071: Facebook Fundamentals & Your Fresh-Faced Website – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

John Haydon, principal of Inbound Zombie and co-author of “Facebook Marketing for Dummies”

Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host it’s friday, december sixteenth, two thousand eleven we’re here as always, talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I sincerely hope you were with me last week because if you weren’t, then you missed fund-raising through your life cycle, what does fund-raising look like in the stages of a non-profits life? And how do you avoid the stagnation and decline phases? Jeff sobel principle of jeffrey sobel consulting shared his insights, and that interview was recorded at westchester a f p s national philanthropy day. You would also have missed marrying major and planned gif ts are these two compatible? What do their courtship and marriage look like? Charlie gordy, director of planned giving for harvard law school and margaret hohman principle of home and consulting, revealed how to make this a match made in heaven that was recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning. More important than last week, you’re with me this week, you’re listening live and this week it’s facebook fundamentals john hayden principle of inbound zombie and co author of facebook marketing for dummies is well known as having simple ideas for getting the most from social media, we’re going to talk about getting your non-profit on facebook how to get started had a facebook fund-raising attracting fans, even though they may not be called that anymore technically, and integrating with your other channels also your fresh faced website are regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, scott keggers with me and he’s going to share his thoughts on your freshened up website. When do you need to freshen up? Are you on message? True to mission? Do you have a call to action between the guests on tony’s? Take two, it is my block this week, my next-gen charity interviews part two i interviewed a stand up comic i get my face red and connecting donors to causes these air three of the twelve interviews that i did it next-gen charity conference last month and i’ll talk a little bit about those on tony’s take two, we’re live tweeting the show use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter. This show is supported by g grace corporate real estate services were grateful for gee graces support we take a break when we returned. My guests will be john hayden. And we’ll be talking about facebook fundamentals. So stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s a lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio. Joining me now is john hayden. John, how you doing? Hey, tony, how you i’m doing great, thank you. Jon is calling from cambridge, massachusetts, he’s, the principal of inbound zombie consultants in online strategy and social strategy for small and midsize non-profits that’s the audience here in the u s and canada. He’s, also co author of facebook marketing for dummies and he’s, well known for having simple ideas for getting the most from social media. John hayden, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me appreciate, oh, it’s a pleasure. Um, facebook, why should non-profits pay attention to and be on facebook? Why facebook? Well, the simple answer is that everybody’s on facebook? Okay, um, and regardless of where, you know it’s, not really about the platform it’s about where people are and as you may know and maybe some of our your listeners may know, you know, facebook has about eight hundred million active users, okay? So these are people that actually log in to facebook thirty minutes, three hours a day, they’re checking in on their iphone or ipad on browsers and support and connecting with their friends John 30 minutes 2:3 hours so even at the short end, they’re on average, people are spending a long time on this one place. Yes, exactly. Um, you know, i kind of look at it like the morning coffee routine. You know, maybe thirty years ago, people used to open up a newspaper how people open up facebook and they see they get their news. What what are my friends sharing what’s new in the world today? What’s, you know, whose birthday is it today? You know, things like that, i mean, it’s really a central part of the culture today and so non-profits, you know, just like when the television came out and certain non-profit said, while we need to start doing something for tv in the same way, they kind of need to look at where people are using social media, which is, you know, really facebook at this point. Oh, so you sort of use those anonymously, yeah, so non-profit you know, sometimes i get this question the cheese, social media so many platforms, where should i what should i do it? I said, look, if you’re not doing so. Idiot. All first of all, you know, get your website straight. You know, make sure you get that first, but don’t think about this huge social media thing just think about facebook because that’s really where you should start that’s where your constituents are gonna be guaranteed your volunteers are going to be their donor’s going to be there, not all of them granted, but you know, the majority of them on dh. You know, the fact is that eighty nine percent non-profits air now using facebook, so if you are a non-profit thinking about facebook, you kind of have to look at what your peers are doing. Well, yeah, ok on dh i pulled listeners before the show and thank you very much for for retweeting the the the short link to the pole many times appreciate that on day one of the questions was, does your non-profit have a facebook page so our audience is a little behind the national average? About seventy seven percent said yes on dh. The remainder said no, i better listen to the show so that other twenty three percent or so we’re going to try to convert them we just have about two minutes before the break, so i want to just tease a little bit. How do we just how do we just get started? Get started getting started and then we’ll be out. You and i will be able to spend a lot more time on that after the break. The best place to start is to have a plan, you know, do some research on facebook i actually website called the non-profit facebook guy dot com non-profit facebook id a lot of articles on there, but, you know, come up with a plan and really try and develop a strategy as to where facebook would fit within you’re overall marketing communications fund-raising plan and then you really want to start with a facebook page, okay? And we’ll get to the different types of pages because i know there could be some confusion around that after the break, just in a minute or so. What are the pieces of that strategy or plan? What topic areas should be in there. Okay, so the topic area would be, what are your goals? You know, specific goals? What do you want to be achieving with facebook and it again? It does help to understand what facebook is good at, what facebook is not good at, understand the kind of its role within your overall communication plan, and then the other thing is, you know, what’s going to be your content strategy, what is really unique about your organization, what gets people talking, you know, when you meet people, your supporters volunteers when you meet them and it event and you’re in coffee and bagels together, what is it that gets them really excited? And what do they like? What they like to talk about what they like to share with friends, build a content strategy around that so that you’re pushing out consistent content on facebook, which is really kind of the central central point on facebook? It’s not kind of a static web page it’s really not bad it’s more kind of a living, breathing dialogue that you’re having with your constituents is really the best way to be using a facebook page. John, we’re going to take a break and we’ll get into more detail after this break with john hayden, author co author of facebook marketing for dummies and i hope you will stay with us. I didn’t even think that shooting, getting, thinking things. You’re listening to the talking, alternative network, things, getting anything. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative that calm mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas and an average budget, tune into the way above average. Tony martin. Any non-profit radio ideo. I’m jonah helper from next-gen charity. Buy-in welcome back. We’re talking about facebook fundamentals with john hayden and john. Before we get into more detail about getting started and the different types of facebook pages, i am dying to know why your company’s called inbound zombie. What is that? Okay, so inbound zombie. Quite honestly, i just literally came up with the name, um, and i’ve always been a fan of zombies. Just, you know, zombie movies, and what not, i find it a fascinating read books about zombies on that, and i just felt like, you know, zombie culture will probably be around for a long time. So if i come for the business name, that is current, always be current. You know, and then only after then, you know, maybe like a year later, it started having meaning to me like water, zombies, this idea that you know what i do for a non-profit is kind of create a situation where people come to them like they actually get to a point where they don’t their constituents in their volunteers let’s imagine that they’re like positive zombies that are really smart, they can’t help but come towards the organization they can’t help but be attracted to the organization three using okay, okay, as long as they’re positive zombies, not the ones that are, you know, that have the wrapping dangling off them and their bloody and their eyes were just sockets, you know, as long, it’s, not that kind. No, we’re cool, all right, positive zombies on di did see on twitter that at wild woman fundez mazarene treyz who’s been a guest on the show, she looks so it looks like she spends more like five hours on facebook, so i hope our clients are not suffering mazarene hope your client working, getting done and other important things in your life are being done and maybe just sleeping less. Than the rest of us. Okay, john, what are the different types of pages? There could be some confusion around that the type of page that a charity should set up on facebook. Okay, no that’s a great question. So, you know, common mistake that i see is that, you know, someone will say, oh, you know, i just started i started a facebook page for my non-profit and, you know, how do i get more friends? And so what happens is that sometimes an organization will actually create a facebook profile, which is for the personal use on they’ll be using that for their organization, which is basically a violation of the facebook terms and conditions a and b it’s, not the most effective type of tool to be using. So what i just mentioned, the facebook profile is really what those eight hundred million people eight hundred million facebook users, they’re all using a facebook profile, you know, you share photos with your friends, you check in to facebook places you make a status update, you connect with high school friends, that type of thing, so that’s that’s really meant for a person now, a facebook page or business page sometimes called a fan page, and some people might know it is a fan page that’s really wearing organization wants to be starting, and the best way to do this is to go to facebook dot com metoo polka dot com forward slash pages forward slash create that, not php. Yes, and then you want to pick either a local business or place or a company, organization or institution. These are two different types of facebook pages. There are six types in total, but these two really apply to non-profits a local paper place of business might be a museum that’s a that’s, a non-profit the company organization institution might be say, a foundation that is in a corporate park were really nobody visits then, so you wouldn’t want to advertise that the address and location of the business that much. But, you know, you still want to have a facebook page, so these two different types of pages, okay? And it sounds like for our audience, probably the first of those two is more appropriate. Yeah, local place of business. Um, or you either one. Okay, so what can they do on this? Well, so how do they create the fan page. What should be included in it? Okay, so when you create the fan page, i actually have some videos that you go to non-profit facebook dot com. I actually have a few video tutorials about that. But what they want to do is they want to upload a mean image. John, i’m sorry. Say that you are l one more time that people can go to for the video. Oh, sure. It’s non-profit facebook guy dot com. And then they could just kind of search for it like a little search box. Was that guy guy or guide by, like like you? Why guy? Like a man. Okay, non-profit facebook guy dot com. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And then, you know, when you create the page, you upload a maine and the video kind of walk you through this whole thing, but you want to create. The most important thing is probably creating a welcome tab. Custom welcome. Tab. And the reason why this is important, tony, is because eventually an organization will want to promote the page, you know, through email or however they’re going to have people show up and, like page exactly. Do something on the page. They want to be able to convert the fans, okay? So when someone shows up, they were going to make a decision in less than two seconds, whether they should like that page or not. And, you know, it’s been a few studies on this, but organisations that have a welcome cab, which is basically like, and it could be an image and it’s, just kind of like a good first impression. The example that i always use his dog bless you if you go into facebook in the search dog less you, they have a great example of a welcome tab it’s, just a picture of a dog and it says, god bless you and that’s it. And then, you know, the implication is like the page, and they have well over two hundred thousand likes exactly. Yeah, and so, you know, a strategy like this is important. Welcome tab, like it’s important, because, you know, when you have people come to your page, you want to be able to convert them into a fan once they arrived it again, you have less than two seconds. So with welcome tabs will actually convert fans at a twenty five percent higher rate than the wall or the info tap because other to places that you could send new visitors okay? And that example again is dog bless you on facebook. All right, so the welcome tab is important. You’ll convert more people than rather than them coming to the wall. And we’re seeing a bunch of posts as as the first thing they land on. Is that right? Is that basically it? Exactly. Okay, okay, what else can we do? The what other features are are the tabs are there on our on our fan page? Okay, so they have, you know, they have the wall. The wall is really where all the action is going to be, and i’ll get to that in a little bit. But, you know, you have the wall. The info tab. You should fill out the basic information. Don’t go crazy about about the information tap. You really want to just include, like a link to your website so that people can click on that. Read more about your organization, but you don’t want to. You don’t need to provide every single piece of information you tend. You need to know about your organization. People simply don’t read and into a cab that much anyhow. Okay, they’re really going to be interested in what’s happening on your wall. And if they do want more than you’re giving him the link to the website or the blogged t get that additional stuff. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So now, as i mentioned before, you know, facebook facebook page isn’t like a static web page. Okay, what’s what’s really important? About a facebook page is actually the content that you’re that you’re consistently putting on the page. That’s really? What the point is so i often tell people, you know, don’t go crazy with trying to get you page perfect. Just get it out there and start building up a community start attracting people start having people like the paid and so forth. So when you first, you know, create a page, you literally have no one there’s no pans at all. Okay, in the same way that that welcome tab will convert a fan. Remember i mentioned, you know, the welcome tabal convert fans. Yes. The other thing you need to do is you need to kind of acquire a certain number of fans. Because when you first started page, you have xero fans, okay? And tony, i know you live in new york city, right? That’s? Correct. Okay, so, you know, it’s, a new restaurant opens up down the street and you go to that restaurant and nobody’s there that tables are empty. You probably going to be a little hesitant about going into that restaurant? Okay. Okay. So in the same way with a facebook page, you want to, you know, paige admin can actually use a function called invite friends where they can invite their personal facebook friend paige, and you can have a few different administrators on the page, and you could have saved five people who might be an admin of the page and making each asked their own personal friend network first. And where do you find where do you find this, john? Well, it’s, actually on the right hand side of a facebook page once you created okay, once you create facebook page, lincoln invite friends, okay? Okay, by the way, i do have ah restaurant in my neighborhood. It’s a chinese place. It was empty, i went in and i blew it. The food was awful. It was awful. It was a buffet. I wouldn’t touch three quarters of what was there, and then the other twenty five percent tasted bad. So wow, you’re right, c on that’s ah happened recently so you’re your zombie prognostication powers are are are strong today. I’m with john hayden and he’s, a principal inbound zombie and co author of facebook marketing for dummies can we customize tabs john? Or is it only what facebook? Makes available oh, no, you can definitely, you know, and tabs on to face facebook page, you know the welcome tab i mentioned earlier you can create, you know, like an email upton type of tab you can create petitions, you can create a lot of different types of functionality and kind of add those on to your to your facebook page and you can use, you know, if you know html and css, some listeners are very technical they’ll know how to do this, they can figure this out, but for those who aren’t really that tech savvy, which is pretty much ninety nine percent of the time prophet, you know, they might want to investigate some third party applications like there’s, a company called short stack and if you just even if you just sort search for them on facebook, just search for short stack. They have a great application to create these custom tabs, another one that i like his fan page engine fan page engine that’s a great one andan there’s, you know, there’s a bunch of other ones, but those are the ones that i that i consistently use and recommend. Okay, we’re going to move teo using facebook for fund-raising and there’s. An important distinction that you make what? Why don’t you explain what that is? Okay, so fund-raising there’s. A difference between fund-raising the relationship and fund-raising the transaction. Yeah, okay, so the transaction is actually collecting money. Exactly. Collecting the money and facebook is not so good at that. Is that? Is that right? Facebook is not the best way to collect money. Okay, but but it’s a great way to build a relationship weight exactly right. Excellent way to build relationships and nurture those relationships and file a lot of people after they donate. There was some research done by blackbaud i think about a month and a half ago that found that thirty percent of people that donate online, they actually donate through email. Okay, okay, six percent is about six percent of facebook and twitter. Okay, so if you’re a non-profit, you might say, chief, then i shouldn’t even waste my time with facebook, but the fact is, is that a lot of people, when they donate, they don’t just hear about a non-profit for the thirty first time and start donating, they need to kind of get to know the organization that relationship matures, and then eventually they might join an email list on the facebook page and then through that female relationship, then they donate. Okay, so facebook is awesome for acquiring and attracting new donors and developing the relationship with those new fans or connections into ah, donor-centric or a volunteer or whatever that relationship is going to eventually mature into. I pulled listeners again before the show, and one of the other questions was, if you have a facebook page, do you feel it adequately supports your fund-raising? And about sixty two percent i said no, and the other forty or thirty eight percent so said not sure, and nobody said yes, that they feel it adequately supports their fund-raising but there was a comment that i think is right on point with what you’re saying, and that comment was our page supports community and promoting the cause, but does not bring in dollars. Is that? Is that appropriate goal or ah, for fun for facebook? Yeah, i mean, it really is about the relationship it’s about it’s a i think i think organizations again, i think there’s kind of an over focus on like the money, the money, the money, you know? But you have to think about it for your perspective, tony, when you find out about a really cool non-profit you’re not going to donate right off the bat, you probably goingto join their email list and maybe go to a new event and then eventually you’ll donate once and then maybe you sign on as a lifer eventually, no, so facebook is the best tool for creating an enhancing relationships with constituents online because what you could do is you, khun report outcomes on your facebook page, we just we just opened up a new school in this in tanzania and it’s doing really well here’s, some pictures of our students and here’s here’s what they’re learning here’s the picture of the teacher, i mean, you could, you know, photos do really well on facebook, and the more that organization could kind of share photos on their facebook page about what they’re doing, like literally what is the impact that they’re having on the world that motivates people to donate? We have just about a minute and a half left, and we’re sort of getting to this topic so let’s deal with it directly. How do we attract people to our facebook page? Okay, great that’s an excellent question. So a few different things. I usually encourage organizations to leverage the existing their existing assets, so they may have a facebook page would say, you know, three, facebook fans, but they have an email list with three thousand subscribers, they can use that email list to kind of promote their page and then get fans that way. You really have to think about, you know, how you’re writing the email and what and the reasons why people should actually like the page. You want to create a unique situation on the facebook page that gives people a reason to actually like it and stay connected. The example that i’ve used before the m might share behind the scenes footage for kind of putting together an exhibit, so you really can’t get that anywhere else, right? Stuff you can only see if you go to the facebook page exactly. So people need a reason people are reasonable, facebook users are people and most people are reasonable. They want a reason to do something. The other thing that i usually encourage people to do is to try the facebook sponsored stories, which leverages what i would call friends networks on facebook. So if you have five hundred, fans on facebook page by taking out a facebook spot story, you could actually promote that page to the friends of those five hundred people. Okay, the average facebook user has about one hundred thirty friends, so, i mean, just do the math. You can really create a lot of exposure for the page and then collect a lot of fans that way. John, we have to leave it there. Thank you very much for being a guest. Great. Thank you, tony. My pleasure, john hayden. Principle of inbound zombie and co author of facebook marketing for dummies, where you obviously find a lot more ideas. We’ve only had twenty five minutes or so to explore jonah real pleasure. Thank you again, thanks. After the break, it’s, tony’s, take two and then scott koegler with your fresh faced website, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Kayman are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com if dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent it’s roughly thirty two minutes into the hour, which means it’s time for tony’s take two this week. My block post is my next-gen charity interviews part two dahna the show was a media sponsor for this outstanding, really invigorating conference just last month here in new york city, and i got to interview twelve of the speakers at the conference, and i’ve been releasing them three per week, and this is Numbers 4:5 6 so this week there are hi def videos of my interviews with wally collins he’s the author of you never know book of encouragements and he’s a stand up comic and he wants you to live a regret lous life sharon abbott and i talked about positive communication techniques and she actually read my face to determine my communication preferences she looked at the space between my eyebrows and she looked at my upper lip and made some conclusions and i think she was pretty accurate actually on dh then charles best talked about how to connect donors with causes that they are supporting charles best is the ceo of donors choose dot or ge and that’s a sight where classroom teachers post their needs and donors from around the world support those needs, and charles explained how the site connects people from around the world with causes that they may most likely we’ll never physically see, but they’re supporting from a distance. That’s all on my blogged this week at m p g a d v dot com, you’ll find links tau video interviews of each of those three and that is tony’s take two for friday, december sixteenth. Scott koegler are you there? I am here. Tony, how are you? I knew you were because our technology and our producer is outstanding. Scott is our regular tech contributor. He’s with me every month. He’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find at n p tech news. Dot com and we’re talking this week about your fresh faced website. Welcome back, scott. Thank you, tony. Good to be here, it’s. Good to have you. When? When is the right time to freshen up the charity website? You know that’s a great topic, it’s one that i think people would prefer not to address. Because if you look around you see most websites and it’s not just limited to non-profits, but pretty much lots of websites him to not change over time. And that’s that’s a problem. So the answer to your question is, um, probably every day. I probably, you know, okay. All right, well, that’s, because so many sights now are blog’s, right? And that’s exactly the case. Um, people people will come to a website in order to find information. And if they’ve already found the information that’s there, uh, why should they come back? Yeah, so so that’s. Why so many sites are blobs on that’s? Why having a continuous stream of content updates? Um, you know, stuff, no new things to read is important and that’s exactly what john hayden said in the first half of the show about the facebook page. It has to be current relevant, interesting talk about the things that your constituents find exciting so it’s the same with the website it is a lot of a lot of webs are actually the containers for the contents that get published facebook and email newsletters and all those other things on that, you know, that keeps the contents still available for people to see. It also, uh, feeds the search engines. I think we also, since these are charitable works and organizations, we want to make sure that the website is aligned with their mission. Right? Good point and, uh, visions do change over time, especially those who have specific projects that come and go. So they may have won initiative that they’re focusing on for a month or a year, or whatever the period of time is. And hopefully they they succeed in fulfilling that particular initiative and kind of move on. So right, you need to update that. So there’s all these reasons, tio, come back, how do we get people to go? No, if maybe just, you know, for a first time, or if they haven’t been around for awhile. How do we how do we get the word out about the site with a classic way? Of course, email newsletters some kind of announcement that says something has changed, or here’s an update on where we noticed you haven’t been here in a while if you have a pretty good social media presence, whether that’s, facebook, twitter, google, plus or whatever you’re you’re social network media is it’s good with good thing to post updates out there, but i would always coordinate that with the content on the site and some kind of an email presents, okay? And you have some suggestions around getting people teo to sign up for for those email lists using your site exactly. And again, you know, when we say sight, i guess i’m also talking about social media whenever you have an opportunity in social media or on the website or, well, not an e mail, because that presupposes there already subscribe, but certainly use a sign up but on the website little box that allows folks to enter their email address and request to sign up for announcements for email newsletters for whatever it is that you may want to submit to them and you could do the same thing on facebook pages. I haven’t really dove it does that’s, right? We’re dove dived. You haven’t been into it much. Yeah, i haven’t looked much at the at the twitter, where they called the organization pages now organization pages, okay, but with facebook and google it’s entirely possible to put links on those pages that will lead people that are interacting, interacting with the organization there, back to your website to sign up for newsletter updates. Okay, are these the splashes that you see, like you go to some sites and ah, window opens automatically, which you can either fill out or clothes if you want to go right to the site, but is that we’re talking about it’s? Ah, sort that splash page, splash, window opens and sign up there? Well, that’s, one way to do it. Some people get pretty annoyed at that kind of thing, so i’m i’m not particularly advocate of of those things in your face, but depends on your constituency and the people you were looking for. Some people and some or some sets of folks bill, mind that are actually react positively to it. So i would say it’s a situational kind of thing. Okay, on def. It’s not that. How do you do it? So that’s? Prominent. I would put the sign up box on every page so that even a folks are reading a particular article. They’ve moved to another page. That somewhere on there, prominent on the generally on the left, the right hand side of the content. There’s a box. So sign up for our newsletter. Well, whatever your messages that you want them to do and it’s just, you know, eventually it’s something that they get used to seeing. No. And, you know, getting used to saying it is a good thing in the bad thing both because see it too often you kind of it disappears now. So is there enough is their technology that would would know when someone comes to a page? If if they’re part of the email list? I guess not. Right? Um, it was pretty complex. I would just as soon. Put it there, chances are you already have some content, some some items along the left hand or right sides of your content, then maybe advertising or updates, whatever on your website. So having an extra box? Well, that’s a newsletter sign up really? All that truce? Um, okay, and to coordinate a bit with my first guest, john hayden. What about incorporating into the website embedding into the web site the one, those facebook windows where it has the number of likes and somebody khun like right from there? What were your thoughts around that? Absolutely. And there are so many social networks now used to be that you just put your twitter stream along the side. You can also put your facebook update, scream your ghoul composting stream, but certainly you want to include the social media connection items that would be the plus one for google, the like for facebook and the share for twitter. So you should be on every page, every particle of content and how do you actually do? That depends on the platform to using i you know, whether it’s truthful or wordpress or juma or whatever it may be, there are tools. That are available almost for free that you can add to the sight that will just automatically put those in. If you’re if you’re not the programmer that takes care of the site, you’ve asked the people that are in charge, but for them it’s a pretty simple thing. Okay, all right, so it’s very doable, alright, and so these things, they’re all should be connected, and that could be a reason toe freshen up the site like the charity might have now. Ah, google plus organization page or may have become more active on twitter than they were when they first created the website, and they haven’t made these connections between the other properties and their own site. Exactly, and updates don’t have to be huge, another on in fact, they may not need to be or shouldn’t be huge just adding those social media connectors. Maybe one thing to do in one week and adding the sign up page for the newsletter maybe done another week so that they don’t they don’t become huge tasks. They don’t overwhelm people to come back to the safe and something completely different from what they were before, right? And not only that, but within the organization, if it’s, if it’s deemed to be some huge website revision that can be off putting and just, you know, it, it goes, gets pushed away because nobody wants to deal with the vast changes that are necessary, right? Exactly. I think that’s one of the reasons i mean, i hear that a lot, you know, it’s it’s always a monumental task when someone some organization is revising their website and people talk about it like it’s a gala for fifteen hundred people that they have coming in, you know, in three days, and they feel like they’re behind on it. It’s exactly. These things could be overwhelming if your website static just lend itself to being it to display changing content, then it may be time to change the platform. There’s a lot of old html web sites out there that are not really content management systems. They’re not based on wordpress, for instance, and so maybe a time to make that plunge and that that is as you just said, that could be a significant undertaking, but we don’t want that site anymore. That just looks like reads like a brochure, you know? Like a two thousand three website, exactly, the chances are you’re not seeing it. Yep, yep, should we have scott called back in? We’re going to take a break, is breaking up a little bit, should he call back in? Dahna okay, well, no, you don’t need to call back in scott’s, not that bad. Speak up, woman. We returned from the brake, just speak a little bit louder, and scott will be with us, and i hope you will be, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit. You’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community dahna hyre this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcast are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales or maybe better? Writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Talking. Hyre lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. No. Dahna and on the aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio and scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news, and we’re talking about your fresh faced website when different in that up. Um, this is what we’re talking about. Email, how frequently is it? Ok, tio email are our list that this is surprising that of answers to that actually, johnny, you know, to do that nuclear monthly was kind of the norm and, of course, some of the something that is really coming by your budget because they’re all kinds of factors that come into play with costs of sending email newsletters. But that’s, not the question that you asked. Uh, frequency is really dependent on how frequently your topic you’re subject to your content changes and how frequently your leadership wants to hear from you way we’ve got a results of a survey that was done bye male chimp, which is a huge email provider. Yeah used that they found that email frequency as frequently as once per day. There’s not not unheard of. Now you have to understand that those kind of emails are typically the announcement. E mails like daily deal kinds of emails. So maybe a non-profit, uh, typical non-profit wouldn’t have that kind of frequency of updates, but it’s a matter of how much does the reader wants to know and help frequently? Do they want to know it? Ok, yeah, that’s interesting daily deal, of course, you know what, you’re getting there, and then obviously, they have content that changes every day, but then i think of the news sites i mean, i get daily emails from new york times and the chronicle of philanthropy, so yeah, it really does depend on what people are are expecting, i guess, right, exactly there’s also defense on allowing them to change what they get based on their desires. So someone may have signed up for daily and decided that they really don’t want to do what they want us weekly if you don’t provide an option than to change the weekly and their only option is to completely opt out, then that’s not a good thing. So you want to be able to let them choose what they want. Okay, um, how about a a call to action on your on your site? Yeah. Good point. Tony it in any site or any? Email or any news, weather or any actually any social media update. You want to have some kind of called action and whether that’s a sign up for our newsletter or get involved with thirty or, you know, talk to your friends about us, it doesn’t hurt, teo. Add something to that, i guess not every single instance of communication needs to have one, but certainly the website. If you’re looking at the front page of the website, there needs to be something on there that least requests people to take action or reminds them that they were not here. Just presenting information to you really, really want you to do something because as a nonprofit organization it’s our mission to do something, so remind them what that is, and so part of what you could be calling them to act on his become a volunteer. Sure, whatever the your current mission is, become a volunteer um, you know, become a what, whatever it is mentor um, i mean donations, obviously one of the main things that you don’t want to push too frequently, but sure do something i think is really the calm. What about staffing if this website is going to be freshened up, you know, every day or, you know, if it is going to become the block, which is the ideal, how are we going to get the these contributions on such a frequent basis that say on issue that almost every organization that updates there newsletters their websites or their social media on a frequent basis, faces and more and more, we’re seeing people, you know, go to professional sources for that let’s face it people that are running a non-profit if they’re paid staff, they have a job to do. It probably is not writing is not keeping up with social media, so finding sources for that kind of contribution become something that needs to go on, usually outside the organization, and it will be nice if those things were all free. But somewhere along the line, those things need to be paid for whether it’s in staff time where they made, you know, be not working on other tasks that they are actually being paid to do, or if it’s paying professional writers or professional people who do media updates to do that somewhere along the line, you know, somewhere along the line the money has to be spent in order to do that. We have just about a minute and a half left, and so i just want to touch on the new twitter organization pages, which you mentioned briefly up the top of the show top of the segment, but so in just a minute, we have left or so what? What what’s what’s new over a twitter i wish i could tell you more. I do know that they have organization pages, i have to assume that they’re very similar to latto facebook and email, i do know that they have one feature that i haven’t seen in other social media organization pages, and that is the ability to glue or pin a particular topic to the page. Most of the other ones you can see the page and you have the normal school of the updates that are going on, right, twitter apparently it’s it’s possible to take one piece of content and and stick it to the page with stays there, the rest of the flow of content goes on below that, but then you can change that so that becomes more or less a web page i guess okay, well, why don’t we have you back in january? To talk more about twitter organization pages has that sounds good? Give me a chance to actually find out what i’m talking about he’s got koegler is the humble but very well informed editor of non-profit technology news and of course, a regular tech contributor, and we’ll have you back in january to talk about twitter organization pages. Thank you very much, scott. Thanks, tony. I want to thank scott and also john hayden on dh. John tweeted something related to his yeah, what we were talking about on the show earlier on a post that he’s recommending at beth cantor dot or ge slash thanks hyphen em like mike and end like november and demonstrates the role that social media plays in fund-raising and that link from john hayden again is beth cantor dot or ge forward slash thanks hyphen and like mike and like november next week to pre recorded interviews that i have not yet chosen, so i don’t know what’s going to be next week, except they’re going to pre recorded interviews and they’re going to be from one of the three conferences that show media sponsored in october and november, so if you want to know what those interviews are going to be and you want to keep up with what’s coming up all the time, then sign up for our insider email alerts just like scott there was talking about you could do that on the facebook page. Sign up there, or you could go to my blogged m p g a d v dot com and the contact page of the there’s a link there toe, sign up and get the email alerts. If you like the show, i’d be grateful to have your like on facebook. Also, you can listen live our archive you’ve been listening live if you want to go to the archive, itunes non-profit radio dot net non-profit radio dot net will take you to our itunes paige can subscribe there and then listen anytime on your tablet or your phone or your desktop the device of your choice on twitter you can follow me and use the has the show’s hashtag use it unashamedly it is non-profit radio. Our sponsor is g grace corporate real estate services george grace has over twenty five years helping non-profits developed cohesive, confident strategies around rental and owned properties. G grace dot com two one two four, eight, six forty one hundred. The creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff. Our line producer is janice taylor today, and our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. I hope you’ll be with me next week. Friday, one p, m eastern. We’re always at talking alternative broadcasting, which is on talking alternative dot com. You don’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. Dahna cubine xero looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m julie, hi, i’m julia, what are you wearing? Welcome to j and j’s. Secrets of style and beauty. We know there’s, beauty and style, and all you do, whether it’s a job interview, first date or wedding, we also know that not everyone understands what works best for him or her. We’re here to help. Think of us as your personal beauty style and grooming guru’s, as industry experts will give you the best information for men and women on howto look phenomenal. Tune in tuesdays at eight pm tto. Learn how to look your best. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow, no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me very sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Com.

069: SoMe 4 PG & Your Nonprofit In Politics – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Kristen Schultz, senior vice president at Crescendo Interactive

Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Dahna welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me two weeks ago when we had your plan. That was jason hutchins as my guest, he’s, the president of non-profit solutions. And he told you why you need a night plan and what belongs in it. We talked about budget equipment outsourcing the cloud and mme, or to help you avoid an crisis and the goods on google plus pages are tech contributor scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news. He’s on with me once a month, you kicked the tires on the recently released google plus pages for organizations. Should you take one for a test drive? How are they different than facebook pages? And last week i hope you enjoyed your thanksgiving. I hope you did not go shopping on thanksgiving day this week. So me for pg kristen schultz, senior vice president for crescendo, is going to share her research and interview results on the best uses of social media to support your plan to giving program video’s testimonials blogging tech in from technical information and she’s joining us from camarillo, california our next guest on the show is also from california. It’s going to be your non-profit in politics emily chan, one of our regular legal contributors from the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco, identifies the limits around political campaign activity and election earing we’re approaching a presidential election year. What can your non-profit do? And how does the irs decide whether you’ve crossed the line under the first amendment? What can your employees say on tony’s? Take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour my block this week is thank you. There are many things i’m thankful for, and i’ll talk a little about those on tony’s take two. We’re live tweeting this week we have a guest live tweeter manette singleton from atlanta, georgia. Thank you very much, lynette, thanks for joining us. You can follow lynette she’s at s c g for non-profits and that’s a number four and to join the conversation on twitter with lynette’s live tweeting use hashtag non-profit radio this show is sponsored by g grace corporate real estate solutions. We’re going to take a break. And when we returned, kristen schultz from crescendo. So me for pg, stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl. Offset. Two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five, zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hyre hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com oh! Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio, i guess now is kristen schultz. Kristen is an attorney at crescendo interactive. She specializes in online marketing and social media for planned gif ts she speaks widely and is a principal faculty member of gift college christians on the board of the american council on gift annuities and isa boardmember for the partnership for philanthropic planning of greater los angeles, you’ll find her on twitter at crescendo tweet and her planned giving blogger is kristen schultz dot black spot dot com i’m very glad that kristin’s work brings her to the show. Christian schulz welcome tony, pleasure to have you on you did some research and some interviews to try to discover best practices for planned e-giving why don’t you tell us what your methodology was? Yeah, i was receiving questions on social media in my work with plan giving, charity and charities were asking me why my organization use social media were planned gift. Is anyone using these tools successfully? And how much time will this take? And really what they want to know is what is the return on their investment are they going to achieve any result from these efforts? And so i began looking for information in this area and found a lot really on the current giving side, but nothing specifically directed towards certain gifts. So i started to compile my own information i it took a survey and advertise it broadly and receive the numerous examples from charities across our community and began to share those as best practices that they spoke this last year and next year. Well, ok, and how many websites did you look at? How many charities did you hear from? I would say over a hundred different sites, and then i personally interviewed sixteen charities that i thought were the best example i found, and those are the ones i featured in my study, ok? And did those i guess the sixteen since you thought those were the best? Did they cluster around any particular mission? Charitable work? No, they were all different, i would say the majority of securities that are doing social media, our educational institutions in that makes sense because they’ve bought vast alumni networks and they’re already doing that for their students on. So i found a large group in the college and university field, but i have examples that are hospitals and medical centers and community foundations, all different types of organizations, okay, when i think that’s reassuring to charities to know that whatever their mission, they can do well with social media for planned e-giving maybe we should just give a little encouragement a little inducement, perhaps teo be using social media and promoting online giving? Well, obviously that’s an increasing trend right online, giving it is it’s an increasing trend and there’s been tremendous growth in that area there surveys produced by blackbaud, and they do the online giving report on video online e-giving group in two days ten by thirty five percent and at the same time, we’ve seen this rise of social media so there’s this explosion and growth on the web charities air trying to find easier ways to communicate more efficiently and cost effectively, and social media certainly is a place to be. Even if you think it’s a bad your donors or not, there they are, they’re there i looking at pictures of the grandchildren, and they’re on these mediums every day, and so it’s a perfect place to capture their attention? Do you find people who think that facebook, twitter linked in four, square are fads? Uh, you know, there certainly are some people that think that, but i think the majority of recognizing, like, the internet, a lot of people don’t want to set a plan giving websites, and now they realize that the direction the technology is going and we to be there and the charities that are there are going to capture that audience, and i didn’t mention google plus and i guess right, i guess you could say, you know, the i’ve seen written that tweeting it will be will be around for a very, very long time and there’s, the question is whether twitter would be around for a long time and that sort of captures, you know, the concept of meeting people online will, i think, is unending, but just whether it’ll be facebook ten years from now or google plus or something else that we don’t we’ve never even heard of, so i think the concepts will endure is just what platforms? Yeah, certainly we’ve seen changes in technology, you know, starting my face-to-face book, and now there might be a migration to google plus, we’ll have to see, but i think the idea is that individuals are out there, they’re using social media on a daily basis and whether you like the concept or not, that is where your supporters are at and if the captive audience and so i think there are a lot of charities that are really leveraging that they’re posting on facebook i daily basis, they’re not necessarily using it for fund-raising purposes and i don’t think that’s the goal, but they’re using it to build a relationship, and that really is the key. When we talk about plan, get what you want, a relationship and how should ah non-profit start in social media for planned e-giving yeah, i think the most important thing is to find out where your community is and the way you do that is through testing and listening there’s a lot of literature in this area that cantor kind of social media guru for non-profit she’s written about this non-profit technology network and ten has a lot of resources, but the idea is that you need to find out where your community is, and the best way to do that is to set up a facebook page, set up a twitter account, start posting and tweeting, advertise with your email on your website, and see where you are followers or your fans are at. And then, you know, this is the medium that’s working for me, and then you need to try some different types of posts or tweet to see what your community response. Teo so it’s a matter of really testing, listening and it’s going to be different for each organization. Christian schulz is senior vice president at crescendo. We’re talking about social media for your plan giving programme. We’re going to take a break. Please stay with us tooting, getting dink, dink dink, you’re listening to the talking alternate network duitz get in. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, back-up two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rotter with us fund for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Durney welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio kristen schultz from crescendo interactive and i are talking about social media for your plan to giving program kristen i since you mentioned that this is not necessarily for getting gifts directly, but really just in large part building dona relationships. One of the poll questions that i asked listeners for before the show is whether you’re non-profit is using facebook to build donorsearch ships on day, three quarters of the respondents said either yes, quite a bit or yes, slightly and twenty five percent. We’re not using it at all, so overwhelming majority using facebook to build dahna relationships, what do you like to see in in terms of goal setting for social media around planned e-giving i think in terms of gold, you have to set some basic objective and then begin to track your results. I like the smart objective that non-profit technology, uh, network uses smart. I mean your specific about your goals, they’re measurable there, attainable the relevant and their time bound. For example, in the plan giving context, it might be that i post a link to sign up for my organization can give you use letter on facebook and i might that’s the goal of achieving thirty new sign up in the next thirty days so that’s, quantitative and it’s time down. But once you’ve set a basic objective like that, you can use some of the measurement tools to actually measure how you’ve achieved your results and absolute organizations want to see they want to see that they’re achieving results from their social media efforts. Where will we find the and ten groups? Do you know? Do you know there you are, l ten ntn dot or ge and that’s the non-profit technology network? Is that right? Okay, i have a lot of resource latto resource is out there for people who are dafs or social media experts who are actually doing the actual posting. Most of the organization’s i’ve talked to in the plane giving arena are not posting to the page. They have a general charity facebook page and there ford and post to that person. Okay, so let’s talk about some of the methods that non-profits can use are around social media for plan giving. What did you see around the use? Of video. Yeah, i’ve seen a lot of the area video, and i think this is a growing area. Facebook allows you to drop videos on youtube and establish a link, or you can record a video via webcam. Texas am university is an example of security that has dropped number of donors testimonials. I had a great one a couple of months ago. A couple of made a request through their will, and they are a couple that has spent generations of their family, their children and grandchildren through texas a and m. And so they shared their story and talked about why you should contribute teo and m in their requests, gifts and the benefit of social media with dr stories and testimony, menu testimonials and videos that individuals can respond right on the paint and so you can share in that enthusiasm. Both seems staff testimonials where staff members, charities will talk about why they’ve made a commitment to their will on and then mission videos are very popular. The citadel foundation has a great video talking about the work of their organization. Save the chimps are really wonderful, custom branded video that shares images of their work so there’s a lot you can do with video about facebook and all summer long, andi want toby reassuring to our writings, which is small and mid sized non-profits that that these videos don’t have to be high end there’s been there’s really compelling stuff out there? That’s really just like a flip cam, right? Really, you could drop anything on facebook that meet their specifications, but you’re just simply dropping the video out there and establishing a link, you know, youtube or where, and it just doesn’t need to be, you know, high production value as long as that you mentioned some donorsearch s timoney als and another question that i asked around facebook and since you mentioned it for listeners before the show is, are you using facebook to support your plan to giving program? Nobody said yes quite a bit about a third a little more than third said yes slightly and then all the rest, about two thirds said no, they’re not using facebook at all to support planned giving so summer some are using it for donor relationships generally based on the first question, but on this on this question, not really using it. So much for plan e-giving and that is true, and i did my survey there’s only a small group that it’s starting to use facebook and twitter and lengthen and some of these platforms for planned gift. But i think it’s a growing group, certainly we’ve seen a lot of growth the current giving side no securities air out there talking about their efforts, and they also have cast donation button paypal account’s attached to their facebook pages. But yeah, there hasn’t been a lot said about this in the plane, getting community and that’s why this research was so interesting to me, and i wonder if if some of that reluctance to use facebook for planned e-giving is because the older, older community sixty, people sixty seventies and eighties are reluctant to use facebook beyond, you know, just tracking keeping in touch with family. I think that some individuals you that correct, but it’s actually not if you look at these fucking site survey’s biggest growth has been in recent years women age fifty five plus they are online and again, they’re looking at grandchildren’s pictures and they’re on their facebook pages every day. And so there’s actually a growing group of seniors who are out there one of the individuals i talked with david moore from chapman university he’s got a facebook page that’s just dedicated to his plane getting group, and he established it because he found so many of the seniors who were supporters of the university were out there on facebook. So it’s surprising, but there is a growing group there and it’s, a group that you can capture their attention if you are out there with a present for your carrying on with kristen schultz, senior vice president for crescendo interactive. We’re talking about planned your social media for planned e-giving remind you that we are live tweeting when that singleton is guest live tweeting for us. Use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter and if you have a question you want to call in, we can’t take your call at eight seven seven four aito for one two oh eight, seven, seven, four aito for one two oh, you mentioned the quests kristen, is that really the place to start? If if you’re a small and midsize shop, is that the? Is that the place to start your social? Media effort? Yeah, it really is. The majority of plan gifts are still bequest. Request our blanket virtually any charity can offer and it’s interesting. Because if you look at the statistics, lawyers got confidence survey, sixty five percent of adults have no plan. And so a lot of individuals have not even begun to plan for their future. But planning when it does start its beginning earlier than we previously thought. It’s actually not a sixty five at forty forty five, the average age for the first will of actually forty four. And this is based on a study that was reproducing if key eventjournal average age for first requested forty nine and you can see actually metoo start capturing the attention of individuals in their forties when we talk about plan gift. Okay. And of course, i want to keep myself out of george in jail on the show we have judge in jail. And, you know, i said bequests. I just wanna make sure that everybody understands that that is a gift in someone’s will i think most people understand that, but i want to stay clear of dark in jail because if i’m in george in jail than be nobody to talk to you way we just have to hang up now would be the end so that we don’t want that. How about getting testimony? Sorry, getting technical information to either donors or advisors? How much of that did you see? I would say the most common plan getting post on facebook or tweet on twitter are short they’re typically wanted two lines with a short length back-up teo plan getting website and it’s really important to use a short link when you’re linking teo anything on your site, go to billy dot com or tinyurl dot com the best toasts are always the ones that linked to interactive tools or ask the reader to take action or respond. One organization i’ve seen it done quite well in marquette community foundation in northern michigan. They are on facebook and they have established a series of link on facebook. Teo will kit, and they invite people to download this freak it it’s a guide to planning your will and trust and that’s led to request discussions on the page. Uh, it’s resulted in vivid when someone asked questions on the page, and it seems that they’re interested to get planner will then take the discussion off the page and going have a normal visit, just like you would do with any plan gift, and that resulted in commitments for the organization. Both cast cash gift, but also bequest. Okay on dh that’s ah, technical information for donors. Did you see much use of technical information for advisors on being promoted around social media? I mean, i know technical sites exist for planners and advisors, but did you see non-profits encouraging advisers to go there through their own social media? I have not seen as much of that, but what i have seen is that there are a couple of non-profit that have advertise seminars for sessions for advisors, you, twitter and facebook, and i’m thinking of a jewish organization, the washington dc area, that sundown fairly effectively, but yeah, i don’t see a lot of post directed towards advisors from charity. Ok, let’s, talk a little about blogging. I know you. You have some have some tips about blogging. What? Just let’s again. Tryto encourage people. Why should there be a plan giving block? Yeah, i think that blogger is your own expression the way teo. Talk frankly about your work, your mission. And there are some organizations that have done that very effectively. Valencia college foundation in florida. Sorry, where was that? Was valencia? Yeah, valencia kottler foundation that gives planner there. Dahna marino has a great blogged herb log is on the word press platform and she’s featured a number of different types of plant gifts. She’s talked about the quest, uh, stock gift. She in a bequest post, will post her bequest language so individual knows how to include the charity in their plan, she always post to a gift acknowledgement, forms a form where the individual can fill that out, acknowledge a guest and join their legacy society on and all of her posts link back to her plan, getting website and her email and so she’s using the bloggers away to drive people to the plan, giving sight for more information and what’s your advice around driving people to the bog. I think that’s a great idea as well, it’s just that unless you build a really comprehensive block, you won’t have all of the information that you might have on your plan giving sight so you would have to make sure that you have big coverage of the different gift model and also, you know, some really motivating stories, but certainly she’s making a good example, someone who has built up a plan getting file, she actually files and takes her block and all of her blog’s are filed under plan giving. So if i wanted to find all of the information on plan giving on her block, i would just click on plan giving and she’s built up a fairly comprehensive list of posts on plan getting topic. So i think you can grow that over time, but it might not include all the information you might have on your plan getting website, you know, write clearly, and i was just i’m asking about howto promote the blog’s that people go there, people go there to see it, and then they find the information elsewhere. How does she promote or what? What’s your advice around promoting the block well, when i drop a block, i always tweet to it right away and so my twitter followers no, i’ve just posted something and then my block also migrates over to facebook so a charity can connect their blawg to their facebook page and by tweets also migrate over to facebook, and then i have my facebook page and my twitter account linked, smiling, then account, and so anyone whose only sin will be able to view both of those. And so when you connect your accounts like that, i think it really saved you a lot of time you only have to post or tweet in one place and the information then migrates over to the different platforms. So you’re reaching different audiences, and i know that he does that also effectively, they post to the block with your face. So all these are inextricably intertwined. They’re all pointing to each other. Okay? And then the block is the source of information deeper information you said their links and archives pointed to from there right? I also spoke to someone from unicef foundation and they have a great block. They feature donorsearch stories and they will post their facebook page a link to the block every time they have a new story. Alright, kristen, we have to leave it there. That’s video testimonials, technical information for donors and advisors and blogging. Christian schulz is senior vice president for crescendo interactive. She mentioned that she actively tweets. You can follow her on twitter at at crescendo tweet. Kristen schultz, thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you, it’s. Been a real pleasure having you. We’re going to take a break, and when we return, it’ll be tony’s take to my block this week. Thank you, and then after that, we’ll have emily chan talking about your non-profit in politics, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight, three. Conscious consultant. Helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable race? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back, it’s. Time for tony’s. Take two. My block this week is thank you. Thank you very much for listening to the show whether you listen live or to the podcast. There are a thousand of you that download our podcast from itunes and i’m very grateful for that. I also thank my clients for trusting me with their plan to giving work or their charity registration work. Thank you. Also to the eleven hundred people who get my weekly radio email alerts. I am grateful that you let me into your inbox thinly veiled as a radio show. Thank you. Thanks to those who follow my blogged and comment on the block, i have a lot to be thankful for. And there’s mohr gratitude expressed on my block this week. The name of the post is thank you and you’ll find my block at mpg a d v dot com. Thank you. That’s tony’s, take two for friday, december second. Joining me now is emily chan. Emily, how you doing? I’m doing really well. How are you? Excellent. Very good to have you back on the show. Emily is an attorney at neo-sage non-profit and exempt organizations law. Firm in san francisco, and she is principal contributor at the non-profit law blawg dot com. You can follow emily on twitter under her name at emily chan. Emily we’re talking this week about political activity we’re coming up on a presidential election year just generally what is the rule around political activity by non-profits so today we’re going to focus on five, oh one, three organizations, but it would be like public charities, and the general rule is that they’re absolutely prohibited from engaging in political campaign activity on so generally this means things like no contributions, no endorsement by the organization and no use of the organization’s resources by one candidate without giving equal opportunity to the other candidates. And i want to thank you for catching me. You’re very thoughtful when i say non-profits that’s really not right? We’re talking about five o one c three, the charitable part because there are lots of non-profits that are not five or one c three, not charitable, so thank you for that and you didn’t even even called me out and possible jargon jail violation was because i missed used the term we’re not talking about non-profits like labor. Unions or or membership associations were talking about exactly as you said, the charitable sector of the five o one see threes, but thank you you mentioned not using the charity’s resource is what what kinds of resource is do. Charities need to be careful about their employees possibly using or or the or board members possibly using so there’s actually quite an array of resources that could lead into political campaign activity if used improperly to touch upon the first one you mentioned about staff on board members there’s, a major confusion area for many five on three organizations about what their staff on board members could do in their individual capacity. Because people have first amendment rights so many times individuals want to engage in political campaign activity on their own behalf, sometimes it causes problems. So for example, when that individual uses their organizational email address, they make statements at an organization sponsored event basically things out with lead one to believe that it’s the organization speaking or asking that person to speak or supporting what that individual says. The organizations want to be very clear in making that separation between what an individual khun d’oh in. Their individual capacity on what the organization is prohibited from doing so that’s interesting just use of the company or the sorry the charity’s email. I mean, i think people probably use their office e mail all the time because it’s just so much easier than switching back and forth between that gmail account or something, but so if your if you’re using your charities email, then that’s gonna that’s gonna look like you’re speaking on behalf of the charity? Yes, it certainly could, and so organizations will wantto have policies to make sure that the individuals are aware of this. But i think in most cases, it’s not intentional. I don’t think the individual wants to get the organization in trouble, but as you said, it may just be a matter of convenience or just not being knowledgeable about the kind of restrictions on the organization. So the organization should really put this into a policy and educate their staff on board members about what they can’t dio another issue with the board members or officers in the organizational when they used their titles and they speak and then are identified as being what say, the president of such organization in most cases, you want teo avoid that one possible. But if identification is going to be used in that way, really have a disclaimer that it’s just for identification purposes, because, again, there needs to be a difference between, you know, joe speaking on behalf of joe it’s, president, when joe, as the president, speak on behalf of the organization. So if someone is introduced, then at an affair on and they are going to be talking about a political statement, so so let’s say, somebody introduces joe, and they say that he’s a board member of a charity and then joe goes and and gives his political opinion about whether it’s a candidate or an issue, you’re saying that the use of that charity’s name in the introduction could cause a problem it could. But again, there are ways to add more protection around that. So asking the host of the defense to put that disclaimer out there that it’s just for identification purposes, having now disclaimer language in let’s, say the event brochure just to be sure that the attendees who were coming in other outsiders who are seeing this know that it’s just being used. Teo identify this joe from another job, but it’s not actually on behalf of the organization that he people excellent advice? Is there a difference between talking about political candidates on dh political issues or they or it doesn’t matter if they’re certainly is so with this absolute prohibition? It’s a facts and circumstances, of course, many things god organizations care about are going to be related teo elections, i mean, the people who are in the office can really influence the kind of policy and, you know, laws that our leader decided, so there are some cream izabal election related activities. The best way i’ve had it described to me is that these air yellow light activities you always want to proceed with caution because of the fact that given any kind of facts and circumstances, it could cross over into this prohibited activity. So the kind of things that organizations can do with the would be activities like voter education, such a voter guide doing voter registration like we’ve seen get out the vote candidate education, so sending all the candidates to educate them, dr policy issues and also issue advocacy and if you have this in particular, is one area that organization should be cautious about as faras crossing into political campaign activities, especially if they have advocacy on certain wedge issues. So the kind of issues that really distinguish one candidate from another, such as, you know, pro life, pro choice, looking at all the facts and circumstances if an organization is only doing this in election years really close to the election that’s not going to look right to the iris, others, but if, for example, they do it all the years, including non election years made do with the same kind of mean and scope, and they’re really doing it then to highlight their charities agenda, then that’s going to be something that issue ads that is permissible okay. And again, the name of that test that the irs applies is facts and circumstances. Is that right? Yes, like most of their test way. Then you come back. Okay, well, i guess i’m context is important, but but it also that’s such a sort of a nebulous test that it doesn’t really give a lot of guidance to non-profits to charities, right? And so that’s again why these are yellow light activities. Proceed with caution certainly seek experts to help you, especially if you’re doing something that could be seen as possibly being in support or in opposition to a candidate for public office. It’s really important to note that because the rule as a friend and it comes right out of five one two three in the internal revenue code is absolute, the revocation is the penalty, so that is pretty severe. River give me revocation of charitable status. Yes, on so that’s a severe penalty that you know the death sentence, any charity? Generally speaking, you see more of intermediate penalties. And so there’s also a penalty tax that the irs can impose on the organization and managers who approved knowingly approve a political like senator. But because that way let me stop you. How does that penalty tax work tax on attacks on what so it attacks of the political expenditure. But it can be imposed on the organization, so that would be ten percent. And then it also could be imposed on a manager who knowingly approved the political senator. And that would be two point five percent of the political on does that mean the manager would be personally? Liable to pay that tax? Do you know or work in the charity? Pay it on the person’s behalf. The person would be personally liable. And there’s also a second layer of attacks that can come in if the organization does not collect it or the manager, another manager, or that the manager refuses to approve the correction. So again, there’s some serious final piece because the public charities really are not supposed to be election hearing organization there there for public purposes for the public. Good. Look, let me ask you, emily, how come things like voter education and voter registration? You mentioned how come those things are allowed? These are seen of activity that helped facilitate democracy, but the same concept, the pie again as far the organization needing to be mutual and nonpartisan. So, for example, with voter education guide, he should not be guide that rank candidate. They really should be informative so that it allows the individual to make the decision of who they will vote for voter registration again, that can’t be just targeted to certain political affiliation or, you know, some kind of group them that would be aligned more with party affiliations. Of the post suggest getting people to register so these guys really need to be fair and balanced on dh oh, my god, fair and balanced. That’s fox is to say that and then they told they can’t know that’s a bad phrase. Lynette singleton, don’t don’t tweet that out fair and balanced thes things need to be nonpartisan. They need to be neutral, right? Right? Is that it? Okay, um, something about the organization should keep in mind with all of its activities because again, they can help the facility with democracy help educate the public, but they really shouldn’t be making that decision for the public for who they vote for. Okay, what if a charity invites candidates to speak or invites a candidate to speak? How does that work if they want to have, like, a political night where the candidates themselves speak that impermissible election related activity? But again, there are certain back-up that the organization wants be sure they take care of so all candidates should be invited to speak. If you’re having something like a debate, you know each candidate should be able to have equal time to speak there should be unusual moderator creating as much of a mutual, unbiased environment as possible will be important. You know, no campaigning, far fund-raising should be taking place, and no one from the organisation should be making statements to support or oppose someone who was there. Okay, again, neutral, you even mentioned neutral moderator very good. Okay, we’re going to take a break. Emily chan is going to stay with us, of course, for our last segment, talking about your non-profit and politics and election earing. So stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to me, my chauffeur, ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit. You’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. This is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. They get non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Are you concerned about the future of your business or career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment, be more effective be happier and make more money. Improving communications. That’s. The answer. Talking. Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back. Emily chan is with me she’s one half of our regular legal contributing team of jean takagi and emily chan. And they’re both with the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco. Where is jean takagi this week? Emily? How come, she’s? Not with us? Xero jean is here. He’s taking care of some other matters that the office is busy. You know, that’s how the holidays go. Nice he’s in the office and you can’t come to the phone right away. He’s. Not in the office. Cubine is not the office. All right, you’re covering will be on the next. Okay, i keep document these things. There are records you mentioned training a couple of times, what’s what’s the best way to train employees about what the policies are so that they know that the constraints, the first step to training, i think, is having a policy, i think that’s something that many organizations don’t have when it comes, teo advocacy related work, having the organization first become aware and informed of what they need to know is so crucial to then passing on that training, too. Volunteers dafs so once they have the policy, it really just be something of going through the policy together of revisiting that every year and making sure it’s up to date with the law and making sure that that handbook essentially is acceptable to anyone who would be having access to things like the organizations, email or social media accounts or would be staffing and events. Something we haven’t talked about yet is on individuals, election choices. Can i use the charity’s email or platform and and say what i’ve, how, how i voted or how i feel about a candidate? I don’t know, not about a candidate, sorry, but can i say how i have voted or how i intend to vote that is most likely going to be viewed closer along the lines of prohibited political campaign activity, again, using the organization as a platform than to an outsider, it certainly can have the appearance of the organization itself now engaging in this prohibited political campaign activity, even if it was an intentional, really, you know, organizations should not be able to indirectly circumvent the rules, so in that case, organization should not be publicising how individual votes and individuals in the organization should not be. Using organizational resources are platform teo voice that since this fact in circumstances test is so nebulous, i’m going to guess that social media is going to be kind of a gray area, depending on what the activity is like. Like if the organization lynx let’s se teoh somebody’s into account its website. Yes, that’s correct. A social media is such a dissolving field right now, there’s a lot of uncertainties and question marks far how the wall will fall down on this, but it certainly creates more opportunity for organizations to unknowingly or even knowingly violate the rules. So the irs has suggested, basically, from most of it, revenue rulings, another information that’s coming out that it is going to hold charities responsible, for example, the links that they have established on their web site. Two other pages, so what’s item bob chat room bulletin for its face. But this is all being treated the same way printed material has been treated traditionally by the irs. Not something organization needs to be careful about, because, you know if you link to a page one day that page, maintain tomorrow and you may not know that so any kind of connection you have to outside link should be revisited and ensure that they’re not putting the organization in a bad position. How does the irs find out about these things? Do do we know? Do they randomly check oars that when somebody blows the whistle, how does how did they find out? There are many channels for which the irs will start investigating an organization. It may come from news reports from reports from the public from things that they know internally, but win organisations so out of form ten twenty three they also put their website. And so that is something that the ira certainly will look at at the initial stage, and it’s something that on record too. So there are many ways to find out what an organization is doing, especially today on and if you are let’s, say, a controversial organization, it would not be surprising them that the media would also be paying a lot of attention. He was, well, way talked about linking to candidates website. What if the organization links to all the candidates websites with that, then be election education or you think that would be over the line? It depends of course, so that the best you can always say no family depends what gene gene over here getting no, i’m joking it again. We want to look at the purpose for why they’re linking to begin with. So it’s it’s something more similar to a voter education guide where it’s saying, you know, descriptions about each candidate’s and then providing it as like a more information line that’s that’s more like, you know, neutral information being passed on to the individual. If it’s something though we’re now it seems like one candidate is getting, you know, kind of more favoritism, mama sight or, you know, kind of less exposure like you have three candidates on your main page and to that air four clicks in, so there are a lot harder to find then. Now the facts and circumstances changing there’s no real purpose for linking it. That also raises the question of why the winks or even they’re really it would depend on all the facts and circumstances for why those wings are on the page to begin with. And your answer that it depends, i think, is perfect because it is because charity’s it is a nebulous test. Facts and circumstances and charities need to be very, very cautious and risk averse. Yes, on a great point that comes out of the question to questions about the different ways that organizations can connect tio candidates. So i believe you mentioned things like friending or re tweeting or liking their pace. I mean, these are all questions that the irs is going to have to deal with. So from a more conservative standpoint, you know, organization stands, they want to be very cautious about kind of avoiding any situation that could potentially lead to being seen as a favour to them. No, again, if there’s no real purpose in doing it, it’s probably best to not put the organization at risk by testing the waters in those areas where the irs is not clear yet on how it’s going to take a position on the kind of action. Emily chan is an attorney at the non-profit and exempt organizations law firm in san francisco. She’s, a principal contributor to the non-profit law block, which you’ll find at non-profit low block dot com. You can follow her on twitter at emily chan emily, thanks very much for being on again. Thank you for having me, it’s. Always a pleasure. Thank you. Give our regards to jean. I want to thank my guest this week, kristen schultz and, of course, emily chan and the net singleton thankyou for live tweeting lynette, you’ll find lynette at singleton consulting group that’s her company, and you can follow her on twitter at s c g the number four non-profits next week fund-raising throughout your life cycle, what does fund-raising look like in these stages of a non-profits life brainchild, startup adolescents, maturity, stagnation decline? And how do you avoid the last two of those stagnation in decline? We’re going to talk about fund-raising throughout your life cycle with jeff sobel principle of jeffrey sobel consulting and marrying major and planned gif ts are these two compatible? What do their courtship and marriage look like? Charlie gordy, the director of planned e-giving for harvard law school, and margaret hohman principle of home and consulting are going to reveal how to make this match one that’s made in heaven that was recorded pre recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning. Keep up with what’s coming up! Sign up for our insider email alerts on our facebook page. If you like today’s, show, please like us on facebook, click that button become a fan you can listen to tony martignetti non-profit radio live or archive on itunes that’s the place to listen archive, and you’ll find us at non-profit radio dot net. You can subscribe and listen any time on the device of your choice, you can follow me on twitter. The show’s hashtag is have said is non-profit radio, use it wisely and thanks again to our guest tweeter lynette singleton, the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff. Our line producer is janice taylor. Social media is by regina walton of organic social media. This show is sponsored by g grace corporate real estate services. If you’re worried about the rising costs of rent for your organization or need to capitalize on real estate, you’re non-profit owns g grayson company provides you, and you’re bored with analysis so that real estate decisions are made with transparency and thoroughness. George grace has been advising non-profits on their real estate decisions for over twenty five years. G grace dot com or eight eight, eight, seven, four, seven two, two, three seven i’m tony martignetti this is tony martignetti non-profit radio. I hope you’ll be with me next friday once. Two p m eastern. We’re always on talking alternative broadcasting always found at talking alternative dot com. Xero you didn’t think that shooting getting dink, dink, dink, dink. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. E-giving nothing. You could. Buy-in looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m julie, hi, i’m julia, what are you wearing? Welcome to j and j’s. Secrets of style and beauty. We know there’s, beauty and style, and all you do, whether it’s a job interview, first date or wedding, we also know that not everyone understands what works best for him or her. We’re here to help. Think of us as your personal beauty style and grooming guru’s, as industry experts will give you the best information for men and women on howto look phenomenal tuning tuesdays at eight pm tto. Learn how to look your best. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow, no more it’s time. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business, fam, it’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s, really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me very sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s, ivory tower radio, dot com e every time i was a great place to visit for both entertainment and education. Listening. Tuesday nights nine to eleven. It will make you smarter. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Com.

065: Nine Weeks & A Wake Up: 4 Essentials For Year-End Fundraising & Your Mobile Website – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Mary Allison, principal at OneAccord Partners

Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host last week, and i hope you were with me. It was so you want to be a consultant. Hank goldstein, author of so you want to be a consultant and a partner at the orem group, offered insight into the ups and downs the ins and outs of consulting to non-profits when should you start thinking about consulting? What personality type does it take? And how much should you charge? Also, last week next-gen charity two thousand eleven conference co founder jonah helper was with me to talk about this year’s conference on november seventeenth and eighteenth in new york city on a reminder that my show is a media sponsor of next-gen charity will be there doing interviews of speakers in mid november this week. Nine weeks and a wake up four essentials for year end fund-raising mary allison, principal with oneaccord helps you out in the final stretch toward year end, she and i will talk about segmenting and messaging, social media and other online strategies, direct mail and getting volunteers to pitch in all her ideas could be executed quickly to get you the help you need before december thirty first and our regular tech contributor, scott koegler, will be with me. The editor of non-profit technology news. He and i are going to talk about your mobile website. Do you need one? Should you have one? How do you develop one? And what should you include to make yours spiffy and sophisticated between the guests? Tony’s take to my block post this week. Let’s help kelly for pete’s sake. I’m using my blogged this week to answer a common question. Asked by small shop fundraisers, we’re live tweeting the show this week. Use hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter. Right now, we take a break, and after the break, i’ll be joined by mary allison nine weeks and wake up four essentials for year end fund-raising so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl are said to want to nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, are you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back to the show. I’m joined now by mary allison. Mary is a partner with oneaccord she has over twenty five years of senior executive leadership and organizational development experience in the non profit and corporate sectors she’s with us from washington state, and i’m very pleased that her expertise on year end fund-raising brings her to the show. Mary allison, welcome pleasure to have you thank you for joining us from washington state. You bad? Glad to be here. So mary want to think about things that people can do in the next nine weeks and a day before december thirty first, but even though there is a short time left, they still shouldn’t be putting out the same message to everybody. Is that right? Natural that’s, right? Absolutely. You need to tailor a plan of engagement for each of your segments that you’re that you’re talking with and what what are those different segments? How should you look at your constituents? Well, it’s important to know that one size does not fit all. So when you’re talking about your segments, you’re looking really to engage the prospects for the first time givers, those given events, those that are major donors and so on. Each each non-profit has its own database, and they need to be really looking intentionally with who’s in there and how to reach those people at this year in time, because we know that the dear friend letters just don’t do well, that’s, exactly right there, really? Five key to success in the urine strategy. Each of your segment seemed to taylor. You’re looking your materials. Taylor. Your message, taylor. The invitation to give and absolutely taylor the follow-up. You know you need to be thinking about how your donor as well as need be thinking about tailoring the timing, be conscious of the calendar and be intentional with your activity as it relates to that calendar. All right, let’s, look at the different segments in this first we’re going to looking at four essentials, you’re just naming five things that go along with the segmenting and the messaging to those segments, but so just not to confuse people were going to be talking about four essentials. Excuse me overall for your end fund-raising the prospects you mentioned first prospects what? Uh, let’s see? Well, let’s, identify that for people. What do you mean by prospects? First? Those air people that have some interests or alignment with your mission is often that you’ve perhaps purchase a list from a list provider and that you know that they have some affinity to the work that you want to do, and you want to invite them to get to know you better and those for those folks. You want to have a really well prepared case of why baizman teo engage with your organization? Why it makes sense in their life. So it’s really a get to know you and in a welcoming inn and would you approach them with this message? Bye u s mail or e mail? Or or how? Yeah, that’s a great question, tony, in this day and age there’s so many ways to connect every constituency are as using all of the ways of social media and snail mail in different ways, and you’ve really got to be aware of how people want to engage. And right now, many of your long time of donors are givers have been really been using male in the lodge launch fashion, but the female is also really becoming very, very important for our younger givers, and we need to be able teo, meet them where they are and invite them in. But so what are we going to do with this? This pool of prospects as we go down the spectrum from prospects and first time givers and event givers, etcetera, but for the prospects, how do we know how they want to be engaged? They’re just prospects. Well, that’s, your list providers could help you with that knowing where these folks are wanting to be met and there’s also, you know, multiple studies out there right now, you’ve really got to be hitting your creating your public awareness on the motor on many, many levels right now, you’ve really got to the had the capacity to show up where where your donors are are also been engaging, and that means being on the email means being in social media, having a facebook page utilizing your length in it is a lot of work, but it really has to happen because that’s, where we’re all using multiple channels to do our research tto learn about organizations in to determine if we want to engage, all right, and we know that your print and your online should be consistent. We’re going to talk about that shortly when we after we talked about the different segments of constituents, but you mentioned that for approaching prospects need to have your case. Does that mean you have to have ah, four color printed piece that lines that outlines? Why someone who’s a prospect should become a donor? Well, you absolutely have to have meaning. You need to be able to relate to tell. Tell your story in a way, and depending on the organization again, you need to tailor that message as it makes. Sense to who your organization is now, their organizations out there that are very large not-for-profits that absolutely conduce very big and showy pieces, but there are so many other small not-for-profits doing great work where a big showpiece does not make sense to their mission or to their budget still need to do an intentional piece that speaks from the heart, and that really showcases the investment. The return on the investment that donor will make to the mission of that organization and that could be a single letter was just a wonderful picture of either the population that you’re serving or whatever your mission is, but it needs to be warm and inviting and appropriate, and we always want to keep in mind that the audience for for this show is small and midsize non-profit so i appreciate the advice for what small shops khun do and how just a heartfelt message can be very, very meaningful does this doesn’t have to be a four color, you know, blow out brochure, absolutely, and infirmity not-for-profits their donors would be questioning why, where they would have such a showy piece if they are really working from a mission based. Very small financial base. They’re going. They’re going to want to see that. That there, that the enough for-profit are using those dollars appropriately, making sense in trimming costs, wherever they can marry. We’re going to take a break, and when, when we returned, you and i will keep talking about these different prospect pools, our constituent pools, i should say, different constituent pools and the messages to each one, and then we’ll carry on, talk about other ideas for nine weeks and wake up four essentials for year end. Fund-raising i know mary will stay with me, and i hope you will, too e-giving intending to do getting ding, ding, ding, ding, you’re listening to the talking alternate network, you e-giving xero you could are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. If you have big ideas and an average budget, tune into the way above average. Tony martin. Any non-profit radio ideo. I’m jonah helper from next-gen charity. Dahna welcome back, it’s nine weeks and wake up until december thirty first. So my guest, mary allison and i are talking about four essentials for your year end fund-raising mary let’s, talk a little more about some of these different constituent cools. You mentioned the first time donors, people who have given just once what what should your year end message be to that group? Well, you know, tony, to any of these groups, there needs to be a strong message of appreciation, so you need to make sure that through any correspondence that you have that you recognize that these donors have some interest in your organization, you appreciate that interest for all those that have already given your first time givers, your event givers, your major donors make sure you have an important message embedded in the in the appeal that lets them know how much you appreciate what they’ve done for you in the past and what’s your goal for those first time donors that the one time donors, well, you’re really looking for them to either step up the amount that they’ve given in the past or to really consider becoming a more annual giver, perhaps. You could set up a re occurring opportunity where they make a commitment to provide twenty five dollars a month every month of the year their opportunities like that, what you’re looking for, those donors to really have ah, an ongoing relationship with you that shows up ideally monthly and at least at least more than once a year and let’s say now for these one time donors that you do have an email address because hopefully you’ve you’ve acquired that when when they made their first gift, so should you approach them by email and also by u s mail, you know, for those that have the capacity to ask their donors how they would like to be met. That’s the best way to go ask them what how they would most like to hear from you that and if you don’t have that opportunity or they don’t engage in that way, you need to really be aware of what your mailing both snail mail, if you will and email and then track and see how the how the a donor responds to you, they’ll give you their own tips by their having a check show up in the mail by getting online and perhaps uh, uh, putting making a donation online or perhaps even calling in and and offering up a credit card number there. But you really need to look at those hands that they’re giving you and then come back in the make a conscious decision on how you want to proceed with engagement. How about the people who already our monthly donors, what should your message be to them that they’re already giving very regularly? Yes. And in this day and age, what, you really want to do it again? Offer them the case for support. Let them know how, how meaningful their donut donations have been and how that helped the mission and the work that’s being done and asked him if they can perhaps make it a little bit more this year. Are this time around? If they gave twenty five dollars a month last year, maybe they could step up to fifty dollars, this year. But you need to ask them and let them know again how meaningful those donations are to the important work of the mission. All right. And i suppose the people who are your occasional donors, i guess. You want to make them or try to get them to be regular donors. That’s. Exactly. Right. Hopefully that you could move them to that monthly donor group. And then the last one, major donors, people who are already giving. You know, however, your organization defines major for small and midsize shops that maybe five hundred dollars a year over a thousand dollars a year. If people are already giving at that level, what should your year end message be? Well, again, you need thio show your appreciation for them. Let them know that their investment when your organization has been some great great work. And again, you just you did you have to ask it’s taken to step it up a little bit more and so that you could do even more important work and what’s important there, though, tony, is that you need to have that relationship with that major donor all year. So you really need to be able teo offer them the relationship if you will recapture it for them. Let them know how you how you’ve appreciated them throughout the year and ask them if they can continue and prepped. Step it up a little. Bit more this year for the important work. So if people feel that they have not had a good relationship through the year with their major donors, then that sounds like something too set a cz a priority for two thousand twelve and get a really great point. Tony, yes, our are not for-profit organizations really have tio show the love, if you will, all through the years for all their donors, okay, very consistent message. I mean, you know, i asked you about a number of different constituents, and you were consistent throughout thanking them for what they’ve done and asking them to go really just to the next step, like, as you identified so let’s talk, then about using social media properties and an online way said earlier that your your online messaging really needs to be consistent with your your print messaging. Can you say? Well, more about that? Well, you not-for-profits wherever it shows up, it needs to show up with consistency. So you need to really bundle if you will, all of your outreach levers that you’re pulling so that wherever you are when your brand, when your logo when you’re representation, shows up, it’s consistent for anybody who is tapping into it wherever they’re tapping in, and we’ve had a number of guests on the show talk about branding and messaging on dh howto howto determine what your ideal message should be and then make that consistent, but but your advice obviously is across all media. It needs to be consistent. Absolutely. Now, the way that that’s going to the way that you engage might be a little bit different. Certainly social media allows you more opportunity to encourage a kind of back and forth given take almost dialogue, and i think that not-for-profits really need to be taking advantage of that. I have something on your site where your potential donors those that are interested in you, can learn more. Perhaps it’s a survey, perhaps it’s an opinion piece, perhaps it’s a block, but find a way, tio invite more engagement so that you’re pushing and pulling rather than just pushing information. You also want to show people, perhaps by your blogged, or are other social media properties that you’re you’re relevant to what’s what’s happening in the community or in the larger news that’s exactly right there’s so many things that are going on in our world right now and there’s a lot of ways to be really well relevant in to tap into showing your relevant see to your donor base, and you need to take advantage of that wherever you can and in the same time and taking advantage that you also cannot be disingenuous, you need to be opportunistic, showing your relevancy, but not in a way that doesn’t feel appropriate or that could even cloudgood message that you’re trying to get across that that’s probably a pretty fine line because you do want to take advantage of news that is current in the community on the community might be the nation, but a sze yu said, you know, you don’t want to appear inappropriate and trying to exploit news for your own advantage. That’s, exactly right and there’s multiple examples of that in in the world right now. And do you have a moment? I could give you a quick example. Ifyou’re going? Yeah, well, not too long ago. A young a young girl, rachel, back with a nine year old girl up here in my area in bellevue, washington. Unfortunately died in a horrific car accident on i ninety we’ll just prior to her death, she had set up a fund so that for her ninth birthday, uh she asked her friends to donate to a to a charity that she had created. That was teo, uh, create clean water opportunities in africa. We’ll soon after her death. And while her family was still in mourning, uh came to light that there had been this fundez set up, and people began to contribute in her name. And her parents then had the opportunity, if you will, to take this time of morning, and really make it an opportunity of celebration of their daughter’s life too speak to their daughter, and off off also provide an opportunity for people than to donate to this charity. And within six weeks the charity had grown toe one point two. Six million and was providing yeah, water outlets have fifty thousand people in africa. That’s, that’s an incredible and sad coincidence that she had started a charity on died in the car accident. Exactly. And yet there was a very heartwarming heart felt genuine desire from everybody who heard of her story to give. And now there’s been a positive outcome. For that, my guest is mary allison she’s, a partner with oneaccord, which you’ll find at oneaccord partners dot com and we’re talking about nine weeks and a wake up for essentials for year end fund-raising let’s talk about unifying, though you have some really good advice about unifying or tying together print and email. So for instance, we had talked earlier about you said message people where they want to be hurt when where they want to hear from you. But what if it’s a thanks you we want to do that and as many places as possible if it’s a thank you note, tony, great point abs, absolutely. And there are so many ways to do that many not-for-profits will use their year and to again make a personal thank you along those lines and there’s a great way that we can talk about in a minute about how you can use your board and volunteers also do a greatjob in thanking those those people but throughout the course of the year, you know, again is we’re talking about this is what, uh, nine weeks from the day the account down, but again, a lot of these strategies. That you and i are talking about are really things to take to heart for the entire year, so showing those thanks is not just a year end, but it’s around the year and to your point, you know, we also want to thank our folks not only in the letter but also in the email and it’s really a great idea follow-up immediately with an email to someone who’s made a donation so that you’re getting multiple ways to hit them right away with that. Thanks. And in fact, i just made a donation. Tio my college, my university is an alumni, and i was actually immediately hit with a twitter from them thanking me for my donation, and i thought that was such a unique and energetic way to do it. It really it really was a fun thank you for me to get right away. And, of course, i was also followed up with a major letter from the university as well. You can also just mentioned ah website or social media presence in your printed letters, always absolutely there that needs to become a disciplined great call tony and you mentioned online surveying or pulling what? What types of questions might we be asking in these surveys? You know, it’s all kinds of data, if you’d like, you know that you could be collecting at this time. Some of them have to do with your overall scope of bishan for it. If you are a mission that is helping with the homeless, you might wantto have a survey online for your donors to ask them what’s their opinion of the work. What you’re doing in that arena, how are they? How would they rate you? Um, how would they how would they like, tio? Um, you do more do more work, different kinds of working. You can ask them and start to compile that dad and let it influence are perhaps shape the work that you’ll dio. You can also provide links on your site to somebody else’s surveys so that you’re continuing to offer your donor’s new ways to get deeper information about the type of work that your mission is inspired by, or aligned with. Let’s move to direct mail. The printed piece mail. This also needs to be personalized, right? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And again, really kind of goes back to what we talked about has a lot to do with the donor segmentation, so you need to get have the the right message at the right time from the right person asking for the right thing. And i guess e-giving got kind of a call that the four right? Okay, on, when we’re using volunteers, there are ways you have strategies you have personalizing the actual letter itself. Why don’t you share some of those? Absolutely, for instance, how i often encouraged not-for-profits that i work with to, uh, let the board members get involved with riding some of those letters, and it could be very, very simple, but very, very meaningful and impactful. So on the, uh, on the return address of an envelope itself, there’s often a little space right above the address where your boardmember can actually print their name so you can segment your list out to those friends of the board members. Give each of the board members of stack and ask them to write to hand, write their name in above your organization’s return address so that when somebody received in the mail, not only do they see their not-for-profits address and name, but they also merely see their own personal relationship with that boardmember associate id there. I love that such a simple idea, and you have an idea for also just on the letter itself. Absolutely it’s so easy just to grab a little pile of sticky notes. Really nice if you’ve got the not for profit logo on them as well. And ask your board members to just write a quick note. A quick note of thanks for your contribution hope you’ll consider giving again. Um, and often times, you know you can. You can add to that a really personal audience. Let’s have coffee soon from mary allison at jubilee women’s center. And just stick that little sticky right on top of the letter self-funding as they open it, they see it. They get that quick note from you and it just makes it more meaningful. Something else that i used to see when i was in the air force was that senior officers would cross out the formal greeting where it said, dear, you know, captain or colonel whatever last name and they write the person’s first name. So they scratch it out on the letter and write the person’s first. Name right above it and that’s not to be corrected is to stay that way. So the person sees the the recipient sees the personalization very good. I love it. And this is stuff we could do at a board meeting, right when everybody’s together at the board? Absolutely it takes fifteen minutes, there’s often during that part part of the board meeting where you’re going through the usual agenda items that there’s not too much going on that you could be doing. You could be multitasking absolutely. And in just the minute and a half or so that we have left let’s talk about using the board or other volunteers what’s your advice there, how can these people really be effective in the last nine weeks? In a day? You know, it’s important that the boardmember is your key. Stakeholders and volunteers know what you’re up to make sure that they’re getting information from your organization about the initiatives that you’re working on, invite them to help you also provide them with some uplifting stories of success, of the of return on invest so they can share them, and they’re going out to their holiday parties they’re meeting with so many different people, they have little nuggets that they can drop into conversations about the good work that your organization is doing. It’s also a great idea to create on your internet site or in your appeal letter, a little paragraph about why i volunteer and let one of your stakeholders your boardmember give you a paragraph about why they dio and it’s just so inspirational. And then at the end of the year end, they could be used very effectively to say thank you. Oh, absolutely that khun metoo be done again by a hand written note or even a phone call it’s such a great practice for the board members to kind of do it. What we would call a phone, tree and let’s provide our board members with ten to twelve names of donors that we had a significant impact and let them give them a call and just say thanks identified himself is a boardmember they’re genuine thankfulness and it’s just like a thirty second call, but has such meaning. Mary allison is a partner with oneaccord, which you’ll find at oneaccord partners dot com we’ve been talking about nine weeks and wake up four. Essentials for your year end fund-raising mary allison, thank you very much for being a guest, tony. Thank you, it’s. Been a real pleasure. We take a break after the break. Tony’s, take two, and then scott koegler, our tech contributor, is going to share ideas about your mobile website, so stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs metoo dahna welcome back, it’s. Time for tony’s take to my block this week is let’s help kelly for pete’s sake a solo fundraiser named kelly ass. The question in a linked in group that has over forty five thousand members and nobody had an answer shouldn’t get a single comment. But her question is so common and so basic for small shop fundraisers that i wanted to step in. Her question for the solo fundraisers is how should i spend my time? The woman has to deal with grantwriting and prospect research and acquiring new donors, cultivation of existing prospects and donors stewardship you know the saying thank you to donors. Corporate sponsorship work. How should she spend her time? Andi, i was disappointed that none none of the people in that mogul link group had an answer or suggestions for her. So i blogged about it this week, and i hope you will go to my blogged and give your advice to kelly and the probably tens of thousands of similarly situated solo fundraisers in small and midsize non-profits how do you recommend that they spend their money? My blog’s that m p g a d v dot com i hope you’ll go there and and share your advice that is tony’s take two for friday, october twenty eighth with me now is scott koegler we all know he’s, our regular tech contributor we all know. He’s, the editor of non-profit technology news today he’s going to break down whether you need a mobile site, how to develop one, what to include in yours if you if you do, go ahead. Scott koegler welcome back, tony. Good luck. Are you in greenville, south carolina this month? I am actually so you’re are you with us by mobile in your in your rv? Yes, i’m using skype on the computer, but i have pretty much a full set up here. Ok? That’s cool. I love how you i want youto i want you to bring that rv into new york city sometime. That would be an adventure in itself. Mobile websites. Why do why do we first of all, why do we need a special website? Why can’t people just look att our regular website on their mobile device? The short answer is that the screen size is different back-up the longer answer is that typically there’s no keyboard? So you need to accommodate the differences in the way people interact with websites. That is different from what they do when they’re at their laptop or desktop. So just a small version of our website is not going to look so good. There are some utilities and most of the website development systems that will automatically reform at your website to fit in the smaller screens they detect the browser and the type of device, and they’ll somehow we format, but most of the time they end up just squeezing it, which really doesn’t help much now. Okay, if you don’t have that sort of utility, teo, create it and process it automatically for small size. How how do you develop a mobile website? Hyre the developers are let sites have their own special tools that allow them to make more intelligent decisions about how they reform that change the size. A lot of websites, of course, include banner ads, large graphics header and those kind of things are really those were pretty useless on a smaller device, so they get rid of those they concentrate more on content, some, some concentrate more on interactivity, social media interconnection and those kind of things. Okay, we’re going. We’re going to talk about some of those things that that should be on your mobile website, so it sounds like the place to start would be with the person who developed your you’re latto ordinary. Or day to day website. But it sounds like there’s, also a special expertise that might be needed. Teo downsize it for mobile purposes, i would say definitely. On the other hand, that kind of expertise is is becoming a necessity for anybody who’s developing website. So that’s, they probably not going to have a real hard time finding someone to do that. And you mentioned the first people that developed your original website. At this point, they already have the expertise to be able to reconfigure or develop secondary website. Okay, and my guess is it’s not going to be as expensive as like, say something else, that you and i talked about a few shows ago, which was developing an app, a mobile app. You’re not going to be spending that kind of money on your mobile website. It depends really okay, because mobile app so we were talking about, you know, tens of thousands of dollars? I don’t think so. The case for something you look at a lot of the what people call act. Some of them really are just, uh, depends on the purpose and the depth to which you want to develop this, but applications or apse can be either just dedicated websites are provided by a link on your phone or your tablet. Uh, or they can actually be downloaded applications that link to the back and took it all right. So a nap could be less expensive than i just described. And ah, mobile website could be more expensive depending on how sophisticated you want to get. Okay, so let’s, talk about some of the things that you’re really essential for your mobile website. You want to have a platform for giving our imagine write what you want to do is to start at look at what are the most critical thing? Is that you, if i get people to use on your website and, uh, you know, articles are great, but on a mobile website they may be less important. You will make him available by link and typically texts. And those kind of things will automatically reformat much less italy of a difficulty poor, heavy, too kind of redesign them. But, yes, you said be ableto give donations. I mean, that should be pretty much, you know, an easy thing to do. It should be prominent in the application. It should be, you know, donate here kind of button pretty much the same kind of button you would use on your standard website but linking to eh a formatted page that that was pretty much nothing but allowed a person too donate in the amount that they want and so you want to make that is easy to find as possible. It sounds like just like just like on the primary website. Exactly what have those prominent get too pretty much oneclick kind of a thing. One of the tricks is, too, if you already know who these who your donors are, and if they’re members of your website community, i have an automatic sinan so that they don’t have to go back to and identify themselves again. That makes it way more difficult. You want to be ableto automatically. Recognize who they are, provide them the options for making a donation and the options for a payment again, if you know who they are and heather contribution information the way that they like to give you khun going to that make use of what you really got. Uh, it’s not makes things like paypal, easy to get to or or even credit card donation forms, right? All simple as possible so we don’t lose people who want to give right. And they said they don’t have the keyboard of the bill specifically do have keyboards, obviously on phone and tablets with there, you know the rules really not quite as easy to use, so you want to minimize any of the typing? Ok? Eso minimize typing in favor of buttons to select instead to think buttons to select and automatically updated information again, you have there if you know who they are by virtue of the fact that they are members of your community, for maybe the facebook sign and kind of a function where you don’t you don’t have to type anything. You just have to identify themselves one way or another. Okay, good advice for for minimizing. The typing on a on a small keyboard what else do you like to see in a mobile website? Scott, in the mobile environment show, social interaction is really a big thing most people are using, you know, facebook or twitter, linkedin, uh, google plus to an increase in and out, and so they’re already using those facility. So if you have your website there, you want to be ableto allow them toe quickly and easily share the information again. A donation function should be something that they should be able to click on it and say, sure this with my facebook account and allow me to write in a quick update that says, i just don’t need to do this. So i think you should donate to this cause because of whatever again, make it simple allow them to share it on whatever social media their preferences i would say limited, for instance, don’t just limited to twitter, facebook and the other ones that are important for your constituent community, and these connections are very easy to make maybe not by the average person but by a developer. Certainly the social media platforms are all designed to be shared. Widely right, you’re developers know that without you thinking that something that they would add to certainly your main website, and easily enough to any mobile website. Okay, just in a minute or so we have left before a break. What about events non-profits hold events? What advice do you have around putting those in the mobile website? Well, just like the donation, i would say provide the information about the event in a concise manner provide the dates times, whatever any contributions or expenses that are necessary in order to attend and then allow them to sign up for and say, yes, i’m coming. Facebook has a great, um function for that the the invitation, and so it’s easy enoughto leverage off of that, or just to provide your own there’s plenty of services available for your website as well that, uh, allow you to set up on the event and invite people and then accept their participation. We’re going to take a break, and when we return, scott can go to the editor of non-profit technology news will keep telling us about advice for your mobile website, so stay with us. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future. You dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven in two, one, eight one eight three the conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing effort. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile market. Their motto is, we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com. Told you. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. Welcome back, scott koegler and i were talking about your mobile website, scott, just to wrap up what we were just talking about before the break events there’s that spiffy little, you know, little mapping applications that i see on lots of websites. Bilich certainly those air are good for events, you know, people don’t know where the location is and be ableto click here and guide me there, get directions. Those bills are great, helpful applications, you know, i just read that tom tom, the maker of gps systems typically for cars, is going out of the hardware business because nobody argue anymore, they got it on their phones in their tablets. Oh, interesting. So the two players in that really are tom, tom and and garment is the big one, right? Right, right and no indication that they’re going out of the hardware business. I didn’t hear any announcement from garment, but i was kind of surprised. Tom tom, they make cem really great physical equipment, and i used both. I used the tom tom and i also used my my cell phone, my smartphone and i still use the tom tom quite a bit, just because it hangs on my yeah, okay, but those those dashboard devices always have the advantage of talking that speaking the directions does your phone do that? It does? Yes, it does. I just used google maps actually on my cell phone and it talks and allows me teo to guide i i don’t talk to it. I don’t even know if it has that some of the town tommy and have the ability to say actually talked the address we’ll get either. Okay. Interesting. So back to the mobile websites i would i would think you’d want to have a way for people to reach you if they want to know if they want to have further interaction further find out, get more information, sure and again, this is something of a typical on a website where you would typically, you know, quicker button that would email or bring up a chat box. I’m on a mobile device course difficult you’re talking about a cellphone or smart phone, so it makes a lot more sense. Maybe just click and talk, so include the phone number there with a click button alittle magically dials phone number and get you directly to to the non-profit that they’re trying to talk to excellent, okay? And and finally, you had some advice about content, news, content. Well, i really believe that content really is important in almost every aspect of communicating and the next newsletter presentation and those kind of things and if you’re doing that anyhow on your website, which i would have to believe that most non-profits air doing there, providing information about who they are, what they do and what they would like to do. So being that mobile devices are things that are used pretty much intermittently, not like a desktop where you sit back and you actually sit there for a while, you want to be able to provide people easy ways to read your content, so either by way of a knee mail update to the cell phone or maybe an rs s feed or there are a whole lot of other feed mechanisms that will bring your content to the cell phone. It is critical because those air, those off moments where, you know, maybe they have time to read two, three, four hundred words with the text as they’re waiting for whatever it is a bus in a cab somewhere, whatever they happen to be doing, and i don’t have something else occupying your time, scott let’s remind people what are ss feed? What does that mean? Uh, really simple syndication, which means almost as much as our ss, right, but it’s, where most people will know it is google reader, google reader i accept those kinds of feeds and present them in a format easy to read me to track what they’re interested in, and we’ve talked in the past about having video on your site. Can you do that on your mobile site? Also, pretty much any smartphone or tablet will accept the video. One exception, of course, is the big exception the iphone, the ios environment with iphone and ipad that don’t have don’t accept flash video, which still is predominant on pretty much frustrating issue for those people, those millions and millions of people using the apple devices. So but you do want to be able to be viewed by users of that kind of device, so they’re always to do it. Your web developer can help you get around them, and when we’ve talked about video, we always make the point that it doesn’t have to be high end video. I mean, it could just be something that somebody pulled out a phone and and put them put in front of themselves when it’s when it’s riel heartfelt and genuine about the charity. Absolutely, but i would add to that the most critical part of the video is actually the audio it’s amazing that people sit through just terrible quality video feed, but they’ll immediately turn it off if they can’t hear. So be sure that you you sound is adequate, that you’ve got the the recording device close enough to the person doing the talking that the sound comes through and then it should be okay. All right. And, scott, just a minute we have left. You mentioned google plus earlier. What are you seeing now that it’s been out on dh public? How are you seeing it used? Are you seeing it used widely? I mean, really, actually people using it. Not just signing up. What are you seeing? Uh, the current number is around forty million users, which is pretty phenomenal, actually short period of time, they’ve been out. They just recently actually yesterday announced that they’re integrating the the blogged the one facility, i think it’s blonde dot com brother dot com, which is google property, so they’re going to be linking google plus with blogger, which makes a whole lot of sense because if you’re now the block near post will be shown in google, plus so little by little google’s, integrating all their properties and other facilities with google plus and it’s really getting traction. One of the comments that i saw just recently was that it’s not so much about your family, it’s more about your other relationships, your business relationships and your professional relationship. So i think google plus is carving out a niche that is not so much directly competitive with facebook, not that they don’t want a lot of that business, but i think they’re going in a little bit different direction, and they’re being successful at it. Scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find at n p tech news. Dot com he’s, our regular tech contributor. We talked to him once a month. Scott a real pleasure. Thanks very much for joining us. Thanks, durney. Take your good to have you want. Thanks, scott. And also mary allison from washington st mary, thank you very much for joining us next week. Assess your asking style author andrea kill stead will be with me for the hour to share her insights into the four asking styles and what each different style needs to be successful. Are you a mission controller or kindred spirit? Find out next week with my guest, andrea kill stead you can keep up with that’s coming up week after week. Sign up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page. If you liked the show, click like on the facebook page become a fan, you can listen live our archive, you’ve been live toe listen archive go to our itunes page all the episodes, all the shows are archived there you’ll find that at non-profit radio dot net download subscribe and then you can listen on the device of your choice, whether that’s a smartphone or a tablet or desktop or laptop, follow me on twitter just use my name and this shows hashtag when you want to follow the show feed use hashtag non-profit radio our creative producer is claire meyerhoff, the line producer for tony martignetti non-profit radio is sam. Liebowitz. On our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. I hope you will be with me next friday one to two p. M eastern on talking alternative broadcasting, which is found at talking alternative dot com. I think the shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz e-giving duitz cubine hey, looking to meet mr or mrs, right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com hey! Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? 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064: So You Want To Be A Consultant & NextGen:Charity 2011 – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Hank Goldstein, principal at The Oram Group

