This week:
Relationship Fundraising
There’s a lot of conventional wisdom about how to be donor centric and build strong relationships. But what does social psychology research tell us about how to achieve these and what your donors expect from you at each relationship stage? Adrian Sargeant is chief executive of The Philanthropy Centre. (Originally aired March 18, 2016)
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guest this week:
Adrian Sargeant, professor at Plymouth University & director of the Centre for Sustainable Philanthropy.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
Jason Shim, associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at Pathways to Education Canada, and Mark Hallman, president of Evergreen Digital Marketing.
Also, Karin Hedetniemi and Jayme Nelson from the Inside Education Society of Alberta. Karin is director of business and human resources and Jayme is an educator.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 59:22 — 54.6MB) | Embed
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Tony’s guests this week:
Jason Shim, associate director of digital strategy and alumni relations at Pathways to Education Canada, and Mark Hallman, president of Evergreen Digital Marketing.
Also, Karin Hedetniemi and Jayme Nelson from the Inside Education Society of Alberta. Karin is director of business and human resources and Jayme is an educator.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
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Tony’s guests this week:
Professor John List, chair of the economics department and founder of the Science of Philanthropy Initiative at University of Chicago.
Also, Chuck Longfield, chief scientist at Blackbaud.
There’s more at tonymartignetti.com
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 56:49 — 52.3MB) | Embed
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Tony’s guests this week:
Professor John List, chair of the Economics Department and founder of the Science of Philanthropy Initiative at University of Chicago
Chuck Longfield, chief scientist at Blackbaud
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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It’s tony martignetti non-profit radio hello and welcome to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. The campaign for five hundred stars ongoing. We’ve more than doubled the number of ratings on itunes. I thank you very much for that the campaign is ongoing. We want to get one hundred ratings on itunes, so please go to non-profit radio dot net and then click view in itunes and raped the show. Thank you very much for how far we’ve come. Oh, i very much hope that you were with me last week. I couldn’t stand to learn that you had missed aye, aye and you ex information architecture er and the user experience. Lacey kruger lied information architect that blackbaud and misty maclachlan, the company’s principal user experience consultant, had lots of ideas to help you design your online properties for success so that visitors return and supporters stay engaged and tech trends. Scott koegler, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, told us how he sees non-profits using computing to fulfill unique needs engaged through the social networks, customize their own computing and what he expects to see more. Of in the future this week lead and matching gif ts in your campaign professor john list from the university of chicago chairs the economics department and founded the science of philanthropy initiative or spy. No longer must fundraisers rely on tradition and conventional wisdom in campaign planning, you have rigorous science to guide you around lead and matching gif ts how big should lead gift be to impact e-giving well, a one to one match raise as much as a three to one match. You’ll be glad that you’re sing and many matching corporate gif ts chuck longfield, chief scientist at blackbaud, has lots of simple ways to increase your matching gif ts from corporations tap into the annual one point four billion dollars from twenty thousand companies. Did you know that volunteer hours are also dollar matched by many companies? We’ll start with the sector benchmarking and go from there, and that interview was pre recorded. It blackbaud twenty twelve bb con conference. My pleasure now to welcome john list he’s the homer jay livingston, professor and chairman in the department of economics at the university of chicago. He’s expert in the science of philanthropy and his new project the science of philanthropy initiative spy is funded by the john templeton foundation. It’s, a research and outrage venture and we’re going to talk about his research and spies, outreach to charities and how you can participate. Professor john list. Welcome to the show. Thanks, tony. Thanks for having me. It’s. A pleasure to have you from chicago. You getting snow out there? The way we’re getting inundated died here in new york. Not too much, but it is pretty icy here. So it is. It is difficult driving conditions here, tony. Okay, well, i’m glad you’re safe in your little office. I was, you know, i like to picture academics. You know, my major was economics that i was an economics major at carnegie mellon university. That’s why you’re so smart now, that’s. Because i was rejected by the university of chicago. I hope you were not share in nineteen. I would have been applying in nineteen. Eighty. I hope you were not chair in nineteen. Eighty. I was not. I was actually in eighth grade in nineteen. Eighty rock. Okay, well, you’re a little younger than me, but you don’t look it from your photo now, okay? Let’s, talk about spy. This work is very interesting. Like i said in the in the lead in no longer must charities rely on conventional wisdom? Let’s, start with your methodology around campaigns. What are you doing? I think that right? I think when i first i became interested in this area, tony what i what i found was that you had a bunch of really good people, a bunch of really good hearted people who were basing their decisions. Mohr on anecdotes and gut feelings. Right, then the actual scientific method. So when i say scientific method, what i mean by that is basic a basic experiment. So in that basic experiment, it’s always important to have a control group. Because then when you have ah, treatment groups such as some people might get a one to one match. You want to always compare that to a group of people who did not receive a match? Okay, that’s what? I call a program that’s the control group. Watch out. I have george in jail on tony martignetti non-profit radio. You you scared it closely. But you then you defined control. You could define control group. So you’re clear, but watch out. Okay, all right, so so we have. This is this is the scientific method. We have a control group in a test group or treatment group. And how have you been applying this to campaigns beyond matching? Sure, sure. So when i first started, i was presented with a problem at the university of central florida. So at the university of central florida, the deen challenged me to start a center to do research in environmental policy and what the dean said it is. John, you are responsible for raising money to start the research center. So of course, the first question becomes different in need of resource is for a capital project. What are the first steps i should take? And the fundraisers will tell you you should secure a fraction of the money privately before going public. So, as an economist, i asked a simple question. Well, what is the optimal fraction? What i essentially found? Wass ah, bunch of anecdotes about what that fraction should be. For example, the fund-raising school recommended that forty to fifty percent of the goal should be pledged before the public campaign begins. Other hand books recommended figures between twenty and fifty percent. Right around the same time the university of wisconsin was building there. Cole center, which houses the basketball team in the hockey team. And what they had done in the quiet period is they’re gone out. And gathered twenty seven of their seventy two million dollar goal. So as you can see that the evidence is sort of scattered all over the place. And i simply asked, how do we know which fraction is correct? And very few people had actual scientific evidence to back up their claims that a certain fraction was actually the correct fraction to gather in private before going public. Okay, so he looks just exactly is i didn’t set up a direct mail solicitation, and i split ten thousand households into different buckets or different groups. In one group i advertised, we’re looking for money for our center for environmental policy analysis here at the university of central florida, and we already have ten percent of what we need. We already have that from an anonymous donor. If you know, another group of hall souls received a different kind of letter. It was identical in all respects, except it said that we already have thirty three percent of the of the goal. And another group received a letter that said, we have already saved sixty seven percent of the goal and then the fourth group, which is our control group received the letter. But there was no mention that we have received up front money. Okay? And so this was to our knowledge to your knowledge, is was the first scientific method rigorous test at least that you could find of different match is having an impact on thie outcome of giving? And what did you find that’s? Exactly, right. So what we found is that over that range from ten to sixty seven percent that the more you advertising seed money, the more gifts that you will receive. So in this particular study, what we’ve found was that most people gave and those who were going to give actually gave mohr so the more seed money you have, you wouldn’t do it more people to give and those people who would have given anyways they actually give mme or when you have ah hyre level of seed money. Okay, interesting. And so you did this work. University of central florida. You were then stolen away, recruited away to the university of chicago for more sophisticated work. E well, i don’t know about that, but, you know, there were a few stops in between. I ended up going to the university of arizona, and then from there, i went to the university of maryland and well, i was at the university of maryland. I spent a year working in the white house at the council of economic advisers, and then after that, i came here to chicago to get smarter. Okay, well, you work your way north from from two very south locations. Work your way to the northeast and then the frigid chicago area. We’re going to take a break right now, john, and when we come back, we’ll talk about that more sophisticated work and how it’ll applies to charitable giving. Stay with us. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you confused about which died it’s, right for you? Are you tired of being tired? How about improving your energy strength and appearance? Hi, i’m ricky keck, holistic nutrition and wellness consultant. If you have answered yes to any of my questions, contact me now at n y integrated health dot com, or it’s, six for six to eight, five, eight five eight eight initiate change and transform your life. