226: Corporate Coffers & Committee Confab – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

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Hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio, where we’re talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. Oh, i hope you were with me last week. You would cause me to go into cardiogenic shock if i learned that you had missed fermentation sandorkraut cats is a fermenter. We talked about the history, benefits and methods of fermenting foods and volunteermatch making scott koegler, our technology contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, shared ideas about tech that matches willing volunteers with seeking charities this week, all aboard. First, get the best out of your board our panel shares wisdom on identifying, recruiting, training, engaging and transitioning board members. I talked to allison char now, terry, billy and holly bellows at fund-raising day in june and back to board basics, do you, jane takagi are legal contributor returns to contribute to continue our discussion on soundboard practices? This time, we’ll talk about term limits, how often you’re bored should meet having automatic removal provisions and very young trustees that’s young in age, not in how they’re acting, and jean is principal of the non-profit exempt organizations law group between the guests on tony’s take to my beth cantor interview is on video, and i feel i let you down last week, and i’m going to explain that right now. We have the interview from fund-raising day this past june, where we’re talking about getting the best out of your board, and here is that welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen where at the marriott marquis hotel in times square, midtown new york city and we’re talking now about board relations. My guests are it’s needed most closest closest to meet holly bellows, chief development officer of helen keller’s services for the blind. Next to her is terry billy, director of corporate and foundation relations for goodwill industries of new york and new jersey. And we also have allison for now director of external affairs for the bronx museum of the arts ladies welcome. Thank you. Thank you. It’s. A pleasure to have you. Your seminar topic is bored. Relations getting the best out of your trustees. No, let’s start far away. Allison, can we start with recruitment? What? What? What’s? Some advice around identifying and recruiting the right boardmember well for museum. We have a lot of opportunities for cultivation of perspective, trustees. We looked to people who come to many of our events. We sort of noticed repeat attendees way start plucking them out. We invite them to special private events. We find that people are very attracted to sort of exclusive private events, not generally open to the public. So we invite them to dinners or preview openings of exhibitions and that’s how we generate interests, and we see if they respond to that we just keep cultivating more and generally that’s, that’s way, tio sort of notice and pounce on perspective prospects. We also use other trustees to help us, and they bring along people whom they think would be a fit for the museum to two events as well. Okay, i mean, i sort of go down the line on different topics. Teri, you have anything you’d like to add about identifying the right people? Well, we’re different kind of agency were a social service ages. We don’t really have events or exhibitions or things like that that people would come to so instead we have to really go the traditional route, which is working with our trustees to see if they have friends or colleagues or others that might come be interested in working with our organization or we go toe on organizations such as bored source to do recruitment. Two or two funders, corporations, foundations that might be interested in supporting us in a different way through ford relations. Okay, so you’re relying more on your board because you don’t have those cultivation events. By the way, terry, i want to welcome you back to the show. Thank you. Chatted with you this time last year. How about you, holly? Like they have that goodwill industries is doing well differently. Well, we’re also human service organization. We serve the blind, and those were deaf blind. And so we have the same process as terry. We look for people who are already within the organization. People that know people that want to be committed for the long along home. Okay? And i apologize. I confused you with i’m sorry, terry. I’m here with goodwill industries and holly. Of course, you’re with falik falik color this’s blind. Thank you very much. Coach me on each individual word. Now i have it. Holly’s with helen keller services for the blind. Thank you, but no, thank you. Thank you for saving me. Okay, after we’ve way haven’t identified the right people way have to start. Teo, make conversation a lot more serious. Terry, how do we how do we go about that? Well, we work with a development committee. In fact, i had my development kitty meet committee meeting last night, which we met with five of our board members. And we talked about the different things that were doing to raise money. And we talked about developed direct mail cultivation events and funding alerts for possible corporate foundation connections, finding out what they’d like to do, how they like to help. And so that’s that’s, how we work with our board, we have a lot of other board members that in war policy driven, so they’re not so much into fund-raising so we have to use them as ambassadors they’re not so comfortable in. They get scared about fund-raising and what the expectations will be have to have to come out in the recruitment process. Right? Right. Would you say holly? This is critical. We need to be up front. How do you how do you do that? Helen keller. Well, right now i weigh had a board meeting on monday morning and a golf tournament afterwards. And so i i spoke with the board that i will be interviewing them over the next couple of months. Existing existing board, the existing board. Okay, and on that will be part of the question is, we also had a former board members come to the golf tournament to reinforce the other ties to the organization, and i will be interviewing them, too. And so is part of that process reaching out to not only what they’re interested interests are going forward, but, you know, looking for prospects and, you know, foundations as well as their personal connections for future board development. Imagine it’s it’s it’s important not to be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Different board members have different interests. Aptitudes abilities, right? They can all come to the board for different reasons. Maybe they had someone in their family that is blind or deaf blind. Or maybe it just seems like a really cool thing to do. They learned about helen keller in third grade here in new york state. And they want teo you. Know, be a part of it. So various everyone has various reasons why they want to be on the board, and we want to exploit those personalities and and credentials, right? That’s, right? Some people they may not be able to get give from their personal wealth or their corporate wealth, but they are connected to lots of people who may be able to give to us or a foundation. I interviewed someone earlier today who uses is actually sort of ah, trainer on linked in hey uses, linked in board, connect on trains, organizations to use linked in board, connect to any of you use that for identifying potential board members. Anybody? Yes, that’s one of the things that we are planning to grow our board in the coming fiscal year fiscal starts in july, so we will be using board, connect as one of the tools and dish in tow board source to reach out and look for a new board members. So you haven’t used board connect yet? No. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I do plan to use it, though, so you’re so holy. You’re aware. Also aboard. Connect. I’m aware of it, but i haven’t used it. I’m creating a separate committee. A cz i told you before the interview. I’m hyre helmsley. We have a grant from the helmsley found charitable foundation and one of their charges tow us is to create a aboard for one of our programs so that we can attract funders and people who are interested in serving the deaf blind. And so i’m going to be using it soon to look for people across the country that might want to become members of this committee. Alison to make this aa two way street. How does the organization identify what it has to offer board members in return for their for their service? Right? Well, when we interview a prospect way really try and find out what? What is it that draws them to the museum? What is their interest? And for us, we have, ah, large education component. We have the whole art collection component, so they’re different reasons why a trustee would join the board of the museum. So we try and suss out what that will be. And i find a commonality is that they want to learn more. They often want to learn more about art. So for those who do, we put them on the acquisitions committee, and that way they can meet artists, and they can learn all that are they come to gallery tours. We sort of feel what? What is it that attracts them? So for others, it’s education, and they want to be part of the whole education programs. So they join the education committee for the board waken segment, their interests, and sometimes they don’t even overlap with board members. But we can sort of put them where they’re most enthusiastic. Okay, talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Do you need a business plan that can guide your company’s growth? Seven and seven will help bring the changes you need. Wear small business consultants and we pay attention to the details. You may miss our culture and consultant services are guaranteed to lead toe. Right, groat. For your business, call us at nine. One seven eight three, three, four, eight, six zero foreign, no obligation. Free consultation checkout on the website of ww dot covenant seven dot com are you fed up with talking points? Rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow. No more it’s time for action. Join me. 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Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com and just while we’re still on this recruitment process, terry, how i said, terri and i looked at allison mary-jo terry, how do you explain the organization’s expectations? Is it in writing, or is it just a conversation? Thie expectations around all all the functions of a boardmember it’s through conversations way actually, in the past, our board has not really been a fund-raising board, and so we’re in the process of kind of transforming and educating our board as to their financial responsibility, even though that’s something that most people understand that that is one of the reasons why you become aboard is to support the organization, unfortunately, we have boardmember is that have not made a gif right? And so we need to have the conversation with them and to say that we need one hundred percent support, it doesn’t mean that you need to give us one hundred thousand dollars. You can give us five thousand dollars, you could give us three thousand dollars, you need to give us something so that’s one of our challenges with our organization, with a board that we are working through, even though we’re jumping way ahead in the boardmember life. Cycle that could be an indicator that it’s time for a boardmember step down exactly. In fact, we just started a new campaign to attract the millennials, the young twenties and thirty somethings to start, eh? Maybe a young, not so much a board, but a council we’re going to call the good the good counsel, and they’re going to be younger people that we want to get involved and engaged and so that they could eventually turn into board members. So we’re starting with the youth, starting with they’re all about cause marketing and the finding ways to make a difference by their volunteering, so we’re going to be working with them to do that, and then eventually, you know, have them start their own, like little special events and cultivation and awareness and marketing, and then eventually waken see floats to the top and hopefully get him on board. Okay, back-up another step, let’s say we’ve recruited the boardmember we need to keep that person active, engaged who wants to talk about keeping a boardmember active and engaged way have we’re fortunate that we have a vehicle for doing that, we can invite them to openings and too many events, but it’s really also about having them see the inner workings, lights, lights just dimmed here. Nothing wrong for those of you watching the video on youtube, there’s nothing wrong with your vision. The overhead lights all just went out here. Marriott marquis. But we’re continuing. We have our own lights powered battery so doesn’t doesn’t interrupt back on. Okay, no, don’t adjust your sets. Everything is fine. Okay? I’m sorry. Go ahead. So for example, that the trustees who are interested in education way let them come and see the classrooms that come to the museum to see the work in progress and to see the work that we do so it’s very important that they come in and see all the grassroots work that’s that’s happening. And the other thing is that we just try to make them feel special. I mean, we try to write letters that are personalized for them that nobody else could get, so that they would feel that, you know, they in fact do make a difference there. So, you know the gratitude combined with hands on and really seeing what what’s going on works to really keep them interested. Invested? In it good, great, it isn’t. One of the things that i have begun doing is whenever we get a grant or a large donation, even a small donation, but we are an organization that’s been around for one hundred twenty years or more, and so we have lots of get small gifts that we get and half for a long time, but i ask different board members to call the foundation or call the person and just a thank you they don’t ask for anything, but to in that way, they’re learning more about that organization, and they’re feeling connected and that’s been a real positive response that i’m getting. So as i said, we’ve been around for a long time, we have many donorsearch couldn’t call everyone they are picking up more and more that they can do. So. Holly, how about training training the new boardmember what does that look like for for helen keller way haven’t i haven’t started training yet since i’ve been since october, but what that will look like is for is creating a talking points and some role playing for those that haven’t gone out and ask for money, paring them with someone who has done it and feels comfortable with it, having conversations about their experience on other boards. It’s, interesting custom, many of our boardmember serve on other boards on, sometimes they’ve gone out and made asking some have not so it’s going to be a combination of things here teach person’s comfort level. At the very least, i tell boardmember sze in in the past that invite the person to join you, make your donation in first and then in fight uh, your prospect to join them if you just can’t really say, can you give x amount of dollars so that’s a nice, non threatening way to get started and asking for money. Allison, how about training the new boardmember bronx museum of the arts? What does that look like? Well, we have a retreat on annually and in terms of role playing, there was a facilitator who came and your role played about making an ask and talking about the priorities for the museum, so it was really a time it was a very concentrated long day dahna meeting the other board members really learning about the mission and learning how to move it forward howto ask. And how to do that. Nut’s involves metoo holly, it sounded almost like you have ah, maybe a mentor mentee relationship for board members is that? Is that is that overstating? No, it didn’t help that a senior boardmember mike, you that’s correct, my position is newly created position, and part of that is to help our board became come more of a fund-raising board many of our programs our government funded, so there wasn’t a need in the past to be a fund-raising board and many organizations like helen keller, are transitioning from having helly government funded programs to where they’re going to have to go out for private gifts, and they’ll get bored members more senior boardmember help with that, terry. Anyway, you want to add about training the new boardmember right that’s, exactly the same situation that good will in addition to having individual individuals support, we have also had in the past a lot of government funding, so asking board members to help with raising money is a somewhat new angle for them. So what we’ve been doing is bringing on a different new board members, for example, way just havin a new boardmember from j p morgan chase, who has been on other boards and has done fund-raising so he is kind of going to be a example or role model to the other board members to show show them how easy and painless it is, but we do have to identify tasks board members who just can’t do fund-raising or maybe maybe won’t? Well, maybe won’t takes little training, but they’re just they’re timid. They’re terrified of it. Terry, what do we identify other things that that boardmember could do around fund-raising right, right. Other than asking right it’s it’s getting them to come to different events or different cultivation events, too, talk, be an ambassador, so they’re not asking for money. They’re building awareness, they’re talking to their friends about what they do about what goodwill does and sharing the passion about what the organization’s all about and really building awareness, not so much asking for money. If they’re afraid of asking for money, they could be a representative and record. For those who are afraid, teo, ask or it’s just uncomfortable for them. We often say what we need you to do is identify potential trustees, advocate cultivate b passionate and then we come in that’s our job and the and the executive director’s stopped to come in and do the ask, so it takes the awkwardness and the onus away from them, and they feel that they can just freely invite a guest without the worry of having to do the actual ask, okay, how about may be hosting an event? They could perhaps open their home? Holly other tasks that again trying to identify things that people who will solicit can still be involved in around fund-raising well, i have someone on our board who is an attorney, and that person uses their personal skills to review documents that are very important to fund-raising such as st charitable registrations for things like that that are very important documents that keep my department moving and keep us legal and transparent, but that’s not at, you know, going out, asking for money, but it is very important to the movement of the organization. So, yes, there are other task that besides fund-raising the other part of my practice, besides plan e-giving is the charity registration i wrote. I wrote a new book on how to do-it-yourself you and i do the registrations for charities i don’t want to do. Them so very well acquainted with that enormous morass called charity registration. Terry, we’re gonna have something. Yeah, just the same thing is asking people to host a breakfast, maybe at the club, maybe at a restaurant they go to or at there. If they have a nice house or an apartment to host something again to invite their friends or people that we want to get more engaged, all they need to do is be the be the host they don’t need to ask. Okay? And we do that also especially we play in the bronx nostalgia. So we have people hosting private problem bronze talk to sow bronx artists from storytellers. We really emphasize the bronx and have these very small, intimate