Jonah Halper, co-founder of the NextGen:Charity conferences

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Durney welcome to the show, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host. We’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I certainly hope you were with me last week when we first talked about giving beyond the czech non-cash e-giving interview was recorded at the national conference on philanthropic planning, where i was earlier this month in san antonio, and my guest was michael king of the national christian foundation, and he shared the process for closing gif ts of unusual assets, like collectibles, real estate and intellectual property second guest last week was proactive prospect research with our regular contributor, maria simple, the prospect finder. She followed up on her earlier conversation with me in a previous show by going into greater detail on making your small shop prospect research proactive this week. So you want to be a consultant? Hank goldstein is the author of so you want to be a consultant for the association of fund-raising professionals and he’s, a partner at the orem group he’s going to share his insight into the ups and downs the ins and outs of consulting for non-profits when should you start thinking? About consulting what personality does it take and how much should you charge? We’ll talk about all that with hank after that next-gen charity two thousand eleven i have with me the conference co founder jonah helper. We’re going to talk about this year’s conference on november seventeenth and eighteenth in new york city will find out who the great speakers are, what that conference is all about. My show is a media partner of the nextgencharity conference between the guests. As always, tony’s take two. My last week’s block post separate the juice from the pits is getting a lot of comments. A juicer at a restaurant got me thinking about fund-raising and how you should best spend your time. We’re live tweeting this week. Use the hashtag non-profit radio to join our conversation on twitter that hashtag again non-profit radio we’re going to take a break, and when we returned, i’ll be joined by hank goldstein. We’re going to talk about being a consultant for non-profits so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl. Offset. Two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five, zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Dahna hey, are you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Durney welcome back to the show with me now is hank goldstein. He is a principal partner of the orem group consultants to non-profits he’s, the past chair of giving us a foundation and former chairman and president of the association of fund-raising professionals, both nationally and in new york. He’s, an adjunct professor of philanthropic management at the new school. And he’s, the author of the association of fund-raising professionals monograph. So you want to be a consultant? I’m very pleased that his work and that booklet brings him to our show. Hank goldstein. Welcome. Thank you. Good to be here. Pleasure to have you. Why did you write? So you want to be a consultant? People were always coming up to me at conferences and wherever, and would sell your consultant. I’d like to be a consultant. How much should i charge? What do i have to know? And so i thought about that for a while and finally decided to put it on paper. And a f p was good enough to publish it was. How much should i charge? Always the first question. It’s right at the top of the list that you can read it in. Their eyes, we’re going to get to that had a charge, and how much to charge we’ll get to that later is do you think this is ah, natural progression to do? Most people think about this who are working in non-profits i think at some point it crosses the mind of just about everybody on it could be a variety of reasons they’ve had a bad day at the office, and they’re angry at their boss is one reason, well, maybe that’s not a reason, but it’s a rationalization. And then another reason a good reason is they think about their careers very often there ten or fifteen years in, and they’re thinking about what should i do with my life? And it arises in that fashion. They’re laid off from a job, and i seen some very senior people laid off in the last couple of years, and instead of looking around for another job, they say, well, maybe i should be a consultant and some of them do i always tell him it’s easy to start it, it’s hard to stay in it, okay? And we’re going that’s. Excellent. Well put, we’ll talk about that, too, do you have to wait ten or fifteen years. I mean, if you’re if you’re thinking of it consciously yourself, without any of these external loser, all external reasons for thinking about it lay off for ah, bad day at the office. But if you’re thinking about it on your own, do you have to wait ten or fifteen years? No, not at all, but i think you need to have a few years experience under your belt. I had a call the other day from a very bright young woman who graduated from princeton. She’s done this she’s done that she wants to work for dahna for non-profits for the rest of her life, and she wants to be a consultant. And i said, well, pile up a couple of years experience working for somebody, particularly in the area of non-profit hearing that attracts you, then we can talk about your being a consultant, but right now you haven’t got anything to sell to anybody, and we’re talking about consulting. Are we thinking, are you thinking this is independent work or working for a consulting firm? Well, it’s both used to be that one could aspire to join the staff. Of the consulting firm that’s. What i did way back when and in those days it was possible consulting firms had fatter payrolls, and i guess they were paying lower, but it was possible to get in that way today with virtual consulting the firm’s of mostly shrunken size there only a few really large ones that take people on most firms are one, two, three, maybe four partners and that’s it s so it’s much harder to get a job in a consulting firm unless you bring in a client or two on that, of course happens. And i guess having that client or two would would help you either way. I mean, if you want to be an independent, sure, it helps a lot to have somebody that, you know, is going to travel with you as as your first first or second client. Yeah, and the way that first or second client often comes about is hyre you’ve either been separated from your job or you decide to separate from your job, you decide to become a consultant and you say to the powers, i’d like you to be my first client, and very often that happens. And that’s, what gets people started? So that gets them going then as i said earlier, it’s easy to start, harder to stay in where is the second, third and fourth client coming from that’s going to pay the rent, the overhead and your salary and your health benefits and your dogs, chow and laura’s? What does it take to be a successful consultant if you’re thinking about it? Well, i think you have to look at your personality in in shorthand. I think that there is such a thing as a consulting personality. What is it? It’s it’s a person who’s willing to take risks probably has a slight case of attention deficit disorder because you like to do more than one thing at a time, you can discipline yourself so that your time is well spent. You have expertise either as a generalist or in some particular aspect of not-for-profits work and that’s and you can work without a lot of structure. The other side is this staff personality you, khun you like structure you don’t mind having somewhat someone tell you what to do, you can abide the politics of the organization with which you’re a silly ated and it’s a single thing and you don’t have to struggle with trying new hunt for clients and serve clients at the same time, which as a consultant one is obliged to do no matter how successful you are on staff. I imagine some people get a little frustrated by having lots of responsibility but not so much authority see that goes between those. Well, i think that happens quite a lot that in not-for-profits where thie asset base is thin, throwing a lot of work at people without consequence. Responsibility is one of the major sources of frustration or as i like to put it, stresses combustible and people burn out, and one of the reasons they burn out is number one. They don’t really control their environment. When you are a consultant, you control your environment, whether you do it sagely or not is another question buy-in environment you mean who you’re working with, what your hours are, how you work, how you build exactly, you want to sit in your jammies and work? You couldn’t do it, it’ll depend, but it does depend a lot on your own self discipline. Five we’re going to take a break. Sure, hank goldstein is going to stay with us. Of course, we’re going to talk a little more about attention deficit disorder as it relates to consulting and other things. So stay with me. I didn’t do anything to get independent thing. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, you waiting to get you thinking. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping huntress people be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back to the show. Hank goldstein and i are talking about his monograph for the association of fund-raising professionals. So you want to be a consultant, hank let’s. Talk a little more about the personality that it takes because this is this is the first thing you mentioned when i when i said, you know, what does it take to be successful? You gotta have the right sort of personality. So you mentioned risk acre, or at least i guess not. Risk averse. What? What are the risks? Well, several risks are, first of all, getting in keeping clients is one. A second risk is longevity. You’ve got to be able to stick it out on maybe go a while without an income. Wait, let’s, stop there. Go a while without an income. Well, you start up something. If you’ve married well, it may not be a problem. Otherwise coupled. Well, that was my mistake. I see. Yeah. Now i know where you were when you know where you major state where years ago. But the point is, you have to be able to sustain yourself if you leave a job and maybe you take that employer with you. Is your first client? How long will that last? So there is that these days on that sort of a big, maybe two it’s a big you might just be leaving. Ah fund-raising zor staff job, and they have no intention of your first glass so that’s, right? And when you leave the harbour, you think you know where you’re going, but it’s a big ocean and you don’t always you don’t always know. S o i think that’s important in these days providing healthcare for yourself for your family, that’s an expensive proposition on it has to be calculated providing for retirement benefits along the way. So there are a lot of benefits people get when they have staff jobs that they have to replace when they’re on their own. Now that frightens some folks and they take, you know, wake up in the morning and they realized, oh, my gosh, that’s, that’s a big order. Maybe i better just say it. Stay where i am. It may be boring. I may hate my bus, but it’s safe onda lot of people don’t, you know don’t believe isn’t that sad though it well, it depends on the personality no. It’s not sad if you don’t have the personality to be a consultant to be an entrepreneur, to be a risk taker, the worst mistake you can make is if you’re not built for that to go out and try and do it, you’re going to fail and you’re not going to be a happy camper. But then you could s o and this is outside your monograph, but you could then look for another job as an employee has a statue and that night count, boss, absolutely no it’s not outside the monograph. I counsel people that all the time that you know what, you strike me as a really great person, terrific at what you do. But my bet is you would be better off if you’re not happy here. Look for another job is an employee. Don’t try to be a consultant. I don’t think you’re going to like it. All right? What about the attention deficit disorder you mentioned for? Well, that lady d’ya know what i mean by that? Is i i’m a multi tasker. I like to do several things at the same time. And i like working for a client very intensely, but then that burns down, and i’d like to go on to something else. And work just is intensely and come back to the first one sort of the way i do puzzles. So a lot of different juggling. A lot of different things that weren’t so yes, andi, i think that i could do that. I have personality for that. So in my work, that stands me in good stead. But it’s, not for everyone. Some people like to have a single task. Like to stay with it. I have a daughter who’s, a scientist totally opposite from me. She likes to sit in her lap and concentrate on one thing for a very long time. The you also mentioned discipline. Your your time is your own right. You gotta manage it. Right? Your time is your own. You have to manage it. And these days, more people work from their home krauz. And that makes it even harder because there are a lot more distractions for many years. First one, i had a company. Then i sold it. Then i was a smaller company. I’m still a smaller company, but i switched from having an office on fortieth street. Toe working from my loft downtown and i didn’t realize how much of a shift that would be because there’s a discipline in just getting on the subway and going to the office and being in an office, i thought i’d been working at home, on and off forever. I didn’t realize what a big difference actually being near all the time would make, but because i am a really disciplined person, i had no problem taking care of all my obligations, doing everything and still stirring the soup literally because i love to cook so i could handle that, and i know that that’s, not everybody. Some people just can’t do it, they procrastinate, they never quite get to work or they’re too busy shopping online. Teo, pay attention if you feel that you have the personality than what what’s the first step. I mean, imagine you have to have some money to get started. I think you have to think about what you’re earning now and either how long you can go without an income or what, at a minimum, do you need for the first year? And if you’re really conservative as i am in some regards. Maybe over three years, how much would you have to generate in order to maintain a lifestyle that you would feel comfortable with? And don’t make the mistake of thinking that when you work for non-profits as a consultant, you’re unnecessarily going to make more than you did as a salaried person? That’s something we haven’t talked about yet? It is not written that because you’ve become a consult, buy-in you will make more than you did before? No, not necessarily. Maybe if you’re at the lower scales of not for-profit employment, you will, but i see top people who were making two, three hundred thousand dollars a year laid off their very unlikely to make that as a consultant any time soon. Okay, the balance would be, i guess, quality of life, the balance is quality of life, and i think along those lines in deciding whether you want to be a consultant, decide whether you’re going to be regional and sleep in your own bed every night, or whether, like me, you get hives if you don’t get airline tickets twice a week, so this is sort of leading to marketing, which is which goes to the point. You’ve mentioned twice, is different to get in and versus staying in. You’ve got if you’ve got your first one or two clients, you’ve got, you’ve got to keep it up. There are really three pieces that have to be balanced out once you decide that you’re in this and you’re working at attracting clients, some marketing and branding is obvious of obvious importance website and so forth, so so within that you have to be willing to self promote right, you can’t be can’t be a shrinking violet really modest about your ability and what you can learn the value you can add through. No, i think, you know, and i think you need to have a track record that’s why i send people back to the office who haven’t really got the experience or a specialty or whatever. I regard myself as a generalist dahna with a an inch inch deep in a mile wide, and you can consult that way because you can hand off to specialists as need be, but certainly marketing and branding is one piece serving clients, of course, is the most important piece because the first client leads to the second and into the third and so forth, and of course, you have to manage a business and buy-in once you hyre receptionist, you’re a totally different game. Once you have employees, you really are in business, and a lot of folks will tell you that and it’s true, once you have employees, you’re working for them. They’re not working for you so it’s a totally different model than if you’re just by yourself. Bring calling yourself a consultant, which sounds like a way to get started because you don’t have that overhead. Right with hank goldstein and he’s, the author of the association of fund-raising professionals monograph. So you want to be a consultant? Let’s, talk about serving those clients because you made the point. Client referrals are critical and very inexpensive. Way to get the next client, right. Some of the most common way, ninety eight percent. How can you make sure? Oh, is that right? I think. It’s all word of mouth. Okay, i know there’s. Certainly in my practice, right? How can you make sure that you’re going to serve the clients? I mean, aside from having the experience service servicing multiple clients at the same time is a delicate balance it’s a delicate balance. And i think that for me and this may be oversimplified and we only have a limited period of time. I think the most important thing and serving a client is to make the correct diagnosis. The problem they come in with is almost never the problem arika and understanding what the problem is is ninety percent of the solution. It’s when you go to the doctor when she or he makes the diagnosis correctly, that’s most of the cure because then they give you a bunch of pills, but if they make the wrong diagnosis and they give you a bunch of pills, you’re not going to get better. I think it’s the same with serving clients, figuring out what it is they’re actually looking for, whether they understand that or not, and then delivering that that to me is the essence of the practice and that’s above the neck. It isn’t running around looking busy, it’s thinking it through and advising accordingly. Yeah, there are mechanical things to do in their important, but the first thing is to understand what the client really needs. So how come the c suite? People in a. Non-profit don’t understand what their problem is. They talk to themselves. Okay? What do you mean? Well, it’s, easy to too insular. I think very often, i think very often there’s insularity. I think that very often there trying to read their board and deliver what the board expects them to deliver hyre training to the test, so to speak and a cz organizations grow, they developed what i call hardening of the categories and it’s less possible for them to think freshly. One of the great advantages you bring as a consultant is your gut and your enthusiasm and your experience. But most of all, your honesty not to be a nice guy, necessarily. You don’t have to be a bad guy, but you have to be willing to tell the truth. And oddly enough, people don’t always like to hear the truth. If they look fat in that dress, you have to be able to tell them that, and they don’t always want to hear it on dh the they’re often more receptive to that difficult to hear message when it is an outsider who they’re paying a fee to versus somebody on the inside is a staff person, right? I can’t tell you the number of times i’ve been in a situation where someone said, but you know what? I’ve told them that, but they won’t listen to me. They’ll listen to you that’s because you’re outside, yes is very important to have that independence, but got to make the most of it and that khun b o okay, well, forget what i was going to say. What do you mean, make them? Well, you have to make the most of it by being a good consultant. You have to listen, we’re not in listening mode right now. We’re talking, but i’m listening. I know you are, and i appreciate it listening to what the client says help to make the right diagnosis, listening carefully on not just popping off. So when you do deliver a judgment it’s considered even if you i had a hypothesis before and turned out to be exactly right, you try to hear it through before you deliver a sermon about what they should be doing. What did you say your name was? No winkelstein i’m listening gets harder and harder, so the part of what i was going to suggest is that this can also be very gratifying. As a consultant, because you can bring the perspective and there’s a greater likelihood that it will be heated. It’s a great insight that we haven’t talked about that there’s a great satisfaction in helping folks, but you have to also keep in mind that a client has an inalienable right to reject your advice, and they do that about fifty percent of the time. So the best thing you can do is deliver it and hope for the best. Very often, i find myself way out in front of my client on a particular matter, and instead of being either egotistical about it or frustrated about it, you accept them the way they are. You try to bring them along, but it’s very important that you respect their perspective. So even with that limitation is very satisfying to be changing the world let’s, talk about some of the harder side the financial side of this. You said that one of the early questions you get, you can read it in people’s faces. How did they not so much what to charge yet? We’ll get to that. But how do you decide how you’re going to charge for your time? To clients, yes. What i tell people or advised people who are thinking about this question about what am i going to charge? What salary would you like to be able to maintain? Just take a number, whatever it is, one hundred thousand fifty thousand seventy five, whatever it doesn’t matter, add thirty percent for taxes and maybe some benefits, or even thirty five percent. Um, where you going to sit in your garage or in your kitchen? Or you’re going to have an office? What other expenses air? You’re going, tohave. You gonna have to upgrade your computer. You’re gonna have to have new phone lines. Figure out a budget for do-it-yourself when you have all of that done. That’s your base that’s the amount that you have to cover. That’s the nut, as we say and that’s where you that’s where you start, everything on top of that is money that comes into the business. Remember that you have to market it and branded buy-in you have to be able to find clients. And sometimes that means traveling, which is not compensated. You have to spend time writing proposals that are not acted on. You have downtime on you have to. Build into your fee the fact that you’re not able to deliver five days a week, every single month if you have an application rate of seventy or eighty percent that’s sensational. And what does that mean? An application? Right? Well, that means that even in a place like mckinsey, they can’t keep an employee an associate one hundred percent of signed, even a law firm can’t keep an associate or a partner one hundred percent of sign there’s certain amount of downtime, that’s not covered. And you have to build that into your structure. I wanted i asked you because i want to keep you out of jargon jail on this show. We have judge jails in jail. No, i hope i haven’t gone near no. You traded closely. But i kept you out most. Most people i could do that for. Thankyou. So in just a minute or so that we have left all these factors go in to deciding how you’re going toe. How you’re going to charge for your time. Yes. And then you know how much you’re going to charge, right? And then you can divide it anyway. You want you can divide it by day, hour week, however, and charge accordingly, i generally i i prefer a per diem it’s, easy for clients to understand. It’s, easy for me to understand. I was a liberal arts major. I’m not real good at math, so i know that labbate that works for me, okay? Hank goldstein is the author of. So you want to be a consultant for the association of fund-raising professional he’s, also principal partner of the orem group consultants to non-profits hank, thank you very much for being a guest, thanks very much. Been a pleasure. We’re going to take a break when we returned. Tony’s, take two, and then i’ll be joined by jonah, helper of the nextgencharity conference. Stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharpe, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com no. Welcome back to the show. Time now for tony’s. Take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour, my block post from last week was separate the juice from the pits. Juicer in a restaurant that i like on twenty third street organic. I saw it and i saw in action and it got me thinking about fund-raising and how you should allocate your time to things that are valuable, the juice and disassociate yourself from things that can be big. Time draws the pits and it’s getting a good number of comments. So that’s what? I want to talk about it again this week, someone sheila bonem sheila recommended. She suggests the daily five that you always make five calls to donors every day, irrespective of everything that’s going on around you. Your goal is to always do at least five calls a day and those other things that could be going on around you. Could the administrative requirements you know, meetings could be volunteers sort of committee work that can take a lot of time, but she always tries to make five calls a day. Two donors toe. And also i think that probably helps ground her. In what her riel work-life needs to be, it could be very centering. I think nancy, in the comments on the blogged, shared her bless and release approach, meaning that you have to recognize when a relationship isn’t going to be fruitful and, as i said earlier, sort of start to disassociate yourself from that person or that relationship could be a corporate relationship to not necessarily individual person. So some very, very good comments on the block this from last week’s post the post again to separate the juice from the pits. Um, your time is valuable and it’s limited and that’s basic message you’re not just going to find time, you have to make it so make it an allocated wisely. And my blogged as always, is that mpg a dv dot com with now jonah helper in the studio. Very pleased that he’s with me. He is co founder of the next-gen charity conference along with our e t men who couldn’t make it today. And jonah is a consultant to non-profits his company is altruicity jonah helper. Welcome to the show. Thrilled to be here. Thank you. Pleasure to have you now. And i want people. To know that this show my show, by the way, it’s twenty martignetti non-profit radio because you’ve forgotten the name of the show that you were listening to, um, we are a media sponsor of the next-gen charity conference, but sadly, yes, you are with you from the first last year, and we’re going with you this year too. Why did you and ari start? Nextgencharity last year short, i was a professional fundraiser for the better part of ten years right out of school, twenty years old started doing it and loved it. Absolutely that i actually my first job, i didn’t even realize it was a fund-raising job. It was called the campaign job, and i thought it was political. I get there, i find out it’s actually fund-raising but but what i what became really my calling was the education piece of this? What happens is if you’ve a donor and you want to get from zero to ten thousand dollar gift there’s an education that happens. There’s a buy-in there’s ah there’s, a riel passion that you’re trying to convey over to this individual getting bought it and that’s what excited may andi throughout my ten years doing fund-raising i began to see a knowledge gap. I saw that the big organizations where i was trained was trained in the jewish federation system. Established been around one hundred years. You know, incredibly, you know, incredibly successful, sustainable organization. But what i found was that became very insular, very kind of focused on on who they were. I’m not really looking outside some of what goldstein was saying earlier. Precisely. I definitely identified with that on dh. You know, being young, definitely the federation system. I was on the news on the young end of the spectrum, i began to realize that the big organizations were not looking outside of their usual peripheral vision on does great things to be learned from all people. In fact, everybody does some things right. And if you believe that to be the case, if your antennas are up, you begin toe look, successes that happened outside of your organization, or even your industry, or even outside of the non-profit world. And, you know, being somebody who is constantly looking toe learn, i felt that there was this need to develop something that would be built around ideas, you know, and then ultimately became a conference around ideas my men ar e he was on the committee of mine when i was working for a special needs organization. He was there very vocal kind of that loose cannon on the rolling deck spoke his mind was very opinionated, but a lot of the same things that we were a lot of the same issues that we had in the nonprofit world. We realized that we have this common interest to see this education happen and kind of over a falafel or swarm on whatever it is. It was almost like that cliche, right? The business model on a napkin, and we said, we can do this. We were inspired by other conferences, but like the ted conference or gel where they were built around ideas, they weren’t built around certain institutions. It wasn’t just for fundraisers or wasn’t just for marking people wasn’t just united ways it was basically, if you have something innovative, something is game changing. We invite you to come and share that, whether it’s on stage, you know, whether you’re one of our successful presenters and you get on station share that or even in the audience. I mean, we have great, great audiences with people from all over, from startups to meet major marquis names. And they have a lot to learn from each other as well. Now, i am disappointed that you didn’t know that between short on dh, full off. Now. I’m very one is a deep fried, and the other could be lamb or chicken. So you mentioned ted in jail that next-gen is based on those models? What makes next-gen a different type of conference. Okay, so the conference that most people are familiar with is the type where you may have a general session with some big flashy name that would be like a draw, you know? Wow, they no one, you know, keynote for the day, the plenary session precisely, and sometimes that person has some real value to add and sometimes it’s purely the name. And then most of the conference is built around workshops, workshops to teach you how to be a better fundraiser, better market or better, you know, keeping employees happy for whether it’s middle, middle management or wasn’t where, whether its executives, that idea is to train them and have them in these workshops, and that happened throughout the day. The ted model andare model is to just have short innovation, innovative or game changing ideas shared on stage, like a broadway experience where instead of having workshops it’s that kind of general session or the keynote session, we’re taught where presenters speak on ly for up to eighteen mini snusz because that’s pretty much persons attention. Span. Oh, so that’s the longest long longest will hear a speaker is eighteen minutes exactly. And in fact, that speaker has a countdown clock on there on the stage. The countdown accounts down from there a lot of time so they know exactly how long they have. And for these presenters, these are people who have successes. Some are big names and some are not. But they have something that will really change the face of philantech. This is what you said earlier. Everybody does something. Well, precisely. Maybe some of us do most things well, but everybody does something well. And so you found what? People’s niches. Andi invited them to speak. It’s definitely curated. I mean, we we we we have a lot of focus on making sure that it’s the right person on stage, they obviously have to be eloquent and be able to convey their idea. There’s a lot. People of great ideas but may not be right to convey it, but at the same time, we want to give people a certain but a little bit of focus. Even though it’s not workshops, we want to unite people. An idea that they’re going to. Get something specific out of these presentations, so the theme the arc of the day this year is educate, inspire impact so educate focuses around the education system, but also about how knowledge and powers our decision making on about how constantly having your intent is up makes a world of a difference. I mean, a lot of us take that for granted, but if you’re not if you’re kind of in your tunnel, if you have that tunnel vision and you’re not looking around you, then you’re not in a learning mode. S o, you know, educate is one one aspect, and then we have inspire, which is, you know, anyone who gets into this business in philanthropy come in and come into it with great deal of passion, you know, my father is a partner in the firm, right? I’m sure unless it’s in the rules that, you know, children can’t work for the family, but the business for the partners, that would be something i could easily get into our investment banking. I mean, if i’m a good fundraiser from good at raising capital for non-profit, i might be good at raising capital for a hedge fund. And a lot more money to be made over there, so people who get into this line of work are doing it for a bigger reason than the paycheck s o they get into that, but when you start getting down to the nitty gritty and you’re dealing with the paperwork and you’re dealing with all the, you know, the more monotonous aspects of fund-raising or development or whatever you’re doing in the organization, you need to kind of really reignite that passion and remind yourself why you’re doing what you doing so that the inspire pieces there as well, and then the last one is impact there’s a great deal emphasis nowadays on accountability for organizations to say, you know, we’re going down this route, and we have measured reasons for doing it. Labbate a lot of every organization has noble aspirations for what they’re trying to accomplish with our mission, but i believe it’s, melinda gates who said it’s bowling in the dark, you maybe bowling for those pins, but if you’re not, if you don’t know where throwing you might not be being, you know, as effective as you can be, so we definitely have a focus. This year on the impact component as well and and what that means for the organisations in attendance, there’s a lot of conversation in the non-profit community about impact of i’ve had ken berger on ceo of charity navigator talking about impact and outcome measurements had an author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox on talk about the same thing, so impact of of the three i know that impact is a lot of what i’m hearing in the absolutely absolutely absolutely so so how many speakers they’re going to be on a two conference it’s amazing, you know we have right now, i think sixteen or seventeen, we always end up getting a couple aa couple late stragglers people kind of want to see how it all looks and then say, okay, i’m interested in doing it. It’s it’s a numbers game like in fund-raising we have our wish list, we ask our wish list and plenty them say no, but the ones that say yes, we celebrate in the office and ones that say no is just one more no before yes, we’re going to keep pounding them so the audience is going to see roughly eighteen speakers eighteen to twenty three bodies in the same argast ditore, iam speakers just come on and off the stage, you expect the theater. It’s it’s actually properties to the tribeca performing arts center. So it’s it’s, where they do the tribeca film festival, it’s, a it’s, a it’s, the real deal outstanding. My guest is jonah helper, co founder of the nextgencharity conference. We’re going to take a break, and, of course, john will stay with me, so i hope you do, too. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting. Do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors. Magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing hyre your services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is, we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com. Told you. Lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. The nextgencharity conference two thousand eleven is november seventeenth and eighteenth at the tribeca performing arts centre. You could get information registration, but next-gen charity dot com. My guest now is jonah helper he’s, cofounder of the conference. Who are we goingto see among these eighteen speakers coming across the theatre stage? Sure. All right, so some of them are big names. Craig, you mark from craigslist, who i believe was on your show was a guest on the show. Yeah. Talking about then he was talking about craigconnects. Okay. So what’s he going to focus? Well, obviously, craigconnects is one of his more recent projects that he’s doing he’s. I believe it was insider information, but i believe he is doing a talk on customer service. He kind of views himself as a customer service expert. And he has some really, you know, creative and resourceful things to share a two conference. And then we have other individuals, like dr peter diamandis, who is the founder of the x prize foundation. That is the foundation that gives big pools of prize money towards certain campaigns of innovation. So they want to get private spacecraft into space without, you know. The use of, for example, nasa, but to rely on ingenuity and teams a big pool of money, whoever could get into space, you know, fulfill a certain number of criteria and come back down, you know, alive and safe and that’s one of the projects that they’ll fund if they’ll find that they do something built deep sea exploration, their board is incredible if you look at their board, i mean it’s it’s, larry page from google and it’s james cameron, the director, obviously has the deep sea water thing don’t for him. It’s it’s, a real he’s got incredible board and so he’ll be talking at our conference about, you know, pushing innovation. We’ve got marc ecko who’s, a famous fashion designer echo unlimited here in new york city. Ah, he is a champion of ah breaking through bureaucracy he’s incredible, incredibly talented at spreading the word and also rattling the cage. He did a couple things definitely just google his name and see what he did to air force one. I’ll leave that as a teaser for you. How is his last name? Spelled e c k echo. Hey, is he has an organization on called unlimited? Justice that is, that mission is to stop corporal punishment in class and believe it or not, in twenty or twenty two states in the us, it’s still okay to hit a child in the classroom? The same states it’s it’s illegal to hit a prisoner in the prison system, but you can smack around a kid on dh that would sound like something that would be easy to change, you know, go to the you know, whatever it takes, we’ll go to the powers to be in the city in the state and say you can’t hit kids but it’s not so easy. This tremendous bureaucracy and he’s already gotten two states to change thiss wanted to put in a ruling to effect a law into effect that you can’t hit hit a kid in the classroom. So he’s another person who’s presenting we definitely have other unconventional ones. Teo neil strauss, famous journalist for the rolling stone magazine hey also wrote a book called the game, which is for for ah kind like the bible for how to pick up women he’s b he became the number two pick up artists in the world he was under taken. Under the wing from the by the number one in which for so we could write this book, he wrote this book tremendously successful, and we’re having him talk about how to seduce your donor. Oh, excellent, yes, it is interesting because you can go to a conference here in here from a gazillion fundraisers or consultants on how to fundraise. So we thought, well, how do we approach is from a new direction, you know, it’s about relationships and fund-raising about relationships and why don’t why don’t we have somebody? Who’s, an expert on relationships in a kind of a sexy, offbeat way? Give a talk, you know, to that end so definitely you can go online, see the full roster that we have, and we’ll be adding a couple more between now and the conference in november seventeenth. So, you know, we’re very excited with our ostro’s here, all right, and it’s eighteen to twenty speakers on that first day in november seventeenth and then what’s the second day eighteen okay, so the second day is very not traditional for unconference most conferences have predetermined workshops, you select rich which workshop you want to attend, so between the nine and eleven hour in the morning you could choose between four or five different topics sometimes, you know, i don’t know which one to go. This is very different. This’s calling unconference or open space. The model isn’t isn’t created by us, but it’s something that’s still not heavily adopted in the conference world. We’re basically attendees come no pre assigned agenda no preassigned workshops, they come and basically it’s a new agenda developed by the people who comes. So i get to the room and i say, okay, you know, i’m having problems of my organisation with donor attention or another person comes along and says, i’m trying to get volunteers how do i get volunteers? They come into the room big ballroom, big giant like three m giant post it notes they can write their issue and different a lot of areas in the room, they can post their issue, and then people congregate. Either they have answers, or they might have similar questions, and they can network around those issues. So it’s kind of organized chaos where where they come in and they and they get the solutions that they need andi network on a high level you know, we’ve all been to conferences with networking the conversation khun tend to be very superficial. You know where you’re from when you go on home. What did you have for breakfast? This is networking in its finest form it’s around the issues. And so do you know how many issues will you’ll be able to accommodate what we have? I believe we have the ability to accommodate ten issues at a time we have in the big bar and there’s these ten pillars which kind of create these natural pockets for people to congregate around. And we’re gonna let people post their their issues around these areas. We wanted to be organic. We want people to be ableto get the solutions that they need. And we’re not going to try to put a square. You know peace in a round hole. We want to give them the ability to say this is your programme. This is your agenda. This is your networking event. Get the solutions that you need, not the ones that we think you need. And how many blocks of time do you have allocated, teo? Ten topics per block. So? So basically the you know, the whole of the second day the conference, which actually is at the broad street ballroom, which is about a mile away from the tribeca performing art center, which is on day one, the broad sea ballroom wait, we’re going to be in there from nine a m to one p m and so the first two hours is going to be focused on this this unconference a smile where people can write their issues the second two hours with lunch in between is going to be industry round tables. So if you are in the health, carrie, you know, area of philanthropy or if you’re in education or if you’re in sciences or the arts, whatever it is, you can network with people in your industry so instead of it being a random experience at another, not another conference, you’re able to congregate with other people who are in your areas of expertise and then have these, you know, with these around table captains or hosts from the attendees lead the discussion with that with that round table group in each of the you know areas and the conference is the next-gen charity conference it’s november seventeenth and eighteenth with the second day being an unconference it’s ah, at the tribeca performing arts center on day one and jonah what’s day to where’s the forty, forty one broad street is the broad street ballroom. You could get information about the conference and registration at next-gen charity dot com. And as i said, this show is a proud media sponsor. You have one more thing to absolutely, you know, because you were one of our earlier doctors. Well, you know, we’ve made early adopter discounts available to attendees, which are no longer available because you were an early adopter. We want your audience and your friends and your colleagues to have that early adopter price. So if use the tony radio as a discount code, check out, you’ll take three hundred dollars off the price, which isn’t available to anybody else. Can i block that? Absolutely. Tony radio. Tony radio. Any idea? Check out. Excellent. Thank you, jonah. Thank you very much for being a guest. Andi, i also want to thank hank goldstein next week. It’s going to be year end giving tips. That’s going to be the subject. But i don’t know yet who the guest is. Going to be so if your ah fan of the show on the facebook page, you will find out, but that’s going to the topic next-gen next week, you’re in giving tips, and then scott koegler, our regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news is going to share the latest in tech for your shop. Keep up with that’s coming up for pete’s sake. Sign up for the insider email lorts on our facebook page. It’s, facebook dot com, of course, and then the name of this show like us click that like button you can listen live or archive you’ve been listening live listen archive it’s on itunes every show is archived there. Find our itunes paige at non-profit radio dot net the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting. His sam liebowitz and our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. Help you be with me next week for talking altum at talking alternative dot com the show tony martignetti non-profit radio always big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent next friday one to two p, m eastern. Well. Think think, think, think, think, think, think, think. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. You waiting to get a drink? Cubine duitz looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? 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Sure you’re neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york time go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. That’s ivory tower radio dot com for the average, our is a great place to visit for both entertainment and education listening tuesday nights nine to eleven it will make you smarter. Do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission. One one media dot com. Talking.