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public lasts or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s, the hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back. We’re talking with professor john list from university of chicago about leading matching gift in your campaign. I have to send live listener love somebody, somebody in chicago was listening. John, you’ll be gratified to know that there’s a listener in chicago and it was very good. New bern, north carolina, bethlehem, pennsylvania and washington, new jersey live listener love going out also to taipei, taiwan and shang xero change china. I don’t know how to pronounce it. C h a n g s h z chung’s. We’re doing the best we can here. China s o tio taiwan and china ni hao. All right, professor john. Now that you’re at the university, your work has expanded and you’re doing work now with some pretty large charities. Want you describe that that’s, right? That’s. Right, tony, um, you know, after you established that upfront money is important, you can ask yourself, well, should we be using that money is simply an announcement like i did at the university of central florida? Or should we be using it as an announcement and is a match? So, for example, you could say an anonymous daughter just gave us one million. Dollars now we will use those funds is a match. So, for example, for every dollar that you give, we will match with a dollar of this donors. So we ended up taking that idea, which, of course, is a common idea in fund-raising to a simple, direct mail experiment with the sierra club of canada and what we were interested in there it was simply testing the idea of announcing money, which i did at the university of central florida campaign versus announcing money and using it as a one to one match. And what we found there again, we’re we’re sending out tens of thousands of letters two households essentially using the normal ask that the sierra club uses. But here some households receive a letter that has, for example, no mention of this upfront money and that’s, a control group. Other households received the match other households received. We have some money. But there is no match campaign. And what we found there is that again. Seed money works quite well. What i mean by seed money is that if you have up front money that’s very effective in generating people to give but the interesting thing there is that the one to one match worked about as well. Is the seed money treatment in both of them worked much better than the control group. Okay. Okay. Now, the one to one match. This is with the sierra club of canada. The one to one match, you said worked a little bit better than the leadership gift announcement. Actually, they were the leadership gift announcement. Worked slightly better, but they were okay, but they were statistically the same. If you look at them throughout statistical tests, they were about the same. Okay. Okay. And that was a one to one match. Now, what do we know about the what have you learned about the differences between different levels of match? One, two. One, two, one. One, two, two, etcetera. Exactly. You know, tony that’s a great question. Because that’s that’s clearly the next step in the research agenda. And when you look a man, i should have been a profess xero economics. I did well to carnegie mellon. I have no shot having gone there so way. Always have a spot here for you at the university. Thank you, thie that you know, you’re not the dean. Just need department chair. Well, no, i’m just a lowly department there. Department chair, while i’ll use you for my letter of recommendation. All right? Absolutely. Okay. What do we know about how these different levels of matching compare? Yeah. That’s a good question, because you know, the anecdotal evidence out in the field is that obviously a three to one match should work. A lot better than a one to one match in a three to one match, of course is, for every dollar that you give, the charity will match with three dollars and the one the one every dollar you give the charity will match with a dollar. But of course, when we went out to the literature, we could not find any scientific evidence that indeed a three. The one match was better than a one to one mad again. Just a lot of conventional wisdom. And this is the tradition. Absolutely. Okay, absolutely. Which, of course, drives an economics professor. Not what we don’t have any data or scientific evidence to back up that finding. All right. Here’s. Where we? Yeah, here’s. Where we part company c i should probably just settle for an honorary. Ph d from the university because it hasn’t driven me as nuts as it has you, but i’m glad it has go ahead. Absolutely so this time we teamed with the national liberal non-profit in the us, which does political and socially oriented work, and i have to be careful because i cannot mention the non-profit due to a non disclosure agreement that we made with them. But essentially the background is that every month they send about fifty thousand letters, too. They’re regular donors, and they asked them for money and essentially what we did is, again we put the households into different buckets or different groups. In one bucket, you had households that received a one to one match offer. In another group, households received a two to one match offer, and in a third group, households received a three to one match offer. And then, of course, we compare that to a fourth group, which is the control group, right? No match, no match at all, which they received, you know, a typical letter that says we’re looking for money to help the cause, so to speak. Okay, so what we found here is that if you just look at the data amongst those households that received a match offer versus those households that did not receive any match offer. You raise about nineteen percent more money in those matching treatments compared to the control group. Excellent. And the interesting part is that effect occurs entirely on what an economist calls the extensive margin. And what i mean by that is that nineteen percent occurs entirely because the response rate went up about twenty two percent. So more people decided to give. When there was a match available, they still gave the same amount per person. But more people give when there’s a match available. So so the effect is not because people are giving mohr, but because more people are giving exactly. And this. And then the level of giving doesn’t change among among all the people who give versus the control group that’s, right? So if you were going to give anyway, on average, you give the same amount. But you just get twenty two percent more people to give some money rather than give nothing. And is that impacted at all by the level of the match? Exactly. So the other finding that we that just jumps out at you in the data. Is that the three to one, the two to one and the one to one match groups perform identically. Are you sure about that, e? I mean, nasa has made mathematical errors, and they forgot to convert you forgot to convert fahrenheit into celsius or something like that. Are you sure about this? I mean, it happened, you know, if you hadn’t. If you haven’t double check your math, i’ll understand. But i’ll tell you what. I have double and triple checked my math, and i’ve also gone to other charities, and i’ve done the same kind of experiment with amnesty international with liar, a beat, a children’s hospital. And what we find over and over again is that having match dollars, really? That really matters a lot. But the size of the match does not matter. Ah, that’s. Very interesting. Very interesting. And contrary to all that conventional wisdom that we were talking about. Okay, so the one to one match pulls well, has has the same effect as the three to one match. Okay, if you’re sure okay, what about the one, two two or one two, three. Where? A dollar gets fifty cents or something like that or those types of matches exactly that’s very good questions. So we have now extended that original experiment all the way down on the other side, so we’ve looked at one to two and we have looked at one, two, three and again one, two, three and one, two, two are the same as one to one. So at least over the range that we’ve experimented with one toe, one all the way down to one, two, three and all the way up to three, two, one we find the same result that people give the same amount of money. Now, i think we need to take care here, because if we would go all the way, say, for example, to one to one hundred, if you give one hundred dollars, we will match with one dollars, i’m pretty sure that would not work very well, although that’s a gut feeling, so i i i i don’t want to break my own rules, right? Because that’s, just my intuition that suggests if you go that far, you can actually hurt your capital campaign, but i don’t have any empirical evidence for that okay, john list is the homer jay livingston, professor of economics and chair of the department at the university of chicago, and we’re talking mostly about his work through the science of philanthropy initiative at the university spy, which you’ll find at s p i hub dot or ge, and we’re going to talk about working with it’s by very shortly. All right, john. So now we don’t know one, two one, two a one hundred match that would i guess you would expect that to be different than a one to one match, but we don’t have any evidence of that, right? That’s correct. Okay. Do you plan to test a match that that that’s that largest to see if there where where the boundary is that the one to one effect breaks down? You know, i would love to. And just exactly as you mentioned. Always looking for partners to try ideas such as that one. And i think that’s exactly. The next step that the research will take is is where does the match the effectiveness of the match actually break down? I think it’s a great research question and one in which i do wish. To explore. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Now you have some evidence of how this works on ah, dahna ah, warm list versus a cold list. Why don’t you describe those and what? That what those outcomes are exactly. Exactly. So when we think about warm list, what? The way that we differentiate people in data sets is a warm list is a person who has given to our cause within the last three years. So if you’ve given ten dollars or ten million dollars within the last three years, we label you is a warm list person. Ah, cold list person is a person who has not given to our cause in the last three years. So that just gives you some definitions of the way that we think about cold lest versus warm list. Now you’re exactly right to pinpoint that feature in our data. What we find is that the cold less people are more influenced by the match, then the warm list people it’s. Not that the wordless people are not influenced by the match because indeed, warm, less people are influenced by the match. They’re just not as influenced as much. Is the coldness, people? Okay, okay. And they’re influenced in what way the proportion of giving is greater, right? Because we’re talking about more people giving not people giving mohr money exactly it’s exactly proportion all about the number ofthe coldness people who give above and beyond the number of coldness people who give in the control group. Okay, okay. Interesting. All right, let’s, move to. Well, let’s, let’s spend a little time talking about the partnership. We have more to talk about your research in terms of leadership gifts. We’ve just been talking about matching gifts, but you’re you’re actively looking for charity partners to work with, right? Absolutely. So, you know, we’ve just we’ve just begun. We’ve just started spy hub dot org’s is you mentioned earlier, and even though my own research, i’ve been doing work in philanthropy now, since nineteen ninety eight, we have just received a very generous grant from the john templeton foundation that allows us more opportunities and more time toe work with those charities out there who are interested in partnering with us. Remember, you’re gonna have to put up with our craziness because we’re academics. We have crazy ideas. Yeah, you should see your listeners if you go to my block. You’ll see you’ll see john’s, head shot and there’s all kinds of mathematical equations behind him on a blot on a blackboard. There’s, not even a whiteboard. I was surprised i would have thought for sure university chicago would be using whiteboard technology, but not in your classroom anyway. Unless it’s an old photo it’s it’s chalk on a blackboard and you have the and use lambda in your and some of your equations that would know lambda always scared me as i was as i was doing economics, studying econometrics and regression analysis. I don’t know why just lambda lambda just seems