And are some of those messages going toe actually be attributed to the organization and not be a communication of the type that the organization is allowed to do? Like an election eri and communication worth jargon jail right durney election hearing endorsing a political candidate which a five a one c three cannot do, but an individual can do so it gets a little grey when an individual uses an account that has the organisation’s name somehow attached, whose account is it? And is that communication? Ok, ok, but what about i mean, alison was sort of seeking feedback from from the community, i mean suppose someone uses their own account to post something on the organization’s facebook page or or points ah, address is a post on twitter to the organization that i mean that’s what the person’s using their own account? Yeah, i mean, would that be ok, though? That’s the organization is not responsible for that one, is it? Even if it’s just on their facebook pages, somebody else posted it? Well, let’s think about that. What? What if it was a really defamatory statement against somebody? Or what if it was endorsing a candidate for political office, tony and the organization has control of that facebook pages being able to delete that comment out of there, should they do it? Or should they just let it sit there? My my feeling is conservatively, you’re going to want to delete something that would be illegal if the charity had posted it itself. Obviously, you don’t want to show opinions and participation of your supporters on the facebook page, but you don’t want, you know, people the flame or defame others, and you certainly don’t want, uh, charity metoo attributed with endorsing candidates or engaging in some sort of private benefit that that benefit thie organizations, insiders. Those can all get the organization into a lot of trouble. We’ve got to go away for a couple of minutes. When we come back, jean run, and i will keep talking about the social media boundaries. And i’ve got some live listener love for the korean peninsula. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Latto are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Altum have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back on io haserot for soul, young son and day, john korea on your haserot. Dahna. As i said last week, especially south korea, in our thoughts, lots of saber rattling, you know, i saw i saw seventy something interviewed, and he said, the north is just like a schoolyard bully. It’s, no big deal. Andan. I saw a twenty something interviewed, who said she was nervous and pays attention to where exits are. When she’s, when she’s in buildings. So, anyway, are our thoughts are with you, south korea jane. Let’s, let’s see about okay, so let’s, continue with this online. The all these questions about online your you think that? Ah, non-profit should delete things that it wouldn’t be able to print or ah, post itself on, say, facebook or twitter? Yeah, i think it depends on the channel that you’re using. Sometimes you’ve got listservs where you’ve got a charity, that’s decided not to moderate the contact content, but put in disclaimers that might be one set of rules that applies. But with your facebook account, i think you’ve got to be be careful, especially if it’s a page that’s under the control of the charity, if their comments on there again, that would be hurtful to the charity or hurtful toe. Others that’s something that you might think about the leading, and if it’s obviously going to be in violation of of laws, you’re going to want to report it. You know, it’s against facebook zone privacy or policies as well, but to protect the organization, i think that’s really important, and that gets into what we were talking about earlier about defamatory statements, um, could also be is like harassment? Yeah, absolutely. So you’ve got to be careful, there’s. Some sometimes employees or even managers will use social media channels now to communicate with their people that report to them and got to be very, very careful that they’re not sending messages that if they communicated in real life or by email. This is not all of a sudden. Better because it’s being broadcast on social media. Aren’t there also issues around posting other people’s content? Either me either an excerpt or even just linking to it let’s talk about that? Yeah, it’s a great question. Tony gets a little bit confusing when we’re talking about copyrights on copyright protection there a lot of non-profits out there that are just accepting from other sites and thinking that as long as you attribute that that source that it’s okay, and that might not just be content written content, but that could be photos and music as well. The company presentation, you got to be careful because somebody else owns that content, and just because they’ve published it on the web doesn’t mean they’ve given free permission for anybody else to copy and use it so that can get organizations into trouble. There are some some exceptions for fair use, uh, which might involve charity or commentary or criticism on sometimes for non-profit educational purposes, but that can get really big. Ah non-profits really want to know what they’re doing when they are borrowing or accepting content from other sites or from other individuals, and then suddenly posting it on their own and again, even with attribution that that may not be sufficient. Yeah, attribution doesn’t hear it. So you’ve got to make sure that either you’ve gotten written permission to use that content or you’re using it in a fair way that would not create an infringement liability issue. Okay, but those fair, those fairways, those those are the exceptions that you were talking about in fair use and they’re pretty pretty well defined. Well, not so well defined. Well, ok, they’re specific categories. Yeah, and they’re definitely enforced in different ways in different jurisdictions. So if you just read, you know, website resource on fair use don’t rely on that, but i do encourage all non-profits if you are borrowing or accepting or commenting on other people’s content and putting it up on your own sites to make sure you understand what the rules are, so do look some good, you know, reputable web resources for that and then move on from there in california, we’ve got an organization called public counsel that’s got excellent information on copyright and fair use, and i think other other states organisations could probably look at that stuff as well, because some of the state laws will be similar and just get a general idea of what the rules are and that’s a public counsel c o u n c l e that’s, right. Okay, just a couple of minutes left before we have to go away. Gene. So if there is a violation or something you’re you’re just concerned about you talked about deleting the post, what else should we be conscious of? Well, i think the important thing, especially on a governance levels way talk about board board duties now, tony is the board to develop a social media policy for the organization, so now they think and delegate the drafting out to management, but to have a social media policy and to make sure that everybody using social media on behalf of the organization understands what the rules are and what the risks are, because those those volunteers and supporters want to do good things for the organisation for its missions, they don’t want to go get the organization into trouble, but what happens is oftentimes they just don’t know what the rules and risks are, so educating them through a policy have guidelines for sure, but also have solid rule in place that don’t allow them to. Do things that would violate the law think that’s critical, just like thirty seconds left. Jean how about apologizing on the site where the violation occurred? Sometimes i can work, some sometimes can get you into more trouble, so you know, sometimes you’re just during the pot even more tomorrow how allison’s, where then? And that can create more more divisions, so it sort of look at it on a case by case basis. Look, a senior management, the american red cross put out a tweet before that says this was a rogue treat that says, when we drink, we do it right getting withered. This was a mistake, somebody using their personal account and thought they thought they were using their personal count. Instead, the american red cross account american red cross immediately came up with an apology that said, we’ve deleted the road treat, but rest assured the red cross this sober and we’ve confiscated the keys, humor, apology and everything worked out just fine. All important points to keep in mind. Social media is not just a wild west gene takagi principle of neo, you’ll find his block at non-profit law blogged dot com, you’ll find him. On twitter at gt a kg tech gene, thank you very much. My pleasure to talk to you again next month. Got some final live listener love teo taiwan we don’t know the city, but taiwan welcome and ni hao next week a conversation with amy sample ward reduction part do we’re talking about her new book co authored book social change? Anytime everywhere we started last month and there’s more to cover about your fund-raising calendar and social media. Andi, i’m hoping for a special appearance by tim amy’s, dad hoping we can get him to call in like to have a little fun with tim sample we’re all over the social web can’t make a click without lador a spark a testa trying to say, smacking your head hard into tony martignetti non-profit radio pinterest for example, i’ve got boards for the show and my blogged my favorite board on pinterest, though that i’ve got is women leading non-profits lots of videos of female non-profits ceos like abby falik of global citizen year and marry in wright edelman of the children’s defense fund. If you can suggest some that are missing, please do our creative producer is claire. Meyerhoff sam liebowitz is our line producer, but not today. Today, the line producer is janice taylor. We don’t have an assistant producer, but we struggled through. Janis filled both roles. The show’s social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. I hope you’ll be with me next friday went to two p m eastern at talking alternative broadcasting, found at talking alternative dot com. Duitz found anything? That dude, in the good ending, you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get him. E-giving you could hi, i’m donna, and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream. Our show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what you’re born. Teo you society, politics, business it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic. I want to go what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage. Tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio, dot com. Every tower is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening. Tuesday nights, nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Talking.

135: Discover Your Brand & Content Marketing – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Nadia Tuma, brand innovation strategist with clark | mcdowall.

Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News.

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Metoo hyre hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host. I want to wish you cog, posca, so make i hope i’m saying happy easter in, i’m trying to say happy easter in hebrew and ah and happy passover in italian is born passat born peskay it’s march twenty ninth, two thousand thirteen and i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be disgusted to hear that you had missed irs sale in aisle four o three b evan giller, a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun, explained, the i r s is fifty percent off the penalty sale for four o three b retirement plans that are not in compliance. Many plans are not up to code, and this is the year to fix the problems we talked about the common mistakes and what to do and compensation clarity are regular legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan of the san francisco law group, the non-profit and exempt organizations group answer these questions how do you determine what’s reasonable compensation for executives? What happens if camp is excessive? And what’s that automatic penalty that kicks in if you don’t properly disclose benefits. We did a mock board meeting and i walked out remember i had sound effects and everything. I’m amusing myself if you refuse to be amused. I’m amusing myself last week. I want to make something clear. Last week i had said that gary vaynerchuk, gary v you may know him as had been on last week, which would’ve been two weeks ago. He was scheduled to but he had to reschedule for may. Well, have him in may and i just want to make it clear i was not drinking last week. I had recorded the show many weeks ago, back when gary was still going to keep his promise. But then he broke his promise, but he made up for it. We love we love gary. I’m just getting gary in case any of his entourage is listening. We like gary v and he’s coming this week. Discover your brand nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark i mcdowell that’s not an eye there’s no period it’s clark vertical line mcdonnell that’s very dramatic clark vertical line, vertical mcdonald, your brand i’m glad not he’s laughing. She hopefully realizes that i wrote this copy. So i know it’s, not an eye. Your brand goes much deeper than logo in tagline i hope you recognize that what’s the process to discover your brand strategy. And once you’ve found it, how do you manage it? Nadia and i will discuss all that also content marketing scott koegler returns he’s, our regular tech contributor the editor of non-profit technology news what content should you post for consumption? And where should you be putting it? How do you start your content? Marketing scott and i will discuss that between the guests on tony’s take two planned giving is part of your fund-raising team that’s what’s on my block this week, i’ve got some simple ways that planned giving can support the rest of your fund-raising my pleasure now to welcome and introduce nadia christina touma she’s, a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdonnell i guess you know it’s probably supposed to articulate the vertical line. It was an ampersand you’d say clark end, but it’s not supposed to be clark vertical line mcdonnell just clark macdonald that’s where she’s an a brand strategy innovation ist her work is creating and revitalizing brands in our swiftly changing world. She’s on the faculty of the school of visual arts, s via the masters in branding program, where she teaches brand strategy. She has worked with non-profits such as slow food and why i see in the pittsburgh concert society and in college at carnegie mellon university. She had a minor in piano performance, and we’re going to talk a little about that, too. Nadia touma, welcome to the studio. Thanks for having me, tony it’s. A pleasure. Glad to see you laughing already. Very good. Um, co-branding i think there’s a lot of misconceptions about what a brand is. What? What? What is branding? Well, that is a very good question. First one out of the box. Alright. Alright. Complimentary. You could stay the whole hour. With pleasure. Ah, i often get that question. A lot of people don’t quite know what branding is. I have a lot of confusion even within my family and my closest friends there. Not sure exactly what i d’oh. I think the best way to describe branding is to define it as what? It’s not co-branding is not. Ah, brand strategy is not marketing it’s, not advertising its not a logo it’s, not pr. It is actually the foundation. And the strategy is really the backbone of all of those things that it will then effect. So, you know, a brand strategy consists of things like a mission, a vision, reasons for being the dna of what a company and its products stand for you. And then all of those marketing pr efforts are executions off that strategy. All right? And then you have to maintain your strategy once you’ve once you’ve devised it well, not only maintain that’s very important maintain, but also stay relevant and state different. So it requires connection to the world connection to your consumer. You know, the world is not stagnant, and neither should have brand be stagnant. S o you have a very solid foundation, but you have to move with the times as well. Now, how do world renowned brands like apple? You know, nike, how did they create that that aura around them? And you just say apple and people think of steve jobs, and they think of beautiful design and innovation and slightly expensive products. But how did they how did they had to create that well, that’s, really the magic question and that’s, why people like me exist which is to help companies really create that magic, but at a very fundamental level there are couple characteristics that make a brand very strong, one of which is its first of all, that it’s relevant, that it’s relevant to people’s, lives to companies, lives. Another important characteristic is that its distinctive so it has to be relevant. But it also needs to be somewhat unique um, and somewhat special in a way that the delights people there’s also another really wonderful thing that strong brands do, which is they defined categories, and they almost shift culture in a way. So if you think about really strong brands like apple, for instance, you know they’ve really changed the way we interact with the world, with music, with movies, with people, you know, and those very, very strong brands are able to almost do that and shifting culture, which is really cool. All right, so let’s, let’s, bring this to the to the small and midsize non-profit level. You talked about a lot of things in developing the brand strategy, but so let’s let’s. Try to flush this out. How do you how do you start? Toe create your strategy. What? What you want to be? Yeah, and that’s oftentimes the biggest challenges actually understanding. What is it? What is our reason for being? Why do we exist? And that’s challenging? Because a lot of times there might be differing opinions or different objectives within an organization within a midsize non-profit but but every non-profit has a mission statement almost always go to the home page it’s a simple pull down it’s right there in front. They all have a mission and you in a vision. So, isn’t that. Isn’t that the basis or there might even be some the differences of opinion? Despite that? Yeah, i know a lot of times the mission statement it could have been written by, you know, someone who founded it years ago, and it may not be as relevant or the way in which it’s interpreted might not be consistent across people who are making decisions everyday within that organization. Eso when we think about a mission statement it’s, you know, it’s sort of a first level and that needs to be agreed upon, of course, but from there there other components like understanding who were retargeting what’s our consumer, our audience, you know, what exactly do we offer, even from not just a functional standpoint, but an emotional standpoint, even if you’re just a midsize non-profit that’s all very important. S o sometimes mission statements, vision statements are written without those components in mind. And so that’s what needs to be really fleshed out internally, say, a little more about the emotion? Yeah, so you know every organization, whether you know, whether you’re lady gaga or your you know, proctor and gamble, you’re offering functional things, so you’re offering toilet paper or you’re offering entertainment and music, but you’re also offering, and i don’t think lady gaga uses ivory, so probably not right. I don’t think she uses anything anyone else used, but from an emotional standpoint, you also have to deliver something right brands need to make you feel something on dh. So even if your say, you know a local music organization that promotes local talent, there needs to be something emotional that the audience gets from using you. Otherwise you become just purely functional, and a purely functional offering is not a complete brand and we can articulate all the all this i mean, we can pull all this into ah ah, cohesive statement and understanding among all our different constituents are bored are our staff are sea level people, the people who are benefiting from our services, whether they’re students or or the homeless way? Yeah, absolutely. And what’s actually critical when you’re implementing ah, brand vision or a brand strategy is to get buy in from every level of the organization. So everyone who’s doing the accounting? Teo being a spokesperson, teo, you know, being the ceo all need to believe it’s it’s the difference i often tell my students it’s a difference between interacting with a customer service representative it zappos, who clearly believes in the brand to buying something at duane reade and interacting with the checkout person, okay? Or maybe state government, maybe that’s all right, that’s a good example of the other end of the day. Yeah, okay. We’re gonna take a break. We’re going to dive more into detail about how to develop your strategy, what that process is about. So now he has certainly stays with me. And i hope that you do too talking. Alternative radio. Twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service, sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com buy-in durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent got tons of live listener love china so well represented. Young jang kun ming chung ching, shanghai, shenyang, wuhan. I’ve been to wuhan and i’ve been to shanghai. Shi on is not there. I was in shi on to where she on left fans behind and she on i thought. But china chinese ni hao. Very nice to have you with us and seoul, korea and day. John korea. Very nice to have you with us on your haserot here in the u s new york, new york. Welcome, smithtown, new york. Welcome. Will smith times at long island, i think i think it’s long island welcome live listen, love tto all those live listeners and more to come. Okay, nadia touma. We’re talking about the importance of branding here. By the way, when you become a partner in your firm, i want you to tell them you want an ampersand before your name. Okay? Not the verdict. I don’t care what kind of equity they offer you a share in the corporate jet. You want not the vertical line. You want to be end too much, really? The memo percent um okay, let’s, go let’s, get into this process a little. Now all these all these constituents need to be involved. You mention from accountants to board members at sea level. Bonem what do we what do we start this this process with if we want to develop our brand well, there’s, just like they’re possibly dozens of definitions of what brand strategist do there’s also many ways in which a process khun begin. I’ll tell you my personal perspective. I truly i truly believe that partnering with whoever you’re working with is incredibly important. So getting together say, your ah brand strategy agency or you’re working on your own, getting together with that client and really sitting down and understanding what’s the issue what’s at stake what do your objectives try to understand? What’s our goal and together as a team really outline what a success look like. You know, it’s really define what those girls look like and parameters, you know, what’s what can we change what’s off limits? You know what can we not touch from there? I think it’s really important to get the perspectives of a lot of different stakeholders within that. Organization and try to understand is there are other inconsistencies among them in terms of what the mission is, what the vision is. Do they see the company going in different directions? Do they see in a different place in five years? What are the different strengths and weaknesses that various parties see? Understanding even that is an insight is to understand what’s our current situation. You know where the inconsistencies, where the commonalities and from there, we can start to create a common goal. So there’s a lot of conversation, a lot of interviewing focus groups. Is that is that it was that all part of this? Well, focus groups come a little bit later. So once you do wanna interview internally and understand what’s going on within, because the change will have to happen from within. So getting a good read on that is really the first step. Okay on, i did survey listeners before the show on dass cked in the past five years, have you given considerable thought to your brand strategy? A little more than half said yes. About close to sixty percent said yes. And then about fourteen percent said no and about a third said, i’m not sure what brand strategy means i better listen to the show, so i hope those listen, i hope you’re on. I hope they’re either in china, japan or smith down listening, all right, but no more than half have feel that they have given a lot of thought within the past five years. Well, i think in the past five years, there’s been a sea change in the perspective of brand strategy. I’ve seen it absolutely well, i think that brand i mean it’s still a nebulous term that clearly people aren’t quite sure what it means. I think that there’s been quite a shift recently in going going from financial measures on ly in terms of measuring success to trying to build in metrics that measure the quality of your brand as well. I think cmos and ceos are recognizing the importance of having a strong brand in addition to the bottom line. Now, cmo is a very common term for you, but here on the show we have drug in jail on i would hate wade. You have a female ward for for george in jail offenders cmo so that all the listeners know what you’re talking about, chief marketing officer excellent does a lot of non-profits certainly don’t have cme owes a lot of this falls right on the executive director or maybe a communications and marketing staff but might not be a chief marketing officer. All right, so we’ve gathered all this information from all the different constituents, and i think including importantly, people who are benefiting from the work that we do a zay said earlier, whether they’re students or they’re the hungry who you’re feeding the batter to your sheltering them in there, they’re certainly included, we have all this information. Now what? How do we coalesce this what we’re looking for, right? So i think that once we’ve understood what’s going on internally, we want to then turn r r face toe to the outside world and understand who are we affecting? So is that the hungry? Is that students and decide who was it really that were after? And i don’t mean after in a predatory sense, i mean, in terms of who’s, our audience, who are we trying to read? That’s actually an incredibly important part of it to really define that target audience on and i don’t just mean to finding it in terms of demographics, so you hear a lot of terms thrown around, like males eighteen to thirty four or moms with kids or the baby boomers. The reality of it is that each of those groups has shades and shades of different types of people so it’s more important to understand. Are you looking at moms with kids who are into organic food or, you know, are you looking at males eighteen to thirty four who are married and, you know, working full time or are things like that that that add texture to who you’re looking at and then it’s important to understand? Let me ask you when you’re doing that? Do you ever devise hypothetical people? Absolutely had guests? I’ve had two guests in the past. You have talked about that for in terms of marketing strategy. Yeah, about that oh, that’s. Incredibly important. So we call them creating personas on dh it’s. Really? It’s it’s wonderful to do with clients. Because i think one of the pitfalls of working all the time with inman organization is you start to see your audience as a number or, you know, a cell. In an exception, a stereotype of some complete stereotype and it’s. Amazing to see the way in which top level executives will react. Teo very well fleshed out persona and what i mean by persona is outlining the person as if they truly were a person. What do they like to do in their free time? What brands do they use in other categories? That’s incredibly important. What’s their education level. Where did they go to school? Where do they like to vacation? And you really bring that person toe life and they become someone that is relatable. And in that sense, i think you create better solutions, theun just saying, while we need to increase exp i twenty five percent and why by sixteen percent do you give those personas? Name’s? Vivian? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And a lot of work goes into that is, well, really the name? Yeah, sure. We’re okay. All right, all right. So i made you tigress labbate because that’s interesting cause the other guests i said have made the same point sabat so we’re coalescing this invention that we’re going outside. Are we doing interviews with with these potential personas? Were trying to meet people who fit the description of these different personas absolutely, i think that the most important thing to do is to talk to your consumer, and it’s really brings it to life. You, khun do surveys. My personal preference is to go out into the world and really interact with who you’re going to be speaking with on dh that could be done in a variety of ways. So ethnography zehr quite popular, and that means don’t get into that jail again, jack in jail ethnography xero when you go into the audience is natural habitat really so to speak? So if you’re studying, you know the way in which people consume alcohol, you might be going to bars or their homes before they go out. If you’re, you know, studying perhaps skin care, you might go and observe someone shopping for skin care. So you really want teo me? Clearly, it won’t be a pure experience because you’re their jotting down notes and you know, you’re obviously observing, but you do get to see those those nuances that you might you might not get if you’re in a focus group facility. Not to say that those air not incredibly valuable because they are one of the things you get from focused group that you don’t get in other types of qualitative research is that you get social interaction, so you’re watching people react to things, and then maybe another person says something that sparks another thing, and then someone else builds on that and you start to get these incredibly rich insights from whatever stimulus you’re bringing in. Nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdole, which you’ll find on the web at clark with no, no, eat the end. Mcdowell, m, c d o w a l l clark macdonald, dot com what types of questions are you asking these people? Well, that all really depends. It depends on the objectives of what you’re trying to find out. So if you’re if you’re doing just straight consumer package good type research such as skin care, alcohol or you nutrition shake or something of that nature you’re trying to understand really the needs behind it. One of the things that is let’s think let’s, bring it to a non-profit sure you’ve worked with a music and arts group in the past. Yes, i suppose it is. A small arts group. What what? What are we trying to find out from their their their constituents? Eso for example, for this small arts organization that i worked with, they sponsored and showcased local classical musicians in a recital setting. And they were having an issue with their audience. There wasn’t enough of coming to these recitals. So really it’s it’s not just saying, why are people not coming to a recital? That’s sort of just scratching at the surface? What you really want to try to understand or what are those unmet needs that is, is prohibiting them from coming, right? So what are those barriers that miss making people do something else rather than come here? And i think that’s really actually across the board what you want to find out and that’s incredibly challenging because people don’t know what they don’t want. So it’s very hard for them to tell you what they’re looking for, why they chose something else, exactly, or its group or a college why they chose it. Okay, so how do you start to get to this s o that’s? Really? Where the art meets the science it’s really that’s when you have to really sit down and create a solid methodology, and what that means is you really need to thaw. I almost think about what you’re trying to get first and work your way backwards. So if i’m trying to understand, you know what is really driving? Ah, consumer, not to go to our side and go to a football game instead really try to break that down in a way that gets sort of a roundabout way to get to them. You would never ask them. Why are you going to the football game rather than the recital? You’re trying to understand it a deeper level? What is that that makes them feel fulfilled? What is it that makes them feel happy with their free time? And then you have to do a lot of the back work to fill in those gaps. This is very esoteric. It’s. We call them leaps there you really have? Tio i almost asked around the question and look at that negative space in a way, and then make those connections to understand what’s missing. Okay, so all right, so now you’ve got your internal constituents, your external constituents. You’ve made some leaps. In judgment, there must be some kind of testing of what of the leaps that you’ve made, and the the early conclusion that you’re starting to draw? Absolutely. And this is when you bring it all together. So as you said, we spoke internally. We understood what was going there. We understand what’s going on in the outside world. And then now you need to bring it together and say, okay, what makes sense here if we have x and y parameters internally and this is what success looks like? And then this is the opportunity that we’re seeing in the outside world. How do we marry the two? How do we make a solution that makes sense given constraints, opportunities, but the organization and then what we see, as you know that that really juicy white space in the outside trying to bridge this gap you are between opportunity and on reality. Exactly. Okay, and so a lot of times, what will happen is you might have you might find these incredibly lofty, wonderful opportunities out in the world. And then what ends up happening is you do have to bring them down to earth based on what’s, actually. Possible on then. So there’s a process of testing on then what? What’s the end result of all this that’s a great question. Another one? Yeah, two out of twenty five. So it can take the shape of any number of things so it might end up being just a brief, you know, a word documentary, power point dahna document or it could be something that’s a little bit more of emmanuel, but essentially, what you’re giving is a set of guidelines. So, you know, you you should recount the journey that you’ve taken with the client so they can see how do we get here? You know, what does that look like? And then once you’ve told that story, you outlined things like, ok, what is our positioning mission vision statement? What does it look like when we apply that to our pr? What does that look like when we apply that to our visual identity? How do we talk about ourselves? All of these sorts of sort of guidelines to help you talk about that strategy that you’ve created? How do we talk about ourselves in terms of actual words and maybe stories that we tell or or things like that? Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s, all those executions i talked about at the beginning of our conversation. You know, what is advertising look like? What is marketing look like? Not from a here is a an ad, but thank you. Here are here’s a type of language you should be using here. The types of colors you should be using. The tone, the personality, all of these things that affect the way someone might interpret your brand. How do you feel that, uh, musical performance overlaps with with the work that you’re doing? How does that inform your work? Well, i would say that generally speaking toe work and brand, you just have to be curious. Keep your eyes open, be interested in a lot of different things because you have to make a lot of esoteric connections all the time. So music is just one of those other things that sort of opens your eyes and ears and fingers and a very different way exactly. And share what? What it is that you love about the work that doings. Clearly, you enjoy it very much. Very passionate about it. What? What is it that moves you? About what you’re doing, you know it, it’s it’s incredibly interesting because you are studying people and you’re studying societies and how people feel about things and make decisions, you know, ultimately, companies really are creating products and services for a changing world, and that means that you have to study the world and study interactions and connection and what you love about all that it’s incredibly interesting to be a part of and does the nature of the business is you’re always working on a different type of industry and a different type of consumer. So you’re always learning, you know, deeply about a lot of different types of things, thanks very much for being a guest, not here. Thank you for having me. Pleasure. Nadia touma is a brand innovation strategist with clark mcdowell at clark mcdowell dot com right now we take a break, and when we come back tony’s take two about plant e-giving as part of your fund-raising team. And then scott koegler returns and he and i are going to talk about content marketing. Stay with me. You couldn’t do anything to getting dink dink dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get him! Nothing. Good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back time for tony’s take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is planned e-giving is part of your fund-raising team i’ve got there five strategies for using planned giving to help other parts of your fund-raising there’s no reason that plan giving should be silo or blackbox. It should be supporting all your different fund-raising methods on you will fund, for instance, when you’re meeting a planned e-giving prospect, certainly you want to know ahead of time whether they participate in the annual fund and if they have been giving annually, you want to thank them and if it’s appropriate asked them for an increased gift to the annual fund if they’re not participating annually. It’s appropriate to ask why? Maybe there’s objections that you can help to overcome and and find a new annual donor that’s one that’s one way of helping the annual fund corporate support, maybe corporate sponsorship if you know in advance or you learn in the meeting, that person works for a company asking about the possibility of corporate sponsorship. Not that they would be the decision maker, but maybe they’ll make the introduction to who the decision maker is and that entree is always valuable now than being strictly a cold call to that office. So there are lots of ways that plan giving khun support other types of fund-raising i’ve got more ideas on my block. The post is called planned e-giving is part of your fund-raising team and that’s at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twenty ninth of march, the thirteenth show of the year. Where did march go before we bring scott on? I want to send more live listener love we’ve got guangzhou, china and nokia, finland and porta vallarta, mexico. Now, if i can figure out if we can identify those cities, how come it’s united kingdom? Why is that? We don’t even know the country and uk? Yeah, you well show you irish english, we don’t know what i’m going to say you’re you’re welsh because that’s the least likely so welcome from wales and if you’re not in wales, why is your what is your identity, your location being masked? We don’t want your street address, but certainly country would be nice, scott koegler welcome, i’m doing terrific, scott koegler we know him he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it and p tech news, dot com he’s, our regular tech contributor, and this month we’re talking about content marketing what do we mean? Marketing? Yeah, what do we mean by this? You know, i actually for a different name for that, i call it authority marketing because it’s really, you know, you’re trying to, uh, trying to put for information about things that you know about your so you’re asserting your authority and you’re letting the people that you talk to, hopefully that read, whatever it is you’re doing, i know that you are authoritative on then the short part of that is that you’re not really selling, although, you know, being an authority and something means that hopefully people will come to you when they need answers and when they need services and products, i see that that’s what we’re talking about, okay, authority marking is a little more more descriptive and and what would a, uh, what types of things would non-profit want to be demonstrating authority in? Well, you know, the short answer there is the things that the non-profit is about so the cause the methodologies they’re using again any anything that they that they know about so that’s kind of across the board for non-profits and also for-profit type organizations. But non-profits can talk about just all the things that they do. So it’s, you know, it’s putting forth your message in a non marketing kind of away. Okay, so you and i have talked in the past about surveying people to find out what their interests are. There might be value in doing that to find out what about your work or related to your work interests them? Sure, sure. You know, you always want to get feedback from your constituents. And sometimes you get feedback from from a survey. That’s that’s a very good way to go. You know that your percentage of respondents varies all over the place. You know, i’ve had i’ve had anywhere from one percent. Twenty percent response rate course, twenty percent is great. But it’s it’s tough to achieve. Yeah, has to be something very, very interesting to them. And you might heat, you know, so that maybe a second or third generation of your of your survey, you know, kind of homes in on those issues now, but you know, another way to get feedback on what’s interesting is to get feedback on as comments on articles that you post in a block and those you generally get significantly less percentage, but those are typically more insightful. They’re more direct, you know, you know that they’re interested in that particular topic because, well, they read the article on they’re responding to it. So it’s very good way to get get responses. Now you have an article at n p tech news dot com, which says that only we have a number of articles, of course, a couple you do, but this one specifically says that sixty nine percent of non-profits are not blogging. Yeah isn’t in that stunning in this age of every you know, every schoolkid has a blogger and, you know, uh, it’s tough to imagine that, you know, almost, uh, almost three quarters, certainly two thirds of non-profits are not putting out a block, so, you know, i won’t say shame on them, but shame on well and our listeners are consistent with that. One of the poll questions i ask before the show is is your non-profit blogging at least. Twice a month that’s not even very common, but i made it a low threshold twice a month and seventy one percent said no interest. Only fourteen percent said yes, the other fourteen percent they didn’t know. So this is very consistent, actually with with what your article is just within a couple of points dahna way believe that the block is a good place for all this content. How do you do get started with your block? If you’re in that sixty nine or seventy one percent is not doing it. I will say that it’s not surprising that the number is so high because even though the technology for putting together a blogger is really easy and really available and even free and i’ll talk about the specifics in just seconds, the time to do the blog’s is a very scarce commodity. You no way talk about operations and and events and all the things that have to go into a non-profit and there are a couple of things that are critical to writing a block one is the time to write the second thing is the ability to write, you know, cogent phrases and just, you know makes things that are right, things that are interesting on getting somebody to actually be consistent. So those three things are, you know, probably the killer’s toe actually producing a block on a consistent basis. So that’s one thing that’s this very difficult, overcome and that’s why a lot of organizations or maybe something not as many as we might think, actually hyre out there blogging, and they get professional writers or managers to produce content for them and manage the the website, the block, whatever it’s called and send for them, you could try soliciting content from your constituents could, whether they’re the people benefiting from your work. Or maybe if you’re a bigger organization, maybe some of your employees can contribute. I don’t have to be writing right could be video absolutely there’s all kinds of different blogging tools now one of them and we’ll just kind a segway into this. Yeah, you know what? We talked earlier about pinterest that was a couple months ago on dh pinterest, you know, i mean it’s really a blocking platform, but it is a way to put out dahna typically images or videos of of information that’s of interest to the organization and to the constituents. Another one that you well, let’s, step on pinterest, pinterest is not all that time consuming. Because you can be. You can upload your own content, but you can also be out on the web. You find something that’s interesting, relevant to your work. You you just pin it to a board using the earl. Great it’s it’s. Very quick and easy. The good thing about it is that it it keeps it can keep a consistent exposure. Uh, that if there’s a negative, i would say that it’s it really is not generally original content. It’s something that you you found and shared, right? Right. But it’s it’s bad, but it’s not really blogging, right? No. Right. But it’s jemaine to your work. And could be interesting to your constituents who are interested in the work that you do, right. And what you just said there is, you know, being interesting to constituents. That’s really the key to any of these you’re you’re content curator of of content, and you become an authority, hopefully within your within your sphere, right? I think, you know, tend to touch on that authority issue if you’re if you’re pinning some content that’s not your own, uh, that maybe, you know, kind of the reverse of becoming the authority. Okay, you’re a curator and that’s a good thing. So you’re bringing things of interest, but you haven’t really added to the authorities factor. So somebody who’s actually interested in what you pinned is just going to click on that pin and jump to the site. That weird originated, so i’d be careful of their, you know, but it is a place to get exposure. All right? Let’s, talk about the block you had. You have some suggestions about getting started with blogging? Yeah. One of them you talked about was was tumbler and tumbler is, i guess, it’s a version of interest and that it’s, highly visual. Um, but you actually can post content there. You can also curate it and post. So on it’s a free it’s, a free resource. You could just create a account you can upload pictures of your events. You can upload text about whatever it is that you’re doing. So so that’s. Ah, relatively easy way to get in. It’s, it’s, inexpensive and fur and supposes cheap on dh free i think? Yeah. Okay. And that’s t u m b l r write the word tumbler without the okay. Okay, so, yeah, i would suggest that maybe uneasy. Wait for an organisation to get in where there really isn’t any there’s. No overhead. It’s, quick and easy, todo. Now, wordpress is very popular, but that’s that’s maura, traditional type written blogged, right. Uh, correct. Right. Word press is probably the white, most rightly used blogging platform, although there are plenty of others but that that could be for you can actually do a you can set up your own wordpress block account by going tio it’s. Um, we’re press dot com, actually. And you could get the free option and start with that. And so you can set that up and you can actually just start to write articles. You can write the articles right within wordpress and just click save and it’s published so it’s very, very simple todo right there there are elaborate wordpress blog’s but you don’t have to shoot me not to start. You certainly shouldn’t start there. You start seeing i would say start with just the three one and go from there add content had pictures. If you have videos, you could do, those two do. Although the free site has restrictions on, you know how much you can actually upload and save to the site. Okay, we’re going to take a break, and when we come back, we’ll talk a little about maybe creating cem video, that’s, that’s, simple to do, because that could be compelling authority marketing. Now i’ve had to change. The name of the segment accommodates got from content marketing now already marketing that’s. Ok, i’m flexible, you flexible, dammit! All right, we could take a break. You stay with us, scott will, and i hope you do, too. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. 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All right, scott koegler let’s, talk a little about video because video, you know, you and i have talked about this before, it doesn’t have to be high production phones that take shoot video are so common you could arm your employees or your other constituents with the phone, maybe at an event or maybe just on their own. This could be good authority, content authority, marketing, absolutely. And it’s uh, sometimes actually, most of the time, it turns out to be very current because the videos, as you just mentioned a lot of time, shot with their with their cellular cell phones with their smartphones, and we’re even just any kind of digital camera now takes video. Uh, of course, the smartphones. You, khun, take the video posted almost live on, you know, the face of people like to see themselves and people that they know so particularly had events. I saw one organization that recently kind of they turned around the old thing about putting the the, you know, the throwaway camera on the table? Yeah. And they put a card on the table that says, use your cell phone, uh, shoot a video and uploaded here, and they got i think they were just overwhelmed. They think they’ve got a couple of hundred up loads. So, you know, that’s good and bad, right? How do you use and select the ones that you wanted? But it did. It proved the point that it was a very popular option and something that people would engage with immediately. So just kind of take that idea further. What do you do with that? Um, you can either download those those videos and create a kind of a montage using your own software, or you don’t have to do that. You can actually use tools within youtube to, uh to mash up your videos on create, you know, kind of an overview doesn’t have to be ah long or complex or even, you know, two super high quality just paste a bunch of pieces together, right? You to diligently, of course, youtube has editing editing tools right now. There’s a sight that we know one listener maria simple likes because we know maria because she’s, a regular contributor and you talked about this site almost a year ago on a moto for video. Exactly an emoto is great. Um and, uh, i mean, what it does is it allows you to use both video and still images and create a you know, we’ll call it a video, and it actually is a video. Even if you have images there, uh, there’s basically photos, and it does very complex transitions. You can overlay text on it. You can overlay background music on becomes very engaging. So, you know, in a matter of probably ten minutes, you can produce one of these things. Yeah. Maria maria has been using it for a non-profit that she volunteers with, but she heard about it from you first. And like i said now, it’s been close to a year she’s using it all right? And we’re just, you know, a free tool that’s simple to use and, you know, sort of quick and dirty video that can be can be moving or informative, right, exactly an authoritative and that, again, just the good kind of go back to that word that’s really, what we’re trying to do here is to increase the believability that you’re just you’re not just somebody out there trying to raise a few bucks for, for who knows what you know, but you are actually an organization. You have a purpose, you know what you’re talking about, and it gives the people that you’re communicating with something teo grab onto teo to associate with and maybe even to, you know, get it personally and personal involvement with well, there you go, that’s that’s what this is all that we were trying to engage, we’re trying to have a connection, a dialogue so that you become affiliated with the work well aware of the work and then hopefully become affiliated with the organization, maybe as a volunteer, maybe as a donor, maybe just as a spokesperson and an advocate on the web right? Absolutely. And you know right back to the blogging section. And you mentioned, you know, get some of your constituents, your volunteers, whatever to to contribute content. If you have a relatively large organisation, you have a much better chance of getting, you know, five or ten individuals who are able to contribute something. If you could get them each to contribute something every two months, even you’d have a you have something to become consistent with. Consistency is one of those things that really counts. Okay, on dh there’s, your there’s, your sort of army of advocates and and volunteers. I mean, you may never make that. You may never meet the people, but if they’re contributing content once in a while, they’re supporting your work. Exactly. Exactly. We did have a correction for you, scott. The forward press sight is its wordpress dot or ge. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, i got sign up. Dot wordpress, dot com uh, so if you want to go directly to the sign up, but you’re right, wordpress dot or ge is where you go first. I am sorry. Okay? That’s okay. Okay. No, no, no. All right, but sign up. Dot wordpress dot com. But if you want to go directly toward press and learn more about it, that would be wordpress dot org’s. Okay, now you what? You’re trying to be an authority buy-in and i really messed up well, but i want to help you. It’s xero there only nine thousand dollars will do good. Only nine thousand people listening. Well, no. Nobody listens to this show. So it’s not gonna matter. It doesn’t matter what you say. Any closing thoughts you want to leave people with in their authority? Marketing? Um, i would say it’s it’s something that really people are hungry for, even though there’s plenty to read on the web. Uh, you know, the old thing, you know, you can’t publish anything. It is untrue. It’s untrue. On the web, right? Yeah, of course. But i would say just along with that, if you if you plan to go into this one of your main goals, should be to be consistent and to do it on an ongoing basis, you know, putting up one post every three months just is not really gonna do anything. It’s. Probably worse than doing nothing. Scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news at n p tech news. Dot com and scott remind us what your twitter ideas it’s xero scott koegler course spelling koegler is not easy. So it’s seo t k o e g l e r all right, scott, thank you very much, but with this, we’ll have you back next month. Thanks doing my pleasure. Thank you. More live listener love, new york, new york, memphis, tennessee and richardson, texas live love to all of you hope you’ll be with me next week when we’ll be talking about talk between the generations. Phyllis weiss haserot is a consultant in cross generational communication. Ines boomer boss in a general i worker gen x boss and a boomer worker how about a general i fundraiser and a boomer or boomer plus donor? 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We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over intellect. No more it’s time. Join me, larry shop a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. 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134: IRS Sale In Aisle 403(b) & Compensation Clarity – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Evan Giller, partner at Giller & Calhoun