062: Excel In Email Execution – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Dave Poulos, chief consultant, Granite Partners
Claire Meyerhoff, editorial director, The Planned Giving Company

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Durney welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host last week on the april fool’s edition, it was ask awareness for small shops that was with amy eisenstein. She’s, the author of fifty, asks in fifty weeks, and she shared lots of valuable insights for opening up relationships, identifying prospects, cultivating and soliciting all for small development shops. In fact, one of our listeners posted to the facebook page that it was the best hour she spent all week last week. I appreciate that this week we excel in email execution, it’s going to be dave pulis davis principle of granite partners and he’s going to share five elements of effective email marketing and also have other tips about list hygiene. Are you getting the most out of your e mail? How do you develop an email list if you don’t have one? Is your list hygienic and only engaging in safe practises? Also claire meyerhoff claire is editorial director at the plant e-giving company, and she is this show’s creative producer claire’s going to reveal how to write for email fund-raising so that your messages get opened rid. And responded to so we’re all about email in this hour between my guests, it’s tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour, and this week on tony’s, take two five ways to be a planned e-giving evangelist or an evangelist for whatever it is that you love doing that’s on tony’s, take two. So we’re all about email this week. After this break, i’ll be joined by dave pulis and where we’ll get started with our excel in email execution show. Stay with me. Did the shooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding? You’re listening to the talking, alternate network waiting to get in. Good. Cubine is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl are said to want to nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio were all about email today, and i’m joined now by dave pulis. Dave, how you doing? Good morning. Thanks for having me, it’s my pleasure to have you welcome. Dave is the ceo and chief consultant of granite partners, which you’ll find out granite hyphen, part p a r t dot com he has been creating successful marketing programs for clients, mostly in the washington d c metro area for over twenty five years, and i’m very glad that his work and his expertise in email marketing specifically bring him to the show. Welcome again, dave, thank you, david. What does somebody do if they don’t have an email list to get started with him as well? Talk about building the list before we talk about what to do with it. Uh, there are a number of approaches that depends on what situation you’re in. If you’re looking for consumers, there are off a lot of ways to build a consumer list. Um, one of the more prominent and more recently evolved is the social media. You can use social media to evolve yourself into an e mail list based on friendster, facebook twitter followers linked in connections those kind of things can all be gathered and uses a colonel for a personal sort of networking list that you can use to promote whatever business you’re in. Okay, we’re non-profits fundraisers, it’s a little more complicated. Okay, well, that’s let’s deal with complicated cause. Our audience is small and midsize non-profit so that’s that’s where we want to be how should they go about it if they have a list of people who have been supporting them? Maybe just for a couple of years, maybe for many years, but they don’t have email lists. Uh, probably the first thing to do is make sure you have permission to communicate with their members are builders. They say something. Do you have a least an address for them? Send him a postcard asked him to send you back their email address. In response, you’ll give them some sort of data special report or a copy of research or something the value to them in response in return for them giving up their email. Okay, so use their their physical address to get their email address or okay on your website if the organization has a website. And you simply ask visitor’s log in before they can access certain pieces of it or certain information that they need include a lot to give them your e mail address. In that way, you can collect it and use it for later. Okay, so maybe not to get to your home page, but to get to some deeper content on your site. You mean then then there’s ah, little there’s an access that requires email address that’s one good way to do it. Because you’re making sure that it’s not just a casual visitor, you’re having themselves collect by their level of interest. Okay, okay. What’s, what you would end up doing if you if you put it on the front of the home page, you’re going to get every tom, dick and harry that entered that in the search. They wanted to see the front page and make sure they got to the right spot. See if there’s anything of interest there at all, you make them register, you get their email address, you send out e mails. You wasted all that time, money and effort to maintain the list. And they have no interest in on what you’re offering right? Ok? Or you might even just turn people off who might have an interest, but they said just to see the home page, i have to sign in, right? Right, you’re going to get some abandonment issues, they’re for your for your web page as well, and there are people that have a legitimate reason to see your front page and can use the information, but that you don’t want to write. I love how you call it abandonment. I’m not going to put you in jargon jail for that way have jog in jail here on tony martignetti non-profit but i already know you. I said it and then you called it abandonment. I just love the you know everybody every every business has its has its language. So abandonment issues. Yes, of your plus, if you know if you having spouse problems, that could be an abandonment issue. But we’re not going that deep again. That’s a different show that’s ahold of yes that’s a whole different person. Um, abandon ministers? Yes. Alright. What about what about events? And if you’re hosting an event, maybe just put post cards on the table at the events or something like that. Anytime you’re gathering an environment where you have potential donors or potential participants, you want to make sure you’re gathering, collecting email addresses, okay, people importing them on their business cards. It’s a good way to start raffles contest, even offering as i do on my website content in exchange for the information we talked about it buying, offering by mail some sort of special report i offer electronically a report on my website and i forced people to give me their email address, so i consented to them. Okay, electronically and it’s, a much fairer trade and people who are looking for something to read like to receive free reading material and return. It makes a lot of that now. Will people see that example on the site that i gave the girl to granite hyphen p a r t dot com they will there’s a new report there on how engaged customers on the left hand column. If you click there, you’ll be able to download on a free pdf of a report guard through some research. We did a little while ago about how to engage customers. Also have tto log in. To give me your email address, i can send it to you, you’ll get a response back that tells you yes, we received your order, and if you like anything else, please let us know, and you’ll also get a confirmation of the fact that you received the order and a questionnaire about whether you like it or not. Okay, so i assume those are all the best practices because you’re doing them for your business, it’s all automatic. I don’t have to do a dog gone thing, and it makes people connected to me much better and gives them a lot more opportunity to give me feedback on the information. And unless they collect their name without creating too much of a problem with their identity and something you alluded to in that description of the way you’re recommending things go about o r non-profits go about building this list is having permission. What? What is what is permission? Marketing and how do we get permission? Permission marketing is a critical step in producing effective push down marketing. What you’re essentially doing is letting people to give you their permission to market to them. And that does two things. One engages their level of interest and let them self select what they want to receive. Two it also tell you how they want to receive it by medium, he opted in is a way of gathering permission marketing. If you send out an e mail to all your members, say ifyou’re non-profit membership organization and say, we’re updating our record, we’d like to give you would like you to give us your email address so we can communicate with you that way. Check the following boxes about what’s appropriate what the best address to use is if we have this information correct listed below. Check that and we’ll keep that. And also, if you do not like to receive anything from us, check the box below to opt out, so opt in permission has sort of past it if you give them an opt out option it’s a little less over on a lot of people to sort of ignore it, which gives you sort of tacit permission to market to them. But the trick is they’ve given you the information and are allowing you to market to them directly without being directly at fort alright, and then you as the e mailer as the non-profit have a responsibility to honor all those selections that the person has made. Absolutely. And if you don’t honor them, your reputation with that person and in general, gets tarnished to the point where it’s almost unusable, and we’ll go into that a little further with, with the a little later on. Ok, we’re going to take a break right now. My guest is dave polish. We’re talking about excellence in email, execution, stay with us, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. 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If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two, eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com oppcoll dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna hello and welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio we’re live today with dave polish. We’re talking about excel in email execution and since we’re alive, that means we’re taking calls so you can call with a question for dave about female best practices. Frustrations you might be having the number is eight seven seven for a tow for one two oh eight, seven, seven for eight o for one two. Oh, dave, now we’ve developed this list. How do we keep it clean? What’s a clean list? Well, cleanly is one that functions and deliver your message precisely where you wanted to go every time. And there are a couple of things that you need to start with. You’ve built a list that you think is right. The first thing is to make sure that what you start with is good, that we all know about computers, garbage in, garbage out. You have to make sure that you all the addresses fit and conformed to the format for proper email address. Okay. Typos, bat fingering the addresses, getting things backwards, transposing characters. Email addresses are far, far higher accuracy level than postal address. Write the e mail. I just has to be exact, right has to be perfect, another perfect every time or it will not go. I know what you have to do is check it bilich manually and electronically to make sure that all conforms and you, khun, send every piece of mail on their towards both to go ok is the simplest way to do that. To send a test email to someone to verify that on dh, then get their permission in the way you described is that is that a decent way to do it? Uh, you’re better off eyeballing a list firsthand mechanical and then going through optically and and making sure you haven’t missed anything. Because if you get things wrong, you may get stuck or trapped in filters and create problems. And what that’s going to do is block you when you get the right of duitz okay, you want to clean it up visually? First, as best you can make sure that all the symbols are right before the domain name it’s not a exclamation point instead because i’m gonna get the wrong key. Happens a lot. You can do search and replace doing this. It takes very little time. To do it electronically and then go through and i bought a list they just have to three people looking over, make sure there’s no glaring errors. You want to make sure that all the domain names that have the letters spam in them are taken out those traps put in there by the sometimes when you rent list more often than not, but occasionally somebody’ll flip one in there. When they’re registering, they’ll give you a bogus address that doesn’t really exist. You want to pull out the ones that have a domain name that’s sort of suspicious looking, you’ll learn about it after a while to make sure you’re getting exactly what you think you’re getting, okay, so to get behind to get into the content, let’s say so this wouldn’t thiss wouldn’t be people filling out cards at an event, probably or mailing back in response, it’s when registering so people might give bogus address you know i don’t have such a good hearted person, i don’t even think of e don’t even think of people cheating on something so simple is that really learned over time that it’s ok, you fill out a form somebody’s going to send you back something, and often those lists are sold over and over and over again, and by the time the third generation sale is over, you have no relevance to the list of all right, and you’re getting stuff that you really don’t want it clogging up your e mail box, and you don’t want that, so they either make up a fake address to give you so that bill passed through the filters as a legitimate address initially, or they’ll give you one that they never open, which isn’t gonna do you any good. Anyway, a lot of those gmail accounts or a well accounts that are free people will just have one of those strictly as they used to fill out all that junk drops into there. I see you don’t want to be in that list. You want to see a legitimate lift with a legitimate carrier, verizon or comcast, or or one of those for home and the businesses typically you want them to reflect the domain of the business there. Part of that tells you a legitimate what gmail but gmail dahna all those could be legitimate accounts, you couldn’t you couldn’t screen all those out? No, you can’t, but you can see one that looks, uh two, far from their real given name. If you have that to compare it to, uh, nobody’s registering, you know, as nerd sixty five jool and they’re not giving you a scientific address or their name is fred spelled backwards or something. You start to look at the bogus ones and figure it out. Okay? And since you did mention something that we hadn’t talked about in developing the list, let’s, talk a little about purchasing a list. What is that valuable for the small or midsize non-profit purchasing a list rental and compiled lists can be of value. You have to be very careful about the source if you go through a legitimate list broker and you’re looking for a very legitimate piece of a database that concerns especially business addresses. Yes, you can gain a lot out of that because those things have been double opt in check they’ve been verified on a monthly basis that they do exist and they are really and that they do fit the profile that you’ve selected when you rented the list. Now you have to keep in mind that those are usually for one time use only, and you cannot reuse them unless you have a special agreement from the renter compile lists are another story, those of those public things that you could buy that say have been scraped off of websites or have been captured out of the air from from email conversations and that kind of thing. Hackers will market these things to bring an extra bucks. They’re not very useful, they’re not very male herbal, and you’re getting into some serious spamming trouble by even attempting to use most of them because they’re loaded with with the monitors and traps and keys in their little tell people that you’re ok, then you want to be working with a legitimate company that you can verify you mentioned scraping off female what’s your trading closely to jorgen jail has, and it sort of has a a suggestion of what it is, but but i don’t want you to even be anywhere near drug in jail. So what? What is scraping somebody’s? It sounds like unsavory practice. It isn’t unsavory practice in its connotation, and it is information what you want to avoid. There are people out there, who will go to a business website and literally capture copy paste electronically scrape off every email address that’s buried in there. Your entire staff listing all your if you’re going to a law firm, they’ve got every lawyer listed on there with a love with a separate email address for them, they’re going to scrape all those off of there and compile them all into a big list. Listen, this may be legitimate, but they don’t know who they belong to or what they go to what level of persons is they have no information that goes with it, it’s just a list of addresses, as if people would really want to communicate with a bunch of lawyers or anything. There could be no manufacturing firm or, you know, the post office website or anything. They just gathered a bunch of e mail addresses from a bunch of list. Sometimes they’ll use. They’ll sort of piggyback on someone else’s, the internet activity as well, and their going from site to site start scraping through that. Okay, it gets very, very tedious and very touchy when you start doing stuff like that because you have privacy issues, you have legal issues? Uh, spam laws have teeth in them. Ladies and gentlemen, they can sue you for spamming. So you want to be careful what addresses you’re using and who you’re sending? Okay? And i didn’t want to suggest that. Buying a list from from verifiable source would be a good way of trying to get donors. I mean, as a fund-raising consultant, i didn’t mean to suggest that this is a way to acquire new donors, but maybe to acquaint someone with your with your non-profit but you’d have to be very precise in the type of list you bought in terms of the interests of the people. Is that is that possible, dave, to drill into get a list of people who are interested in, i don’t know environmental activism, and but maybe in the pacific northwest, i mean, do the lists from vera from from stable and appropriate cos come with that level of detail, some do, and some do not, uh, they’re further a head for business than they are for kapin consumer availability, drilling that deeply. Okay, if you drill down into segments that deeply on consumer list, chances are good you’re gonna have to pay a pretty penny for it. A good place to start with that if you have a specific interest, they look bilich environmental, you would want to try going to print publication that deal with that concept sierra club or audubon society or any of those that deal in environmental issues routinely subscriber list from them could be segmented by geography. And you could also rent additionally, email addresses that go with those mailing address him that way. Excellent idea. Okay, because that, yes, you know, the publications targeted. Okay, great. All right, so we need to get around that trying to pull that out of a compiled list is virtually impossible. Okay. Okay, good. Thank you. So we’ve developed our list. We understand how to get it clean and make sure it stays clean. Has to be maintained another thing, because now thing out, once you’re going to get some activity coming back from it, not only response is that you want, but response is you don’t want your going to get people that ask you to take them off. You’re going to get because you missed the target. It wasn’t who you thought it was not interested. And they don’t want you to lock up their box for the next six months with stuff they don’t need. That’s a good thing. You like getting those out of there? Because that saves you time and money. Yes, too. You’re gonna have people that were out of the office that day and i just bounced back and told you they may get hurt or they may not. Three you’re going to have bounced back for another reason, theis, and that part of the country was a little slow that day and missed something. There was a glitch in in a certain segment of the internet that went down for a moment your mail got trapped in it could be any number of other things. There’s a whole series of bounce back code that the internet service provider will give you that helps you interpret those bounce back unless you separate them out and decide whether to keep that address that is a temporary thing or whether it’s permanent it’ll tell you if you got the address wrong, if that person’s not at that address anymore. If that business is not there, that remains not active. Whatever they’ll tell you. What the problem woobox with it, when you learn how to read the code, we got to get those out of there. Once you’ve sent the first one, you’re gonna have to be prepared with how to deal with all those. Things that bounce back and those happen fairly quickly, usually within the first hour or so after you send it. Okay, so that’s that’s really list maintenance and that that’s going to be happening every time you send to your list sounds like there will be a certain level of activity depending on how little that down to practically nothing. Yeah, alright, depending on how many people you’re mailing to if it’s just a few hundred, you’ll have fewer of those which is get you in fewer because you’re making good decisions based upon those code taking the bad ones that are going to be permanently bad out. All right, you’re not re mailing, right? Okay. So, uh, well, let me just remind people that my guest is dave polish he’s, the principal of granite partners. And we’re talking about ex selling in your email execution. So then, dave, we have developed our list and it’s clean, and we’ve gotten the appropriate permissions and we know how to maintain the list over time. You have some elements of effective messaging, actually. What to say? What? What? What’s. Your first bit of advice on what the content of the message should. Be, uh, some of it is what to say, and so that is how to say it. Okay, um, the first thing you’re going to notice is that with the new influx of mobile customers that are out there that have their email come to a mobile device, you have far less real estate with which to impress the recipients you have basically a from a dress and a single subject line that’s all they’re going to see on a mobile device there’s no preview function. So what you have to do is make sure that a the address you’re sending from is from a brand they will recognize or at least understand. So whatever service you are using to send these out, if its outlook, you have to set up a box that sort of carrie’s co-branded makes sense for the outgoing mail or if it’s a service, you want to make sure that they’ve gotten you on outgoing address that reflects your brand so that they know who this thing is from and they recognize. But wouldn’t wouldn’t the service just be using your own? You’re you’re non-profit domain name, sometimes they do, and sometimes they don’t they have what’s called rotating? Yeah, what’s. A rotating what’s, a rotating. Why would they understand? Why would they rotate for the same non-profit why would they use different domain names to send from? They’ll mask them behind an existing name, so the recipient will only see your name, but they’re using ten or twelve different outgoing addresses because they could shove more down the data pipe. That way they can spread your list out, get it out the door faster, but if you’re a non-profit you want it to come from your domain, absolutely time your domain is that the physical space that your domain inhabits doesn’t allow enough passed through dahna you can’t shove enough email through it fast enough because you just don’t have enough bandwidth, you didn’t run enough stone, so what happens is they’ll spread it out and they’ll mask it. They’ll refer to your domain name. The recipient only sees your domain, which is good, but they’re using ten twelve different ones with sam filters will pick up on the sub and block things out on who’s, the who’s the day that we’re talking about is this a company like constant contact? Is that o r who’s today you’re referring to there are service providers after that do nothing but deliver both female. They are, they’re registered there, certified they’re they’re very, very compliant with the service providers that give you internet access and then actually deliver and carry the mail. This is a middleman that you would go to as a non-profit if you have a list of of ten or twenty thousand potential donors that you’re going to be sending to routinely, you’re not gonna be able to shelve twenty thousand addresses through your outlook account and with any kind of accuracy or time limit. Okay, so what you’re gonna do is anything over about two hundred names you’re gonna want to goto what provider that sends out both female for a living that’s all they do and is constant contact an example of what you’re talking about male chimp? Is that an example? Or there are eyes that i am i in the wrong line, the wrong space, you’re in a similar space in a different scale gostin contact and male chimp and those kind of things arm or of the do-it-yourself version of that, their sort of big versions of outlook, they’re attached to larger relation all databases that lets you get mail out in larger volumes by yourself from your workstation, ok, here, but if you’re sending ten and twenty thousand, even though we’re gonna have a problem, they’re going to start to bog down and go very slowly, and they’re going to use up a lot of bandwidth, okay, but for our audience of small and midsize non-profits the ones i mentioned, what might be suitable absolutely after they’re a great way to get started. If you’re looking at that between two and five thousand names of any kind. Yeah, constant contact, be a very good bargain, ok, dave, we have just a little less than a minute left. Why don’t you tell us what you think is coming next? What’s the what’s, the next generation of email going to look like email’s going to get a lot more robust in the next six months to a year, you can bet on the fact that you’ll be able to embed photographs and video in your outgoing e mail and have it be interactive and reacted currently, if you put an image in an email, you run the risk of having it be screened out by spam filters or by network. Firewall because they don’t allow images, they scan for them and they remove the as being too large, and they cut down on the volume of data traffic so they get rid of them. So if you’re putting an image in there, one of the things we tell people who don’t let the image tell the entire story, have some text that tells the story because the image probably going to make it and you see video coming in email, absolutely video will be able to be embedded in outgoing email beyond the capability we have today where it’s, just a lincoln it’s, actually resident somewhere else. We’re going to be able to actually carry video imagery on before too long. All right, we have to leave it there. Dave pulis principle of granite partners, which you’ll find at granite hyphen part piela dot com dave, thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you for your excellent ideas. Pleasure. Enjoy it. Thank you very much. After this break, it’s tony’s, take two. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Geever oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing effort. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy contact them today. Admission one one media dot com hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business, why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back. It is roughly thirty two minutes after the hour, which means it’s time for tony’s take two, and after that, i’ll be joined by claire meyerhoff and we’ll continue talking about ex selling in email execution five four tonys take two five ways to be a plant e-giving evangelist something i blogged about this week, it actually could apply to anything that you that you do that you love doing, and i hope you really love the work that you do so much so that you want to evangelize about it. I chose planned giving as the subject of my evangelism on this week’s blawg, and i’ll just share a couple of the things that i think go into being an evangelist for what you do. Yeah, i love it, you know, in my example, you gotta love plant e-giving you gotta recognize that it has value for non-profits and for donors and for their families, and recognize the good that it khun do for society as you’re helping charitable missions. So whatever it is that you want to evangelize about, you really have to love it and be unashamed about your love of it don’t talk you know sort of humbly or shyly about whatever it is you want to evangelize about, you got you need to be out in the open, you need to be enthusiastic, which should be easy because you love what it is you’re talking about, so carry that enthusiasm don’t don’t don’t talk, you know, sort of humbly about your your love of the subject you want to evangelize about lear, love of your work and and and as you’re being unashamed, spread that word, spread it to people that you work with, people who are in your network that you don’t work with, um, when the topic comes up, you know, what do you do? What do you love doing? You want to be unashamed about sharing it, and you want to use the opportunities that you have to spread the word. And so those are three of the ways that i think you could be a plant e-giving evangelist or an evangelist about whatever it is you love to do, and you can see my blogging m p g a d v dot com for more on those ways and a couple of additional ways as well, and also always the reminder that we are on itunes you can subscribe at itunes, listen and get automatic downloads of the show and listen at your leisure on the device of your choice, whether that’s, tablet or phone or desktop or laptop and that is always at non-profit radio dot net that is tony’s take two for friday, april eighth. I’m joined now my guest is claire meyerhoff. Claire, how are you doing, tony, right, how are you? Pleasure to have you back. I’m well, thank you very much. Claire meyerhoff is editorial director at the plant e-giving company, and she is the creative producer of this show. We’re going to talk about howto write for email fund-raising so that your messages get opened, read and respond to do so. Continuing the topic of excel ing in email execution claire so dave paulus sort of left us with write a perfect point, i think, talking about the header of the email he talked about where it’s from what’s your advice about the subject line of the email? Well, the subject line is really important because if you think about your own email use, what do you do? You’re on your iphone slip. Through it. So the subject find is very important and what you want to do, it make really some buddy. So so whatever you are promising them, you need to deliver it on the inside. All right, clara, i’ll tell you what were you sure need to repeat? Actually, what you said about the subject line because you were you’re breaking up. You’re on a landline, right? I am on a landline, and i’m hearing some feedback. Okay? I know the feedback is a little challenging. Try toe, i guess. Talk through the feedback and or maybe not listen so much, but just just talk on dh when you’re done talking, then put the earpiece back to your ear. But could you tell us again what your advice is for the subject line? I’ll do that. Ok, ok, my advice for the subject line is the subject line is going to be the thing that the person will either open it for. They will delete it so your subject line needs to be something that is really, truly news. What? What is it that you are going to be telling people or you want them to do or you want them to hear about most? So put that in there and basically only about thirty characters or so because they don’t even see the rest of us. Put your good stuff up front. Yeah, you sort of have to write that like headline, right, it’s, it’s, a lot like a headline and think about the news business and think about why you pick up a newspaper and read it it’s because of the headlines and any new yorker knows that york post the daily news, they’ve had a long history of really pretty interesting headlines that really grabs your attention. So think about the same thing with your non-profit what is your non-profits headline? And what is the headline for this newsletter that for sending people something generic, like may newsletter june newsletter? Okay, yeah, i have to. Yeah, the new york times are the sari, the daily news and the new york post. My favorite. Well, one of my favorites there’s a whole book about new york post headlines, which is it’s called topless body in head headless body in topless bar. Aunt, i have a copy of that, but it’s a headless body in topless bar from a murder. But one of my favorites was when jack cousteau’s ship crashed and the headline was calypso collapse. So isn’t that genius? I just have to show you right now, it’s go on and you’re like a save the whales organization. You’re not gonna have that to live so collapse. So are anything like that? So i think that’s pretty cool, it’s. Hard to be that clever. But those clever and you know what? If you were that clever, someone would probably open up your email. Certainly. What do you have any other advice for? The for that header information. Uh, maybe the from la who should be from or or any other advice there. Well, unless everybody knows that lisa is the head of your organization, it shouldn’t be from one person instead, make it from your organization and have it the name something that is sort of more of an action. Kind of a word. Like not information, but news. Maybe, you know, news at habitat for humanity, dot com or something like that. So give it give it a name that is a little newsy sounding might get someone’s attention better than, say, info at or or you know, something really generic and, you know, keep again, keep it really, really short. And you put the key words right up front and whatever some buzz words are that air right now in your field. So if sustainability or something is a good buzz word, that and so definitely just put the key words right up front that the main thing, okay? And you mean in the from line, so maybe sustainability at the domain is that is that what you’re suggesting? I’m talking about the subject line, so okay, you have your nature organization, and you’re always talking about sustainability, and the name of your newsletter is something with sustainability. Perhaps that could be your email address. I hadn’t thought of that, but it could be whatever, whatever you want. So that it’s recognizable and again it’s all about the brand and it’s recognizable and always be thinking about who your audience is. And i like to think of your email recipients, the people that will open the email and those are the ones we care about, the most people that actually open it, and then the few that follow through, right? Who were those people? Those are your most boyle people just like implant e-giving who were the best plan giving donors your boil donors, people, that e-giving for a long time with the people that are actually opening and reading. Your email, those who you’re really boils followers those year loyal supporters? Yes. Oh, so you’re you want you’re saying you want to have them in mind as you’re crafting your message? Exactly. Keep them in mind. What? What do they care about? So think about a few people that you know, supporters of your organizations have names and faces and think about what are they interested in? What is kathy interested in? What is robert interested in and crafted that way? Ok, on, daz were crafting our message. What’s your advice about how long it should be the subject line. Oh, no, the length of the body of the message. The body of the entire email newsletter should be chunked. So if you have, you know, one big article, you know, trumped that up into different articles. But faras length, you know, there’s. No specific lengths to into an e newsletter. It could be his long or short. As as you like. Think about the ones that you read and pattern yourself after that. If you’re bored after a certain amount of time, then your readers our board, pretty sure. Okay. What other advice have you got to share? I’ve been sort of, you know, suggesting topics, but you tell us tell me what? Your your advices. Well, here is some duitz do plan ahead. A newsletter done that’s on the fly usually looks like it’s been done on the fly. So plan your news letter ahead of time and that means preparing an editorial calendar. Maybe for the whole year. How often are you going to send these out? If you feel like you can send out one a month that’s great. And then think about what you might be doing in those months. Like, if you know, your annual report is coming out and you’re gonna have a lot of new information, then you know that khun, your main news letter might be packed with a lot of great, um, like statistical information, all kinds of cool stuff that you know about in may, but of course in december of the holidays, so you know that you can do holiday related things, so come up with an editorial calendar, so if you’re going to do it once a month, pick a day that you think is a good day to send it out when your readers are most likely to read it and then plan ahead, say well in in february and do this in march. We’re going to do that and have a couple of things knowing full well, what what’s going on if it’s september back to school and that’s important for your organization. Well, then that’s your back to school newsletter and you know you’re going tohave information about that and also decide on a goal before you do your newsletter what’s. The goal of the newsletter is the goal just oh, well, we want to tell people a bunch of stuff that’s going on. Well, that’s not a goal. What’s your real specific goal. Are you entering into a campaign? Are you announcing something? And you want everybody to know about it? Are you trying to raise money? Are you trying to get people to come to an event to sign up for a walkathon? What is the goal of the newsletter and then work backwards from what your goal is. Okay, claire, we just have about thirty seconds before the break. You mentioned planning ahead. And maybe as much as a year as you’re developing your email marketing plan. You want that? To be dovetailed with your other marketing activities, right, you might be sending print pieces as well around your events, things like that, right, absolutely. And marketing is a huge challenge for most small non-profits. The person doing marketing is also doing fifty other things, so the more planned you khun b, the easier it makes your job, so have a little marketing plan for the year, even if it’s one page and it’s a calendar, we’re going to do this in january, february, march, april, may, june, july, august and it’s all about when you send postcards. When you send email, when you send a regular newsletter and other mailing, okay, we’re going to take a break. My guest is clear meyerhoff editorial director at the plant e-giving company were ex selling an email execution stay with us talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Durney i really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness can help you get back on track or start a new life and fitness. Join joshua margolis, fitness expert two one two eight sixty five nine to nine xero. Or visit w w w died mind over matter. N y c dot com upleaf do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing for mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing effort. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is, we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com. Talking dot com. Dahna hello and welcome back. I’m talking to claire meyerhoff and were ex selling in your email execution. Claire, you had a list of do’s that you wanted, teo continue sharing with us. Well, some other dues are due. Motivate your reader. You are sending this email to them, and you want them to do something and you need to motivate them to do it. And the easiest way to keep them unmotivated is too forthem, boring and dull. And the best way to do to motivate them is to tell them about something great that’s going on. That really would matter to them. So, do you have a really great event coming up? Do you have something really cool that you and your organization to tell people about it’s is? And news means it’s, usually something you what’s going on in your organization. That’s important to your reader? Not just what’s important to you? Yeah. You just finished your quarterly report, or or you have a new, you know, drink machine in the break room that might be important to you. But it’s not important to your readers. So think about the things that you are. Reader will think. Okay? And that’s consistent with your advice earlier just have a few people in mind and think about what’s interesting to them and write to that audience and think about what’s interesting to them also do the cocktail party saying or the or the coffee shop thing where if you ran into someone at starbucks and they said, hey, what’s new in your organization will help. Yeah, excellent, right? If you just had a couple of minutes, right? Excellent. Another any other dues? Uh, you might want to tell people why this is important now, which is usually through for fund-raising so what is going on right now? Why this is important. So if you’re an environmental organization and there’s some sort of threat that’s what you want to tell people about right now, we need to do this now you need to sign the petition. Now you need to send the money now we’re trying to fight it now your call to action it’s the call to action and make sure your call to action really is a call to action and that you’re writing matches the urgency of it. What i see a lot of times in email that i get from a lot of different non-profits is, you know, it’s sort of the henny penny email the sky is falling, they’re taking our rights away and they’re going to ruin the environment and they’re really bad, and i don’t really want to see that i want to see the action i want to see, like what you were doing, like, you know, we’ve got a bus on its way to this place full of volunteers, and they’re all going, and we need some gas money, like, i want to know what the thing is right now, the action that you’re doing that you need my help, why are you writing to may? Why is that news? So tell me that okay, before we get to your don’ts, which i’m sure you have, how do you make sure that you’re emails are consistent with your general identity for the organization? So they look like the rest of what you send out, whether it’s emails or website or or print well, that goes back to your marketing plan if you have one in some places, don’t you don’t have one it’s pretty common. So think about a couple of simple things that you always do and include that in your newsletter. So if you always have a pet of the month because you’re the animal adoption agency and you always have a pet of the month and you have a cute little name for it used that, make sure you use that in your in your identity, so use those identifiable things that you’ve already created, and if you don’t have some it’s time to create them, okay, so that’s excellent that’s the substance? What about just the appearance of the messages? How do you mean by the appear? What? What artwork? You might include the photos or our identity elements that you have for your non-profit well, i was listening todavia earlier about sending photos and e mails and how a lot of those get filtered out. So i’m definitely thinking about the photo thing because if people aren’t getting them that maybe not a great fool. I love photos if you can use photos, photos are the best and frankly, a lot of times your most loyal donors are also on facebook, and they’re a friend of your organization on facebook and as long as you’re not putting up things like ten times a day, they’re interested in being what you have there not gonna block you. Okay, so think about your facebook think about your email newsletter in conjunction with each other and how they can play off each other. So if you have a great, great photographic like the best photograph that tells the story of your mission like no other photograph, use that photograph a lot of times, repurpose it so you might want to send it in your e news letter and have it on your facebook and in your e newsletter say there are more photos like this on the facebook or on our web sights and people through the website where there are more of these great photographs and then take that really great that one great photographs and put it in your print newsletter used it on a postcard for fund-raising let’s say, you’re doing a little plan giving postcard campaign. Put that one great photo on that postcard so we use the good stuff that you have. Good, we have just about two minutes left. What are some of the don’ts that you want to share? Well, it’s funny that you say that because i try to be positive these days. So i wrote a big list. Do you have all dues and no don’t so i thought for sure. Ok, right around. Okay, well, so okay. Don’t don’t be not creative. Be creative, be creative use of environmental organization. And you just did a survey about ice source in your community. What are the top three? See, that would really get attention. So be creative with stuff. The good stuff that you have that’s interesting that your organization really had a handle on. So let’s say you are an environmental organization. You just did a big survey, and out of that survey results came the, you know, little thing that wasn’t the main focus, but in it was, you know, people complain the most about the certain areas in your county that we’re the biggest eyesores. Well, that’s a new story for you where you can say, what are the top three ugliest eyesores, the whole county. And you can do a lot with that that’s really interesting people will open up that email is your town, you know? Is this eyesore in your neighborhood? Why don’t you leave? Us with one more of your dues or however you want to phrase it dues or don’ts duse or don’t? Well, i like to talk about, you know, writing and words and storytelling, so just do tell really good stories that are about someone that affect other people don’t talk about yourself and how how great you are, talk about the people that you’re serving and how you’re solving prop emblems for people. I’ll give you this one. This is my one last tip i give everybody these days, you can’t think of a story, look at the money, find out a recent gift that you’ve got and how did you use that money? And then find the person that’s benefiting from the money that you’re using. So, for instance, if you just got a gift and you build a handicap ramp, who is benefiting from that handicapped wrapped rampant your facility to find that person and do a story about them and that’s where you find your story stories, they’re everywhere to follow the money, certainly because charities are doing good work so people who are people are benefiting those stories should be very common, right? Where’s the money. Going find, find someone benefiting from it and focus on them. And where would their life be without this organization? And where would their life be without specifically this money that just came in and how it was used? You had a big campaign. Everybody gave money, you raised thousands and thousands of dollars. Where did it go? Thank you very much. Thank you very much, claire. My guest has been clear meyerhoff editorial director at the plan giving company and creative producer for tony martignetti non-profit radio next week we’re going to be all about auctions if if we bring that a little further, may weaken do advertising and awareness advancements in auctions in america. But well, for right now will just stop with all about auctions silent, loud or online. What’s it all about auction’s. My guest is going to be roger divine of divine assistance and he’s going to explain what auctions are all about. I hope you’ll be part of that conversation on we’ll have a group sing at the end. Maybe also scott koegler, our tech guru, and he’s, our regular contributor. Of course, you know that he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news and he’s going to share what’s newest in technology for your non-profit keep up with what’s coming up on tony martignetti non-profit radio. Sign up for our email alerts on the facebook page at facebook dot com and then the name of this show. And while you’re there, like us, become a fan on itunes, as i talked about earlier, that is always found at non-profit radio dot net subscribed. Listen, any time on the device of your choice, as i said, a few times are creative producer is claire meyerhoff, our line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting is sam liebowitz, and our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. Booker t and the mgs composed our theme music. Thank you very much, guys. I hope you’ll join me next friday, one p m eastern for tony martignetti non-profit radio, as always on talking alternative broadcasting found at talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network, waiting to get you thinking. Dahna cubine are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing time? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com you’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. I really need to take better care of myself. If only i had someone to help me with my lifestyle. I feel like giving up. Is this you mind over matter, health and fitness can help. If you’re expecting an epiphany, chances are it’s not happening. Mind over matter, health and fitness could help you get back on track or start a new life and fit. Join Joshua margolis, fitness expert at 2 one two eight six five nine two nine. Zero or visit w w w died. Mind over matter. Y si dot com. Durney talking. Hyre

057: The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guest this week:

Robert Penna, author of “The Nonprofit Outcomes Toolbox: A Complete Guide to Program Effectiveness, Performance Measurement, and Results”