intimidating to me lambda i don’t know a couple of lamb does behind so yeah, i looked at your picture way linda brings up everybody still old school here. I’m sitting in my office right now and i actually have a blackboard in my office which has lambda written on it. You do see that’s? Why i’m getting a bad vibe going toe. I want to bring out the love cristal here. Couple of a couple of shows ago someone held the crystal court’s love krystal i’m getting a bad vibe till and it’s a lambda thing for me? I don’t know why i just since my econometrics days, lam does giving me trouble. All right, we have just a couple minutes before break. So let’s, keep talking about eso charities. Should charities that are interested in putting up with you go to s p i hub dot or gq? Or how do they get information? That’s, right? I think that’s a good spot to go to or, you know, you can actually google me if you google john list. You know, i promise you i’m not the mass murder. That guy will come up first. I’ll probably come up second. Zoho is there one of those? Okay, yeah. You know, john list is a very unfortunate name, but, you know, my email address you can email me here at the university of chicago, it’s jade list at u chicago daddy to you. And, you know, we can begin discussions about forming a partnership. Our bottom line is this we don’t charge for what we do, but what we expect is that we can use the data that is generated from the cause you know, from the telephone or the direct mailer or the or the banquet that we could actually use those data when we write academic papers or we do radio interviews or television interviews. And what have you that that’s, really, the only cost is that you allow us to work with the data and pushed the knowledge frontier in this particular sector, because that’s, really what we’re in it for, we’re not in it to make money ourselves way really want the sector to undergo a scientific revolution, because we believe so strongly in this sector. Okay, on dh, this can be done anonymously, right? The charity name doesn’t have to be in your research. Okay, absolutely. All right, we’re gonna take a break, and professor list stays with me, and i hope that you do, too. Co-branding dick, dick tooting. Good ending. Ding ding. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. E-giving you get it, are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m lost him a role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Hi, i’m bill mcginley, president, ceo of the association for healthcare philanthropy. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I got more live listener love of going abroad. Taipei, taiwan. Ni hao, seoul, korea. Anya haserot, valencia, spain. Ola and who? Nador a romania i don’t know how to say hello, but i’ve been in your neighborhood. I’ve been to moldova. I spent a week in moldova a few years ago. Okay? Professor list way told charities how they can get involved with you. Let’s, move to your research on leadership gif ts what was that about? So? So what the leadership gives essentially are about is that if you receive upfront money, there are many different ways to use that up front money. You can simply announce it is we did at the university of central florida. You can use it as a matching gift. Is we just talked about, or you can use it, for example, for small gifts. You know, small daughter gets teo to give to people who actually give to your cause. Or you can actually use it for lottery prizes. If you wanted teo to link people’s contributions to a possibility, tto win a large prize. Those are other ways in which you could use upfront money as well. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, go. Ahead what we’ve been finding is that if you actually link the donation to ah probability of winning a prize that you khun considerably increased giving rates, in fact, is much is one hundred percent, and most of that result is actually on again the extensive margin more people are giving when they have a chance to win a prize. Okay, um, and how does how does this type of e-giving compare with the one to one match? You know, this type of giving is in the range of a one to one match. So if your ah, if you’re thinking about going out and using up front money, what we’ve been finding is that a one to one match works about as well is ah, lottery where you where you give away a large prize, say a thousand dollars to one of the donors it works about equally as well as a one to one match. Okay. Okay. Um, these are too different types of inducements. This is interesting. Is that the, uh one to one match is conditional on the person giving and the the other is not it’s it’s. Definitely. What? Why that? What is that difference? Mean, exactly. So what we’ve been finding you pinpointed a very important fact in our data is that on the one case one to one match, those dollars essentially are conditional in the sense that you have to give one hundred dollars to have the anonymous donor gives one hundred dollars. We’re a leadership gift is essentially the the lead daughter giving money that’s unconditional. So what we’ve been finding is that that unconditional gift tends to be slightly stronger, a slightly stronger signal to donors. Then the match gift is, and we think that’s because the signaling value off that gift and what i mean by signaling value is this anonymous donor probably knows mohr information about the charitable cause than i do. So if i see her giving a large amount of money for the cause, that sends a signal to me that charitable dr is a good one. It’s a good signal of charitable quality, that’s what our data points to time in and time again, that the leadership, a gift is a very important signal of the quality of the charitable dr. Okay, okay. Let’s, i want to talk a little about what you’re what you’re doing next. You have some interesting research that you’re working on your next project, the one one and done right? Yeah, right, please. Yeah, that’s good that you bring that up because this is a project that right now has a lot of my attention, and this is a project that we’ve worked in partnership with smile train so smile train is a wonderful organization that takes care of cleft palates of of the youth overseas, so they send doctors overseas to take care of this very dreaded birth defect. And with them, we’ve developed a program which we call once and done and essentially it’s a direct mail solicitation. But within that direct mail solicitation, it says, give now and we will never bother you again if you check this box. John, we have just a minute left. Give, tell us briefly what? What? The impact of that is sure what we’ve been finding we’ve sent to about eight hundred thousand people in what we’ve been fighting is that if you use once and done, you can raise about three times more money, then you can with the control group onley thirty four percent of the people will actually check the box. And when you look into the future, you don’t actually lose donors. You raised just as much money in the future. Is you raised from the control group in the once and done group. So, in essence, you raised about three times more money in the initial mailer, and it does not compromise future fundez from those people. Okay, we have to sort of leave it there. I think you should call it one and done, though not once. And done. You’re missing the good alliteration opportunity wanted done. No one gift. And you’re done. Remember how many economists not an english professor? Would you go for the goal for the liberation? I don’t have more punch one and done. I think you should rename it one and done. But obviously, the impact on the outcome is what’s. More important, jonathan. Thank you very much for being a guest. Thank you very much. I look forward to talking to you soon. Tony. My pleasure. John list, chair of the department of economics at the university of chicago. You confined him at s p i hub. Dot org’s, spy hub dot or ge and he and i will be in touch to schedule the date for my honorary ph d ceremony. I have to do tony’s take too, because i want to keep john on, so i put that off a little bit it’s the five hundred stars campaign very, very simple. We’re trying to get one hundred five star ratings for the show it’s already having an impact, the show is trending it’s in category called what’s hot in non-profits on itunes and also in government and organizations on itunes s o you’re having an impact, i’d be grateful if we could just get to the get even more get to that goal of one hundred five star ratings. We start at non-profit radio dot net and then click view in itunes and that’s all explained more on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and that is the tonys. Take two for friday, february eighth, which is the sixth show of this year now i have for you ah pre recorded interview from bb khan twenty twelve last year. Chuck longfield, the chief scientist there at blackbaud and our subject was matching corporate gif. Ts hears that. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of b become twenty twelve blackbaud conference where outside washington dc gaylord convention center with me now is chuck longfield trick is chief scientist blackbaud chuck. Welcome. Thank you. Nice to be here. It’s a pleasure to have things very much. Your session topic yesterday was don’t leave money on the table. Ten proven practices for success with magic gift let’s start with a very basic why shoot a charity spent time with matching gives his reforms there’s compliance is going to be back and forth with companies. Why is this worth it? I’m currently about a little over a billion dollars a year is given by corporations to matching gets about one point four billion dollars it’s about twenty thousand companies in america that will match their gifts, about half of the fortune five hundred have matching gifts, they’ll match donations, and a number of them will also match volunteer hours. So, for example, if you volunteer at a non-profit you work for microsoft, they’ll actually pay you fourteen dollars for every hour that you don’t pay the non-profit fourteen dollars for every hour they volunteer and some companies if you give them a thousand dollar donation or one hundred dollar donation, they’ll match it. Oneto one, two to one, three to one. So it’s in a sense, it’s kind of newfound money caused fund-raising isn’t all that high. There are some compliance issues and paper forms and such but that’s getting easier. So in general there’s there’s a big opportunity and i’ve done a lot of research that has shown that most companies are not doing nearly enough in this area and they could be substantially increasing their revenue several percent if they pursue some of these practices. How recent is the bee in person volunteer time it’s been a mean it’s been in place for a while now. It’s a relatively new thing but it’s it’s been in place for a while. Okay, so it’s worth the small administrative time that’s right in the past. The way the process worked was the employee was encouraged to go to the hr department. More recently go to the internet at their company. Get a form. Fill out the form. Send it into the non-profit. Non-profit indicates that they indeed got the donation. They send it on to the company. The company over time has been outsourcing this to other companies to do the paperwork. So it’s actually been someone burned some authority, but the internet and a lot of links now have made this easier. So most employees now just encouraged to go to a a site. They could indicate that they made this donation and the paperwork is all done. So, for example, there’s, a company in new jersey that j k group that works with many of the fortune five hundred companies, and they have a website called easy match and you use easy match the processing for the nonprofit for the employees, for the corporations made much easier. Okay, e-giving listen, is the name of that company one more time? The company actually is kind of in the background, but their website is called easy match zizi match daikon. No, i’m