Gene Takagi & Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent you know me, i’m your aptly named host it’s friday, march twenty second i very much hope that you were with me last week don’t let me hear that you missed gary vaynerchuk. Gary shared insights and inspiration from his body of work and his book the thank you economy and amy sample ward and i talked about kindness, criticism and on honest online conversations this week i rs sale in aisle four o three b evan giller, founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun, explains the i r s is fifty percent off the penalty sale for four o three b retirement plans that are not in compliance. Many plans are not up to code, and this is the year to fix those problems. We’ll talk about the common mistakes and what to do. Also compensation clarity a regular legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group answer these questions how do you determine what’s reasonable compensation for executives? What happens if comp is excessive? What’s the automatic penalty that kicks in if you don’t disclose benefits plus, we’re going to do aboard role play, and we’ll see who chairs that meeting. This is from the non-profit radio vintage collection last october was a very good month between the guest today on tony’s take to my podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy that i do monthly fund-raising fundamentals, some details about that, my pleasure now to welcome evan giller he’s, a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun he’s worked on employee benefit plan issues, including retirement and executive compensation plans for over twenty years. He has extensive experience in plan, design and compliance and is a contributing author to the four o three b answer book. I’m very glad that his expertise bring us two brings him to the studio. Evan giller, welcome well, thankyou, tony, and very happy to be here. Pleasure. We’re all our lawyers, all lawyers and compliance issues today, but i’m going to keep you all of you on the straight, narrow, um, let’s start very basic so that we know that everybody i can figure out where they have a four o three b or they don’t. What is a four o three? B plan k so four o three b plan is a retirement plan that is only available to tax exempt organizations, not for-profit organizations or teo governmental organizations that are that are educational organizations like k through twelve public schools and state local universities and colleges. Okay, so the the reason that four o three b is in the code is because those types of organizations were deemed to need a very simple, fairly cheap way of providing retirement benefits to their employees. Now a tax exempt a charity could have, and we’re our audiences. The five oh one. See threes, no small and midsize charities. They could have some other kind of retirement plan for their employees. That that’s. Exactly correct. Until recently. Well, when i said recently, probably about the last twenty years, these types of organizations could not have a four. Oh, one k, but that’s not true anymore. They can have a four. Oh, one k as well or what’s known as a qualified for a one a plan. And i will keep the jargon to a minimum. A surgeon general has i know. Okay, is the rule but the ah that’s. A plan that although it’s under different section of the code looks kind of the same. It allows the employer to put in money on behalf of the employees accumulate amount that they could get when they when they were tired. Okay, so we have the former one case before oh, for a one. A cz. But we’re talking today about the four. Oh, three bees. Okay, what is the problem with some? I think maybe lots ofthe four o three b retirement plans. Right. So if i can i give you a little history here, please. On dh. We could go back far into the depths of the sun. Not too far from the nine hundred right? Stick by nineteen. Yes. Yes. But these plans were set up originally because it was perceived that college college professors could not retired because they don’t have enough teo enough money to retire on. And so these plans were set up, much like individual plans. Sort of like ira’s today. Individual annuity contracts were issued to the participants in the plans to the college professors. Ultimately, they were expanded to cover all five. Twenty three’s and these, you know, governmental educational organizations. And they were very lightly regulated for many years. And i should say that there are really two important regulators were talking about. As you said, we’re talking about the irs. We’re also talking about the department of labor and department labor also regulates these plans. And in the last since since nineteen, eighty six and on both of these organizations have decided that the four three v world was too big, too much like the wild west, but too big and needed to be increasingly regulated. Okay, so the plans became popular so popular that regulators got concerned about them. That’s, right? They became large, you know, with large for large tax exempt have giant plans on dso. The regulators did get concerned about them and wanted to make sure that they were being operated properly. Okay, because the ultimate concern is that we want to have money for the retirees that are participating in these plans. Exactly. And the other concern is that the three irises also two rules thes rules. Are they so the quid pro quo for the tax benefit that you get out of these plants? And the irs wanted to make sure that these rules were being followed. Properly. Okay, so rules are not being followed, and we have ah, we’ll get to this. But we have ah, we have a period where you can save some money on penalties for not following the rules. But what? What’s? The main problem is the, er, the plan’s. Right? So, okay, that’s, you and i introduce it, but you talk us through it. So the overarching issue here is that until two thousand nine, under the under the irs is rules. These plans weren’t required to have a document, a written plan that they had to follow, and a lot of these plans had they didn’t not have anything. But they had very sketchy documents because actually on the department of labor side, you were supposed to have a document as well. But nobody was looking too closely at it. And this is a document that it describes how your plan is goingto operate, right? So the document is you very often very detailed and it’s exactly how the planets to us to operate and also contains all the iris requirements. So in two thousand nine, thie iris the i recited set a deadline that by two thousand, by january first, two thousand nine every four three b plan with very narrow exceptions had to have this written document. This is the increased regulation that you were talking about it we’ll start to see. Okay, right. You had that january deadline, right? January two thousand nine deadline, right? And actually, in december of two thousand eight, justice everyone was scrambling to complete this deadline. The iris actually given extension to the entity. That’s. Nice. So it was a busy time for you when you got then you got eleven months. Reprieve. It was a fantastically exciting moment. Yeah, okay. Yeah, well, you were able to enjoy your holiday. It was in two thousand eight, although it wasn’t looking like you were going to exactly. Okay, so did they wait until december thirty first? They know one thousand deo, but was close. It was it was in the first week in december. It wass e-giving months. They like to suspense. Yeah. Yeah. So the but that deadline the end of two thousand nine came and went and held. And so all four o three b plants again. There are some very narrow exceptions. Had to have this written document adopted a formally by the organization by december thirty first, two thousand nine if you didn’t do that, you’re out of compliance. Your plan theoretically, the plan could be deemed to be failed failed very bad result. A failed plan means that all the money in it all of the contracts in that plan will be taxable. The contracts are all the all your employees that’s, right? Ok, that’s, right? So the so the danger of being out of compliance is what what’s what’s your employees going to suffer, they’re going to have a very bad tax consequence, and they go and they’re going to look to you as the employer, and they’re going to say, why did this happen? So the irs doesn’t like to invoke this nuclear penalty on plans very much disqualifying the disqualifying, pluck us, right? And so for a number of years, they have worked on a program that allows plans, and not just for three plants, but all kinds of retirement plans to correct errors so they don’t get disqualified. All right, so you were supposed to have been been had your plan document by december of two thousand nine, but since then they’ve been working. Tio get people into compliance because they know there are a lot that that didn’t make that deadline. That’s, right? Ok. And so they have said that the to the extent that you have failed to adopt, if you that you failed to adopt your plan on time by that deadline now att the end of last year they came out with a program the irs did. That said you khun submit ah, a plan document to the irs. Now pay a penalty and you will be absolved of having failed to meet the original deadline. Yes, you’re absolved. You brought into the fold. You’ll come to the flock, we will absolve you, but you have to pay a penalty. You are deemed to have to be in compliance. We have to pay a penalty. Okay. Okay. And that gets us to the fifty percent off no sale. So in two thousand and thirteen, if you have that one mistake and you could have other mistakes. But if you that one mistake that you veiled the plan document failed to adopt the plan document of time and you go in through this program, the irs is cutting the penalties in half for the course of the year. There’s. Your fifty percent off sale. It’s a sale. Okay, wei have just about a minute or so before before we take a little break. What? What needs to be? Well, first of all, you have to have your document, and then it has to be the documents to be correct. Is that right? Well, the actually when you go through this program, the irs is not going to give you an opinion as to whether the documents correct that’s. Another disney that’s. Another the process that we can talk about. You hear the irs just wants to see you have your organization has formally adopted the document. Okay, okay, all right. Why don’t we take that break? And when we come back, evan giller stays with me. He’s, a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun. We’re talking about the irs sale in aisle four o three b. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance home? I’m rika keck, holistic nutrition and wanda’s consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com durney welcome back, i wish i could send live listener love, but we are pre recorded its a few weeks before march twenty seconds. I can’t send live listener love, but you know that we do love our live listeners. Evan, you and i are talking about i’m goingto introduce something to save you from jargon jail because you probably wouldn’t set it this way. I like to i like, i like this the v c p for e p c r s is now we’re talking about the v c p for epi crs way r and i’m glad i didn’t say that you wouldn’t have because your prison well, i mean, sorry, practicing attorney or not, you know, jargon jail is open for you and would have had quite an impact when the board of bar examiner’s or the new york state bar association found out about your felony jargon jail. So i’m doing it v c p for epc rs what does that mean? Okay, so those air to acronyms that that describe the this correction program that we’re talking about s o a p c r s is the is the acronym for the overarching program the employees plan compliance resolution system. Thank you. S oh, every wrote that down, but known affectionately as cpc arrest everybody. And v c p is the one of the components of it voluntary correction program and that’s important that that one, though, is important too. Spend a little time what those words mean because it means that you’re turning yourself into the irs. You have found an error, and you’re turning yourself into the irs to correct that error for a reduced amount of a fee. But it’ll be lower than if they caught you. Right? Fifty percent lower, you know, know that something else is fifty percent. Is the sale on the v c p fee for this year? For that? For that non non compliance ever that we talked about? Okay, but in general document, right, but forgetting about this year forgetting with percent off if the irs catches you in violation, it’s going to cost you more than if you turn yourself in now. Really? That’s the basic theory. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Um all right. So we know that the dangers if you’re if you haven’t adopted your plan document and there and i realize there are other things that could be wrong with your four three beer. We’re gonna have time to talk about those two. You have top five, evans top five, but so far now we’re just talking about not having adopted your plan document by the two thousand nine deadline. Um, your employees will face taxation. You’ll be embarrassed. Your planned disqualified there’s penalties for that? Of course, if the irs finds it. Okay, so what do we do now? If we we haven’t adopted our plan document. How do we enter this thiss rehabilitation program? So the irs has come out with a kit, actually, a compliance kit on blast. Three weeks or so. That takes you through all of the steps that you need to follow in order to get into this program and submit and get. Okay. And this is your doing. This is an outpatient, right? You’re not inpatient rehabilitation, right? That it’s? Yeah, that you basically are it’s all by the male, you know, you send in a document, sent it. But there are a bunch of forms that you that you need to fill out on dh sometimes, you know, you might find that you there kind. Of complicated there, an irs speak and you may want a little help but basically it’s a set of forms that you sent in with your document on proof that your plan has been adopted. Okay, now, what needs to be in this document, this plant? What is in what the parts yet so for three b document has to contain, at the very least, all of the requirements in that code section for four o three b flat. So what does that include that includes limitations on contributions that the irs provide requires? In other words, the irs says you can’t put in a zillion dollars for some rich. I mean, you the employee the employer can play okay. Limits on contributions. Ok? And those of of your listeners who are friendly with four three plans no, actually, one of the one of the most valuable and appealing aspects of it. His salary reduction contributions by employees where you put in money on a salary on it before tax basis into the plan. Just like four. Oh, one k plan and their limits on that as well. And those very strict limits on how much, how much input in direct, which in two thousand thirteen and seventeen thousand five hundred dollars okay, there are requirements that everybody in the organization has an opportunity to make those contributions on it before tax basis it’s called, and i know i’m sorry, i may be skinning a songs you define your jargon, i maybe yes, i’m you’re just skirting just but you won’t, right? You won’t be entered. So it’s called the universal availability rule, which means that, as sort of a zit says sounds that everybody in the organization with again narrow exceptions has to be allowed to make these contributions on it before tax basis. You can’t, they can choose. So this is who you invite to participate in your for three d plan, right? And you have to let them know that they’ve got that opportunity. You can’t keep it a secret on, believe it or not, i’ve seen some cases where they just the employer hasn’t told employees that they’re able to do that. Okay, so there’s that there’s their requirements for taking money out of the plan. They’re called minimum distribution requirements. When you get to be aged seventy and a half, you have to take out. A certain amount, because the iris really doesn’t want you dying with that money to pass it on to the next generation, same age at which you have to start your mandatory required distribution for ira that’s. Exactly right, it’s the same rule. Okay, it seems okay, there are there are other types of what it called nondiscrimination rules. You can’t give a lot of money to the top management a t the on give a lot less money to the rank and file give way give i’m sorry. I mean, make contributions to the plan at a higher level to the top management versus the rank and file. Okay, so they’re not discrimination. Discrimination on exactly can’t discriminate in favor of highly compensated people. Okay, so because this sounds like a very interesting. Now you draft these documents i’m way d’oh, d’oh! It’s good that there are people who enjoy the details of this it’s interesting to me, but i don’t have to write them so but what has to be in there is interesting. What? What? What are the little pieces? Should be so one of the things and this sort of bleeds over into you know things. That can go wrong. I mean, one of the ways these one of the things that you want to put in this document is let let’s say your plan says, were we the employees? They actually the employer i was going to make contributions on behalf of employees of five percent of compensation? That’s a typical plan or ten percent of compensation? You need to define compensation very, very carefully, it’s an area where there are a lot of errors, so some some places don’t want to include let’s say, bonuses some employers don’t want include bonuses some don’t want include overtime in the school world. They don’t want to pay perhaps coaches who get extra money for for coaching. So there is a very easy it’s, very easy to make an error in the way you write out your compensation definition, and then your plan is wrong you’re you’re making contributions on the wrong definition of company, okay? And as you said earlier, the irs is not passing on the correctness or the adequacy of your plan document under this under this correction plan under this period that we have, they’re just making sure that you have a plan. Adopted that’s, right? That under this very narrow piece that we’re talking about now, if you find other errors, let’s say you have the wrong definition of compensation, for instance, and you’ve discovered this. You can go in now, you can go in too. V c p okay, and you can say, hey, we found a mistake. We want to correct it in the correction programme for voluntary correction program under e p c r s and we we don’t, you know, we know we’ve made a mistake, we want to fix it and we’re going to fix it, and then you pay a fee on dh you tell the iris this is how we’re going to fix it now maybe you fix it by giving some people some additional money because you’re definitely comp it definition of compensation said that that you actually should have put in more money, for your definition was too low. There’s added compensation, which means added contribution by the employer correct, right? But now the fee that you paid this is not eligible for the fifty percent off correct only for adopting your plan that’s, right by well, failing to adopt the plan and correcting it. Failing to adopted on time, which was december thirty first, two thousand. Thie only place where you got that little sale. Okay, right? Let’s. See, how long does this does? V c p for the for the plan. Adoption correction. How long does that last? Is it just this year, or do we know? Well, dcp will be indefinite. Okay, cp, that fifty percent is just this year, but they but the process of going into v c p that’s an indefinite program that will be open for a long time. And and actually, there are other programs that the irs they’re going to know that it has said that they’re going to introduce that will work with the cp that will affect forthe brovey plans that this basically this area is evolving. Okay, okay. What is this? You get fifty percent off the penalty. What is the penalty based on how much is it? The penalty is based on the size of the number of employees that you have in the plan. So there’s a there’s a schedule? Um, and it starts at the very low end. It’s? About seven hundred fifty dollars, for really small plans. The penalty penalty. That’s the file gods called the filing fee. They could go into v c p but the penalty and it goes all. The way up to about twenty five thousand dollars if you’ve got a giant plan of ten thousand employees or more. Okay, so it’s based on the number of employees in your plan, is how much you’ll pay for filing fee euphemistically a filing fee, but you’ll get half off that if you’re if you’re adopting your plan newly in two thousand thirteen. Thirty right? If he’s missed the deadline and and this and you do that this year, okay? And that’s, your only issue, you know, if you’re going in with two issues, you know or three issues he found what? Look, i made a couple of other mistakes then that’s fulfill rate, but oh, you can’t piggyback you can’t pick you. You can slide in getting the plan adoption and then add a couple and quietly you’ve got a lot of other errors in quietly, you know? You know, tony have to wake up pretty early in morning to fool the irs. What? You okay? So suppose you adopt your plan, get the fifty percent off on that. And then later on, two months later or two weeks later, then you found other errors in your plan. You could do that, but actually it’s no point, because because the way the cp works and this is a good thing, you don’t pay anymore. If you’ve got one error with exception of this half off thing, you don’t pay anymore if you’ve got one hour or twelve hours, so you may as well just get him all fixed. Oh, so you’ll still get the fifty percent off on the plan. Adoption? Well, the penalty, but you’ll pay full freight on the other. Well, except that what will come out to is what if let’s say, if you go in, you failed to adopt and you’ve got two of the mistakes you’re just trying to game the system. You are, you are. But i guess they think the irs is a step ahead, right? It’s kind of embarrassing teo to sort of sum it up. The only way you get the fifty percent office is if you go in without one mistake that you failed to adopt the plan on time. That one mistake, that one was that the only way you get fifty percent off he’s going with two mistakes, you don’t have to pay the right, but what? Happens if you come in later with the second most? Well, then you’re paying one and a half times, right? You paying the fifty percent and then you’re paying a full fee. So why would you do that? You follow him saying so in other words, the if you if you buy for kate at the way you’re suggesting, then you’re paying fifty percent now and then you’re paying one hundred percent later. If you do both together now, you’re only paying on the feast get the penalty schedule is the same for the different. Oh, i thought maybe they were different now exgagement for different types of errors. No. Same. Okay, so okay. They thought of that. Okay. Um evan gillers, a founding member of the law firm of giller. G i l l e r and calhoun c l h o u n you’ll find them at giller calhoun dot com. Sounds like you should be out in the wild west. I don’t know oklahoma or wyoming. Just that. Calhoun. Well, you know, calhoun happens to be based in denver, so you’re not that far off. Really? Yeah. So this is you have two offices in new york. And denver okay, let’s spend time talking about some of the other errors that that maybe in your plan, you have top five and i think we’ve alluded to some of them, but we’ll make them make them explicit. What are let’s, let’s? Just get started. What what’s? The most common error that you see in in four three b plan. So you know, the most common error that we see again without without getting too deep into the weeds on that? Don’t worry, i’ll stop. You will stop, right? Okay, i’ll get lost, and then i won’t let you lose others. I said earlier that there are two regulators. One is the irs. One is the department of labor and department of labor. Is those those people who are at all involved retirement plans? We’ll know the dreaded a risa word. Arisa is the statute that governs were governed in play that you are, say, e r i s retirement income security act. Very excellent. Okay, okay, so the actual the most common error that we find actually isn’t a risa era and not an internal revenue code error and it’s worth mentioning because it’s a common error and it’s a serious error, okay? And that is when if you have a plan that allows employees to put money in on us on an elective deferral of salary reduction basis before tax basis like we were talking about before you have an obligation to send that money to the insurance company or the mutual fund for using mutual funds very quickly. You can’t sit on that money and let it sit in your bank account and say, you know, i’ll get to it in a couple of weeks. Really, even a couple weeks is not is too long. Yes, a couple of weeks, it will almost always be too long. Yeah, and in this day and age of automatic peril zsystems the department of labor thinks that two weeks is almost you could almost never justify. Okay, so what happens is that people get a little careless sometimes, and maybe the payroll person goes on vacation or they’re just the processes aren’t aren’t in place and the money sits there, and the and the department of labor thinks that’s a bad violation. They want that money going in quickly, because when the money doesn’t go on quickly, it doesn’t. It doesn’t experience investment return it’s sitting in your bank account in your theoretically getting interest on