events at people’s homes, and those people who host often become interested because they posted they become vested. And then the whole positive spiral happens where they want to get more involved. It’s great. How about the i don’t know the recalcitrant boardmember who just either can’t do it? I won’t do it. Or that you could. But it’s just not too. Is that person need to be transitioned off the board? How do we how? Do we finesse that situation or they’re recalcitrant? Maybe about or maybe there their attendance is very poor. Maybe they are. Maybe they’re great fundraisers, but their attendance is back. You start to see these signs, how do we want to take the first shot that way? Especially the previous job i had at a small museum. It’s, very hard because in a small shop you get to develop relationships with your trustees and you realized, especially in the economic downturn in the past years, that life happens that trustees have goes divorces, they go through bad business times, and that may account for they’re not coming there, not being able to give. And i think in a small place where you built intimacy it’s really important to have some flexibility to give them, for example, if you know there’s a personal situation to give them a year or so, it is sorted out and have a little bit of leeway. On the other hand, you know, once you do that and it continues, i think then that’s, when the board president needs to talk to the boardmember find out what’s going on and have a really frank discussion about whether it’s working for both people often they’re relieved to be let off the hook. Okay, mary-jo you’re tense, that’s totally familiar with me. I mean, we in my past organisations and in this one you have sometimes people that you just know that they’re heading out because they haven’t shown up wave a big gold wheel or a rappel wheel in the four in the booth next to us. That’s what you’re hearing it’s not we’re not giving any other way, but with next to us is giving away t shirts, caps, mugs or ipad mini being in the drawing for a night. So that’s that’s what you’re hearing going so, you know, we just recently had one of our board members say that she needed to step down because life changes and different areas of interest abila different, different levels of interest in what we’re doing, we’re already priorities changed, and she said she would continue to support the organization, but she needed, you know, she just couldn’t make it to meetings, and we knew that because she hadn’t been to meetings in like, a whole year that starts to hurt ford morale generally, i mean other board. Members who are making the time fine, making time making effort start to get resentful everything right? Holly? Yes. Okay, anything you want to add more about thie transitioning off boardmember i just sort of playing what you’re doing in terms of building up a younger constituency in my past job and now in the bronx museum, trying to build a board a parallel board. It’s called the leadership council, which conserve as a farm team for future board members and also as a retirement place for trustees. Who can’t you know, the financial onus is too great as trusting, but there’s a lesser amount expected as from a leadership council member. So it’s nice to have a transition. You’re keeping them in the fold, keeping them interested. But they don’t have all the responsibilities and duties of a trusting. Do we each have term limits for boardmember ship? No, none of you have term limits. Really that’s interesting. And that’s, you know, that’s. A very double edged thing. Because in my former job we had founder syndrome. You know trustees who had been there a long time. Really? Basically. So i ran the board de facto it’s very tough. And it really made me understand why term limits would be good. On the other hand, when you have donors who give these were our biggest donors, it’s very tough to give up financial support that they provide so that’s one motivating reasons to have this other board where they could go as well. Anybody thinking about adding board limits, we would like normal social. Yeah, we would like to add term limits, that’s something that we need to have a discussion with the board president and make some changes so that we’re hoping that we can implement that, then they’re coming here, ok, way happening had that discussion on at this point way have long serving board members who and she said, contribute and are active, and i don’t want to say goodbye to them because they’re valuable to the organization and we love them. So ish, as she said it, zo double in. Okay, we have about a minute left or so anybody want one talk about anything that i didn’t ask you about, that you’re it’s on your mind because you’re doing your seven or in a couple of hours about the board relationship hyre final final final thoughts? No, nobody. Okay, well, we’ll leave it there. All right, thank you. Oh, my god. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Say that. Remind listeners and viewers that holly bellows is chief development officer of helen keller services for the blind. And terry billy is director of corporate and foundation relations for goodwill industries of new york and new jersey. On up, of course. Alison looking for your name here? Alison? Sure. Now sorry. Director of external affairs in the bronx. Regime of the arts, ladies. Thank you very much. Thank you for sharing your experiences. Thank you for being with me. Tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand thirteen i love that roulette wheel in the in the background they were giving away the big prize was an ipad mini so i heard that in a bunch of interviews always nice to have a little little pleasant background music for an interview. And my thanks, of course. Also to the organizer’s at fund-raising day i’ve got some live listener love moscow in the russian federation and in china, taiwan, guangzhou, wuhan and beijing. Ni hao i’ve been to beijing and of into wuhan, also, and seoul in south korea, on yo haserot in japan, hiroshima, metallica and tokyo. Lovett konnichi wa there’s. Plenty of domestic live listeners will get to them in a couple of minutes. Right now, we go to a break when we come back, tony’s, take two, and then gene takagi, continuing our are all aboard day with back to board basics, do keep listening. They didn’t didn’t dick, dick tooting, getting dink, dink, dink, dink, you’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. Dahna good. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Hi, i’m ostomel role, and i’m sloan wainwright, where the host of the new thursday morning show the music power hour. Eleven a m. We’re gonna have fun. Shine the light on all aspects of music and its limitless healing possibilities. We’re gonna invite artists to share their songs and play live will be listening and talking about great music from yesterday to today, so you’re invited to share in our musical conversation. Your ears will be delighted with the sound of music and our voices. Join austin and sloan live thursdays at eleven a. M on talking alternative dot com. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Schnoll if you have big ideas but an average budget, tune into tony martignetti non-profit radio for ideas you can use. I do. I’m dr. Robert penna, author of the non-profit outcomes toolbox. And i’m dr tony martignetti and it is time for dr tony martignetti is take two. I just appointed myself phd since last week. They’re pretty easy to come by, so i figured, why go through the that the trouble? I’ll just name myself one my interview with beth cantor, which was on this show a couple of weeks ago. The video is now on my blogged you may recall, she is the author of the network to non-profit and measuring the network to non-profit we talked about riel online engagement and had a measure your success in your online efforts. That video is on my blogged at tony martignetti dot com, and i think i let you down. Last week i tried a new segment called out of the blue, and my intention was to bring things bring in people who have you are supporting non-profits but are doing work that’s not directly related to non-profits on dh sandora cats was the fermenter who are brought in, and he was terrific. He was delightful, but a zay was listening to him, and then i replayed it during the week, you know, i was kind of struck with why what? Is it why we listening? What does this have to do with non-profits it’s just not close enough to non-profits he supports non-profits um, but we didn’t talk much about that and that’s not really. Why you listen, is tto find out why people support non-profits i mean, at least not from one person’s perspective. S o we’re not goingto i’m not going to continue that out of the blue i what my intention was was to try to recognize that people who work in non-profits have lots of interests that have nothing to do with non-profits i read all the profiles of new twitter followers, and a lot of people comment on food that their food either to cook, ah, a lot of people coming on their kids, wine is a pretty popular one, different sports, so, you know, so that got me thinking people are multidemensional and maybe we should bring in some other dimensions besides non-profits and i thought a fermenter was a great place to start, but you have plenty of other podcasts, tens or hundreds of thousands of other podcast that you can go to to satisfy all those multidemensional interests that you have and i don’t think it’s right for me to try toe satisfy all those we have our niche here non-profits and picking the brains of experts to help people in non-profits that’s my mission here on this podcast, there’s plenty of other outlets for youto satisfy all those other interests that you have, so i think i let you down. We’re not going to continue out of the blue. We’re going tow. Focus more on on the core and that is tony’s take two for friday the today’s the ninth of august, the thirty second show of the year. I’m very happy to bring back jane takagi he’s, the principal of neo the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco he edits the very popular non-profit law blogged dot com and on twitter he is at gi tak gt a k welcome back, jean takagi. Hi, tony it’s. Great to be back. Thank you. I can tell you’re smiling i couldjust always telling you i could tell when you’re smiling. It’s ah it’s. Wonderful to have your energy even from san francisco. I feel it great. I’m conveying that over the phone. You absolutely are. Yes, we started this. Conversation back to board basics two weeks ago, july twenty six so you can go back and listen to that if you missed it, jean and i are going to pick up where we left off, and that was with term limits. Question of whether there should even be term limits. What’s your what’s what’s the advice around that gene. Well, first piece advice tony’s to check with your state laws because individual state laws may vary. My understanding is that under in most states, that there are no term limits, meaning that a boardmember could get reelected onto the board over and over and over again, without any restriction of the law, unless the organization’s by-laws say otherwise. So then it depends upon the individual board thinking about, well, what are the good things about keeping board members on potentially forever? Versace? What is the good thing about limiting how long any boardmember serves so we can get new people onto the board? Increased our diversity on pursue other things and other perspective. So that’s kind of the starting point, but i’m wondering, tony. What? What do you feel about board term limits if you’re serving on the board? I’m i’m pretty pro term limits. Um, in fact, i was just on a phone call this morning with someone who works at the gnu heimans center she’s an instructor there, and i mentioned that you and i are going to talk about this very subject and she said has to be bored limits has to be, yeah, i like them, i think that they they boardmember could be extended if it’s a two year term or three term, you can always extend in addition on additional term tua boardmember but after four or six or maybe even eight years, nine years, i think boardmember tze get a little stale and i’d like a fresh perspective and i think there’s other things that boardmember khun do we don’t kill them just because they leave the board, they don’t die there’s other things there’s other ways they can help that’s such a great point, tiny, and i agree with you a hundred percent, i’m there are exceptions, but i’m very much generally in the pro term limit kapin with without term limits, i think you can encourage very insular boards that get stale as you said, they could become rubber stamp. Boards just going with the flow, you may not be able to attract additional skills and perspectives of the same people are staying on the board, and you’re not bringing new people in boardmember khun get very entitled about their positions and start toe slack off a little bit, and it becomes very difficult to remove long term board members politically speaking into from a sense of relationships and when you have term limits, it really encourages bringing in those new perspectives and thoughts and skills. But the best thing you know is to make sure that when you bring in new people that you’re really engaging them and not just bringing them as tokens so that that becomes very important too. But i like your ideas of, you know, just reelecting, you know, the board members who are performing really well don’t re elect the board members that are performing poorly or unable to attend the majority of the meeting and see exactly how many terms you feel would be sufficient before you could bring in new people. The previous segment was all about keeping boardmember sze engaged from the beginning getting, you know, identifying what their passions are. So these these two segments are discussion, and the the pre recorded panel discussion are fitting together very well. Now i asked each of those three panelists if any of them had board term limits on in in their non-profits and none of them did, and one of them express the concern that their board members are major donors and they don’t want to, you know, the way she said it, they don’t want to say goodbye to them, but i do think there a said there are other things that board members khun do maybe there’s, an advisory board or something that’s, not a fiduciary capacity, legal, legal, legal duty capacity, but still meaningful and not frivolous. Yeah, i think is individuals tonny it’s natural that we like to get our egos stroked a little in there for a major donor to a non-profit to be asked to leave the board can be, uh, a difficult thing for both parties, but i agree again one hundred percent with you let’s find other rules for them. And advice report doesn’t seem to sound prestigious, but maybe emeritus board oh, it’s latin oh, that’s latin brings immediate prestige. Yeah, obviously. Okay. You know, we can we can play around with the titles of the committees and even the titles of the individual board members or former board members if we really value their contribution, we continued to engage them but have been take a term off the board and maybe if we’re not if the board is struggling to recruit and can’t find somebody, teo, take the place of the departing boardmember after term off, maybe that person can come back on again. So that may depend upon each organization but that’s, the that’s, the putin model of boardmember ship you depart and then you come on. All right, all right, well, if we’re going to implement terms, then we should talk about how long those terms should be. What, um, is there is probably not state law guidance on that kind of that. That kind of detail is there. There actually is. So there is among state laws. So some state laws, like in california, we say if you have voting members, the maximum length of a term is four years. If you don’t have voting members who elect the board, the maximum term length is six years and that’s that’s just for one one term, but doesn’t wait. I’m confused by that doesn’t every boardmember have a vote aren’t all board’s voting boards? Well, so in terms of voting members like in the auto club or a homeowner’s association where members who are not board members elect the board members? Oh, i see ok, yeah, so a lot of operations a lot, but many organizations have voting membership structures, which are much, much more administrative, burdensome and difficult to maintain, so i typically don’t recommend that for smaller public charity type organizations, but for other organizations that do have voting members, they’re subject to different, or they may be subject to different term length rules under state laws. So be careful of that there’s also a special on california that i think maybe in other states as well. That says ifyou’re by-laws and articles don’t define what a term length is it’s automatically set that one year, so many organizations get tripped up on that. They didn’t contemplate that in their by-laws and they let boardmember stay on until the board members feel like, you know they want to resign, and you’ve got to make sure that the elections are going on on a regular basis, just sort of on the side, the by-laws air are so important because our don’t state laws have lots of defaults for by-laws being silent on different issues, absolutely. Tony, you’re one hundred percent right? So if if you’re by-laws don’t contemplate something than the default will be, whatever the state could end up with a lot of things you didn’t even know you had, right? And now imagine if you’ve got a board that didn’t do proper elections and you’ve got one boardmember who voted the opposite way from everybody else and then says, well, it doesn’t matter that it was ten against one, this sport isn’t properly compose. I challenge the validity of that action that that one thing can trip up the whole board until they solve that issue. Okay, okay, so we just have, like, a minute and a half or so before a break different term, you know, i guess obviously the shorter the term, the fresher the board is going to be, but you’re going to lose, you know, institutional knowledge. Yeah. And so what is the expectation when you recruit a boardmember if you recruit a new boardmember and you say the term length is one year, they make oh, yeah, easy commitment, but they made me feel very good about serving that one year before they really got you know the organization and develop a director for that organization and then leave after one year feeling fulfilled. Meanwhile, the organization may not be very satisfied with just the one year term. Human three year are probably more common, but some lawyers actually liked the one year term because it allows boards to get rid of or shed. Directors are really not performing very well ever failing to attend meetings, failing to live up to their produce, very duties where it otherwise might be a little bit complicated. Relationship wise toe formally remove. All right, so you can get you could get rid of the trouble quickly on. You could just continue to reappoint them. And i guess if you had one year terms, you probably want they’re to be many possible successive terms allowed. Yeah. You might set your term limits that something like four or five in that case? Yeah. Okay. All right. We’re going to go away for a couple minutes, of course. Jean stays with me and hope that everybody else does, too. And we’ll get some live listener loving as soon as we come back. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Oppcoll oppcoll are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Oppcoll have you ever considered consulting a road map when you feel you need help getting to your destination when the normal path seems blocked? A little help can come in handy when choosing an alternate route. Your natal chart is a map of your potentials. It addresses relationships, finance, business, health and, above all, creativity. Current planetary cycles can either support or challenge your objectives. I’m montgomery taylor. If you would like to explore the help of a private astrological reading, please contact me at monte at monty taylor dot. Com let’s monte m o nt y at monty taylor dot com. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Gotta live listener love all over the country mesa, arizona golden, colorado in daytona beach, florida live listener loved to you, newport, north carolina and brooklyn, new york live listener love podcast pleasantries gotta send those out, especially to germany, where there’s a big subset of podcast listeners and if you are a podcast listener and you want some podcast pleasantry sent directly to you, let me know who you are, you know there’s ah there’s, facebook, there’s, twitter, there’s a contact page on my block. Let me know where you’re listening from, and i will send you those podcast pleasantries. Always great for the for the live listeners as well. Jean, what if we had a hybrid? What if we what if we make the first term one year? I kind of like this one term one year term, and i’ve really thought about it until you mentioned and we started talking about this topic. What if you had a first term is one year and then successive terms are two years or maybe three years? Could you do that? Yeah, absolutely. Tony there’s there’s actually a lot of room in the by-laws if you decide if the board decides it wants to spend some time to create the right structures. You could do something like, like, one year for your first term. And if everybody gets along in this thing well, to do the second term of two or three years and that might be sort of communicated to prospective board members with the understanding that the first years kind of that test period. Although everybody has their fiduciary duties to live up to. But they hope that they’ll be continued service after after that term. All right, so it also doing my classes, tony? So we could have different classes of attorneys or different classes of directors? Sorry. Lawyers? Yes, yes, everybody. The whole world is attorneys. Everybody knows that the world revolves around the all of them. And then they’re just two or three people out there who are not lawyers. Yeah. Further embarrassed, not you. You’re welcome. So, yes, we could have different classes of directors out there in some classes of directors. Could have a two year term. Some might have a three year term. Some might be prone to term limits of two term limit. Some might be subjected to classes, but how? You gonna decide how you decide who’s in which class, when i have tears and and the senior the three year member is going to look down on the lonely one year members? How you going to make those distinctions? Yeah, really top i mean, this is these air possibilities that you, khun contemplate the sea if they would fit within your organization, but yeah, creating different respect levels for remembers, but absolutely be wrong. So i understand your caution there about forming classes and maybe classes is not the right word now, but still different to you, even tears. Or, you know, however you however you euthanize it. It’s still g. She got a three year term and i only get a one year term. Why is that? We often do that originally with brand new organizations to get staggered board. So if you have a two year term and you start the initial board members everybody in two years, everybody turns off at the same time. But by staggering it, having some served three years in some serve two years and sometimes that’s done just by lottery. Believe it or not, ok, that won’t can get half the board being elected each year, i guess if it’s random, then then i could see you’d overcome at least the personality or ego concerns. All right, but what? So what are your recommendations around term limits? What is gene takagi like? I generally like to the three year term limits, although i’m not opposed to what you just suggested about having a one year initial terms and then two or three year terms after i do think that it’s important to get that commitment from directors, that it’s not just going to be this one year where we’re expecting you to serve for one year and then you can jump off and serve on another board, i’d like to see a longer term commitment and deeper bond created between the organization and its director. Okay, now, when you’re talking to non-profit clients do do they ask you, what should we do on then? Do you deflect that back to them, or how does that how do you finish that? Yeah, it’s a good question, tony, you know, i can’t get to paternal about it and just tell people what the best practices, so we have to make sure that it fits what their individual facts and circumstances are not if they’re three, you know, founders of the organization that want to be on the board and are going to champion other people, the recruitment of other people, perhaps those three founders, they’re goingto have longer terms uh then then the subsequent boardmember is that get brought on, but it really depends because we don’t want to create that class hyre key system that you suggested before, so we’ll have to take a look at stuff like that. Very careful, okay, it xero only is individual and look, look at gene is not a paternalistic attorney, one of the few you said it, so i’m sure he’s not, um, let’s, let’s look att since we’re talking about being on a board and being removed from aboard, should there be automatic removal if you’re not not performing up to snuff? Well, removal for not performing up to snuff is going to require a board decision and that’s going to be governed by state laws well, and even if state law permit sports to remove poor performing directors, practically speaking it’s, so hard to do, especially if that boardmember is also a donorsearch otherwise, support organization in other ways what we like to see is an automatic removal provisions, but only for failing to attend board meetings. So for example, if there was, you know, the board meeting’s every two months, if you fail to attend three successive board meetings without an excuse that had been approved by the board, even either before or after the fact you are automatically removed without further board action, so the board doesn’t actually have to vote to remove you. You’ve just automatically been removed, and they called me allow that. Okay, of course, then you’d want to go a little further and define does attendance mean live attendance in in person? Or can it be attendance by phone? I think it’s the state laws permit by phone than and the by-laws permitted as well, and most state laws, i would say, would permit it by phone, then you’re fine. I would count that as attendance, but if you just failed to show up at all and then it’s something else and it may be whether you’re sick or you’re you’re on sabbatical or have a valid excuse that the board is willing to say where we’re going toe not apply this removal rules because of this exception, but then the board approves to save a person they don’t approve. They don’t vote to remove a person, which is much, much harder. Yes. Ok, i see. All right, just about a minute or so before we go. What about having young people on boards if it’s appropriate to your mission? But in certain states, including new york, they have provisions for having young people onboard. Youth onboarding i think in new york you have to be above sixteen years old, and only organizations that served used or deal with issues like education or juvenile delinquency are allowed to have such boardmember okay, other states there expressly not allowed, you must be eighteen in order to do it, but most states i think forty states are silent on the issue now, it’s great to engage in engagement is the key word again. You to participate with boards and maybe having them entitled toe participate in board meetings is a great idea latto have them on the board and giving them fiduciary duties can be a little bit more problematic if you’re going to do that and there may. Be some rare exceptions where i think that that’s okay, you want to make sure that they’re not tokens and that their contributions are valid and their vote is equal to anybody, anybody? Else’s, vote on that board, you’ve got to be very careful now you can probably be held liable for breaching their fiduciary duties, although that’s not very clear, and if it was really agreed, just perhaps they could, and they can’t sign contracts on behalf of the organization because they probably wouldn’t be enforceable. So be careful about having that emily chan, my former colleague wrote a great block post called youth boardmember khun miners serve on a non-profit board that that i recommend for any organization considering having having young people on their board. Jean, we have to stop there. Is that? Is that blood post at on your block? It non-profit latto block dot com it is, and it was also captured in a non-profit quarterly article as well. Okay, thank you very much, gene. Great, thanks. Durney pleasure you confined gene at that non-profit law blogged or at g tack on twitter next week a fund-raising day interview we’ll start and then maria semple is here she’s, our prospect research contributor and the prospect finder the overhead myth show his book i got the three ceos who signed the overhead myth letter are going to be with me on september sixth. That’s, the ceo of better business bureau wise giving alliance guidestar and charity navigator, and ken berger from charity navigator has been on the show before. I would love to have your questions for these three ceo’s these three signers of the overhead myth letter you know you can ask questions on twitter, through facebook or contact page on my blogged love to have your questions for these ceos, please insert sponsor message over nine thousand leaders, fundraisers and board members of small and midsize charities. Listen each week you can reach me on the block or on twitter or facebook if you want to talk about sponsoring the show, our creative producer was clear meyerhoff sam liebowitz is the line producer. The show’s social media is by deborah askanase of community organizer two point oh, and the remote producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is john federico of the new rules. Oh, i hope you will be with me next week, friday. One to two eastern at talking alternative broadcasting at talking alternative dot com miree i didn’t think that shooting a good ending. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Get in. E-giving cubine are you a female entrepreneur? Ready to break through? Join us at sexy body sassy sol, where women are empowered to ask one received what they truly want in love, life and business. Tune in thursday said. Known eastern time to learn timpson. Juicy secrets from inspiring women and men who, there to define their success, get inspired, stay motivated and defying your version of giant success with sexy body sake. Soul. Every thursday ad, men in new york times on talking alternative dot com. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you, too? He’ll call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight, three that’s two one two, seven to one eight, one eight, three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com. We look forward to serving you. You’re listening to talking alt-right network at www. Dot talking alternative dot com, now broadcasting twenty four hours a day. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio friday’s one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication. And the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office need better leadership? Customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. 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072: LinkedIn Lovers & Your Board Can Fundraise – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Posted on December 27, 2011 by Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Geri Stengel, principal of Ventureneer; Marc Halpert, principal of Your Best Interest; and Maria Semple, The Prospect Finder

Dennis Miller, principal of Dennis C. Miller Associates

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Dahna hello and welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent i am your aptly named host it’s friday, december twenty third, two thousand eleven i sincerely hope you were with me last week because if not, you screwed up, you would have missed facebook fundamentals with john hayden principle of inbound zombie and co author of facebook marketing for dummies he covered getting your non-profit on facebook had a start had a facebook fund-raising attract fans and integrate with your other channels, you would have also missed your fresh faced website are regular tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, scott koegler shared his thoughts on your freshened up website when different handup are you on message? Trude emission, do you have your call to action this week? It’s linked in lover’s jerry stengel principle of venture near mark halpert principle of your best interest and maria simple, the prospect finder and our regular prospect research contributor show their love tto linked in for research, branding, donors and volunteermatch judgment, recruiting board members and more that was recorded at national philanthropy day, hosted by a f p of westchester county, where we were a media sponsor, and also today your board can fundraise dennis miller principle of dennis c miller associates a lot of principles on today they’re three principles, so you’re gonna get your knuckles smacked if you’re not paying attention. Dennis c miller a dennis miller principle of dennis similar associates is going to help you motivate your board for fund-raising with training, proper expectations, meaningful experiences, leadership and mohr and that was also recorded at national flandez b day between the guests on tony’s take two my block this week is say thank you before you have to make your gratitude sincere, not out of embarrassment. Talk more about that on tony’s take two. We’re live tweeting the show. Use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter. This show is supported by g grace corporate real estate services, and we are grateful for their support. Right now we take a break and when we return linked in lovers, so stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Dahna are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police crawl. Offset. Two, one, two, nine, six, four, three, five, zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio i have for you now a pre recorded interview linked in lovers from national philanthropy day just about two months ago. Three people expert in lincoln sharing their love on lincoln on here is that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of national philanthropy day. We’re at the edith macy conference centre in briarcliff manor, new york, hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals westchester chapter was just a county chapter, and joining me now is mark halpert, managing partner of your best interest. Jerry strangle, president of venture near and maria simple, principal of the prospect finder and you’ll know maria because she’s, a regular contributor to the show there are seven our topic today at national flandez every day is linked in jerry single why is linked in why does it deserve a ah seminar old by itself? Why not general social media? So i’m going to first tell you what lincoln is not, and that’s not a stodgy place to put your resume. What it is is a research database of one hundred and thirty five million affluent influential people that you khun b, you know, approaching for donations. So you’re so you’re saying we can use lincoln as ah, a research tool? Absolutely. Absolutely so it’s it’s. Very simple to search. You’ve gotta form. You’re filling out geography, industry title passion. What klaus is people are interested in and you draw up a list of people that you’re connected. Tio okay, mark. Mark albert, are there other uses for for non-profits and linked another than the prospect research was ability wise? Yeah, sure. What you want to do in lincoln is you want to fill out the profile completely and thoughtfully with the right terms. The right words know what sections of lincoln’s profile are searchable. So you can get found when people are actually searching for you? Yes. And they want to go one step farther than that. And you want to make your entire organization your tire non-profit people in the non-profit and the non-profit itself look as good as you can. Everybody, uniformly. Okay, so we’re we’re scrutinizing all our employees linked in profiles. Is that what you mean for your co-branding it’s? Part of branding. You have to have the right brand, everybody. Has to tell the right story if you have the executive director who doesn’t tell the story, but the people underneath him or her who do tell the story of a disconnect, and we see that a lot with non-profits we’re trying to work with non-profits to understand this is a total package for the entire organisation, but its fundamentals are the people themselves everybody’s gotta look really good, maria simple. Well, we’re talking about prospect research, and we’ll go into more detail on that co-branding what’s another reason that non-profits should be involved in lincoln? Well, you know, you can make an awful lot of great connections in terms of looking for additional donors, allied professionals, board members for the organization so it’s really a treasure trove, rove of trying to connect with some people who are out there right in your own communities, if you are community based organization and you can do searches filtered right down to a specific zip code. For example, if you’re looking for people with a specific expertise or an interest in the type of programming and services that you provide, what can we do around allied professionals? First let’s tell people who want to keep you out of jargon jail, but i mean, if you’re if you’re in drug in jail, you’re not going to come back and be on the show again, so keep you out of there. What do you mean when you say allied professionals first? Well, allied professionals might be, for example, if you are unorganised ation like the civil liberties union, for example, you might be looking to connect with mohr attorneys right in the in your community who could be potentially great volunteers and board members for your organization. So this would enable you to identify some of those professionals in your communities who can help benefit your organization, not only perhaps, with their time, but with their money as well on dh, how do we find them? Well, there is an advanced search page on linked in and s o it is right next toothy search the general search box, you click on advanced search and you’ll come up with a whole new page to do the searching. Now this is free, by the way. We’re not talking about a fee based portion of lincoln. The advanced searches are free and the data results are really quite amazing, mark, you talkto about branding and and uniformity let’s say a little more about that cause i think it’s an aspect of social media that that non-profits aren’t paying that much attention to their thing about their message going out, but they’re not thinking about what they look like as they’re conveying messages. Well, one thing about lincoln it’s really unique, and i think it’s separates it from facebook, where a lot of non-profits are really doing a lot of work that lincoln is the audience. A lincoln is a professional man and woman who look at lincoln all day long in their business day. They might not look att facebook till they get home if they even do that in the evening so people can look at lincoln and commit to each other, work with each other, communicate with each other i have non-profits that exclusively used lengthen as their communication with their constituents. For example, a school in stanford, connecticut, they realise