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Zoho welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio we’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope that you were with me last week for first segment the goods on google, plus our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, scott koegler shared insights into whether google plus is different than what we’ve already got in the social media space and how to help you to decide the answer to the question should we jump into google? Plus, when organization page has become available and we also did a live google plus hangout second segment last week was breaking down barriers. Megan galbraith, managing director at changing our world, had strategies to get public relations, communications and fund-raising working together for greater efficiency this week, the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox a complete guide to program effectiveness, performance measurement and results discusses the wave of reliance on outcomes, measurement and how small and midsize non-profits khun ride it comfortably alongside big shops and learn lessons from the corporate community on tony’s, take two from my block this week if donors are investors, then they need a motley fool. I think we’re going to see the rise of investment advisory services. There were a few, but mostly for the wealthy that recommend giving to some charities and against giving to others, which is very different than what we have in the space today. That’ll be on tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour we’re live tweeting today, use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation with us on twitter. We take a break right now, and when i come back, i’ll be joined by robert penna. We’re going to talk about the non-profit outcomes toolbox, so stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Geever hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio. My guest now is robert penna. He is the author of a complete i’m sorry. The non-profit outcomes toolbox. A complete guide to program effectiveness, performance measurement and results published by wiley and sons. He’s, a consultant and his work includes the application of corporate sector, outcome based tools and insights to the work of non-profits he’s done work for the n e casey foundation, the national geographic foundation and the ford foundation. He’s, an adviser to charity navigator on outcomes. I’m very glad that his work and his book bring him to the studio. Robert. Welcome. Thank you very much for having pleasure to have you. Thank you for coming all the way down from albany. No problem. Live in the studio. In the studio. We hear an increasing amount of talk about out comes out comes measurement. Why is that? I would save it for basically two reasons. A one’s historical. The fact is that traditionally and this goes back easily to the beginning of the last century. No one ever asked non-profits to be quite fair. No one ever asked non-profits to either show evidence of or to demonstrate that. They were having an actual impact that was sort of a field of dreams and concept. If we make it available, things must get better, and it was taken on faith that train people with good programs with enough money would bring about positive change. Nobody actually quite asked altum that all started to change in the late seventies and then into the eighties, and quite independently of one another in various spaces, this concept of a focus on results in outcomes and evidence of same started a crop up, and it began to coalesce and particularly as we are in an in an era of limited resource is it becomes more important than ever for non-profits to be able to say here’s actual evidence of what we’ve accomplished, as opposed to a story about how big the problem is or how hard we’re trying in his forward ken berger, president, ceo of charity navigator who’s been a guest on the show, says that measurement is a battle for the very soul of the nonprofit sector. It’s taking on that great a prominence? Yes, it is that actually that line comes from a from an article ken and i co co authored it really is because there are those apologised who honestly believe in its ah term use before a fair exchange of differing ideas. You honestly believe that non-profits and their clients should not be held tio this kind of accountability that the concept of just making services available truly is the mission of the non-profit space and that as long as they’re doing that, they’re doing their job. The problem is that for all of the money we’ve spent thes problems haven’t gone away. And so the question is, shouldn’t we be putting our our resource is into those programs into those organizations that have proven that there having the most beneficial impact, as opposed to giving it to other places that are perhaps not being as effective? The problems are too big, and the resource is of too scarce not to do this anymore, but it truly is a battle within the sector because there are those who just don’t believe in it, and we’ll get to a little of what their arguments are, maybe obliquely only, but that some of the ideas are so nebulous that they can’t be measured that like a child feeling a more positive. Ah, feeling about education or about going to school, sort of nebulous ideas like that. But actually, those, um, sort of feel good outcomes can be measured. Well, first off, i would argue that if an organization is focusing primarily or almost or solely on, feel good outcomes, they’re rethinking what they’re doing. Number one. But number two, there are proxies. There are proxies in terms of attitude, in terms of behaviour, in terms of various other kinds of things that can be looked at and can be taken as fairly accurate measures of whether or not if what, you want to changes in attitude, whether or not that attitude has changed. So it can be done. And we’re gonna talk about some of the ways that non-profits get there and the way that we can measure these things. Is the butt is the story is the non-profits story the compelling story is that is that dead? Well, it it shouldn’t be dead, but what it should be, what should happen is that should be put in its place, okay? The idea of telling a story is not a bad one, in fact, that there’s a whole chapter in the book that talks about using narrative as opposed to just factoids, because people remember stories where they have a tendency to forget much more vivid right stories vivid. But the problem is, if the if the story first off focuses on how big the problem is and that’s all it, it focuses on, and there are a number of non-profits i won’t name any, but you could probably think of them. You get through with the things in the mail and they show you the picture of x, y or z and it’s always how big the problem is when we’re telling that kind of story and that’s all we’re telling we are, in a way, avoiding entirely the question of well, what are you doing about it? And what other results that you have that you have achieved? So that’s one one reason why the story has to be put in his proper place? The second is, and i don’t know whether we’ll get into this today, but a lot of non-profits wind up telling the wrong story for the wrong reason and ofttimes to the wrong people so that something has to be carefully handle is okay, we have just another minute before a break, what if not a named example? What do you mean? Telling the wrong story? A lot of non-profits will focus on an emotional story that will highlight, for example, a success story, and it will be about this client of that client, but inadvertently, what they’re doing is they’re focusing the attention on that client. What we don’t know is, is that story cherry picked? How representative actually is it what they’re not talking about is thie the the work that the organization as a whole does it’s it’s? Shall we say it’s it’s macro impact? They focus so specifically on the story of this particular client at that particular point that becomes very easy for their overall message of what they’re doing to be lost, counterproductive in counter falik snusz his book is the non-profit outcomes. Toolbox, it’s, robert penna. You’ll find his blogged outcomes, toolbox, dot com, and he’ll be with me after this break. So stay with us because you didn’t think to getting dink dink dink. You’re listening to the talking alternate network, get in. Thank you, cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career, trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future. You dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight. Three backs to one to seven to one eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed and the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed hi and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Metoo welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio talking to robert penna about his book the non-profit outcomes toolbox right before the break, robert, we were talking about for too much focus on problems, but the non-profit sectors exists to solve problems. So shouldn’t they be talking about what the problems are? Well, again, it has to be put into its proper place in its proper perspective. And this is not, you know, women teo, bash the sector. Okay, i mean, we have to be on it eyes and say, this is a historical perspective and very early on this was how attention was brought. Tea to issues were literally going back to the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds pompel people, for example, he’d carry nation she’s well known for wanting teo, bring about prohibition. Well, what she talked about was all of the ancillary downsides of alcoholism, all right, and the folk. But the focus was on drink. The focus was on people drinking too much. And the idea was they didn’t think think it through to say, well, what’s really gonna happen. What other causes here? It was just too focused on the drinks, and we had prohibition and guess what? All of those issues did not go away. The issues of broken families, the issues of domestic violence, the issues of unemployment, the issues of of poverty didn’t go away just because we we got rid of alcohol for those period that period of time. So part of the problem of the focus on just the problem is it tends to lead to simplistic answers, because the concept is that progresses a lack of the problem when, in point of fact, really, the outcomes approach is that what you want to do is bring about some positive change that goes beyond merely an absence of the problem. So that’s one of the problems with focusing on just the problem, the second thing is that it kind of takes you off the hook if you think about it, for having to say, really what you have done to alleviate the problem or what success you’ve had in alleviating the problem. If every time i come back to you, pick an issue, homeless puppies, i come to you and i sent put something in the mail and tony, you know, look at all these starving puppies and i say it was ten thousand starving puppies and you know it, justin in manhattan or someth that’s a problem and you emotionally are expected to resupply with a cheque will. Now, next year i come back and i say, well, now, there’s ten thousand homeless puppies, this still ten thousand homeless puppies will again. What it keeps focusing on is the problem it does not focus on am i having an impact on alleviating such chelation so that’s, a real sort of short way of describing why that tends to be a ah sort of a circle, you know, like the snake eating its own tail. It really doesn’t get you where you need to pay. And you alluded to earlier the fact that we do still have deep seated, entrenched problems that we have been working on for generations like homelessness, entrenched poverty, etcetera, exactly right be a hunger of broken family, you name it, these problems, or of worldwide and so you might even get thes these appeals from any place on the globe. But it tends to in a lot of ways, i think lead to a sense of defeat, because, i mean, think about it if every single year, you get the same appeal from the same organization showing the same picture of the same a person in need. The question starts to it begs the question, well, what’s happening with my money, what we’ve been at it for so long, and we’re still seeing the same one problem. One gentleman i speak there speaking to some months ago, he runs a non-profit e program in ohio, and he said to me, well, do candy said, you know, we’ve been fighting this war on poverty for, you know, forty something years, and i’m not so sure we have anything to show for it. And part of the reason is that from the beginning, what we have to show for it was not the accent the accent was on making money available and making programs available. You’ve heard a thousand times there, the concept, the underserved community, right, which you could argue about whether they’re actually underserved enough that’s a different story. But the question is what it seems to lead to. It leads to the implication that if you make services available, things will be better. Well, that’s not necessarily true. Just making them available, zach. Will will result in the outcome that you want exactly, and for years social investors you know, traditionally called funders, we’re investing in making services available rather than investing in change, and if you’re investing in change, then there ought to be sameer marks of the change. The whole concept of moving your your your your head away from the idea of being a funder. What’s being an investor is one of the first the first steps what’s a fund interested in a funder is interested in the dispersement of funds in terms of the process, the paperwork who’s it going to what’s it being used for what’s an investor interest is an investor in investor wants a return let’s talk about some more of the language differences that you point out not so much differences, but the important language around outcomes measurement that takes up roughly the first third of the book or so gent generally outputs versus outcomes, outputs or what you do outcomes of what happens because of what you did okay? Example of an output and output is training class, and the outcome would be that somebody got a job by virtue of having been trained. And more importantly, kept the job for a reasonable amount of time when and this was this was rampant in the late sixties and seventies. Excuse me, but when thanks to largely the government we got into being counting and compliance, no organisations were measured onto in terms of how many fannies their head in the seats, how many training training class they help? Well, that was great, but then it turned out in some cases people we trained for jobs that no longer existed or the training was insufficient, or there really was no placement attached to it. So we had organizations claiming success because they’ve had x number of fannies in the seats or because they held so many trainings. Well, they gave us so many certificates, but the end of the day was anybody hyre did anybody did anybody’s life improved? Well, don’t ask me that question when i focused on that we’re focused on how many training on the output not come from the outcomes spring from the outputs. Yes, yes, you need the outputs in order to get the outcomes and they have to be the right outputs. But again, if that is only just your focus is there’s a saying that a colleague of mine, a colleague of mine who wrote a book, if well, you fundez activity that’s. Usually all you get? Yes. Okay. All right. Impact, impact flows from outcome. What? Tell us about it and that’s down the road that’s down the road. In other words, for example, let us say that what you were talking about was bringing possible water. And this is something i was engaged in a t united nations potable water, fresh water supplies to certain kinds of villages. I was pronouncing potable. Is that okay? Potable vote on a laudable somebody made a tomato, somebody from and why you were calling correct one of us. I have to. But i was so it’s possible that anyone when you were with the united nations so that’s a hyre i’m just tony martignetti non-profit radio it’s hyre hyre standing. But you had a situation where okay you’re you’re bringing fresh water. And now you could think of a host of reasons early on why you might want to do that. One of the more interesting ones to me was to alleviate the burden on the women and girls. In the village usually whose job it is to do nothing while david hold water one of the reasons why their educational opportunities were so so stunted was because, well, gee, somebody’s got to get the water and that’s the woman and children’s job. Or rather, a woman and girls job. Well, let us say that you bring it in and let us say that some girl does get to go to school. Well, perhaps if twenty years later when she’s an adult, she actually has a business and gets out of the out of the village, that might be an impact. But the problem with the focusing on impacts these long term impacts is very often the causal chain is extremely weak. The causal chain is broken and it’s kind of hard. Teo teo to take credit for some things. I mean, we’ve all heard the stories of the head start program that’s taking credit because thirty five years later, one of their graduates became the head of some, you know, ceo of some company. Well, you know, thanks, snusz because back in nineteen forty seven, he was with us in today’s end of a corporation. I don’t know. About that, but i honestly would say impacts agreed to have these are the kinds of things you see in mission statements and vision statements. The long term impacts, what organizations need to do is figure out how to translate those things into measurable, achievable, significant, meaningful outcomes. Okay? And shortly we’re gonna talk about the outcome statement and contrast it with the mission statement and talk about what the elements are and how to get to ah ah, eh, a proper and and viable outcome statement. So yeah, and just around impacts, you say in the book impacts or what we hoped for, outcomes are what we work for. We’ve talked about that means your outcomes or what you’re working toward the impact of the the longer term we really we talked about funder donorsearch sis investor. Anything else you want to say about the about? Maybe non-profits looking at themselves as invest, ese. Well, that’s, that’s a very good point. I mean, when someone gives you a gift. Christmas gift. Okay, now we’ve all had the relative who gives us something. And then every once a while checks are you using it? You? Have you been? Did you? Like the sweat in most people that give you a gift, they hope you like it, but they really don’t have any kind of control now. My grandmother used to give me cash, she would slip me cash in by hand like a handshake, and she would always say, spend it like you earned it. My grandmother never did that. You didn’t know i’m sorry, no migraine with a borrowed but no that’s, um, we’re not related even starting now, but the idea is when someone gives you a gift, really the in most cases, the string of scott, you know, the the very there, the influence they have over the use of that gift, et cetera. Well, the problem is when you think of yourself, if you’re a non-profit as a grantee of donor of a donation or giving, okay, the implication that the onus is on you to deliver something back to that to that donor to that investor is i like to use use the term is much less clear than if you see them as investors and you see yourself as an invested because right from the start from the basic language, what we’re making clear is that you owe them a return investments give returns exactly. And so the mindset shift is that i mentioned before the first one is moving from the concept of thunder to investor the second is moving from the concept that what we’re investing in is the provision of services opposed to we’re investing in change, and then what are those changes and how do you define them? And the third thing is that we’re going to be satisfied with an account of activity as opposed to actual evidence of results, performance and effectiveness. The’s a three crucial mindset shifts that the space has to eventually and will adopt, and the sooner non-profits get on this, the better off they’ll be. You quote stephen covey saying, it is incredibly easy to be very busy without being very effective. Well, we’ve always have seen those people who can, you know, go to the office in the busy all day, and at the end of the day, what have they actually accomplished? And the answer is, you know, not a heck of a lot and that’s, you know, that’s, the wife, i’m with robert pennant he’s, the author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. Let’s, talk a little about the outcome statement versus the how does it contrast with the mission statement? The well, mission statements of very often pie in the sky and aspirational mean they ought to be yes, and an inspirational okay, okay, but the idea is that the idea that we’re going to solve a problem in our time we’re gonna end poverty, will end homeless. Is thies air the kinds of things that you very often see working their way into? Ah, emission statement or vision statement. The problem is that how do you then actually turn around and effectuated if you basically go to an investor and they said, what do you know what we’re gonna do? We’re gonna end and homelessness. Well, you’re probably not. So when you don’t, what do you could do? You come back and say i failed an outcome statement is based upon a couple of key characteristics that good outcomes have among those are all right. It’s. Meaningful it’s. Not a cosmetic change. It’s. Sustainable that’s. A very, very important one. Right? It’s achievable. All right, there’s, an old state. Everyone talks about the weather. No one does anything about it. Why? Because global warming aside, it’s. Tough to do anything about the weather. All right. But if you a couch your your goals in not slam dunks you want, they want them to be doable with a stretch. You? I mean, you clearly want to push yourself all right. But the idea is that you want it to be something that can be achieved in your lifetime on dh something that can be measurable. The sustainable part is particularly crucial. I think of my involvement. I’m a lifelong scout. Around fifty eight years old. I first joined the boy scouts when i was ten. I mean, eagle scout. Well, i never made it that i was in the order. The arrow you want? Ditigal oh, no, no, no it’s a different. But i have a son who was in the order of the arrow and he’s an eagle scout like vicarious thrills. But we i remember ah, project, where are we going to clean up a lot and throw this lot had been used as a dumping ground. The scouts came in and we weed whackers and rakes and tree pruners. And we turned it looks like a park when we’re done all right. And we congratulate ourselves. Up, up, up we all went home in that night’s peace. Somebody dumped a refrigerator. It wasn’t a sustainable achievement because we didn’t have the facility for either blocking it office, stopping people from dumping again. So the concept has to be again in terms of a good outcome, one of the characteristics and aki one is this concept of sustainability. But again, to go back to your question about the difference between a mission statement of vision statement and an outcome statement a lot of organizations have a tough time differentiating in the book i refer to ah, vision approach. You may recall the book in the book, i had a picture of some futuristic city, teo illustrate that my belief is that mission statement envision statements are both great things, a good ideas, they’re visionary, they belong up on the wall, but they don’t belong in terms of you every day action plan, they’re different from an action plan. It’s the difference be between having the long term goal of i want to speak? I want to be trimmed and having an actual diet that you’re that you’re following. All right? Um, you know, there are numerous examples we could have that we could we could point to okay, i’m realizing now, since we’re talking about since i’m talking about being an eagle scout, you know, i didn’t measure the the outcomes of my eagle scout project, which was teo. Make sure that address is street addresses were visible to emergency services in my little town of altum panned newjersey, which had maybe three thousand homes or so so we looked at every home and where there wasn’t a visible address from the street that a policeman or fireman or the ambulance could find could see it easily. We left a note in the in the mailbox and the note was signed by the police chief, the fire chief and the the head of the ambulance corps. But that’s just that’s just activity. I don’t know what the outcome’s were. I don’t know if more lives were saved. Police response times. We’re reduced fire response times are reduced. That would have been right. That would come into the out moment. And what? And if you had done the eagle project as an outcome, you know, an outcome based thing that was specifically the kinds of things that you would have wanted to look at. Now that was response time reduced. Yeah, you know, i don’t know anything is dramatic is where lives saved but certainly were response times reduced. You could even you could even have done it as looking at things like ups, you know? Did ups have fewer lost deliveries because they were brought to the wrong home. All right, i have thiss factual case up in albany way. Have to hold on your case. Feeling bad? About my eagle project from thirty five years ago, this is tony martignetti, tony martignetti non-profit radio. We have to take a break after the break. We’ll be tony’s. Take two for two minutes, and then i’ll return with robert penna. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s. The answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com metoo dahna welcome back to the show, it’s time for tony’s take two two minutes at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour. Roughly my block this week is if donors are investors, then they need a motley fool motley fool is an online investment advisory service actually recommends stocks, too, its members and my thinking is, and this is sort of related to what robert and i are talking about if donors are in fact investors to non-profits then are we going to go beyond just ratings that charity navigator and guidestar offer into recommendations, overt, explicit recommendations, invest in this non-profit this other non-profit is not a good recommendation, not abi, maybe it’s ah, hold or maybe it’s even a cell? Um, there are organisations like this that do services like that they’re a couple do them mostly for the wealthy rockefeller philanthropy advisors is probably the best known, but i think if if if donors are becoming investors than we’re going to see this trickle down, too, the average moderate income, modest income investor in non-profits and then, you know, with the with the comparisons across non-profits b bye sector like and with that sector be charitable mission would it be geographic, so that may be the best healthcare investment, as as an investor is a certain hospital or or ah non-profit clinic in aa county or in a town or in the city? Um what it would have come to the point where it’s, you know, your investment in the indianapolis dance company is most likely to pay off or more likely to pay off, and what does pay off mean than some other investment in some other indianapolis arts group or or dance company? So i think related to what robert and i are talking about and just interesting, you know, um, non-profit investment advisory services, you know, are we headed there? There’s more about that on my block at mpg a dv dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, september second, bringing robert penna welcoming him back now. We were just before the break, talking about the outcome statement hyre should be meaningful, achievable, sustainable on dh the book goes into a little more detail, even oh, and i’d like to because i’d like to help our listeners achieve an outcome statement. Ah, you say that should be bound in time and number. The outcome stable? What does that mean? Well, what it basically means is rather than saying, we’re going to change the world, it’s, that we’re going to specifically a change ah, certain measurable of facet of characteristic of someone for a certain number of people within a certain given period of time. So the idea said, we’re going to achieve x for why number of people within two months, three months, one year, whatever it may be so that the idea is that first off it’s it’s tethered to ah, a certain number of people that you’re going teo achieve this for, and also a certain specific times. So that, for example, the investor knows when the payoff comes, let me give you another reason why this is crucial if you were if you read the book as they know you know you did, you probably came across the work capacity ten thousand times capacity. You don’t have to read the book to hear about capacity over the building in no, no, no, but over here, this is a very, very specific use. If you haven’t outcomes approach, it automatically begs the capacity question, because if you are clear about what it is you want to achieve from that flows what it is. You need to get there, which then challenges you to say, do i have that capacity most non-profits and i hate to use generalizations. But i think in this case, it’s true. Most on traffic. It’s a most people who are aware of the non-profit space when you talk about capacity building the first thing they will think about his dollar signs. All right, we’re having a capacity capacity raising effort. What? It’s? A fund raiser. True capacity, however, has three levels. All right. The first one is structural capacity. How is the organization run? How is it managed? What’s the relationship between the board and the executive leadership what’s the quality of the training of the staff, et cetera. The second is what i call functional capacity. Basically, what that means is if you go, you do have the tools to do what you say you’re going to do. If you were an education organization, then you need educators. You need a curriculum. If you’re counseling organization unique counselors and you need some sort of models, they’re all your inputs. Yes, exactly. The third one and perhaps the most important one is the implementation capacity the’s are the thousand and one little things that not just non-profits but anybody trips up, trips over when it comes to actually doing a job, it could be, for example, twenty you or i are going to put a curtain rod, and it turns out we don’t have a level well, if we don’t have a level, how we’re gonna make sure the curtain rod is level that’s an implementation capacity issue when you talk about a non-profit it could be everything from the from the requirement to provide transportation so the clients could actually get there to something like intake if you want. If you’re goingto have seventy five people, let us say graduate from your program will do you have the capacity for a new intake to actually process those seventy five people? So they’re not standing on line three hours and losing interest and wandering away. Who’s gonna answer the phones let’s say you have a a an outreach effort going on, and you have a training program and you put the word out on the street, but then it turns out that your non-profit is really run all by part timers and most of the time, if anybody calls to get information, they’re either going to get just a phone that rings or they’re going to get an answering machine that’s a capacity questions. So if you’re doing this correctly, it really forces you to look at a number of things, including the capacity that you have to actually achieve the goals. If you don’t have it, then you have to upgrade the capacity or perhaps scale back the goals and flowing from this quantification of of what you want outcomes to be is measurable because they become measurable when you’ve quantified and bound in-kind time number so we can, in fact, measure things that are i have previously been so just vague sort of objectives. Let me give you a classic example on this may sound like a bit of a stretch to euro to your readers, but you and i being roughly the same age, i think you have. You have readers we have listen that’s, right, our reader listeners, because they’re all gonna buy your book, my readers just the non-profit outcomes toolbox published by wile e you recall when when when we were kids, we had things like, you know, lincoln logs and directors were there and they were even wood and the logs we’re made for, right? Okay, this is going to sound like a bit of a weird one, but compare think back, compare when you’re building one of those things, too. When your mother built a big cake, your mother baked the cakes you took all the ingredients she pour them in a bowl should put him in a pan, she put in the oven and she lost at that point total control of what was going on. No one’s going to know whether cake was good or bad until after it was done. It came out. It was cool when you tasted it, and if something were on, there was nothing you could do thinking back, however, to the example, the lincoln logs with the tinker toys, the directors that we had a guide. The guide showed a step by step where we should be at every point in time, if at any point in time, what we’re building didn’t look like the picture we could stop, we could go back and we could fix it. That’s one of the differences of working with outcomes as opposed to not when you don’t work without comes we have to be the only position you’re in is to hope for a good end result, but you can’t control it because you have no idea really what’s going on with the variables. If you’re tracking using an outcome system all right, and it is bound in time and is bound in number, and you do know that by a certain date x number of people should be at stage four if they’re not there, then you still have time to fix it if you have no clue where they’re supposed to be, or what we could do was hope for good results of the end, and if you don’t get it, well, then we did, you say, sorry, better looking altum you don’t know that as a child actually had an easy bake oven, i didn’t have the lincoln logs. My brother had the lincoln logs, i had the easy bake oven dahna they should also be your outcome statement verifiable, and this is all really, i’m i’m breaking it down the way you do in the book, but just flows naturally from the way you’re describing it. We have to be able to verify where we are time versus goal on dh and reassess, say more about verifiability. Verifiability basically means that some third party can look at it without spending a ton of money, because again, and maybe this is that not to take anything away from professional evaluators, but evaluation cost money and professional evaluators in professional valuation services. I mean, these people are very good at what they do, but the point is that hopefully what you’re doing is verifiable in the easier way i mean, is there’s an old saying, you know, chicken soup is good for the soul? Well, it could be, but it’s, hard to tell. You know, what you want to do is you want to stick to things that have some fairly easily discernible evidence that can be seen and that’s what it means, my verifiable it means staying away from outcomes to talkabout, as you said before, well, somebody feels better about themselves. In their place in the universe, well, that’s a little bit nebulous. And so i would recommend that if you’re looking to create a good outcome statement, a good outcome for you program that you stay away from the cosmic, the psychic, the overly emotional and definitely the extraterrestrial. Okay, so first step to create a proper outcome statement is what decide what you want to be different at the end of this program. So you’re definitely looking forward toward gin with the end in mind begins, and you say that the book begin with the engine dart with what do you want to be different about a certain situation or a certain set of conditions as a result of your program, start there. If you can’t define, then maybe should rethink what you’re doing and in determining that you need to be bound in number and time and those miserable those of the descriptions as you working back, which is yes, but the idea is what you want to start with is a change you want to start with being able to define a change. We’ve kind of alluded to this, but the basic basic idea with the changes what’s called the backs measures change in the behavior, attitude, condition, knowledge or status of those you seek to serve. So you start with the change in their behavior, their attitude, that condition and knowledge or the status and it doesn’t have to be a person. It could be a forest that could be it could could be a watershed. The status goes from being threatened to not tear being safe to being protected. But the idea is you start with the change and defining if you can’t define it, then my suggestion is you start to rethink a lot of organizations. Start with the problem. And then the next question is, what do we do? Well, what do we do? That’s that’s. The wrong place to start the place to start is first off. What changes do we want to bring about? Secondly, what resource is will it take to do that? Thirdly, you know what actions or programs will it take to effectuate that it’s? A total reverse of the usual way of approaching most of these issues. That’s. Ah, sort of a summary of of developing your own outcome statement. And there’s, obviously a lot more detail. In the book again, the book is the non-profit outcomes toolbox, we have just about a minute before the break, how do we start to apply and outcomes analysis? You have a lot of tools in the book, but how do we get there? Well, first off an easy thing by the book, but beyond that, there are any number of very, very thoughtful people who have created some of these tools that are out there. The problem is that most non-profits i don’t know about them. Everybody, for example, is heard of the logic model. Well, what they don’t understand what the logic model was originally intended to do was to intended to be a supposed to the way a lot of people are suggesting it be used. Today there are alternatives to this, and the book is one way of finding out about them and it reinventing the wheel is not necessary. These wheels have already being been invented. The question is knowing which ones work for you. And that was the whole concept behind the toolbox approach to the book that perhaps we can talk about after the break. Okay, way are going to take a break. If you’ve not heard of the logic model, then you’re with me. So i’m going to ask robert after the break to just briefly talk about that. And then we’re going to talk about some of tools and lessons you can learn from the for-profit from the corporate sector in outcomes measurement. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in oppcoll this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing effort. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile market. Their motto is we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com told you. If you have big ideas and an average budget to tony martignetti non-profit radio, we dio. I’m jonah helper, nari team in co founders of next-gen charity metoo welcome back to the show. Our last segment. Let’s define the logic model because maybe i know it by a different name, robert. But you may know that what is that? That is actually the name of it. If the logic model is a away that non-profits have had for some years now ah planned it’s one of the tools that they’ve used for planning how to get to the outcomes from the starting point. But the logic model became very well known when kellogg adopted at the kellogg foundation. Same is the cereal people, the telephone, isha and united way of america adopted. And in both of those cases they kind of put the word out amongst their there either case of kellogg, that grantees, and in the case of the united way of america, the local affiliates, that this was one of the earliest outcomes frameworks that you could potentially use not doing under do plug. But in my previous book, outcome frameworks, that was one of the things we talked about, because the idea was there were these various models, and how do they compare one to the other? And what were the pluses and minuses of all of them that had never been done? Before, which is why i wrote that previous book, but the logic model truly was meant as a is a graphic illustration of cause and effect within a program that this input will lead to that which will lead to the third, which will lead to the fourth and hopefully get you two the the the the end point that you that you desire, the problem is it was never actually designed to be a management or tracking tool. And when organizations and there are a lot of people, very thoughtful people who do use it for this personally, i think it’s cumbersome and what you wind up with since the whole design was a flow chart, very often you wind up with all of these various lines at the doubling back on each other. So some of someone i know, okay, so we’re past that now that we’re in the outcomes toolbox, right? And why did you choose the toolbox metaphor? Kinds of the toolbox was very simple. Let’s go back to that curtain, rod, you and i, we’re going to put a human. You don’t go back to my eagle scout. No, no, i’m still sinjin, i’m going to go back to the curtain rod, you’re not going to put up a few minutes ago without the level. Let’s say you’re putting up the the curtain, ron and all the tools you had. We were craftsman. And at one point you needed that level that i mentioned and you say, bob, give me a level. Well, if the level i gave you was a stanley, would you refuse to use it? Because it was a question like all the other tools? Probably not. You would. You would use the tools at hand. Okay. In the non-profit space, most of these frameworks, our proprietary, this one belongs to ran. That one belongs to the rental of ill institute, the third one’s associated with this with this person or this institution. As a result, what traditionally happened was, let us say, a representative of that organization or the consultant came in and they would wind up basically saying to non-profits my model b a, b, c or d it’s the bass o matic of outcome frameworks. It slices it, dices it chops, it walks the dog. It does everything. The problem is none of them do everything. All of them. Do something, all of them do several somethings some of them do some things very well, but none of them do everything well. And so what we want of doing was inadvertently offering them the space eighty pence, eighty percent solutions to one hundred percent problems. It’s telling people, for example, that the logic model was the be all and end all was one such example. My concept is, and the reason is called the toolbox in the book, i do not care about the authorship, the ownership, the providence or anything else about any of these tools. If it works, i want you to use it, and i’m not going to tell you not to use it because you’re not using the other pieces of the same sex that’s the concept truly a toolbox reaching grab what works for you, and if you’re not oriented to its tools, think about it as a kitchen, you know, again, you know, if you have a, you know, one brand of, you know, say, blender and another brand of you’re not going to not use them to the same meal because the different brands you’re going to use, what you need now. You’re in my space because now i mean that’s for my easy bake oven days. Okay, right. The kitchenware. That’s. What if that’s why i went there? I can see that you is resonating with much more comfortable with spatulas than i am. Phillips head screwdriver. First time i used when i had to go to the emergency room that’s because you were trying to scrape a pan with so the book has ah, lot of model of of these tools talks about dahna maybe a dozen or so. Some of the simplest ones are you get what you measure results based accountability, even one from mckinsey and company capacity assessment tool. But maybe not those necessary. But a lot of the tools in the toolbox do emanate from corporate outcomes. Measurements. Some of the some of the latter ones. A lot of, you know, there’s. A lot of what are what? Why is it translatable? I mean, from for-profit tuna for-profit, you know, a lot of times not-for-profits community is worried about things that come from corporations. Yeah. Peter drucker. Except for money. Not a cz investigators, investors, but but now there is that fear. What were some of the less peter drucker made the comment that non-profit should be run more like business, and everyone thought that, you know, he was he was the prostate, and he was ah, heretical and my god, you know, corporations a big, nasty things, and after all we care, you know, we have a non-profit sector. The truth of the matter is that no one is more interested in outcomes in the corporate world. Now they tend to call the court that their outcomes profitability, market share, etcetera. But the idea is they’ve been leading the way literally since, you know henry ford was putting model tease out of on assembly line, there are tools, for example, like six sigma. There are tools that i said heaven saying, sabat against there are tools like six, six, six sigma six sigma. The question is what? The hell’s, a sigma and where the six of them that’s explained in the book it’s basically a measure of quality. All right, six sigma focuses on how many failure rates are there per million opportunities to fail. I mean, you don’t really have to get into that, but the concept is it has some key insight something for example, like t q m t q jargon jail. Oh, ok, you know, take your total quality, man. You know, i didn’t know what i mean, that’s what it cost him, and i’m not going to lock myself in jargon jail. What it means is critical to quality most non-profits when they’re designing a programme, do not ask this question, as the corporate world does with corporal world is launching and launching an effort, one of the first things under six sigma they would do is say, what is the most critical part of this that we need to have? If a non-profit were to adopt that kind of that kind of concept and that kind of analysis, it could go very, very far towards helping them focus on the most important parts of a program, the key things that they absolutely must have. But this is a perspective that is very often for into the non-profit space, but very, very built into the corporate space, particularly using something like six sigma, i see a future masters degree in non-profit outcomes engineering yet it’s perfect, exactly there’ll be exactly well, but when we have maybe a moment so we can talk about something called serve qual, which they’re using pizza hut, if you imagine, think a tool from pizza being used in the non-profit space now that’s that’s the suggestion that we talked about, regrettably, we’re out of moments right of moments. Well, the lesson is don’t be fearful of what comes from the non-profit from from the for-profit sector because these are all important, easily quantified things that corporations are focusing on, like earnings per share in a quarter, right? Exactly. And how do you get there? What do you need to do to get there? The book is the non-profit outcomes toolbox, a complete guide to program effectiveness, performance measurement and results published by wally wiley and sons, you’ll find robert penn is blogged at outcomes, outcomes toolbox, dot com robert, thank you very much for being on the show. A pleasure. Thank you very much for having it was a pleasure and enjoyed immensely. Thank you. Next week, september eleven giving what of the trends been? What can we expect going forward around that? My guest will be christine cronin, president of n y charities dot or ge? You can always keep up with what’s coming. Up on the show, sign up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page there’s a link to sign up and get those weekly alerts while you’re there, click like become a fan of the show, you can listen live or archive you’ve been listening live. You can listen archive on itunes subscribe and listen anytime, of course. 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056: The Goods on Google+ & Breaking Down Barriers – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Scott Koegler, editor of Nonprofit Technology News
Megan Galbraith, managing director at Changing Our World