it, a zen employer. So the deal doesn’t like that. You need to be very vigilant about getting that money to your insurance company of mutual fund. What if we’re talking about the united states department of labor? We are right where we are. What if just, you know, like you mentioned your payroll person goes on vacation one time you were you were slow because the payroll person was on vacation and when he or she came back, they’d caught the mistake. But it’s been it’s been the two week vacation because they went, you know, they went exotic, maybe south asia or something took two full weeks vacation. Now they’re back. They realize the mistake, it’s only one time is this. Is this a big deal? Well, you know, you actually it’s a great question for a couple of levels. One is we really didn’t. We didn’t talk about this. I mean, there is a we talked a lot about filing with the irs and the fee and through the vc paid. In fact, when you have small violations on the ira side there’s something called self correction where you don’t have to file violations that fit within their their self correction program. Okay, khun, just be fixed without filing and the it means you don’t have to go and you don’t need to their approval. You don’t need to pay them anything. You just fix him and and i and that’s to a certain extent true with the department of labor to in that case, i would not call it a big deal. But i would say that if you found it, you should fix sit fix. It basically means giving the interest that the participants lost in the period of time that the person was on vacation. That two weeks it’s gonna be a tiny amount of money to weeks of interest on one one contribution you gotta give. Give e-giving. Okay, let’s, let’s hit another couple. We have just a couple minutes left zoho common errors. So another error is on dh. This also goes to what needs to be in the plan. There are these limits that the irs imposes upon these plans about how much money could go in in a year you’re mentioned earlier and they’re they’re two separate limits. They kind of work together, but there’s one limit that’s the total amount that can go in as an employer contribution and an employee contribution and there’s a separate limit that could go in as an employee contribution that’s the seventeen thousand five hundred we talked about the total limit is fifty one thousand dollars oversignt pretty little bit per year. Okay, and i’m guessing that the error is miscalculation. Correct the errors, miscalculation and and then there’s also a ah limit on the amount of money of salary that you can take into account in doing the calculations. So in other words, you say ten percent of compensation you can’t consider any amount of compensation above two hundred fifty five thousand dollars, so i’m making five hundred thousand dollars kazama. You know, i’m the executive director most of that much. Almost half of that can’t be included in my contribution. Okay, we have time for just one more top five. So so another another issue is this minimum distribution issue. You know, actually, i’m gonna go really one where i’m going gonna actually go to another one, which i think is probably more important. Which is loans and hardships. Many of these plans allow participants take loans, and they you can take a loan out of your own account and you have to pay it back. General, have to pay it back over five years a little longer if it’s to buy house or a hardship distribution, which is, if you have something really bad happened to you within the rules of the irs. What the irs considers to be really bad, including medical expenses within a sir. Certain limits. If you have a casualty loss, if hurricane sandy was a good example, if you get the house bilich list and what’s the what’s, the trouble with these hardships, they’re not. So the rules for the loans and the hardships are actually quite complicated, and they are often not applied correctly. Okay, we can we can correct these, though. All through v c p the voluntary correction programme. Correct. Okay. All right. Evan giller, founding member of the law firm giller and calhoun at giller. Calhoun dot com. Evan, thank you very much for explaining this. And being a guest. It was my pleasure. Pleasure to have you. Thank you. Right now we go. Away. And when we come back, tony’s, take two, and then compensation clarity with jean takagi and emily chan will stay with me. They couldn’t do anything, including getting ding, ding, ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternative network waiting to get in. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef hyre. Welcome back time for tony’s take two again were pre recorded this week, so i can’t send live listener love i feel bad about that. I could guess a couple, i’m sure we have listeners from china ni hao and and we’re also we certainly have listeners from tokyo a bit there live listeners from tokyo and i forgot to have tio how teo konichiwa konichiwa for our listeners in japan and taiwan excuse me about taiwan is out there also where in the u s um, north carolina, california, new jersey, new york i hope i bet you’re out there. I’ll bet you’re out there durney stick to this week i wanted just remind you that i host a monthly podcast for the chronicle of philanthropy, and that is called fund-raising fundamentals. And this month i talked to consultant rosetta thurman about thie cycle in charities that causes fundraisers to be dissatisfied with their work and ceos to be dissatisfied with their fundraisers, which leads fundraisers to bail out of jobs all to the detriment of charitable missions. Now we talk with rosette about the causes and what fundraisers khun due to break the cycle and that’s on fund-raising fundamentals? You’ll find it on the chronicle of philanthropy website. You’ll also find it on itunes, and there are links on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, the twenty second of march twelfth show of the year. I now have a vintage version of non-profit radio. This is compensation clarity with jean takagi and emily chan. Right now we have jean takagi and emily chan on the line. We have them, don’t we both excellent. Jean is principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the popular blogger at non-profit law block, dot com and he’s at g tak gt a k on twitter. Emily chan is an attorney at d’oh and she’s, principal contributor to the non-profit lob log she’s the american bar association’s twenty twelve outstanding young non-profit lawyer and you can follow emily at emily chan at emily c h a n a million gene welcome back. Hi, tony. Hi, tony. Good to have you back. We’re talking this month about compensation because it seems to flow from what emily and i talked about just a couple of weeks ago, so emily, why don’t you? Why don’t you lead us into this from from last month? Sure, so are lots. So he talked about the private benefit rules at at the ad buy squeezed in a very big phrase there the preventable cruise up to the reasonable miss, and we’re going to get not this show, but basically we’re going to look at the penalty that the irish usually while imposed when they find an inappropriate benefit going. Teo insider as we talked about last week, ok, so now we’re really looking at, i guess, practically speaking, the kind of penalties that organizations should be very knowledgeable about and also very wary of so that they could follow the best practices and make sure they’re protecting their organizations. All right, you were cutting out a little bit, emily, but we were able to fix the sound quality. Just say that. Say that. Say that very, very rich and wordy phrase again from from last month that will talk more about just say that again because you cut out a little bit there. Rebuttable presumption of reasonableness. All right, we look forward to getting into that gene. What are the general guidelines? For compensation for and who are we talking about? Whose compensation are we talking about? And what of those general rules? Well, practically speaking, we’re talking about the compensation of the executives, so that would be the executive director or ceo or president, and of the cfo or treasure the organization has compensated, chief financial officer okay? And what are the rules generally, that just that it has to be fair and not excessive, that that’s practically the rule, tony so it can’t be excessive and and the way we try to judge that is we try to look at what comparable organizations air paying, and so the big question is, what is a comparable organization and what is a comparable position to compare? You know who we want to pay to another organization and what what they’re paying, let me throw something interesting at least interesting to me, and maybe you have the legal minds may not find it interesting, but what i do over here, you said it’s only for executives, but what i see in ah lot at colleges and universities, the the highest paid people there are often coaches, sports coach is like a basketball football. Coach at at a big big, you know, big name program, does this this excessive compensation apply to them? Also are on ly to the executives of the organization that’s a great question, tony. Thank you. We’ll bring you back next month. Thank you. Dream the area when we’re talking about big institutions like colleges and universities and healthcare systems and big non-profit hospital, the range of what we call disqualified persons or insiders definitely goes up. People have substantial influence over the organization or a particular segment of that organization. So football coaches will probably be drawn in into that equation when they have a huge influence on on the institution itself. Okay, there are just more general rule beside the what we call the intermediate sanction rule. Their excess benefit transaction rolls the night i go into jargon dale for that. Oh, my god. Yeah. All right. We’re gonna get to that stuff, apparently. And broader doctrines that you could get in trouble for as well. Okay. Broader than just the executive. So it’s so it’s those who can exercise ah, lot of control over the organization, wherever they are, wherever they are in the hierarchy. That’s a good way to think of it. Okay, cool. That’s the late person. I’m gonna turn you, but you wouldn’t know it the way i talk. Okay. Let’s. See, what is this intermediate sanction? Emily what? Intermediate? To what? What’s, the more extreme. So the more extreme penalty comes from the world. We have that last month with private benefit private kermit, we’re technically really the penalty is replication of sabat on that thing’s pretty severe. Especially if a benefit confirmed it was only a little bit more than what it should have been. So what the irs produced then what? Something that they called their intermediate sanctions. Also the excess benefit transaction will which instead of replicating tax exempt status, so actually impose a penalty tax on that access benefits. So it can be suppose both on the insider who benefited. And it usually starts with a twenty five percent penalty talks of the excess amount. But also boardmember should know that they can also be taxed of ten percent of the access amount if they knowingly approve the transaction. Okay, knowingly mean let’s. Just stick with compensation at this point. Let’s not let’s, not get too the xx of benefits we’re just talking about direct compensation, cash, cash compensation. So so boardmember sze, who knowingly approved it meaning meaning they knew that it was excessive, right? So they have actual knowledge of the transaction, and when i use the term access benefit, i don’t mean the stuff on top of what say base salary, just an excess benefit itself, which could be a large compensation o just the way that i used that term in the way that fused with the rules. So um and boardmember, who would be considered knowingly approving such a transaction, would be someone who knows the terms of the transaction. I’m also aware of the possibility that that transaction might be excessive in violation of this excess benefit transactional on and also, you know, failing to make those reasonable tends to figure out whether it is actually excessive, but this goes back to the fiduciary duties of directors and making sure that there, meeting their duty of carrie’s, loves their duty of loyalty and making sure that they’re making informed decisions and that it is in the best interest of the organization by not being something that okay, and we have talked about those those duties those fiduciary duties previously can can these penalties that are levied against boardmember sze can they can they be paid by the organization? I’m generally no. So this would actually be triggered under state law of there are provisions that have to do is indemnification, which is the organization’s ability to cover expenses that would come out to a show like this. They’re being stewed in your capacity as like an officer dirac, the organization and generally that’s. Probably not going to be okay under state law, no matter what. Okay, okay. Let’s. See? Okay, gene let’s, let’s. Turn to you and let’s talk a little about the this the rebuttable presumption of reasonableness that emily mentioned before. What? What what’s that how does that play in here? So these procedures are useful wherever you’re know where you were, you know that you’re going to compensate one of these insiders amount that is not obviously way below market level, but you should go through these procedures just as a general rule. Anyway, if you’re anywhere near paying market rate compensation and their three step, the first step is getting advance approval by the board of directors before you. Enter into that confrontation transaction after the interested party there’s uninterested director in there is going to be compensated abstains from that vote and does not participate in that. Okay. And that would include on executive officer who’s who’s on the board. Because of that position, ex officio boardmember they should they should abstain as well if we’re talking about their compensation. Right? Okay, so you get the advance approval with with the abstention of the person who’s involved what it would else duitz step two is reliance on appropriate comparability data. So we’re looking at comparable salaries from similarly situated organizations for similar positions of similar work. So it’s all about getting the right comparable. It might be done through salary surveys, working with professionals that our salary experts in the non-profit area, or maybe looking at form nine nineties they’re different concerns about just taking other organizations form nine nineties to make sure that the right comparables but a lot of smaller organizations do it that way. What are those? Well, before we go on, what are those concerns about using the nine? Ninety? Well, they might not reflect in the nine, ninety special payments investing of like deferred compensation, though some organizations may look like they’re playing a really high salary, but those were just the result of past things that have been obligations that were paid in the reporting year. So you can’t really consider that a part of the the annual salary, for example, of that executive that showing on the nine, ninety that would not be good. Comparable. Okay, so i mean, can a small charity avoid having to hyre ah, compensation expert to do these comparability surveys? What are the other ways? Or maybe there is no other way. Well, there are some compensation surveys that are out there for free as well. You confined things from charity navigator. And i believe guys start might have some some compensation service for free. You have to be careful, though, because sometimes the ranges of the size of the organization don’t play in your favor. So, you know, they may say, well, this is the average compensation for organizations with annual budget between one million and ten million. And depending upon where you fit in that structure, using the average may not be appropriate for your organization. Right? Okay. Okay. Um and then add a couple more things to the comparability that it’s because you brought a small organization a general rule for organizations with less than one billion and gross receipts toe have at least three comparable so it’s not necessarily there. You know why spread search for comparability data. But tow have three is generally considered reasonable. And another thing to consider is really just giving you an idea of the band wins a salary that’s out there. But it would be problematic for an organisation to just look face purely on numbers and decide ok, just because it fits in the band with that that’s appropriate. I mean, that kind of goes back to your example of the football coaches where sometimes just so skewed that if you keep pushing the upper limit of the band, when you just start to see these ranges leaves up and up and you really do need a look that performance on the duties that are being like that? Yes. Okay, of course. The right, the person’s performance as well. Not just what other people are paying somebody similar in a similar organization. Okay, thanks so much. Thank you. Look at the geography because i know. In manhattan in san francisco, where we are the average salary’s going to be much higher than somewhere in des moines, iowa. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And there’s one more part to the rebuttable presumption. Can you can you explain that in about a minute, gene? Yeah, the third part is just timely. An adequate documentation of the board action. So that means really putting it down in the minutes on getting those minutes approved by the next board meeting. So you just want to make sure that you’ve documented it. And if you’ve got comparable, attach the comparable to the minutes to prove that the board has actually looked at these before making that determination and approval. All right, now that we’ve explained the three prongs of the rebuttable presumption gene, please explain what the hell a rebuttable presumption is. That’s great. What what it does is it shift the burden from your organization, have to prove that the salary is reasonable and shift it to the irs to prove that it’s unreasonable, which the irs doesn’t want to do because it takes a lot of work. So if you just go through these procedures, you kind of put a big barrier to the irs to go after you brew for paying excessive amounts because you say i’ve used the procedures that treasury regulations have approved this is the way it should be done in the iris used to get it back off at that point, unless they think they have a really big fight. So then write if you follow these procedures, the compensation is presumed to be reasonable. But the irs has the option, although it’s unlikely that it would exercise it to rebut that presumption and try to prove that the compensation was unreasonable. Is that right? If they want to take it to court, if there were. Okay. Okay. Likely. Okay, but it’s presumed rash reasonable if you follow the three prongs that you laid out, correct. Okay, we’re going to take a break. And when we come back, jean and emily and i are going to a little role play exercise, we’re going to be the board of directors and we’re going to decide on somebody’s compensation. Um, i don’t know. One of you two is going to chair the meeting, so you’re welcome over this break to figure out who that’s going to be. And i’m going to be a boardmember and then the other person be boardmember, too. So stay with us for that role. Play exercise. Don’t know what’s going to happen. I hope you’ll stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your object. Dafs. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I got more live listener love laurel, maryland bend, oregon, and tokyo welcome to our second listener in tokyo. We got more tokyo listeners than we have oregon or south carolina or north carolina listeners maurin tokyo than most other states listening. Okay, jean emily, we’re talking about compensation, compensation, clarity, and we’re going to our role play board board meeting now. Who’s the chair. I’m okay. Genes the chair. Emily, you and i are board members or way just regular boardmember zor is one of our compensation under discussion or what? I think we’re about boardmember okay, but neither of us has our compensation under consideration that person’s removed. Okay. All right. Go ahead, gene. You’re gonna share the meeting, okay, tony so right now we’re talking about approving the compensation of the candidate who is going to be our executive way, didn’t approve. We didn’t prove last month’s meeting meeting minutes. What kind of what kind of foisting? Of ah, fake what? We didn’t approve last minutes less months. Amina melkis consent agenda earlier, tunney and now we’re on the second part of our meeting. We’re okay. All right, go ahead. I’m taking my time taking my fiduciary. Duty very seriously. I want you to write that care, loyalty and what’s my third fiduciary duty. Besides karen loyalty, a lot of people like this, they obedience. Obedience. Okay, well, i’m not all right. Well, i mean, i’m failing on three, but but i’m taking my first two very seriously. All right, go ahead. Emily. Emily obviously doesn’t care, but she’s like lester, let me see lackluster boardmember i hope your term is up soon. Emily all right, okay, so we’ve got an executive director that we need to hire, and this executive director is pushing us for a salary of one hundred thousand dollars and the possibility of bonuses of up to twenty thousand dollars for pizza. We’ve got a million bucks in our budget, and we’re not really sure whether approve this compensation or not. He looks like a great candidate, but there’s some other candidates out there as well. What do you think, tony? Should should we hire this person that the salary they’re asking for? Well, do we have any comparable data by organizations that are similar to ours? Go thin geographics and also annual budget on dh with that data also be comparable in terms of this person’s responsibilities. Emily, i think you were convicted. You right? Collecting this data? Yeah. So i researched some organizations that of similar type similar size and similar roles of executive directors. And i found three different data points. So, uh, one and these they’re all in our geographical area. One is eighty thousand one. Report ninety thousand and another one report. One hundred and ten thousand. Okay. We’re looking at one hundred thousand with the possibility of a twenty thousand dollar bonus. What do you think, tony? Um, i guess the bass sounds or so we have. Eighty ninety. First of all, i’m assuming that emily knows what she’s doing when she says that these things are similar and putting a lot of faith in her because i could be personally liable if this turns out to be excessive compensation. Um, only if you know that it’s expensive. Funny, but that’s. All right, that’s. Right. Okay. Raise a good point about the line. What do you need? A reliable source. Okay, well, your outstanding young lawyer. So i’ll assume that you’re on. You’re on the board. Very in doing this. Surveys what i brought to the board. Meeting and we’re going to attach them to the minutes of the okay, i like the i’d liketo like the base of one hundred. I’m not sure about the extra bonus of twenty family. What do you think about that extra bonus of twenty when the high of our comparable is only one ten? I don’t think it’s necessarily problematic if we have adequate justification for allowing that for example, if thiss opportunity with this executive director is probably going to pass us by, we are in a bind because we’re now doing an executive director succession that we didn’t anticipate and the organization’s going to be really hurt if we don’t find somebody who’s qualified and this is the most qualified person we found and we’re actually getting a really good deal for this person and it is discretionary, so it’s going to be up to the board at the end of the year and we have put a limit on it, you know, maybe we should evaluate again looking at our revenues and looking again at the comparability data whether twenty thousand is reasonable, but i’m not opposed to putting the opportunity of a bonus into the contract. Right now, that’s. A bunch of malarkey. I’m walking out of this meeting. Did you hear me? Did you? My footsteps and i just slammed the door closed. I i’ll propose i’ll ask to see if there’s a motion to approve a one hundred thousand dollars based salary with a possibility of a ten thousand dollar bonus. And we will actually look at the possibility of a further ten thousand dollar bonus if we hit certain revenue goals that might allow us to look at other comparable, do you think that’s reasonable? All right, i’ll come back into the meeting. All right? I’ll go along with that. We have to wrap up our meeting very quickly. Yes, i would approve that. Okay, so family makes the most money. Wilbekin were approved. We’ve got it as a draft that being the diligent boardmember i am just a reminder that we need to have adequate documentation and our board minutes. So i’m going to write down the terms of the transaction. We approve the date it was approved, the board members that were present during the debate who voted. I’m also going to attack the comparability data on there and as well document the fact that we followed our conflict of interest policy and removed the executive director from the conversation that was emily chan she’s, an attorney at neo non-profit exempt organizations law group and our board chair was jean takagi he’s, the principal of neo. You’ll find them both blogging at non-profit law blogged, dot com, gene and emily, thank you very much. My pleasure, thanks to my guests this week, evan giller and emily chan and jean takagi next week, aziz said, i’m recording this show weeks in advance, so you’ll i don’t know what’s going to be on here the twenty ninth completely, but have i ever let you down? I have not. So hopefully you don’t think i have let you down? I do know, scott koegler will be with me on march twenty ninth. You can count on that good old scotty will be here. He’s, our technology contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news what’s he going to talk about the man is only human. I can’t ask him this many weeks in advance, but has he has? Scott koegler ever let you down? We’re all over the social web, but you can’t make a click without sparkle a testa smacking your head into tony martignetti non-profit radio itunes, facebook, youtube, twitter, linkedin, four, square pinterest. Slideshare facebook. If you’ve been to the facebook page lately, if you love the show, please like the facebook page and more of our information will get into your news feed. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer on the assistant producer is janice taylor. Shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you will be with me next friday, one, two, two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com. Oppcoll i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Duitz get him. Thing. Good hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten am on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me, larry. Shock a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society politics, business it’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about so gain special access to the ivory tower? Listen to me very sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Talking dot com.