that all the parents in their school are professional so they don’t mess with facebook. They go directly to lengthen to have their parent teacher organization communications go out so it can really depends on who you’re trying to attract and how to convey the information. It’s branding, it’s specific, targeted communication skills and it’s, just a tremendous tool. It gets better and better every day. I think there’s new attributes toe linked in like two or three times a week, where they’re taking something they’ve had for about three or four years, and they’re just tweaking it a little more. This week. They tweaked events last week. They tweet some parts of your profile that you probably never even knew. You had to fill out our could fill out it’s there’s places to go in tow, lengthen that are not completely obvious. That’s, what the three of us do. We’re going to show in our seminar today where to find all this good stuff e-giving ending, ending e-giving. You’re listening to the talking alternate network e-giving. You could are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall. This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Hi, this is psychic medium. Betsy cohen, host of the show. The power of intuition. Join me at talking alternative dot com mondays at eleven a. M call in for a free psychic reading learned how to tune into your intuition to feel better and to create your optimum life. I’m here to guide you and to assist you in creating life that you deserve. Listen. Every monday at eleven a, m on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Lively clamber station top trends, sound advice, that’s. Tony martignetti, yeah, that’s. Tony martignetti non-profit radio. And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. Dahna and i’m tony martignetti one of those commercials you heard was betsy cohen, psychic, medium that’s, he’s going to be a guest on the show on friday, february tenth, and what is a psychic medium going to do with respect to non-profits? You will have to stay tuned. If you really want to know in advance, then you can always sign up for our email alerts weekly email alerts on the facebook page. But, yes, we’re gonna have a psychic medium. Betsy will be a guest. You’re listening to my interview with jerry stengel, mark halpert and maria simple, linked in lovers from national philanthropy day at the a f p, westchester county. Yeah, if the westchester county and here’s the rest of that interview jimmy jerry what’s some of that job so excited by the good stuff on lengthen, i’m going, jerry strangle jimmy, jimmy she’s a gem, but that’s not her name. So we’ll share some of these hidden treasures in lengthen. So actually, i want to take a step back and talk a little bit about some research that engineer conducted over the summer and it’s going to be coming out within the next few weeks. Lengthen is the most underutilized and underappreciated big social media among non-profits and yet it has the greatest potential. So if you were to look at small businesses versus non-profits use of link in among socially active non-profits it’s about fifty percent using length in versace for small businesses, that’s about seventy percent. And among power users people that really, really use all social media extremely well, it’s eighty percent if you look a thie effectiveness rating non-profits have a very effective rating of eleven percent versus power users, which are thirty nine percent so a dramatic increase and the reason is that non-profits don’t get what lincoln really is and that that is a research database, so maybe seven percent of non-profits or using it it’s, a research database vs power users, which it’s about forty four percent and very few about not very few, but about a quarter of non-profits using length in to get an introduction vs power users, which i think is about fifty three percent, this is this is all very interesting cause we’re using we’re talking about using linkedin for branding for prospect research, but also for research beyond prospect research, this advanced search that maria was talking about him and the effectiveness reading that you’re talking about jerry. Now, how is this effectiveness rating determined? What does that mean? Really? So it was self reporting, it was a four point scale of of of the number one would be very effective and number four would be not at all effective. So, you know, whoever was answering the survey got to rate themselves and say i am very effective at linked in or i’m not very effective at lengthen, and if you look at other social media, facebook and twitter had much, much higher ratings and it’s that again non-profits aren’t getting powerful uses of linked in which you can use it to find board members. You can use it to find staff, you can use it to find strategic alliances. It’s not just about finding donors, maria simple, most underutilized yet most promising social media property. I would agree i would agree wholeheartedly with that, you know, i when i’m talking to a nonprofit organization about their presence in the social media landscape, for example, we don’t discount to the other avenues of social media. But then once we get into a discussion about what, what lincoln khun do, not only for you professionally but for your organization in terms of your organizations, growth, etcetera and brand matter-ness you know, in addition to having the individual profile pages of an individual, i think it’s important to note that there are the business pages, the company pages and non-profits can have a free, as they call it company page on linked in again, there you are being exposed in a professional environment toe other business professionals. And why not? Why not have a presence in that space as well as mark indicated about the search ability? You want to make sure that you have certain keywords there for search engine optimization, etcetera. So this is an opportunity for you to take advantage of another free tool to have not only your professional profile there but your organization’s business profile. Your organizational profile work. Where do we find this business page, or how does an organization find the place to create it’s business page? But i don’t think this is widely known no it’s, really not widely known, and in fact, it’s just been expanded considerably in the past couple of weeks. I just finished a five piece log piece on how non-profits can really blow out there. Not other company profile page, uh, it’s it’s, several layers deep it’s not just filling out forms it’s about thinking and using the peace of the web that is lincoln’s company profile page in an intelligent way, and telling the story of the non-profit what is the non-profit do? What of the products for the services of the non-profit offers and then under those products and services layers, talk about in detail. What does it do? How is it of any use? Why is it a compelling place for somebody wanted no more about it or give money to it? And then you can even recommend certain products or certain services of the non-profit right on the linked unpaid, so it builds. I built a lot of attention, it’s searchable. It builds a lot more credence to what the non-profit does than it normally doesn’t. Often these not these non-profits are suffering with really poor websites, and this makes the website less important, and it puts more eyes on lincoln. Where do we go to find this house non-profit leaders going to linked in islington dot com? But here she is in their own personal profile. Where do they go from there? Are you able to talk them through to find the place where they start to create their own business page? Sure, when you go into your when you land on linked in your in your home page at the top right of the home page, there’s a search box and there’s a downward pointing arrow that’s right now probably says people as you’re looking at your website because that’s at your lincoln site that’s really where, where it defaults to click where it says comes down to it, says companies on the dropdown, click companies, and then you can type in a search for any company that has a linkedin page. If it comes up with no linkedin page, which many non-profits test to see who has done this for us have have we haven’t done it, then you can add a company profile page. Think about how you add the pictures of graphics, the logo, the language, how you’re conveying your non-profit do you need help? Do you need money? Are you looking for something and ask? Don’t be afraid to tell business professionals we’re really folks, this is where the money is right now in this type of economy, ask for the help you need. Mark alpert is managing partner of your best interest jerry stengel is president of venture near maria simple is principal of the prospect finder and a regular contributor to the show, and we’re talking about linked in at the national philanthropy day hosted by the, uh, association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter jerry volunteers hyre hyre can we use advanced search to help find people who are likely or even just possible volunteers for our organization? So i’m so glad you asked that question because linkedin just pretty pleased with myself. Now that since you said it all, i’ll reveal my own pleasure with it, so lengthen just added a new feature for volunteer experience and causes, so i really want to urge every volunteer every non-profit fresh inal to fill out that those fields within their profile, because that’s, the way that a non-profit is going to be able to find you, and you can be found for a non-profit that maybe you’re not aware of, but it is in your sweets, but in the claws of the passion that you really care about, so you’re encouraging an organization to encourage their they’re volunteers to fill out their volunteer section knew volunteers section and their own personal profiles that right? Correct. So i really want to encourage a non-profit to encourage every management person, all staffers, all volunteers, including and most especially board members, to fill out and blow out their profile on more specifically to fill out that volunteer experience and cause section markers were encouraging volunteers, everyone in this in the all the constituents to do this, as jerry just said, how can we ensure that there’s going to be consistency across all these different profiles in the way they describe their work or they’re volunteering with our non-profit how can we ensure consistency? Well, someone on the non-profit staff needs to have ownership of the company profile page and tell the folks who work in the non-profit or that our volunteers or a board members, the message that the organizations the whole wants to convey, each person can put that into their own words, but let’s be consistent in the eventual message that’s being put out there. The wonderful thing about lincoln is throughout the profile that you individually have you khun say in so many ways, how really special you are how people need to know more about you, there’s nothing wrong with saying that today’s social economy. So tell people how you stand out from the crowd and if you’re really pay proud of the non-profits you work for or work in, tell them how you and your non-profit stand out in the crowd, it’s simple. You just have to think it through, write you would stop short, then of of scrip eating on, giving specific language, you wouldn’t go that far. You really wouldn’t want to go there know that that becomes too stilted. I think the one thing about social media is it’s a very natural to very from the gut type of thing of expression, and this is a way that you need to tell the same message, but you need to say it in your own words. I really encouraged my clients to really express who they really are as opposed to tow a line. Maria, do you have more advice around what you’re encouraging volunteers and employees and other other constituents that are close to the organization to say in their own linked in profile? Now, i do. You know, i concur, though, with both mark and jerry, that this is an opportunity for the non-profit again to get their name out there, because if let’s say you have between your board and your core base of volunteers, let’s say you’ve got one hundred people right that’s, one hundred ambassadors for your organization that if they on their own individual profiles, indicate that they are a volunteer with x y z organization. Then again, it’s another place on the web where your organization name is mentioned. So, you know again, it’s is just getting out there getting that exposure, so it’s an opportunity for you to have yet another free venue to have to get your name out there. What else, maria? That that i haven’t asked about linked in that you’re going to be bringing the three of you going to be bringing out in your seminar later, pretty much covered it. Mark and jerry, have we left anything out? So there’s one point that i want to make and that’s our non-profits complain the most about the amount of time that social media takes and how are users? Interestingly, spend the most time twenty five hours a week on social media do not complain at all about the time because they’re getting the value out of it. And the last point that i want to make is when i got into social media, the easiest one for me to do was length in, and it was the least time intensive, so i think you’ll get the most out of length in as a non-profit what’s been your experience, geri what? What kind of payoff have you seen from? From link from the time you do spend on lincoln, i get a lot of traffic directly to venture near. Which provides webinars and free education. Okay, mark, about your what’s been your your return? I guess on lengthen. Well, i i have another business in aside from being a linked in coach and i get business, i book business actually into that business from people who find me a lincoln or refer me through lincoln. I just booked up good size piece of business out of san francisco this past week from it. One thing i want to add to a jury saying, yeah, you can think it’s time consuming, but an investment in you there’s no better person to invest in in your personal brand than to use linked in and keep commenting on things that you said that you read in information you want to convey, give more than you receive. Pay it forward talk about items that are of interest to your articles. You’ve read in a headline update, and people will remember goods stuff that you share with them, and then you’re in their eyes again and again, and people come to me and say, oh, i just saw your update. I forgot i needed to talk to you, then i think i’m back on the radar again, it’s. Wonderful, your personal page and your business. And the organization is not sitting well, maria, anything? What has been your return on the time you spend on lengthen? You know, i think for me, lincoln has really kind of served as my my repository for managing contacts. You know, we talk about all these fancy give contact management systems and so forth, but in terms of me as a business owner, if i meet somebody at at a networking event or at a conference like today and if we exchanged business cards, if that person does not have a presence on linked in, unless that person is going to make an extremely extraordinary effort to stay in touch with me, it will probably drop off, however, were on linked in. Then i’m occasionally seeing their updates, their post there seeing mine. And we’re staying front and center with each other in this world that is just so incredibly harried and fast. So again, it’s it’s an opportunity. I think mark touched upon sharing of information. It’s a wonderful way for you two if you can. As a non-profit executive, this is what i tell non-profit executives. If you can at least once a week once a week, have something intelligent to say on your update box, you may have an article to share that you’ve read elsewhere. You don’t have to make it up yourself if you’re speaking somewhere. If your organization has an event, you’re sponsoring something, this is an opportunity for you to get the word out, so that update box is phenomenal and we’ll help you can’t keep your network in the loop with what’s going on, the topic is the underutilized yet most promising of the social media properties, as jerry stengel said, linked in and the speakers are mark alpert, managing partner of your best interests. Jerry stengel is president of venture near and maria simple is principal of the prospect finder. Mark jerry maria, thanks very much for joining me. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. Been a pleasure. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of national philanthropy day at thie edith macy conference centre in briar cliff manor, new york, hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals westchester county chapter my thanks to those three linking lovers that linked in triumvirate we take a break now when we come back, it’s, tony’s, take two, and then my interview with dennis miller. Your board can fundraise, so please stay with me. You’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics. Politically expressed buy-in, montgomery, taylor and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Dahna hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com dahna welcome back to big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent on tony martignetti non-profit radio reminder that we are live tweeting the show use hashtag non-profit radio it’s time now for tony’s, take two at roughly thirty two minutes into the hour. My block this week is say thank you before you have to. I had a couple of businesses right and call me to thank me for being a customer of theirs, but they really weren’t showing genuine gratitude because my credit card had been canceled because the number got compromised. So these were a couple of businesses that i had automatic payment set up on, and i had for gotten about those on dh, you know, so they couldn’t get the money. So then all of a sudden they needed, you know, one of the number, and along with that request for my new number came how grateful they were to have my business. But i think at that point, it would’ve been embarrassing for them not to have said that because i had been a customer for three years with one of them and between five and six years with the other, so and that had never heard any expression of gratitude from either of them before that. So that got me thinking, you know, why? Wait until you have to say something to somebody like we need your way got to get back in your pocket to say thank you. Why not show gratitude at other times when it’s not embarrassing to not show the gratitude? And i think that has implications for fundraisers and that’s what my block post is about. So say thank you to people, whether their donors or colleagues or loved ones, whatever before you really have to say thank you, because then it’s really genuine that is tony’s take two for friday, december twenty third, and you’ll find the more on that subject on my block at m p g a devi dot com i have an interview now also from the association of fund-raising professionals westchester chapter national flats every day, and this is with dennis miller. Your board can fundraise here’s that interview welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of national philantech thirty day where the edith edith macy conference centre in briar cliff manner, new york, were hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals westchester county chapter my guest now is dennis miller he’s, the president of dennis c miller associates. He works with leaders of non profit organizations who want a more motivated and cohesive board, and his seminar topic is how to engage and motivate your board to participate in fund-raising dennis miller, welcome, welcome, tony, thanks to be here, what’s the challenge that you see among non-profits in getting their board to do fund-raising it’s a combination of these probably the basic premise behind why