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, i’m your aptly named host, and i hope you were with me last week when we first explained earned income that was with our legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan, they broke down what earned income is why it can be good. Why it can be bad why you need to understand it to protect your non-profit and keep it out of trouble and the second segment last week was leading the leaders motivate your board to fundraise that was pre recorded at the fund-raising day conference here in new york city in june, and we had a consultant, andy robinson and carry kruckel vice president for development and communications at w n e t t v, and they revealed how to move your board to be the best fundraisers they can be this week. Scott koegler, the editor of non-profit technology news in our regular tech contributor is back with us. We’re going to talk about the goods on google, plus he’s going to share his insights into whether google plus is different? If so, how, then what we’ve already got in the social media space to help you answer the question, should we jump in when organization pages become available? We’re going to do a live google plus hangout, which i’ll talk about very shortly, so i hope you have added scott and me to your google plus circles. Second segment breaking down the barriers megan galbraith, managing director at changing our world, has strategies to get public relations, communications and fund-raising working together, playing nicely together for greater efficiency between the shows. Sorry between the segments, of course it’s tony’s take two this week from my blogged are you asking for more when they’ve given enough scooter pies in a folksy restaurant? Let me to remind fundraisers that we need to be sensitive about asking for the next gift, and i’ll talk more about that. We’re live tweeting today. Use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter and as i mentioned, we’re doing a google plus live hang out in the first segment, so go to today’s show post on my blogged at mpg a dvd dot com and you’ll see links their toe add scott koegler and me to your circles, and then you’ll see the feed, and you’ll get the information on how to join us. So it’s. After this, break the goods on google. Plus, stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. No. Durney are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. Sick. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl. Offset. Two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five, zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom, too. One, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Treyz hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com no. Welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent, which is what we’re always thinking about on tony martignetti non-profit radio with me now is scott koegler he’s, the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find at n p tech news. Dot com he’s, our regular tech contributor scott, how are you this afternoon? I’m doing great, tony, how are you? Terrific. Thank you, it’s. Good to have you back with us. We’re talking. We’re talking about the goods on google plus. And we’re doing a live google plus hangout, which we’ll get to shortly. Um, let’s see, google plus is a new player in this social media space. What’s what are you finding? That’s interesting there on dh. How popular is it? Well, it’s it’s been around for about two months now. Andi came out of the gate with a real quick start. I believe the last numbers i heard what you’re actually probably a couple weeks old now is that google plus garnered about twenty five million users just in the first month or so of use my lost track of what they’re up to now. But i’m sure that it’s significantly more than that dahna that, of course, pales when compared to facebook’s, depending on the numbers that you believe seven hundred fifty million or so. But, you know, for a month or two months worth of activity, it’s certainly a good showing. Yeah, no kidding. Right? Twenty to thirty million in just a few months. Well, of course they have, ah, powerhouse of advertising and people using it are people using google for other purposes. And in fact, you have to be ah, part of google, right? You have to have a google account in order to use this, right? Well, that’s not so unusual. Although people have made a big deal of it, whenever you create an account when we try to use any kind of social media you have to create on account of some kind, whether it’s, twitter, facebook, whatever you have a you know, some kind of pages says who are you? How to get in touch, that kind of thing? One of the things that is differentiating google plus from mostly from the other two twitter and facebook is that google doesn’t want youto lie. They want you to actually use your riel information. Your real name. They had a, uh, disclaimer about using aliases. In fact, they kicked off a bunch of people, prominent people that you would recognize. When they signed up with aliases rather than their true names that’s been controversial, but personally, i think it’s a great thing. Why do you prefer that? Well, there’s a couple things one is that you really become more like email and that’s kind of the basis for google. Plus, is that your google email address? Your gmail address in this case is, is your actual we now? I mean, it’s what? You used to get information back and forth so people actually know you by that by that moniker. So at the very out start, it does away with some kind of, you know, spanning or advertising and those kind of things which are pretty easy to do on on the other social media platforms where you could just create an account with whatever bogus name you want and start sending out trash to everyone. Uh, and so far i have to say, my my google plus stream is fairly clean, not much trash in there. Okay. And how active for you, how many people do you have in? Well before we haven’t even talked about what circles are but how many people you connected with what’s to be generic at this point? Yeah, i’ve got, er i think just under three hundred or so and i have to say, although i’m a proponent. Hi, i monitor and i read what’s on google. Plus, i have not been a big contributor and, in fact, that’s that’s, another kind of a measure that i saw some numbers on the other day. There was a a statistic that while google plus has whatever twenty five to thirty million users, approximately eighty five percent of those air inactive, which yeah, first blush is pretty stunning. Andi, i’m one of those eighty five percent i read a bit, i i do some hangouts, i post a few comments, but i am not anything like some of these people that you see on there that are superstars of google plus yeah, okay, and that’s actually consistent with our audience, too, because i pulled in advance of the show and asked, are you using google? Plus and fifty percent of the people said i’m interested but haven’t started. About forty one percent said i’m using it a little and only about eight percent said i’m very into it, adding lots of people into my circles. Are getting connected with lots of people that’s only eight percent. So really very consistent with what you’re saying more broadly. Back-up okay, let’s, talk a little about some of the features we have just about we have a couple minutes before break, so we have a few minutes. Some of the features in google plus circles weave mentioned it a couple times. What? What how did these circles work? What is that? Just kind of compare that to what’s out there already in terms of again twitter and facebook with facebook and twitter. When you get when you add people to your account, you start to get this stream of information and it’s basically everybody, it doesn’t really matter who but how closely associate id you are with those people or what that association is. In other words, your mother is, you know, in the same list as somebody who just found you and added you to their friendship. Yes, so there’s no way to really differentiate google jumped on that as probably one of their first major, um, additions, and they have these things called circles, which kind of makes sense they’re circles of association or friendship circles. For instance, so out of this list of people that you have, you can you can put people into different circles, and one person can be in multiple circles so princessa my brother is in my family circle and he’s also in my photography circle, and you can classify people and scott, do you get to define what the circles are? Are those air predefined by google, plus there’s a couple that come with the application just to get started, but you can make them whatever you want, as many as you want and whatever names you like, and then you can add people to them or move them on one of the nice things is that when i had you, for instance, to my circle, you got a notification that scott keiko added you to a circle, but you have no idea which one i put you in my ignore this stuff f ignore and minimus i’m in the ignore enemy circle. I had this guy, but he wants, but i want him to think that we’re connected right thing that’s the name of circling all right, we’re going to take a break right now when we come back. We’ll try to get the our hangout active where live tweeting used the hashtag non-profit radio on twitter. Stay with us e-giving dick, dick, dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network things get. Get in. Cubine are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam lebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s, create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively conversation. Top trends. Sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. Zoho. Welcome back to the show with scott koegler we’re talking about the goods on google plus and scott, we were just talking about the circle, so that that’s an important point, i think that people know that you’ve added them, but they don’t know which circles you’re in, people that think that’s important for people to understand, right? Yeah, go ahead. So one of the things that facebook has been you know, targeted about is their lack of privacy and being able to direct your your comments to specific people. And so the circles is google’s answer to how to get around that. So you know that in facebook you post a comment and it goes out to your entire world with with google plus, when you approach the comments, you actually have the ability to select which circles you want to send that, too, and it could be all of them, or it could just be one or a few. So you have some segmentation there that you can actually see your communications. Now facebook does have something called lists, but those they seem to be a very minor part of of facebook, i don’t think many people use them they they’re not highly highly used and they’re also not easy to get to it’s. Not something that’s in your face circles are right there and presented every time you make a pose. Yeah, and circles it seems like google plus is built around circles, whereas lists sort of seemed to be like an afterthought or like an add on, i guess at facebook. Okay, so we have circles way also have hangouts. What are hangouts? What? Google’s dahna really nice job of integrating google plus with mobile platform and the there are a couple of differentiations here when you go onto the web and you bring up google plus the button you see, there is hang out, which is the video kind of a video chat and it will support up to ten people. Can video feeds in the same browser window. So right now, if if anybody joins up, we can actually have up to ten people screaming their video into the same hangout. Yes. So now, eh? So we’ve gotta hang out now. Regrettably, i can’t join your hangout because it interferes with our live streaming of the show way. So we saw you on the hangout page waiting for others to join, but we can’t join you for that reason. Yeah, interferes with technology, so and the earl for people to join the hangout is very long. I was hoping it would be something a little more recognisable, but what people should do, i guess, is add you to their google plus circles, and then they’ll then they’ll get your feet and they’ll know how to join the hangout. Is that correct? Yes, that’s what you want? You see, if you can work for me for my profile and then you’ll see the worst of my post in the last one i got up there, my hangout announcement. Okay, on the way to join scott toe, add scott to your circles is to go to my blogged m p g a d v dot com, and the post for today’s show is on the top of the block, and in that post there’s a link to to scott’s profile and that’s how you joined you, add him to your circles so if you do that during the show, you’ll be able to do what scott just said and you’ll be able to join our hangout. Which right now i think it’s just scott it’s just me at the moment. Okay, good. Lonely over there. Okay, but what’s cool about hangouts is you see small pictures of everybody in the hangout, right? But then they get bigger as people talk, right? As you know, it’s, the change of focus. So as he has one person talks, that the picture gets bigger, they become more visible. So it’s a nice implementation and couldn’t. Is this something that non-profits could use for a meeting, right? Sure anybody could use it. In fact, if you have a non-profit that you have a group of your your workers, your helpers, you, khun set up circles with just those people in it, and you can create a hangout and just invite that circle. So everything kind of works together. Oh, you can restrict who joins it. Okay, so you can even you could have a circle for trustees, which might be, you know, too far from the office to come to meetings all the time. Right? Right. Absolutely. Looks like we do have let’s. See, regina, just trying to hang out. So we have somebody in the in here with us. Okay, that’s, our social media manager, regina walton, is okay. Uh, and let’s, see, now, so the two of you can talk, right? We can talk now, it’s going to get real noisy because i, her, whatever she says, comes over the microphone over my speaker. Hey, there you go. Okay, well, maybe when i’ve got my microphone muted, so i’m only going out on one microphone. Okay, good thinking, regina, hello. Can she hear right? Well, she should be listening to the show. First of all, i imagine you can. I don’t know what kind of way. Okay, could be delays. Okay, tony, you’ve got a huddles on dh that’s on the mobile devices. What google’s done is they’ve got an application first came out and no surprise with with the android applications because that’s their platform and so android is a google platform. Is that right? Uh, the google android platform? Yes. Ok. And so when you install that and you can now installed on the apple itunes i ios devices as well. But what you get is a kind of different list of functions you get, uh, something called huddle, which is not a video chat. It’s a text chat, which is i’m not sure it’s the right answer. I mean, for most most phones that that support that kind of application also have cameras so you would think they would be able to join hangouts is well, but anyhow, they dont have that. But that’s, the difference between that and the other thing in the mobile platform is that it’s it also includes check ins. So, you know it’s kind of taken a page out of four square, right? So if i am, if i have my my phone with me and i say check in, it looks at my gps and find out where i am. Looks for a local business that’s close by because it’s business oriented and offers me the ability to check in at that business. Okay, so checking like, like similar so it’s integrated, like four square, right? Exactly like foursquare. So they have in addition to the other, um, uh, the other applications twitter and facebook, they also have four square kind of in their sights for taking function from okay, so i just got a text from regina onda. Hurricane irene apparently is interfering with her a little bit. She is listening to the show. Should be a heretic if she’s not, but she is listening. And esso and she’s still in your hangout. Scott okay, okay. Cubine let’s, try. We’ll try not communicating with her through that through the through the hang out. We’ll just leave her. Is the silent as the silent hangout member there are very laughing. Okay, there’s just got to get that robust laugh here laughing. What else is we’ve got? So do you think that google plus is more robust on the phone man than facebook is on mobile? It’s different? You know, it highlights the different functions from facebook. I, uh i like the way it’s integrated on the phone and i like what? What happens there? I’m not sure that it’s better or worse, to tell you the truth, but i’m a fan of what google plus is doing, but we should probably talk about, you know, what’s what’s coming up for google plus in terms of organisations in there kind of things, okay, yeah, organisations can’t be active in google plus right now, right? Right, right now, every member of google plus is a is a person and so for instance, i think we talked about this one of the shows before i have my and i have a google aps account, which is koegler dot net and that’s, obviously not a gmail dot com address, and so i cannot have a google plus account for k grow dot net because those were not available yet. Back-up but i really believe that that that whole thing about setting up organizations, businesses, private domains on the google maps is where the future of google classes i think they’re getting their feet in the water there, figuring out how individual people want too and are using the system and eventually they’ll open it up to businesses because, you know, you think about it googles and advertising this sets that’s what they do. So right now there is no advertising on google plus, which is kind of surprising, but you know that it’s there it’s kind of working beneath the circus so soon as they open up the functionality toe add businesses, an ad organisations and private domains, i think that’s when we’ll begin to see more than business integration or of the advertising functionality and, um, on and that’s really where they’ll start to kind of overtake what facebook does with its advertising. I’m with scott koegler he’s, our regular contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news. We’re talking about the goods on google plus, we have a live hang out on google plus going on right now, and you can join that if you’re on twitter, follow the hashtag non-profit radio and in that hashtag in a couple of my one of my recent posts, you’ll see that that there’s a link to join the hang out that we’re doing the i did, pol asai said. One of the questions i asked kat was, has your non-profit discussed whether it will have a google plus presence when that’s available and just a little over eighty, about eighty three percent of people said no. They hadn’t even talked about it in their office, and about seventeen percent said yes, they had. So i’m not sure i do. If people even know that, that might be coming. Do they know that? I don’t know how it’s, not something it’s publicized google’s not really talking about it and you say it’s coming so they’re not hinting at capabilities or functionality, but they did initially, and they still do say, do not set up company accounts in google plus infact initially, many, many companies did on google disabled. They just shot him on the same as they did with people who did it by pseudonym. Right. Exactly. Okay, should we be concerned? You think when when that capability starts that that the advertising will start to, you know, letter the letter of the platform, you know, literally the same way that it does on gmail or any other google property? I i think ghoul does a pretty good job of, um, you know, moderating that keeping it appropriate. Certainly it will present ads based on who you are and what they know about you, which is, you know, the way that google does, where the facebook does looks at what you did, what you said, what your interests are and then presented presents items that may be of interest to you. It really doesn’t help him to do anything. Different from that so and it sounds like you expect organizations teo jump on the opportunity when it does become available for for organization pages? I believe so i think that there’s the demand is it is getting pretty built up right now because with however many millions of users they’ve got, a lot of those users are actually cos or work for companies, you know, hopefully all of them work for somebody and so there’s, you know, people getting used to it, they’re getting accustomed to how it works. Go? Yeah, i think so. I think it’s going to be a a major shift right for non-profits of course, the issue would be that if they create this presence than they have to keep it up to date, we’ve talked on a couple different occasions about not getting involved in social media if you can’t keep it uninterested fresh presence. So you have to think about the time and perhaps money that you might be devoting to google plus, which is probably not going toe, certainly certainly not going to be our last social media platform. Absolutely, i think we’re still in the the kind of consolidation phases at this point where, uh, but things are changing, adding and eventually coming together. Interesting. Scott koegler is the editor of non-profit technology news, which you’ll find it n p tech news. Dot com, of course, he’s, our regular tech contributor with us once a month, scott, thank you very much. Thanks, tony, good to be with pleasure again on dh, just so that our audience understands you. People do understand the difference between google plus and facebook, so i had said earlier that people aren’t really jumped in the way, scott said. But about ninety two percent of people who you answered our poll said that they definitely do see a difference between google plus and facebook, right after this break, we’ll come back for tony’s, take two, and then it will be breaking down barriers, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dafs metoo welcome back to the show. Time for tony’s take two my block this week is are you asking for more when they’ve given enough? I was in a sort of southern food restaurant, which happened to be in new jersey, and i was paying for lunch at the register, and the woman offered saying that scooter pies are on sale and that they make great snacks. Andi i said, ok, no, thank you. Um and i was signing my receipt. And then she said, and we have a sale on summer clothing, and i thought, okay, this is over the line. I just kept signing my receipt and, you know, gave it back to and said, no, thank you, but that’s where i thought this has some implication for fund-raising i thought she stepped over the line with the second offer, you know, i’ve just paid whatever, thirty five, forty dollars for lunch, i eat a lot, and i had a couple of guests on and then, you know, she’s giving, you know, i don’t mind one attempt at cross promotion. I mean, i do that myself in business, but i thought the second one was over the line and so the implication for fund-raising i think is be careful when you’re asking for that follow-up gift, you know, there are there are some people who believe that an acknowledgement. Ah, thank you letter that scent is should not be should not include a solicitation, foran additional gift of any type, and in fact, one of the comments on my block is a decent one, it says says that but then there’s another school of thought that it’s okay to ask for some types of gift, maybe it’s a gift in your ira if you’re over seventy and a half this year, well, that’s available or some other type of planned gift or maybe it’s purchase of a ticket of the gala, so you just need to be, i think, conscious of what you’re asking people to do when they’ve just done something for you and that’s the whole point of the block post again, it’s called. Are you asking for more when they’ve given enough just trying to raise your consciousness and sensitivity? My blog’s at mpg a dv dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, august twenty six we’re going now too, a conversation that i recorded at fund-raising day, which is a conference held annually here in new york city. It was this past june, and this one is with meghan galbraith, managing director at changing our world. We’re talking, she and i talked about breaking down barriers and here’s that recording. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven, we’re at the marriott marquis in times square in new york city. My guest now is megan galbraith, making his managing director of interactive services changing our world. Meghan, welcome, thanks so much. Durney megan’s topic is integrating your online fund-raising uniting communications, pr and fund-raising for better results. Meghan, i suspect you see a lot of silos that you’d liketo breakdown. Yes, exactly right that’s where we came up with the idea for the workshop in our client work from the interactive perspective we’re seeing like everyone knows that there’s a ton of innovation change going on and the rate of change within the organization to be able to adapt to that with their our mind strategies is a struggle. So we’ve identified what we think is one of the primary challenges as being organization on the sense. Of marketing, wanting to do certain things with social media development, having their online fund-raising goals programs wanting to be able to talk to each other within the field, or sharing stories about those types of things your group kind of dipping in every now and again. So how do you truly look at it from an umbrella point of view and develop a strategy that satisfies all the goals within the or organization? How do you start to break down these silo walls and get people thinking ballistically about the whole good of the organization as well as their own work? From my experience, what i’ve seen is really one, starting with the leadership sonal ege building there to put some attention and some resource is towards it primarily for small organizations that have people doing ten different jobs with one person. We’ve found that we’ve recommended doing what we call a cross departmental task force, essentially focusing primarily on interactive strategies. So we’ve recommended that those core people one people who want to be doing this if it’s not there, their primary job responsibilities, looking at across the department’s who were those people that are excited by the opportunity is excited by the research in the benchmark he’s out there and putting a formal name to who they are and having them work together if they don’t have someone leading a strategy working together to try to double it up. Okay, what are some of the resource is that leadership needs to devote to this? It depends. It depends on if we’re thinking strictly everything’s online e-giving as a whole, looking at what’s been brought in over the past five years setting up your your own baseline for understanding what your return is, and then determining your resource is off of that, basically, but in terms of social media, i think everybody’s in the same boat, we’re trying to figure out what makes the most sense with human talent and then how much financial you’re going to put in there and go, i’d say over the past three years, from what i’ve seen in just from conversations with people and i think most people involved in the interactive space, the research that’s coming out now is extremely useful to help us educator clients about the need for human and financial investment, but also it’s starting to wrap some. Real analytics around these falik well things around social media, which is key. Yeah, the analytics. Megan. You know, i forgot to ask you to take your name tag off because the glass, okay, just because it creates a clam with no light, no, no creates a glare in the light so well, because everybody knows now you know, we’re alive. This is obviously library. The analytics what google analytics obviously very important to say little about what, how maybe a smaller a midsize shop could be using google analytics. Sure, google analytics is key, teo, smaller dammit and larger but with the groups that we’re talking about here, it’s it’s, a tool that one is supported by a lot of knowledge around from google from the non-profit google group, as well as being able to get trained on it if you could search it and learn about it, but from an analytic perspective, it allows you to understand who’s coming to your organization’s website what kind of content they’re engaging around, how they’re moving through your sight, how they’re exiting, how they’re coming in all those types of things, but in addition it off, it allows you to develop goals that you could men see if people are achieving those goals it’s free, which is terrific, but again, it’s an evolving tool, which i think is really key for smaller non-profits that don’t have people too, you know, they can’t always be the experts in every single tool that they have. So i have found that google non-profit group is terrific in providing resources. And training online things about the training. Is there enough online support that a smaller midsize shop could could learn to use google analytics wisely? And there’s also the google grantspace o gram, which i’m not sure if you’re familiar with that place. Still, google grants is an opportunity for non-profits teo get i think it’s not positive on the dollar value, but i think it’s about ten thousand dollars for free advertising our google advertising, google at the edwards so what it does is to it allows it’s an application process, certain organizations there’s definitely restrictions on who can get it, and you can not but it’s a terrific program and it’s part of a suite of opportunities with google on the training that you, you said is available, is that on ly online? Or is there has actually help lines that people that non-profits gold is there live help like that? My understanding of it is more informal in terms of having, you know, tutorials online, youtube type things, those types of things, but again then also depending on the size of the organization, a lot of groups outsource to people as well, but i’d say for the smaller to mid there’s there’s plenty online to get you started. Okay, including the video struck not just reading a screen exactly an interactive piece that’s shows you how to do things and there’s people again in speaking to the idea of people user generated content there’s lots of people who are creating content that isn’t put out specifically by my google, so you could look for those tutorials. And what are some of the goals you mentioned? Having goals is that is, that is specific as we want so many unique hits on this particular page or i guess dollars could be a goal, but i’m thinking, very, you know, small minded because it’s not my field, what what what are some examples of goals that you would have around this work? Well, we approach it from again from an umbrella strategies notice how quickly she agreed, small minded, my small minded suggestion, but it speaks to also sort of the mind set around, and this is something we in our workshops we talk a lot about because people go to the tactical very quickly, and we’re trying to elevate that conversation as a practice to be able to. Say ok, let’s look at this as a whole and say what? Our communication schools, what are fund-raising goals in terms of the types of goals that those could be, you would say, okay, let’s, look, at the past three years with our online giving, what of the vehicles that we used to get those donations was just email? Was it social media all the what of the various channels that got us to this point and helping the set sort of some bass lines around that now, in terms of organizations, you know what i question that i hear quite often is what’s the what’s, the return what’s the formula, what we’re going to get back and to my knowledge and if it’s out there, let me know there really is no true formula like a direct mail model, so organisations are creating it for themselves. They’re looking at their data, they’re looking at the benchmarks that are coming out from the big, you know, organizations researching these things people like service company, product software companies like convenient pantera blackbaud all those have these research benchmarks coming out you khun looking organization from this on the sub market so if your health care organization, what did the other health corps healthcare organizations performing on online and so trying to create a system for yourself and i find the smaller to midsize that’s using that sort of shared knowledge is where they can get to where they can get that that’s all they need to analyze. And of course, the small shop always has a small missile shop always has the advantage of not being so siloed they can’t afford to be, and so they khun so you can use google analytics that will be your that’ll be your own analytics, your micro, and you can compare these to compare your performance to the benchmark well, google analytics as well specific to web site traffic, so depending on the level of the organization in terms of what they’ve invested for there, considerate relationship management software are a variety of things is a variety of tools that allow you to track source asses and performance. So depending on, you know, some organizations have don’t have that they don’t have a system where their tracking, how donations air coming in online most. So i’d say there’s going to be different tools that you can pull and create a dashboard out of that that’s, all talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhancer current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile market. Their motto is, we do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com. Dahna if you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr. Robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. What would you like to see organisations think about? Suppose there just a year older, so because your work is breaking down walls. So what would you like to see organizations do in their first year that would help prevent walls from being built up between pr marketing? Fund-raising well, i think it i’d say from the beginning, having looking at their overall organizational goals and then having the the foresight to plan and be patient with their planning that makes that everything can be short term exact every return is not six months on and also to try things out, you know, try different ways of communicating within the organization. I think siloed activity is not reserved just for interactive work. So i thinkit’s a cultural it’s within the culture of an organization. So if it’s a brand new organization, one most likely the people that are joining it and this is a hypothetical, i would have awesome understanding of the value and the amazing opportunities that are happening with interactive technologies. So it should be at the forefront of their communications and development plans, which i think for some of the more traditional organizations where they have the more traditional developed programs it’s a challenge, but it’s also again returned. So a lot of times, if your energies, if you can prove that it’s bringing bringing some value to the organization, either through qualitative or quantitative, and show that to your leadership show to the people making decisions around your budgets, those types of things and the leadership to a new organization you mentioned earlier we were talking about more established organizations, the tone of the organization, the culture is really set by the leader, which would probably be a founder, and also, i think, you know, it’s interesting to think in terms of the evolution of the workforce, you’re goingto have people coming into the workforce, that these tools and ideas are part of their nature. It’s not something that is a new thing. It’s it’s, how they communicate and how they share content it’s, how they talk to their family and how they talk to their friends. I’m talking primarily from a novel in perspective right now, but that’s going to come into the work force if it hasn’t already, i mean, it has in many ways, so those are the future leaders of these organizations. So it will, i think, for new organizations, my assumption again, that’s an assumption would be that some of the people starting it would be of a generation that is thinking in those ways, no is there is the role of the board very significant here in tryingto again going back to the yurt seminar topic, breaking down the walls between i think, marketing, pr, communications center at what’s the board’s role here, i think the board’s role is to is to certainly show that it’s a priority or feel our communicate that there’s value to these things in their conversations again, it doesn’t have to be wait really strive to educate our clients about and help our clients with is that this doesn’t need to be a separate activity. Interactive is not a separate thing aligns with your development goals in the lines with your marketing in the lines of the organizational goals, so i’d say in terms of the board’s roll, it certainly is if they are on board in terms of understanding the value and being a champion of it in all of the activities where there’s opportunities to integrate it, then that’s key. What about dahna? The leader of a team in a mid size shop who is just not willing to play with the others who are very willing to break down these walls and collaborate, how do we bring that recalcitrant team leader into the into the fold question? Well, you speak hypothetically, i’m not asking to use any client examples by name, but you’re a consultant, you’re out a lot, you have some difficult unit leaders, department leaders to work with. How do we bring them? Go without your go outside of your organisation in terms of showing what other organizations are doing as an examples? I mean, i think that’s a really key there’s a community, you know, this isn’t just what’s happening in terms of shared information beyond an organization’s walls is is key to being able to articulate the need to have these types of strategies within your organization. So if that leader is someone who i would say, if you find that they’re resistant to developing innovative ways to reach donors, which is essentially what what we’re doing here, i would say show, show other examples and trying to get him on board there’ll be a process and that’s what you do all right? And again, i’m going to go in that third time leadership if there’s a leadership commitment, leadership could be helpful in bringing them? Absolutely, absolutely yeah, i mean, i think it all depends on what’s interesting is who owns it too? I mean, which when we talk about breaking down walls, there’s, there’s, sometimes nobody really owns these strategies. So in some ways, i would say, depending on a culture of the organization, we would help to identify who that person might be within the existing tower and say, this is something that could really lead this and help drive an idea hyre or advising that the organization may potentially need to bring somebody in if the goal is to get to a certain level with their online e-giving i’m with meghan galbraith, she is managing director of interactive services at changing our world. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven haven’t talked too much about budgeting on maybe cost sharing because we’re thinking about interactive work in director service across across departments. What was your advice in your your seminar around around cost sharing? Definitely one of the recommendations we have is looking at potentially having identifying task force around these activities and in that in your budget planning process to identify where one where you’re spending money across double spending to saying, well, who owns it and who needs to be responsible for and where should have fall, but definitely looking for cost sharing opportunities in my previous life before consulting, i worked for an international development agency where you ran the strategic communications, and we were constantly finding ways with the program group with the development group to fund the content generation trips so everything online, this content right? You need to share it. You need thio make a compelling case, all those types of things and the technology behind it, of course, but we really worked hard at learning year after year of saying we don’t have the money to do these things we want to do so how do you do it? So you look at what you’re spending in your traditional marketing. You look at who’s going on a trip. How can you train them with certain tools like a flip cam are mobile phone at this point? How can they capture the media to be able to do the various things right to do because the content doesn’t have to be high end high production value, right? It depends, and somebody with a flip cam can do some pretty compelling video if they’re committed to the work and they’re on site somewhere exactly, and the and the active what that continent supposed to do? You know, if it’s if it’s building awareness around your cause or your of your impact, and depending on the channel that you share it with there’s lots of ways tio have to have super high and sophisticated production. There are times for that super hot, but i do think it’s in terms of cost sharing, i think it’s an area that it’s certainly sametz needs to be paid attention to, particularly in this in this area. Megan galbraith is managing director of interactive services at changing our world. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven. Meghan, thank you very much for being against pleasure was great pleasure. That was my interview from this past june with megan galbraith dahna thanks, scott koegler for joining me today and talking about google plus and also meghan galbraith, as well as the organizer’s of fund-raising day two thousand eleven, for all their help back in june next week, an important show robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox, discusses the wave of reliance on outcomes measurement and gives concrete steps and shares tools so that small and midsize non-profits khun stay ahead of this trend toward outcomes assessment on da on a little lighter side, we also talk about easy bake ovens and my eagle scout project. It gets used as an example of what not to do in outcomes measurement. Keep up with what’s coming up on this show. Sign up for our insider email alerts on our facebook page, of course to go to facebook dot com and then the name of the show tony martignetti non-profit radio while you’re there, click like become a fan of the show, please, we’re pressing for close to five hundred lakes. Very exciting, very pleased, thank you. You can subscribe to the show and listen any time on the device of your choice by going toe itunes and you’ll find our itunes paige at non-profit radio dot net i’m on twitter, you can follow me? If you want to comment on the show, please use our hashtag, which is non-profit radio, use it unabashedly. Use it with impunity. Be out there with that hashtag our creative producer is claire meyerhoff, the line producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is sam liebowitz, who is also the owner of talking alternative broadcasting. Our social media is by regina walton of organic social media, the only person listening today. He was able to figure out how to do a google plus hang out that’s. Okay, besides scott that’s, her business that’s, why she works with us, i hope you’ll be with me next friday, one p m eastern for robert penna. As i said, we’ll be talking about the non-profit outcomes. Toolbox. We’re always here at talking alternative broadcasting, always found at talking alternative dot com. Geever no. E-giving you’re listening to the talking alternate network. Duitz to get you thinking. Thank you. Looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Yes. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for isaac tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society politics, business it’s provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to know what’s. Really going on? What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me, larry. 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055: Explaining Earned Income & Leading the Leaders: Motivate Your Board to Fundraise – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Gene Takagi and Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group
Andy Robinson, consultant, and Kerry Kruckel, vice president for development and communications at WNET TV