133: A Conversation With Amy Sample Ward – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guest this week:

Amy Sample Ward, author of “Social Change Anytime Everywhere,” membership director for Nonprofit Technology Network and our monthly social media contributor.

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host and it’s friday, march sixteenth. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. It would hurt me deeply if it came to my attention that you had missed integrate communications and marketing that’s integrate g r e a t communications and marketing. Diane lansing, president of lansing associates, had ideas for getting your communications and marketing in sync. She wants you to apply analytics so you’ll know what works and what doesn’t in the short and long terms sounds simple, but are you doing it? Diane had advice for getting you started and p r i programme related investments are prospect research contributor and the prospect finder maria simple was with me to explain why foundations don’t only make grants, some offer loans, loan guarantees, equity investments and other pr ise how do you find those foundations? That’s what we talked about last week with maria she also had info on conferences that you’ll want to pay attention to this week. A conversation with amy sample ward, our social media scientists and monthly contributor, has a new co authored book social change any time everywhere how to implement online multi-channel strategies to spark advocacy, raise money and engage your community the book is shorter than its title. We’ll talk about how your non-profit can raise money in fact, find advocates and move the needle on engagement in our any time everywhere world. Amy sample ward is going to be joining us, but she’s not here yet, so we’re going to start with tony’s take two instead of doing that later in the show, and then we go to a break and we’ll hope that amy’s here the time that that break is over. Tony steak to my block this week is number one podcast and two in the top five i want to give many, many thanks to blogger cheryl mccormick she’s, the principal of ascend non-profit consulting, and she named her top five non-profit podcasts and this show to show that you are listening to right this moment was number one, tony martignetti non-profit radio and cheryl, thank you very much for that fund-raising fundamentals, which is my monthly podcast that i host for the chronicle of philanthropy was number three. Cheryl, thank you very much. Again for that on this show number one show, in case i hadn’t mentioned that she likes jargon jail, she likes my jog in jail, and she likes live listener love that i send out, and i like those things too, and i think they are. I think both podcasts are highly rated by blogger cheryl mccormick, but also doing very well outside that because they’re fund-raising to do, um, i just love the opportunity to meet people that i would not have met otherwise and not only meet them, but pick their brains today, it’s going to be amy sample ward for an hour if she ever gets here, but all the other people, all the other guests, you know, i get to talk to them for twenty five, thirty minutes or so. Ah, that is just a riel joy, knowing that you’re learning from them as i’m picking their brains and we’re all learning, we’re both learning. I’m learning as well and as you fund-raising fundamentals, that’s a shorter one that said that’s, a monthly podcast, it’s only ten minutes and it’s devoted to fund-raising, but again picking the brains of experts for the benefit of listeners that is a real pleasure. The fund-raising fundamentals you can hear on the chronicle of philanthropy website and it’s, also on itunes, cheryl’s only negative for the for each of the two podcasts was that there’s not enough of them, she what she wishes i did them more frequently, and that was very gracious of her. Cheryl mccormick. Thank you much very much again. Her company is ascend non-profits and you’ll find cheryl mccormick at ascend non-profits dot com, and she has a very cool logo. The check out the logo for their company, very nicely done, very smart, very clever there’s, more on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is tony’s take two little extended version for friday, the fifteenth of march, the eleventh show of the year. We’re going to take a break, hoping amy sample ward gets here by the time that’s over on while we take this break, i’ll be putting together some live listener love and thinking about what we’re going to talk about. If amy doesn’t get here in time, stay with me talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation, top trends and sound advice. That’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m janna agger’s, senior vice president, products and marketing from blackbaud oh! Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’ve got live listener love forest grove, oregon welcome forest grove you haven’t been here before. Welcome. Lincoln, nebraska, brooklyn, new york and woodside, new york welcome live listener love out to all of you let’s. See in aa. Tokyo, japan. Osaka, japan, and fukuoka, japan. Konichiwa, welcome live love tto live listen to love teo each live listener amy’s not here yet, so we’re going do a little a little preview of her book, a little browse through her book. The first thing that i want to point out is that i wish it had more pictures when i’m when i’m picking books. I i flipped through looking for pictures and i probably would not have bought her book. It didn’t have enough pictures for me. I like pictures like more graphic, so it has graphics and has some screen shots. It’s very good that way, but i would like more. I would like more pictures in amy’s book. Aside from that, any simple word has just joined us. Well, i’m sure you did. All right. Pick moment. Take a moment. Impose yourself if we figured you were in the subway, i was just saying, i wish your book had more pictures. Oh, yeah. Pictures of what? Just it doesn’t really matter. I don’t know. A cute dogs, landscapes, landscapes. Yeah, i just look, i look for pictures as i’m i’m browsing through the book section. The books, it was meant more for reading than browsing, but okay, take another breath. Yes. You knew you knew that we were waiting for you, and yeah, i was going to be fine, but welcome. Thank you. Have you for the full hour? Yeah, exactly. I’m happy to be here for as much of the subway would let me to be our best majority. I did. Tony’s take two in advance. So? So when i’m i’ll have that time together. Congratulations on your book. Thank you. Its code written by allison. Is it keeping kapin kapin much? Tell us about alison she’s, the founder of radcampaign and the tele summit and network women who tech she’s based in d c uh, she’s. Pretty cool. Yeah, i met her because i was at your book launch. Oh, that’s right book launch that you did at the at planned parenthood parenthood federation. Yeah, yeah, that was very good to about forty people. If you got to meet your husband, max? Yes, very nice. Often left alone as your traveling throughout the country. Yes. That’s the that’s the first time he’s ever seen me speak in any capacity in public? Yes. He said that i didn’t talk to him. You know, first time i know. Lovely. Um okay, we’re in. Why do you let’s make this clear? Where? Ok, i need any time everywhere, what’s, what’s our anytime, everywhere world that you are trying to help people make social change in. Well, the anytime everywhere is really focused on the people, not the organization. So all of your constituents, donors, supporters, whatever you want to call them, they are, you know, living their lives basically around the clock, their life. And they are thinking about okay, if i want to talk to this person, i’m going to do it here. Or if i want to talk about this topic, i’m going to do it here. You just interact with your community, however you do as an individual, it might mean a friend calls you and then after you hang up, maybe you go look at facebook and interact with another friend there and then maybe send your mom and email, you know, but you’re not thinking okay, well, i only talked to sam on the phone, and i only talk to my friend barb in email, you know, you as people, we don’t treat our communications and our networks in that way, so organization shouldn’t be saying, ok, well, we only send you emails or we only let you talk about our campaign on facebook. We need to think about the way we communicate and allow our communities to engage with us as as a way that crosses all those channels as well, okay? We’re not segmenting our lives and write our community, our conversations, right? Stilted, like communications are conversations, right? I see somebody on foursquare check in, and i’ll make a snarky comment or something that i have seen one of those geever andi didn’t answer it as i recall, um, in fact, you were recently traveling, you were in south by southwest. I wass that’s ah, what i think of it is just a big music and party and drink fest. Is that what many people think of it that way as well? I’ve never been there at the beauty of being me is that i can know nothing about something and still be an expert in it. Yes, of course. Oh, i think i’m very well acquainted with south by southwest. Even though i’ve never been there. Why don’t you tell us what the rial tell people like me who think that everything that they know nothing about but it’s a very comfortable place to be. Actually i what is south by southwest? Well, it it are very originally was a music festival, but now has three components music interactive, which is really all kinds of technology, not just social media, including gaming and all kinds of interfaces hardware, software, etcetera and film. So film and interactive take place the same week. Concurrently on then the following week is all music. Were you there in your capacity as membership director of non-profit technology network? I waas so there’s a non-profit lounge there lounges of all different types sponsored by different people. So there’s, a blogger lounge meant for bloggers to find each other, etcetera. So the non-profit lounge is sponsored each year by beaconfire ah, long time, you know, and ten member organization sponsor, etcetera, and they opened it up for others to get to be in the space with them so and ten had a presence. We had a couple couches, if you will, and i was also working with them to manage the content each day so that people that were started in the lounge, what kind of concert we had was that we had a different topic each day. So we had one day was focused on measurement and metrics. One day was focused on engaging millennials. One day was focused on technology, staffing and the capacity around technology. Um, there were a couple more, and we so we highlighted little, you know, not not trivia because they’re real. But, you know, just little tidbits from our research each day based on that topic. So you come in the room and learn different things. And then at lunchtime we had panels on that topic so people that we knew were going to be either at south by southwest. Are actually based in austin that we could bring in to talk that day, just with whoever wanted to be there and engage with them. And then night times that was the drink fest in well, for some, i think drinking started as early is, like eleven, because i guess technically it’s noon on the east coast. Yes, yes, all right, anything. Did you learn a couple of one or two little things that that you didn’t know or maybe reinforce something that what was your was your take home from from south by the has to be something? Yeah, i think you know, they’re always different applications or tools that get launched itself myself west. So people, you know, waiting, teo, unveil some new application, and so there was a bit of that as well, but i think this year, the feeling that i got from a lot of the non-profit and social impact crowd at the conference was that people are really starting to get to a place where they feel really proud about some of the things they’ve done in their non-profit and they they wish, you know hey, what? Why don’t we get all the attention? You know, just because that really big organization, you know, that has tons of marketing budget and had tried and tried many things and then succeeded with something, you know, we’re a tiny organization, and we did that to, you know, they want a platform for their voices to but, you know, south by is always kind of mixing up the content and have had different tracks and and things like that over the years. So it’s not to say that there will never be a platform for them. But i think this year, there are a lot of organizations there, you know, looking for a place where they could stand on their soapbox and then get to share with everyone what they’ve worked on. All right and excellent that they got that exactly like to see that small, especially small and midsize shops getting attention. Craig newmark wrote the forward to your book. Craig is the founder of craig craig’s list, of course. And quick connect. He’s. Been our guest on the show twice. I think that was a trivia question once. How many times you been on the show? Oh, did we do that? Oh, i think we did i think for a giveaway and weigh just you were my guest for the hundredth show and we’re giving away? Yes, but the answer’s two way long ago gave away a lot of intense swag for us to give away. Yes, and he says in the forward that social media and good customer service or big deals you think we were going, you and i talk every month about social media, we know that that’s a big deal goodcompany mers service what? Why? Why is he talking about that with respect to the social engagement social change? Well, i think it doesn’t matter if you’re for-profit aura non-profit if you do true direct service or not, ah lot of the most basic day to day interactions that you could be having with your community take the form of customer service, even if you know, in a non-profit we normally don’t call them, but answering people’s questions or just being able to be present on social media, where you see people asking a question, even if it’s not about you being the organization that can answer the question for them and really playing a service role builds community in such a small kind of passive way, but that israel and you’re creating value with them, that it is a matter you know, if you are comcast and you want to use twitter to answer customer service questions or, you know you’re the humane society and you want to use twitter to make sure people know how to get help with their animals and and, you know, i like your just broad definition of what’s customer service. I mean, it may just be interacting on a day to day, right? You may not think of it as a service to the customer just having, you know, we’re just engaged in a conversation there on the engagement ladder and what exactly were just, you know, talking to them right, exactly and helping helping your supporters take advantage of all that they could do with you is customer service, you know, someone calling and saying, i want to volunteer, but i don’t know how and you pointing them in the direct in the right direction that is still a customer service function in your organization. We’ve got some live listener love we’re talking about texas austin, texas, where itself by was but we have san antonio on the line, santa or on the web? You know antonio, texas live listeners love welcome, welcome to the show and the conversation let’s, talk, talk a fair amount, i think about fund-raising and then how will we even, you know, engagement and advocacy get, you know, getting talking toa advocates and motivating advocates, and you spent some time talking about the different motivations to give why white people are giving on dh there certainly have been articles and books on this right by the the traditional, i guess fund-raising prose that are out there, you you spent a little time with emotions, emotions versus statistics, right? What would you like to say there? Well, obviously, we are humans, we are driven by emotion. Um, and i think that a lot of online tools facilitate that really well, you know, how many times have we seen a tweet or gotten an email where they say, you know, this many million people in this country are dealing with this issue and it’s like, okay, well, i don’t actually know a billion people, so i can’t conceptualize that very well, you know, but having a story that directly connects with you and is someone that’s already been served by that organization helps you understand the kind of person that is may be dealing with that issue and the way that the organization helps them because that’s really what we need thio conceive as the person who’s going to take action. Isn’t that what does it really mean for a billion people to be dealing with this issue? But what does it look like to help a person with dealing with that issue? If i can conceptualize what changing the fate is, then i can understand how i can help it and be a part of it. But if it’s just the raw data, it’s really hard to see what the action is in that, and social media really helps with storytelling because you can have, you know, people interacting people sharing their own story in response to that story, it really facilitates that, but the other part of emotion is our natural competitiveness and, you know, not really wanting to say, oh, yeah, my friend karen gave a lot more to that organization that i did. Who says that? Who says, oh, i gave the least of my friends. You know, and and tapping into that natural competitiveness, you know, using peer pressure for good is actually very successful. One of the research reports that we sight in the book was in pledges, so so, like a pledge drive over the phone, but still you could do this on social media, but when the collar you know, talking to the donor said that the previous caller had given more than they were about to pledge they then up to their pledge, and they upped it even more when the color sad. Oh, actually, the woman before you, if it was a woman collar and once they knew it was the same gender is them. They gave even more so just by presenting the opportunity to be outdone by someone else, people wanted to beat them. We’re going to talk that’s, outstanding. We had a guest i had guessed professor gen shang from the university of indiana, and she had done research with this was telephone based also with public radio and bloomington, indiana. When when? When certain whether she had five key words and when they were used to thank the person you’re or to describe the person as as a donor, so you’re very kind of you to give or it’s very compassionate of you to give that it increased the the donations right for that call. And actually i think that we’re doing it. I’m being a little inarticulate, but where they were doing it was i want to thank you for your kind donations in the past or your compassionate or your thoughtful donations in the past, and we hope that you’ll you’ll help us today. Yeah, those using there were five different adjective she had and they could trigger they would trigger hyre giving than someone who who was just thanked. Thank you for your past giving, right. So this is this is really interesting when it’s gender and when there’s a comparison to the previous calling out, how were they, you know, like with the language they were using? Because you don’t be snarky about, right? Right? Do you remember? I know they were introducing that it’s now the top of my head, it was something like, you know, similar like, thanks so much for your desire to give the woman before you donated fifty how much would you like to donate? So you’re just kind of using it as a context setting statement and then giving them the chance to say like, well, darn it, i’m given sixty five, you know? Yeah, excellent. Okay, um going back to your point about big numbers versus a face, i found a quote, i’m going to quote mother teresa, i found a quote that that’s pertinent to this, i think she said, never worry about numbers, help one person at a time and always start with the person nearest you social media can make a story come alive, it could be a person near you, it could be pictures on instagram. It could be video youtube video on your blogged you can you can put a face to the the homelessness or the hunger that affects a billion people right, and show people how their gift will will impact that that story right? And i like the part of the quote that says start with the person nearest to because that’s too, what we’ve talked about many times in the show don’t go out there and try and find these new people. You already have a community of people that you work with, that you’ve served. Start with their stories and then other people will come out of the woodwork. You know that identify with that story or that have also been served, but maybe i hadn’t talked to you before, so start with the stories you already have and just show them out to the to the rest of the community. Ok, so some peer pressure, yes, about suffering a little point about about suffering can be a valuable, motivated give yeah, it’s kind of a weird nuance on competition. It’s it’s part of why things like walkathon tze and challenges of you know, if i if someone donates five thousand dollars, i’ll shave my head because we actually really liketo watch each other have to deal with something that we don’t have to deal with. And so it’s it’s part of why we can say great, you know, if you pledge, i’ll have to run this many miles. Terrific. I would like to see my friend have to run that many miles yeah, and again, doing that in a place where all those people, you know, in a like a thon process where all those people are competing for donations gives you both layers. Of the captain’s competing against each other for the most pledges, but then also all of their friends saying, oh, yeah, i want my friend to have tto shave his head back in the dark days before, before i knew you as well as i do, those were the dark days they were well, they were more your doctor darker for you if you’re going there were darker for you before you knew me then and then before i knew you, um, i was used to now, so you’ve even like you, really? You haven’t liked me because i used to pay more attention to vanity metrics, then you and i have talked about vanity tricks, and i’m going to give the quintessential example of it in a second. I pay less attention to those things now more involved in the more thinking about the engagement, and i was paying at that time very close attention to the number of facebook like likes, likes of the show’s facebook page, and this was a couple of years ago, and i wanted to get to three hundred and i don’t remember where we started, right? But i with some high school friends. Of mine, who were willing tto co chair the campaign. I issued the blue pedicure challenge and i said that i would get a blue pedicure if friends from anywhere but the two friends from high school with cochair radcampaign if we would get to three hundred lakes and of course we did get the three hundred likes within a certain time is like two weeks or so. We’ve got three hundred and and i went across the street from the studio here there’s this clip on the second floor there’s a salon and i got a blue pedicure and i had video it’s sons on the youtube channel. It was great fun. Yeah, and people said, you know, a soon as we got the three hundred are weighted the blue pedicure. Yeah, it’s tony gonna make good on the way we want to see the photo so i had video of me making my appointment, which was won. And then i picked my color. Nice. Different shades of blue, of course. Of course. I picked my blue color. And then i went back a week later for my appointment, and i upgraded to the powerful max. Also i got the paraphernalia. I don’t even know what that means, but well, they put your feet in warm wax. Oh, interesting wax. Okay, yeah, i don’t know what i’m supposed to soften. I think too interesting. That was my first and last boedecker left so many questions now, so well, they’re all answered on the video there i’ll go to the video i block i met blogged it too. I know it’s on the but certainly it’s on youtube blue pedicure challenge you took a multi-channel approach to this pedicure experience. I did that’s true because we campaign was in multi-channel and then the impact in the outcome were were probably blawg and certainly facebook and youtube e did take multi-channel provoc any other and plenty of engagement. Lots of engagement it was great fun. Yeah, it was good. So pie in the face you use the pie in the face example in the back. There’s. A picture of someone one of the few pictures in the book has someone getting those lots of graphs and good pictures. Has someone getting a pie in the face and there’s a picture of alison’s dog in the book leah leah lida lida lida. Like peter, with a now. Okay, why is why is there dog picture? Because they adopted her. And so there’s ah, case study in there about an adoption campaign. Okay, so there you go, there’s a picture and