boards are we’re looking to get engaged is because they don’t have the confidence we don’t do a very goodjob when we’re recruiting board members to explain up front of what we want, what we expect of them. Ah, and then the second thing is we have unrealistic expectations off our boards, we think just because we now have recruited the president, the bank, well, the vice president, business development to join our board that they know about fund-raising and they don’t, so this is both an art and a science, and i have to be taught it the other thing which i talk about, let me just stop you for sex so they might be very sophisticated in their practice in their business, very successful, but that doesn’t mean that they know charitable fund-raising it doesn’t translate, you might be the best attorney mass marking person. It doesn’t translate the fund-raising and what i help my clients with tony and what i write about in my book is sort of the ten cup theory to the investment theory and the ten cups there goes something like this, and when i was a little boy, my mom took me to radio city music hall during the holiday season, and you had to kind of go through the port authority from new jersey. It was always a guy selling pencils and a ten cup when a leg looked like that one leg on some cardboard box, and most people perceived fund-raising as begging, um, and and the biggest fear they have is a sense of rejection. So most people are terrified of fund-raising because they see it as begging and rejection. And so how how we start to look before we get to breaking that breaking that down, let’s, start about talk about something that you you mentioned earlier, setting expectations for boardmember zoho where did when do? We start to set the expectations we need to start that, tony, when we begin to identify and recruit boardmember is not after when we are looking for board members. We need to be looking for up front, you know? They have the capability of being aboard leader don’t look for the board chair when the board chair steps down. Look for the time, recruitment is the same thing with philantech buy-in friendraising let him know the expectation, let him know the kind of dollar range you’re hoping for them to make a contribution for. Let him know what you’re kind of activities with special events or how to help him open up doors and cultivate, let you know, up front what is expected. We often fail to do that. We have a sort of the warm heart theory we’d rather get you want to board any price, even if we think, you know, we don’t want to make a fun of is it might scare you off the board that’s a big mistake, because fund-raising is a critical function of boards. It’s a huge mistake, and so we get into this situation where you know he went the development. Office becomes extremely unhappy because the board isn’t helping out. The board feels very frustrated with development office because he or she is not raising enough money comes out of a vicious cycle and it goes into these russian and round around again. Yeah. Do you like to see these expectations in writing? Oh, absolutely. I i believe it. This should be actually individual boardmember responsibilities that you actually sign when you come on the board, you should sign up for anything. Everyone time you have a new term, i think should be heavily discusses, part of border orientation at a board meeting, and you kind of build a culture of not just responsibility, but you build a culture of accountability and we a sector itself, generally speaking sort of failed to do that. All right? So let’s, go back to what we were. We were on the subject of begging, though. So how do we get people to recognise board members that this is is not begging. This is giving to ah, critical mission that you’re supposed that you’re in love with. What did i do? Tony is i asked a very simple question at a border treated at a board meeting. Tell me what your top achievements are. It is amazing to me how many organizations struggle to tell you what their achievements are. You know that. So you start with the process of getting people understand that why do people really give money? And they really give money now besides they give to people, though, because they’ve been asked to give to someone they trust respect. The two biggest changes have taken place in philanthropy over the past decade or so is people now give the success not the stress and they give the opportunity is not needs. So the key to success is to begin you organization and understanding. What are yu achievements? How do you measure success? What is the value? You’ve righted a community. How do you make a difference in lives of others? Are outcomes is another way of sound. How do you measure your outcomes? And what are they? And how do you measure them? Because it’s all now about investing in your success not about giving to you distress. And when you were in that mindset of the ten cup theory, the board is not going to be engaged. Your development dahna gay so what? I teach people in both my my speaking by lectures in my books and my consultation is is how to make that transition and part of it is is a process, but it’s, how do you find a meaningful experience for the board? How do you just move the board level of participation up from just being produced shares your teaching to being a partner in a leader? How do you keep newly re examine your mission and purpose? How do you constantly strive for success when board members feel responsible for your success? They’re more likely to be engaged, okay, let’s, break some of those down the meaningful experience. How do we now? We’ve recruited a boardmember we have hopefully set the expectations correctly about about around fund-raising and that’s what you and i are talking about motivating your board for fund-raising how do we make fund-raising meaningful for the new boardmember geever when i tell people talk to people and by the way, i mean, i did this. I’m a former ceo moflow boy chair, so i i’m i’m not just a consultant. I’ve done this for myself, so if we know we know. Your bona fide okay would have had you on a few repression in your credentials. My point to your listeners that yeah, i think it’s the job of the board chair and the job of the ceo to identify the talents, unique talents, each unique boardmember has tried to find some way of bringing out that talent, given some responsibility, find a way to engage them so they feel a partnership with you, not just handing out, you know, job, job, roles, responsibilities and put him in a little box that don’t cost my box. The key to success is moving a boardmember from the founding fiduciary strategic board, the one of leadership i think when you have a leadership board and their work with you and they’re sharing ideas and sharing experiences in asking questions, what exactly can become more engaged? How are we going to get to what they’re what they’re individual personalities and expertise is around fund-raising how do we get out of the ceo and the board chair? Assess what each person is going to be good at? Well, day is start again. It starts with your expectation of fun. Okay, you have to find out. Some people is it just a conversation? You just engage people? I think it’s a combination of process. It’s it’s what i tell people time you don’t put a ten year old up a bit but played a yankee stadium expect made a home run, we have to help people build their confidence is we’ve got to find small ways of building success, the more steps foot success. It helps build their self confidence, and i find it’s all about confidence building and and we need to do and what better job as ceos as board leaders and helping develop the compass and others? It’s not the people don’t want to do it so other people don’t want to help you raise money. They’re afraid too, and they’re not sure how to do it. But so it’s about the only self confidence they do want to help you because they love the mission. They want others to love it and they want to see it thriving. Absolutely so it’s it’s about how do we how do we help other people build conquered now? Everything that i’m sorry i cut you off. But that yeah, that the idea that i think. Is important is that every a person doesn’t have to be asking for a gift. I mean, aren’t there a lot of things around? Fund-raising and everybody doesn’t have to be sitting face to face and asking for a donation. I agree with that, but i mean, that’s scares to people the jitters when you ask himto you’re gonna be asking others for gift here, i actually don’t even sometimes i want my board to be asking, but when i want my board to do for me eyes too, i want to advocate for my mission. I want him to tell their friends and neighbors how proud they are to be part of the organization. I want them to help open up doors and helped cultivate relationships. That is the most important thing that i want i want what development officer seo wants us have the board helped cultivate relationships, and you do that, and you’ll do that when you really begin to feel passion about that mission and that’s the key that’s, the key to success it i’ll be the ceo, and i’ll ask him for the gift or someone else that knows him much, but may have been a gift. I want the board to help open doors and cultivate relationships. I also want them to help identify potential, give potential. I want him to write a little personal note on the annual appeal. Hey, tony, hope we can count on you for support again. Dennis. Uh, that’s, but i want my board people okay, we start off with this fear we you know, we immediately say we’ve gotto asking us. Forget for gas that’ll come in time. We certainly may want you to ask people for sponsorships for events which was all provoc comes their bottom line, but i’m not a big proponent of actually have the board do the asking until they are ready for it until they’re mature is boardmember until we’ve built up their confidence. So we let’s, let’s, let’s break some of these down opening doors. How how can a boardmember be helpful in making introduction open indoors, hosting events or just bringing people to the agency or what? Tony there a number way, certainly bringing a friend or a colleague to a special event and let him get a chance to see the organization meet some of the people your organization, so that’s very helpful. Number two is that when you were out a meeting? Um, uh, one of your board meeting. So when you’re at one of your membership meetings or in your country club over cocteau, tell people about how much he enjoyed being on this organization what’s going on, and then one of things that is great to be able to do is if you can host like, a cultivation event at your home, maybe for ten couples, you know, five couples, some wine and cheese. Ah, tell him about the organization. Tell me want to take on a come on? The tour introduced him to the president. It’s a it’s, a it’s, a relationship building its cultivation building. That is the ideal thing. If you ask most development office that’s what you got there, boy, we’re going to break those down into we’re gonna get into some more detail. I just want to remind people that dennis miller is the president of dennis c miller associates. He works with leaders of non profit organizations who want a more motivated and cohesive board on dh. Dennis and i are talking about motivating your board around fund-raising you mentioned assessing gift potential of aa prospect how would a boardmember help with that? Well, one the boardmember may have some sense of their home values, their wealth. They may know if they’re making political contributions, they may have an idea how they’re doing economically. Not so they can share that now. There’s, you know, beyond the scope of my discussion with you, tony, today and, you know, a lot of people like maria semple, others who’s sort of evaluate, you know, give potential for people in all the different software that are out there but a boardmember if they know someone probably has a fairly good idea of what they think that potential maybe, okay, maria simple, of course dennis mentioned is our regular prospect research contributor, and we’re also going to be talking to her later today on the subject of linked in which she’s covered on my show as a contributor. But she’s on a panel today talking about linked in what about thanking donors? You mentioned that board members could be useful in that respect, how lett’s flush that out. One of the best ways that i think to get bored, engaging fund-raising is a thank dahna what? I call a stewardship night, stuart. Tonight is where every boardmember may get five, maybe ten names and it’s scripted, and so if you made a gift when it’s one hundred dollars for a thousand dollars each, boardmember is it provided a a script of calling the donor and say, listen, hi, dennis miller, i’m on the board of whatever i want to thank you for the for the gift of one hundred dollars you gave this year because your gift we were able to do the following thing, do somewhere children, pediatrics or whatever, and what it does is connect you with the person. Therefore there people like to be acknowledged for the gifts and the more likely that you mouse and thank them, the more likely they are to attribute you in the future. It sounds like the sole purpose of that call is to say thank you. Thank you. And would you make another gift? Not a tournament, if you gotta. You gotta thank him. S oh, that’s. A big way. Yeah. You’re gonna mention another well, the the the other way is obviously is you know what, with little personal notes and little letters thanking him. Um and obviously, you know, that kind of a process, but you want to when you personally don’t, but if you don’t know, have the board divide up some names of donors and make that call that you absolutely do not want to thank him for the gift and ask him for a gift that defeats the whole purpose of okay, what about for ah, institutional fund-raising so when if the non-profits going after foundation or corporate support, how khun board members be useful there? Well, one of the ways that a boardmember, um, useful, that is first we’ll take a look at who’s on the board or who’s on the executive team of that corporation or foundation that you’re splicing from, it really helps if you can maybe identify someone to say, listen, i don’t know the person, but i know the firm they worked for, and i know someone who works for that firm, so maybe we could make an introduction that’s one way number two, the border be very helpful if they can review that foundation of that corporation, their website, along with the development officer, look at the criteria of why they’re e-giving too often people. Just send in grant applications without understanding the criteria. What they’re looking for. A good automatically, you know, neglected or rejected. So that’s, kind of where i think the boy remember all complain. Talking alternative radio, twenty four hours a day. Metoo hi, i’m carol ward from the body mind wellness program. Listen to my show for ideas and information to help you live a healthier life in body, mind and spirit, you’ll hear from terrific guests who are experts in the areas of health, wellness and creativity. So join me every thursday at eleven a, m eastern standard time on talking alternative dot com professionals serving community. This is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. Tony martignetti non-profit radio fridays one to two eastern on talking alternative broadcasting are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales or maybe better writing are speaking skills? Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes or get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com that’s improving communications, dot com improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier and make more money. Improving communications. That’s the talking all calm. Hi, i’m kate piela, executive director of dance, new amsterdam. And you’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio. Big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. Oh! And on tony martignetti non-profit radio your listening to my interview with dennis miller, your board can fundraise here’s the end segment of that interview. Okay, so it’s a flesh out the details of that you would actually be sharing with the board a list of organizations and people who are affiliated with that organization to see who knows who. Absolutely. Tony, what i would do is maybe identify the top ten corporations of foundation were trying to put into our package of solicitations for show who’s on the executive team, show who’s on your respective boards and ask people, did they know anybody? Or do you think they know somebody can get to somebody? It’s really helped? Well, two pride of submitting an application if you can build a relationship. What i have done in the past is obviously, is if i know the person on the corporation or the foundation ask if we could have a cup of coffee with my client, set up a little meeting, and then usually they will say, you know, we’re not focusing this year on that, but we’re focused on this so they can help. Much weaker, you know, picked from falls. A bit better. Is it appropriate to ask a boardmember tau host events or in their home, perhaps? Or is that going? Is that going beyond? No, i think that’s a responsibility. I don’t think it’s realistic that you’re gonna have everybody you ever border fifteen people, you know, they have two or three people a year. Maybe host a little event at their home. It doesn’t have to be. Some may know major gallop. A host of friends at their home barbecue. You know cocktails, hors d’oeuvres i that’s a great way. It’s. Everybody know everybody bring five or ten people. I mean that’s. Ah, i chaired the board of ah of st joseph regional high school in mont phil for a number of years. Shared their camp st joe’s. I grew up in altum pan. My friends went to st james so my son graduate. Oh five. And you know i have people come over my house was pretty cool because at the time, mayor rudy giuliani son went there. We had a cultivation at my house. We had one at major lee anne’s house in the city. And you know it brings people involved, engage and breaks. Breaks the walls and a little bit people were probably impressed with his home, but he doesn’t own that the taxpayers own it. So actually it’s gracie mansion, so don’t you know, let’s, let’s keep it he’s no longer the resident there ever was, and he never was the owner. He was in private residence at the time. You got a crazy man, okay? Hyre and that’s another way of helping to build confidence, i think cause you’re finding something that boardmember can easily do host a half a dozen or a dozen people in their home said i think, you know, i’m kind of go over this again, the biggest thing that we fail to do as ceos, developing directors of board members, we what i’m actually think because you’re depressed, thank you should be confident doing this and they’re not, you know, it doesn’t translate, so we have to help build that competent those organizations that spent some time and energy and investment and trying to build their confidence, the ones that have the boats, powerful success, long term success, increasing donors and increasing dollars in just a minute and a half that we have left are so don’t us, what about the recalcitrant boardmember now they’re on, they’re already on the board, and they’re just not willing to help with fund-raising in any of these respects, whether it’s hosting an event or asking people, they’re just not willing. Well, the biggest thing that i do with my clients is i look at the find out, particularly i do a lot of board governing board performance assessments, do you have a re appointment process and what you want to be able to do is listen, not everybody is going to be able to host a party. I do expect for my clients that every boardmember make a personal gift annually to the organization, not so much, you know, forgetting something returned