sorry. E a s y m a c h dot com. Okay, hyre so what was what was the first piece of advice that you shared on building this magic gift? So one of the pieces of advice which actually wasn’t the first, but i’ll start with it is the benchmark with against your peers. So in different organizations, latto have different resources, there are organizations that have probably like yours that that i realize a greater percentage of matching gift dollars, and so when you’re actually looking at the opportunity. So for example, if your university, there were many universities, now that a matching five, six, seven percent of the total revenue with matching gifts. So if you’re doing one percent in your university, you’d say, well, how are they getting five percent to finally get one percent? If you are a public broadcasting station, good public broadcasting stations, air getting three or four percent, most public broadcasting stations are getting well under one percent so they can look at their numbers and they say, well, why am i not getting three or four percent? So it’s a good way by benchmark king first to quantify the game that you might realize really, it does vary considerably. Sounds like across different charitable vision. Well, it doesn’t, and in fact, the public broadcasting stations could probably achieve five, six, seven percent that they would need to actually start doing some of the things that comes more easily to a university, like knowing where their people work so university can collect that more easily. Where’s, the public broadcasting station might have more trouble finding out that you work for ibm, but but still the real issue is that if you know how well some of your better peers are performing, you can actually estimate what how much money is at stake for you. And then the actual practices are relatively easy. I joked in my presentation that there’s a surgeon, a tool go on, they wrote a great book called checklist manifesto, and he pointed out in the book that if doctors washed their hands, they would get ten thousand fewer patients a year would die of infections, and book doctors don’t always wash their hands. In fact, the substantial number don’t well, then matching gifts. The analogy is that if you want substantially more matching gift dollars, all you have to do is remember who matched last year and remind them when they give this year to match again. So it’s, not rocket science. But if you do it, you actually would boost your matching gets there’s a few practices like that that are relatively straight forward, okay. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Before we go back to the rest of the interview, we gotta send live listener love to estero, florida and new york, new york, new york, new york finally where you guys been? Okay, here’s, the rest of the chuck longfield interview my share, another short, simple fun i could find simple and fun that’s, right? So another one is is that a lot of people now moving, too websites to make donations it’s relatively easy to but on your website another line which says that if you work for a matching gift company, please match and you can actually hyper link it to the list of matching cos the twenty thousand companies so somebody, if they do work, they can click, they can look up apple computer, they click on apple computer indicate that they work for apple and the process can begin. And in fact, with somebody like apple, the next thing you’ll be directed to do is click on easy match and the process basically would be finished. Type in your employee i d number indicate that you made the gift and be off. Is that a list of twenty thousand proprietary? You have to be working. With a company to be ableto hyperlink super vis, yes, it’s actually it’s a very low cost and smith it’s made available by two companies, blackbaud is one kapin is and now the gp is another, and it costs about a thousand dollars to license the soft with the list of companies and an awful lot of companies already licensed. It put it on their website, but yes, a small and midsize non-profit that’s not doing that should do it because it’s relatively easy, and then the donor is self serving, servicing themselves, they’re indicating it moving on got another like he’s fun. Well, another one is, is that if you’re a regional non-profit so say europe non-profit in the houston market, houston, texas market and exxon mobil is a big employer in your market, or if you’re a bank of america and urine that their market, you can actually get their blank form. And if you know some of your employees work for exxon mobil, when you thank them, you can actually just send them the form or send them an email hyper linked directly to the exxon mobil website so they could go on, make a donation and it’s relatively easy to determine that some of these people work for exxon because they might already have volunteered their email address and their email address might be chuck it exxon dot com really pretty simple research making it so much easier for the donor hyre that’s correct. And in fact, if you look at the university’s universities that are getting this five, six, seven percent more money aren’t doing anything more than these basics, plus making sure they find out where you work. Okay, what our strategy for finding out where you work, we mention public radio probably doesn’t know that how can i help the small net size shop get that information? So probably the best way is, is that if you’re doing phone of john’s or any type of telemarketing speaking with your donors, so for example, in public broadcasting, they have pledge drives when the person calls it in pledges, you simply ask one more question, where do you work on whether your company matches and you’re off and running? If you do telemarketing you, khun called sometimes organizations calling thank their donors and you think you could ask him if they work for matching company? You can buy this data from song third party vendors. That source isn’t so great yet that that there isn’t really an easy way to give them a list of your donors and for a third party to actually tell you where they worked. But those companies are trying to get better at that. Linked in, obviously, is a celestine, so sometimes you can simply go online, and what a small and mid sized non-profit could be encouraged to do is just go online and look up your major donors. You’re bigger donorsearch sabat e-giving five hundred thousand dollars. Type them into lincoln, see if you can find out where they work it it’s, a matching company pursuit for a matching gift. So i made you die aggressive, too easy and fun. Are there other strategies? Wanna share that geever topic you’re talking about? No, you know, actually, i think the ironic thing about many of these things is that they’re actually relatively straightforward, you know, one of the things that is more complex and could actually make it easier, but easy matches is kind of doing away with it is some organizations can actually take the form, fill it out, fly you send it to you and all you have to do it, sign it and send it back in. And if you’re a national non-profit that’s hard because there’s so many matching gift forms, but it turns out in most cities in america, major cities, three of four, five companies represent eighty percent of the matching gifts in that area. So in many cases, you don’t have to work that hard for it. One other thing you could do, which is probably true of a small kruckel organization. That’s, right? That’s, right, it’s just, you know, most of the money is coming from the big employers in town. Now, one of the other things you could do which is kind of a clever thing, is that say, you know, you have a lot of people who work for a company and it doesn’t match gifts, but you may have twenty or thirty employees that worked for that company. What some people have found success in is actually just making a list of those thirty people are and going and visiting the company in their corporate relations and talking to them about what would you make a donation to us either because you’ll match your employees gifts or you’ll just make a donation, advertise it and you’ll know thirty of your employees is gonna be thrilled because they support the organization as well. And so it’s another way to engage companies and promoted and again universities have gotten very good at that practice is well and end up pursuing people. You have just about two more minutes. Okay, what else? I’m just gonna throw it out. What else would like to share around? Pretty simple teo to build scale? Yeah, that’s e-giving dahna well, the one thing thiss isn’t the technique, but just to show the opportunity when i said that there’s one point four billion dollars donated that’s about ten percent of corporate philanthropy, so corporations make many other donations to non-profits, but about ten percent of it is matching gift contributions. One point four billion that is less than, and in most cases fairly well, less than one percent off. When i said that there’s a five to seven percent opportunity and so there’s tremendous room toe actually raise total corporate philanthropy, matching of france will be by a billion. Two billion dollars. I had a question this morning about what that actually leads corporations to cut back on their match and give program, if all of a sudden what people were doing it. And i’ve talked to people both work in the company’s as well as other knowledgeable people. And they joked that it’s still such a small toe, a percentage of total corporate philanthropy that we could easily double it, and the corporations really wouldn’t block at it. So why definitely encourage non-profits to go after this money, and i think it will be there. Let’s, take that rationalization off the table. You’ll end up cutting us back if we do more often. Hm. Chuck longfield is it is chief scientist, scientist for blackbaud. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for spending time. Pleasure. Thankyou, tony. Pleasure. Thank you. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage becomes twenty twelve. My thanks. Also to the people at blackbaud who supported me when i was there for their october twenty twelve conference. Thanks also to john list and eating. Debray is who works at the university and helped with all the logistics of getting professor list as a guest. And on the phone next week. Marcia stop panic is an adviser to the new york university heimans center for philanthropy. And she was the founding editor of contribute magazine. We’ll talk about the role of women in philanthropy. I’m calling it some raise money. Some raise hell. And amy sample ward, our social media scientist. Little bit of a hell raiser herself, i would say although she’s afraid of alligators. She’s coming back. Amy will be with us next week. More live listener love atlanta, georgia and columbia, missouri. Welcome live listener love to you in georgia and missouri. The five hundred stars campaign. I think i’ve mentioned it once or twice. Please go to non-profit radio dot net, click view in itunes rate the show. Go now, go right now before you forget. Thank you, and thank you for as far as we’ve gotten so far, more than doubled the number of ratings on itunes. Thank you for that. Our creative producer is claire meyerhoff. Sam liebowitz is our line producer, shows social media is regina walton of organic social media, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules ivory. Much hope that you will be with me next friday at talking alternative dot com. That’ll be friday, one to two p, m eastern. Hyre dahna i didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get anything. Think. Cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co, parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com we look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time. Join me. 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Tony’s guest this week:
Jana Jane Hexter, author of “Grant Writing Revealed: 25 Experts Share Their Art, Science and Secrets.”
Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://tonymartignetti.com
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Durney hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i’m your aptly named host, i want to say right at the outset, we have five hundred stars campaign in case podcast listeners might not make it to tony’s take two trying to get one hundred ratings, one hundred five star ratings, hopefully on itunes. So is the five hundred stars campaign, and i would be grateful if you’d go to itunes and raped the show. Do one to five, but we’re hoping for five, and we have winners from last week’s podcast, winner of a three hundred forty nine dollars one year subscription to the atlas of giving courtesy of last week’s guest rob mitchell. The one podcast winner is rich fuss, and we have a podcast winner remaining there’s still one spot remaining from last week’s podcast. But you have to listen. Podcast listeners, all ninety, three hundred of you, teo see how to win as rich frosted and we have winners from this week’s survey. Too old. What we get is the email addresses if your email starts with arts or if it’s martha gentlemen and you filled out the survey then if you have that email address and the survey just in case somebody has arts but you didn’t do the survey, then you wouldn’t have won. But if you did the survey and you have arts or martha john allen as the beginning of your email address, then you also have one, three hundred and forty nine eight three hundred forty nine dollars subscription teo atlas of giving that’s a one year subscription. Oh, i very much hope that you were with me last week. I’d be devastated to hear that you had missed e-giving looking back in the head, it was with rob mitchell, the ceo of atlas, of giving, and he told us how giving by sector source and state did in two thousand twelve and how will do in two thousand thirteen we talked about sectors that increased and which one increased most and all for you to compare how you did, in contrast with the larger picture, and he also shared his forecast for twenty thirteen this week. Iana jane hoexter is with me for the hour. She’s, the author of grantwriting, revealed twenty five experts share their art, science and secrets. We’ll talk about researching relationship building, writing and why you can’t polish a turd midway through the show on tony’s take two we’ll talk a little more about the five hundred stars campaign. I would be grateful for your ratings and i have a new block post out on another site on dhe mentioned that a little bit also, but now i’m very pleased to welcome dahna jane hoexter to the studio. She’s, the author of grantwriting, revealed twenty five experts share their art, science and secrets. She gives the book as a gift to the non-profit community at grantwriting revealed dot com as president of grants champion. Her practice is focused on individual and small group grant etching and training for organizations including retreats and team building for development teams, conference keynotes and grant training for state and national membership organizations. She served on the national board of grant professionals association. Yana is a medium and channels with the spirit world, but she is not our first medium guest we have had we had a medium on once before i’m very pleased to welcome our second medium and the author of grantwriting revealed dahna jane hoexter welcome to the studio thank you nice to meet you. Pleasure to have you on dahna. Um, what was your methodology? How did you find the right twenty five grants? Experts to the interview? Well, it wasn’t entirely scientific process. What i did was i started out with a few people who i had a lot of respect for and had earned raised a lot of money in over the years, and i reached out to some foundations and asked who they thought with their best grantees that wrote the best grand proposals, and i got some really fantastic recommendations. And then i asked heads of national organizations who they would recommend and just ask colleagues in the field, and i was looking for certain things on i wanted to have a really broad spectrum of people that i would interview so for geographic distribution, gender distribution, people that worked on government proposals and foundation proposals and across the field and i really did accomplish that and that people would have a very high success rate and that they would have raised a significant amount of money. But obviously, people who had worked on foundations would raise less money than people who work in government. Grants and i believe this cadre of twenty five raised one point has raised one point seven billion dollars in their careers. Yes. And it’s more since about since the book came out standing and hundreds of years of experience. I’m sure you have four hundred years of experience in twenty four thousand proposals that they have excellent snusz you make the gift. Sorry. You make the book a gift. Why do you do that? On dh what’s what’s your your idea of a gift in this respect, i did that because i realized that i had that i had wanted to write. The book is a way of sharing everything that i had learned in my career. A za grantwriting and that the people who i interviewed gave me that time and were incredibly generous with what they shared. And when it came to publishing the book what i wanted to do, wass to gift it to the non-profit community, not as a freebie is a giveaway. But really, teo stimulate the conversation about what it is to live. Life is a gift that life itself is a gift it’s given to us. We have gif ts within us. That we can share with each other and when we generate communities that are based on generosity and trust, people feel more free to shove a gift, and i feel very deeply about this. And so i decided to put my book wet my mouth, this feel very deeply because you could have made some money doing that. Yeah, i could and s o it is available, people can buy it if you want to buy hardcopy it’s available amazon, but otherwise i truly welcome people to come to my website. You can ask for a copy of the book, and i’m asking people to ask because i want to know that it’s going to someone who would want to use it and we’ll use it on the neat thing is i get to see how people are going to us because you ask, how will you use this? How will you pay it forward? And so it’s a really neat every day i get these emails from people telling me, you know, raising money for an orphanage in guatemala and and and then what i’m asking for people to do is to reciprocate to me in a way that would feel great, and someone sent me some dried cherries from michigan. I’ve had other people send me off beautiful photographs and or more realistically, to pay it forward in their community, integrate the work and pay it forward, or do something directly if some people have been helping at animal shelters or someone person threw a birthday party for an eighty second and each two year old neighbor and invited all of her friends, and she said that that was what she decided to do in response. So so i and then i went asking people to come back to my website and share how they’ve paid it forward, and the reason i’m doing that is because when we give a gift in a family or in a religious community, we can see that we give a presence and we can see that it’s used and appreciated, but when i do it through the internet, i don’t have any of that. I’m just sending it out there, and so so it really creates a sense of community that people can come back and see what other people have done, and this is all that grantwriting revealed dot com, right? That’s where listeners could go for a copy of the book now someone like me would say that you’re holding in your hands iraq, it’s usually iraq that’s on the on the desk here in the studio and i use it to weigh down my headset cable. But we’ve rigged a different way, but this is not a mere rock. This is your holding a crystal. What now? This crystal has always been here for every show that i’ve done this’s show number one hundred twenty six on every every guest has always seen that crystal, but why are you holding it? Well, it’s actually rose court and rose quartz is about love, but most clearly it’s about generating self love and loving yourself in a way that you can give to others. S oh it’s, a it’s all about love, so i just saw it sitting there and i was like, oh, i think that’ll pull that i would feel great to have it sitting here, so of course, and i’ve of course, shunned it one hundred twenty six times, so no love to give here from me that you’re you’re picking up the void that i’ve created, we have just a couple minutes before break and then we’ll have plenty of time to talk about the book. Um, what did we just get into a little? Just a little bit about research finding it’s critical to find the right institution to approach. Yep. And what was it interesting for me when i was working on the book was the people that i interviewed had all had significant experience and so have i. And so when i was interviewing them, what i was really listening for was things that were interesting to me, and i figured if it was interesting to me and i learned something that it was going in the book because i had known all of you, i’ve known the basics for a long time and s o that’s really what’s in the book, but a z in the process of writing it, i was really thinking about what is it that they’re doing that’s different than other people, why they success so successful? Why are they so resilient and able to stay and looking at those essential elements? And originally someone had asked if i could, you know, five top things that top brent writers do and and i looked at it and like, no, they don’t do five top things that no one else does it’s, that they have that they really have this holistic approach, where they do all of the basic things that need to be done, and they don’t skip things that don’t work. And so one of those elements, his research and what you said, they don’t skip things that don’t work. Now, they don’t skip things that they don’t like to dio. Don’t worry, doug, so they know you’re skipping that don’t work, but, you know, we have to take a break. I think that we’ll talk more about the research topic. This is your lovelace host, tony martignetti. Now that i’ve learned that, i’m loveless, i’d only discovered this just moments ago, and when we come back, lots of time talking about yonas book grantwriting revealed, stay with us, talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stopped by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. The website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications. That’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com welcome back there is love in the studio and i’m always sending, of course, live listener love do that every week. So there is love coming from me. Just i’m not holding the courts. Uh, live. Listen, love going out to rest in virginia and harrisonburg, virginia welcome, virginia, new bern, north carolina. I’m going to be there shortly next week. North carolina will be eaten. Rabbit eaten rabbit, rap rapids. I thought you were rabbits. You’re not rabbits. Not have all been bitten. No. Eaton rapids, michigan. Helena montana and newport, oregon welcome, beijing, china, wuhan, china, ni hao live listener love to those and many more coming let’s talk a little more iana about research finding the right match. Okay, so what i realised with the people that i spoke to is that they were very careful about who they actually went to. And so instead of sending things out willy nilly orthe sending things out if they didn’t think they had a good shot place really put time and figuring out, is it worth going to do this? And so they think very carefully about what the thunder is looking for and whether if there is a request for proposals and r p if there was a good fit and one of the things that one of the people i interviewed a head is a really great analogy of having a glove. And he said, if you think of the glove as thie arika p is a glove with, you know, four fingers and a thumb, if you think about the project that we’ve got our organization, does it fit in four fingers, or does it just fit in one thumb on one finger? And to think, if it’s a really good fit, and if it’s just one finger and one thumb, then let’s not bother with it? And i really loved the index finger and one thumb and the pinky way didn’t go that