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. We’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me last week for got women donors from the fund-raising day conference in new york city last june, we talked about successful initiatives to expand your female donor base through targeted and appropriate cultivation, solicitation and stewardship. My guests were michelle walsh from the us fund for unicef and travis fraser from united way of new york city. Then it was linked in for prospect research. Our new regular contributor, maria simple, the prospect finder, was with me to share strategies for using linked in to find people and organizations who could be your board members, volunteers and donors. This week we are explaining earned income. Our legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan breakdown. What earned income is why it can be good. Why it can be bad. Why you need to understand it to protect your non-profit and keep it out of trouble. Then it will be leading the leader’s. Motivate your board to fundraise pre recorded at that fund-raising day conference in june consultant andy robinson and carry kruckel, vice president for development and communications at w any tv public tv in new york city reveal how to move your board to be the best fundraisers they khun b on tony’s, take two from my blog’s, say what’s on your mind. I learned a lesson about better communication from somebody who sat next to me on an airplane this past weekend, and that is tony’s. Take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour we’re live, tweeting today, use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter. We take a break, and when we return, i’ll be joined by jean takagi and emily chan to explain earned income. Stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Bilich hey, are you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation top trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. Welcome back to the show and thank you, samantha cohen. Jean takagi is principal of ennio neo non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the popular non-profit law blawg, which you’ll find at non-profit law blogged dot com. Emily chan is an attorney at neo-sage principal contributor to the non-profit law blawg. They’re both joining me to talk about earned income. Jean emily, welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to have you back. Jean earned income. It can be good. It can be bad. What are we talking about? Well, when we’re talking about her dinkum, we’re talking about income that said, made by non-profits that’s not true. Donations through grants through charging fees, usually for services. Good. Jean, let me let me interrupt you for a moment. Could you talk a little louder? Jane is better. Yeah, that is better if you can keep up that. Thanks. Great. So earned income is about making income from services or goods or other assets that the non-profit may have to sell. And it’s not just asking for donations or grant on it’s. A way to diversify a non-profits revenue sources. Which is a good thing. Especially in times when other revenue sources from donations and grants maybe somewhat precarious because of the economy ah, and it helped to create a self sustaining program of the non-profit another really good thing in a way for non-profits toe leverage, goodwill and other ass. Yep. Okay, so this is income aside from your fund-raising a cz you said sale of goods or services there, there there there’s a lot of earned income out there, isn’t there? Jane? Absolutely. I believe emily sighted in in a recent block post that about seventy percent of the income reported by non-profits is actually derived from earned income sources and not fund-raising okay, so the majority of the of the income all right, and emily this khun b, that could be a downsides and non-profits too, right? Yes, there are to mean reasons why non-profits should be aware of this concept of unrelated business income because first thurs attacks that the irs imposes on income coming from unrelated business activities and second for public charities there’s a requirement that the organization be operated primarily for exempt purposes. So if there is too much unrelated business activity happening, that can actually jeopardize the status. Of the organization. Okay. Jargon jail have to getyou for unrelated business income. Unrelated to what? Let’s, break this down. Yes, on that really? The key concept here. So within earned income there could be activities that are considered related to the exam purposes for which the organization was formed. And then there can also be activities that are considered unrelated to be exact purpose of the organization. Three irs defines this three part of a trader business that’s regularly carried on that’s not substantially related to furthering the except purpose. So really, it gives the definition for unrelated business and that’s kind of how we see which activities are considered related or whether they’re considered unrelated. Okay, so i think the key phrase there is substantially related. Gene what? How does the organization decide whether it’s earned income is or is not substantially related to its a charitable mission? It’s definitely a fact specific inquiry, tony. The general idea is that related business advances the organization’s charitable mission without considering where the profits go. It’s the activities himself that contribute, importantly toe advancing the mission. So even if there was no money generated from that activity, the charity would think that running that business is a good idea because it helps again further, the mission furthers, uh, the interests of the charitable class of individuals trying trying to help no unrelated business is one where the activities really have nothing to do with advancing the mission, but they’re carried out to generate revenues that will be used later to advance the mission and it’s that’s unrelated business that could be subject to the unrelated business income tax and that can get a charity in trouble if it’s engaged in a substantial amount of of that type of unrelated business activity. Okay? And you you draw and a n’importe distinction. I think, between the activity that creates this earned income and the place to where that money goes once it comes into the organization, we’re interested in the former, right? Exactly. So for this analysis, we don’t get her where the money goes. We’re just looking at the activities himself, okay? Yeah, go ahead. Sometimes very difficult to tell. Tony, for example, does selling clothes or other retail items really further a charitable mission. And, you know, on one side, you might say, well, it looks like a department store. It looks like a boutique, but it can for their mission if, like, goodwill, the operation of the business provides education, job training and work experience for disadvantaged class of individuals so it can be very fact specific, and we’d look at all the facts and circumstances to determine whether it’s related or not. Okay, and we have just a minute before the break. So so the activity that we’re interested in is the activity that generates the revenue the income let’s call keep put consistent generates income, and you’re comparing that to the tax exempt purpose, which would be the charitable mission. And that’s, how you’re determining whether the income is related or unrelated? Why am i explaining this? Right? That’s? Exactly. Right. Okay, cool. All right, so we’ll take a break, and when we come back, emily and jean will stay with us. We’ll talk a little bit more about how to determine where, where this related or versus unrelated income fits. And what happens if it turns out to be unrelated. Which sounds ominous. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. E-giving attempting to getting thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get him. Good. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as the building as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten a. M for love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Schnoll welcome back, we’re with jean takagi and emily chan explaining earned income. So, emily, maybe we could talk about a couple of other, maybe just fact situations where i guess the irs has determined or, you know, or some court has determined that that something was definitely related or unrelated income. Can you give another example, besides the one that gene had with the goodwill? Sure, another common example is with museums that generally have this charitable and educational purpose, but they also generate income through activities like a gift shop or having a cafe. So now we’re looking at the specific activities, and the irs doesn’t a kind of a broad stroke with activities it’s going to look at each activity and even within that activity kind of separate parts. So starting first with the gift shop, i’m emily, before you go further, can you can you speak a little louder? Force? Thank you better. Yeah, it is better, thank you within a museum, gift shop, museum, maybe selling items that i’m advanced charitable and educational purposes, for example, their reputations of the art that’s displayed on other items like that, but they also may be selling things like seven years to the city for which is located, which really is not going to be considered substantially related to charitable and educational purpose at the museum. In that case, the irs look att each item, maybe even and determine whether that’s related or unrelated, and so it can get quite nuanced if we done looked to the cafe. Now we’re talking about some of the activities where the irs also make exceptions. So some cafes in a museum may be considered related if they fall under the exception of being there for the convenience of the members and the patrons who come into the museum. But then, if we’re looking at a cafe that open to the public that list, they have the street entrance. Now it’s starting to look like a commercial cafe for-profit cafe, in which case we are arrest may come in and say, this is unrelated income, and now the museum has to be concerned about the two issues we raised earlier of pre-tax or possibly okay, that’s really interesting. So so within this category of earned income, some of it can be related and some of it unrelated, and then the non-profit has to. Account for those separately, like within the same cafe or the same museum store? Yes, on so this is. And another misconception that comes up is not an activity itself, such as running a cafe can actually generate both unrelated and relieving income. I’m so again, and she noted it’s just very fact specific and the na me but they’re not the museum when it reports it’s income in its annual information returned to the irs got toe actually list out every item that generates related versus unrelated business income so it would have to say, well, we we sold some t shirts and mugs of the city city souvenirs. This generated this much income that would be subject attacks. We thought this many art prints and books on art which would be related and not subject to that attack. Yes. Ok, so they do have to account separately for all these different categories of related versus unrelated. Wow. Okay, so is that so it’s fragmented? I mean, they’re the income is fragmented and that’s exactly what the irs calls that they call it the fragmentation rule. Okay. And let’s talk a little more. Jean about the consequence of of unrelated, it earned income. It’s, you and emily both mentioned the unrelated business income tax is that what gets applied to unrelated income? Exactly, and the whole idea be behind the unrelated business income tax was to address the problem of unfair competition with for-profit businesses on dh back in the fifties, when when the law was first created, there were a bunch of large non-profits like universities buying for-profit businesses and not paying taxes when running them within the non-profits can imagine that a small business it could be very upset if this big non-profit competitors came in, didn’t have to pay tax and had this huge competitive advantage over the small business owners, plus the additional advantage of not paying property tax, et cetera, the other the other advantages, aside from not paying tax on the income right, exactly, exactly right. And so you could see how they would be this unfair competition if non-profits weren’t tacked on this unrelated business income, and there is a one thousand dollar general thresholds first, one thousand dollars sort of escape, but beyond that, then it’s considered substantial enoughto require that the non-profit file a special information return or tax return. Reporting it’s, unrelated business income tax and the income tax is a tax on the normal corporate tax rate that a corporation would have to file a for-profit business would have to file, which is generally somewhere between fifteen and thirty five percent rate. Okay, and there’s an additional return to report this beyond the nine, ninety it’s not just a schedule in the nine, ninety that you that you ah, that you file correct it’s a separate return called the form nine, ninety and just like the nine, ninety, it has to be publicly disclosed. Okay, tea for taxable. Maybe. I don’t know. Okay? Or tea for tony, i think it’s the nine. Ninety tony for i prefer that. Okay, so who should be making this call mean, does this this is definitely require an attorney? If you have this earned income that you know, outside you’re fund-raising income, you’re getting money for goods and or services? Does this have to be an attorney making the call as to whether it’s related or unrelated her candid account into it? Or or who? Offgrid i think it’s a mixture of individuals that really can help make this decision. I’m in one respect there really is a business decision that has to be made by the organization and its leaders, even if the organization is generating related income. I mean there’s questions about whether there’s capacity the resource to support it and weather engaging in these activities might even lead to something like mission creep, where the organization starts to move further and further away from the reason it was organized. I’m certainly having the help of experts can be incredibly useful for an organization as kind of our discussion is highlighting there’s so many nuances to this rule, and unfortunately, the irs doesn’t give kind of a straightforward, bright line threshold to say where you’ve crossed that line and now have based on certain consequences, such as getting your tax exempt status provoked. So i certainly think there are many people who could be useful durney i’m with jean takagi principle of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. Emily chan is an attorney in that firm. So emily, you just mentioned possible revocation of your tax exempt status. What? We haven’t gone that far yet. What? What is that about? So public charities when they first formed one of the requirements under the internal revenue code is not this organisation be primarily operated for the exempt purpose? The issue with unrelated business income is now is there’s too much unrelated business activity? The irs is now saying you’re no longer being primarily operated for related purposes. Unfortunately, though the iris has not said definitively at what point can you say now? We were engaged in substantial on really business activity many people ask for, like percentages or income amounts, but unfortunately, the irs hasn’t spoken on that. Many practitioners fall on the twenty percent rule of thumb of, um, the amount of generated income coming in, but sometimes being office may reap are looking at the amount of resource is the organization is actually dedicating unrelated business activity as opposed to how much income is generating let’s stop for one moment. So on emily, i have to remind you speak a little bit louder, please. So twenty percent you’re saying some practitioners use a twenty percent. What are we taking? Twenty percent of if that’s your if that’s the test, you’re using twenty percent of gross income from unrelated businesses, okay? And and some practitioners think that is a threshold for for what, when you have to report it or or what it’s a good rule of thumb common amount that many practitioners fallen for when the organisation should be concerned now that they may be e-giving into too much unrelated business activity in which consequences could be oh, i see. Ok, so there isn’t a bright line. There isn’t a bright line as to how much is too much. Some practitioners use twenty percent. I don’t there’s some practitioners who think as long as it’s not above forty nine percent that you’re okay, yes, but certainly arrange again because the irs hasn’t said exactly at what point they believe that the line is drawn and partially because the analysis is still back specific, it may just be difficult for the irs to say definitively across the board this is the one amount where every organization must follow-up right, i can jump in turn, please, you know the irs is really looking at all. The resource is being used by the non-profit that’s directed at the unrelated business. So if it’s, using ninety percent of its resource, is not to engage in charitable activities, but to engage in the unrelated business and the unrelated business is only generating ten percent of the total gross income. Well, that’s still probably too much unrelated business activity devoting ninety percent. You know of your resources towards it on dh. That could lead to revocation of exempt status even below that twenty percent rule of thumb. Because we’re really not just looking at the income, really looking out at how the organization is using its research. So on the sort of congress sight, if it was using only five percent of its resources and it was generating eighty percent of the growth income of the non-profit that may be okay really generated so much income is just so little resources are going towards that, and then the other ninety five percent are all going towards furthering its charitable purposes directly. So it’s it’s really more than just the percentages, but anything over twenty percent, i think emily cause that is a good rule of particularly for account that he may not be looking at the activity level, but looking at the numbers and saying, hey, you better talk to an attorney when you get to that level of income from unrelated business. Okay, interesting. So i just want to recap a little where we’re talking about earned income, which is different than your fund-raising income, but so it’s a part of your gross revenue apart from fund-raising income discerned income and then earned income could be either related or unrelated. And we’re talking about now the consequences of having too much of the income unrelated. And jean, you had said the threshold for reporting is a thousand dollars. Is that right? That’s? Right. Ok, so if you have over a thousand dollars of unrelated income that’s, when you have to file the nine ninety tony form nine ninety tony form that that’s, right? And i should add, actually sort of define what growth income means without trying to get into jargon jail here. Okay. Income for this purpose is means the gross receipts, less the cost of good souls. So, for example, if we had t shirts and we sold two thousand dollars worth of t shirts and the t shirts costs us twelve hundred dollars, how then are gross? Income is only eight hundred dollars, so we wouldn’t have to file the nine. Nineteen. Okay. Okay. Ah, are there? Are there exceptions to the so what’s could be unrelated business income, gene? Yeah, they’re they’re exceptions to the whole area, unrelated business income tax and whether it would apply and the common exceptions that that we talk about are the three basic ones. When is the volunteer exception? So if the unrelated business is carried on by all volunteers, that will be an exception, and those activities will not generate income that’s subject to that unrelated business income tax. The other one emily mentioned is when activities unrelated business activities are carried on for the convenience of members or patients or students, and that might be like a hospital, gift store or bookstore in in a and the university or the example that emily brought up a cafe inside a museum that serving just the museum patrons. That’s called the convenience exception and is another exception where you don’t get charged with that unrelated business income tax. And the third exception that’s often cited is the donated good exceptions and that’s when you run an unrelated business like a thrift store. But all of the goods inside the thrift store were donated so similar to again the goodwill model. In some cases and and other thrift stores that are run by non-profits it’s a business and it’s unrelated but it’s all donated goods so they don’t have to pay the unrelated business income tax there’s one more modification we call separate from these three basic exceptions that everybody should know about and that’s the passive income modifications. So if you’re generating a lot of income from interest and dividends and red ilsen royalties but it’s passive, you’re not doing any activities, teo, get that that income it was just based on investments that will not be subject to the unrelated business income kapin but it gets so complicated that they’re exceptions on exceptions and exceptions, those exceptions? Yeah, no kidding, especially. I’m sure about the passive income when you start getting two rents and especially ranson and there’s prints on commercial property. Okay, let’s, not go that far. But i am interested in the volunteers that first exception volunteers doing all the work. So? So if you had any employees like in a thrift shop supervising volunteers, then then you wouldn’t qualify for that exception. Is that right, jean? It would be we would look at it from a substantiality points. So it’s substantially, all of the workers were volunteers. Then we’ll get that exception. You may still have a back person sort of supervising all the volunteers, and that could still work out. Ok, ok. And emily, the donated goods that does that exception have to be one hundred percent? Or is that also? Ah, substantiality test there for that exception, we’re looking again at it reality. So with many thrift shops, we see this happening. But certainly, if there’s a combination of exceptions to the unrelated business income roll and then there’s one or i think school that are considered unrelated. Then again, the fragmentation role, as we talked about earlier is going to be triggered on the organization is going to need thio mark each category. Make sure it accounts for that. Okay? Fragmentation, substantiality unrelated business income in the nine ninety tony form jean is there anything we want to wrap up with? We have just a minute left. Anything we haven’t said about earned income that you think small and midsize non-profits should know well, apart from the whole related and unrelated part, that big driving force behind designing to engage and earned income ventures is deciding whether you really got the capacity to do it, and it makes sense it’s compatible with your mission. You’ve got the right assets that are worth selling probably want to pick the low hanging fruit first do stuff that you’re already good at because you don’t want to surprise your staff with managing a totally unknown entity and unknown venture on distracting them from from doing the mission and want to get involved too. As he plan about that, you need to know the laws and risks involved. Whether you’re selling goods, maybe sales tax are involved, you may have new employment issues and intellectual property issues, social media issues, licenses, permits, insurance and all of those things. So getting some experts to help you making sure you have the capacity to do it ahead of time. Those those are my best tips for you jean takagi and emily chan gene is a principle of neo the non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the non-profit non-profit law blogged at non-profit law blogged dot com emily chan is an attorney at neo-sage principal contributor to that blogged emily gene, thank you very much for being on, we look forward to hearing talking to you again next month. We look forward to it as well, tony. Thank you, real pleasure. Thank you. We take a break, and after the break, tony’s take two and then leading the leader’s motivate your board to fundraise, so stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rodder with us fun for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. My block this week is, say, what’s on your mind and that’s the topic of tony’s take two on an airplane just this past weekend from chicago to new york. I was with a girl who was just very forward about saying things that that a lot of us would filter. So there was there was she’s, twenty four years old, elisa, and it was clearly, you know, some disorder that just made her say what was on her mind just as i entered the just entering the row to sit down, she asked me what’s your name, how old are you? Are you married? So, you know, that’s got me thinking, you know, she was very charming and sweet and at the same time, you know, unashamed, um and it just got me thinking, you know, they’re there we censor ourselves a lot, and we suppress things that maybe sometimes appropriately suppressed i mean, we can’t all be saying all the things we’re thinking with we’d all be without jobs without friends, but some things i think way sensor maybe should be said and and ah, not avoided just because they might be very sweet or, you know, unmanly. If you’re a guy or maybe because they might be, um, you know, a sign of weakness, so i just raised my consciousness about censoring myself and saying more things that i’m thinking and letting people be more aware of what my thoughts are in the right circumstances. And so i thought that might be a benefit to you because so much of our work is relationships in our inn. Non-profits so that’s say what’s on your mind, it’s on my block, which is that m p g a d v dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, august nineteenth. We’re now going to move to leading the leader’s motivate your board to fundraise. This was pre recorded at fund-raising day in new york city this past june, and here is that interview. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven were in new york city times square at the marriott marquis, and i’m joined now by andy robinson and carry kruckel andy is principal of andy robinson consulting. Carrie kruckel is vice president for development and communications. Wnt channel thirteen here in new york city. Welcome both of you. Thank you. It’s pleasure beings for having us. Our pleasure. Your seminar topic is leading the leaders how to motivate your board to cultivate major gift. I’ll tell you, we’ve done about half a dozen interviews today, and the board has probably come up in four or so of those of those six so far, but now critical the board’s role in fund-raising and how do you want to start the start? The topic? What? What? What is their responsibility? Well, where i would start this topic is i’d say we have to define fund-raising so it’s not just asking for money. It is the whole cycle of behavior. It’s identifying prospects, it’s cultivating it’s asking it’s, thanking it’s, recognizing its involving and so all that stuff. And if we define fund-raising is asking for money. There are a certain number of people, including a certain number of board members who will never get there. Okay. On the other hand, if we define fund-raising as this larger piece of work that we all have to do, then i would argue pretty strenuously they that there’s a place for everybody in that cycle, even the board members who hate to ask for money. There’s just the old fund-raising or something they can do? Absolutely there friendraising there. Friendraising yeah, we call it friendraising fund-raising atar side, which is the same thing. And it’s absolutely critical because actually, my feeling is that you don’t want every boardmember asking for money. Let’s, let’s try to go through a little life cycle of a boardmember how do we make sure we recruit board members who want to participate in this in his willingly? So, andy out recognizing that there may always be some that will will object strenuously and never maybe we’ll get to the difficult cases, maybe, but in the light in the opening lifecycle, how do we how do we recruit correctly? Andy? Well, the first thing is transparency mean, let people know when they’re joining your board that this is one of the expectations and i’m a believer and job descriptions, i think you specify what expected. Boardmember and i think the job description has to be reciprocal, meaning we’re gonna expect you to raise money on one side on the other side, we’re going to train you how to do it, we’re going to support you or give you some options and how you participate. Oh, so there actually is organization responsibility. It’s reciprocal? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, where a lot of lorts fail and be interested to hear your take on this carry. A lot of boards fail is they bring people on and they say, go raise money and they kick him in the butt and they supposed about the door do it there’s not training, but on the morning there’s not support. I mean, there’s, this sort of fantasy that they’re all they all come in as skilled and willing fundraisers. And that is rare. Carrie, how about you? For the recruiting side on the recruiting side were very strategic. And w n e t we have a committee that’s, just a people. So of my board of forty, only eight are formally asked by the chairman to be active solicitors for deb unity. And they partner with me. I trained them on. We have a whole business plan that they stick, teo, that we establish the beginning of the year. Now, just as important to that group a zach repairs to the organization is all trustees do. We asked him to give when they joined the board, we have a give and get yes expectation it’s very clear it’s not give or get you have to give not all of our trustees khun give it the same level, but they all have the ability to additionally get one of the criteria for recruiting a boardmember sir, is what is the network that they’re in what’s their orbit in sphere of influence and that’s we played too. We played to that strength rather than to a place that they may not be familiar. So that’s really key. So everybody comes in with a certain capacity said, but only a handful of people work with me on act, actually soliciting gifts, large gifts, the rest friendraising yeah, just once just one fifth of your board, but the andes to the point that andy made there is a role for everybody, so rule for only one fifth of your board is actively soliciting, right? But i would say another two to three fifths of our board are actively friendraising calling me all the time with great leads, contacts, ideas, and then the development committee is a very tight, working operation that, you know, we activate when we’re ready yeah, god, those eight people self selected or you hand picking the ones you want to turn into solicitor’s i’m in the process of handpicking because i just joined the organisation fifteen months ago, so i inherited a wonderful development committee, but some on that committee still are not comfortable soliciting. They’re more comfortable, say, leading a major gala that raises three million for the organization so that’s that’s significant in a different way, but know, as i handpick in this new new year, we have two new co chairs and they they go about fund-raising from a different very different points of view. One is a seven figure donor and annual basis, and one is a six figure donor, and so we tackle it different ways. One is very entrepreneurial and, you know, a tremendous seller, great talker, the other one is very focused wants to close five gifts at a million or more. So you create this this dynamic of what’s a business plan for each of them that kind of gets the whole committee where they want, and that also suggests the support that the organization has to provide in terms of a business plan, you’re talking about a business. Plan for each of them that’s i’m sure developed in collaboration with them, but your staffing that plan on dh you’re proposing the plan to them, right? Staffing that committee is probably fifty to sixty percent of my work. It’s a big part of my job and you say an interesting word, it’s, a business fund-raising is totally a business, and until trustees see how that business is an operation, they don’t really trust the process. I kind of think they might be asked out there on a whim, asking for money, but there are three major categories of running a very solid development shop, whether your staff of three or staff of seventy like we are, but you have to have those principles in place and regularly talk about them so that the trustees feel like there was a very strong foundation that’s pushing this for them and supporting them and support them now. And he talked earlier about proper training of a new boardmember what? What is training look like wnt for a new boardmember around fund-raising around fund-raising? Yeah, um, it’s pretty informal. I mean, we have formal orientation for all of our board members when they join and then every year all the board members get a mini kind of refresher, but when it comes to fund-raising, we sit down and we establish our goals and objectives together, i usually come in with a set of recommendations that i review with the chair and the co chair, but i really trained them as they get ready and go out. I equip them with basically the case for support, so anytime they’re out socially or if they’re setting that i’ve set them up for they know the elevator pitch, but until they’re actually going out on a call, i don’t train them until they’re going on a call. So that’s basically a really sell that briefing, and then you know, half an hour on the phone or sit down where we kind of go through that solicitation. Every solicitation is different, all right? But i don’t formally trained them. I don’t bring in outside consultants to train them. I’ve been doing this for twenty two years. Why generally, you know i might this year will be my first let’s see will be my second year kicking off the committee for the fall can i probably will have three new committee members, so i’ll probably take forty five minutes to kind of go through the rules of the game and how they’re set up tio have a great experience and a win win for the organisation, right? And then i’ll do one on one training and what kind of feedback do you like to see from a boardmember after they’ve been in the kind of meeting that carries talking about preparing them for afterwards, how do they feed back what they’ve learned in that meeting to the organization? Yeah, it’s a good question. First of all, the classic way we do this, i don’t know if this is true it w n e t the classic way we do this, we go out hairs, it’s a boardmember with a staff member and sometimes boardmember zehr skilled enough to go out alone and do asks and that’s fabulous, but i think that’s the exception rather than the rule. So usually what this looks like is thie carries of the world are sitting down with the boardmember after the meeting’s over, and sometimes you’re doing this in the car, you know, when you’re sitting in somebody’s driveway and what did? We learn how excited is this person? Are there other next steps that we need to take who’s goingto leave who’s going to take that next step? Who’s going to lead on that? How do we follow up with that person? It’s not a bad idea to produce some sort of scratchy where you actually have a standard set of questions you’re asking each other to debrief the meeting. So you actually have something you can then put in the database and use that to manage the relationship? What do you like to see andy in terms of the other relationship? Sorry, the other board dishpan ce abilities, aside from soliciting let’s say we have boardmember is that our? We’ve agreed, mutually, either i don’t solicit or you’re not comfortable listening, and we understand it. What are the other roles? Well, this could be an entire phone call baizman entire interview unto itself, but just off the top of my head, one is identifying prospects, even if they’re not willing to approach those people individually. Another one is creating opportunities to educate people, so if you’re at a radio station, you could bring him in and give mature if you’re a land trust you could take him out on a hike. If you’re working with children, you could bring them in to see the kids doing what they’re doing. It’s a cultivation piece on the back end? I’m a great believer in boardmember is picking up the phone and thanking donors, even people they don’t know and saying, hi, my name is andy robinson, i’m a volunteer boardmember with name of organization, i am not calling this evening to ask you for money, pause, you know, they collapsed on the other end of the phone, right? I’m just calling to say thank you, and these phone calls are revelatory because a lot of board members expect they’re going to get grief and people. Wow, i love your organization is so great it’s a privilege to give and it’s a really good way to ease people into fund-raising without the ask part that’s just half a dozen things they could do what i liked about that that last ideas having boardmember calls that ghetto learned the exuberance that’s out there, even if they’re calling fifty dollar donors, you could have boardmember calling fifty or hundred dollar don’t love that, yeah, i would love that. And then they learned that. There’s, this, this is base of support. It doesn’t only exist among the six and seven figure donors, and the variation on this and i’ve done this several times is tohave. Donors come to a board meeting and do a little donorsearch. Because a lot of board members think donors air from mars don’t know when they’re different species. And actually, they’re just like everybody else. Except they love your organization more than most people know. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Buy-in this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. 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And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. No. Durney carrie, how are how are you using boardmember sze who the ones that are not soliciting the other, the other four fifth what are some ways that they are directly involved in fund-raising they are every board member’s assigned to a committee wnt so we have seven committees, so they’re all engaged in some aspect of the mission of the non-profit my job, as i see it is the chief fundraiser is, too connect the fund-raising relevance to other parts of the opposition they may be working on, so if they’re working on programing, or if they’re working on investments or finance is what is the value of that work to the role we do and fund-raising so making the connections is really in part because a cz you pointed out they all have thinking about fund-raising they may not all be actively engaged, so the challenge is is how do you how are they experiencing the kind of the mission in a way that they’re feeling connected that keeps them kind of, in a sense, cultivated as prospects themselves and that’s a really big challenge? Because if you’re on the audit committee, that is not really a very inspiring everybody wanted wnt everybody want to be on the education committee because that’s where the programs that work with kids, mostly and that’s what they want to do because that’s exciting, but there are other fiduciary responsibilities, so it’s a challenge? So what we do is the ceo, the chairman, and i actually spent a lot of one on one time with our trustees, we take them out to lunch, we try to meet every trustee twice a year, just one on one intimately because board meetings, you really can’t connect on an intimate level. You really getting business done that’s a really valuable idea, i think connecting the leadership with the ceo with the with the boardmember include maintaining that relationship, you created friendship and trust there, but then we also i’m a big believer in events as a way to keep the trustees kind of socially connected. They don’t have to come to all the events, but they come to one or two a year in the months that you’re not doing boardmember ings w n e t we do a lot of screenings for new shows that we’re airing and that’s when we have trustees president, we give him a role, we ask himto welcome the guests, we ask him to go meet three or four people, so they always have a role in friendraising on the external side when they’re not doing the work of the board. I’m with carrie kruckel, vice president for development and communications, wnt thirteen and i see, um and anne robinson principle of anne robinson consulting their topic at fund-raising day two thousand eleven is leading the leaders how to motivate your board to cultivate major gifts, and this is tony martignetti non-profit coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven in new york city. Andy, what do you like to see in terms of the relations, the working relationship that carry started tow talk about between the ceo and the board around? Fund-raising well, i think the first thing is that there are ceos, executive directors who embraced fund-raising get it who are excited about it, and there are those who don’t and i have been development staff, it organizations where we had one and where we’ve had the other and this was was work is a whole lot easier if the ceo gets it and embraces it and understands it. So i’m going to start with the assumption you have one of those if you do the answer, the question, i think, is to have shared expectations that air clear about who’s going to do what and to find ways to engage people at the board level who will lead on this and the way i think about this and someone taught me this term is to have a successful fund-raising board, you need someone who is the spark plugs on the board when it comes to fund-raising because usually the way this works is staff are saying to the board, you need to raise money, you need raise money, we need help, and this is basically going to your supervisors and saying to them, you’re not doing your job well, which is tricky, she’s ill should that sparkplug be the chair of the development committee? Well, that works for me, but i’m less about the title, and i’m more about the personality, the attitude i mean, if you don’t like sparkplug, we can work with the word coach, we can work with the word cheerleader. I like the word enforcer, okay, but one spark plug, good to spark plugs. Better threespot plugs you have a really good fund-raising board, and if you can invest this person with a title like chair of the development committee that’s great, but i have seen it work really well when the chair of the development committee was more about the details and logistics, but they weren’t the one who did training and inspiring and enforcing. So i’m good either way, but somebody at a board level has to has to be that person, and the role of the ceo is to make sure you have that person to support them and doing that, make sure that they can do their job at a peer to peer level on the board. Okay, carry it sounded like you had something to say around around that relation that ceo board relationship, i would add that your board chair and your president, ceo and fundraiser have to compliment each other, so if you know what you have going into the mix and you don’t have the right balance of strengths, then you need to recruit very actively. Having a strong ceo who likes to solicit as well as the chairman can often be very problematic if they’re both looking for, you know, the chance to close on a gift and you have a donor who’s got two very aggressive people at the table that’s pretty tough, so i, like i’ve always looked to find a nice balance if the current ceo i work for is somebody who’s ah, wonderful articulator, but not necessarily was comfortable with making the ask or the clothes i’m looking for a chairman or a trustee to support him. Who has that complement the personality i generally find they’re just going backto. One point is, is that it’s really the rule the fundraiser to fill that gap? Knowing what your strength or as a professional fundraiser and playing those up, i probably can wear twenty different hats a w entity at any given time to support the trustee or their ceo or the chairman in an ask or a cultivation, because i’d have so much experience and see where the gap is in terms of how they’re going to relate to a potential donor. And i think that’s a number something non-profits can’t overlook is hiring the right fundraiser who has that kind of experience and working in a lot of different settings. On gonna frame this slightly differently. And i think this is complimentary. Really? Good development directors are good at getting other people to ask for money. Yeah, and, you know, doing it themselves? Absolutely. But the good ones are empowers. And trainers and supporters and that’s another way of what you just said. It’s a good point. Can i raise a second point, please? We’re talking, quote unquote. Major gifts and carry rolled out the six figure gift in the seven figure gift. And there are plenty people listening to this who will find those numbers to be frightening. Yeah, a thousand dollars is some organizations of thousand buckle is a major gift. The principles are the same. It’s. Not about the amount of money. It’s people who we consider major donor prospects, they get treated differently. They get more attention, we get more face time with, and we’re trying to find a way to engage their interests in a personal way. And that is really irrelevant about the amount of money we’re talking about. Okay. Excellent point. Thank you. And i agree. It’s. Very good. Carrie. What do you like to see around the the organization’s support of board? Members who are who are actively engaged in fund-raising what what kind of role is the organization playing toe to support those boards? Boardmember well, what i love to see that i don’t see much is an entire organization that understands the rule of the board and threw their department say their area of expertise, whether it’s, a on the mission delivery side or the education cider, the outreach side is that the leaders of those departments are justice. Capel is a fundraiser and communicating the progress of the mission of the non-profit to that board tends to fall into the lap of the fundraiser of the chief fund-raising almost every time you’re managing all aspects of the board, so but that’s, what i like to see, even an organization that doesn’t have it is a readiness and an understanding that we all are cultivating our board on the ceo or i’m the vice president, this department, i have a role in that, so i do spend time with my colleagues training, preparing them, helping them understand their role each year in terms of how they would interface with their committees that they’re managing, but i think that’s a really key part because it can’t just fall in the hands of the chief fundraiser at any size organization because it’s, very time consuming fund-raising really has to be out there also asking for gifts of other donors, not just working with the trustee’s. It was kind of building that pipeline, and so if you’re internally managing all components of the board, it’s very challenging, so i look for that but it’s really hard for non-profits to achieve that, you know, andy would have about thirty seconds left. What do you like to see you? So you have to be a little brief in terms of the organization supporting its member, its board members well, love, um, show appreciation, even if they don’t do absolutely everything you want them to do, reinforce anything that’s a positive behavior in this direction because these people are volunteers, they’re doing this on their own time with their own love, and we need to show appreciation even if they don’t do it perfectly if they do it pretty good. That’s a step forward, so i would honor that. Andy robinson is principal of andy robinson consulting carry kruckel is vice president for development and communications. W n e t thirteen there seminar topic is leading the leaders how to motivate your board to cultivate major gifts and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven in new york city in times square. Carrie andy, thank you very much for being guests. It was a real pleasure. Thank you, thank you for having us. That was my pre recorded interview from this past june the fund-raising day new york conference next week. Google plus for your non-profit our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, scott koegler is with me to size up the newest big splash in social networking and also break down the silos, integrating communications, pr and fund-raising for better results from the fund-raising day conference in june, my guest will be meghan galbraith, managing director at changing our world for this week. I want to thank jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit exempt organizations law firm and andy robinson and carry kruckel as well as the organizer’s of fund-raising day two thousand eleven for their hospitality from week to week, you can keep up with what’s coming up. Sign up for our insider. Email alerts on the facebook page. While you’re there like us and become a fan of the show, you know where facebook is. Just go to tony martignetti non-profit radio. When you’re in there, you can listen live or you can listen. Archive. The archive is at itunes. 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Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me, larry. 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054: Got Women Donors? & Lovin’ LinkedIn for Prospect Research – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Michele Walsh, director, leadership gifts, at U.S. Fund for UNICEF
Travis Fraser, director, major gifts for United Way of New York City
Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder, consultant in prospect research

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio on friday, august twelfth. I’m your aptly named host tony martignetti hope you were with me last week when it was wild woman fund-raising i had mazarene treyz consultant and author of the wild woman’s guide to fund-raising she was with me for the full hour to share her thoughts about career social media grants, manship and mohr. We did our live first tweeting last week, and we’re going to keep that up this week when it is got women donors from the fund-raising day conference in new york city this past june, we talk about successful initiatives to expand your female donor base through targeted and appropriate cultivation, solicitation and stewardship. My guests are michelle walsh from the us fund for unicef and travis fraser from united way of new york city second half of the show linked in for prospect research i’ll be joined by our new regular contributor maria simple the prospect find her, she’ll be sharing strategies for using linked in to find people and organizations who could be your employees boardmember sze volunteers and donors. As i said, we’ll be live tweeting this week the hashtag is non-profit radio we’ll take a break, and then we’ll start with god. Women donors you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Neo-sage you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s a lawrence h bloom two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five zero two. We make people happy. Zoho hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com durney durney welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven at the marriott marquis in times square in new york city. My guests now are travis fraser and michelle walsh. Travis is director of mate gif ts for united way of new york city and michelle walsh’s, director of leadership gif ts for the united states fund for unicef. Welcome, thank you, thanks pleasure to have you, they’re seminar topic is success stories got women donors, and so we’re all about talking about female donors. Michelle, why are female donors important? Why are the important they’re important? Yeah, i mean, if you look at research even to start, which is where we were talking earlier today, it’s, they’re making up a larger part of the e-giving population than ever before. So i was just referencing an article earlier where in two thousand five was the first year that the irs had records that women were actually out giving men as a whole. I think it was sametz twenty one billion as compared with about sixteen or seventeen billion so and that’s already, you know, six years old at this point, but they have huge giving power and very often that they make their decisions differently, and we need to be aware of that and that they also are motivated differently, so i think they’re important because they do give and when they do give, they tend to mobilize people, so not only did they give their own funds, but they’re also generating additional support very often and travis. Of course, in the upper ages, women survive men on average, yes, moflow closer tonight. So? So if we’re talking about deferred or planned gift, women become critical because typically they’re inheriting their husbands, their husbands, states or a portion of yeah, yes, that’s that’s true, we don’t deal a lot with plant giving within our women’s group, and i think as our core group of members ages and we start looking broadening, i guess t younger populations, we might start making plans with four plan giving with them, but because of how we’re able to engage them and draw them closer to the organization, they really i thing translate into perfect prospects for for major get for plant gifts in the future. So, michelle, you mentioned different donor motivations women versus men. What are some of the differences that you see? I think that women as a whole, obviously only one particular woman relies right, but that if you look at women as a whole, very often they’re motivated by things that they can connect with and be involved with, so they’re motivated by family, they’re motivated by making a difference. We’ve noticed that it’s not usually being on a donor list or being on a donor wall, they also want to be a part of a community that’s doing something that has results so there really is a motivation about doing. Good in the world and what? What? That accomplishment iss okay, and how do you find that different than than the male donor? I think that it’s not as driven in terms of the connection. So seeing something and seeing what it’s doing hasn’t been as much of a motivator for men in that same when you can have more of ah here’s here’s the information this is what it’s going to do? Of course they want to know what the results are but it’s not as much of a desire to be engaged in the process. Okay, yeah, michelle, your work does include working with older donors seventies and eighties women in those ages. I would say that it’s across the board. So we’re looking at ultra high net worth individuals and that’s really are deciding factor. There are certainly maura’s. You get up towards those hyre age groups of people that have accumulated that type of wealth. I think you spoke earlier with some of my colleagues who were talking about the younger generation twenty one to forty, right? And so we’re looking, really hoping towards getting most of the people to million dollar giver is a leadership. Gifts for us is one hundred thousand, but if we’re looking at that group, they are going to be, you know, tend towards the older end of it, but the representation of what portion of that is seventy to eighty, you know, i wouldn’t know off the top of my head, but there are certainly some people in there that would be in that age group, okay? And when you’re dealing with women of that age, i’m trying to focus. We’re talking about dahna motivations what’s your experience with when the husband was the primary donor on dh he’s, now deceased, you’re going to the you’re going to the surviving wife, what’s your experience around their willingness to teo continue to give, i think i mean it’s so individual if they’re very defined and what they’re giving is it’s, you know, very often on lee really about honoring someone’s memory, but if in order to engage them personally is the only way that i think that you’ll be able to get to that larger gift on dh to be able to do that, we’ve had it in a couple of instances, but getting back to even what the data is. Is that women are making more of the decisions while they’re alive. We know, with the married spouses well, i think travis actually was talking about what i was yeah, yeah, don’t you want to, travis? I mean, there there have been some recent studies out that are really showing that women are making about eighty percent of all of the sort of household financial decisions, whether that be philanthropic decisions, just what they buy, what goes into the household there there really the decision makers and i i feel like as fundraisers, we’ve really been led to believe that they are making it in tandem as a couple on dh in some cases that’s, true, but what we’re really finding through some new donorsearch audis that that is that the female is thie number one sort of decider in that position, okay, even when do we know if that applies? Even when the the husband is the person with the primary relationship to the organization, you know, i’m not sure that it goes that the research goes that deep. Um and i think that anytime you have any part of a couple that’s, the primary relationship, you sort of deal with that primary relationship, but also tried to to engage the other spouse in any way that you can with the work because you really want to see that couple as, ah, holistic entity, you know, it’s it’s, not just one person, yeah, excellent and applies all the more if, if the if the husband is the primary relationship, you certainly do want to bring the wife in because, on average, she’s going to be surviving her husband? Yeah, yeah, you know, and i have to say that being at united way were somewhat unique because a lot of our donors give through workplace campaign, so we’re really dealing with one half of the couple we’re really dealing with the female leadership donor xero followers, or mohr and electing to do that through payroll deduction. So it’s really her decision of what she’s doing with her paycheck? So it really involves her more and what she’s interested in and getting into. I sort of heard interest areas, so that has been very interesting for us, especially in trying to branch out and look towards more individual donors who aren’t sitting in the workplace and developing strategies to get to those people on dh and people that are part of a couple and engaging both of them in the work that we’re doing and we’ve definitely found that. So you know, a number of our male board members and with our particular woman in philanthropy initiative it’s been female board members who have led the charge, but a couple of male board members who have really founded a great opportunity and excuse to engage their wives without them. S so where they’re not just dragging them along to an event that they’re like that’s your cause, but that they’re able teo to feel and ask the questions that they want to ask. Without that, what do you call it? A arm, candy or whatever, however you want to call it in either direction, but that there’s no one there to hold them back or push them forward to engage and it’s been a really good opportunity for us to have some good open conversations with the spouse without the key driver, the ky connection president, they didn’t think dick tooting getting ding, ding, ding ding you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving e-giving cubine. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie allison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com hey! Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Oppcoll zoho do either of you or maybe both of you work around getting volunteer engagement from from females? Is that a part of your work? Or was it all just related to financial giving? Our entire program is volunteer related thie group that i manage is called women united in philanthropy on dh it is managed by a group of volunteers who come in volunteers steering committee that really charts the course of everything that that does so how do you start to get people engaged in that volunteer steering committee? Well, it really has been through the work of other steering committee members, we’ve been around for nine years, and this is a women’s this women’s group. Yes, it started from a conversation we were challenged by a female donor, two who asked us what we were doing to engage female donors, and we didn’t really have an answer for her. So we had a female boardmember who was very interested in getting to an answer. So she opened her home. We took a look at our lists of donors and sent out invitations to a number of our female donors to come together for a round table conversation and what came out of that conversation was very core group of dedicated women who really wanted to build something, and from that, we’ve been able to build a program that really engages women in the topic area that we’re raising money for, which is youth empowerment, and we are able to really talk about the issues that were that that we’re working towards. We give them opportunities to volunteer in the programs to see their dollars at work. Andi have educational forums that bring together some some thought leaders in the areas of education and health so that they really feel like they’re a part of the philanthropic process and that’s really what we tried to do to engage our female donors. Travis foster fraser sorry is a director of major gifts for united way of new york city and michelle walsh’s, director of leadership gif ts for united states fund for unicef and you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven earlier, i said next-gen charity because we were because michelle, when we’re talking about a twenty one to forties it’s next-gen so it got me saying next-gen which way also be at the nextgencharity conference, but today we’re not they weren’t fund-raising day two thousand eleven, travis, do you see a difference in the willingness of male donors versus female in terms of the the time commitment, willingness to spend time? You know, i think that’s an interesting question, and, you know, i a lot of my work is with our our female group, but also with our young professionals group, okay? And i would say that in our young professionals group there’s really not that discrepancy between the amount of time to volunteer, the males and females of that generation are really wanted to eat together, and i would say that with with people that i’m working with on the women’s group there it is a little bit easier to get women out to volunteer opportunities because i think they just really want to see there the work in the fields, and and i think a lot of times, men, i can take it from you as the fundraiser to hear about what their work is doing. Our work is doing it. Michelle, do you see a difference between men and women in terms of their their desire for understanding outcomes? And what the impact of their gift is, is there a difference across the genders there? There probably is i think that women are often underestimated and their willingness to really want to do dig into the data and the financials and all of those pieces. And of course, if your stereo tell you, you know that they wouldn’t get it or that they don’t want to really spend time with a balance sheet or that they’re more emotionally driven or whatever the some of the negative stereotypes are on. Some of them were positive, but does though, right? But i think that women do want to understand what what the back end thinking is, and particularly as you deal with the higher end givers and the more sophisticated philanthropists, they know what they’re looking for, and there are certain delivery bols that they expect, and there are certain organizational structures they expect to be in place with their financial or otherwise, and they ask those questions, and they think very seriously about where they’re going to give their money, you know you’re going through, i can piggyback on that, you know, we have a group of our committee that comes in and meets with our program’s staff to really talk about what they’re doing and and what the investment that women united has made in united way is really is doing, and they ask the toughest questions they want to know exactly what the budget is. They want to know what the money is being spent on, and i think that that is the thinking that you were alluding to earlier is completely backwards. I think they really want to understand the entire issues they want from from costs of services to then what the services are actually doing, that they really want the whole full, holistic three sixty view of initiative. Michelle, you’re experienced. Yeah, and i would say that we’ve sound found more different is between sectors and where people worker identify themselves and professional sectors than male female. So, you know, sort of the hedge fund circle has a certain way of thinking about a problem, and they’ll come at you with a set of questions that are almost predictable, and lawyers have a certain way of approaching it more so than a cross gender lines. I’m not going to ask you to comment on your own individual situation is that united way or united states fund for your staff? Generally, do you see women adequately represent went on boards? So from where i said, i think there’s a couple of key pieces, one is that our ceo is an amazing female leader, and that has really set the tone and a lot of ways for not only supporting our initiative with women philanthropists but inboard leadership. So the four, therefore women, all board members, that air chairing our women in philanthropy initiative and the strategy around engaging ultra high net worth individuals to support the u s from for unicef, and they have all stepped up phenomenally, and i think it’s been critical in having those female representatives on the volunteer level onboard leadership roles, and they represent really influential rose rolls and the rest of their lives, and they’ve brought that to bear on this effort. It’s been absolutely critical about your travis do you worry about again? Not necessarily united way, but do you worry about there being inadequate representation of women on boards? I think there’s there’s more work that needs to be done, but i think that a lot of organizations are realizing that women make very, very strong boardmember is there much more thoughtful about the issues? They really want to understand the full picture of what is going on, and they don’t just sort of make those knee jerk reactions that sounds like an ideal boardmember and and, you know, i can say for the united way system, we recently did a survey of the one hundred and twenty different women’s leadership groups that united way has across our system, and what we have found, which is astounding, is that from the year two thousand seven to two thousand nine, which had the huge financial meltdown united ways that had boards with that were made up of thirty percent or more female participation, their women’s group grew about twenty eight percent in fund-raising and fund-raising and dollars contributed just versus those united ways that had less than thirty percent makeup of women on their board grew their fund-raising grew one percent. So really shows the power i think, of women to really come together, rally around a cause and get people to contribute at very, very critical times, i have to say credit to the person who thought toe look att that variable female representation on the board that’s not that’s, not a very and its outcome in fund-raising that’s, not by any means a typical variable that you would see and look at the outcome of the correlation with interesting let’s. See michele, in terms of let’s, talk a little about, like nuts and bolts. I don’t want to spend a whole lot of time on soliciting women, but we’ll spend a couple of minutes you have advice that’s particular to women about asking, you know, your your work is an ultra high net worth but not necessary, you know, generally soliciting women advice? I don’t think it’s any different than soliciting a man because i mean ideally still stations at that level happened face-to-face one on one and it’s doing good fund-raising and reading people’s faces and listening to the cues and paying attention to what they’re interested in and compassionate about or passionate about. Rather, i think in that regard, it’s all the same, some of the messaging and the way that we engage them leading up to that is where the differences okay and that’s, the stuff we’ve been talking about. Exactly travis, how about for you closing thoughts, i think, really, the only thing that i would add is just making sure that there is a really good next step for them to be involved in a substantive way beyond writing the check, whether that is taking them out on a program visit to go see see the work, whether they they’re volunteering at a school, whatever it is, just make sure that there there’s a really solid next up for them to get involved because they really want to get involved, okay? I just realized we have a lot more time than i than i thought you’ve done yourself. You had your seminar already today or it’s coming up, we had any provocative questions from the audience that you want to share around the subject. We’re interesting, yeah, i was talking to some of my colleagues and some of the other sessions and comparing notes on questions, and i think the one that i heard that came up in all the questions was sort of how to say no, no to a gift, no to the wrong gift or no to a donor who wants to direct very specifically, in a way, that’s. Not in line or give them right. They want to make a decision. That’s not really their decision to make and navigating that. What was your what was? Did you have that in your session or what? Wait. Okay. I know. I mean, i have one of the most important things. Is the fundraisers to know when to say no? And how does they know? And it’s? Not always easy and not everyone’s. Good at saying no, but giving people what we talked about is creating option so people feel like they’ve made it legitimate choice, but not beyond what your realm of possibilities are. So a multiple choice question as opposed to an open ended question where people can say, this is really what i want to dio bye still not creating the program from scratch and tweaking the little details, but giving them real opportunity to be a part of the experience as well the experience of of whatever the program is. So if it’s, you know, for us, it’s obviously in the field and international development. But, you know, even if it’s the question came from someone who was working in parks, even if it’s a parks project making them a part of how that plays out. How about you, travis? Any questions that came up in your program that you want to share one? Well, i think that that my group is able to direct the money at the end of the year that they raise, and that can create a lot of nervousness, i think, among program staff and really, you know, and i know it’s something that unicef does as well, we don’t just open it up and say, okay, you’ve got this big pot of money, where do you want to put it? You know, we we really bring them in so that they can meet with our program staff and give them sort of a menu of options of where we think they could have the most impact and take it from there because we’ve really been able to develop relationships where they understand that we’re going to give them what we think is bad that’s for the organization as a choice, and it really allows them to feel like they’re making a choice and have an investment in what we’re doing. But then, at the end of the day, we get what we need you at the same time, so the organization obviously has a role in setting expectations, managing expectations, sort of, and michelle is, you suggested the multiple choice question, constraining things so that people are not out out in left field success stories got women donors as thie seminar topic for travis frazer, director of major gif ts for united way of new york city, and michelle walsh, director of leadership gif ts for united states fund for unicef, travis michelle, thank you very much for joining me, thinking it’s been a pleasure to have you. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven. That was my pre recorded interview from fund-raising day last june in new york city. Now we’ll take a break after the break. Tony’s, take two, and then, after that, linked in for prospect research, so stay with me. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Dahna this is tony martignetti athlete named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing or mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design, photography, social media management and now, introducing mobile market. Their motto is way. Do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com. Talking. Welcome back to the joe it’s time for tony’s take too, but first a reminder that we are live tweeting today, the hashtag is non-profit radio please join the conversation on twitter on tony’s take two this week. My block post is a test of google plus for your non-profit i was interviewed by new york enterprise report for an article on using google plus in small business, and i thought my ideas might help you to evaluate google plus for your non-profit now, of course, caveat, i’m not a social media guru expert thought leader, a small business owner. And so with that caveat, i’ll tell you what i’m doing with google plus and how i’m evaluating it, and you can see if that makes sense for your office or not. I’m really looking at the people who become my friends on google plus and the features that it ends up offering for the business profile pages, which is, you know we know them in facebook as a fan page. Google plus doesn’t have business profiles yet, but we all expect him to be coming, and google says they are coming within the next couple of months, so i’m going to be interested in who the people are, who joined me on google plus either because i invite them or they’re inviting me if they’re the same as the people i know on facebook, i’m probably going to be less likely to spend a lot of time, you know, keeping up a very active profile page on google. Plus, i would certainly have one, but how much time i devote to it is really what the issue would be on the same thing with the features. If it’s pretty much the same features as a facebook fan page, then i don’t really see advantage, but if it has some things that i’m looking for that i don’t see in facebook like for me, it’s ah good calenda ring application and a good, solid polling application like we can do in surveymonkey but built in facebook doesn’t have those things and it has polling, but not really a strong one, so if it has good features, i’ll be again more likely toe spend more time keeping a very active business profile page on google plus, so those are my ideas around evaluating whether to do that for my business, i don’t know if that’s of value to you, it might be in looking at google plus for your small non-profit um, you can see more detail about that on my block at m p g a d v dot com, and that is tony’s take two for friday, august twelfth with me now is maria simple. Maria is our newest regular contributor to the show. She’ll be on once a month. She is the prospect finder. Maria is an experienced trainer and speaker on prospect research and consults with organizations interested in finding and connecting with their best prospects for long term relationships. Her website is the prospect finder dot com, and i’m really pleased to welcome maria to the show. Welcome, maria, thanks so much. I’m delighted to be here. It’s a real pleasure to have you were going to be talking about linked in today. Lincoln has some new initiative for non-profits you want to explain what what’s up there? Yeah, absolutely so what’s kind of interesting about it is that linked in a little earlier this year, actually in may, haddon i po and so now they are actually deciding they’re going to dedicate some resource is in terms of against money, but as well as human resource is to the non profit sector now on ideo aipo means means what jargon jail mary-jo actually started issuing stock, they became a public company, so initial public offense and they actually launched something called lincoln non-profits solutions, and so what they’ve decided is that they have three point six million individual members who actually identify themselves as either employees or board members of a non-profit so they realize that there’s a tremendous amount of potential to help the nonprofit sector and they are actually i’m going to be helping people they back, they’ve launched a page called learned dot lincoln dot com forward slash non-profits, where they actually give the non-profits both as non-profit professionals, but also as organization’s best practices on tips and tools for how to make the most out of the lincoln for non-profit so they’re looking at both individuals and organizations, you say, and that that three point six million, i’m sure there are a lot more than that because there are one hundred million linkedin users, isn’t that right? Yes. So, yes, you are. But you know, what kind of interesting is that? They somehow been able to identify that there, there are, you know, the three point six million who are somehow connected to the non profit sector, right? Because i’m sure, based on keywords in their profile or just the way they what they identify their employer as, but i’m sure that’s low. I’m sure there are more than three point three and a half percent of the lincoln community working for non-profits but so maybe this initiative will will draw out some more. But even with that three point six million, yes, so they have this the the u r l you gave that’s the learning center, right? Yes. That’s correct. They have a specific learning center set up now for the nonprofit sector. And when you’re on that page, if you scroll all the way to the bottom, they actually have a contact a cab. So their interest sted in hearing from non-profits selves non-profit professionals and organizations and board members as to how lincoln can best serve the specter. So they are open to feedback at this point in their formulating this as they go along and you spoke with someone who’s in charge of this non-profit initiative. That lengthened in you? Yes. Somebody who has recently joined linked in his name is brian breckenridge. And he is heading up the new program there. And he’s, you know, he’s very excited and he’s very open to learning from the nonprofit sector. About what, how they convinced serve the non-profits and so since you had a spoke to him recently, any inside track about what we might be seeing the into the future? Well, i don’t have any specifics to share with you, but i do know that they are planning some interesting changes, hopefully that they’re rolling out in the next, you know, in the next couple of months so it’s, you know, they’re they’re formulating this, they’re looking, they’re taking in and looking for feedback at this point and anything that they can do the best help a non-profit sector they’re looking for that feedback at this time, and then they’ll be looking to roll out some new initiatives, i think okay, and you see value in the lincoln non-profit solutions for prospect research. Absolutely i do, you realise linked in for prospect research and for prospecting. So i utilize it in both, eh? Proactive sense as well, as in a reactive okay, let’s distinguish between prospect research and prospecting. What do you mean, weird? When you say those two different things differently? What do you mean by both? By each? Okay, so if i’m doing research on a potential major donor potential boardmember for the for a non-profit and i have the name of that individual lengthen is definitely one of the places that i go to to try and formulate my profile on that individuals. So that is what i would call reactive research. I have the name of someone, and this is one of my tools that i use to do prospect research. Now proactively you, khun, take linked in and use their advance people search feature to find people who might be suitable for your non-profit for connections in a variety of situations, they have a keyword search. You can focus your search down to within a radius of your zip code of where your non-profit is located, you can focus your search down to specific industries, so if you are looking, if you are let’s, take the example of a on environmental group, right let’s say they are looking to connect with more individuals in their community who are involved in some sort of environmental services so they would be able to conduct this search. Now, obviously, when you conduct a search on lincoln, first of all, you have to have your own lincoln personal on dh. This is using the advanced certain advanced search. Is that right? That’s? Correct. Have on the right on the upper right hand side called advance. Okay, you quick, matt. It opens up an entire new search screen that most people haven’t really access, you know, realize it’s there. And the more rich your own network is, the more people you are connected to, the richer the search results will be for you right now. If i were, let me give you two very contrast examples. I actually happen to have over five hundred connections in my lengthen network. So my search results would be drastically different from somebody who is a very new to lincoln and only has a network of, say, twenty, thirty, fifty people. Because you’re always shown how many degrees you’re separated from someone. So the more people i have in my network, greater search results going so so you mean when? You’re doing this advanced search you’re searching all the hundred million people in linked in and it’s telling you which of those are in your first degree, meaning you’re connected to them directly, which are too removed from you, which are three removed from you. Is that what you think you were searching the whole population of linked in? You can. Yes, but you can ask lincoln to just focused down the search results for you to the people you might be first degree connected to second degree or perhaps where you share a group membership. Because there you’re going to be ah, lot closer. You have a lot closer of an affinity and making the one toe one connection may be easier for you. Ok? Suppose you that’s really rich that you can search the whole hundred million. Suppose you find somebody who’s two degrees removed from you and they seem like a very good i don’t know. Maybe maybe we’re provoc betting for board members. Let’s say, for this, for this environmental group that you suggested you see somebody to removed from you. What? Explain what that means. And then how can you try to meet that person? Okay, tony let’s say we come up with let’s say, i do this search and i’m looking for environmental people who and i come up with a guy named oh, i don’t know john smith. And you and i are first degree connected on lengthen that much i know, but let’s say, john smith eyes second degree connected to me through you. That means he is both first degree connected to you. And i am first degree connected to you. So you are the common link between us, right? Ok, so that would mean john is a second degree. So, like those, like those kevin bacon seven degrees from kevin bacon movie. Right? Because he’s been in so many popular movies. Okay, so you can get to him through me, in other words, that’s. Right. So what did you do? How do you do that? Well, lincoln actually provide you with the the there’s a form that you can fill out so that a message would be sent to both john and to you. Looking for that introduction. I could look to be just connect with john directly and say, john, in my my request to connect, i might say john, you and i both know tony. Andi, i think we have a lot in common. I’d love to be able to connect with you here on lincoln. Always modify that that’s that standard introduction that lincoln provides to you never just go ahead and just use the standard intro, you realize those defaults aren’t aren’t very friendly, really there’s really bare bones, but so you’re allowed to your lot to connect with john smith your lot to contact john smith, even though you’re not directly connected to him. That’s correct. I could just send him an invitation to connect and just mention your name in my little intro is toe. Why? I think he and i might want to connect, you know, it’s up to him to accept my connect. Ction request? Sure. Okay, i see what you’re doing it through the request to connect. Okay. I see. On dh. Then the alternative is you could ask me to connect you to him. That’s. Right? I could ask you directly. I could go the old fashioned way. Tony, i could pick up the phone and call you and say, tony, you know, how well do you know john is? This somebody you know very well can you make some sort of a personal introduction even outside of lincoln through an email system. But at least lincoln’s provide you with the opportunity to identify potential boardmember potential donors in very specific sectors. Yes, the phone. You could pick up the phone and do it that way. And that way we don’t have to communicate through linkedin using their default messages or which we would really like. Anyway, i never thought that you could pick up the phone, imagine it could even have lunch and we could talk about it that way. Way. Imagine. See what? See what the web can do. Encourages you to pick up the phone. How do we had we operate without linked in years ago? I don’t know. So let’s, go back to the learning center. Um, yes. So they have. They have suggestions there for individuals and non-profits maria, we have just like a minute before a break. What are a couple of the not for profit? The organizational suggestions on unlinked in. And then after the break, we’re going to detail. Well, you could create a company page at no cost. So corporations, companies. Small businesses are doing this. We i highly recommend that a non-profit create a what they call a company page for their own. Non-profit, and they actually give the example of the american red cross that has attracted thousands of followers on lengthen and so other non-profits may want to check out what they have done. And, you know, look, learn from that and not reinvent the wheel. Ok, well, look att, the company profile and other things. After this break with maria simple, the prospect finder. Stay with us. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics, politically expressed, i and montgomery taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. You crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation top trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m ken berger from charity navigator. Oh! And i’m tony martignetti and i’m with maria simple, the prospect finder we’re talking about using linkedin to find and connect with people who could be boardmember sze donors, employees, volunteers. So, maria, the advice that you were giving before the break is that a new organization could create a ah profile page that’s correct, and i would highly recommend that they do that and the reason tony is and and i’m not suggesting that they should set aside any of their other social media strategies and presences like that they might have on facebook or twitter, but what you want to be able to do here is this is lincoln is the professional network, so you want to be able to, of course, capture the attention of people who are in the business community. You don’t want to exclude this, so this is free, you know, obviously whoever is maintaining your presence on other social media’s would want to be able to set this up and you can upload your logo. You would be able to give a nice description about the organization, provide your website, there’s, even a mapping feature where they tie it right into google maps. So that people will be able to see precisely where your non-profit is located. So, you know, it’s free, and i think that they should take advantage of that. I think the lincoln says there about one hundred thousand non-profits that have company pages, there should be many more that’s, a that’s, a good number, but there should be a lot more. How specifically does this one do they? I mean, how do you create a a company profile or non-profit profile versus creating a personal profile? Well, of course, the help affection of of lincoln is going to be very, very helpful to you, but they also have here they give you some steps on how you might be able to do that right on the non-profit learning center that we talked about earlier, okay? And again, the girl for that is linked in dot com slash forward slash non-profits actually, it starts off with the word learn ellie, are there yet i left. Yes, thank you very much. Learn dot linked in dot com forward slash non-profits thank you. And now groups are very popular and non-profits can create their own non-profits can create their own groups and you couldn’t decide if the group is going to be a closed group, meaning that everybody has to be first approved by some sort of a group moderator thatyou’re going to appoint at your end or it could be an open group. And keep in mind that if it’s an open group, all of the discussions are open and searchable and people can just join the group without any type of moderation. That and what’s the value for having creating your own group after you’ve created your profile. Well, they might. It might be in an interesting way to host certain conversations around specific topics and, uh so they, you know, if you have, if you’re a large enough non-profit and maybe you are hosting even conferences around your specific topic, that is something that you can use the group for if you want to engage people in discussions, much like you might see discussions in other types of groups that people are on on linked in, but it would be very specific to the time of organization that you are in the population that you serve, and after you create the groups than you invite people to join is that how it works. Well, you can’t invite people to join. Yes. You definitely can do that and invite people who are already in your linked in world to join the group. But people are going to be able to find you once you are set up in a group on lengthen. You are now searchable as well. So i remember i was telling you about the search functionality. The groups are a way that people, you know, look for like somebody might look for a live networking group to join. Somebody might be looking for a group around this specific area that you serve. Okay, so yeah. So if your work is for the m r d d community, the mentally retarded, developmentally disabled, you might create a group around the service around dahna discussion around the needs about that for that community in your own communities, you could make it a very localized group. Yes, you can. Some groups are geographically localized as well. But you may not want to limit it to that. I mean, lengthen is a worldwide a phenomenon, if you will. So why not? Why not? Just open it right up and allow people? To tto learn more and you never know where that relationship is going to lead. Okay, um, they also have something called linked in recruiter for for job, for organizations looking for employees, how does that work? So what they’re doing is lincoln does have a recruiting solutions portion, which is a fee based portion to their service that’s kind of steep, isn’t it? Well, yeah, for some non-profits mean, what they’re saying in an article that i read is that they are starting as low as four hundred dollars a month when you could be a little steep saw non-profit but they are, you know, offering these recruiting solutions, if you will, at a discounted price for what they would offer the for-profit world, okay, and that’s, if you’re looking for employees that’s correct, if you look nufer employees, they have they have sort of three separate sections, one is called lincoln recruiter one is called jobs network Job slots and the other 1 is called career pages. Okay, let’s, talk a little bit just in a couple minutes we have left about the offerings for individuals who are in non-profits what what’s the advice that that the learning center gives for individuals. Well, you definitely want to make sure that your profile is as one hundred percent complete as possible. So you want to make sure that your profile itself is rich so that as you go out and try and make connections with people, you will be able tio look like somebody, obviously, that other people really want to connect with that you are a thought leader within your own community, if you will. And so it’s really like a resume on steroids, you know, your opportunity to really shine and stand out from other people, so why not make it that way? Using the status updates, i’s a great way to let people know sharing articles, having to do with sector that you serve if you are a speaker, it’s a great way to let people know where you’ll be speaking, especially as it relates to your subject matter area on dh, especially if you do a lot of speaking on behalf of your non-profit it will let people know where you’re speaking either virtually and webinar format or, you know, live format if people are looking by the way tony and forgot to mention earlier fremery we have just about it, we have just about a minute left. Ok, on the resource is page of my website of the prospect finder dot com i do have a downloadable maria samples top five tips for prospecting with lincoln, so if they’re interested in some general tips about lincoln for themselves on a personal level, this will help them. I think you also learn how to use some of the more advanced features, all right, thank you for sharing that resource page that’s really all the time we have that is maria, said pompel the prospect finder again, you’ll see her at the prospect finder dot com, and she’ll be joining us once a month to talk about her advice for prospect research. Maria, welcome to the show as a regular contributor and thanks for today. Thank you, tony it’s been a pleasure next week, we’re going to lead the leader’s motivating your board to fundraise. Another interview from the fund-raising day conference last june, the consultant, andy robinson and carry kruckel, whose vice president for development and communications at w n tv reveal how to move your board to be the best fundraisers they can be. And the second half of the show explaining earned income are legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan from san francisco. Breakdown what earned income is why it can be good white-collar be bad, why you need to understand it to protect your non-profit and keep it out of trouble that’s what’s coming up next week, you can keep up with with what’s coming up week after week by signing up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page. While you’re there like us and become a fan of the show, please, you can listen to tony martignetti non-profit radio on the device of your choice. Any time you like. By subscribing on itunes getting the automatic download, you’ll find that at non-profit radio dot net on twitter. You can follow me always use the hashtag if you want to talk about the show and the hashtag is non-profit radio on twitter, our creative producer is claire meyerhoff, our line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting his sam liebowitz. Our social media is by regina walton of organic social media. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. 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052: So You Wanna Start a Nonprofit & A Conversation with Darian Rodriguez Heyman – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Gene Takagi and Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group
Darian Rodriguez Heyman, former executive director of the Craigslist Foundation