like a golf batting or gala to make a gift subject to you means now again, if you go back to beginning conversation, we had tony if there’s expectations of the boardmember are clear up front and over a period of time, you have not lived up to your expectations than i would expect that person not to be reappointed aboard. Also talkto if you go to my web site www d c miller associates dot com i have a number of articles, one is about how and when the fire boardmember now, you know, i don’t take this lightly, but there’s a lot of different ways of how you can deal with these type of board members that have some type of disruptive behavior and don’t contribute. You mentioned you’ve written books, i’ll want to give you the opportunity to plug one of your books on dh then we have to go into the outro. My new book is called a non-profit board therapist. Ah, guy to unlocking your organization’s true potential it’s available online at barnes and noble amazon and what their house dot com thank you, tony. My pleasure. Dennis miller again is president of dennis c miller associates works with leaders of non profit organizations who wanted more motivated and cohesive board. Denis, thank you very much for being against tony. Thanks for having me well appreciated. My pleasure. You’re listening to our coverage of national philanthropy day hosted by the association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter my thanks to dennis miller and also jerry strangled mark halpert, maria simple for being guests that day and to the people the organizers of national philanthropy day, the association of fund-raising professionals, westchester county chapter next week there isn’t a show hope you enjoy your holidays, whatever holiday it is you celebrate, i hope you’re enjoying this weekend and new year’s next weekend and spending time with family and friends that’s really what? I think the holidays are best at his bring us together so enjoy that time in the new year on january sixth, i’m going to have three interviews from the next-gen charity conference author and stand up comic wally collins on motivation and living a regret list life. Charles best, the ceo of donors, choose dot or ge on connecting donors to the causes that they support. And abby falik, ceo of global citizen year on innovation and leadership, to create social change and also maria simple, the prospect finder, a regular prospect research contributor, will be with me. Keep up with what’s coming up, learn aboutthe show by signing up for our insider email alerts on our facebook page, become a fan of the show, click that like button, you can listen live our archive, you’ve completed the listening live, but if their shows you’ve missed and you want to catch an archive, you go to itunes, subscribe and listen any time on the device of your choice and your you’ll find us on itunes at non-profit radio dot net on twitter. You can follow me and use the show’s hashtag unabashedly it is non-profit radio follow us on twitter the show is sponsored by g grace corporate real estate services. They call themselves corporate real estate, but they do an incredible amount of work with non-profits if you’re worried about rising cost of rent, for instance, for your organization or you need to capitalize on real estate that you’re non-profit owns g grayson company provides you, and you’re bored with analysis so that real estate decisions are made with transparency and thoroughness. George grace has been advising non-profits on their real estate decisions for over twenty five years, you’ll find them at g grace dot com or eight eight eight seven four seven two two three, seven the creative producer of tony martignetti non-profit radio is claire meyerhoff, our line producer and the owner ofthe talking alternative broadcasting his sam liebowitz, a remote producer, is john federico of the new rules on our social media is by regina walton. Of organic social media. I hope you will be with me in two weeks. On friday, january sixth, for tony martignetti non-profit radio always one p m eastern at talking alternative dot com. You didn’t think to bring good ending things. You’re listening to the talking, alternate network, get anything. Good. Looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as filling as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten am for love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all. Tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Hi, i’m julie, hi, i’m julia, what are you wearing? Welcome to j and j’s. Secrets of style and beauty. We know there’s, beauty and style, and all you do, whether it’s a job interview, first date or wedding, we also know that not everyone understands what works best for him or her. We’re here to help. Think of us as your personal beauty style and grooming guru’s, as industry experts will give you the best information for men and women on howto look phenomenal. Tune in tuesdays at eight pm tto. Learn how to look your best. Are you fed up with talking points, rhetoric everywhere you turn left or right? Spin ideology, no reality, in fact, its ideology over in tow, no more it’s time for action. Join me, larry shot a neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven easter for the ivory tower radio in the ivory tower will discuss what’s important to you society, politics, business and family. It’s, provocative talk for the realist and the skeptic who want to go what’s really going on. What does it mean? What can be done about it? So gain special access to the ivory tower. Listen to me very sharp, your neo-sage tuesday nights nine to eleven new york times go to ivory tower radio dot com for details. 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055: Explaining Earned Income & Leading the Leaders: Motivate Your Board to Fundraise – Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio

Posted on August 22, 2011 by Nonprofit Radio

Tony’s guests this week:

Gene Takagi and Emily Chan of the Nonprofit & Exempt Organizations Law Group
Andy Robinson, consultant, and Kerry Kruckel, vice president for development and communications at WNET TV

Read and watch more on Tony’s blog: http://mpgadv.com

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Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio. We’re always talking about big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. I’m your aptly named host. I hope you were with me last week for got women donors from the fund-raising day conference in new york city last june, we talked about successful initiatives to expand your female donor base through targeted and appropriate cultivation, solicitation and stewardship. My guests were michelle walsh from the us fund for unicef and travis fraser from united way of new york city. Then it was linked in for prospect research. Our new regular contributor, maria simple, the prospect finder, was with me to share strategies for using linked in to find people and organizations who could be your board members, volunteers and donors. This week we are explaining earned income. Our legal contributors jean takagi and emily chan breakdown. What earned income is why it can be good. Why it can be bad. Why you need to understand it to protect your non-profit and keep it out of trouble. Then it will be leading the leader’s. Motivate your board to fundraise pre recorded at that fund-raising day conference in june consultant andy robinson and carry kruckel, vice president for development and communications at w any tv public tv in new york city reveal how to move your board to be the best fundraisers they khun b on tony’s, take two from my blog’s, say what’s on your mind. I learned a lesson about better communication from somebody who sat next to me on an airplane this past weekend, and that is tony’s. Take two at roughly thirty two minutes after the hour we’re live, tweeting today, use the hashtag non-profit radio to join the conversation on twitter. We take a break, and when we return, i’ll be joined by jean takagi and emily chan to explain earned income. Stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you suffering from aches and pains? Has traditional medicine let you down? Are you tired of taking toxic medications, then come to the double diamond wellness center and learn how our natural methods can help you to hell? Call us now at to one to seven to one eight, one eight three that’s to one to seven to one eight one eight three or find us on the web at www dot double diamond wellness dot com way. Look forward to serving you. Is your marriage in trouble? Are you considering divorce? Hello, i’m lawrence bloom, a family law attorney in new york and new jersey. No one is happier than the day their divorce is final. My firm can help you. We take the nasty out of the divorce process and make people happy. Police call a set to one, two, nine six four three five zero two for a free consultation. That’s lawrence h bloom two, one two, nine, six, four, three five zero two. We make people happy. Bilich hey, are you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com lively conversation top trends, sound advice, that’s, tony martignetti non-profit radio and i’m samantha cohen from the american civil liberties union. Welcome back to the show and thank you, samantha cohen. Jean takagi is principal of ennio neo non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the popular non-profit law blawg, which you’ll find at non-profit law blogged dot com. Emily chan is an attorney at neo-sage principal contributor to the non-profit law blawg. They’re both joining me to talk about earned income. Jean emily, welcome to the show. Thank you, tony. Pleasure to have you back. Jean earned income. It can be good. It can be bad. What are we talking about? Well, when we’re talking about her dinkum, we’re talking about income that said, made by non-profits that’s not true. Donations through grants through charging fees, usually for services. Good. Jean, let me let me interrupt you for a moment. Could you talk a little louder? Jane is better. Yeah, that is better if you can keep up that. Thanks. Great. So earned income is about making income from services or goods or other assets that the non-profit may have to sell. And it’s not just asking for donations or grant on it’s. A way to diversify a non-profits revenue sources. Which is a good thing. Especially in times when other revenue sources from donations and grants maybe somewhat precarious because of the economy ah, and it helped to create a self sustaining program of the non-profit another really good thing in a way for non-profits toe leverage, goodwill and other ass. Yep. Okay, so this is income aside from your fund-raising a cz you said sale of goods or services there, there there there’s a lot of earned income out there, isn’t there? Jane? Absolutely. I believe emily sighted in in a recent block post that about seventy percent of the income reported by non-profits is actually derived from earned income sources and not fund-raising okay, so the majority of the of the income all right, and emily this khun b, that could be a downsides and non-profits too, right? Yes, there are to mean reasons why non-profits should be aware of this concept of unrelated business income because first thurs attacks that the irs imposes on income coming from unrelated business activities and second for public charities there’s a requirement that the organization be operated primarily for exempt purposes. So if there is too much unrelated business activity happening, that can actually jeopardize the status. Of the organization. Okay. Jargon jail have to getyou for unrelated business income. Unrelated to what? Let’s, break this down. Yes, on that really? The key concept here. So within earned income there could be activities that are considered related to the exam purposes for which the organization was formed. And then there can also be activities that are considered unrelated to be exact purpose of the organization. Three irs defines this three part of a trader business that’s regularly carried on that’s not substantially related to furthering the except purpose. So really, it gives the definition for unrelated business and that’s kind of how we see which activities are considered related or whether they’re considered unrelated. Okay, so i think the key phrase there is substantially related. Gene what? How does the organization decide whether it’s earned income is or is not substantially related to its a charitable mission? It’s definitely a fact specific inquiry, tony. The general idea is that related business advances the organization’s charitable mission without considering where the profits go. It’s the activities himself that contribute, importantly toe advancing the mission. So even if there was no money generated from that activity, the charity would think that running that business is a good idea because it helps again further, the mission furthers, uh, the interests of the charitable class of individuals trying trying to help no unrelated business is one where the activities really have nothing to do with advancing the mission, but they’re carried out to generate revenues that will be used later to advance the mission and it’s that’s unrelated business that could be subject to the unrelated business income tax and that can get a charity in trouble if it’s engaged in a substantial amount of of that type of unrelated business activity. Okay? And you you draw and a n’importe distinction. I think, between the activity that creates this earned income and the place to where that money goes once it comes into the organization, we’re interested in the former, right? Exactly. So for this analysis, we don’t get her where the money goes. We’re just looking at the activities himself, okay? Yeah, go ahead. Sometimes very difficult to tell. Tony, for example, does selling clothes or other retail items really further a charitable mission. And, you know, on one side, you might say, well, it looks like a department store. It looks like a boutique, but it can for their mission if, like, goodwill, the operation of the business provides education, job training and work experience for disadvantaged class of individuals so it can be very fact specific, and we’d look at all the facts and circumstances to determine whether it’s related or not. Okay, and we have just a minute before the break. So so the activity that we’re interested in is the activity that generates the revenue the income let’s call keep put consistent generates income, and you’re comparing that to the tax exempt purpose, which would be the charitable mission. And that’s, how you’re determining whether the income is related or unrelated? Why am i explaining this? Right? That’s? Exactly. Right. Okay, cool. All right, so we’ll take a break, and when we come back, emily and jean will stay with us. We’ll talk a little bit more about how to determine where, where this related or versus unrelated income fits. And what happens if it turns out to be unrelated. Which sounds ominous. This is tony martignetti non-profit radio stay with us. E-giving attempting to getting thinking. You’re listening to the talking alternate network. Get him. Good. Duitz are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping conscious people. Be better business people. Looking to meet mr or mrs right, but still haven’t found the one. Want to make your current relationship as the building as possible? Then please tune in on mondays at ten a. M for love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen as a professional matchmaker, i’ve seen it all tune in as we discuss dating, relationships and more. Start your week off, right with love in the morning with marnie gal ilsen on talking alternative dot com. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Schnoll welcome back, we’re with jean takagi and emily chan explaining earned income. So, emily, maybe we could talk about a couple of other, maybe just fact situations where i guess the irs has determined or, you know, or some court has determined that that something was definitely related or unrelated income. Can you give another example, besides the one that gene had with the goodwill? Sure, another common example is with museums that generally have this charitable and educational purpose, but they also generate income through activities like a gift shop or having a cafe. So now we’re looking at the specific activities, and the irs doesn’t a kind of a broad stroke with activities it’s going to look at each activity and even within that activity kind of separate parts. So starting first with the gift shop, i’m emily, before you go further, can you can you speak a little louder? Force? Thank you better. Yeah, it is better, thank you within a museum, gift shop, museum, maybe selling items that i’m advanced charitable and educational purposes, for example, their reputations of the art that’s displayed on other items like that, but they also may be selling things like seven years to the city for which is located, which really is not going to be considered substantially related to charitable and educational purpose at the museum. In that case, the irs look att each item, maybe even and determine whether that’s related or unrelated, and so it can get quite nuanced if we done looked to the cafe. Now we’re talking about some of the activities where the irs also make exceptions. So some cafes in a museum may be considered related if they fall under the exception of being there for the convenience of the members and the patrons who come into the museum. But then, if we’re looking at a cafe that open to the public that list, they have the street entrance. Now it’s starting to look like a commercial cafe for-profit cafe, in which case we are arrest may come in and say, this is unrelated income, and now the museum has to be concerned about the two issues we raised earlier of pre-tax or possibly okay, that’s really interesting. So so within this category of earned income, some of it can be related and some of it unrelated, and then the non-profit has to. Account for those separately, like within the same cafe or the same museum store? Yes, on so this is. And another misconception that comes up is not an activity itself, such as running a cafe can actually generate both unrelated and relieving income. I’m so again, and she noted it’s just very fact specific and the na me but they’re not the museum when it reports it’s income in its annual information returned to the irs got toe actually list out every item that generates related versus unrelated business income so it would have to say, well, we we sold some t shirts and mugs of the city city souvenirs. This generated this much income that would be subject attacks. We thought this many art prints and books on art which would be related and not subject to that attack. Yes. Ok, so they do have to account separately for all these different categories of related versus unrelated. Wow. Okay, so is that so it’s fragmented? I mean, they’re the income is fragmented and that’s exactly what the irs calls that they call it the fragmentation rule. Okay. And let’s talk a little more. Jean about the consequence of of unrelated, it earned income. It’s, you and emily both mentioned the unrelated business income tax is that what gets applied to unrelated income? Exactly, and the whole idea be behind the unrelated business income tax was to address the problem of unfair competition with for-profit businesses on dh back in the fifties, when when the law was first created, there were a bunch of large non-profits like universities buying for-profit businesses and not paying taxes when running them within the non-profits can imagine that a small business it could be very upset if this big non-profit competitors came in, didn’t have to pay tax and had this huge competitive advantage over the small business owners, plus the additional advantage of not paying property tax, et cetera, the other the other advantages, aside from not paying tax on the income right, exactly, exactly