it’s a cute i didn’t say there were no pictures. I said it’s not enough to suit me. We’re coming out in the fall with color book edition, a graphic novel way have just about a minute before break let’s talk about the last area of motivation sharing impact you and i talked about this before, but let’s just remind listeners how important that is. Yeah, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, i think a lot of organizations, when they think sharing impact, they think, okay, well, you know where the campaign’s over will send an email that says, we got all of the money and now we’re going to do the thing. There we go, that’s the report, but but there’s versions of sharing impact that are kind of like evergreen content, you know, the putting, putting some of your expenditures or big, successful things in the footer of your email. So anytime someone goes in the photo of your website. Anytime someone goes your website, they see this is how much money is being devoted two programs, and this is what those programs have created, or whatever. There’s also reached the research that shows on donation forms, where you actually show the impact of the money, people donate more so, again, just just keeping it really clear, clear and present all the time as an opportunity, right? Wait, go away for a couple minutes, and when we come back, of course, amy stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. Co-branding think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get him. E-giving good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Welcome back big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent there’s a bunch of you on facebook, there’s a bunch of you on twitter and join the conversation with those already there on twitter, use the hashtag non-profit radio thanks for joining us multi-channel let’s see what you bring in-kind caroline, caroline, caroline xero eyes are san antonio is that i believe shut up, san antonio. Um okay, so we’re all about multi-channel we should have a plan for our multi-channel now engagement strategy turns out we are too, right? Yeah, you want to have goals? You and i have talked about some of this before, but right, putting it all together now and you’ve put it together in a book. So it’s ah it’s worth it’s worth revisiting the stop? Yes, because they are important. R r multi-channel plan goals. But how are we going to figure out where we want to be? Well, especially for fund-raising you know, goals have to be really specific. It’s hard to say we’re going to do this year and campaign because we would like to raise some money and you know where we’re soup kitchen, we do things that are important. Although important, not compelling has a goal for your staff to even create a campaign out of, but also for your donors to want to support. But if you can say if we raise this much money, it will actually give us this many meals in this much time, you know, three hundred meals over the course of the month. If we can raise this much money, people then can imagine both you know what their actual, like hundred dollar donation means as faras how much is served, but it also sets you up to do more than your asking, you know, if you say we’re we’re shooting for ten thousand dollars and that gives us three hundred meals for the month of january as soon as you get close to the goal. It’s really easy to say terrific. Now, if we get ten thousand more, we can feed everyone for february two instead of those campaigns that you see where they’ve done a really great job, they’ve activated their community, and once it starts, they actually start raising a lot of money and then they get to the end and they think terrific close down shop, you know, the thermometer reached the top instead, you’re setting yourself up to go is much, you know, raise as much as you can in the time that you’re planning to run the campaign and you also set yourself up. If in case you don’t reach your number, you’re still able to report back in a successful way of saying, you know, we had high hopes of raising ten thousand and we didn’t get there, but we’re still have enough to do two hundred bills this month, and this is how you could help us, you know, after the holidays to serve those last hundred or whatever. So giving yourself a really clear goal lets you iterated kind of as the campaign goes and respond to how it how it’s doing important, do you think tio, have a time limit to your your fund-raising goal? Definitely ah lot, whether you have one week or a one month or however long that the time is, you’re going to see an initial tick and then a big drop in the valley and then as it gets closer, you know, everyone starts donating again, so it doesn’t really i mean, technically, it matters you don’t want to say this is a yearlong donation campaign, but whatever the duration, is it’s really clear or it’s really important to be clear about when the end date is so that people know ok? It’s coming, oh, my gosh, i better donate now and and they actually respond to that e mail instead of just saying, oh, well, i could do it next time i remember or next time i have my wallet. In-kind now we’re gonna have to figure out how to message message just campaign, so that should be a part of our our plan also, exactly, and a lot of organizations, you know, when when starting to think about a campaign fund-raising or otherwise get really excited in that staff meeting when you start brainstorming like the catchphrase of the campaign, you know, and that can be fun and enjoyable, but very rarely are the witty catchphrase is actually the things that include the action and the ask, so don’t spend too much time thinking of like balloons for ur or whatever like crazy thing that maybe is related to the campaign is because you want to make sure whatever very simple phrasing you use and then build your campaign off of includes the aschen, the action so what, you know, give or do this thing for, you know, this many meals in this time? And then once you have that core message, ain you khun start planning out of communications calendar that’s reflective of all those channels you want to use remembering, of course, offline or direct mail and not just e mail, etcetera. The other part about messaging that i see organizations forget about is is they concentrate on how they’re going to launch the campaign, and their communications calendar will say, you know, here’s, the first email that goes out and here’s, how we’re going to decorate our facebook page and rebranded there’s no date in that planet’s launch plan and then exactly exactly for exaggeration plan. Sometimes organizations say, well, you know, we want to be responsive, we want a wait and see how it goes. Well, that’s totally fine, but you could still say our plan is to send a second email day three of the campaign, and we’ll be able to say what you contribute exactly. You need to have planned out when you’re going to message so that you can say great if day three, we’re going to send it on update email let’s, make sure later that afternoon facebook has an update as well, and not just another you know, status report or something, so it helps you maintain a good flow across your channel so it’s not always responsive and you’re you know, twitter isn’t just thanks, thanks, thanks, but also has things to share out, you know, that match your other communications you meant now you mentioned offline also. So this is that we’re not just talking about online social social networks, but the offline strategies should be coordinated, if that’s the way that you’re right, typically engaging with people right? And some organizations may plan an offline launch event the day that the campaign is launching. So of course, you know there’s a lot to do there, but it’s also a good reminder to to capture content from that launch event that you can use throughout the campaign. If you have a bunch of people in one place, make sure summer your staff have their phones or flip cameras or something to take some videos, and then you have maybe half a dozen videos you can use during the course of the campaign that again, just bring up on individual story, give you some divers content, etcetera, you know, whatever kinds of content you could pull from that live event but it’s also a good reminder that many organizations, even while running a campaign, have other work that you’re doing. And so maybe you have a press event about some of your other work use that as an opportunity. Once the press component of that piece is over, you know you’re done talking about that policy change, you have a room full of people, then say, great, you know, this is all done i had now want to talk to you about this campaign we’re running, and we’re on day five and it’s going really well and here’s the story take advantage of all those offline opportunities to engage people kayman sample ward is a cz membership director of and ten, which you’ll find it, and ten dot or ge and the book that we’re talking about whether that she co authored is social change anytime. Everywhere you khun follow amy on twitter she’s at amy r s ward at which we know stands for rene the artist for rene and her block is amy sample ward, dot or ge? Get some more live listener love madison, wisconsin, tustin, california. Salem, oregon welcome, salem. Welcome you’re in. So you were in salem several months ago. You were in somewhere in oregon. Weren’t portland, portland not very far away. Okay, italy, we don’t know what city in italy we just have a vague reference to italy. Buy-in giorno, chou. Welcome live listener love also tio sudbury in ontario, canada. And barnaby burnaby. Pardon me, burnaby in british columbia, canada two provinces welcome canada he’s offline strategies. Amy um, could also be so for aside from events direct mail if you usually using that channel telephone. Yeah, right. This these could all be coordinated in your three day or one week or one month campaign. Yeah, especially if you have stories that you know you’re going to use ahead of time in your campaign. You know, things that you’ve collected in the past, because if you khun send a direct mail piece, especially just something simple, like, ah, postcard or, you know, an invitation to participate in the campaign that is from that person or telling that person story has their photo, and then, two days later, you can send them an email that says, great. Now, the campaign’s open, and it has that same story. People then can say, yes, i know that story. I ready to kim. You know, i’m ready to join or actually remember that they’ve signed up with your organization at all, and that they should be engaging in this campaign. And that direct mail piece wasn’t a like a mistake in their mailbox in their apartment building. What do we know about how donors give across multi-channel versus more traditional the off, strictly off line? Well, that data is changing every year is we actually get more and more data at all have more people that we can ask survey, etcetera and and organizations are also becoming more sophisticated with being able to track there donors with they came from online or not, and then just able to report that data so it’s getting more it’s getting clearer every year, but really, we know that people that are online aren’t just saying because i found you online, i want to give to online or because i found you offline. I want to give to offline there’s actually a lot of back and forth that happens. And for most people, even if they are millennials, where people think for some reason, you know, young people only ever look at facebook even if they found you on social media, they still come to your website tto learn about your work and figure out if they want to donate to you so that relationship, maybe on facebook, that relationship may be off line at events they attend, but they still want to go to your website where they can kind of take control of what they’re looking at on your website and learn about your work? So it’s still really important that you have information on your website, but also that you provide that donation? Ask an opportunity button, what have you on your website so that once they go there and learn about you, they could take that action? We also know that activists are seven times more likely to be donors, so we can’t treat people like, well, this is my activist list in this database and over here is my donor list because those activists are totally primed to now give you money, they just put their name on a bunch of work for you, they might as well, you know, give you ten dollars, so it isn’t just about allowing them to come to you wherever you are, but also making sure you’re giving everyone the opportunity teo to engage in donation or fund-raising asks excellent keeping with our multi-channel a c said you could join us on twitter using hashtag non-profit radio there’s some folks on the facebook page and we have a phone call. We have tim. Tim, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you very much. Hi, dad. Ah, that’s. Adorable. Dad called yes. That’s to sweden. Where you where you calling from? Amy sample wards. Dad. Well, i work important oregon, but amy was raised, and we live out in the country outside of portland. Okay. And, uh, of course, her mother knew first and called me and said, oh, my god, going to computer your daughter’s on the radio. I just had to get on here listen and tell everybody i see how proud i am with us. Oh, thank you, dad. I love you. Now i hope you’re gonna listen. Other shows to tim, you know. Oh, i will now want you to be a regular water in there. Yeah. Do you have? Do you have a question? You really want to ask amy? Yeah. When’s. He coming home. This’s too sweet. I love this. I’ll see you on saturday. You will at a girl. All right. Find adal. Proud of you, amy. Thank you, dad. Nice to meet you to let me on it’s. A pleasure to meet you, tim. If you want to, if you want to ask. A question of amy. You can call eight seven seven for eight xero for one, two, zero, eight, seven, seven for eight xero for one to zero. Or you can also treat us. We’re monitoring the hashtag and the facebook page. That’s. A very nice way of saying you’re stalking social media in case people ask questions. Here in the studio, i’m busy talking now, theo control. We want to engage people in our messages, whether they’re online offline and you talk about the hooks we have just a little we have a minute before a break, what just once you just tease the idea of of the hook a little bit? Sure, i mean, different people have different ideas of messaging hooks and what you can do, but i think for people really thinking about multi-channel campaigns, the important idea of a hook is that that’s, the consistent piece you’re going to throw in so that whether you’re maybe sharing a photo and a story of someone on facebook that day or you’re sharing a big infographic about, you know, all this work that’s going into the campaign or maybe it’s just tweets about simple actions people can take you use a consistent hooked to bring them back into the campaign. So when isn’t just like this photo or share this info graf or, you know, retweet this step, but there’s an additional hook that always connects it backto larger campaign so people don’t think, oh, the campaign must be over, and now they’re just sharing info graphics. But but that there’s always some peace hooking. It all together, so it, you know, you want to break the campaign and into individual stories, individual images and smaller actions, but they have to be connected. Otherwise, people don’t get why am i doing this today? And i did this other thing yesterday. We’re going to go away for a couple minutes when we come back, amy, and i’ll keep talking about your your multi-channel plan and what should be in it, including the goals and the messages in the hook that we’re talking about. Stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Dahna have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Durney welcome back. I’ve got more live. Listen, love asia so well represented in john china sold. I’m sorry. Inchon, korea in john career where the airport is. Everybody knows that on john korea. Seoul, korea. Welcome, manu haserot. If you shout china, shanghai, china taipei, taiwan ni hao. Amy, did you know all these languages? No, i have been to korea, but i don’t remember much more than hello. Were you at the airport in inchon? No, you don’t know. You went to the floor. Different airport. I flew into seoul and then hopped over. Teo, you know we’re other places. Okay, um, the these these little hooks you you have some ideas about matches the hook in as part of your your message plan might be that you have a campaign match which could be which could be motivating to people to give. I thought you meant matches like to ignite striking matches. Right, that’s. Why? I could see the look on your face. Keep talking until you come back till it’s. In my reality, we need to show some reality. Um, yes, matches are a great way. As you know, in a fund-raising like retirement today campaign especially. When you know that money is already guaranteed, you don’t necessarily have to just recruit a matching sponsor, you could say, well, the sponsors giving us ten thousand dollars anyway, let’s give this sponsor more visibility, give them more value as a sponsor, but also leverage that to get more individual donations. So saying, you know, this sponsor is goingto give for every one of your dollars, and we want to get up to ten thousand just like, you know, they will match more to say, you know, every time you do this action, they will donate so that way you can, you know, maybe you don’t necessarily have a fundraising campaign that’s pure fund-raising but you want people thio maybe donate, you have this sponsor that’s going to donate the bulk of the funds, but you really want to get some behavior change in your community. So the diabetes hands foundation did a great campaign. We’re actually fall diabetes hands, foundation spend, you know, they’re they’re focused on people with diabetes and really making behavioral change so that they have healthier lives and are healthier people. So they had a campaign where there was a matching sponsor, so they were going to donate every time people exercise for thirty minutes and then took did their test so that they were being able to see from their own results that when they took a test than exercise for thirty minutes and then took another test, how much better their results were blood a butcher on, and then you report that. So so go onto the website or goto instagram and share a photo of view exercising and to prove that exercising for thirty minutes doesn’t mean you drive all the way to the gym. You change your clothes, you know, you do the thing, whatever it could just mean taking your dog for a walk that’s twice as long as normal. So you actually get to thirty minutes instead of maybe, you know, ten or fifteen around the block and realizing you don’t have to go out of your way to be exercising every day and still see those positive results in yourself. So every time you posted that you did the testing and you exercise into the test again, then the sponsor was going to donate. So of course you have all these people that for one month no. Every time i do this thing that i should do anywhere, you know, they’re going to donate money and then because you’ve done it for an entire month, and even if you only did it once a week, that was already for five times that you’ve taken this positive action and seen how easy it is, and you’re that much more likely to continue that behavior outstanding. I love how it’s so closely tied to exactly what they’re what they’re mission exactly, exactly improvement of health, of people with diabetes. Exactly. So now, if we have these messages now, we need to identify who they’re going to go out, too and where where they’re gonna go out? What? Which way said you and i are always saying, you want to go to people where they are exactly, but it’s also not the same message, every single place i mean, we have all experienced those campaigns where an organization sends you an email and then post on facebook like the exact same two paragraphs that they just set you in an email and then you don’t hear from them for the entire month, and they’re just waiting for the response to come in, so recognizing that you’re going to have some consistent messages throughout the campaign, like we talked about with the campaign communications calendar, but also that they’re going to be slightly different and nuance so new macy on facebook people not really catching the campaign, not really engaging, and yet you see people on twitter going crazy and sharing that information, so you’re going to have to address the facebook community, maybe with less information about the campaign, maybe that community is just saying we’re not really interested, so don’t be posting every single day because otherwise they’re definitely going to tune out, whereas you could start engaging twitter more cause people are really responding there. So it’s it’s also recognizing where to pull back and not just okay? Well, we’re going to send the ask everywhere another channel that you and i haven’t talked about it, we just have about a minute left. So is mobile. Yet for people who have given you permission, yeah, say little about mobile mobile is great for engaging people, especially in the middle of the campaign where you could send a text that says, hey, reminder, tomorrow is going to be the last day. So today, when you get home, you should donate or even include in the text the link so that they could go from there, you know, text message on their smartphone over to the to the web and donate their so long as you’ve actually optimized your website. So from a phone, the for the forum doesn’t look like this weird gobbledygook. Amy sample ward she’s, co author of social change anytime everywhere i’m very grateful that she’s, our regular social media contributor thank you. I really enjoyed having you on. Do you have so much banter with others? I want to believe that i give you the hardest time. Okay, well, i want then i in that case, i want you to continue believing that the book is social change any time everywhere get the book. We just talked about a small part of it. We talked about the fund-raising part, but it’s all about engagement and increasing advocacy. Moving the needle on engagement get this book it’s ah it’s on you’ll find it on amazon social change anytime everywhere amy’s blogger is amy sample ward, dot or ge? And on twitter she’s at amy rs ward amy, thanks so much. Thank you, real pleasure. Every time i got some more live listener love a story in new york, that’s, queens, welcome historia milton, ontario, canada, ontario. It checked in before we have had sudbury. Now we have milton welcome milton, and we’ll have to hold off on the rest of the live. Listen up until next week, so we’ll see who the live listeners are next week and next week, it’s going to be all lawyers. They’re going to stay in line, or i throw their ass is in jargon jail, it’s that simple, who writes this copy, i what i need is an intern, so i could blame for this shabby copy. If anybody knows an intern who wants that crummy job, please on twitter or facebook, let me know next week it is all lawyers first we’re starting with irs sale in aisle four o three b i’m going to say that word again because i’m pleased with that irs sale in aisle four o three b evan giller is a founding member of the law firm of giller and calhoun and he’s going to explain the irs is fifty percent off the penalty sale for four o three b retirement plans that are not in compliance. Trust me, i will keep him out of jargon jail and he’s he’s an interesting and very good natured guy, not your average lawyer. We’re gonna talk about the common mistakes in four o three b plans and what to do competition? Clarity are regular legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. They’re going to talk about the issues around proper compensation of your execs and others, there’s a lot to talk about there, and we’re going to a board role play also, we’re all over the social web. Amy amy sample word name a social network just name one lincoln, we’re not on lengthen. Yes, you know we are linked, and of course, we’re on the length. In group you go linked in group, you can ask the what we do there is, you can ask the asked a guest even more questions. Yes, the linked in group, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer and assistant producer is janice taylor. Shows social media is by regina walton of organic social media and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you’ll be with me next friday, one to two p, m eastern on talking alternative broadcasting, but talking alternative dot com. I didn’t think that dude is a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life. We’ll answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me. Larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me. Very sharp. Your neo-sage. Tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Talking dot com.