detail, but i actually really like that analogy because i realized afterwards that, you know, people often think of our peace and grants is a mitten like you could shove anything in the interesting. So yeah, so actually thinking of it as a glove, these specific pieces and what’s a fit and what’s not. And so i think, that’s one of the things that to find these people over others was the amount of thought that goes into researching whether a funder is a good fit, whether in honor of p is a good fit and then deciding whether to put time into it or not. I had a pre show a survey question, actually, two questions related to this have you ever been pressured to write a grant proposal you knew wasn’t a good fit with the thunder on about fifty percent said yes, a little more fifty, fifty four percent said yes and the others said no and then related question have you ever been pressured to write a grant proposal? You knew i wasn’t a good fit with your charities mission and about the same pretty close to fifty fifty. What about that? When you get institutional pressure from a supervisor could be a boardmember to write something teo to apply for something that you just know in your heart is not the right match is actually one of the things i talked about the interviews with someone because it’s very common thing you can hear, you know, fifty per cent. So what do you do in those circumstances? We’ll see, i said, all the fifty percent i thought. It was good. I get from grantwriting get’s gross. Yeah. That’s fast the time. Yeah, well, they know they didn’t say half the time, but half the people surveyed had said, all right, i thought it was a good time, but now it’s actually very that’s. Pretty bad. Yeah, i think it’s that, you know, that you’re doing something that you don’t really believe in you. So what feels like a waste of time? Because often, you know, those things aren’t going to get funded. Andi, but one of the people i interviewed he had worked for a large school district, frank, mentally, he worked for a large school district, and in the beginning they kept saying to him, apply for this supply for this apply for this, and he had a hard time saying, you know, actually, we’d be better off doing the strategically if we actually applied for less, but, you know, really thought about what we were doing he wasn’t getting anywhere until that they successfully won two grants that they had written in their department without really working with the school’s, very much it’ll, but at the behest of the administration and the’s with these big grants and he said they ended up having to change them a million times over the years. They were just a mess. The people who were implementing them were not involved in the development, and he said it was because of that, that that then he was able to say, look, when you pressure us to do these things, we can’t actually occasionally win them, and then it creates more of a mess afterwards. So if you just let us work closely with people and really deciding what the best thing is to do, and when they did that, their fund-raising went up, they actually weighs more money when they were being strategic and actually applying for fewer grants and on dh he actually in his korea, i think he was there for over twenty five years. They raised half a billion dollars while he was there. He was an extremely good fundraiser had a team of people. So so what i suggest in the book is if you’re getting that kind of pressure is to ask other grantwriting on fund-raising what are the grants you wish you had never gotten? Because you were kind of pressured into doing it? And take some of those stories and then share them with your board or with with your edie and say, look, you know, i think it’s a consequence of running after money. That really isn’t a good fit. It’s. Not good for the thunder. It ruins your reputation, it’s. Not good for the organization, because you end up working on things that aren’t your highest priority. So you really have to focus on what you’re here for, other than just getting money. Once you’ve identified well, let me ask, is there anything else you want to say about the research process before we moved to starting to build relationships with? No, no, i’m happy to meet you. She’s clutching this crystal is just it’s just terror for the woman’s terrified e i want to get your laugh because i have such a hearty laugh. I love your love that comes with dirty jokes. No way to know for the second half, and we’ll be doing some research because i don’t know any off the top of my head. Um all right, so let’s, start teo, build some relationships where we think there might be an appropriate fit. You spend a good amount of time, i think talking about different roles at the at the funders. So let’s, talk about thea, the gatekeeper. What are we going toe? How do we, uh i work with and maybe around? I don’t know. We’ll see what you say. The gatekeeper at a at a funder. Okay, well, i think i mean, this is more often with foundations rather than government. Because if it’s a government, usually you khun get directly to a programme officer and speak directly with them in most instances. Um, but with foundations it’s hard to just call up and speak to someone on the board or speak to a programme. Officer there’s, usually a gate keeper who you speak to. And just some of the couple of the people that i interviewed were just, like, exquisitely charming, like they charmed the socks off me and like the first five minutes of the interview. So you could just tell that they were just charming anywhere and on dh. They were just great and telling me what they did because this is not my area of expertise. But one of the things that they said is that they would specifically try to generate a relationship with the person that ends the phone and to ask if they could send them in the right direction. Say what they were looking for and on dh then when they actually got an in person interview at the foundation, they would make sure that they would take a book or some small things to do with the with their organization or work. And when they had finished speaking to the programme officer with then say, you know i just actually like to acknowledge and thanks, suzie, for me, she was so helpful to me and setting up this this appointment, and so then they would give that, and then you have a relationship with the person who, you know, may very genuinely feel this protectiveness for the program officer, they can’t let everybody speak to the program office, and they’ve never get any work done. So where it may for us when we cool, it may seem rude or, you know, off putting, you have to really flip it around and remember that it’s actually very a loving thing to do for the program officers that they’re protecting them from the barrage of phone calls. So i think just sort of flipping it around really helps, and at what stage are we making this call to the foundation when you’ve done your research and decided that they were a good fit so well before starting to type? Yes, definitely before starting to type because there’s no point typing if your typing something that’s not actually going to resonate with the people who are reading it. So you want to actually find some some way of developing that? Relationship at least you have an idea of what people are looking for. And this actually if with someone asked me if i had to think of one thing that the top grantwriting that i interviewed did what it boiled down to toe, you do have one. Okay? One maybe. Yeah, but it’s not exclusive s o it’s. Not like the one thing if you do, but what i what i really saw in everybody they interviewed was an exquisite sensitivity to the relationship. So if it was a foundation grant writer, they were, you know, just wonderful a developing relationships with foundations and, you know, the gatekeepers on dh. If it was a government grant writer, it might not be so much like interpersonal relationship, but they were exquisitely attuned to how the r f p was written. Who wrote it? Who is going to be a river reviewing it? How to write so the reviewer would would really get it. So it was just this really strong sensitivity to the fact that it is not a piece of writing that you just send out willy nilly. It’s a piece of writing that you’re communicating from your organization from you, directly to another human being who’s who’s reading yes, and you know that you’ve gotten to know that human being on dh now, even if they if they perhaps won’t take a meeting, though you would you would try you develop a relationship by phone? Yes, and you can, you know, hopefully you can call up you khun you can ask for an interview could asked for some time chatting on the phone for a few minutes, and even if the answer to that is no it’s informational, too, you know that there are some foundations that are more open and there’s some for the foundations that are more private and just even in those interactions you get which one that you’re working with, and so it might give you an idea of the type of writing that would work for an organisation that chooses to be more private, and and it also gives you a signal of whether you can develop some kind of relationship with an organization like that. Sometimes you can’t and that’s just a signal to back and maybe put more focus and attention with an organization or foundation, whether how more open and so now you’re in the office of the project, officer, we’ll talk a little a few minutes about the government program officer because you spend all the time we’re talking about them specifically, but now you’re in a project officer let’s say, the foundation you’re in their conference room or their the office? What types of things are you trying to elicit? Well, i think it’s not a matter of eliciting, actually, i think it’s more a matter of listening and s o really listening for what that price is? Why? This is why i’m not a grand writer at all because, you know, obviously terrible, i’d have the whole wrong attitude, that’s the whole thing? No, no, but i’m learning. I’m learning. Okay, uh, a lot of listening. Okay, so you want to find out what their priorities you want to understand? A little bit about how the foundation works. So it could be a program officer who has some degree of power to approve or deny something, but usually that’s a boardmember so often what program officers are looking for our winners that they can take to their board. You know, their job is to find good projects. Good. Organizations good people and bring them to the board saying i think this would be a winner, so you want to be very conscious of what it is that they’re looking for so that they can bring good proposals too. Teo to the board, the other thing to bear in mind is that they can often can’t green light things they can read like things, so they may say that this isn’t a good fit. I don’t think so, but they often do not have the power to say absolutely we’re going to fund this, they can say, i think our board would like it, and then your next question is always going to be how can i empower you to teo persuade for us in the board room? Because they’re your ad. They are your advocate in the boardroom, right? Let’s, let’s talk about about that perfect segway to the trustees to and so so the people who do make the decisions of the trustees in the vast majority of cases and but you may not have a relationship with the trustee of the small foundation you might, but over the larger one where there are program offices, you you do not. So what you really want to focus on there is finding out what our priorities for the people who are making the decisions and the program officers may be able to tell you that on dh then for the program offices is really looking at, you know, what is it that i can give you that makes your job easier when you’re speaking with the board friend? They may say, you know, give me a power point with three pages on it or give me a, you know, one sentence that i can use or just you may think it’s pages and pages and often time it’s the simplest things that they need onda or sometimes it’s a story, give me a story about someone you’ve worked with. I can pass that along so so that you can so that the board members can really make a decision based on what matters to them. In some instances, if it’s a smaller foundation, you may have a relationship directly with the boardmember there may not be any program officers, in which case it’s same set of questions. What matters to you, what you care about, you know you. Have to really remember that they give the money away, that they don’t have to give it’s just giving it away because they can what is it that they care about really deeply enough to be involved in? We’re giving the money away and also exposing themselves as a person of wealth and, you know, to being constantly asked, they must really care deeply about something and how what is it that they care about that you also care deeply about? And where is that common point so that you can really work together on creating something that wouldn’t exist? Otherwise, you know, if there was just the foundation having tons of money, but not the not the relationships, they can’t accomplish anything if it’s a non-profit with relationships and ideas and energy and vision, but no resource is financial resources they can accomplish, but you put all the resource is together, and it creates something in the world that would not exist on, you know, without without that coming together. And so i often think that grant writers have this beautiful role of facilitating search, another form of mediumship it’s facilitating between different groups to present something that wouldn’t exist otherwise. Dahna jane hoexter is author of grantwriting revealed twenty five. Experts share their art, science and secrets. And when we come back, it’ll be tony’s. Take two, and then more time with yana and lots more live listener. Love will stay with us because you didn’t think that shooting. Good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network e-giving. E-giving cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s two one two seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Yeah. I’m christine cronin, president of n y charities dot orc. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Welcome back, big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent time for tony’s take two at pretty much thirty two minutes into the hour it’s the five hundred stars campaign i’m i’m looking for one hundred ratings on itunes so that we can reflect the fact that there’s over nine thousand listeners on their only about twenty ratings on itunes, so i’d like to fix that and the reason this’s not just ego there’s there’s a rationale for wanting more ratings on itunes, and that is because it will raise the prominence of this show among itunes and thereby share the show and its experts with mohr charities in the charity community. So it’s really an act for dahna if i can draw from the crystal and i’m gonna hold the crystal drawing, i’m holding the crystal now first time one hundred twenty six so you know, i’m desperate, i’m seeking love from the crystal you’re sending out love to the charity community throughout the world by raising the prominence of the show, and the way to do that is to get us to one hundred one through five star ratings and it’s five hundred stars campaign because i hope you’ll give us five stars, but you don’t have to, but that’s what i’m hoping and that’s the five hundred stars campaigns, i thank you very much for doing that. You start at non-profit radio dot net and then click view in itunes or just go to itunes and search for the show name and read it there. I also want you to know that i have a new blood post on non-profit fund-raising well, the name of the block is non-profit fund-raising my post is what is planned e-giving and you’ll find that blogged at management help dot or ge, and i’ll have a new post there every every month, so you can either go to management, help dot or gq, or just google non-profit fund-raising and you’ll see that blogged the non-profit fund-raising blawg come up as pretty sure that’s the very first result and that is tony’s take two for friday, january twenty fifth, the fourth show of the year. And yana i want tio thank you for letting me borrow the thie crystal for the stone the now the courts, the courts that’s what? I keep going in crystal but that that’s how little i know, but it is crystal court’s, so heroes e could be what’s what’s what’s the word for a rock geologist. Write just i was thinking of entomologist but that’s insects that’s entomologist is insects. Entomologist is words, but but they were both wrong geologist live listener love, newport, oregon. Truman’s, burghdoff york, new york, new york are you still on? After this diatribe about entomology and geology, you’re probably no longer with us. But if you are live listener love to newport, oregon, newport, oregon. That’s, terrific truman’s, burghdoff york, new york, new york and raymond main welcome, seoul, korea, on yo haserot live listener loved all our live listeners. You make a point of spending the time talking about government program officers and how they could be different than project officers at a foundation so let’s for people who are seeking government grants, why is the government program officer a little different? Well, we pay their salary, so it makes it a little different. So government program officers really considered that their job is teo be a civil servant who provides information, and so they are quite different from foundations in that you should expect that of program officer is happy to pick up the phone, happy to respond to your e mails and answer any questions that you have it does it’s not always the case in new york state. I’m not sure if this is this case in other states, but in new york state they have really could put gag rules around the state employees so now it’s hard for them to answer questions, even if they would like to, but mostly definitely the federal level on dh. There may be blackout periods where they’re not allowed to talk to you, but you can you can go and set up a meeting, you could go off and go meet with program officers in washington, d c or in your state capital and it’s a great opportunity to listen what’s really important for them, they’re incredibly experienced people. Sometimes you’ve been in the business for decades have seen what works, what doesn’t work, you can really hear what they’re looking for and on dh, they’re happy to talk to you, and if you’re applying for a federal grant and you don’t take advantage of that it’s just this whole gap because it’s just the whole amount of information that’s available to you that just that is all you have to do is call and it’s not a difficult thing and so happy to tell you what their priorities are and what that might be. Don’t go asking questions that aeryn, there are p that’s just really annoying. But read the rp thoroughly and then, if there are nuances, are questions you might have beyond that that’s time when you’d want to speak to the program officer and then i found them to be anchor, incredibly helpful and quite a bit more accessible, easily accessible what’s around the blackout periods that you mentioned, where are a program officer might not be allowed to talk to you. Okay, well, how’d it’s an example of that where they will talk to you for most of the year? But once there general our p, which is called a supernova, comes out they supernova supernova so supernova of george in jail on tony martignetti non-profit ditigal and trying to get you in there, you and your courts, crystal what’s a supernova supernova is a super. And then the nufer stands for a notice of funding. I don’t know what the a would be maybe announcement, something like that. And but anyway, it’s, when they put out all their are of peas at once, and they call it the supernova. And once the supernova has come out, then their staff members, and not allowed to speak to teo organizations. And i think it has roots in the fact that there was some shenanigans going on years ago with relationships that were not totally above board. So they had this blackout period. But up until then you can and and and that it’s true with some other agencies, they’ll occasionally i have noticed that some program officers go on vacation during the time of the grant development period which is not really helpful. That’s our own personal black out that’s great, right that’s. A good guess. That’s. Great. We’re blacking out. Okay, so now you have a sense of you have very good sense. Hopefully of what it is that’s going to motivate the decision maker and let’s talk so let’s, talk a little about the the design of your programme or your project on dh, please. You have something called the dominatrix gene in the book. So let’s let’s, work that in okay. Great. So yes, the idea is, if you’ve done research, you know what someone’s looking for you have reached out to them and have an idea of what personally really matters to him so that you are connecting and knowing that it’s worthwhile for you to spend hours and hours and hours in writing a grant proposal? Eso you’ve done all the prep work that, you know, it’s worth while and then you want to be thinking with working with your team and your agency about planning a project that you really know is going to resonate with the thunder and you made this is a backwards and forwards process, you know, you kind of start, you may go back to them and really develop it with input from them, so, you know, so so you’re still in communication with them? Absolutely, i’m if you have questions, certainly when during the process of things come up, you know, reach back out and and don’t do it in a void. So the dominatrix jean i looked it, actually that their two personalities when i i was on a plane coming back from california when i’d done all the interviews and so i decided that i was going to read all of thie interviews to collectively, and i have to like our three. I was like, wow, it’s almost like i interviewed one person. They were so similar in a lot of that traits, and then i realized, like, own actually no it’s two people, because the people who work on foundation grants tend to have extremely good interpersonal skills that they use in developing relationships with funders. But the government grant developers also had excellent into personal skills. But maurin managing a team on dh on dh using that a za way of keeping a project on track because it really requires, like military grade precision to do these things in a short time window. So one of the people i interviewed she’s she’s from the fifties early sixties and just writes hud proposals, and she had she said, well, you know, it’s, really this balance of, you know, of love and power, it’s i’m a dominatrix at heart, so it’s, you know, having a timeline and then holding people to the timeline and she said, you know, it’s one part charm, one part threat, you know? And so, andi, i saw this is actually a common thing with some of the people that i interviewed and i’ve just handed myself cause i work on large grants to of just, you know, having a look att how you actually accomplished this of, you know, pushing people actually, that you have to to get these things done sometimes, but also having people still wanting to work with you and swan ting to get this done, and people are tired and, you know, keeping flagging spirits going heimans so finding this balance between holding people accountable and on dh, but also keeping keeping their spirits up, and and there are several ways of doing that one of the people a couple of people in the book mentioned, you know, the there’s, the threat of public exposure, that khun go with it, you know, if we really must have stopped, this could be in the paper and that that’s one piece, but for me, personally, i i really focus actually on calling on people’s hyre good it’s like, do you remember that this is a five million dollar grant that we’re going to bring to a school district so that kids who don’t have access to x, y and z will for the next five years like this is really going to make a difference. And you’re doing that right now with, you know, working for this extra half an hour right now, and and i also find that helps in planning meetings. You know, when people start getting territorial and, you know, i don’t want to do this, right. Barreira is, i bring people back to. Do you remember why we’re here, like we’re here to create something that is really going to make a difference? And could you actually just drop that piece? And are you willing to drop that so we can accomplish something much larger and then thin exist on? I find that that works very well with people rounding people to the purpose. Yeah, exactly, reminding them why we’re here and what we’re up to. Not