right. And so you could see how they would be this unfair competition if non-profits weren’t tacked on this unrelated business income, and there is a one thousand dollar general thresholds first, one thousand dollars sort of escape, but beyond that, then it’s considered substantial enoughto require that the non-profit file a special information return or tax return. Reporting it’s, unrelated business income tax and the income tax is a tax on the normal corporate tax rate that a corporation would have to file a for-profit business would have to file, which is generally somewhere between fifteen and thirty five percent rate. Okay, and there’s an additional return to report this beyond the nine, ninety it’s not just a schedule in the nine, ninety that you that you ah, that you file correct it’s a separate return called the form nine, ninety and just like the nine, ninety, it has to be publicly disclosed. Okay, tea for taxable. Maybe. I don’t know. Okay? Or tea for tony, i think it’s the nine. Ninety tony for i prefer that. Okay, so who should be making this call mean, does this this is definitely require an attorney? If you have this earned income that you know, outside you’re fund-raising income, you’re getting money for goods and or services? Does this have to be an attorney making the call as to whether it’s related or unrelated her candid account into it? Or or who? Offgrid i think it’s a mixture of individuals that really can help make this decision. I’m in one respect there really is a business decision that has to be made by the organization and its leaders, even if the organization is generating related income. I mean there’s questions about whether there’s capacity the resource to support it and weather engaging in these activities might even lead to something like mission creep, where the organization starts to move further and further away from the reason it was organized. I’m certainly having the help of experts can be incredibly useful for an organization as kind of our discussion is highlighting there’s so many nuances to this rule, and unfortunately, the irs doesn’t give kind of a straightforward, bright line threshold to say where you’ve crossed that line and now have based on certain consequences, such as getting your tax exempt status provoked. So i certainly think there are many people who could be useful durney i’m with jean takagi principle of the non-profit and exempt organizations law group in san francisco. Emily chan is an attorney in that firm. So emily, you just mentioned possible revocation of your tax exempt status. What? We haven’t gone that far yet. What? What is that about? So public charities when they first formed one of the requirements under the internal revenue code is not this organisation be primarily operated for the exempt purpose? The issue with unrelated business income is now is there’s too much unrelated business activity? The irs is now saying you’re no longer being primarily operated for related purposes. Unfortunately, though the iris has not said definitively at what point can you say now? We were engaged in substantial on really business activity many people ask for, like percentages or income amounts, but unfortunately, the irs hasn’t spoken on that. Many practitioners fall on the twenty percent rule of thumb of, um, the amount of generated income coming in, but sometimes being office may reap are looking at the amount of resource is the organization is actually dedicating unrelated business activity as opposed to how much income is generating let’s stop for one moment. So on emily, i have to remind you speak a little bit louder, please. So twenty percent you’re saying some practitioners use a twenty percent. What are we taking? Twenty percent of if that’s your if that’s the test, you’re using twenty percent of gross income from unrelated businesses, okay? And and some practitioners think that is a threshold for for what, when you have to report it or or what it’s a good rule of thumb common amount that many practitioners fallen for when the organisation should be concerned now that they may be e-giving into too much unrelated business activity in which consequences could be oh, i see. Ok, so there isn’t a bright line. There isn’t a bright line as to how much is too much. Some practitioners use twenty percent. I don’t there’s some practitioners who think as long as it’s not above forty nine percent that you’re okay, yes, but certainly arrange again because the irs hasn’t said exactly at what point they believe that the line is drawn and partially because the analysis is still back specific, it may just be difficult for the irs to say definitively across the board this is the one amount where every organization must follow-up right, i can jump in turn, please, you know the irs is really looking at all. The resource is being used by the non-profit that’s directed at the unrelated business. So if it’s, using ninety percent of its resource, is not to engage in charitable activities, but to engage in the unrelated business and the unrelated business is only generating ten percent of the total gross income. Well, that’s still probably too much unrelated business activity devoting ninety percent. You know of your resources towards it on dh. That could lead to revocation of exempt status even below that twenty percent rule of thumb. Because we’re really not just looking at the income, really looking out at how the organization is using its research. So on the sort of congress sight, if it was using only five percent of its resources and it was generating eighty percent of the growth income of the non-profit that may be okay really generated so much income is just so little resources are going towards that, and then the other ninety five percent are all going towards furthering its charitable purposes directly. So it’s it’s really more than just the percentages, but anything over twenty percent, i think emily cause that is a good rule of particularly for account that he may not be looking at the activity level, but looking at the numbers and saying, hey, you better talk to an attorney when you get to that level of income from unrelated business. Okay, interesting. So i just want to recap a little where we’re talking about earned income, which is different than your fund-raising income, but so it’s a part of your gross revenue apart from fund-raising income discerned income and then earned income could be either related or unrelated. And we’re talking about now the consequences of having too much of the income unrelated. And jean, you had said the threshold for reporting is a thousand dollars. Is that right? That’s? Right. Ok, so if you have over a thousand dollars of unrelated income that’s, when you have to file the nine ninety tony form nine ninety tony form that that’s, right? And i should add, actually sort of define what growth income means without trying to get into jargon jail here. Okay. Income for this purpose is means the gross receipts, less the cost of good souls. So, for example, if we had t shirts and we sold two thousand dollars worth of t shirts and the t shirts costs us twelve hundred dollars, how then are gross? Income is only eight hundred dollars, so we wouldn’t have to file the nine. Nineteen. Okay. Okay. Ah, are there? Are there exceptions to the so what’s could be unrelated business income, gene? Yeah, they’re they’re exceptions to the whole area, unrelated business income tax and whether it would apply and the common exceptions that that we talk about are the three basic ones. When is the volunteer exception? So if the unrelated business is carried on by all volunteers, that will be an exception, and those activities will not generate income that’s subject to that unrelated business income tax. The other one emily mentioned is when activities unrelated business activities are carried on for the convenience of members or patients or students, and that might be like a hospital, gift store or bookstore in in a and the university or the example that emily brought up a cafe inside a museum that serving just the museum patrons. That’s called the convenience exception and is another exception where you don’t get charged with that unrelated business income tax. And the third exception that’s often cited is the donated good exceptions and that’s when you run an unrelated business like a thrift store. But all of the goods inside the thrift store were donated so similar to again the goodwill model. In some cases and and other thrift stores that are run by non-profits it’s a business and it’s unrelated but it’s all donated goods so they don’t have to pay the unrelated business income tax there’s one more modification we call separate from these three basic exceptions that everybody should know about and that’s the passive income modifications. So if you’re generating a lot of income from interest and dividends and red ilsen royalties but it’s passive, you’re not doing any activities, teo, get that that income it was just based on investments that will not be subject to the unrelated business income kapin but it gets so complicated that they’re exceptions on exceptions and exceptions, those exceptions? Yeah, no kidding, especially. I’m sure about the passive income when you start getting two rents and especially ranson and there’s prints on commercial property. Okay, let’s, not go that far. But i am interested in the volunteers that first exception volunteers doing all the work. So? So if you had any employees like in a thrift shop supervising volunteers, then then you wouldn’t qualify for that exception. Is that right, jean? It would be we would look at it from a substantiality points. So it’s substantially, all of the workers were volunteers. Then we’ll get that exception. You may still have a back person sort of supervising all the volunteers, and that could still work out. Ok, ok. And emily, the donated goods that does that exception have to be one hundred percent? Or is that also? Ah, substantiality test there for that exception, we’re looking again at it reality. So with many thrift shops, we see this happening. But certainly, if there’s a combination of exceptions to the unrelated business income roll and then there’s one or i think school that are considered unrelated. Then again, the fragmentation role, as we talked about earlier is going to be triggered on the organization is going to need thio mark each category. Make sure it accounts for that. Okay? Fragmentation, substantiality unrelated business income in the nine ninety tony form jean is there anything we want to wrap up with? We have just a minute left. Anything we haven’t said about earned income that you think small and midsize non-profits should know well, apart from the whole related and unrelated part, that big driving force behind designing to engage and earned income ventures is deciding whether you really got the capacity to do it, and it makes sense it’s compatible with your mission. You’ve got the right assets that are worth selling probably want to pick the low hanging fruit first do stuff that you’re already good at because you don’t want to surprise your staff with managing a totally unknown entity and unknown venture on distracting them from from doing the mission and want to get involved too. As he plan about that, you need to know the laws and risks involved. Whether you’re selling goods, maybe sales tax are involved, you may have new employment issues and intellectual property issues, social media issues, licenses, permits, insurance and all of those things. So getting some experts to help you making sure you have the capacity to do it ahead of time. Those those are my best tips for you jean takagi and emily chan gene is a principle of neo the non-profit exempt organizations law group in san francisco. He edits the non-profit non-profit law blogged at non-profit law blogged dot com emily chan is an attorney at neo-sage principal contributor to that blogged emily gene, thank you very much for being on, we look forward to hearing talking to you again next month. We look forward to it as well, tony. Thank you, real pleasure. Thank you. We take a break, and after the break, tony’s take two and then leading the leader’s motivate your board to fundraise, so stay with me. Dafs you’re listening to the talking alternative network. Are you feeling overwhelmed in the current chaos of our changing times? A deeper understanding of authentic astrology can uncover solutions in every area of life. After all, metaphysics is just quantum physics politically expressed. I am montgomery taylor, and i offer lectures, seminars and private consultations. For more information, contact me at monte m o nt y at r l j media. Dot com are you concerned about the future of your business for career? Would you like it all to just be better? Well, the way to do that is to better communication, and the best way to do that is training from the team at improving communications. This is larry sharp, host of the ivory tower radio program and director at improving communications. Does your office needs better leadership, customer service sales, or maybe better writing, are speaking skills. Could they be better at dealing with confrontation conflicts, touchy subjects all are covered here at improving communications. If you’re in the new york city area, stop by one of our public classes, or get your human resource is in touch with us. Website is improving communications, dot com, that’s, improving communications, dot com, improve your professional environment, be more effective, be happier, and make more money improving communications, that’s the answer. Hey, all you crazy listeners looking to boost your business? Why not advertise on talking alternative with very reasonable rates? Interested simply email at info at talking alternative dot com. I’m leslie goldman with the us fund for unicef, and i’m casey rodder with us fun for unison. You’re listening to tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent. My block this week is, say, what’s on your mind and that’s the topic of tony’s take two on an airplane just this past weekend from chicago to new york. I was with a girl who was just very forward about saying things that that a lot of us would filter. So there was there was she’s, twenty four years old, elisa, and it was clearly, you know, some disorder that just made her say what was on her mind just as i entered the just entering the row to sit down, she asked me what’s your name, how old are you? Are you married? So, you know, that’s got me thinking, you know, she was very charming and sweet and at the same time, you know, unashamed, um and it just got me thinking, you know, they’re there we censor ourselves a lot, and we suppress things that maybe sometimes appropriately suppressed i mean, we can’t all be saying all the things we’re thinking with we’d all be without jobs without friends, but some things i think way sensor maybe should be said and and ah, not avoided just because they might be very sweet or, you know, unmanly. If you’re a guy or maybe because they might be, um, you know, a sign of weakness, so i just raised my consciousness about censoring myself and saying more things that i’m thinking and letting people be more aware of what my thoughts are in the right circumstances. And so i thought that might be a benefit to you because so much of our work is relationships in our inn. Non-profits so that’s say what’s on your mind, it’s on my block, which is that m p g a d v dot com and that is tony’s take two for friday, august nineteenth. We’re now going to move to leading the leader’s motivate your board to fundraise. This was pre recorded at fund-raising day in new york city this past june, and here is that interview. Welcome to tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven were in new york city times square at the marriott marquis, and i’m joined now by andy robinson and carry kruckel andy is principal of andy robinson consulting. Carrie kruckel is vice president for development and communications. Wnt channel thirteen here in new york city. Welcome both of you. Thank you. It’s pleasure beings for having us. Our pleasure. Your seminar topic is leading the leaders how to motivate your board to cultivate major gift. I’ll tell you, we’ve done about half a dozen interviews today, and the board has probably come up in four or so of those of those six so far, but now critical the board’s role in fund-raising and how do you want to start the start? The topic? What? What? What is their responsibility? Well, where i would start this topic is i’d say we have to define fund-raising so it’s not just asking for money. It is the whole cycle of behavior. It’s identifying prospects, it’s cultivating it’s asking it’s, thanking it’s, recognizing its involving and so all that stuff. And if we define fund-raising is asking for money. There are a certain number of people, including a certain number of board members who will never get there. Okay. On the other hand, if we define fund-raising as this larger piece of work that we all have to do, then i would argue pretty strenuously they that there’s a place for everybody in that cycle, even the board members who hate to ask for money. There’s just the old fund-raising or something they can do? Absolutely there friendraising there. Friendraising yeah, we call it friendraising fund-raising atar side, which is the same thing. And it’s absolutely critical because actually, my feeling is that you don’t want every boardmember asking for money. Let’s, let’s try to go through a little life cycle of a boardmember how do we make sure we recruit board members who want to participate in this in his willingly? So, andy out recognizing that there may always be some that will will object strenuously and never maybe we’ll get to the difficult cases, maybe, but in the light in the opening lifecycle, how do we how do we recruit correctly? Andy? Well, the first thing is transparency mean, let people know when they’re joining your board that this is one of the expectations and i’m a believer and job descriptions, i think you specify what expected. Boardmember and i think the job description has to be reciprocal, meaning we’re gonna expect you to raise money on one side on the other side, we’re going to train you how to do it, we’re going to support you or give you some options and how you participate. Oh, so there actually is organization responsibility. It’s reciprocal? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, where a lot of lorts fail and be interested to hear your take on this carry. A lot of boards fail is they bring people on and they say, go raise money and they kick him in the butt and they supposed about the door do it there’s not training, but on the morning there’s not support. I mean, there’s, this sort of fantasy that they’re all they all come in as skilled and willing fundraisers. And that is rare. Carrie, how about you? For the recruiting side on the recruiting side were very strategic. And w n e t we have a committee that’s, just a people. So of my board of forty, only eight are formally asked by the chairman to be active solicitors for deb unity. And they partner with me. I trained them on. We have a whole business plan that they stick, teo, that we establish the beginning of the year. Now, just as important to that group a zach repairs to the organization is all trustees do. We asked him to give when they joined the board, we have a give and get yes expectation it’s very clear it’s not give or get you have to give not all of our trustees khun give it the same level, but they all have the ability to additionally get one of the criteria for recruiting a boardmember sir, is what is the network that they’re in what’s their orbit in sphere of influence and that’s we played too. We played to that strength rather than to a place that they may not be familiar. So that’s really key. So everybody comes in with a certain capacity said, but only a handful of people work with me on act, actually soliciting gifts, large gifts, the rest friendraising yeah, just once just one fifth of your board, but the andes to the point that andy made there is a role for everybody, so rule for only one fifth of your board is actively soliciting, right? But i would say another two to three fifths of our board are actively friendraising calling me all the time with great leads, contacts, ideas, and then the development committee is a very tight, working operation that, you know, we activate when we’re ready yeah, god, those eight people self selected or you hand picking the ones you want to turn into solicitor’s i’m in the process of handpicking because i just joined the organisation fifteen months ago, so i inherited a wonderful development committee, but some on that committee still are not comfortable soliciting. They’re more comfortable, say, leading a major gala that raises three million for the organization so that’s that’s significant in a different way, but know, as i handpick in this new new year, we have two new co chairs and they they go about fund-raising from a different very different points of view. One is a seven figure donor and annual basis, and one is a six figure donor, and so we tackle it different ways. One is very entrepreneurial and, you know, a tremendous seller, great talker, the other one is very focused wants to close five gifts at a million or more. So you create this this dynamic of what’s a business plan for each of them that kind of gets the whole committee where they want, and that also suggests the support that the organization has to provide in terms of a business plan, you’re talking about a business. Plan for each of them that’s i’m sure developed in collaboration with them, but your staffing that plan on dh you’re proposing the plan to them, right? Staffing that committee is probably fifty to sixty percent of my work. It’s a big part of my job and you say an interesting word, it’s, a business fund-raising is totally a business, and until trustees see how that business is an operation, they don’t really trust the process. I kind of think they might be asked out there on a whim, asking for money, but there are three major categories of running a very solid development shop, whether your staff of three or staff of seventy like we are, but you have to have those principles in place and regularly talk about them so that the trustees feel like there was a very strong foundation that’s pushing this for them and supporting them and support them now. And he talked earlier about proper training of a new boardmember what? What is training look like wnt for a new boardmember around fund-raising around fund-raising? Yeah, um, it’s pretty informal. I mean, we have formal orientation for all of our board members when they join and then every year all the board members get a mini kind of refresher, but when it comes to fund-raising, we sit down and we establish our goals and objectives together, i usually come in with a set of recommendations that i review with the chair and the co chair, but i really trained them as they get ready and go out. I equip them with basically the case for support, so anytime they’re out socially or if they’re setting that i’ve set them up for they know the elevator pitch, but until they’re actually going out on a call, i don’t train them until they’re going on a call. So that’s basically a really sell that briefing, and then you know, half an hour on the phone or sit down where we kind of go through that solicitation. Every solicitation is different, all right? But i don’t formally trained them. I don’t bring in outside consultants to train them. I’ve been doing this for twenty two years. Why generally, you know i might this year will be my first let’s see will be my second year kicking off the committee for the fall can i probably will have three new committee members, so i’ll probably take forty five minutes to kind of go through the rules of the game and how they’re set up tio have a great experience and a win win for the organisation, right? And then i’ll do one on one training and what kind of feedback do you like to see from a boardmember after they’ve been in the kind of meeting that carries talking about preparing them for afterwards, how do they feed back what they’ve learned in that meeting to the organization? Yeah, it’s a good question. First of all, the classic way we do this, i don’t know if this is true it w n e t the classic way we do this, we go out hairs, it’s a boardmember with a staff member and sometimes boardmember zehr skilled enough to go out alone and do asks and that’s fabulous, but i think that’s the exception rather than the rule. So usually what this looks like is thie carries of the world are sitting down with the boardmember after the meeting’s over, and sometimes you’re doing this in the car, you know, when you’re sitting in somebody’s driveway and what did? We learn how excited is this person? Are there other next steps that we need to take who’s goingto leave who’s going to take that next step? Who’s going to lead on that? How do we follow up with that person? It’s not a bad idea to produce some sort of scratchy where you actually have a standard set of questions you’re asking each other to debrief the meeting. So you actually have something you can then put in the database and use that to manage the relationship? What do you like to see andy in terms of the other relationship? Sorry, the other board dishpan ce abilities, aside from soliciting let’s say we have boardmember is that our? We’ve agreed, mutually, either i don’t solicit or you’re not comfortable listening, and we understand it. What are the other roles? Well, this could be an entire phone call baizman entire interview unto itself, but just off the top of my head, one is identifying prospects, even if they’re not willing to approach those people individually. Another one is creating opportunities to educate people, so if you’re at a radio station, you could bring him in and give mature if you’re a land trust you could take him out on a hike. If you’re working with children, you could bring them in to see the kids doing what they’re doing. It’s a cultivation piece on the back end? I’m a great believer in boardmember is picking up the phone and thanking donors, even people they don’t know and saying, hi, my name is andy robinson, i’m a volunteer boardmember with name of organization, i am not calling this evening to ask you for money, pause, you know, they collapsed on the other end of the phone, right? I’m just calling to say thank you, and these phone calls are revelatory because a lot of board members expect they’re going to get grief and people. Wow, i love your organization is so great it’s a privilege to give and it’s a really good way to ease people into fund-raising without the ask part that’s just half a dozen things they could do what i liked about that that last ideas having boardmember calls that ghetto learned the exuberance that’s out there, even if they’re calling fifty dollar donors, you could have boardmember calling fifty or hundred dollar don’t love that, yeah, i would love that. And then they learned that. There’s, this, this is base of support. It doesn’t only exist among the six and seven figure donors, and the variation on this and i’ve done this several times is tohave. Donors come to a board meeting and do a little donorsearch. Because a lot of board members think donors air from mars don’t know when they’re different species. And actually, they’re just like everybody else. Except they love your organization more than most people know. Talking alternative radio twenty four hours a day. Are you stuck in your business or career trying to take your business to the next level, and it keeps hitting a wall? This is sam liebowitz, the conscious consultant. I will help you get to the root cause of your abundance issues and help move you forward in your life. Call me now and let’s. Create the future you dream of. Two, one, two, seven, two, one, eight, one, eight, three, that’s to one to seven to one, eight one eight three. The conscious consultant helping hunters. People be better business people. Buy-in this is tony martignetti aptly named host of tony martignetti non-profit radio big non-profit ideas for the other ninety five percent technology fund-raising compliance, social media, small and medium non-profits have needs in all these areas. My guests are expert in all these areas and mohr. 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And i’m travis frazier from united way of new york city, and i’m michelle walls from the us fund for unicef. No. Durney carrie, how are how are you using boardmember sze who the ones that are not soliciting the other, the other four fifth what are some ways that they are directly involved in fund-raising they are every board member’s assigned to a committee wnt so we have seven committees, so they’re all engaged in some aspect of the mission of the non-profit my job, as i see it is the chief fundraiser is, too connect the fund-raising relevance to other parts of the opposition they may be working on, so if they’re working on programing, or if they’re working on investments or finance is what is the value of that work to the role we do and fund-raising so making the connections is really in part because a cz you pointed out they all have thinking about fund-raising they may not all be actively engaged, so the challenge is is how do you how are they experiencing the kind of the mission in a way that they’re feeling connected that keeps them kind of, in a sense, cultivated as prospects themselves and that’s a really big challenge? Because if you’re on the audit committee, that is not really a very inspiring everybody wanted wnt everybody want to be on the education committee because that’s where the programs that work with kids, mostly and that’s what they want to do because that’s exciting, but there are other fiduciary responsibilities, so it’s a challenge? So what we do is the ceo, the chairman, and i actually spent a lot of one on one time with our trustees, we take them out to lunch, we try to meet every trustee twice a year, just one on one intimately because board meetings, you really can’t connect on an intimate level. You really getting business done that’s a really valuable idea, i think connecting the leadership with the ceo with the with the boardmember include maintaining that relationship, you created friendship and trust there, but then we also i’m a big believer in events as a way to keep the trustees kind of socially connected. They don’t have to come to all the events, but they come to one or two a year in the months that you’re not doing boardmember ings w n e t we do a lot of screenings for new shows that we’re airing and that’s when we have trustees president, we give him a role, we ask himto welcome the guests, we ask him to go meet three or four people, so they always have a role in friendraising on the external side when they’re not doing the work of the board. I’m with carrie kruckel, vice president for development and communications, wnt thirteen and i see, um and anne robinson principle of anne robinson consulting their topic at fund-raising day two thousand eleven is leading the leaders how to motivate your board to cultivate major gifts, and this is tony martignetti non-profit coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven in new york city. Andy, what do you like to see in terms of the relations, the working relationship that carry started tow talk about between the ceo and the board around? Fund-raising well, i think the first thing is that there are ceos, executive directors who embraced fund-raising get it who are excited about it, and there are those who don’t and i have been development staff, it organizations where we had one and where we’ve had the other and this was was work is a whole lot easier if the ceo gets it and embraces it and understands it. So i’m going to start with the assumption you have one of those if you do the answer, the question, i think, is to have shared expectations that air clear about who’s going to do what and to find ways to engage people at the board level who will lead on this and the way i think about this and someone taught me this term is to have a successful fund-raising board, you need someone who is the spark plugs on the board when it comes to fund-raising because usually the way this works is staff are saying to the board, you need to raise money, you need raise money, we need help, and this is basically going to your supervisors and saying to them, you’re not doing your job well, which is tricky, she’s ill should that sparkplug be the chair of the development committee? Well, that works for me, but i’m less about the title, and i’m more about the personality, the attitude i mean, if you don’t like sparkplug, we can work with the word coach, we can work with the word cheerleader. I like the word enforcer, okay, but one spark plug, good to spark plugs. Better threespot plugs you have a really good fund-raising board, and if you can invest this person with a title like chair of the development committee that’s great, but i have seen it work really well when the chair of the development committee was more about the details and logistics, but they weren’t the one who did training and inspiring and enforcing. So i’m good either way, but somebody at a board level has to has to be that person, and the role of the ceo is to make sure you have that person to support them and doing that, make sure that they can do their job at a peer to peer level on the board. Okay, carry it sounded like you had something to say around around that relation that ceo board relationship, i would add that your board chair and your president, ceo and fundraiser have to compliment each other, so if you know what you have going into the mix and you don’t have the right balance of strengths, then you need to recruit very actively. Having a strong ceo who likes to solicit as well as the chairman can often be very problematic if they’re both looking for, you know, the chance to close on a gift and you have a donor who’s got two very aggressive people at the table that’s pretty tough, so i, like i’ve always looked to find a nice balance if the current ceo i work for is somebody who’s ah, wonderful articulator, but not necessarily was comfortable with making the ask or the clothes i’m looking for a chairman or a trustee to support him. Who has that complement the personality i generally find they’re just going backto. One point is, is that it’s really the rule the fundraiser to fill that gap? Knowing what your strength or as a professional fundraiser and playing those up, i probably can wear twenty different hats a w entity at any given time to support the trustee or their ceo or the chairman in an ask or a cultivation, because i’d have so much experience and see where the gap is in terms of how they’re going to relate to a potential donor. And i think that’s a number something non-profits can’t overlook is hiring the right fundraiser who has that kind of experience and working in a lot of different settings. On gonna frame this slightly differently. And i think this is complimentary. Really? Good development directors are good at getting other people to ask for money. Yeah, and, you know, doing it themselves? Absolutely. But the good ones are empowers. And trainers and supporters and that’s another way of what you just said. It’s a good point. Can i raise a second point, please? We’re talking, quote unquote. Major gifts and carry rolled out the six figure gift in the seven figure gift. And there are plenty people listening to this who will find those numbers to be frightening. Yeah, a thousand dollars is some organizations of thousand buckle is a major gift. The principles are the same. It’s. Not about the amount of money. It’s people who we consider major donor prospects, they get treated differently. They get more attention, we get more face time with, and we’re trying to find a way to engage their interests in a personal way. And that is really irrelevant about the amount of money we’re talking about. Okay. Excellent point. Thank you. And i agree. It’s. Very good. Carrie. What do you like to see around the the organization’s support of board? Members who are who are actively engaged in fund-raising what what kind of role is the organization playing toe to support those boards? Boardmember well, what i love to see that i don’t see much is an entire organization that understands the rule of the board and threw their department say their area of expertise, whether it’s, a on the mission delivery side or the education cider, the outreach side is that the leaders of those departments are justice. Capel is a fundraiser and communicating the progress of the mission of the non-profit to that board tends to fall into the lap of the fundraiser of the chief fund-raising almost every time you’re managing all aspects of the board, so but that’s, what i like to see, even an organization that doesn’t have it is a readiness and an understanding that we all are cultivating our board on the ceo or i’m the vice president, this department, i have a role in that, so i do spend time with my colleagues training, preparing them, helping them understand their role each year in terms of how they would interface with their committees that they’re managing, but i think that’s a really key part because it can’t just fall in the hands of the chief fundraiser at any size organization because it’s, very time consuming fund-raising really has to be out there also asking for gifts of other donors, not just working with the trustee’s. It was kind of building that pipeline, and so if you’re internally managing all components of the board, it’s very challenging, so i look for that but it’s really hard for non-profits to achieve that, you know, andy would have about thirty seconds left. What do you like to see you? So you have to be a little brief in terms of the organization supporting its member, its board members well, love, um, show appreciation, even if they don’t do absolutely everything you want them to do, reinforce anything that’s a positive behavior in this direction because these people are volunteers, they’re doing this on their own time with their own love, and we need to show appreciation even if they don’t do it perfectly if they do it pretty good. That’s a step forward, so i would honor that. Andy robinson is principal of andy robinson consulting carry kruckel is vice president for development and communications. W n e t thirteen there seminar topic is leading the leaders how to motivate your board to cultivate major gifts and this is tony martignetti non-profit radio coverage of fund-raising day two thousand eleven in new york city in times square. Carrie andy, thank you very much for being guests. It was a real pleasure. Thank you, thank you for having us. That was my pre recorded interview from this past june the fund-raising day new york conference next week. Google plus for your non-profit our tech contributor and the editor of non-profit technology news, scott koegler is with me to size up the newest big splash in social networking and also break down the silos, integrating communications, pr and fund-raising for better results from the fund-raising day conference in june, my guest will be meghan galbraith, managing director at changing our world for this week. I want to thank jean takagi and emily chan of the non-profit exempt organizations law firm and andy robinson and carry kruckel as well as the organizer’s of fund-raising day two thousand eleven for their hospitality from week to week, you can keep up with what’s coming up. Sign up for our insider. Email alerts on the facebook page. While you’re there like us and become a fan of the show, you know where facebook is. Just go to tony martignetti non-profit radio. When you’re in there, you can listen live or you can listen. Archive. The archive is at itunes. 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