132: InteGREAT Communications And Marketing & PRI: Program Related Investments – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Diane Lansing, president of Lansing Associates.

Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research and author of “Panning for Gold: Find Your Best Donor Prospects Now!”

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com

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Durney hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. What a coincidence that i found the show. I haven’t said that for a long time. I hope you’re with me last week i’d feel terrible if it came to my attention that you had missed press pause. Juliet funt is a consultant to fortune one hundred companies and a motivational business speaker. She wants you to make time in your life for white space, you’ll be less stressed, more creative, sleep better and be more productive. Your relationships will flourish. She has a kid’s version that we talked about also she’s, the daughter of candid cameras, allen funt and we shared a white space together also divine devices, desktops, laptops, tablets and handhelds. Scott koegler had tips for picking the right device to fit your budget, work style and personality. He’s, the editor of non-profit technology news and our regular monthly tech contributor that was an archive feature, which means an oldie but a goodie this week integrate communications and marketing. Diane lansing, president of lansing associates, has ideas for getting your communications and marketing in sync. Then she wants you to apply analytics, so you know what works and what doesn’t in the short and long term? Sounds simple, but are you doing it? Diane will get you started. We’ll talk about all that and p r i it’s, not particle resistant influenza it’s, not public radio international and it’s, not personality related insomnia, no it’s programme related investments, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder maria simple is with me to explain why foundations don’t only make grants, some offer loans, loan guarantees, equity investments and other pr ise how do you find these foundations? That’s what we’re going to talk about? And she also has info on prospect research company princes that you’ll want to pay attention to between the guests. Antony’s take two it’s my blog’s this week is talk about gift annuities and that’s what i’ll do on take two my pleasure now to welcome diane lansing she’s, president of lansing associates in new york city. She has over thirty years of strategic marketing and communications experience. She started smiling when i began this introduction that’s lovely, she advises on how best to take advantage of new media to attract new donors and advocates to build loyalty and to provide value and information to donors and prospects. I’m glad that her practice and her expertise brings her to the studio. Diane lansing. Welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here this morning. Pleasure to have you. Communications and marketing should be in sync and we’ll talk about sinking them. But how are they different? What? Yeah. How do we distinguish thes? Often the marketing function is designed to think strategically about where we can go, what we can do to increase our our membership, our donor base art sponsorship and the communications people sometimes air left in the sort of functionary aspect of just printing materials or putting things up on a website that may not be is organized and is driven by the overall mission and purpose of the organization as well as its new directions. They could be a little bit sometimes behind the curve. I see less of it. Today is frankly, financial pressures are causing many organizations to combine the two and that’s good that’s. Good that’s. A good thing, because that now they’re all singing out. Same sheet of music. On the other hand, i also see organizations where these even combined functions are not is properly in sync with the organ, what the organization’s doing as they can be. What does that look like when they’re when they’re not sing? A really good example is ah major museum here in new york city has a wonderful gift shop that has absolutely no relation to the exhibits that are going on in the building. They just sell stuff branded with their their identity barely even though it’s ah it’s ah ah ah, i assume an outsource project, but whoever runs it doesn’t even take a look at what’s going on in the exhibit space that they could basically back end on so that it would increase their sales. What happens when the marketing let’s say they are two different people in charge of each of these two different areas? One is more senior than the other, like one maybe is a vice president and the other is a director. How do how does the director get the attention of the vice president and, well, the other the other way around? Wouldn’t it wouldn’t be trouble, but how does the lower echelon person get the attention and and buy-in of the of the more senior person oh, i think that this is a wonderful opportunity for someone who’s looking to advance their own career, come up with a good idea and show why it works. It’s a very unusual boss that won’t take advantage of that because it works to everybody’s advantage, and so then you may have to get buy-in from from above, you may have to, but none of the things what makes all of this whole these holder direction so interesting is that they’re basically free. This isn’t something you have to get a lot of people to sign on for because they’re expensive, the kind of things we’re talking about now tweaking communications that air you sent out by elektronik media using analytics cost virtually nothing, right? But the’s tweaks sometimes in organizations where there’s micromanagement from the board, the cookies that’s the worst. Where it’s the board which convenes, you know, once a quarter at best, but it could even be from the executive director ceo. I mean, how do we deal with those kinds of pressures from people who are above but not as skilled as us? I think the really good news is that the kind of things we’re talking about this morning, especially analytics, are a way to show to demonstrate to anyone peers, superiors, boardmember sze anybody, the growing effectiveness of new campaigns and new strategies and techniques that you’re using in your organization so you can not just you don’t have to diss present an idea that i think this would look really nice if we did this. You can say we pilot tested this last month and look it we did it method a got these results method b got those results plus twenty percent, so we’re suggesting we do more of method be okay if you can if you can back up your ideas with obviously with quantitative, exactly and next and that’s the beauty of analytics to that not for profit world big corporations used to try to quantify the effectiveness of their marketing efforts, which is not always easy to do. It’s not easy to tie brochures and mailers, and whatever into what happens to the sales, the ultimate sales at the end of the day. But now, with analytics, you, khun really track how many people are paying attention to you and then you could look at what happens to year enrollment, your donations, all of the factors that matter to your organization and not only can but ought to be, because there’s so money there’s so much i see happening in charities where it’s it’s a legend or it’s wives, tales or it’s, you know, it’s, just the conventional wisdom, but we’ve always done it this way, right? That’s it? Yeah, i mean, you see that i’m sure you see that in your practice all the time. Okay, do you find people then resistant or welcoming to the idea that we’re actually going to test and see whether your conventional wisdom is correct? I think it’s two points, what i see is that initially there’s a little resistance because people look at, oh, my goodness, people will be able to see that what i’m doing wasn’t as effective as we hoped. I don’t see it that way. What i suggest is doing things a couple of different ways to be able to show management you’re bored anybody that is concerned about your area, that this method produce better results than that one. What you’re using analytics for and all of the information. That you could gather is to help guide your choices and how you spend your time and your money. And when you do that everybody’s backing you, there’s no loser here, everybody wins duitz okay, i just have to make that case you didn’t. And that’s what analytics helps you do. Ok, well, we’ve been talking around analytics so much, right? So i get a sense of how we make the case internally. I mean, understand on dh what it looks like when marketing communications are in sync. Now, let’s apply some of are some of the analytics. What? Well, how do we decide what we should be measuring? What are what are key numbers? What are key numbers are the key numbers that you want to look at first? Well, they’re two basic areas that you should be checking one is if you’re using email blasts, which most organizations do do, regardless of what you’re using, what system or what company you use, whether it’s, your website, host, or whether it’s, an independent company like constant contact, they provide instant feedback on every day. How many people will look at your email? Looked at what you set out its called the click through rate the ctr for short, they will tell you very quickly what kind of response you got if you send something out to five hundred people and only fifty, open it up. That’s a good indication that you may need to change your subject line may need to change some way that you’re appealing to your audience. Subject line is interesting. I mean, you could there and it’s an easy way to test, right? Just do some simple a be testing on absolute varieties of subject line. Talk a little about the really indict first of all segments was not my idea. It’s a brilliant idea that i’ve heard it all. Thank you. One of the things that we can do now again that this frees you, khun segment your your audience by age by interest. Separate donors from members separate sponsors from donors so that you can send out various tweak to messages to different groups and you can identify what’s working in each one. Send them out on separate days and the track than the follow-up and the click through rate for each group. You can see how you effectively you’re reaching each group. With whatever you’re reaching them with, you can even pilot test a single group and sent to different message. It is to a small segment of that group day one day to see if one subject line got a better response than the other. If one was more attention grabbing than the other, that begins to help. You formulate the kind of things that are getting people’s attention. So they want to read what you sent them. All right, lots of variables that were juggling, and we’ll get a chance to talk about more those after we go away for a couple of minutes, diane lansing will stay with me, and i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improved your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna time to send live listener love new york, new york, new bern, north carolina. Massapequa park, new york. Welcome, where’s. The united states of america does s so far that so that’s. What we’ve got in the in the u s of a and massapequa park. I know, i know. Massapequa park. Well, because it’s on the babylon line and i take that line to a client. So i listened to that recitation of ah, of cities. Seaford, massapequa, massapequa park, amityville co. Paige lindenhurst on babylon. I think so, your honor, i know you’re on that line. I think i think i got that right. But i know you for more than long, alan railroad. I used to have a friend who lived in massapequa park. We don’t think that the long alan town’s air represented only by railroad stations. How crass would that be for? For a centered new york self centered gross new yorkers to think we have. Ah, good live listener love abroad. Seoul, korea, seoul, korea on yo haserot and japan. We don’t know what city in japan, though, i guess japan konnichi wa back with diane lansing. And we’re talking about integrating communications and marketing, we have all these variables age maybe, but even without that subject line, purpose of the communication, all the different ways of wording, whether we’re going to use email or one of the maybe the social networks or we’re going to put something on our blogged i mean, we talked about i mean, how do you how do you how do you test all these different things? I mean, there’s there’s so many different combinations. Well, why don’t we take a real example? Let’s say your organization is going to have a fundraising event for all of your younger members? You’re going to have a fund run in the park for them, you could easily take a basic message about that, and you could tweak it for the kids who were going to sign up to do the running. Another message for their parents, which by encourage them to get a couple of other siblings involved or a couple of neighbors and friends. You could tweet the message further for all of your all your donors and another one for sponsors who are providing the t shirts and whatever each of them showing what this what? This organization what? Is about and what this event is for what it means for your organization, what it means for each of the groups that your tailoring your message to and then within each of those groups where we could have different, we can have different tests exactly. So for the kids, we can have test different ways of wording as well a subject line, something for the parents, right? You could do that depending if this is a big do, we don’t want to have all these things that too cumbersome and occasionally it’s worth taking, you know, ten or twenty of your members make a little separate group and do two different versions on day one and day two for just just this the donors and then do two different versions for the kids who might sign up on day one or day two. So before you go with a hole, the whole big announcement of this nationally for or citywide wolber bigger organization is you’ve got a sense of which subject line creates the buzz that gets people to open your me mail and then see what you’re doing and then in your email you, of course want tohave. You’re setting up on ongoing dialogue that hopefully people will follow through the event and its aftermath. So you’re getting various levels of excitement about the event itself, drawing more people in and one way you do that is you keep referring people to your website, where there’s more information that allows him to sign up online. You refer them to your social media, your facebook page, where there are photographs of people who are starting to prepare for the event, and then after the event again, you use all of these. Each of these various avenues can be used to direct people to other sites so they could get more photos of the iran and the winners at the end on the facebook page. There’s a wonderful big group shots of everybody on your website you get people used to being familiar with all the ways that they can basically link into what you do and who you are. The analytic tools will often tell you where someone came from. Exactly what what was that? Some of them called referring agent s o you know what you are l they came from or eso where they came from your block to your facebook page or maybe an event landing page to your facebook page or vice versa, you know, write exactly now some of these air a little bit, depending on where, how much analytics you want, the basic services are free, okay? The basic ones from google and your email blast systems are going to be free. They all provide that email blast systems like constant contact, contact chimp male male children, his chip male banana banana chip mail. I don’t know harry apes of area out of area b middle marketing and they’re all there and they are they’re all very good when you get into your website hosts our and also google, which is an other sorts of very good analytics. They all provide premium packages where a different levels of price points you could kind of move up the scale and get more and more detailed analytics. You could also get people in their organization who will work with you under outta hand hand basis. Most organizations, the not for profit world needs probably not too much of that. Okay, so you think you’re free stuff is going to give you all a lot of most the free stuff is wonderful just start with that you’re going toe, you can play with that and learn so much from that. How does all this feed into our marketing plan that we hopefully have in place? You’re actually, you should be looking at the kinds of results since you get and you should determine that, you know, those regular emails that we’ve been sending out really aren’t getting much attention, but the alerts that we send teo through a facebook our is in our organization is actually getting better, and then we’ll figure that out for the analytics, which we’re going talk a little about short term, we’ll get there, but how does this feed into your longer term marketing plan? Because what you’re really doing now is you’re not changing what the organization is going to do. You’re simply changing the ways and hopefully evolving the ways that you can most effectively reach each of your stakeholder groups by using information that you learn over time on who responds to what which kind of things engaged in the most that’s, where you’re going to spend your marketing time, that’s, where you’re going to spend the effort. In drafting content, organizing it and sometimes snail mail really is valuable most of the time that you may just find that some things get different response and that’s where you want to spend your budget dollars and your time. Okay, so then that so then those conclusions go into the marketing. Exactly. Okay, what we say is each year we learned last year that this that we did worked really well, so we’re anticipating in this coming year, we’re going to do more of that, and we’re going to cut back on our budget that we used to spend on thus and so, because it really wasn’t getting where we weren’t really getting our money’s worth from that, and then you take that information to the board and say exactly, we’re not squandering the money where our marketing budget is actually pretty, well sophisticated, right? We’ve learned and here’s what we’re here’s what we’re doing in reaction to what we learned exactly we’re targeting our every dollar in every minute of our time is effectively is we can based on everything we learn let’s digress a little more into the marketing plan because this is a big part of your your work? What else would just you know what else belongs in a marketing plan? Oh, my goodness. It’s hard to quantify in a single way because of the not for profit world is so darn big and it covered so many organizations, but i think the ah, everybody now is also scrambling for how do we go after scarce dollars? And we’re all seeing that a lot of people have tightened their wallet aunt since two thousand eight and even with things getting better, it’s not there, not loosening up quite a cz muchas i no, my clients would like to see them loosen up. You’re probably seeing the same thing in your client’s, tony, i think thie what i see is that just the ability to show the board that you were using this information and you’re being this intelligent was likely to open up some doors for you within the organization to use what you’re learning even more broadly than you have in the past. You’re finding ways to reach people that your earlier stuff just didn’t get through to. And i think the marketing plan really disney’s to quantify how you’re going to spend your time and your money. How are you integrating all of the avenues? You have to reach people, not only your current members, but now how can you build on that? To reach a larger audience of people who are not already involved with you? This frees up. Then once you learn how you reach your own people most effectively, this helps i challenge you and also helps direct you and how to spend your money to reach new public fired-up squiring new people. Exactly. Find out a lot of your prospects. Come from your blogged or your youtube channel thing and then direct than direct people there. And obviously, direct your efforts in that area in terms of acquisition requiring new in terms of acquiring new people, you can get your you can put out pitch to have all of you. If you’re finding that certain of these are our new and really interesting, you can put out a little pitch to all of your supporters, too. Bring a friend to an event or forward this to that’s. Another key thing both in all the e mail blast systems offer that they should, and you should take advantage of it. You should hyperlink to everything that that you do hyperlink to your website, hyperlink to your social media pages, and then all of those have an ability to forward share with there’s some whatever the wording is in the company that you’re using and encourage your members to do that. That’s you’re the best marketing tool you have people who already believe in you everything, i’m share it with their for exactly, and this is something again that we didn’t used to have the ability to do at all all but which all of these venues now open up for you for free, and then the individual person is talking to their friends, saying this cause means a lot to me, you know, check it out and and this fund run was come join me. This is a lot of fun. I went last year, it’s a blast, you’ve got personal referral combined with a message that you now know because you’ve tested it, you know, works. We’re talking about integrating your marketing in your communications. Diane lansing is president of lansing associates, which you’ll find at lansing l a n s i n g associates dot com lance is a ah is a weapon to spear lying again, lance a boil, but really that’s that’s gross. But lance is something else. As in a species disappear, it’s not a story fear point it is it’s a long it’s a long weapon of war. Yes, you didn’t. You don’t want to be in the wrong end of it is the idea. So you’re lansing, you’re out. Have you thought of this? I don’t know, lance. I’m obviously your name. You’re out lansing, new constituents. We’re not we’re not. We’re not killing them, but we’re just wounding them enough. No, we’re not even. We’re just lansing them to bring them in. We’re hooking him. Yeah. It’s a it’s. A targeted lance. Right. Talking to lansing event. All right. I actually did the entomology on my name, and they actually think it comes from something as pedestrian. Is that somebody had a a potato field? It was the shape of a lance point back in the netherlands. Yeah. It’s really built entomology. I like that word. Entomology way. Don’t say entomology, because that would be reasonably setting ants on dh critters. Ah, little crawly bugs. All right, let’s, go back to the analytics and we want to break down short term and long term. What is your what can we be studying? Short term. Okay, the short term thing is i say, when you do a little pilot test, say you do a little take a small number of your stakeholder groups, all of them together, or even just some of the key groups that you want to try and send a couple of variations to them on two different days and see what happens. That’s the short test and you find which kind of things are working, but begin to track over time over a year’s period. Look at which things one versus which things law and when the time of day exact day of the week, most people will it’s not there most of the time, wrong? No, no email system would tell you that the best time to send out any kind of a blast email is tuesday, wednesday, thursday. Ah, you will get a much hyre read rate then you will on a monday morning when people come into their office on dh look at this huge long list they don’t, you know you’re much more likely to just to get eliminated right off the bat. Okay, so much better to do your emails. And tuesday, wednesday thursday and friday’s people just don’t stop caring about their gone. Yeah, they’re off to the beach, but then, over time, keep start track your records look at the kinds of messages kind of subject lines that air grabbing people’s attention look att and clearly some events are automatically going to be a draw, bigger audience, your annual event, whatever that is, we’ll automatically draw much hyre click through rate than than just a normal announcement, but even you can track and see how different ways of word in your normal, just a little update what kinds of things pete people’s