surprisingly, because i do hear this a lot, even my experience in grantwriting that the importance of storytelling as we start as we move now toe writing what’s going to be submitted storytelling brings things alive, obviously right? Yeah, absolutely. And i actually am of natural storyteller, and i think a lot of great writers are natural storytellers, and i think as a human species, we are storytellers, you know, that’s what we do, we communicate through stories and and so grantwriting is no different, you know, people think of the grantwriting process is all about the writing when people ignore the research, the relationship, building in the planning and and so they but they also just think of it is kind of factual writing, you know what? We’re going to write this down, and they forget about this story element and and so i think it’s it’s, it’s critical to think about why, what story you’re telling and what of the roles of the thunder play in that story and just to engage the reader right from the beginning? And one of the people i interviewed actually was a theater director, and he had talked about the fact that when he is thinking about a proposal, he thinks of it a cz like, you know, it’s the same as he does this to play, you know, what is the story here? What will keep people coming back for the second act on where’s? The complication and someone else i interviewed. She said she thinks if she writes he’s, very boring had proposals. I mean, housing and urban development, housing and urban development. Yes. And their proposals are not known for, you know, creativity and on dh, she said, i think of the most romance novels dahna out amazing. So she said, well, i think that was as romance novels and, you know, you have to flirt with them a little bit. You have to have them have give them a sense of who that they would keep reading. And not so far is fifty shades of grey, no for his romance novel, but not bringing in the dominatrix stream down and xero yes, actually. So you want to but it’s just that he’s that point of of keeping people interested in intrigue, and not especially with government proposals. Just don’t keep it all bland and boring. You can give examples of stories of the people that you serve on also. But the proposal itself, you can kind of think about that. So just a minute before a break. So just in that little time, how do we deal with on help to hope to avoid writing bike, buy committee? Gosh, just don’t do it. But how do you avoid it when everybody’s everybody wants to participate? They want they want to write their own part and they want to review the whole thing. Okay, so basically you just have to be really clear that you know what you’re doing, that you have the capacity to write very well into raise lots of money and you will take their input. But you have to be really clear about who the scribes and that’s you and that you that you have to have one primary voice. You can’t have more than one voice in in a writing document. It’s. Just too much work for the reviewer. So be very clear. I good at what i do. Make clear and concise writer i will incorporate what really matters to you. And but this’s give people plan to ten chinese to give. You feedback, but not, but not to write it and put their voice in, right? So you are, in fact, right, so listening, their input, but using, as you said, just the one voice, exactly. Excellent. We’re gonna take this break, and when we return more time with with yana talking about grantwriting revealed. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Metoo welcome back. We’re having great fun talking about grantwriting on dme or live listener love, philadelphia, p a north, richland hills, texas, and la jolla, california. Welcome live listener love to you na ha, japan, tokyo, japan, konnichiwa and algeria. I’m sorry. We don’t know what city algeria the software is only showing the country soldier do the best i could. Um, so we are yes, we’re trying to avoid writing by by committee and a single voice. Any any other advice? Just that you’re the expert leave me alone? Yeah, yeah, i think what can be really helpful is giving people an outline. One of the people i interviewed said this is it’s easier to get people to give you input on outline and content rather than on the final narrative when that might be wordsmithing. So people project your people who are, you know, work doctors working in a hospital, for example, might be better if you give them so that the outline the main ideas and they’re like on and on and that doesn’t work. You need to add this, but they’re not going to be giving you you no advice on different different wording and that really that’s more helpful to people because, ah, you want t get as much input as you can from your team. Definitely. And also they can draft pieces on sections for you. You just need to be really clear that you know that i have the final say in how it’s crafted as faras the language goes on dh it’s, not from the fact that i need to, you know, dominate here. I need it’s known ego thing. It’s really? That if you want us to win, this is the best way of doing it. And let me do my job so that we can win. So you do have a section of the book devoted to cem cem secrets. And one of those is that you can’t polish a turd. Yes. So how does that relate to grantwriting? Actually, that comes in on element about truth telling. The way the book is laid out, actually, is that there are twenty four elements things that i consider to be really essential elements for grantwriting and that people can go through the book, read about those elements, and then there’s a quiz. Actually, that i developed that’s also on my website. That people can take it, and then they can see which elements they might be weak on, in which my elements they might be strong on. And the argument that i that i make is that i think the top grantwriting sits like a link in a chain, so they have all four of those are all twenty four of those links that a strong so that the whole process is strong on that can allow for artistry to emerge for the craft to emerge, but when you’ve, you know, skipped a step by, you know, not building a strong relationship, we’re not even reaching out or skipping the research, something like that that then that you don’t have that solid foundation, so one of the elements is about being impeccable with the truth and it’s something that everybody who deals with fund-raising comes up with your, especially with grantwriting because you’re dealing with a deadline and you’re dealing with money, so you’ve got time and money that the two biggest pressures of our society and their slapped right in your face with a six week deadline and a multi million dollar grant to prepare. So what often happened? And often, but reasonably often people ask you to cut a corner it’s like, well, we don’t have time to do that. We can’t do that and you know that ethically it crosses a boundary for you on dh, then you’re stuck with what do i do with this? And what we find is is that often those ethical corners are asked because people don’t know that it’s actually not a reasonable thing to do, so you can just simply explain, actually, that would be in violation of the end of this ethical code, or that on dh, then that’s the other piece i’ve just flat out saying, i refuse to do that, and then they and then that but there’s this grey area in this boundary of taking something and showing its best aspect ce you know that that is totally fine. So taking some things and really highlighting its strength said that is a but that’s our craft that’s what we do, the polishing, the turd peace comes with really knowing of looking at that situation. Do you have something really worthwhile and fragment? Lee, one of the people i interviewed, he said that when he first started a job at a community college years and years ago, his boss came on his first day, a late to a meeting, and he said, i’m so sorry i was late, i was at a meeting with the council of dean’s, and we spent three hours trying to polish a turd, and then we realized that we couldn’t i have nothing left when you do that there is indeed so so there’s this place off, you know, taking a used car and buffing it up and making it look good and pointing out the low mileage that’s totally great, but is there really anything worthwhile there? And for people that is always it’s an ethical decision that you have to make for yourself? And you’re the one that has to sleep at night and for myself the way i often do that, please, i think about last year and how hard i work to pay my taxes is a government grand like this’s my money, actually, that we’re spending here. Do i want my money going to this? If it’s a foundation proposal, i think if this was my parents and i was asking my parents to invest their retirement money in this wood, i feel comfortable about that and so the for me, that was kind of my two questions of where i go with it am i really just, you know, putting the best spin on something? Or am i just just taking something that’s not too shouldn’t be funded, you know, let’s ah, have what i like to share ah, love moment, tell me what it is that you love about grantwriting in this whole process, what i love about it, what i love about it is it brings things into existence, it wouldn’t exist otherwise, and and it really gets to the cooler what i love, what i work with people is getting to the core of what they love and why they do their work, and i often work with people who’ve been in the field for decades and have helped them fund-raising that they have dreamed about literally for twenty or thirty years and then bringing the funding for them so they can see it happen. So it’s very rewarding for me. Enjoy that. Do you practice buddhism? No, no, i thought you may. I see a lot of elements of what you’re the way. You talk and the way you relate, but thank you very much for being a guest welcome pleasure. You’re not holding the crystal, the court’s crystal as tightly as you were an hour ago. That’s very good that’s a very good sign. It’s been a pleasure having you as a guest. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You’re welcome dahna jane hoexter, the author of grantwriting, revealed twenty five experts share their art, science and secrets, and you’ll you can download the book as a za gift is, yon explained at grantwriting revealed dot com and you confined her consulting at grants champion dot com next week. I’ll have for you an interview from blackbaud sze bb con conference last october, where i was getting a bunch of interviews from the speakers there and also scott koegler, our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news will be back with trends in tech specific needs, social media and customization. I’d be grateful for your for your one two five star rating on itunes. Lots of lots of live listeners today more than usual, if you could open a window to itunes after you close the window or listening here. I’d be very, very grateful. Thank you. More live listener love going to atlanta, georgia, clifton park, new york. Nanjing, china shenzhen, china knee. How? Istanbul, turkey. And shuja shuhei, china live listener love to all of you. We’re all over the social web facebook, youtube, twitter linked in four, square ah, pick out one linked in have you joined the linked in group? 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E-giving cubine hi, i’m donna and i’m done were certified mediators, and i am a family and couples licensed therapists and author of please don’t buy me ice cream are show new beginnings is about helping you and your family recover financially and emotionally and start the beginning of your life will answer your questions on divorce, family court, co parenting, personal development, new relationships, blending families and more dahna and i will bring you to a place of empowerment and belief that even though marriages may end, families are forever join us every monday, starting september tenth at ten a m on talking alternative dot com are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications? Then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way look forward to serving you! You’re listening to talking alternative network at www dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. Oh, this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays, one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. 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