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Welcome to the show, this is tony martignetti non-profit radio i’m your aptly named host. We’re always talking here about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent reminder that this is our one year anniversary month. It was last july that we started the show. This is show number fifty two one per week, minus couple holidays, but this is our fifty second show. I hope you were with me for the fifty first show last week had the ceo as fund-raising mvp mindy dietz and karen pearl, both non-profit chief executives revealed their insights on how to motivate, engage and position your ceo to be a fund-raising m v p then it was the fine art of conversion. My guest was scott barnett, director of web communications for fairfield university, and he urged you not to be afraid of analytics because tools like google analytics can help you prevent. Sorry, help you convert website visitors into online donors and help you engage younger prospects who become donors. Last week’s interviews were from our media sponsorship of the fund-raising day conference in new york city in june. This week, we’re alive, i’m having a conversation with darian rodriguez. Heman first, we’ll talk about his book non-profit management one oh one and the nationwide social media for non-profits conferences that he hosts then. So you want to start a non-profit we welcome our new legal contributors, jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, and they’ll explain the ups and downs of starting a non-profit what are the alternatives to creating a non-profit how do you get five? Oh, one c three status and what you’re getting yourself into if you go ahead and create a non-profit between the two shows between the two segments, it’ll be tony’s take two again, this is our one year anniversary got new regular contributors to with him starting today and in august, we’ll have ah, additional contributor i’ll tell you about the first show is up for a new podcast, siri’s, that i’m hosting for the chronicle of philanthropy. It’s called fund-raising fundamentals. I’ll be up on the chronicle website every month, and i’ll say a little more about that on tony’s take two there. I’ll be interviewing experts each month to help you with your fund-raising and finally on tony’s, take two, it’ll be. You know, i’m doing stand up comedy now and have been for several months. So i’ll be weaving the comedy and this show and the chronicle of philanthropy monthly podcast altogether. I can’t help it. They all blend together and influence each other more on all of that on tony’s, take two. Right now, we take a break, and then i’ll be with with back with darian rodriguez, kayman so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl are said to want to nine, six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Xero hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. Welcome back to tony martignetti non-profit radio, i guess now is darien rodriguez haman he’s calling from san francisco. Darian was executive director of the craigslist foundation from two thousand four to two thousand eight. He helped conceive the non-profit boot camps that the foundation sponsored he’s, the editor of non-profit management one o one, which is published by joe sea bass he’s, also a consultant and co founder of the social media for non-profits conferences throughout the country. And i’m very glad that darrin’s work brings him to the show today. Welcome, darien. Thanks, it’s. A pleasure non-profit management one. Oh one. What does the book add to the many books that are out there for non-profit leaders? Well, i mean, i think the when i looked out there what i start with, all the books that were in the marketplace for kind of fell into one of four categories. And so, you know, you had books that were basically textbooks. They were written by and for active combat. Yes. That book at that was focused on latto. Start in on social enterprise. There’s. Also about a career. Guys, you know how to get into sectors from there. But what didn’t kill him, you know, is that there’s no fish depict some fund-raising management, but what didn’t most back-up when that really hyre spectrum but did so from a very practical kind of practice will put into work. Daria, you don’t have to talk to you for a minute or you want a headset. Funny chance i’m not going out here, big guy. So, yeah, we’ll not only echo, but we don’t have a great we’re sort of getting you in bursts i hear about. Yeah, well, i don’t know if we can help all that. Yeah, why don’t you hang up and call right back? And i’ll do a little tap dance. In the meantime, please. Okay, so darren’s book is non-profit management one o one and it is actually he’s, actually the editor of the book. Because it is thirty three essays written by some pretty popular people in their subject areas. And interestingly, it covers areas that he just touched on. But it goes much further because it gives details of how to it’s not theoretical. Darian. You back with us? Yes. This sounds better. Yeah, thank you. I was just telling the audience there. There. Are thirty three essays in the book, but go ahead, why don’t you finish explaining what it contributes? Why why you felt this was important to write, no problem, and i’m and i’m not sure what you were before, but there’s the echo again anyway. So the point is that yeah, i hear you find and if the echo is bothering you, my suggestion is just take the phone away from your ear while you’re talking, and then when you’re done talking, put the phone back because you won’t hear my insightful questions, of course, certainly. Okay, so what i was going to stay is the book is really non-profit boot camp as a book, when i was executive director, craigslist foundation, i started a program that was very successful about non-profit boot camp, and i think the reason it was so successful is that it really covered the whole spectrum of all the different issues you need to know about in order to run an effective non-profit and it did so with a very practical focus, you know, wasn’t just enough to inspire people it’s about inspiring them action? What you going to do differently tomorrow? That’s going to make you more effective and the essays in the book yeah, the book have great detail there, you know, there’s textbooks that are buying for a day there’s career, guide’s, there’s, howto started non-profit or social enterprise, and then they’re sort of issue specific books on board governance or volunteermatch judgment or individual donor efforts or online fund-raising etcetera. And what didn’t just was something that was both comprehensive and practical, something i respect and that isn’t just kind of theoretical and conceptual, but is actually in geared for implementation, you know, it’s, a field guide for people that are professional change makers on brovey yeah, and i think a field guide or manual really is a very good way to describe because i noticed that all the essays have very practical, implementable steps and you have at the end of every essay there do’s and don’ts and there’s terrific resource section at the end of each chapter, which is the each chapter is an essay, so i i see the difference there as well. So they’re just a couple that i want to focus on, and we have just about a minute and a half before our first break. One of them is your say on non-profit career’s. Taking charge of your non-profit career happens to be chapter four in the book. Um, it points out something very interesting being comment on this. The non-profit sector is so diverse, which is a terrific attribute for it. But that makes career management complex. Darian yeah. So just can you comment on the double edged sword there of the non-profit community, it being wonderfully diverse, but no definitive career path since it is so diverse? Yeah. I mean, i think that there’s, you know, diversity in two areas because there’s lots of different causes represented within the sector. There’s also different lots, lots of organizations we’ve got over a mil and a half non-profits registered in this country alone. And so, you know, yes, that is both a good thing in a bad thing, you know, it does offer tremendous diversity, it offers lots of opportunity and you know anything you can think of his representatives enough offgrid in mental job, but at the same time, you have to be using a array of options other professionally. So i think that bill, the most important thing, kind of key to success at this fight i’m sorry dahna is really about, you know, a combination of two things. Do what you love, what’s your bet. And so really the question is, what are the what’s? The answer, those two questions, and that is and you know that russian life and that’s what we really should spend our time and energy thinking about not only on a nice body basis, but i’m an ongoing basis and the clearest that we have professionals get of. What are the causes that i most care about that make packed what are what kind of organizational environment and culture and for what kind of role want to? I want to be in a wreck, prevent upleaf or focused on development and fundrasing or, you know something on the market fighter program to look in the rear of the ant, get all of those questions, the more you’re able tto sort of, you know, put your desires out, you know, to the folks that you meet and the books that you served. My guest is darien rodriguez haman, and we’re talking about his the book that he edited non-profit management one oh one, we’re gonna take a break now, please stay with us e-giving didn’t think the shooting getting ding, ding, ding, ding cubine you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving no. Dahna good oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s, create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight. Three backs to one to seven to one eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people be better business people. Oppcoll are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com looking to meet mr and mrs wright, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your car relationship as fulfilling as possible? Then please join us, starting monday, may second at ten am for love in the morning with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Please tune in and call as we discuss dating relationship and more. Start your week off with love in the morning with marnie alison on talking alternative dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Welcome back, come with darian rodriguez kayman we’re talking about his book non-profit management one oh one and we’re focusing on one of the thirty three essays in the book titled taking charge of your non-profit career out darian the the end of that chapter has networking, do’s and don’ts, but one of the one of the best networking tips i thought came from a mihdhar, the founder of idealist who wrote your forward and he said that he listed seven or ten things that he had learned in the past fifteen years in his forward, and one of them was, too treat people the way you’d like to be treated. I mean, isn’t that great networking advice? Yeah, i mean, i think that that’s a big part of now bombing has built up, you know, not only cecil career, but the organization would idealware bigot about a million people a month going to that website tto learn about all things not-for-profits idealist dot order, but, you know, for me i’ve seen this across several careers and different sectors is did extent a zoho helpful person that is genuinely concerned with the efforts advancing the success of the o z. From the contact it comes back, you know, a million nationally, so for me and, you know, basically any time on meeting with anybody at some point in the conversation, if even if i don’t say that word, i essentially asked the question, how can i help bond? You know, whether that’s just connecting them to re sources or yourself getting infections, being among them, you know, it’s, like books, conferences or what have you, you know, i think that the important thing to remember is that each and every one of the you know, of the non-profit country has the same owner, which is the public it’s, not the border, the executive director bye definite means to be a non-profit is that we’re publicly and our boardmember zehr just ensuring a public interest that’s why they’re trustees. So, you know, we are genuinely all in this together and it’s really crucial that we support each other’s work further that every one of us on i just think that some of the best networking advice that that you can you can find, yeah, i should actually mention that tommy denoting the social media for non-profits he’s going kicking and often it dork yeah, and we’re going to talk shortly. We’re going talk shortly about that about that series of conferences throughout the country and army has been a guest on this show that s a also makes the point of talking about a sustainable career where you’re, you know, you’re with the right organization are always learning and way always hear about sustainability for non-profits but i never thought of a sustainable career. Good? Yeah, i mean, i think so, too things. Well, first of all, i do want to just kind of point out that even though it’s the most romantic cities in court but these are not really tested their chapters because what you’ll see is to read the book there’s, a common chapter format s so i created a structure so that each chapter would yet have an introduction and a conclusion. But most importantly have, you know, the main section focused on critical skills confidences as well as that sidebar, do’s and don’ts that kind of pull out this salient points than us back that you mentioned, and then there’s also a resource review read chapter so it’s not because they’re just sort of, you know wandering as all in different formats on bitten by different experts, they are of the chapters are all contributed by different experts there’s fifty experts in thirty five different after inspections. But anyway, i wanted to make that because i think it’s important for the readability of the use of looking that died the back to your point about professional sustainability, what i would say is that, you know, i think two things because i also do a lot of environmental where you environment murcott duitz and i think first off sustainability has been even the words that we want to think about much maybe dr, right? Like, how many people would be a sustainable relationship, meaning that it can just keep going it’s not enough to just be able to keep the light, be enjoying what you’re doing, and that ultimately is the key to the ability of the key to being able to continue on. And so i think that as him into earlier such a diverse sector there’s so many opportunities that, you know, challenge happy and so you’re not break the work you’re doing, whether it’s that you’re not passionate about the cause or that you don’t like the people you work with role that you’re in, then you really owe it to the cause into the community to get fashion and whether that trying to wreck himself some things with, you know, the organization you’re working with or, you know, identifying and new places to go work and on put your skills to bear at a organization, what do you know if you can really do your best work? Yeah, the the authors make the point of always reflecting on whatever dissatisfaction you might have, you might be feeling and you’re and that’s that’s exactly what you’re talking to just, you know, this introspection and thinking about whether you’re happy and if not, howto latto make that change so that you can be happier. The other chapter i’d like to talk about is is called online peer-to-peer fund-raising i think that social media is something that non-profits struggle with. In fact, we had a poll for listeners to the show, and one of the question was what’s the your non-profits relationship with social media sites like facebook, twitter, youtube linked in and no one said we get it and we’re good at it and then the answers were pretty much between. You know, we see the value but aren’t getting the most out of it, and even a small percentage, you know, we don’t see the value, but i think, importantly, nobody said we understand it, and we’re good at social media. So the chapter is online peer-to-peer fund-raising it’s all about using social networks to engage your donors, to become fundraisers and engaging sort of friends to become donors. Darrien you have a lot of experience in social networks, these requires support right non-profit can’t just put up a facebook page. Well, actually, you know the non-profit can put up a facebook page just like anybody can, but the important thing to remember is when i called the store phenomenon because what you’re you’re better off not launching a facebook presence, they’re launching one and ignoring and letting it go stale. So what you don’t want to do is have a summer intern, and this happens all the time you’ve got, you know, a young volunteer or summer intern or something like that says, hey, i’m going to set up a facebook presents they put up a page for you and they, you know, maybe do one or two updates in and they go back home or they’re done volunteering or whatever the case may be, and the organization has no plan of how it’s going to keep that page fresh and lively. And so therefore all of a sudden, after couple posted just goes stale and it sits there, and it almost reflects more poorly on the organization and if you wouldn’t have launched a presence there to begin with. So the key is that, although yes, anyone can set up a paige if you’re going to send a social media presence on twitter, facebook, youtube or else where you want to make sure that you have a plan in place with resource, is that air dependable toe actually continue to put content up there, and i should tell listeners we are live today in the if you want to call and talk to darian, you can call eight seven seven four daito for one two oh eight, seven, seven for a tow for one to zero during they talk about leveraging pompel the personal social networks and there’s something very interesting about is a quote from a an executive director who thinks of his employee’s personal use of of social networks in the workplace as the twenty first century cigarette break. What do you think of that? I love that i love that comment by nicki noble who’s, one of the two office of that chapter uh, she actually used to work at the salvation army. What about e-giving? So it wasn’t a small, you know, organization with a lot of flexibility that was hurt looking policies in a very large, well established organization. And i think, you know, this is kind of vindictive of social media in general, which is, you know, one of the concerns a lot of organizations have is lovely. What if it gets out of control what people say things we don’t want them to say, etcetera and it’s kind of the better the devil, you know, than the one you don’t type thing where, you know, control is an illusion to begin with only more so now that we live in this world of social media and so you know, people are going to be doing this anyway, the idea is instead of trying to bend folks from doing stuff they want to dio, how can you rent us that and turn it into an asset for the organization? So whether that’s creating guidelines so that they have a sense of what’s appropriate and what’s not to be posting, you know, helping seat topics, etcetera on then actually encouraging them to, you know, take a couple minutes out of their daito put up, you know, a tweet on twitter or to put a facebook, etcetera, and that can actually be a good thing, and i think that what a lot of folks don’t realize is that you know, people don’t know how many people have logged into facebook in the last month, and the answer is about seven hundred million, so that makes facebook the third largest country on the planet, and you don’t have to have a presence there, but you can’t ignore it. You can’t ignore social media and the fundamental paradigm shift that represents to this bottom ofthe world. So how can you embrace that it with radical transparency and really get ahead of the curve? The authors of chapter twenty two make it explicit that the quid pro quo in that office was that the organization would be lenient with their employees, use of social media as well. A cz long as the employees were tweeting, posting facebooking about the organizations work to their own personal networks that there was a great exchange hyre we have just a couple minutes left, so let me just remind listeners that darrin’s book is non-profit management one o one, and you’ll find that at non-profits one o one dot or ge darian also is founder of the social media for non-profits conferences these aeryn seven different cities throughout the country this year. Darian what? What is sort of asked the same question asked about your book, what is this unconference siri’s contributing to the many conferences that are already out there for? Non-profits so then i mean, i think i like seeing you see, through all of my birth, the focus is on crack tips and tools, and so what you could clear, you know, there’s three chapters in the book focused on social media one my best cantor was amazing, the we talked that one from nikki noble and sean sullivan a peer-to-peer giving and then the folks it for good contributed the online fund-raising chapter and so, you know, even though there were three chapters out of thirty, thirty five submissions that that focused on media, which is quite a lot given, you know, the the significance of the issue, what became fear is now is that people were really creating more information about this topic and kind of like fund-raising where the thing people know they need and so we got a lot of books asking us to put on educational programming around social media and in particular, strategies fundrasing marketing and advocacy on so what we did is we leveraged a lot of the network i had for my work to craigslist foundation with the non-profit boot camps and some of the author’s for the book, actually, and we got folks like that cancer and geico sake and ami dar and the folks of charity water and a lot of the leaders in the social media field, and i wouldn’t call them experts because, you know, the field is changing so quickly that if anybody pretends to be an expert, you know, they’re lying or they have a big ego because it’s, you know, it’s, impossible to be an expert world students in world practitioner so how can we share our lessons learned with our fellow non-profit leaders so that they could be more effective in this funnel and landscape which maximizing their online presence so as you mentioned, were doing nine events across seven cities? Can francisco, los angeles, seattle, chicago, new york and washington d c in atlanta and we’re heading to new york next thursday on august fourth, and then from there to los angeles on august twenty seconds on, folks could learn more social media for non-profits dartboard, so social media and number four non-profits dot org’s and you’ve. You’ve hosted two so far in san francisco and washington daring we have just about a minute left before we have to go. How did those two go? They were gonna pompel they were both totally sold down, folks absolutely loved them. We had ninety plus an approval ratings on again this focus, i’m not just inspiring people, but inspiring them to action and equipping and more effective and efficient after work they’re already trying to do has been really successful, so we’re on track new york next week, and we’re very excited about how the, how the serious has been resonating with non-profit all right, i wish you luck with it, and especially on the new york city one on august fourth, again, to remind you that there’s more information at social media, the number four non-profits dot org’s darien rodriguez heman is the editor of non-profit management, one o one and founder of these social media for non-profits conferences darien, thanks very much for being a guest. Thank you for having me been a pleasure. Thank you. We’re going to take a break, and when we return, it’ll be tony’s. Take two and then welcoming our new experts in law, gene takagi and emily chan. After that, so stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com buy-in are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Buy-in hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com in-kind welcome back to the show, as i said earlier, this is our one year anniversary month, this is show number fifty two and i want to send a special thank you to people who have been listening who are listening, whether you’re listening live or you’re listening to the podcast from itunes very grateful i’m very grateful to all the listeners we have on this show at this one year anniversary month and also to the four hundred thirty plus people who are facebook fans and they get our stream on facebook. Thankyou. So to sort of celebrate, we have new regular contributors toe ad tio scott, keg alors monthly technology for non-profits segments and jean takagi and emily chan is going to be joining me very shortly, and then we also are going to be welcoming maria simple in august she’s the prospect find er she’s, a popular speaker and consultant, and she’ll have regular prospect research advice for your non-profit her first show is august twelfth. I started last week a monthly podcast interview show for the chronicle of philanthropy. It’s called fund-raising fundamentals we kicked off with gayle perry gale has been a guest on this show. She’s, the author of fired-up fund-raising turned board passion into action. I think she was an excellent first choice, teo inaugurate that fund-raising fundamentals monthly show for the chronicle of philanthropy and details for listening and subscribing to that show are on my blogged, which is m p g a devi dot com and i’ve been doing stand up comedy, and i’m having trouble keeping that separate from my work on this show and the fund-raising fundamentals for the chronicle and my speaking and keynoting. So if you notice something a little different, it’s it’s probably my stand up comedy influencing things, so keep listening because there’s change is coming. That’s tony’s take two for friday, july twenty ninth, and i’m really pleased now to welcome jean takagi and emily chan as our new regular legal contributors, jean is a principle of neo ennio, the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco, he edits to popular non-profit law block, which you’ll find at non-profit law blawg dot com emily chan is an attorney at the non-profit and exempt organizations law group. They’re based in san francisco, and she is a principal contributor to the non-profit law block, jean and emily big. Welcome to the show. Three. Thank you so much, tony. We’re thrilled to be a part of non-profit radio. It’s called very glad to have you. So i think we’re starting with a fit topic. So you want to start a non-profit. I know your office gets calls on this subject, people who are passionate about a cause and want to do something. I want to start a non-profit and what’s the first advice that you give them in thinking about that. This is family, i think, a threshold questions that we do ask for when they call it really why? Non-profit so there are individual, better, very past about fun, but sometimes that translates into also happy that would be too private evidence as a few of the public in addition to that it’s important to think about the plan who’s going to be on the board, what is the business going to look like? And funding as well? The costs involved with the initial startup and the ongoing operations? We also like to find out what’s going on with the mission and the core activities and anticipating any kind of challenges, like a conflict of interest compensation issues and thinking about who else is going to be involved in helping to run this organization. So emily that’s a ton of stuff to be thinking about, and in your experience, do you find these air, these air, new things that people haven’t have not thought through? Is that? Is that the case? Usually i think so in many cases, because sometimes that passin for the cause overtakes the practical considerations. Additionally, i think sometimes are unaware how much the law and it’s pettus upon these problems, for example, recently with the irs, there was this issue of a list of two hundred and seventy five thousand organizations have had their past six status revoked for failing to file an annual returns with three years straight. This was a change in the law that happened in two thousand six, and many small organizations simply didn’t know about it. So kind of thinking in advance. You know what air the practical things we need to do and be aware of? What are the kind of mechanical steps involved? Well, the challenges we’re going to face, sometimes things that take a backseat to that initial passion and excitement about having starting in non-profits yeah, they were definitely ongoing compliance requirements and your example, is a great one of almost three hundred thousand non-profits that weren’t complying with filing requirements with the irs, jean, what about some alternatives? There are other things that might achieve the same objective that the person has but would be a lot less onerous for them. Absolutely, tony think one of the things one of the messages that emily brought forward was that good intentions aren’t enough there’s a lot. Of administration and fund-raising involved in starting your your own non-profits i’m sure all the listeners know the alternatives that they might want to think about first is working with an existing non-profit organization, there are nearly two million non-profits out there even after the nearly three hundred thousand that were revoked with tax income status, and there are a lot of great non-profits out there doing great work and just simply to duplicate their work, i may not be the most effective and efficient way to use charitable assets, so working with existing organizations is one way another is called fiscal sponsorship, which is similar to working with another organization, but it allows you to become a project of theirs with a right to spin off. Should you later decide to form your own five o one the three on dh that’s a great way to incubate a new non-profit project see if it works, see if he can raise funds they’re going to take care of you administrated been back office ends on dh then should you become a viable ongoing concerned, then you khun later spin off and you’ve got all the benefit of learning from that. Physical sponsorship. Arrange jean notice. Ah, jean quickly defined fiscal sponsorship because i wanted to keep himself out of jargon jail. So, congratulations. You. No, no, no sentence in jargon jail, at least not for the phrase fiscal sponsorship. We’ll see what comes up. But what types of organizations would a person approach to look for a fiscal sponsor? There’s a community foundations that offer physical sponsorship, so that might be the first place to look. But there’s, also a great website called the fiscal sponsorship directory and that’s, a national directory of fiscal sponsors all over the country, and you can choose your state location to see who’s offering physical sponsorship in your area. Another great thing to look at is the national network of physical sponsors website. They provide guidelines as to what would be on appropriate form were effective form a physical sponsorship, because while there many ways to do it right, there are also many, many ways to do it wrong. Okay, excellent resource is thank you, thank you for that gene. We had a couple of poll questions for the show, and one of them was for those thinking of starting a non-profit are you aware of the alternatives that can help you reach the same goals? And no one said yes, but i want to start my own non-profit hyre a few people said yes, and i’m considering them. Most people said no, i’m not aware of the alternative, so i think this is very worthwhile discussion that was yeah, two thirds no. Sorry, about eighty five percent of people said no, not aware of the alternatives and the alternatives gene could be just as easy as giving right giving to an organization absolutely right, buddy that’s a great point that he simply wanted to contribute at your funds and volunteering another organization that may be the best thing to do instead of farming your own non-profit and having all of the administrative and filing obligations that go along with that. But of course we’re talking about ego to write. If you don’t have your own organization and you become sponsored by another, maybe a community foundation, then you have to sort of play by their rules and for some people, maybe that just doesn’t work. You get sort of ego lorts issues at all in the in these conversations, absolutely, and emily may want to jump in, but definitely there a lot of people who want to form non-profits that really have good intentions about the public, but almost as important as those good intentions is their own intentions of creating a job for themselves or creating opportunities for their family, or maybe creating opportunities for related business? No, andi okay, so we’re talking about jobs for themselves and their families. Now. Now we get into those things emily talked about, like conflicts of interest and excessive compensation rules. What about the donor advised fund has a way of as another one of the alternatives as a way of giving to a charity that does work very similar to what you want to do. How does it donor-centric for that? They would really like emily. Emily, could you speak a little louder, please? Yeah. It’s much, but yeah. Please. That’s better. Thanks. So, what donorsearch vice fund that the individual would i talked to? Was sponsoring organizations such as the public charity or a private foundation on dh set up this fund that is going to be designated by their own name and they have advisory privileges so they can advise the organization how they would like to see those funds distributed. It would be the organization, depression, how they ultimately do that. Generally, this relationship works well, because organizations aren’t goingto have individuals. These donors advice sons if they don’t take those at recommendations and advisory privileges with some weight. Okay, so, again, there’s a little ego issue there because the charity gets the final word. But in most cases, charity is wants to work with the donor, right? Right. And the donor gets to have a little bit of their egos stroked as well, because they feel like they have more say and input after what happened to these funds as opposed tio, you’re normal donations, that organization can decide where they put it within their programs and in furthering their exempt labbate and gina want to go back to something that you said just in a minute we have before a break, working with an existing charity. I mean, you might be able to just achieve what you’d like to do by volunteering. No, absolutely, if you if you have a passion about the mission, you could just volunteer for the organization. If you have a leadership goal in mind, you may be able to offer to that organization that you can raise some funds and bring it into launch a program within that organization, and they may be very happy to let you do that. If you’ve got a little bit of a working relationship with them, we’re going to take a break now with jean takagi and emily chan when we returned. You know, it’s? Not that we’re tryingto talk you out of starting a nonprofit, but jean and emily just want you to be fully informed. So when we return, we’ll talk about what the process of creating a non-profit is all about. So please stay with us. E-giving didn’t think dick tooting getting thinking thing. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. E-giving things. Good. Looking to meet mr and mrs wright, but still haven’t found the one i want to make your car relationship as fulfilling as possible. Then please join us, starting monday, may second at ten am for love in the morning with morning alison as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Please tune in and call as we discuss dating relationship and more. Start your week off with love in the morning with marnie alison on talking alternative dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting do you want to enhance your company’s web presence with an eye catching and unique website design? Would you like to incorporate professional video marketing mobile marketing into your organization’s marketing campaign? Mission one on one media offers a unique marketing experience that will set you apart from your competitors, magnify your brand exposure and enhance your current marketing efforts. Their services include video production and editing, web design, graphic design photography, social media management and now introducing mobile marketing. Their motto is. We do whatever it takes to make our clients happy. Contact them today. Admission one one media dot com talking. Bonem lively conversation. Top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Yeah, welcome back on with jean takagi and emily chan, both of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. So, after that last segment now, hopefully, if we issued the same poll, are you aware of alternatives that can help you reach the same goal as your desire to create a non-profit? Hopefully, some of you would now say, yes, i am aware, emily, what about the process for starting a non-profit somebody decides the alternatives don’t really suit them. They do want to go ahead despite all your counseling, what is the first step to creating a non-profit? Emily, i won’t have to be in there. Increase on. Emily, can i ask you to please remember to speak? Speak a little louder. Sorry. I’m getting a little bit of an echo on buy-in trying. Teo pulled the head that strategically here? Yeah, yeah, we hear you. Ok. Ok, great. So there are quite a few mechanical steps involved. And this is assuming that the individual has already thought about those important discussion points that we raised in the beginning. So these kind of steps can include taking out the name of the corporation, filing the articles. Of incorporation if it’s incorporating the state obtaining a federal employer identification numbers, then you’ll want to appoint the board of directors. Drop the by-laws important policies, such a conflict of interest policy. I have your first board meeting to adopt those government documents, then you may need to file with state, especially if this is a public charity for your trip napor stations file any other state filings, like a statement of information, then we’re going to move over now the federal level of applying for tax exemption and in california after that, you can attach your determination letter from the irs if you obtain it and file for your state tax exemption, so this generally can be described in ten steps just did. But, you know, there’s a lot of thinking that goes along the way and it’s a process that you don’t really want to start unless you’ve thought it through because you may get your tax exempt application and realize, oh, no, our mission doesn’t really fit with the exempt purpose that we’re applying for. So they are mechanical steps, but they still need to be thought about as you go through them. Okay, so that’s a ton of stuff, let’s, let’s, break it down a bit. So there were state requirements, and there were also some federal requirements. So starting with the state that i mean, you have tio incorporate in a state, right you’re you’re you’re not-for-profits corporation offgrid yes, and so there’s everything that goes along with being a corporation, those things that you mentioned, you have to appoint the board, et cetera back-up that’s all important in in order to avoid things like potential personal liability of the members if they operate is an unincorporated association, which is a possibility on dh, usually a practical possibility if it’s a very small non-profit going to operate for a limited period of time for most non-profits that tony, i think it’s important to think about inc if they’re going to be an ongoing okay, let’s, you’re treading very close to jog in jail with unincorporated association. What does that mean? It basically means you’re running as a group without filing any articles of incorporation with the secretary of state of your state. So what? What that usually means is just like in the for-profit world, tony, if you start a business and you don’t incorporate their operating is a sole proprietor or possibly the partnership trying to avoid jargon jail again, but it’s running without the formal legal entity around it to protect you from personal liability of the members and of the director’s. Yeah, and that’s and that’s. Really? Your concern is that there is the potential for personal liability if something goes wrong our what kinds of things could somebody end up being personally liable for if they’re if they’re not incorporated and they’re working as a association? Sure, what went one of the big things that you could be a lot before you hold an event and somebody gets hurt? It’s your event there is no formal entity to do like a corporation they may just decide to do. All of the members are all of the directors of that unincorporated association. In many states, they’re not protected against those lawsuits and they’ll have to defend them with their their own personal funds. Emily let’s, let’s, go back now. So we talk about the state requirements, you know, incorporating and everything that goes along with inc like you mentioned. But then there’s there’s an irs requirement to get that tax exempt. Status that five o one c three on dh we pulled the listeners and about half we’re not aware a little more than half we’re not aware of how to get five o one c three status. So first emily, why don’t you tell us what that is? Why it’s important? A five one seat status refers to dissection in the internal revenue code that gives the tax exemption for organizations public charities in order to get that discriminate. Then the organizations to file was called a form ten twenty three on dh this can be quite scary for individuals to look at it it’s quite long and asked for a lot of information is going to ask for a financial projections, the contemplated activities of the organisation, any kind of relationship that would trigger these conflict of interest issues there, you know, it’s, excessive compensation issues um, and then just general information about the organization wants an organization submits that ten, twenty three applications, the irs can take quite a while to get a determination back. It may be about three to four months assuming that the irs does not have additional questions sometimes if the application doesn’t really answer the questions fully or seems to raise some concerns that show that maybe this organization doesn’t really fit with five, twenty three, they may come back with more questions, and then you’re going to end up in the back and forth for her, who knows how long until they give you a determination of either obtaining tax exempt status or being rejected. And one of the big advantages to getting that recognition is that donors to your organization will earn a charitable income tax deduction when they give to your organization and they and they won’t before you have that status, right? Can you repeat that? Just that one of the big advantages of getting that five o one c three statuses donors earn a charitable income tax deduction? No, and they don’t have that if you’re not five o one c three recognized, right? Yeah. And, you know, a big area of your expertise, you know, that’s important organizations to realize, too in that pending time, val, the application has been filed, but they haven’t yet heard from the irs that they don’t actually have five o one c three status, even though if you file it within twenty seven months of being formed. It will go back to your formation, but until you know you can’t go out there and say, i’m a five, twenty three organization because you really don’t know yet. Excellent, we have to leave it there. Jean takagi is principal of neo, the non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco, and he edits that very popular blawg non-profit law blogger and emily chan is an attorney. Neo-sage she’s, principal contributor to the law block. Emily jean. Welcome to the show. Look forward, having you back next month, thanks so much for being on. Next week, it’s wild woman and fund-raising consultant mazarene treyz she joins me from texas to talk about her book, the wild woman’s guide to fund-raising i think we’re gonna have some fun with that. You can keep up with what’s coming up mazarene and everybody after her. By signing up for our insider email alerts on the facebook page, you go to facebook and then the name of this show, and while you’re there, click like become fan of the show, get our stream teo of information from facebook. You can always listen from itunes and subscribe at itunes so that you can listen anytime on your computer or your tablet or your smartphone. Our itunes page you’ll find at non-profit radio dot net. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff line producer and the owner of talking alternative broadcasting is sam liebowitz, and our social media is by the expert regina walton of organic social media. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio. 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