interests, what kinds of things they’re working for you and over time you’re going to get it if you track it and keep, you know, really record what you did. What? What was the loser this week? Which one? Which one won? Was there a material difference? You’re going to begin to see patterns of the ways that people are most attracted to your organization and what you’re trying to tell them. Okay on dh and longer term, longer term. Again, you just know bill down the cumulative experience of the short term things, okay? And all these variables i love playing with age and interests and subject and what channel we’re using, what what network, what outlet we’re using for different purposes all really very interesting, and the other side is don’t go nuts with us. I mean, if you’re an organization with, you know, two billion dollars budget that’s, something different, most not-for-profits we’re looking for general ideas here of what can be helpful to you, there’s no there’s a point where there’s kind of diminishing returns after at some point you khun spend so much time wrapped up in the technology that you kind of lose sight of you lose the forest for the trees, and so i’m all for analytics, but also use them wisely, but use them, use them, smarties them intelligently. All right, tell me what it is you love about the work that you’re doing for non-profits oh, i just i’ve been in this field for probably thirty something years, and i work across the fields, from social services and cultural to religious and civic organizations, and i just love working with the people who are as passionate as they are about the issues they care so much about, you know, it just it’s it’s firing to me every day, and how do you see that what you’re doing is helping them? Because particularly in this time of resource is being really strapped. I like that we’re helping them to find new ways to appeal to donors and help them open their wallets a little more and that’s the primary focus of what we do, okay, all for very important cause is absolutely right. Diane lansing is president of lansing associates in new york city, but she works around the country and again, you’ll find them at lansing associates dot com diane, thank you very much. Thank you. What a pleasure. We’re going to go away for a couple of minutes and when we come back it’s tony’s take too. I’ll talk a little about gift annuities. And then maria simple, our regular prospect research contributor joins me and we’ll talk about those pr ize particle resistant influenza. No provoc programme related investments. Stay with us. You didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink dink you’re listening to the talking alternative network get in sting are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re going invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Durney got more live listener love taipei, taiwan, kunming, china gone jal, china, shanghai and beijing, china to all of you. Ni hao and torrance, california joined us torrents welcome. Glad to see some california representation. There almost always is torrents. How are you doing out there? Tony’s? Take to my block this week is talk about gift annuities. Ah, this is really only for charities that offer that type of planned gift on the block. I have ways of opening the conversation about that that way of giving long term, um just to acquaint you with it, it’s something that is irrevocable dahna makes their gift and they get income back for life at a fixed rate and when they have died than what remains is a gift of cash to the to the charity that was sponsoring the charitable gift annuity program. So who do you talk to about thes usually you talk to people who are sixty five and over and within that age range, there are some clues that you listen for that could reveal a good prospect like i need mohr income or i’m supporting an adult child or i’m supporting a sibling because the income from a gift, annuity doesn’t have to go to the donor it usually does, but it doesn’t have to i’ve set them up where it was parents creating the gift annuity paying income too. The case i’m thinking of his daughter’s, three different daughters, so if you hear that someone is in need of income or they’re concerned about income, or maybe they’re concerned about income in the future in their retirement years, there’s a variation on the gift annuity that khun help that person also. So those air some of the clues and i have ah, little more about that on my block on the post called talk about gift annuities um, now that you have your specs, what do you start to say to them? And i have some examples of simple ways, plain language explain the features of a gift annuity so that people will understand them. And there’s a said more about that on my block at tony martignetti dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday eighth of march, the tenth show of the year. We’re in double digits now already. My goodness, maria simple. Are you out there? I am here. I know you are marie simple is the prospect finder she’s a trainer and speaker on prospect research. Her website is the prospect finder dot com her book is panning for gold. Find your best donorsearch now you can follow maria simple on twitter at maria simple. We’re talking this month about pr ise it’s not personality related insomnia, it is programme related investments. Maria, what are these things? So they’re very interesting tools that are being used by foundations to be able to help non-profits as well as social enterprises as well. So they are not completely limited e-giving on ly to the non-profits sector, but it’s a way for them to continue to support the sector. But there is a repayment of that money once you receive it from the foundation. So it’s not like an outright grant that a foundation makes which obviously does not get repaid. So this is an opportunity for them. Tio, do some additional mission investing, if you will in organizations. So this is much more entrepreneurial. I think so. Yes, absolutely. It is much more entrepreneurial. Many people really kind of look at it as a loan from the foundation. Very low interest. You know, one of the one of the basics really to them is that they have to be below market rates, so sometimes there there could be xero interest associated with it or very low in just associated with that particular loan. Ok? And i think these fall under the rubric to of social investment, social engagement, but in a financial way. That’s, right? That’s, right? So, you know, you know, like grant, they’re they’re made for charitable purposes, right? But unlike grants, they’re expected to be repaid, often with at least a modest financial gains, and they cannot be made for the primary purpose of financial gain. So again, they did no. The below market rate, for instance, right, has to be below market rate. And the foundation also has to make sure that they’re making that that p r i to an organization that really falls within their their overall mission and goals of the foundation. So it can’t be something that really falls outside of it at all. Okay, so you know your where was talking about prospect research? How are we going to find foundations that will do these types of alternative investments in your work? Well, actually, one of the best tools that i found to be able to research this is through the foundation center. So for your listeners, who might be subscribed to the foundation, direct directory online or have access to it at one of the either in new york or at one of the co operating collections, if you search that online database, uh, program related investments is actually one of the categories that you can actually search upon in that particular database. So it’s it’s, pretty useful t use that database for it. So in terms of what i’ve been able to come up with, i think that might be sort of the best and easiest in this time, because you can search on that key word. Okay, let’s, let’s explore the cooperating collections that air throughout the country. We’ve talked about them before, but its been many months just remind listeners what those are and and how they could find them. So you would really want to find out what closest one is tea, your non-profit organization. Geographically, you can go to the foundation center’s website, which is foundation center, dot or ge, and check out their cooperating collections. Link to find out where the closest one is teo to your facility and then and then you can use it for free, right? Yeah, yeah. You go on site to a cooperating collection. You can use it for free there. Uh, so, you know, you might save some significant money on prospect research by going, you know, making usually what i’ll say to non-profits is. Look, if you have zero dollars to spend on the foundation research making a point at least quarterly to visit that cooperating collection and spend some time there really researching that resource, they also have training now, right? Is that the case and all the cooperating collections? There’s training that’s free on how to use the foundation center tool. You know, it might vary from site to site in terms of what they have for training. But i can tell you this in order to become a foundation center. Cooperating collection, their own reference. Librarians have to be well versed on how to use the products there. So you could always get someone on one help. I’m sure from that reference library. Okay, even if it’s not formal training, right. Exactly. Exactly. We’re good. We’re going to say something else. No. Good. Okay, well, just that foundation center. I wonder why why they chose to spell it. C e n t e r and not c e n t r e i would have added a little cash, eh? I don’t know a little elegance if they’ve been foundation center cnt ari, but i don’t want to confuse listeners. They don’t spell it that way, just as a little panache to it, you know, like theater tr ee now, i want to tell you about another website real quick that i thought was really good to learn a little bit more about this whole arena. Really, it was it was great for me in terms of just general education, um, there’s a network of foundations that that are currently doing pr ise it also are considering getting into it and its mission investors dot or ge so they do have a database, but you have to be a member to search the database, so not so useful, but what they did have was a free webinar as well as downloadable slides that you could take a look at that really kind of goes threw a very nice overview of what this whole area is. So, you know, if you’re just looking for some general education about the arena of programme related investments and whether or not you might be a good fit to approach a foundation, i thought that website was really a good one, and i’ll make sure that i give that to your listeners on your social media outlets, okay, that’s, the lincoln and group and the facebook page. Why did you just say the girl one more time? Mission investors dot org’s. So m i s s i o n investors dot org’s. And then i did ask the foundation center. You know, you can often just get into a chat. What the fear listeners aren’t aware of that you can chat with pendant foundation center representatives online, so i wanted to kind of really hone in on well, what section of the irs? Nine ninety report would we even find these listed on? Right. So if you’re trying to figure out well, now the nine. Ninety of the foundation. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? You know what? What, paige, would they be? List non-cash actually gave me the exact page. That what one could find those on so they have it on. The details are located on part ten b and it’s actually entitled summary of programme related investments that’s outstanding that you could get that kind of support. Do you have to be a subscriber to the foundation center database to get that online chat support? No, you can just go online and ask away your questions so i knew that this was a general enough question that i could ask that, you know, didn’t involve, you know, getting into a paid database that they could at least point me in the direction for what page of the nine ninety this this information is housed on. So, you know, for those of you who maybe have nine nineties that you’ve been looking out of foundations, that is the particular area you want to look at on the nine ninety filing, okay? I just think it’s amazing that they were able to answer that question for you. Did they say what? Let us they say, let us research it. Well, we’ll e mail you back or did it come to you during the in the midst of the live chat? I just had a way couple minutes while they came up with the answer, and then they just chatted it back to me and they, you know very nicely. Email you a transcript of your chat. Excellent. Ok. That’s. An outstanding free resource. Excellent record. Is there another resource that you like? You know, you’re the doi end of dirt. Cheap and free resources. Eyes there. Another one you have for investigating these pr i foundations? Well, they did come out. The foundation center themselves came up with a pretty good report a couple of years ago. And it’s a little bit dated. It came out in twenty ten and so some of the data is from, you know, the mid to thousands, but they really give a nice example of who the largest pr i providers are. So they give foundation names how much money they invested that year. So, for example, you know, they give you those top twenty five. I was surprised to see that in two thousand six, two thousand seven, they did almost seven hundred thirty four million dollars buy-in programme. Related investments. And that was just the top twenty five on dh, can you? Give us a sample of what some of those top twenty five are the names that we’d recognise. Yes, some of them really are ford foundation, david and lucile, packard macarthur, bill and melinda gates, walton family. But see any casey foundation okay, all very big, very big, mainstream, well known foundations, right? Right? And i think really, they’re they’re they’re probably the ones that are actually sort of the trail blazers with this and really are taking the lead and other smaller foundations i think are kind of watching them and saying, you know, maybe this is something we consider doing as well. One of the things i didn’t mention is that when they make a programme related investments let’s say a foundation decides to do a million dollar pr i that counts toward their their five percent that they’re required to pay out. Okay, it does all right, even even though they’re getting some money back or they may or may not think that they can count it in there, you know, again, it has to make sure it’s all lies in their mission and etcetera, etcetera. But, you know, i thought that was that was pretty good. Tto learn about and that be good for non-profits to know going into this, okay, any other advice around pr prospect research? Now, i think that, you know, that’s just a really good general overview for you also, if anybody is a listener that is related in lobbying activities, that is the one area that they can’t, um, that they can’t get involved in, so they’re not allowed teo fundez anything having to do with any kind of lobbying? Okay, well, five oh one c three the one thing that you know non-profits you need to be aware of on dh five oh one see threes, which i think is most of the listeners can’t be involved in lobbying anyway, or only really, in very, very narrow ways, but not even not even in ways that that turned out to be defined as lobbying under the internal revenue code. But i talked with jean takagi and emily chan about that subject months ago. There are regular legal contributors were goingto go away for a couple of minutes, and when we come back, marie and i will continue talking not about pr ize, but about conferences that’ll be valuable in your prospect research. I want to send a little live listener love spring rove, pennsylvania jamaican, new york. Welcome, more more from the u s you guys were a little late. Try to try to check in on time next time hey to admonish listeners, but please, uh, try to check in and try to be on time. One o’clock is when it starts, but now live listener love out, tio, pennsylvania and new york there. Zurich, switzerland. Welcome and mexico city, mexico live, love, live. Listen, love to all of you. We’ll be back very shortly. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back and i’m getting a language lesson on our break. More live love tio zurich, switzerland. Guten abend. I hope i’m saying good evening now i know i’m saying good evening. Guten abend, mexico city, mexico. Holacracy. Cleveland, ohio. Thank you for joining us. Even you came in even later than spring rove, pennsylvania in jamaica, new york, cleveland. We start to show one one o’clock eastern. Tryto try to be timely. Please welcome cleveland, ohio. Welcome. Um okay, maria. Some some prospect research conferences now, let’s. Start with somebody though. Who’s. Not a professional prospect. Researcher. Maybe the maybe it’s, even the executive director or it’s someone who’s part of their time is spent in prospect research. Is it worth going to aa prospect research conference for people like that? You know, i think it might be actually i know that in my early years of doing prospect researches and focusing in this area, attending these conferences was really invaluable to may of and so they actually now include. For example, one of the conference is coming up in august for the association of professional researchers for advancement. Apra is known as actually have a new researchers symposium. That they’ve built into the conference, which is for people who have less than two years experience. So that would be great for a novice, a person who, you know, wants to get to know a little bit more about this whole thing. This whole area, especially that’s, one of the half they have to wear at theirjob, andi, even if okay. So even if they’re not a full time provoc but researcher that’s, right? That’s, right? Yeah, they get a lot of great information. And, you know, sometimes the best the best information has learned outside of sessions. Right? So interacting with other people, connecting with someone else that might be in a similar type organization as you are and really being able to exchange ideas of well, you know, how are you spending your time doing research? And what resources do you find valuable to subscribe to? What are you using for free? I just find that a lot of that learning goes out, goes on outside of sessions. I have a special warm spot in my heart for apra because the apra greater new york city chapter many years ago was the first place where i spoke. In public first public speaking about really about planned e-giving yeah, work, yeah, i don’t know how many years ago it was, i don’t know thirteen or something, but doing playing, giving for fifteen years somewhere around there on then and then that turned into speaking at the mid atlantic regional conference or mark on i spoke there once or twice, i might have done that, that one i think i did to mark conferences and that one’s happening today. I know mark is going on right now right now. Virginia so it’s too late for you don’t don’t try to join that one now, because if i think back, i know i disappointed, i thought, oh, i should affect this particular segment up. Tio january will know that there are other parts of the country marine let’s not be so geo centric. Exactly. So let’s, talk about appa unconference because they’re coming up in august. That is that’s the biggie, right? So that’s the biggest one and they bring in people even from other countries come to this one and that’s august seventh through tenth in baltimore, maryland okay, so that’s one that that people can kind of put on their calendars and they will have a tte the international conference. They will have the novice this not-for-profits don’t have the up new researchers symposium will be taking place there at that particular conference, so that seems to be pretty well set. Lots of information on apperance website share that girl with you now, and i will also put it on the on your social media. But it’s a p r a home dot org’s, apra home dot or ge? I think so obviously somebody some other organization must have gotten apurate dot or ge? I don’t know, i have a feeling i’ve not ever tried looking for that girl, but that must be what happened. I just have this one bookmarked, i wonder if that’s like anesthesiologists in puerto rico association or something that you never know somebody took ap pro dot org’s, but so don’t go toe tapper, dot, org’s, goto, aperol, apra, home dot, org’s okay and that’s, where you’ll find information about the international so that you know that one is definitely one to consider. And if you’ve not visited baltimore, maryland before a very nice area tio go visit in the waterfront and so forth. So a couple of others on the radar screen coming up in april up in cambridge, massachusetts, it’s the new england what they call nedra new england were doing officially known as development research association. So some of the apa chapters twenty seven of them across the country, some of them are really big and really kind of have their own, like mark, right? So they have their own conferences, so nedra does the same. They’re going to be april twenty ninth and thirtieth in cambridge, massachusetts, and that website is nedra and gdpr a dot org’s. But basically all of these also just be found on apurate website. Okay, anything that’s, not east coast. Come on, i’ve got a well listeners in torrance, colorado. Torrance, california. Okay, we’ve got cleveland, ohio came in california has one going on june twenty six twenty seven. I’m sorry. June twenty seventh and twenty eight in long beach. Okay on. And they’re known as cara the california researchers. So they’re having their you fudged on that a little bit. We don’t know what karen really stands for. It isthe going to the web site as we speak. California advancement researchers. Okay, there. We go, i don’t, you know, i’m keeping your e-giving your feet to the fire. I know for john had waiting for me, okay, so they’ve got their own event going on and, you know, find a chapter near you and just to find out what events i mean, some of them will have monthly meetings, are meeting every other month, the’s chapters. So i mean there’s, twenty seven of them across the country, so you can just always hook up with one of those chapters and see what regional learning opportunities there, maybe on that that’s where i actually first started speaking on this prospect research topic was at my own apra chapter, which existed in new jersey and no longer exists. All right, it’s, very fitting that way. The last one you gave. I was in california because gonzalez, california just joined us. Gonzalez. I hope they heard it. Gonzalez, welcome. Okay, we have to pretty much leave it there. Maria. Simple. I want to thank you very much for being on again. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. Excellent vice excellent information. You’ll find maria at the prospect finder dot com, and on twitter your you’ll find her at maria simple by maria bye now. Next week, amy sample ward returns she’s, our social media scientist and regular contributor on that subject, and she’s, also the membership director of the non-profit technology network and ten this woman has covered it in another book, social change, any time, everywhere and there’s a good chance. We’re going to be talking about that for the full hour next week. Amy sample ward and she’s also at south by southwest right now in austin, texas, and she’ll have some some notes for us from south by southwest. We’re all over social media. You can’t make a click without sparkle a testa dura smacking your head hard into tony martignetti non-profit radio let’s pick one youtube you could get more on youtube. I have over ninety videos there. Most of them are interviews that have streamed on this show and a few of them. Are my standup comedy gigs so that’s all on my youtube channel, which is really tony martignetti some clown took tony martignetti before i got it to it, so i had to call myself, really? Tony martignetti i’m working on bumping him off, i think he’s in the boston area, if we have any boston listeners, ah, i’d appreciate some help we want to get that i want to get tony martignetti okay, thank you very much for being with me, though whatever social network we might be connected on besides youtube, itunes, facebook, twitter linked in four square pinterest slideshare i’m on all of those. Our creative producer was claire meyerhoff. 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